INTERVIEW | Make Money by Disrupting Yourself and Embracing Career Reinvention with Whitney Johnson

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Travis Makes Money
Episode: INTERVIEW | Make Money by Disrupting Yourself and Embracing Career Reinvention with Whitney Johnson
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Whitney Johnson
Date: May 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Travis welcomes Whitney Johnson, recognized as one of the top management thinkers by Thinkers50 and Inc. Magazine. Whitney shares her remarkable journey from a secretary on Wall Street to equity analyst, investment fund co-founder with Clayton Christensen (disruptive innovation theory), and bestselling author. The conversation centers around career reinvention, embracing disruption, and practical advice for increasing your personal and financial growth. This episode is filled with actionable wisdom on navigating nontraditional paths, building resilience, and treating everyone with dignity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Whitney’s Unconventional Journey on Wall Street

• Background: Whitney started as a secretary despite having a college degree in music and wanting to be a flight attendant.
  • “I actually graduated from college with a degree in music. I play piano.” – Whitney, [02:06]
  • “I was a music major, didn’t have very much confidence, was a woman—I got a job as a secretary working for a Wall Street stockbroker... there was no plan to be on Wall Street.” – Whitney, [02:35]
• Turning Point: Observing colleagues motivated her to take business classes at night and eventually move into investment banking.
  • “I need to throw down my pom poms.” – Whitney, [03:15]
  • She highlights the rarity of moving from secretarial positions to investment banking, especially as a woman at that time.

2. Lessons from Starting at the “Bottom”

• Whitney reflected on learning humility and pattern recognition by starting in a low-level position.
  • “I think I learned what it’s like to be at the bottom of the totem pole... how the person treats you as a secretary is really a measure of who they are.” – Whitney, [03:57]

3. On Respect and Dignity at Work

• Both Travis and Whitney emphasize the importance of treating everyone with respect, regardless of their position.
  • “One of my values is really to treat everybody I interact with with dignity, no matter who it is.” – Whitney, [09:12]
  • “Even if you are this selfish taker of a personality, it still doesn’t make sense to treat people like that when the secretary has the ear of the CEO.” – Travis, [08:16]
• Extend respect up and down the hierarchy: “It’s important to treat people with dignity who might be more senior than you... at that point you’re not treating them with dignity either.” – Whitney, [09:53]

4. Career Disruption and Serendipity

• Whitney describes how an unexpected transition into equity research, after being “voluntold,” became the best thing for her career.
  • “Sometimes we end up in a place in our career that we’re like, ‘I did not want to be here’... but sometimes you get disrupted and sometimes that’s the best possible thing that can happen to you.” – Whitney, [13:07]
• She encourages listeners to remain open and adaptable, taking the “next appropriate action.”
  • “Success is like a spiral staircase… take the next step… if you don’t ever take the first step, you can’t see the next step.” – Travis, [13:33]

5. Applying Disruptive Innovation to Investing and People

• Whitney co-founded an investment fund with Clayton Christensen, applying disruptive innovation theory to the stock market.
  • “It was very exciting, especially to work with Clay Christensen... to apply theories of disruptive innovation to investing.” – Whitney, [14:24]
• Example trade: “...long Netflix and short Blockbuster.” – Whitney, [14:41]
• Whitney’s current focus is on “the human side of disruption,” helping people and organizations manage change.
  • “I’m actually more interested in the momentum of people than I am of stocks.” – Whitney, [15:14]

6. Helping Companies Embrace Disruption

• Whitney introduces the S Curve framework for understanding and managing growth and disruption.
  • “Part of being able to move through disruption is to be able to name the feelings that you’re having... it frees up your executive functioning skills to solve the problem.” – Whitney, [16:04]

7. Work-Life Integration and Focus

• Whitney, whose children are now adults, stresses the need for boundaries: prioritizing sleep, exercise, and family time.
  • “Instead of trying to remove things, I’m trying to add more of the things I want to do and to do it incrementally... what does that look like to create more spaciousness?” – Whitney, [17:52]
• Travis highlights the critical role of focus in today’s opportunity-rich, distraction-heavy environment.
  • “Focus is the superpower of the next generation. It will be the core differentiator between people who figure this thing out and people who do not.” – Travis, [18:57]

8. The Purpose and Power of Podcasting

• Whitney’s podcast is currently on pause after eight years, but she discusses its value in sharing knowledge, refining ideas for books, and giving back.
  • “There are lots of people who will never decide or afford to work with my company... a podcast is a way to share ideas and bless people’s lives in a way I couldn’t otherwise.” – Whitney, [22:04]

