A (2:14)

Yeah.

B (2:14)

You know, versus, like, I'm going to do the thing that Dave Ramsey would be like, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. Because it might pay off. Like, how do you, how do you navigate those. Those things? Like, not Being traditionally good with money but faring better in the end, I.

A (2:29)

Would say it's probably never. It. It is never objectively never better to prioritize money over mental health, good energy, you know, higher levels of fulfillment, meaning happiness, you know, all the other things that make life worth living in both respects. So what I mean by that is that, for instance, just to use our car as an example. So we have historically just been very frugal when it comes to our finances, especially when it comes to larger purchases. And we drove two cars into the ground, and we still have one of them because it's sort of our secondary vehicle now, and we'll probably replace it here in the next like, six, eight months or something like that. But it has 260,000mil. The other day it just didn't start.

B (3:22)

Which in a Toyota is like 20,000.

A (3:24)

Yeah, yeah. So, like, I know it'll probably go another like 50, 80,000 miles, but like I said the other day, it just didn't start one. Like, it eventually did, like five, ten minutes afterwards. But Jackie was at. At our store at. At Ever Bull and called and he was like, hey, the truck's not starting. And I was not in a position to like, go pick her up immediately. And I was like, oh, well, that. I guess I got to figure out a way to get over there. And then she text me back like three or four minutes later, like, it's all good now. And then our other car was having a bunch of transmission problem. We. It was in the shop all the time, and we were having to spend much money on it. And it was like, so this is what I mean by sacrificing mental health for the purpose of money. Because in my mind, I was like, I'm not going to make a poor financial decision and. And go buy the car that I want to buy. I'm just going to go buy another crappy car and pay cash and just keep driving that one. And then it was sort of a realization. It was like, we can afford to buy a car that. And we can afford to buy the car that we really want to buy. Why do I continue to push this off? And it was sort of this, like, almost. It was almost like I was wearing this badge of honor that I was still driving really crappy cars, even though I could afford to not do that. And it was almost affecting mental health in the other way because, like, that. That's again, another reason that why the show exists. Because it's like, you don't want to wait till you're 72 to drive your dream car because it's not as fun to drive when you're 72 as it is to drive when you're 41. But you also can't sacrifice your future for your present. That's not a bad. That's not a good decision either. So if we would have made the decision to go buy our dream car eight years ago and we were in a financial pinch, and it would have been a, like, difficult thing to try to make that payment or something like that, like, that also wouldn't have been a good move. You know what I mean? So, like, you can. You can sacrifice mental health for money on both ends of the spectrum, whether you're following the Ramsey plan or you're just spending money faster than you're making it. So you are. If you're. If you're looking for, you know, living a healthy, good, active life now without sacrificing your future, then that's why I say the only solution to that is going and making more money. Because you want to be able to do both of those things the way, you know, the way that you want to do them. So you have to be able to live a version of life that you are stoked to live now while also thinking about your future self and not screwing that person in the future. But if you're doing it so much and only ever thinking about your future self, it sort of takes away the fun of living life now. And it's like, well, you know, we're not going to take that vacation. We're not going to go to Europe because we. We. We can't technically, you know, afford it. We can't. We can't pay cash for the flights. So we're not going to Europe next summer with our kids when they're 13 and 14.

B (6:07)

And unfortunately, sometimes to visit people, you know and care about, you have to go to Europe now.

A (6:11)

Yeah, now that's a.

B (6:13)

That's a whole nother.

A (6:13)

That's a whole nother thing. But anyway. Yeah. So, you know, like, that's sort of. My point is, like, you can. You can play both games. Wrong.

B (6:23)

Yeah.

A (6:23)

You know what I mean?

B (6:24)

Like, you just said, the. The, like, driving crappy car becomes like a status symbol of like, well, look, I'm doing that. It's kind of like the. It's kind of like the hardcore Ramsayites that are like, you know, the only time you should see the inside of a restaurant is if you're eating in it. And like, we're working beans for the last, like, six Months. Yeah. And it's like. It's like maybe once in a while, your kids can eat something other than rice and beans.

