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[00:00]
A
I was recently on whatnot the other day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got to go see if this thing is real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just having fun in the chat. They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece to too. Where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to see your face as the seller. Not just a logo or a brand anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers across whatnot. The number of sellers making over $1 million a year has now doubled. The consistency pays off for those sellers. It's not just side hustle, it's a real path to building something that lasts. Because whatnot buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, they're not just browsing around, they're engaged, they're buying, they're coming back. You go live, show off your products in real time and turn what you love into real income. So search whatnot whnot in the App Store, download it today and get started selling right away. You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's going on everybody?
[01:34]
B
Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money. On this episode of the show, I have a new friend, Letha Sanderson. She is an entrepreneur and wellness advocate and the founder of Four Moon Spa out in Encinitas, California which is a wellness playground designed to bring healing, community and self discovery together. Blends traditional treatments, alternative therapies, workshops, curated retail to make wellness accessible, joyful and deeply human. I just read something recently that was talking about the burgeoning wellness space and what it's predicted to be at here in the next five to 10 years. And it is not a small number, so leave is at the forefront of that. Leetha, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the show.
[02:15]
C
Thank you so much for Having me. It's great to be here.
[02:19]
B
So let's dive in and talk about the first time that you ever made a dollar that was, like, surprising or shocking to you, like, something that you were like, I cannot believe that somebody just paid me money to do this.
[02:33]
C
My gosh. I don't know if I felt that or in that way. Yes, that's. I guess that's a reframe for me. I just feel in gratitude to be able to. Doing. To be able to do what I'm doing with the people I do it with in the community I do it with. And so I think my. Maybe the surprising thing is, is you can create a job for yourself, a role for yourself that is so deeply fulfilling and still can sustain you. And maybe that's, you know, something that I think a lot of us secretly fear we can't do. And so I think maybe. Maybe that is it just to, you know, for me to be able to create something I love so much, just, like, pinch me moments.
[03:16]
B
But, yeah. Yeah, of course. Did you always have this sort of, like, entrepreneurial leaning? Did you go, you know, traditional route first, bridge the gap for us, like, from high school to now?
[03:28]
C
Yeah. Well, I can even go back farther than high school because I remember. I don't know if they still do this in school, and I actually kind of hope they don't, but I was probably in fourth grade or something, fifth grade. And there was a lot of pressure in my school about getting your life in order before you get to middle school, because that's when things get serious. They gave us just so kind of laughing, as I say, about the time I was like, oh, my God, I got to get serious. You know?
[03:52]
B
Are you 11 now, Lisa? Get your shit together.
[03:55]
C
Right? I think. But that was the messaging at the school, and I was like, wow, it all gets real from seventh grade. Okay. And so, again, so comical, now that I think about that. But I remember taking this aptitude test, and all my friends were getting like, you know, a veterinarian or writer. And I was. I got entrepreneur, and I couldn't even pronounce the word. I remember reading it on the aptitude test and showing it to my teacher and saying, what is this? And she said, oh, that's an entrepreneur. And she started explaining it to me. And what I heard was, there's no roadmap. You have no idea. You're gonna have to invent it from the ground up. Like, I was taking that in, in that way as a kid, and my first reaction was like, I got Gyps, like, I don't know how to, you know, how do I turn seventh grade? What am I gonna do in seventh grade if I gotta make it up? You know. But I always, I think that hit me at an impressionable time that I had this aptitude for creating things. And I know that I think very differently, you know, and I, you know, went to art school and, you know, managed the art department for, you know, a newspaper and went into consulting and kind of had this very. What might look like a very disjointed or crazy mix of backgrounds to put together, but it actually was like the perfect setup for sort of what I do now where it's mixing all kinds of different things together. But I did do a traditional route. I was in business consulting. I was, you know, in, you know, working for the Seattle Times. And. And then I moved to Uganda and was in nonprofit for about a decade. And then that was sort of really the transition for so many things in my life that was such an all consuming lesson, full transformative experience. And that sort of directed me to where I am now.
[05:44]
B
What prompted the move to Uganda?
[05:47]
C
Well, my husband is a physician, and so we started dating the beginning of medical school. And I always knew he wanted to. He was. He's an infectious disease epidemiology, public health person. And so we had always talked about. He. He was very interested in diseases of poverty and things that were happening in that part of the world. And so I started thinking, you know, I don't want to be a lady that lunches in that kind of setting. And I want to play mahjong in a piano in this, in this world, like, what can I do that's useful and to. So I just really started researching. I had about four years of Runway to think about how can I be impactful there? And I just thought, I'm going to, you know, I want to find something that I can. We talked about it as a family and I was like, okay, I'm going to take my personal savings, start something that I can do and manage while we're there. That could be really useful. You probably have to be on the ground in order to identify. And then, you know, kind of not knowing, like, our tenure there and also not wanting to, like, I didn't want to jump into, like, HIV or something that has a lot of resource and a lot of, you know, good people doing things. I thought, I'm going to find something that's, you know, a little bit off the radar and try and be useful and make an impact.
[06:57]
B
Yeah, I mean that's a really big life event to pick up and move to Uganda for a decade. How did you find your time there?
[07:05]
C
Well, I was there four years full time and then a month, a quarter for like another four. And it was, you know, it's funny because I guess the best way to describe it is the way a longtime African resident described it to me when I first moved there. I. We were fortunate where we landed that we moved into a street that was full of people who've been living in Africa for a very long time. A lot of the expat community is like on two year cycles and they kind of can stay pretty insular like within the embassy or things like that. And that wasn't my experience. I met, you know, an amazing group of people and one of them described it to me as living in Africa as having onion days. And it's strawberry days and I think that's a beautiful analogy. So like the strawberry days are so juicy and sweet. You're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You know, drove 15 minutes and there's zebras all around my car or whatever this beautiful magic is. And then the onion days are layer after layer after layer of difficulty and heartbreak and hardship. And I'd say in my experience being there, you know, I think life sort of in, in America is in this band, right? And we have ups and downs, we have hardships, we, we struggle. I'm not trying to minimize that at all. But I think if this is what the sort of challenge is here, Africa exists like this, you know. Yeah. The things that people are confronted with are really, really difficult. And, and watching that, you know, I was working in a pediatric cancer ward in sub Saharan Africa. So I seen a lot of really difficult things. And so that was a lesson for me to reconcile that.
[08:39]
A
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B
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[10:08]
A
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[11:27]
B
what does that do to your level of, I guess gratitude or awareness? Like coming back to America after being somewhere like that? Does that affect the way that you think about how our country is oh, yeah.
[11:41]
C
