INTERVIEW | Make Money Building a Personal Brand That Pays, feat. Erik Qualman

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: INTERVIEW | Make Money Building a Personal Brand That Pays, feat. Eric Qualman
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Eric Qualman – Bestselling author, keynote speaker, entrepreneur
Date: April 7, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into the unconventional routes to building a profitable personal brand, led by Travis Chappell’s interview with Eric Qualman. Eric shares his journey from hustling as a kid in Michigan to becoming a renowned author and keynote speaker. Together, they unpack the lessons, mindset shifts, and revenue strategies behind making more money – not by scrimping and saving, but by earning more and leveraging unique opportunities. The conversation also covers entrepreneurship, the varied paths to publishing, building diverse revenue streams, and practical advice for aspiring money-makers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Eric’s Early Entrepreneurial Spirit (01:18–02:58)

• First Dollar Moment:
  Eric recalls his first business in elementary school selling marigold flower seeds door-to-door for 25 cents, as well as founding "Swish Magazine" in 8th grade, selling College basketball content and ad space.
  Quote:

  “I started Swish magazine because I loved College basketball... would sell Swish magazine and sell advertising in that magazine.” – Eric Qualman (01:56)

• Innate or Learned?
  Eric realizes in hindsight that his entrepreneurial instincts were present early, though he didn’t consciously call himself an entrepreneur until later.

Education, Mindset, and Athletic Experiences (03:18–05:22)

• College Years:
  Attended Michigan State, started as basketball team manager, walked on, and eventually earned a full ride with Hall of Fame coach Tom Izzo.

  “I was the water boy, actually as a manager. And then I kept working at it, then eventually walked on, then got a full ride scholarship...” – Eric Qualman (03:54)

• Academics vs. Entrepreneurship:
  While focused on grades and diligent study habits, Eric later sees the value in entrepreneurial thinking over academic perfection.

• Grad School & Early Career:
  Attended McCombs for grad school, took the first entrepreneurial class offered, unwittingly planting seeds for his future business.

Journey Through Tech and Marketing (05:27–07:02)

• Breaking into Digital:
  Interned at Cadillac, transitioned into the tech world – worked at Yahoo (late 90s), then led marketing at Travelzoo, helping take it public.

• Landmark Book:
  Wrote "Socialnomics" in 2009, predicting the massive impact social media would have on business and politics, establishing authority in digital leadership.

The Value of Working for Others First (12:00–14:39)

• Experience & Mentorship:
  Eric emphasizes the irreplaceable value of learning on someone else’s dime, suggesting to use every boss (good or bad) as a learning tool.
  Quote:

  “If you don’t have a good boss, use it as a learning experience. Okay, but when I become the boss, this is what I’m not going to do.” – Eric Qualman (12:24)

• Soft Landing into Entrepreneurship:
  Rather than abruptly quitting, Eric straddled his job and his growing side business for four years before fully transitioning.

• The Power of Asking:
  Personal anecdote: He negotiated a reduced role at his day job to accommodate speaking gigs after his book took off, after simply asking if a creative solution was possible.

  "If you never ask, the answer is always no." – Eric Qualman (13:16)

Building a Personal Brand and Diversifying Revenue (18:30–23:17)

• Keynote Speaking as Core Revenue:
  Speaking remains Eric’s main revenue driver. He also launched a blog (Socialnomics), monetized it with ad revenue, and scaled via contributors.

• Animation Studio Origin Story (23:17):
  Viral video success for his book led to companies requesting similar videos; after several requests, Eric pivoted into animation production, even working with Disney. Memorable Moment:

  “The third one, it’s finally like, this guy’s not very bright. Yes. I was out there like, oh, my gosh. And so then I go, yeah, we’ve got a studio. We can do it.” – Eric Qualman (23:17)

• Listening for Demand Signals:
  The best product ideas often come from repeated requests from others; adaptability pays off.

Book Publishing: Traditional vs. Self vs. Hybrid (25:05–29:46)

• Both Worlds:
  Eric has published through major publishers (Wiley, McGraw Hill) and through “artisanal publishing” (his term for refined self-publishing).

  “We've figured out how to do it, we figured out their vendors... sometimes it makes more sense for us to take full ownership.” – Eric Qualman (25:05)

• Control and Customization:
  Artisanal/self-publishing is preferred for speed, creative control, and custom branding (e.g., custom book covers, branded green glasses as merch).