A (6:51)

Yeah.

B (6:51)

And you pay off the dent a week later.

A (6:54)

Yeah.

B (6:54)

You know, like, it's not like. Like there is some balance there because, like, it's the example that you gave many moons ago on the show. But it's like. It's like the old guy that buys his dream car at, like, 70 and then can't get out of it.

A (7:05)

Right.

B (7:06)

Which I still think. I keep thinking about the idea because he drove it for, like. I forget what the guy said. Like, a couple. Like a couple hours.

A (7:12)

Yeah.

B (7:12)

And I just keep thinking, like, he's like, I can't get out. I'm just gonna keep looping till I out of gas. And I just think that is just so funny.

A (7:20)

I think it had, like, 2,000 miles on it or something when he finally decided to trade it in and get a bigger vehicle. But this. This is a real story. Yeah. This was not just an illustration that we were. That we were using. This was like, when I went to buy my car, the. The. The finance manager had been working there for, like, 30 years, was telling us about his dream car, which was a. A Porsche 911, and that this other guy had bought. It's sitting at one of their other dealerships right now, because this other guy traded this car in. He waited his whole life to go get this Porsche 911, and he bought it in his late 60s, early 70s, and he literally had trouble getting out of the car because it was so low to the ground and just difficult to get in and out of. So he ended up trading it in with 2000 miles to go get, like, some sort of, like, crossover SUV or something like that. It's like, that's sort of. My point is, like, you can postpone. Like, you can delay the gratification, which is something that you should do, because all successful people delay gratification. And it's definitely something that is. It's. It's a worthwhile endeavor to do that. That more often. But if you do it too much, then it's like, well, what. What happens? You get cancer when you're 50 and, you know, you. You've. You've saved. You've put away all this money, and then you realize that you only have a year and a half left in your life. And in, like. What was that? You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't plan for everything. It's impossible to plan for everything. So if you're always and only constantly delaying gratification for hope that someday in the future you're just going to be able to enjoy everything that you've done built. It's like, well, you're sac, you're, you're, you're placing a very big bet on a couple of things. First off that you're going to live that long. Secondly, that you're going to be super healthy, super active and able to do all the stuff that you want to do when you reach that age and that nothing happens in the meantime to subtract money from that account to where you can't actually do the thing that you wanted to do. So maybe it might have been a good idea to like put the flights to Europe on a credit card this time and pay them off over the next six months after, you know, you get paid your Christmas bonus so that you can make sure that you get to go to Europe with your kids when they're actually kids and not when they're in their 30s and you're trying to build this whole logistical nightmare of getting them to get time off of work and they gotta bring their kids and you know what I mean? Like you, you still have to find time. Like what do we have the money for? You know what I mean? Like, money by itself is useless. Money is only useful for the things that you exchange it for. So figure out the things that are worth exchanging it for and build a plan to be able to go get those things. Like I said. Maybe it means that you just delay the trip to Europe 1 summ. Or maybe it means that you put it on a credit card because this is the only summer that is, you're really going to be able to make it work for. And I don't think, I just don't think that you're going to be that worried about it when you wake up in Italy and see the happiness on your kids faces while you go get gelato for the third time that day. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't. You got it. You got to be, you got to be able to play both games. It's never a good idea, like I said, to sacrifice mental health on either side of that equation because then you have the other people who are just like yolo, you know what I mean? Like we only, we only get one shot at this thing and then their $890,000 in debt and they, then they're, then they have to deal with the stress of not being able to pay their bills and getting kicked out of their house. And moving in with, like, a friend in a bad part of town with their family. You know what I mean? Like, there's. There's. There's extremes on both sides. And, like, most things, typically, you're going to find me somewhere in the middle. And that's. That's how I've, like, I've. I've changed my mind about that, especially after getting this car, because, like, we love it. And, like, I actually like driving that car, and I like taking my family in that car. I feel good about myself. I feel more, like, confident even when I'm in that car compared to driving, like, my car that made a bunch of noise and had 200,000 miles on it that we finally sold. You know what I mean? It's like, why did. Why did I wait so long to do that? Like you said, it's almost just. It's almost like seeking status with the opposite direction in mind, rather than just doing the thing that I want to do and figuring out a way to make it work.