It affects how I think about everything. It really did. Because, you know, I worked across multiple levels within the country. So most of the people I was talking to were like those people that were living on that poverty line that we talk about, like that dollar a day metric. You know, they walked, you know, for 12 hours to get their kid to the hospital, sold four of their eight goats to pay for treatment, things like that. So all the way up to working with the Ministry of Trade and with officials within the government. So it was a spectrum. So it really gave me such an education in so many ways and a good reflection back onto, you know, just are how we normally live here. So one of the best takeaways for me was again, just to be in gratitude for my life and to always have this awareness of how lucky I am by an accident of birth to be born here. You know, I'm not worried about a drone picking off my child on their way to school. I'm not. You know, I. If we go to a. If something happens, we can go to a hospital and they'll treat you. You may have a bill after, but they'll treat you. You know, so. So I've just seen people with struggles that most people don't have. And so that always keeps me reset. You know, it's a reset for me if I'm, you know, feeling overwhelmed, which of course I do. You know, I have. I have stress and overwhelm and juggling too many things just like everyone else or life things that happen. But I do try to take a step back when I'm in those moments and just take a breath and remind myself, you know, that I still have a level of infrastructure and functioning in my life that I'm just profoundly grateful for.
[13:24]
B
Yeah. Even. Even the people who have it pretty bad over here still have it pretty good compared to a lot of other people on the planet. Even just the clean water thing.
[13:33]
C
Oh, for sure. Clean water.
[13:35]
B
Realizing that, yeah, that these girls are walking like, you know, 15 miles a day just to bring back buckets of water that are gonna basically make their entire family sick. You know what I mean? And then we just. We bathe in water that. That they would be happy to drink. You know what I mean? Like, that's. Those things are crazy.
[13:55]
C
I do think that's something, you know, we take for granted here. That isn't necessarily sort of a fait accompli. Right. It. It pred. It's predicated on certain things functioning like that the lights always turn on, the water always comes out of the faucet. That wasn't my experience. When we lived in Africa, I had a headlamp because we would go weeks without power sometimes, and then all of our food were spoil, and then there would be days we had no running water because the water, you need the power to run the water from the water tank. So you would run out of water. Sometimes I'd be in the hospital filthy and come home so filthy I just want to jump in the shower. And no water is in the faucet. So just things like that, that we, you know, of course, we take it for granted. We don't have any other experience. There's no shame in that or shade in that. But my experience has taught me different things. And so I don't take for granted that there's, you know, running water and power and things like that.
[14:48]
B
Yeah. Transformative experience, I'm sure. So you, what was the gap, the timeline here when you get back stateside? You mentioned that you were still going back once a quarter. When did the wellness facility come into play?
[15:04]
C
It started 10 years ago. So we've been around for 10 years, and there wasn't, there was maybe a year gap in between the two. I sort of was doing some real reflecting and deciding. It was a good time to transition out of that. There were things in my life that made it more difficult for me to be gone. The amount that I was gone, you know, I was in Africa, you know, a month, and then I was traveling monthly, internationally, doing a lot of sort of advocacy for cancer in Africa. And it just became clear it was a good time to transition. And that all came to a really beautiful sort of resolution and opened the door for what was next. And so it was about a year.
[15:41]
B
Okay, got it. And then why, why wellness? What, what, what got you thinking about the four, the four moon spa?
[15:48]
C
I think for me, I've always been a person who's, you know, one, entrepreneurial and two, service has always been important to me. I've always wanted to do something that had impact. You know, if I was going to put energy into something, I wanted it to be beyond just, just me. I, I, you know, I love resources. I think money is a great way to solve problems and keep your life, you know, happy and functioning in a really good way. But for me, there needed to be another reason. It's just my wiring. And so I just thought, how can I do something that is, you know, take another step back? Another thought that I was thinking at the time was community. You know, when you're an expat, In a place like Uganda, you're really close with your community, and, you know everybody. And, you know, my phone would literally ring if there's a car accident, and they're like, who has this blood type? So we can get this person stabilized to medevac them. It was that real community dependence. And I also left at a really interesting time. So when I left, there was no such thing as social media. And it came back four years into it and was like, whoa. It was really. I felt like such a Martian. There were words I had never heard, I'd never heard, you know, you know, the. The language at that time was like, I'll tweet you, or what is everyone talking about? And I also noticed everyone. Like, you'd go to a restaurant and everyone was on their phones, and there just felt like this disconnect to me, and I was really trying to understand it. But for me, I just think people need each other. And sort of this loneliness epidemic we've identified outside of COVID is a real nod to something that I was experiencing, you know, back in 2012, 2013, when I came back, and I just felt, you know, everyone was on their phones and sort of isolated, and I was really craving community. And so I just thought, how can I create a space that is there for people? You know, can meet people where they are, can, you know, create. You know, obviously we do. We do have a spa, so there's all that sort of beauty and wellness. But we also have a group of healers that we work with. We do community events, we do classes, we do workshops. There's just a whole host of reasons for people to come. We do concerts and comedy nights. So just this whole host of reasons for people to come out and be together and just meet people and help them, whether it's, you know, they need support in whatever way they need it. And it just seemed like, for me, it was like a nice next step, like, a little less intense than, you know, pediatric oncology.
[18:07]
B
Yeah. Tell me. Tell me a little bit about some of the struggles or obstacles that stand in the way of a wellness facility like this. And like I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, you know, obviously, we try to help people figure out ways to make more money here on the show. And one of those industries that is pretty profitable that's taking off, that has a really strong future, based on the data that we have, is the wellness space. So if somebody's sitting there thinking, like, you know what? I've always been thinking about this, you know what I mean? Like, A spa, a place to, you know, there's a sauna and there's good recovery area and this, what, you know, what, what are some of the things that they can expect jumping into a business like this?
[18:43]
C
Yeah, well, I think for us some of the challenges, the first one that pops to mind is Covid because when 90% of what you do is in person, when you have something that's disruptive to that, it's a huge punch. So for us being in California, we were forced to be closed for the better part of two years and that was huge. To go from, you know, to, to like 1% of your revenue was really, really a difficult punch, you know, to come back from. And so, so that's what I would say. And you know, some of the challenges, you know, I think I'll, you know, focus on the second part of your question, which is like just the wellness industry. It's, it's been really interesting to me because you know, wellness is doing so strong and the numbers of where it's going, whether, and there's so many different segments within it. Right. There's a wellness travel and you know, all these different ways you can approach it. But some of the things that are interesting to me that people are recommending people do is sort of our DNA for the last decade. You know, it's in real life, it's community, it's events, it's getting people, you know, to your physical space. And so that's really been gratifying in some ways for us because that's always been what we've tried to do with people. But it, I think it is a fascinating sector and there's a lot of things happening within it. Some good, some maybe not so good or maybe a little more challenging. But I think there's lots of opportunity and a whole host of ways and new things that are coming out all the time. So I like to see too wellness. Like I'm old enough to remember when wellness was kind of fringy. And so I love that, you know, these things are actually, not only are they not fringy, they're sort of a, you know, a very strong sector in an otherwise sort of confusing economy.
[20:24]
A
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[21:33]
B