• Traditional Publishing Today:
  Eric believes first-time authors no longer need a major publisher for credibility—direct-to-reader and self-publishing are now viable first steps.

Publishing Industry Realities & Book Promotion (29:46–33:41)

• Bookstore Placement & Author Hustle:
  Placement in bookstores is often pay-to-play; authors themselves must actively promote and move the books to sell well.

• Keynotes Drive Sales:
  Speaking engagements are a major book sales driver due to bulk orders and the high-trust platform.

• Sales Realities:

  “It’s only 5% of books sell more than 250 copies.” – Eric Qualman (33:17)
  Successful book sales require active, ongoing promotion far beyond simply securing a publishing deal.

• Memorable Moment:
  Eric and his family move his books for better bookstore placement, showing the importance of hustle even after becoming successful authors.

  “If my team's out there. My daughters even do it when they’re traveling.” – Eric Qualman (32:39)

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Notable Quotes

• “If you never ask, the answer is always no.” – Eric Qualman (13:16)
• “You did that on other people’s dime. While they paid you.” – Travis Chappell (15:38)
• “Writers sell books, publishers print books.” – Eric Qualman (29:53)
• “Once you’re done writing your book, you’re 50% there. The other 50% is getting it out there.” – Eric Qualman (30:45)
• “It’s only 5% of books sell more than 250 copies.” – Eric Qualman (33:17)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:18 – Eric’s first money-making venture and early enthusiasm for entrepreneurship
• 03:54 – From water boy to scholarship athlete at Michigan State
• 05:27 – Early tech career at Yahoo and Travelzoo
• 07:02 – Writing "Socialnomics" and seeing opportunity in social media
• 12:00 – Value of learning under others and transitioning from employment to entrepreneurship
• 13:16 – The importance of asking for what you want at work
• 18:30 – Speaking as a key monetization path and developing multiple income streams
• 23:17 – Accidental beginnings of the animation business, powered by viral videos
• 25:05 – Experiences with both traditional and self-publishing
• 29:46 – The myth and changing realities of traditional publishing credibility
• 33:17 – Shocking statistics: Only 5% of books sell over 250 copies
• 34:25 – Where to find Eric and closing advice

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Final Takeaways

• Personal brand building today requires adaptability, a willingness to test new revenue streams, and the courage to ask for what you want.
• Success often comes not from meticulously planning every step but from noticing patterns and seizing new opportunities as they arise.
• When it comes to book publishing, control, and hustle can matter more than getting a deal. Authors are responsible for their own marketing.
• Monetize your skills in diverse ways, and don’t underestimate the power of saying “yes” to repeated opportunities, even if they weren’t part of the original plan.

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For More from Eric Qualman

• Website: Equalman.com
• Social Media: @equalman

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Host’s Closing Wisdom:

“Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got money in the bank.” – Travis Chappell (34:33)

Transcript

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody?

[Travis (Host)]

Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you all make more money. Today on the show, I'm talking to a new friend, Eric Qualman. He's a five time best selling author and keynote speaker, spoken in over 60 countries and reached over 60 million people. He's the number one best selling author of five different books on digital leadership. He's also the inventor of the best selling board game Kitty Corn. And he's also a father and a husband. So he's got a couple of things going on in his life, yet he still finds ways to be able to make good money and support his family the way he wants to. Which is exactly what we'll talk about here on the show. So, Eric, what's up, dude? Welcome to the show.

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

[Travis (Host)]

So let's go back in time and tell me the first time that you ever made a dollar that you were like actually excited about.

[Eric Qualman]

It was long time ago. I was in elementary school, grew up outside of Detroit in Michigan, and I sold marigold flowers door to door. So think about a kid that's just breaking up marigold. If you ever play with the flowers, they break into thousands of seeds. And so you put those into cups and you sell them door to door for 25 cents. And nice parents buy them. So it was. And then they plant them. So it's good.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah. Was that something that was innate in you, you think, or your parents encouraged

[Eric Qualman]

you to do that? Yeah, it's funny. It's just in there. And I never, only looking back, like I've never said, oh yeah, back in the day as an entrepreneur. But then people ask me more and more questions as I get interviewed. I started going, yeah, I guess, yeah, even eighth grade. I started Swish magazine because I loved College basketball. And back then, the only way you got information was from a printed magazine. And so I subscribed to all the magazines and then compiled all that would sell Swish magazine and sell advertising in that magazine. So it's kind of funny.