B (11:12)

Yeah. You know, I love that you prefaced your early example with no. This is a true story. A car salesman told it to me. He's like. He's like, how do I build this idea that he should buy this car?

A (11:23)

How do I create a sense of urgency?

B (11:24)

Dude, if you wait longer, you'll be like this other guy that used to want this car.

A (11:28)

Well, to be fair, I'd already made the decision to buy the car. That was the finance manager.

B (11:32)

Yeah, but I just thought it was funny. It's a true story. The car salesman.

A (11:37)

Trust me, if anybody's trustworthy.

B (11:42)

Okay, so let me ask you this. What do you think about. I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I'm going to ask it. But, you know, obviously there can be, like, the traditional financial advice where it's like, save, save, save, save, save. But the other thing that also gets thrown out all the time is like, give, give, give, give, give. And I know, like, I'm sure you were the same as me growing up. You would get some money, and it was like, this goes to the church, this goes to others, and this goes for you, you know, like. Or some variation of that thing. And I think some of that, maybe not to the. Maybe not to the church per se, but, like. But I think allotting a certain amount to give to somebody, allotting some for yourself, you know, however you want to break that down. What do you think, though, when people are, like, still in the process of getting to a place where, like, they're they're never really worried about money. Like, they're still in that. Like, they may not be struggling, but they're in that spot where they're going like, you know, my needs are met. I'm trying to get to that next level. When do you think the charity component should come into play? Should you wait till you're established and you can give freely and not think about it? Should it be when it's a little tight and it makes you feel that you're giving something? Like, when do you think people should incorporate that in where it's not damaging them?

A (13:00)

Yeah, I think you should always do it. If it's something that's meaningful to you, you should do it regardless of if you have a bunch of extra money. You don't have a bunch of extra money. Because the thing is, the logic is sound. That's like, well, I want to wait till I'm established and I'll do it. But if you don't build the habits when you have almost no money, you're probably not going to do it when you have some money. So it does not mean that you have to you. That you have to donate your rent money to some nonprofit or something like that. It just means that, like, give where you can, when you can. If it's five bucks here, if it's, you know, ten bucks there, like, if it's just a little bit of an extra tip when you're at a restaurant because you like this waiter that you go to, and it's a local spot that, you know, you go to all the time and you. And you have a good experience, they take care of you and, you know, give them a little extra money. Like, that's, that's why the, The. The giving component, to me, I think, has just been skewed because of organizations that are nonprofits. Churches obviously, being a massive part of that, but also a lot. There's a lot of corruption in regular nonprofits that are not churches either. And I just, I don't. I don't find, like, you do not have to be the person that donates to whatever the Special Olympics or St. Jude's Children's Hospital. A percentage single one.

B (14:14)

Can you see that as a statement.

A (14:15)

Into the camera, don't donate? No, I. I just. I just. I'm like, you don't.

B (14:19)

Yeah.

A (14:20)

You don't have to turn it into this, like, rule where it's like a rigid. Well, 10. 10% of all. Everything I ever make goes to this thing, or 20% or 5%. It's just like when you feel. When you feel an urge to give.

B (14:33)

You were going to say led.

A (14:34)

I actually was not. But. But yes, when you feel led. When you feel an urge to give, give and give what you can give. But, you know, when. When we were growing up, it was more like it was the sacrifice that mattered. So it was like it was.

B (14:48)

It better hurt it.

A (14:49)

And it did. Like, I bro. My. I'm sure I have it somewhere, but obviously, like, our church gave us the. Our giving statements at the end of every year for, like, tax purposes and stuff. And I was like, 18, 17. Like, I did not have that much money. I want to say I gave close to, like, $10,000 to the church, which was. I probably made, like, $13,000.