9. Should the Average Person Pick Stocks?

• Whitney advises index funds for most, but encourages personal investment in brands you know and love for an added sense of ownership.
  • “Absolutely do index funds. But I also think... when you find a brand or a company that you really love... to then own a stake in that company... I would encourage people to do that, because there’s a sense of ownership.” – Whitney, [23:04]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I need to throw down my pom poms.” – Whitney Johnson, [03:15]
• “Sometimes you get disrupted and sometimes that’s the best possible thing that can happen to you.” – Whitney Johnson, [13:07]
• “I’m actually more interested in the momentum of people than I am of stocks.” – Whitney Johnson, [15:14]
• “Success is like a spiral staircase... if you don’t ever take the first step, you can’t see the next step.” – Travis Chappell, [13:33]
• “Focus is the superpower of the next generation.” – Travis Chappell, [18:57]
• “There are lots of people who will never decide or afford to work with my company... a podcast is a way to share ideas and bless people’s lives.” – Whitney Johnson, [22:04]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:06] – Whitney’s background and first job as a secretary
• [03:57] – Lessons learned from starting at the bottom
• [09:12] – On treating everyone with dignity at work
• [13:07] – Being “disrupted” and embracing unexpected change
• [14:24] – Founding the investment fund with Clayton Christensen
• [16:04] – S Curve framework and emotional agility during disruption
• [17:52] – Setting boundaries, self-care, and focus strategies
• [18:57] – Travis on focus as a differentiator in today’s world
• [22:04] – Podcasting as a tool for learning, connection, and giving back
• [23:04] – Whitney’s investing advice for the average person

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Where to Find Whitney Johnson

• Podcast Archive: 400+ episodes of The Disrupt Yourself Podcast, available online.
• LinkedIn: She is highly active and engages regularly.
• Email: [e-mail]

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Summary:
This episode is not just a story of personal reinvention but a toolkit for those looking to disrupt themselves, grow in their careers, and learn to make more money by leveraging mindset shifts, adaptability, and respect—for yourself and others. Whitney’s insights, alongside Travis’s engaging energy, make this required listening for anyone facing transitions or seeking practical inspiration for financial and personal growth.

Transcript

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[Travis (Podcast Host)]

what's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, I have a new friend, Whitney Johnson. Whitney is one of the top management thinkers in the world according to Thinkers50 and Inc. Magazine. She started her career as a secretary on Wall street and disrupted herself to become an award winning equity analys, then co founded an investment fund with Harvard's Clayton Christensen, the father of disruptive innovation theory. She's also Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Disrupt Yourself, Smart Growth and Build an A Team. She also has her own podcast, the Disrupt Yourself Podcast, where she's had people like Brene Brown and many, many others on the show. So she knows a thing or two about this space, about money in general and I'm excited to have her on. Whitney, welcome to the show.

[Whitney Johnson]

Travis. I'm delighted to be here. And wow, you are really good at reading bios. I'm very impressed.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Well, you know when you think this might be like my, my thousand and fifteenth interview or something like that, I'm

[Whitney Johnson]

in the reps. Yeah.

One.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

One or two. One or two. I appreciate you taking the time, Whitney. I know you're very busy person, so let's go ahead and jump right in here. You clearly did not have a traditional path in this space starting off as a secretary. So tell me about that path. Initial position. Did you go to school for this initially? Were you trying to be sort of in the investment banking Wall street world and just didn't see a path to it? How did this come about?

[Whitney Johnson]

Not at all. So I actually graduated from college with a degree in music. I play piano.

Oh wow. And I had gotten married and my husband and I had moved to New York and I actually wanted to be a flight attendant but they wouldn't hire me.

American Airlines thank you very much. Which I'm actually grateful for.

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[Travis (Podcast Host)]

That was a real thank you at this point.

[Whitney Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. Now I have like 2 million miles on American Airlines.