what about, what about things like logistics here? Like, you know, build out costs and insurance and lease space and I see you guys are pretty, pretty close to the beach out there and Encinitas, you know, can you talk a little bit about the importance of the right location and what services you're going to offer at first and then maybe we can expand to these services but let's do that later. Let's focus on these ones now. These high, these are higher revenue. You get the profit quicker. Can you give us like a breakdown of as much as you can on the number side of things and what people could inspect jumping into a business like this?
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C
I really think it depends on your goals. Like do you want to be a spa? Are you a wellness center? What are you looking to do? And that dictates the property. So for us we didn't want to just be a spa. We wanted to have, you know, events and you know, concerts and big things. So we are, we do have about an acre right across the street from the beach in Encinitas. So pretty lucky. And we have like a koi pond at a waterfall and we brought Balinese ballets out that are in the waterfall so we can do outdoor services in those.
[22:37]
B
So you guys really purchased that property?
[22:39]
C
No, we're in the, we're, we're ready to, so that's what we've been working for. So we definitely had a lease. And so for us, I would also say too, you know, if you're in a service based business, one of the things to consider in your goals is the fact that those margins are smaller, you know, so you're splitting it with your providers and things like that. So you really have to look at what is the actual cost. I, I do think that people can oversimplify wellness. You know, we've had some therapists, you know, early on go, oh gosh, I'm going to start my own space and then come back once they realize, gosh, I have to have a website, I have to have a booking system, I have to have insurance, I have to have a cleaning service, I have to have a laundry service, I have to. There's a lot of logistical things that go into it and expenses that go into it that are non negotiable. You know, you cannot have linens, you cannot have it be very clean and all of those things. So I think really leaning into what you want to accomplish with your space and you know, and what kinds, you know, there's longevity, there's, you know, sauna at places, there's like, you know. So I really think it depends on what you're trying to do and what kind of space, you know, you feel passionate about putting the time and effort into creating.
[23:48]
B
Have you guys added any sort of product services skus that were surprising to you in terms of profitability or revenue, like where you were, you're like, ah, maybe, you know, let's try this out, see how it goes. And then it was like, wow, this is doing really well. We should do more of this.
[24:01]
C
Yeah. We're in the early stages of our product line, which we decided to create in part kind of came out of COVID and really realizing, oh my gosh, people are asking us if they could sneak in and we could treat them anyway. We have all these people who are like really appreciating sort of the benefits of working with us and we can't do anything. And so we started thinking, how can we create, you know, products for people to sort of accomplish some of these things they do at the spa at home. So we always say we have experiences at the spa and we do ritual products for home. And we started that with we kind of have our products broken out to. It's called the Evoke Collection, which is our at home ritual products. And then we have, I guess you call it like merch, where we have an angel number series of sweatshirts and T shirts. And those really surprised us. Those sold out immediately. We really didn't market them, we didn't put them. I think we did an Instagram post and sold out of our first three runs like immediately. So people really like our merch, which has been fun and nice and I love seeing it. People send us pictures of themselves, like all over. And that's a really fun way to see ourselves out in the world. And then the products we just launched really recently. So because we do have a physical space that gives us some business advantages, I think in that, yeah, we can use our, or not use our. We work with our guests almost like focus group. So we would, you know, create things and put them in, you know, integrate them into treatments, put them in the shop and see how people responded to them. You know, talk to some of our more regulars about like, what do you want to see us create both on the service side and on the product side. How can we sort of work together to evolve this in a way that's serving our customers? So everything we do is really this organic extension of something that we've experienced that we want or that's missing in the market or that our customers are asking for. And so that I think is a great way to build, if you're building, you know, into something, you know, your, your clients want from you, that's really helpful. So we, we launched what we consider like the core of every ritual, which is candle, incense, a journal, some tea, a bath. So I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Just like a little core thing. It's like what do I, you know, and then from out from that we have plans for, you know, other drops that we'll do over the, you know, couple of years.
[26:13]
B
What about marketing? How do you go about customer acquisition for a company like this? Are you, are you doing any paid channels or is it mostly organic? How does that.
[26:21]
C
We've really grown organically primarily. So we do have a, you know, a marketing team. We have marketing and PR and a social media person. And then we kind of look at our. I do almost everything that we do as marketing, you know, and because we have a physical space, we're drawing people in. So we've had an enormous amount of media which we're really grateful for. We've been in, you know, goop and sunset and we win a lot of awards and some of which, you know, actually all of the awards we didn't, none of them were pay to play. We didn't seek them out. We're, you know, we're just getting them. And because our space is beautiful, we are sort of spoiled with user generated content, which is huge because if you did, we, we've discussed. And we're probably going to start doing this but historic. We haven't done paid advertising really, but playing. Putting paid advertising against user generated content is a really great strategy. And one I think is effective just in general, whatever your industry is, because that's like, it just means a lot when someone is talking about you. And it's, you know, there's an authenticity there and there's like a realness that you, you know, can't fake yourself. And so it's a beautiful thing.
[27:26]
B
Yeah. Built in social proof.
[27:28]
C
Exactly, exactly. And we, we get, I mean, because our space is beautiful and people fall in love with it and our team is so, so welcoming. I think there is one other. I think there's a differentiator for us too in the space. In that a lot of wellness spaces are slick and it's like marble and underground lighting and it's like you almost feel like I'm not, I have to be perfect to even go to this space. So there's like, for, for a lot of people, myself included, there's like a slight alienation in that kind of an energy in a space where that's not what we wanted to create. We wanted to create something that is very welcoming and inclusive and everybody comes there immediately. You feel your nervous system kind of start to calm down and you settle in. And my team is incredibly warm and solicitous of the guests. And so because people tend to, and we have people coming, you know, whether they're, it's either upset emotionally or they're working out on the back end of a healing journey. And our team really scoops people up, pays attention to where they are and we do, we always call it surprise and delights. We do all these little extra things to love on our guests. And so I think that mix of having a really beautiful physical space that is unique and a team that just really loves on people, we get so much user generated content and that's really helped us to grow.
[28:40]
B
And yeah, Leith, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. I know you're a very busy person. I don't take that time for granted. Where can people go to get more from you and everything you're working on?
[28:50]
C
You can Find Me and Four Moons on Instagram and on LinkedIn and our website, our Instagram. If you're looking for what we're doing on Instagram for Four Moons is a great place to sister.
[29:00]
B
Perfect. Love it. And if you happen to be in the San Diego area, then stop by the facility, give it a quick visit. I think I, I was just in San Diego a couple weeks ago, but I think I'll be back in a couple of weeks as well. So email me. Yeah, yeah, we'll do. We'll do. Yeah, my. My wife should be coming with me, so I'm sure she would. She would not mind a spa day, I'm sure. So.
[29:19]
C
Yeah, well, we'd love to host.
[29:22]
B
Well, appreciate you taking the time. Leath everybody else. Tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there. Here in the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.