[Travis (Host)]

Who's going to win the championship?

[Eric Qualman]

Gosh, I hope it's not Michigan. My parents both with the U of M. I played basketball for coach Tom Izzo at Michigan State.

[Travis (Host)]

Oh, really?

[Eric Qualman]

So we were adamantly big Yukon fans tonight. And Izzo, a lot of you might not know this. He's real good friends with Hurley because they're kind of old school coaches. Yeah. What about you? Who do you like?

[Travis (Host)]

I. I'm just hoping for a good game, man. I, I just. I. Yeah, I'm not one or the other, to be honest with you. I was just hoping to see something awesome. Which we've seen some pretty good stuff so far. So I, I have high hopes for the championship game. But. Yeah, there we go.

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, I do win a lot of money though. Michigan wins because I go this nightmare could come true. So I put a place to a bet two months ago if they want it all, and then my daughter wins a pretty big March Madness pool. Obviously it's charitable. No, it's a pretty big March Madness pool if. If Michigan wins.

[Travis (Host)]

Dang. Okay, well, I guess we'll find out, man. I guess we'll find out. Yeah. I had to ask a selfish question because you mentioned college basketball. Okay, so high school, college time frame. Any pressure from your. Your parents, teachers to go to school? Did you end up going to school? Tell me about that transition from high school.

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah.

[Eric Qualman's Family Member]

No.

[Eric Qualman]

I mean, my parents want me good grades in high school and it's the right amount of pressure. And then college is just kind of almost assumed. But not like today. I wasn't thinking about it all the time. Like my daughters. I got a ninth and eighth grade. They think about it a lot more. And all kids do. Back then I was like, oh, I'm a senior. I might start thinking about college. What do I need to do? And so that's the way that that transpired. So I wound up going to Michigan State. And then I was part of that. As I mentioned, I was the water boy, actually as a manager. And then I kept working at it, then eventually walked on, then got a full ride scholarship to play for hall of fame. Coach Thomas. If you don't know basketball, he's been around since 83 at Michigan State. He's a legend.

[Travis (Host)]

Wow, that's awesome. So were you when. When you were there. Was it basically in your mind that like, I just want to play bas basketball or were you focused on the studies part of it?

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, no, I liked school in terms of I would was pretty diligent about on Fridays going to the library before I got home because otherwise you're going into party mode.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah.

[Eric Qualman]

Now once you're on the basketball team, you can't party too much because it's just too painful. Maybe once a week we'd have a Sundays off. But yeah, no, I was definitely focused on studies more along the lines of grades, which now I think the younger generation can see more. It's not the grades. It's like, am I going to start my own thing back then? And actually I wound up going to grad school. Three years after I went to undergrad, I went to McCombs, which is in Austin, and I took the first ever entrepreneurial class. No one knew what that word meant actually, but they said that, hey, this professor's interesting. He's good, Take it. So I did that not knowing that eventually, 15 years after that moment, I'd eventually become my own entity and my own business.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah. So let's bridge the gap between those two things. So 15 years. What are you doing during that time?

[Eric Qualman]

So I fell in the tech space backwards because I was an intern early on at Cadillac and fell into the digital space and loved it back when no one knew what digital was. And then I wound up going to work at Yahoo in the late 90s. For those that don't know, they were kind of the Facebook of the day. They were the cats meow back in the late 90s. Then it went dot com bust. And then fortunately I made it through all those rounds of layoffs. When you do that, they're throwing equity at you a lot. And Yahoo was one of the winners at the time. So I was in the right place, right time. Unfortunately didn't get in those two rounds of layoffs when they're trimming the country company, but the people that they wanted to stay, they were throwing just tons of options and shares at you. And in your 20s you just assume that's normal. Looking back, you're like, oh my gosh, what a glorious time to be. And then eventually I wound up going to be the head of marketing at Travelzoo. And we took that company from private to public. Those not familiar with Travelzoo, it was basically a weekly news still around it's publicly traded weekly newsletter. Every Wednesday you get it for free on the top travel deals around the world. So Ralph Bartel reported to him. He's the founder. I was the head of marketing, so that was a great ride. And then I wrote a book called social nomics in 2009 when my space was really big and most people thought it was just a teenage toy. So it's, you got to put your mind in that framework. And my book was, no, this is going to change the way we do business and also politics and everything, basically the way we communicate. And here we are today. So that was the right place, right time, and so I fell into becoming an author kind of backwards.