But anyway, so my husband and I, we had moved there and I am

absolutely terrified to be in New York

City because I had grown up in San Jose in California. And so for the first week, I would actually not leave our apartment by myself, but we needed to eat, so I had to go out of the apartment and get a job. And because I was a music major, because I didn't have very much confidence, because I was a woman, I got a job as a secretary working for a Wall street stockbroker. And so there was no plan to be on Wall Street. But what I will say is that as I went to work every day and I sat across this bullpen of young, aspiring masters of the universe, if you will, I saw them saying, you know, let's open up this stock account. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this is a good idea or throw down your pom poms and get in the game. And at first I'm offended because I was a cheerleader in high school, but as I sat there and to them say this, day after day after day, I thought, I need to throw down my pom poms. And so I started taking business courses at night. Accounting, finance, economics. And eventually had a boss who believed in me and moved me from being a secretary to an investment banker. And for anybody who knows Wall street, you know, even today, that doesn't happen very often. So I was, I was very fortunate.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Very atypical path, for sure. What did you learn being a secretary in that type of an environment? I assume it was wildly fast paced and a lot of work.

[Whitney Johnson]

Ye, that's a great question. What did I learn being a secretary? I think I learned what it's like to be at the bottom of the totem pole. And when you're at the bottom of the totem pole, you observe all sorts of things and you have all sorts of interactions with people. And there's a really interesting litmus test of how the person treats you as a secretary is really a measure of who they are. And so I would be able to say, oh, this person treated me this way. They're being really nice to my boss. Can we, can we trust them to the same degree as we could if they were also respectful of the person who's the most junior on the team?

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Totally. Yeah. It's, it's so unfortunate that that happens, but it's also to me it is.

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[Travis (Podcast Host)]

the height of stupidity and poor thinking. Like, it just is. Like there's no, like, if you even think about it from their point of view, like even if you are this like selfish taker of a personality, it still doesn't make sense to treat people like that when like the secretary has the ear of the CEO, you know, like, like the gatekeeper has the thing that you want the most. Why would. It doesn't even make sense from like a, from a selfish standpoint. It doesn't even make sense. But I think people just get it in their minds that, well, I'm up here and you're down here and go fetch me some water type of a thing, rather than treating people with dignity and respect, regardless of the position that they hold. But it also probably speaks to why you've been able to be so successful and I assume also informed the way that you treat a lot of the people that work with you.

[Whitney Johnson]

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I don't do it perfectly, but I do. One of my values is really to

treat everybody I interact with with dignity, no matter who it is. And it's actually really interesting is because I think there's an element of not only treating people with dignity that who are lower on the totem pole than you are from a hierarchical standpoint, but one of the things that I've also learned is it's important to treat people with dignity who might be more senior than you. I think sometimes we forget or view our manager or someone who's more senior in the pecking order across the broad universe as almost someone to, as an object that they can help you gain power if you're in their good graces. And at that point you're not treating

them with dignity either.

And so it was a really good lesson of like, how do I make sure that I am treating everyone with dignity regardless of what their social standing or their, their standing is within an

organization or just period.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, well, it will serve you better in your career goals anyway to treat people like that, even if it is in the context of this, this person has more authority or they have whatever, higher status within this organization. If you, if you, like you said, if you begin to treat people like objects, then it teaches them how to treat you. If you can treat people like people, then they tend to treat you like a person as well. And I found extreme value in connecting with really high level people, even on my show, in being able to just see the person on the other end. For me, on the other end of the conversation or on the opposite end of the mic, I can just. You meet enough people, you start going like, oh, everybody, we're all just people.

[Whitney Johnson]

You got that pattern recognition thing going, right?

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Exactly, exactly. We're all just people. We're all just trying to figure it out, just trying to do our best. And if you can treat people at those higher positions as though they are a person, which they are, then you will inevitably stand out because a lot of other people are treating them like the, the object that's going to help them attain their goals. So you tell me the timeline here. What was the, the time, the, the, the amount of time that you were secretary until you had this boss who saw something in you and decided to give this opportunity?

[Whitney Johnson]

Right. So I, I started as a secretary in 1989.

And then so this is a while ago and I'm like, wait, how many years is it? Anyway, a while ago.

And I then had, it took about three years. So in 1992, I first became an investment banking analyst. And that was so exciting and so thrilling. And I did that for about four years. And then I had my first child, my son David. And at that point I actually. There's a good story. You want me to tell you the quick story here?

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Please.

[Whitney Johnson]

There's a good story. So at that point, my boss has just gotten fired. It's 1996 and they probably would have fired me as well, but I had really good performance reviews and I was pregnant. So they're like, what are we going to do with her?

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And if I've ever heard one.

[Whitney Johnson]

Yeah.