B (15:10)

If you had put that into the.

A (15:13)

Yeah, exactly. If I would have put that into almost anything else, I would still have it or at least have something to show for it. But, you know, at the time, I gave it a hold to the church, but, you know, that's neither here nor there. I'm glad I figured it out with that money with my high school money instead of my adult money. But, yeah, I. For the giving thing, it's like, I find a lot of. I personally find a lot of, like, fulfillment and satisfaction from being able to give money to things or to people or to causes or whatever, but I don't do it because. Because I feel like that would make me a bad person if I don't do it. I do it when I feel an urge to do it, and I give as generously as I can in that particular thing. It's like somebody hit me up the other day saying it was a friend of mine that I trusted who sent me a GoFundMe, a GoFundMe link to a friend of his that was just having a really, really hard time, and my friend had already given money to. It was just like, look, have anything. You know what I mean? I was just like, sure, you know, send some money over to that person, because it's somebody that I trust, and I know the money's going to this person, and somebody I trust deeply is telling me that this person genuinely needs the help right now. Cool. You know, we'll. We'll do that. But I'm not. I'm not one of those people. It's like, yeah, 10% of everything you make goes to this cause or that cause. And if you don't do that, then the universe isn't going to bless you and. And give you what you want in life because you're Being too stingy or whatever. It's like, nah. Typically, I find if people are trying to put that type of pressure on me to give, they typically do not have a. Like, they are going to benefit in some way from doing that. So I just am always cautious about that.

B (16:55)

Yeah. And you don't have to give to an organization.

A (16:58)

Exactly.

B (16:58)

You don't need a charitable donation receipt.

A (17:00)

Correct. Yeah. You don't. You don't have. It does not have to be something that's officially on your taxes in order for it to be contributing to something or someone.

B (17:07)

I do feel like tips is like, I feel always the best about.

A (17:11)

Absolutely.

B (17:12)

Because I feel like it's a. Directly. Like it's going to that person.

A (17:16)

Yeah.

B (17:17)

And it's directly because, like, there's something about them that's like, they created a.

A (17:22)

Positive experience for me or for my family and to some degree. And I feel like helping them out.

B (17:29)

Yeah.

A (17:29)

You know what I mean? So, not to mention, this is just like the side effect of that happening is that people tend to treat you better when you come back. You know what I mean? Like, they. They are. They greet you with a bigger smile on their face. Or as you said, priority seating.

B (17:44)

You tip at the beginning, you're going to be doing well.

A (17:47)

No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (17:49)

I did do that. So this. This is funny. And maybe it's karma for. My mode is being wrong. So, you know, some days you just randomly, like. I feel like I'm going to be like the guy that's like, here, you know, here's. Here's a nice tip for you.

A (18:03)

It's better all in one place.

B (18:04)

So I was at a. I was at the casino, and I was just playing roulette. Okay. And the. The. What's the right. Drink waitress. Yeah, cocktail waitress came by. The drink person.

A (18:17)

We call her the drink lady.

B (18:19)

Yeah, the drink lady. That's what I. Hey, drink lady, get over here. Here, get something for your kids. But no, the cocktail waitress came over and I was like. And I. I ordered like, whatever, like a Jack and Coke or whatever. And then I. I tipped when I ordered.

A (18:36)

Yes.

B (18:36)

And I tipped like. I think I tipped like 20 bucks. Yeah, I was just like. I don't know. I think I had one. I don't know. It was just one of those things. And then. And then, like, it usually takes a long time. And like, I got probably like six or seven drinks. Like, they were just like, bringing them out. And then. And then after, like, the second, you're like, oh, I took a little bit more of, like, and then you realize like, I could have just bought drinks but, but, but then the next time I went, I was like, I'm onto something. I'm gonna tip well. And it took like forever. And every time I've gone since I've done that and there's no change in speed.