Summary6 min read

Travis Makes Money | Episode Summary

Episode: INTERVIEW | Make Money by Building a Wellness Brand That People Love with Letha Sandison
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Letha Sandison, Founder of Four Moons Spa (Encinitas, CA)
Date: July 29, 2026

Main Theme Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell interviews Letha Sandison, entrepreneur and founder of Four Moons Spa, to explore how she built a successful, community-driven wellness brand. The conversation dives into Letha’s unconventional path—from art and business consulting to nonprofit work in Africa, and ultimately to founding a unique wellness destination. The episode provides insightful reflections on entrepreneurship, social impact, surviving challenges like the pandemic, launching product lines, and building long-term customer loyalty—delivered with Letha’s wisdom and warmth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Entrepreneurial Instincts & Career Journey

Letha reflects on early advice that shaped her entrepreneurial mindset:
- Aptitude Test Experience (03:28):
  
  “I got entrepreneur, and I couldn't even pronounce the word.”
  She recalls feeling thrown by the idea of building something from scratch, but that moment stuck with her and shaped her varied, creative career—ranging from art school and newspaper work to business consulting and major nonprofit efforts.
Her journey includes a significant chapter in Uganda working in pediatric oncology and public health, driven by her husband's medical career.

2. Living & Working in Africa: Perspective & Transformation

On her time in Uganda:
- Strawberry Days & Onion Days (07:04):
  
  “Living in Africa as having onion days. And it's strawberry days... The strawberry days are so juicy and sweet... The onion days are layer after layer after layer of difficulty and heartbreak and hardship.”
The impact on her gratitude and awareness returning to the US:
- On Privilege and Infrastructure (11:41):
  
  “I'm not worried about a drone picking off my child on their way to school... So that always keeps me reset.”

3. Transition to Wellness & Community Building

The transition from international nonprofit to wellness:
- Four Moons Spa was founded 10 years ago, serving as a “wellness playground” blending traditional spa, holistic treatments, workshops, events, and retail.
The importance of community:
- Letha was motivated by the sense of genuine, practical community she experienced as an expat versus the disconnection she noticed in the US post-social media boom.
  - On Community Need (15:47):
    
    “People need each other... I just thought, how can I create a space that is there for people? ...I was really craving community.”

4. Challenges & Opportunities in the Wellness Industry

Discussing business obstacles:
- Pandemic Impact (18:43):
  
  “For us being in California, we were forced to be closed for the better part of two years and that was huge.”
The wellness industry’s robust, but nuanced, growth opportunities:
- “I'm old enough to remember when wellness was kind of fringy. And so I love that... these things are... a very strong sector in an otherwise sort of confusing economy.”

5. Building & Operating a Physical Wellness Space

On logistics: property, leasing, and service margins:
- Location near the beach in Encinitas allows for a unique, immersive environment (22:07).
- Operational Realities (22:36):
  
  “If you're in a service based business, one of the things to consider in your goals is the fact that those margins are smaller... You really have to look at what is the actual cost.”
- Cautions against oversimplifying what it takes to run such a business (booking systems, insurance, laundry, cleaning, etc.).