So I'm like, so it's interesting because

there wasn't anything to do in investment banking. Like if I wanted to do something, they didn't want me and if they wanted me, I didn't want them. So it was definitely a, you know, a dating mismatch. And so I had this opportunity to actually move into equity research, which was at that point in time you didn't move from banking to equity research. Again, if you're thinking about the hierarchy, you don't do that. But what was so interesting is that I, I got there so I sort of voluntold into that, into that role. But it turns out that that was a career maker for me. Moving into equity research, I was really good. I was good at building financial models, but I was even better at picking stocks because I was able to spot momentum. And so I think this, the interesting story for me here is that sometimes we end up in a place in our career that we're like, I did not want to be here. Like, I talk all about disrupting ourselves, but sometimes you get disrupted and sometimes that's the best possible thing that can happen to you because that's place that you didn't want to be, that you didn't know about, that you're just kicking and screaming. It can turn out to be a career maker if you will let it.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, if you will let it. Yeah. That's why I always say success is like a spiral staircase. You know, you can take the next step and it's like if you. But if you don't ever take the first step, you can't see the next step. Right. Like, that's why you can't just sit there and manifest it and dream about it and hope it comes to you. So well, you can do all of that and that's great. And, but also you still gotta move up to the next step. You know what I mean? I love it. Next appropriate action. And then the next step will potentially reveal itself in that action. Whitney, you've now co founded your own investment fund. Was that something that you ever thought was in the cards for you?

[Whitney Johnson]

Yes.

So I, I did co found the investment fund with Clay Christensen and his son Matt. And unfortunately Clay passed away about five years ago. I never intended to start an investment fund.

So it was interesting to go from

being on the sell side to the buy side. And very exciting, especially to work with Clay Christiansen to take these wonderful, magnificent theories of disruptive innovation and to apply them to investing. And not only to look at stocks

that we thought were going to disrupt, but also stocks that we thought were

going to get disrupted. So one of the trades that we did this is like in 2008, 2009, was to go, you know, long Netflix and short Blockbuster. Right. So those kinds of interesting trades. So that was very exciting to do. But what's interesting, Travis, is I did that for about five or six years, and then I disrupted myself again and said, you know what? I'm actually more interested in the momentum of people than I am of stocks. And so my firm today is focused not on investing, but on the human side of disruption. And how do you help people and individuals and teams navigate through all the disruption that's happening, of which there is much today, given geopolitical, given technological changes. And it's very interesting and very rewarding to be able to have moved from the money piece to be making money on the human side of it.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. And so this is your work now, where you've worked with companies like Amazon and Intermountain Health and massive organizations. What do you do when you go into a company like that? What's like day one, day one?

[Whitney Johnson]

Well, it depends on what they need. So there's always that. That opening question of, okay, we've got some disruption that's either happening to us or we want to happen. And in particular right now, people are saying, okay, there's so much.

And it feels.

I feel so upended. And so our job is to introduce a framework, the S Curve framework, to help people understand what growth looks like and what it feels like. Because part of being able to move through disruption is to be able to name the feelings that you're having. Because once you do that, then your brain stops dealing with a threat response of like, this feels really uncomfortable, if you can name this feels uncomfortable. It frees up your executive functioning skills to be able to deal with and solve the problem. And so that's the first thing we do, is to teach people that. Sometimes it looks like executive coaching, sometimes it looks like a leadership audit of the executive team to help them work together better. Sometimes it's a massive transformational project of leadership development across an organization. But the common theme is always disruption is happening. How do we help stabilize people by helping them understand what change looks like and feels like.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

More importantly, how do you manage your schedule these days? Whitney, we talked about you. I mean, you're running this organization. You're a mom. You are. You've written three different books. Now you have your own podcast. There's no shortage of things that can pull your time and attention. How do you manage that?

[Whitney Johnson]

It's a really good question.

So the good news for me is

that my children are now in their

20s, so I'm not needing to do anything sort of full time, parenting wise.

I. I do work a lot.

So that's one of the goals that I have right now is how do I create more spaciousness in my life,

Even though I love my work and I feel very called to do it. But one of the things I've been really focused on over the last couple of years is really recognizing that if I will create some boundaries, like I'm

going to get enough sleep every night,

like I have my whoop and I track my sleep. And I've been very deliberate about getting better sleep.