[Travis (Host)]

I'm curious what your advice is to young people now, now that you obviously you're at the, you know, entrepreneurial part of your career, but you spend a good amount of time working with other people, building other companies.

[Travis]

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[Travis (Host)]

is and collecting a paycheck. What, what value did you gain from. From working for others first before you stepped into entrepreneurship?

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, I mean some of it. Someone told me this, I started off an ad agency and they don't ever want to work at agencies so they wouldn't pay you much money. So my first boss said hey, this is experience. Be like the army, not going to pay you much, but the experience is invaluable. And so it was really just trying to learn from the client side, from the agency side. And it was Cadillac that we primarily was our primary client. But it was really throughout my career just trying to figure out that your kind of happiness comes from within. And so I have always loved all my jobs and I've been fortunate to have primarily good bosses. And if you don't have a good boss, use it as a learning experience. Okay. But when I become the boss, this is what I'm not going to do. But fortunately I had really good mentors and, and was really lucky. And then so that helped pave the way for when I eventually kind of left the nest and did my own thing and we could talk about how I did that. I kind of soft shoed that. I didn't just burn the boats like some people have to. I actually kept my day job and straddled things for about four years and then eventually. Okay, yeah, I mean I was the other learning I'd say is if you never ask, the answer is always no. And so social nomics, the book takes off, I'm taking days off. It turns out the people I didn't know this whole world existed. There's keynote speakers that they need, keynote speakers at every conference. I had no idea what that world was, but what they wanted me to speak on Social Nomics at the time. So I would take a day off. I had a global team that I had to manage. And so I'd take a day off to fly to Buenos Aires to speak. And then eventually I talked to the owner. This is, I'm now at Education first so it's a big company, 30,000 employees. It's Swedish, privately held. Fortunately, I reported the owner. And I went to the owner and said, hey, I love the mission of the company, but here's the deal. This book's going nuts. I've been taking days off vacation and I'm kind of getting exhausted. It's not fair to you or my team any way we can work something out where I don't manage a team, but I'm still part of the mission. And he goes, let's do this. I'll give you health care, you got your baby coming, cut your salary in half, stay in your office. We're just gonna come down and tap your brain because we really need to digitally transform and we need your help. And so let's do it that way. So it's good. I told him you could tell me, you know, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. When I brought it up to him, I totally get that. I go, I'm just saying I'd love to stay out. There's a way we can get creative. And fortunately, if you ask and sometimes you kind of come in with something that's win, win for both sides. Just go for it.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that it will be, you know, the same for you. And like you said, if you, if you don't ask, you're just in the same position that you were in before, so may as well throw it out there. And it's cool that again, it's cool that you had a boss in a company that. That was. That also thought that way. You know what I mean? Because I feel like that that's like my gripe with the sort of corporate structure is that there's not too many people or too many companies that have a culture or too many leaders that have a thought process that is like, that they're just kind of like arbitrary rule enforcers, you know what I mean? So it's, it's. If you can get into a company like that, man. And then the beautiful thing about it to me is that you get to earn and learn at the same time. Your learning doesn't stop after you graduate and get a degree or don't get a degree or whatever, like you're learning has just begun. You know what I mean? And so when you can, especially on the marketing perspective, you know, like, you built an actual skill set, like a real skill that can. That is highly valuable to a multitude of companies.

[Eric Qualman]

Right.

[Travis (Host)]

You did that on other people's dime. While they paid you, you know.

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, and it's a win for them, too. And part of it became like when I was interviewing for that because they recruited me and I'd never heard of them. And then I got in there and the recruiter's always like, this is a culture you've never seen before. And they always say that. And I got in there, I go, oh, actually this is true because mainly I would stay at roles for three to five years. I loved all my roles. I would just eventually get recruited and then it was time to move on. But what I learned on the last stint was to go, hey, look, I do stuff outside of work that some would view at some companies as, how does that guy have the energy and time? Shouldn't he be putting all his energy and time into the company? And so that you're aware, I'm going to be doing very well here. As you can see, you're recruiting me, but I want to see what the culture is here. Is that okay? The benefit to you is that if I'm out testing social for myself, that it's going to benefit the company because I've learned on my own dime outside of the company and I'm going to bring those learnings into the company. So that was a question that I learned to ask during the interview process.