6. Product Line Development & Customer-Driven Growth

COVID inspired branching into retail products and merchandise:
- Sweatshirts, T-shirts (“angel number series”) sold out immediately with minimal marketing (24:01).
- Development of the “Evoke Collection”: at-home ritual kits including candles, incense, journaling, bath products, and tea.
- The spa’s physical guests serve as a built-in focus group for new products and services.
  - On Organic Product Creation (24:01):
    
    “Everything we do is really this organic extension of something that we've experienced that we want or that's missing in the market or that our customers are asking for.”

7. Marketing & Customer Acquisition

Primarily organic growth via community, user-generated content, and word-of-mouth:
- Featured in major media (Goop, Sunset) and awarded in the industry without pay-to-play.
- On Authentic Marketing (26:20):
  
  “There's an authenticity there and there's like a realness that you... can't fake yourself.”
- Differentiator: emphasis on welcoming, inclusive, and calming environment—steering away from the “sterile” and “slick” feel of some spas.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Self-Created Roles (02:33):

“You can create a job for yourself, a role for yourself that is so deeply fulfilling and still can sustain you... For me to be able to create something I love so much, just, like, pinch me moments.” — Letha Sandison
On Life Perspective After Africa (13:55):

“There's no shame in that or shade in that. But my experience has taught me different things. And so I don't take for granted that there's, you know, running water and power and things like that.” — Letha Sandison
On Community Motivation (15:47):

“I just felt, you know, everyone was on their phones and sort of isolated, and I was really craving community. And so I just thought, how can I create a space that is there for people?” — Letha Sandison
On Service Business Realities (22:36):

“You really have to look at what is the actual cost. I do think that people can oversimplify wellness... There's a lot of logistical things that go into it and expenses that go into it that are non negotiable.” — Letha Sandison
On Their Brand’s Differentiator (27:27):

“We wanted to create something that is very welcoming and inclusive and everybody comes there immediately. You feel your nervous system kind of start to calm down and you settle in.” — Letha Sandison

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | Intro to Letha & Four Moons Spa | [01:33] | | Early entrepreneurial moments | [02:18] | | Aptitude test story (“entrepreneur”) | [03:28] | | Nonprofit & Uganda move | [05:43] | | “Strawberry and Onion days” in Africa | [07:04] | | Perspective on returning to US | [11:41] | | How Four Moons Spa started | [15:03] | | The need for community | [15:47] | | Wellness industry challenges (COVID) | [18:43] | | Location, lease, margins, logistics | [22:07] | | Surprising retail products | [24:01] | | Customer acquisition & authentic marketing | [26:20] | | Brand differentiation | [27:27] | | Where to find Letha / Four Moons Spa | [28:49] |

Flow & Takeaways

The episode flows conversationally, blending deep insight with practical business advice and down-to-earth moments. Letha’s stories of personal transformation, her desire for meaningful service, and her observations from building community in Africa and California underscore a central message:
You can build a business that is both fulfilling and financially viable by serving real needs, cultivating genuine community, and staying flexible to changing conditions.

For listeners, Letha’s journey offers both inspiration and real-world strategies—from honest discussion of industry challenges to actionable insights on differentiating your business and growing with your customers.

Connect with Letha & Four Moons Spa:

Instagram & LinkedIn: @fourmoonsspa
Website: Four Moons Spa

Final Words from Travis:
“Money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let’s start there.”