A (19:11)

Oh really? Yeah, it usually works out pretty well. Usually casinos in general, it works out better for me if the very first time they come over, you tip them well and I, you like, I'll tip them well, like little tips and I'll say something like keep them coming or something like that.

B (19:25)

Yeah.

A (19:26)

And then they're, they're always looking for you like to come back around because they're, they know that you're gonna tip them.

B (19:31)

It was funny.

A (19:31)

But they're also going to bring you drinks.

B (19:33)

It was like the time after I did that I was with my brother in law and I was like, dude, check this out, watch. I figured like, I literally was like, look, I'm gonna tip more.

A (19:40)

Yeah.

B (19:40)

And then like 30 minutes later like, where's our drinks? They're just in the back. My shift's over. Goodbye. You know. But anyway, I do think that is, that's like an underrated to me like tips even like with like doordash or something. Like, like I've had times where it's like pick up this craft thing or whatever and they're like extra helpful. Funny. It's like to me that's an underrated form of like not, not charity but like giving, giving to people, you know.

A (20:08)

And then you get, you know exactly where it's going and you know the person, you know, like you feel good about giving the person that's serving you.

B (20:15)

That if someone's really mean, you slip their tip that someone else left off the table.

A (20:19)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

B (20:20)

That's what you do. It's your old mo.

A (20:21)

Well it's funny because like the only version of me talking online about tipping is usually an antagonistic way because I, I hate tipping culture. I, yeah, I despise tipping culture and it's gotten way out of hand. And this screen is just going to.

B (20:35)

Ask you one quick question. I'm not going to look.

A (20:38)

Yeah, I'm at the drive thru and you handed me a black coffee through the window. Like I'm not going to tip you. I'm sorry. Like, just not going to happen in most settings where tips are given. I'm a very generous tipper and I enjoy tipping. Let's say it's, it's, it's really though, it's the expectation.

B (20:55)

Yeah.

A (20:56)

And, and to me that's the, and that is sort of the difference even with like the church and, and different non profit organizations is they, they, they gain this sense of entitlement to your money that irritates me. And just. And again that like contrarian in me just goes like, yeah, I'm gonna like the other day we were. Oh, it was at the movie theater bar. So literally bar at the movie theater. We're gonna go watch movie with the kids or. No, it was me and Jackie on date night. I just got a can of beer. So it was like you handed me a can of beer. And then she goes, oh, I was just gonna ask you a couple quick questions or whatever. And I go to just press enter on it to have zero tip.

B (21:37)

It's auto selected.

A (21:38)

And, and it would not let me move to the next step until I entered a tip. So I entered one penny and pressed enter and it wouldn't do anything. So she was like, do you wanna just skip that part? And I was like, yeah. She's like, okay, well I have to do. So she had to like take the thing back, enter something else on there, hit pat, hit enter and then hand it back to me without tipping. It was just like that stuff is the stuff that irritates me. I want where it's like you're expect. Like the expectation is, is irritating. Especially when it's like, look, we're at a movie theater.

B (22:08)

You're not making.

A (22:08)

You handed me a can of beer from the fridge behind you. The only reason I couldn't do it is because it's illegal for me to grab my own beer at this place. And this is the second one that I bought and I tipped you the first time. I'm not just going to keep giving you money for free by handing me a beer that's just an extra tax.

B (22:23)

I got a glass of wine at the movie theater when I was watching the housemates for the second time and they gave me the cup to pour the wine into it myself.

A (22:32)

Yeah, yeah. And then said, and then said it's going to ask you a couple quick questions.

B (22:36)

No, they didn't say that, but it just bothered me that I had to pour my own.

A (22:39)

Yeah.

B (22:40)

You know, so that stuff's annoying. But it was great though, all that.

A (22:43)

To say, I love tipping and I am a generous, generous tipper, but tip culture is going to get out of hand lately. So. All right, that. At least it's not the frozen yogurt place. That's the worst one. That's the worst cold.

B (22:56)

Let's end on a positive.

A (22:58)

Anyway, for those listening, remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you have money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time.

B (23:08)

Peace.