[Travis (Host)]

So that transition into full time for you, was that a I need a certain dollar amount in my bank account, Was that a I need a certain amount of cash flow on a monthly basis? Was it a confidence thing? Like, was it just. Was it just sort of like, this is a good setup because they allowed me to do whatever I wanted to do here at the company, so why would I stop doing this?

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, no, it's a good question. I think about year two, under that new agreement, I was confident enough to go, we could do it on our own. I've got the healthcare figured out because that's always a big question for a lot of people, like, well, this company's giving me healthcare. And so then you figure out all those nuances and then you're going, okay, we're ready to do it. But to your point, I really enjoyed being around those people and I was learning a lot and also giving a lot back to the organization. But by year four, it had just become the demands were too high on my time externally that it wasn't really too beneficial for the company. And I just said, look, I'm not going to be here that often because I'm traveling a lot to speak. And so it's really not fair to you. So even though I love and would love to stay here, I kind of just proactively because they were so good to me, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing anything that was not beneficial for them.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah, sure, sure. Which I assume they very much appreciate it and it leaves the door open for the future, you know what I mean? Like things go south or not even things go south, but like maybe they need a consultant in three years from now and they. You know what I mean? Like it's always a good idea to prioritize people and relationships over, you know, a little bit of cash flow or something like that. Curious too, was when, when you went full time into this, was it was speaking like the number one monetization point and is that still what it looks like today?

[Eric Qualman]

It was and it still is. Now we've been able to fortunate to branch out into other other revenue streams. And so I had a blog, Social Nomics, that historically was just a blog that I wrote. And then eventually that became too time consuming. So I brought on a team to help manage the socialnomics.com and then we have 100 different writers from all over the world and columnists. And so then we started to monetize it, so putting ad revenue against it. So that was another revenue stream which was nice. And then I didn't have to be involved. So it was building the right team to where I was just occasionally giving direction. So the team's been amazing at being able to run with that piece. So it's been great. And then we also, obviously the books are revenue generating, so that's great. Sometimes I'll do some coaching, consulting, but it's primarily I do keynote speaking because it's what I love. It's probably what I'm best at, even better than writing. And so that's what I really love to do. Then we started an animation company. So for the listeners out there, don't do what I did. You're going to get knocks on the door of opportunity. And so I had done a video for the first book. I hired it, I was in Cambridge at the time. So I hired just one of our MIT students to put together at the time. It's called Motion Graphics. It's through Adobe Suite. It was kind of a brand new tool. And so I had for 400 bucks just put this video out there and it went.

[Travis]

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[Eric Qualman]

Massively viral. So then people were going, I want that person, whoever made that video to speak. But at the same time, I was getting companies knocking on the door, hey, Eric, I'd love for you to make a video for our company. I'm like, well, I don't do that. I just did it for my book. And then the second one, hey, can you make a video? And I go, no, I just do that for myself. The third one, it's finally like, this guy's not very bright. Yes. I was out there like, oh, my gosh. And so then I go, yeah, we've got a studio. We can do it. So then I started to outsource that animation through upwork. I'd write the scripts through the production, but I had the animators animate it. And then eventually I actually had a call from Disney, and I thought it was like an April Fool's joke because it was on April 1, but it was Disney, and they wanted us to help them make a two to three minute animated piece. So it's kind of one of those crazy wow moments in your career. And we worked with them a couple times on some animation pieces. Not stuff you'd see in the theater, but stuff for their business side.

[Travis (Host)]

Sure, sure.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Travis (Host)]

You got to follow the signals sometimes, you know, Explain that with. There was a service that we had a couple a couple years ago that that's exactly what happened. It was like, by like the sixth person, I was like, well, I'm not in the business of turning down money, so if there's this many people asking for it, then maybe there's something here, you know what I mean? And that then became like our number one product for. For Qu. Sometimes it's just a matter of being willing to ask the questions and then listen to what people are actually telling you that they want from you. And then you can build something around that. You know, you've written now five books, right? As long as, as long as my information is updated.

[Eric Qualman]

Five best sellers. There's been a couple that haven't been bestsellers, so I've written seven, but two of them weren't bestsellers.

[Travis (Host)]

Okay, so did you do traditional publishing or did you go self publish or hybrid publish?