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Transcript51 lines

[00:00]
A
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[01:34]
B
Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money. On this episode of the show, I have a new friend, Letha Sanderson. She is an entrepreneur and wellness advocate and the founder of Four Moon Spa out in Encinitas, California which is a wellness playground designed to bring healing, community and self discovery together. Blends traditional treatments, alternative therapies, workshops, curated retail to make wellness accessible, joyful and deeply human. I just read something recently that was talking about the burgeoning wellness space and what it's predicted to be at here in the next five to 10 years. And it is not a small number, so leave is at the forefront of that. Leetha, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the show.
[02:15]
C
Thank you so much for Having me. It's great to be here.
[02:19]
B
So let's dive in and talk about the first time that you ever made a dollar that was, like, surprising or shocking to you, like, something that you were like, I cannot believe that somebody just paid me money to do this.
[02:33]
C
My gosh. I don't know if I felt that or in that way. Yes, that's. I guess that's a reframe for me. I just feel in gratitude to be able to. Doing. To be able to do what I'm doing with the people I do it with in the community I do it with. And so I think my. Maybe the surprising thing is, is you can create a job for yourself, a role for yourself that is so deeply fulfilling and still can sustain you. And maybe that's, you know, something that I think a lot of us secretly fear we can't do. And so I think maybe. Maybe that is it just to, you know, for me to be able to create something I love so much, just, like, pinch me moments.
[03:16]
B
But, yeah. Yeah, of course. Did you always have this sort of, like, entrepreneurial leaning? Did you go, you know, traditional route first, bridge the gap for us, like, from high school to now?
[03:28]
C
Yeah. Well, I can even go back farther than high school because I remember. I don't know if they still do this in school, and I actually kind of hope they don't, but I was probably in fourth grade or something, fifth grade. And there was a lot of pressure in my school about getting your life in order before you get to middle school, because that's when things get serious. They gave us just so kind of laughing, as I say, about the time I was like, oh, my God, I got to get serious. You know?
[03:52]
B
Are you 11 now, Lisa? Get your shit together.
[03:55]
C
Right? I think. But that was the messaging at the school, and I was like, wow, it all gets real from seventh grade. Okay. And so, again, so comical, now that I think about that. But I remember taking this aptitude test, and all my friends were getting like, you know, a veterinarian or writer. And I was. I got entrepreneur, and I couldn't even pronounce the word. I remember reading it on the aptitude test and showing it to my teacher and saying, what is this? And she said, oh, that's an entrepreneur. And she started explaining it to me. And what I heard was, there's no roadmap. You have no idea. You're gonna have to invent it from the ground up. Like, I was taking that in, in that way as a kid, and my first reaction was like, I got Gyps, like, I don't know how to, you know, how do I turn seventh grade? What am I gonna do in seventh grade if I gotta make it up? You know. But I always, I think that hit me at an impressionable time that I had this aptitude for creating things. And I know that I think very differently, you know, and I, you know, went to art school and, you know, managed the art department for, you know, a newspaper and went into consulting and kind of had this very. What might look like a very disjointed or crazy mix of backgrounds to put together, but it actually was like the perfect setup for sort of what I do now where it's mixing all kinds of different things together. But I did do a traditional route. I was in business consulting. I was, you know, in, you know, working for the Seattle Times. And. And then I moved to Uganda and was in nonprofit for about a decade. And then that was sort of really the transition for so many things in my life that was such an all consuming lesson, full transformative experience. And that sort of directed me to where I am now.
[05:44]
B
What prompted the move to Uganda?
[05:47]
C
Well, my husband is a physician, and so we started dating the beginning of medical school. And I always knew he wanted to. He was. He's an infectious disease epidemiology, public health person. And so we had always talked about. He. He was very interested in diseases of poverty and things that were happening in that part of the world. And so I started thinking, you know, I don't want to be a lady that lunches in that kind of setting. And I want to play mahjong in a piano in this, in this world, like, what can I do that's useful and to. So I just really started researching. I had about four years of Runway to think about how can I be impactful there? And I just thought, I'm going to, you know, I want to find something that I can. We talked about it as a family and I was like, okay, I'm going to take my personal savings, start something that I can do and manage while we're there. That could be really useful. You probably have to be on the ground in order to identify. And then, you know, kind of not knowing, like, our tenure there and also not wanting to, like, I didn't want to jump into, like, HIV or something that has a lot of resource and a lot of, you know, good people doing things. I thought, I'm going to find something that's, you know, a little bit off the radar and try and be useful and make an impact.
[06:57]
B
Yeah, I mean that's a really big life event to pick up and move to Uganda for a decade. How did you find your time there?
[07:05]
C
Well, I was there four years full time and then a month, a quarter for like another four. And it was, you know, it's funny because I guess the best way to describe it is the way a longtime African resident described it to me when I first moved there. I. We were fortunate where we landed that we moved into a street that was full of people who've been living in Africa for a very long time. A lot of the expat community is like on two year cycles and they kind of can stay pretty insular like within the embassy or things like that. And that wasn't my experience. I met, you know, an amazing group of people and one of them described it to me as living in Africa as having onion days. And it's strawberry days and I think that's a beautiful analogy. So like the strawberry days are so juicy and sweet. You're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You know, drove 15 minutes and there's zebras all around my car or whatever this beautiful magic is. And then the onion days are layer after layer after layer of difficulty and heartbreak and hardship. And I'd say in my experience being there, you know, I think life sort of in, in America is in this band, right? And we have ups and downs, we have hardships, we, we struggle. I'm not trying to minimize that at all. But I think if this is what the sort of challenge is here, Africa exists like this, you know. Yeah. The things that people are confronted with are really, really difficult. And, and watching that, you know, I was working in a pediatric cancer ward in sub Saharan Africa. So I seen a lot of really difficult things. And so that was a lesson for me to reconcile that.
[08:39]
A
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[10:08]
A
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[11:27]
B
what does that do to your level of, I guess gratitude or awareness? Like coming back to America after being somewhere like that? Does that affect the way that you think about how our country is oh, yeah.
[11:41]
C
It affects how I think about everything. It really did. Because, you know, I worked across multiple levels within the country. So most of the people I was talking to were like those people that were living on that poverty line that we talk about, like that dollar a day metric. You know, they walked, you know, for 12 hours to get their kid to the hospital, sold four of their eight goats to pay for treatment, things like that. So all the way up to working with the Ministry of Trade and with officials within the government. So it was a spectrum. So it really gave me such an education in so many ways and a good reflection back onto, you know, just are how we normally live here. So one of the best takeaways for me was again, just to be in gratitude for my life and to always have this awareness of how lucky I am by an accident of birth to be born here. You know, I'm not worried about a drone picking off my child on their way to school. I'm not. You know, I. If we go to a. If something happens, we can go to a hospital and they'll treat you. You may have a bill after, but they'll treat you. You know, so. So I've just seen people with struggles that most people don't have. And so that always keeps me reset. You know, it's a reset for me if I'm, you know, feeling overwhelmed, which of course I do. You know, I have. I have stress and overwhelm and juggling too many things just like everyone else or life things that happen. But I do try to take a step back when I'm in those moments and just take a breath and remind myself, you know, that I still have a level of infrastructure and functioning in my life that I'm just profoundly grateful for.