And so part of it hasn't been so much trying to work less, but also push against the work by making sure I create time to sleep, making sure I create time to exercise, making sure I take time to take Sunday off to be able to be with my family. I don't do that very well every week, but last Sunday I did. So I'm going to take credit for that. And so I guess the answer is to. As you're trying to. Instead of trying to remove things, I'm trying to add more of the things that I want to do and to do it incrementally. I'm very a big fan of 5% better. Obviously we have atomic habits. 1% better, 5% better. What does that look like to create more spaciousness? And the second thing that I would say, Travis, is I've been really working on work in progress is to focus on one thing, do it well, and then go to the next thing.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Focus is I've been feel like I've been preaching this for the last few months here, but what I've been telling people is in my opinion, focus is the superpower of the next generation. It will be the core differentiator between people who figure this thing out.

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[Travis (Podcast Host)]

jobs and people who do not. Because there has been, yes, there are certain, you know, broader macroeconomic trends that are alarming and that are, you know, not exactly what we were hoping for as a generation when we came out of college and you know what I mean. And of course there's some things that are, that are pushing against people's ability to be economically viable. But there's also never ever been more opportunity. There's never been more dogs Fingertips.

[Whitney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

So the only. But there's also never been more distraction. There's there because of the volume of opportunity that exists. There's also no shortage of things to be distracted by. And so I'm just a huge believer that focus is like the core superpower of the people who are going to figure it out over the next decade or so. I'm, I'm curious about your, your podcast. Where does that fit into all the things that you're working on? Is this more like a passion type of a thing? Does, is it, is it helpful for bringing in clients like why, why do the podcast?

[Whitney Johnson]

It's a great question. So my podcast is currently on pause. I did it for eight straight years and I put it on pause while I worked on my current book, which

I finally turned into the publisher.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Good for you. Congrats.

[Whitney Johnson]

Thank you so much.

But to answer your question, Travis, I think the reason I initially started it

is I really like to interview people. I think it's interesting and I'm sure you've experienced this. You said you've done well over a thousand of these interviews.

There's something very special and precious about

that moment of being able to have a one on one conversation with someone. And so that was one of the reasons why I started to do that. I think another re not. I think another reason why I decided

to do this is certainly there has been more content ideas, et cetera, for

books that I'm writing. But a third reason is that there

are lots of people who will never

decide or afford to work with my company. And part of being able to do a podcast and to have this conversation. Conversation is a way to share these ideas and to bless people's lives in a way that, because it's free in a way that I couldn't otherwise. So part of it's just because it's really fun to do. Part of it's because it is, it helps kind of grow and it's intellectually stimulating.

But part of it's just to be

able to give back.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Well, I love that. Whitney, thank you for giving back and sharing some time with us today on our, on our podcast and sharing some with our audience as well. Last thing before I let you go, you, as someone who spent a large portion of your career picking stocks and investing, what does does the average person. I think I know the answer to the question, but I will let you answer it. Does the average.

[Whitney Johnson]

Per.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Should the average person be picking stocks or should the average person be putting their money into some sort of an index fund and letting it ride?

[Whitney Johnson]

What am I going to say, Travis?

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

I think you're going to say the second one is the index fund thing, you know.

[Whitney Johnson]

Yes. And I think, you know, I grew up on reading Peter lynch, who wrote one up on Wall street. And he, he talked, he was a very famous Fidelity manager. And one of the things he said is buy stocks that, you know. So I think absolutely do index funds. But I also think there's something very engaging and fun and interesting in when you find a brand or a company that you really love and you're a consumer of that brand to then own a stake in that company that you're going to hold for a really long time. I would encourage people to do that as well because there's a sense of ownership there that obviously you can create value, but it also just makes it more meaningful.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah. As long as you're willing to hold onto it for a long time. That's always the thing that we caveat it with is like, do your thing

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and have fun and play with it

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

if you want to, but pick companies you really, really love that you use all the time, that you believe in long term and that you're going to hold for a long time. It's not a matter of like, let me see if I can make, you know, my year's salary this month by putting all of my savings in. Yeah, right. Charlie Munger, I think, famously had 30, 40% of his portfolio in Costco stock or something like that. So he practice what, what you're preaching, right now too. So, Whitney, I appreciate you for taking the time where can people go to get more from you?

[Whitney Johnson]

Where can they go to get more from me? Well, probably the best place right now. Certainly they can email me. Whitney the disruptionadvisors. Com I'm I do have 400 episodes of my podcast. If you do want to go listen to some of those episodes, they're still quite timeless and interesting. And then obviously you can connect to me on LinkedIn where I'm I'm quite active.

[Travis (Podcast Host)]

Whitney, thank you so much. I know you're a really busy person. I don't take your time for granted. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Catch you next time. Peace.

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