[Eric Qualman]

We've done both. And so we've gone. Wiley did the first one with Social Nomics, digital leaders with McGraw Hill. And then once we figured out how to artisanal publish, we don't call it self publishing, but because we figured out how to do it, we figured out their vendors and we still work with publishers, we still might, if it makes sense, use a publisher because we really like them. But sometimes it makes more sense for us to take full ownership to have that vertical stack because that's another revenue generator because then we can customize books. So I'm going to speak at Coke. So they want, you know, red cover and they want a polar bear on it. And then those that are just listening, I wear bright green glasses. And so they would ask, hey, can we get glasses for the audience? And we'd send them. Yeah, here's a link on Amazon that eventually, like that's a pain for us, can you do it? And then so that's been a great source of not only fun but also revenue. I think we sold over a hundred thousand of these glasses. If I go into a company, everyone in the audience is going to have the glasses on as a reminder to focus on big versus busy. So some of these revenue streams, you just never would think, and a lot of times it's the fun stuff that you do turns into revenue.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah, well, you're a perfect person to ask this to. Then traditional publishing, self publishing, artisanal publishing as you lovingly refer to it, or even there's some of these sort of hybrid publishers that exist in the middle for somebody that's listening, maybe is like a first time author or considering writing a book or maybe they have a manuscript or something like that, what would be the path that you would initially recommend to them?

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, I mean historically, if you're looking back 15 years ago, be like, get a publisher for that first one. So you have credibility. I don't think you need that anymore. And so you got to figure out what I was talking to this woman that's got her first book. And I go, it looks like in your personality that you really want to have control over the COVID and everything. And I go, you don't want to use a publisher. If that's the case, how much control? And you want speed. You don't want to use a publisher because by the time you hand over to a publisher, it's usually. Historically, it's like a year and a half. And we tried to rush it once. I do not recommend that, because if you rush it and we got approval, I go, I'll sign with you, but I need it out by Christmas because I want this selling before Christmas. And that was a mistake on my part because they didn't have time to get the salesforce informed to sell it into the stores. And so, I mean, we could talk an hour and a half on the three different ways you can go down. But at the end of the day, if it's a kid's book, you probably want to use a publisher because you need the distribution. Other than that, if you're just writing, say, a business book, it's your first book, maybe you want the cachet of a publisher. Now be careful, because they all have arms that will charge you. They're like, yeah, we'll publish your book. You get all excited, and they're going, well, you got to buy 10,000 copies. So basically, you're paying them to publish your book. What you want to get is an advance. You want to get a check so that they're paying you, and then the book's due in a year and a half. And for a business book, nonfiction books, you don't have to write the book. You just have to have a query letter. This is my idea. If it's a fiction book, if you're writing the next Harry Potter, you have to have the whole book completed. When you approach the publisher, in most times, you have to have a litter agency agent. So an agent's harder to get than a publisher. Once you get the agent, they'll sell you to the publisher. We got lucky. I've never used an agent. Just. That's another story. But that's. That's generally the path. Yeah, but we. When we do our own, we do it because we want to control the COVID So this is hard to. I know you guys are listening, but there's certain colors. Like, this is super bright. A publisher would have a tough time doing this because it's not a four color process. So we pay extra to do that. And so it depends on how much control you want. But the first question you need to ask, are you writing the book or are you having someone write it? If you're having someone write it, then you might do the hybrid and you might do the hybrid. If you don't know how to market it, if you don't know anything about getting the libraries, it's pretty easy to sort out, especially with AI. We've figured it out over the years. So we know how to do it just as well as a publisher because we're using the same vendors. And, and so anyways, I'll pause there because there's a lot of paths we can go and I'll just. If you have any other questions, we can dig deeper.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah, no, I think that's a great like surface level place to start because yeah, I think it's, I think it's interesting that, that the first thing that you said is the thing I would like to just kind of ask one more question about, which is that you said 15 years ago it might have mattered to have the credibility of your first, first book being a real publisher. So you just don't think that that's the truth today?

[Eric Qualman]

Yeah, I don't. I mean, because most placements in bookstores, not all, but you can pay to have your placement in bookstores. Most of those locations are pay to play. So most of the stuff you can figure out. So the old adage was that, and it's still true today if you go with a publisher, which are great, we might use a publisher as well because we can't get into libraries as well as they can. There's certain things they can do that are better get into the stores right away. But writers sell books, publishers print books. Yeah. So a lot of authors think, oh, they're going to sell my book for me. No, they've got all these books. So when they put your books in the store, you have three weeks for that to sell. And if it doesn't, they're going to go to the next book. And so it's important for you to understand. The other adage too is once you're done writing your book, you're 50% there. Because 50% is stuff in all authors think they're unique. Well, I like to write. I don't like to sell it or promote it. I'm like, yeah, that's what every author wants to do.