[13:24]
B
Yeah. Even. Even the people who have it pretty bad over here still have it pretty good compared to a lot of other people on the planet. Even just the clean water thing.
[13:33]
C
Oh, for sure. Clean water.
[13:35]
B
Realizing that, yeah, that these girls are walking like, you know, 15 miles a day just to bring back buckets of water that are gonna basically make their entire family sick. You know what I mean? And then we just. We bathe in water that. That they would be happy to drink. You know what I mean? Like, that's. Those things are crazy.
[13:55]
C
I do think that's something, you know, we take for granted here. That isn't necessarily sort of a fait accompli. Right. It. It pred. It's predicated on certain things functioning like that the lights always turn on, the water always comes out of the faucet. That wasn't my experience. When we lived in Africa, I had a headlamp because we would go weeks without power sometimes, and then all of our food were spoil, and then there would be days we had no running water because the water, you need the power to run the water from the water tank. So you would run out of water. Sometimes I'd be in the hospital filthy and come home so filthy I just want to jump in the shower. And no water is in the faucet. So just things like that, that we, you know, of course, we take it for granted. We don't have any other experience. There's no shame in that or shade in that. But my experience has taught me different things. And so I don't take for granted that there's, you know, running water and power and things like that.
[14:48]
B
Yeah. Transformative experience, I'm sure. So you, what was the gap, the timeline here when you get back stateside? You mentioned that you were still going back once a quarter. When did the wellness facility come into play?
[15:04]
C
It started 10 years ago. So we've been around for 10 years, and there wasn't, there was maybe a year gap in between the two. I sort of was doing some real reflecting and deciding. It was a good time to transition out of that. There were things in my life that made it more difficult for me to be gone. The amount that I was gone, you know, I was in Africa, you know, a month, and then I was traveling monthly, internationally, doing a lot of sort of advocacy for cancer in Africa. And it just became clear it was a good time to transition. And that all came to a really beautiful sort of resolution and opened the door for what was next. And so it was about a year.
[15:41]
B
Okay, got it. And then why, why wellness? What, what, what got you thinking about the four, the four moon spa?
[15:48]
C
I think for me, I've always been a person who's, you know, one, entrepreneurial and two, service has always been important to me. I've always wanted to do something that had impact. You know, if I was going to put energy into something, I wanted it to be beyond just, just me. I, I, you know, I love resources. I think money is a great way to solve problems and keep your life, you know, happy and functioning in a really good way. But for me, there needed to be another reason. It's just my wiring. And so I just thought, how can I do something that is, you know, take another step back? Another thought that I was thinking at the time was community. You know, when you're an expat, In a place like Uganda, you're really close with your community, and, you know everybody. And, you know, my phone would literally ring if there's a car accident, and they're like, who has this blood type? So we can get this person stabilized to medevac them. It was that real community dependence. And I also left at a really interesting time. So when I left, there was no such thing as social media. And it came back four years into it and was like, whoa. It was really. I felt like such a Martian. There were words I had never heard, I'd never heard, you know, you know, the. The language at that time was like, I'll tweet you, or what is everyone talking about? And I also noticed everyone. Like, you'd go to a restaurant and everyone was on their phones, and there just felt like this disconnect to me, and I was really trying to understand it. But for me, I just think people need each other. And sort of this loneliness epidemic we've identified outside of COVID is a real nod to something that I was experiencing, you know, back in 2012, 2013, when I came back, and I just felt, you know, everyone was on their phones and sort of isolated, and I was really craving community. And so I just thought, how can I create a space that is there for people? You know, can meet people where they are, can, you know, create. You know, obviously we do. We do have a spa, so there's all that sort of beauty and wellness. But we also have a group of healers that we work with. We do community events, we do classes, we do workshops. There's just a whole host of reasons for people to come. We do concerts and comedy nights. So just this whole host of reasons for people to come out and be together and just meet people and help them, whether it's, you know, they need support in whatever way they need it. And it just seemed like, for me, it was like a nice next step, like, a little less intense than, you know, pediatric oncology.
[18:07]
B
Yeah. Tell me. Tell me a little bit about some of the struggles or obstacles that stand in the way of a wellness facility like this. And like I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, you know, obviously, we try to help people figure out ways to make more money here on the show. And one of those industries that is pretty profitable that's taking off, that has a really strong future, based on the data that we have, is the wellness space. So if somebody's sitting there thinking, like, you know what? I've always been thinking about this, you know what I mean? Like, A spa, a place to, you know, there's a sauna and there's good recovery area and this, what, you know, what, what are some of the things that they can expect jumping into a business like this?
[18:43]
C
Yeah, well, I think for us some of the challenges, the first one that pops to mind is Covid because when 90% of what you do is in person, when you have something that's disruptive to that, it's a huge punch. So for us being in California, we were forced to be closed for the better part of two years and that was huge. To go from, you know, to, to like 1% of your revenue was really, really a difficult punch, you know, to come back from. And so, so that's what I would say. And you know, some of the challenges, you know, I think I'll, you know, focus on the second part of your question, which is like just the wellness industry. It's, it's been really interesting to me because you know, wellness is doing so strong and the numbers of where it's going, whether, and there's so many different segments within it. Right. There's a wellness travel and you know, all these different ways you can approach it. But some of the things that are interesting to me that people are recommending people do is sort of our DNA for the last decade. You know, it's in real life, it's community, it's events, it's getting people, you know, to your physical space. And so that's really been gratifying in some ways for us because that's always been what we've tried to do with people. But it, I think it is a fascinating sector and there's a lot of things happening within it. Some good, some maybe not so good or maybe a little more challenging. But I think there's lots of opportunity and a whole host of ways and new things that are coming out all the time. So I like to see too wellness. Like I'm old enough to remember when wellness was kind of fringy. And so I love that, you know, these things are actually, not only are they not fringy, they're sort of a, you know, a very strong sector in an otherwise sort of confusing economy.
[20:24]
A
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[21:33]
B
what about, what about things like logistics here? Like, you know, build out costs and insurance and lease space and I see you guys are pretty, pretty close to the beach out there and Encinitas, you know, can you talk a little bit about the importance of the right location and what services you're going to offer at first and then maybe we can expand to these services but let's do that later. Let's focus on these ones now. These high, these are higher revenue. You get the profit quicker. Can you give us like a breakdown of as much as you can on the number side of things and what people could inspect jumping into a business like this?