[Travis (Host)]

That is the artist dilemma right there.

[Eric Qualman]

Artists. But you got to get out there. You're only on 50% of the job. The other 50% is getting it out there.

[Travis (Host)]

Yeah, no, yeah, that's the. I think probably the biggest misnomer with publishers is that it's. Just because you got a publishing deal does not mean it's going to sell. My producer and I were looking at stats the other day, and it was something like. It was. It was a crazy number, dude. I forget the exact number, but it was like, less than 10% of published books sell more than a thousand copies or something like that, or. And then like, something around that percentage are the only ones that will ever make their advance back to the publisher and things. So it's like, if you just getting the deal is not what's going to get you to sell a bunch of copies. You're like, like, you said, like, that's like step one. It's like, cool, we got a deal. You know what I mean? But, like, now the real work begins. Now you got to write the book. And then it's like, cool. Wrote the book. Well, now you have, like, two years of promotion after the book gets published to, you know, continue to get it out there into people's hands and try to get them to read it. You know, have you found that keynote speaking is, like, the best way to get your book out there?

[Eric Qualman]

Definitely one of them for sure. Because, I mean, those are bulk orders. And then also you're on stage, and so they're giving you this huge platform. They're paying you to be on stage, and that's a big platform. I want to read that person's book or more and more, they want to listen to it. So that's how Mel Robbins really crushed it, because she did her own reading, like, in house and owned that whole piece. So that's big. But, yeah, no, that's. That's a great way to get it out there. And also, it's crazy enough I've just asked bookstores sometimes, hey, I'll be in the airport. I go, can we get our book? Yeah, here's a number. Call. And it's not easy to get in there, but more times than not, all of a sudden you get your book on the shelf and then they just reorder if it's selling.

[Travis (Host)]

Sure.

[Eric Qualman]

And then if you're in the airport. I travel a lot. You move the book around. So it's like, at the prime location. Right. Take my glasses off, move a book around. If my team's out there. My daughters even do it when they're traveling.

[Travis (Host)]

So that's hilarious.

[Eric Qualman]

And it makes a huge difference. Like, it's night and day because I travel so much that I'll. Usually I'm gone just for, like, 18 hours. So if I move the book, like, literally, you can see itself where. If it stayed where it was, it wouldn't sell because it's way in the back sometimes. And so it's really. It's that old adage, you know, just kind of have the passion, go after it, do those little things, and ask, you know, hey, how do I get a book into this bookstore? And they're gonna say, no. They're not sitting there. They get a thousand solicitations trying to figure out. And then once you have one, you can go, it's selling really well over here. And they can see, like, down the road, once you get that domino, it helps a little bit because you're like, well, this is selling. Because to your point. So the numbers are even crazier. It's only 5% of books sell more than 250 copies. And then if you make sell 5,000 copies, usually the publisher, depending on your advance, is gonna be happy because they've made back the money on that book.

[Travis (Host)]

But, yeah, that's wild to me, dude.

[Eric Qualman]

That's kind of crazy. And when one of the bookstores were in one of the airports, they said, well, you're gonna sell probably two to three copies a month. I wasn't surprised because we've been in the space for a while, but we've been fortunate because of the placement and the brightness of the COVID We took the time to pay extra and get that brightness that we sell around 40amonth. So it's not two to three. Wow. So that's clearing through. So our bigger issues, talking to the manager like, you're out of books again. Because we see it so often, we're in there, right? Hey, you're about to run out of books. You got to reorder. We need the PO. Yeah, yeah.

[Travis (Host)]

Well, that's a good problem to have.

[Eric Qualman]

That's nice.

[Travis (Host)]

Well, Eric, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show, man. Where can people go to get more from you?

[Eric Qualman]

Just Equal man sounds like a superhero, but it's my first initial last name. It's just equal man.com and equal man across all social.

[Travis (Host)]

Equalman.com or equal man on social. Go check out a couple of the books that Eric's been putting out. I appreciate you taking the time, man. I know it is valuable. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.

[Eric Qualman's Family Member]

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[Eric Qualman]

Unbelievable.

[Eric Qualman's Family Member]

Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check anyway. Carvana.

[Eric Qualman]

Give it a whirl.

[Eric Qualman's Family Member]

Love ya.

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