[22:07]
C
I really think it depends on your goals. Like do you want to be a spa? Are you a wellness center? What are you looking to do? And that dictates the property. So for us we didn't want to just be a spa. We wanted to have, you know, events and you know, concerts and big things. So we are, we do have about an acre right across the street from the beach in Encinitas. So pretty lucky. And we have like a koi pond at a waterfall and we brought Balinese ballets out that are in the waterfall so we can do outdoor services in those.
[22:37]
B
So you guys really purchased that property?
[22:39]
C
No, we're in the, we're, we're ready to, so that's what we've been working for. So we definitely had a lease. And so for us, I would also say too, you know, if you're in a service based business, one of the things to consider in your goals is the fact that those margins are smaller, you know, so you're splitting it with your providers and things like that. So you really have to look at what is the actual cost. I, I do think that people can oversimplify wellness. You know, we've had some therapists, you know, early on go, oh gosh, I'm going to start my own space and then come back once they realize, gosh, I have to have a website, I have to have a booking system, I have to have insurance, I have to have a cleaning service, I have to have a laundry service, I have to. There's a lot of logistical things that go into it and expenses that go into it that are non negotiable. You know, you cannot have linens, you cannot have it be very clean and all of those things. So I think really leaning into what you want to accomplish with your space and you know, and what kinds, you know, there's longevity, there's, you know, sauna at places, there's like, you know. So I really think it depends on what you're trying to do and what kind of space, you know, you feel passionate about putting the time and effort into creating.
[23:48]
B
Have you guys added any sort of product services skus that were surprising to you in terms of profitability or revenue, like where you were, you're like, ah, maybe, you know, let's try this out, see how it goes. And then it was like, wow, this is doing really well. We should do more of this.
[24:01]
C
Yeah. We're in the early stages of our product line, which we decided to create in part kind of came out of COVID and really realizing, oh my gosh, people are asking us if they could sneak in and we could treat them anyway. We have all these people who are like really appreciating sort of the benefits of working with us and we can't do anything. And so we started thinking, how can we create, you know, products for people to sort of accomplish some of these things they do at the spa at home. So we always say we have experiences at the spa and we do ritual products for home. And we started that with we kind of have our products broken out to. It's called the Evoke Collection, which is our at home ritual products. And then we have, I guess you call it like merch, where we have an angel number series of sweatshirts and T shirts. And those really surprised us. Those sold out immediately. We really didn't market them, we didn't put them. I think we did an Instagram post and sold out of our first three runs like immediately. So people really like our merch, which has been fun and nice and I love seeing it. People send us pictures of themselves, like all over. And that's a really fun way to see ourselves out in the world. And then the products we just launched really recently. So because we do have a physical space that gives us some business advantages, I think in that, yeah, we can use our, or not use our. We work with our guests almost like focus group. So we would, you know, create things and put them in, you know, integrate them into treatments, put them in the shop and see how people responded to them. You know, talk to some of our more regulars about like, what do you want to see us create both on the service side and on the product side. How can we sort of work together to evolve this in a way that's serving our customers? So everything we do is really this organic extension of something that we've experienced that we want or that's missing in the market or that our customers are asking for. And so that I think is a great way to build, if you're building, you know, into something, you know, your, your clients want from you, that's really helpful. So we, we launched what we consider like the core of every ritual, which is candle, incense, a journal, some tea, a bath. So I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Just like a little core thing. It's like what do I, you know, and then from out from that we have plans for, you know, other drops that we'll do over the, you know, couple of years.
[26:13]
B
What about marketing? How do you go about customer acquisition for a company like this? Are you, are you doing any paid channels or is it mostly organic? How does that.
[26:21]
C
We've really grown organically primarily. So we do have a, you know, a marketing team. We have marketing and PR and a social media person. And then we kind of look at our. I do almost everything that we do as marketing, you know, and because we have a physical space, we're drawing people in. So we've had an enormous amount of media which we're really grateful for. We've been in, you know, goop and sunset and we win a lot of awards and some of which, you know, actually all of the awards we didn't, none of them were pay to play. We didn't seek them out. We're, you know, we're just getting them. And because our space is beautiful, we are sort of spoiled with user generated content, which is huge because if you did, we, we've discussed. And we're probably going to start doing this but historic. We haven't done paid advertising really, but playing. Putting paid advertising against user generated content is a really great strategy. And one I think is effective just in general, whatever your industry is, because that's like, it just means a lot when someone is talking about you. And it's, you know, there's an authenticity there and there's like a realness that you, you know, can't fake yourself. And so it's a beautiful thing.
[27:26]
B
Yeah. Built in social proof.
[27:28]
C
Exactly, exactly. And we, we get, I mean, because our space is beautiful and people fall in love with it and our team is so, so welcoming. I think there is one other. I think there's a differentiator for us too in the space. In that a lot of wellness spaces are slick and it's like marble and underground lighting and it's like you almost feel like I'm not, I have to be perfect to even go to this space. So there's like, for, for a lot of people, myself included, there's like a slight alienation in that kind of an energy in a space where that's not what we wanted to create. We wanted to create something that is very welcoming and inclusive and everybody comes there immediately. You feel your nervous system kind of start to calm down and you settle in. And my team is incredibly warm and solicitous of the guests. And so because people tend to, and we have people coming, you know, whether they're, it's either upset emotionally or they're working out on the back end of a healing journey. And our team really scoops people up, pays attention to where they are and we do, we always call it surprise and delights. We do all these little extra things to love on our guests. And so I think that mix of having a really beautiful physical space that is unique and a team that just really loves on people, we get so much user generated content and that's really helped us to grow.
[28:40]
B
And yeah, Leith, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. I know you're a very busy person. I don't take that time for granted. Where can people go to get more from you and everything you're working on?
[28:50]
C
You can Find Me and Four Moons on Instagram and on LinkedIn and our website, our Instagram. If you're looking for what we're doing on Instagram for Four Moons is a great place to sister.
[29:00]
B
Perfect. Love it. And if you happen to be in the San Diego area, then stop by the facility, give it a quick visit. I think I, I was just in San Diego a couple weeks ago, but I think I'll be back in a couple of weeks as well. So email me. Yeah, yeah, we'll do. We'll do. Yeah, my. My wife should be coming with me, so I'm sure she would. She would not mind a spa day, I'm sure. So.
[29:19]
C
Yeah, well, we'd love to host.
[29:22]
B
Well, appreciate you taking the time. Leath everybody else. Tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there. Here in the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.