INTERVIEW | Make Money by Leading Through Crisis with Buddy Clay

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money – INTERVIEW | Make Money by Leading Through Crisis with Buddy Clay

Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Buddy Clay (Founder and CEO, New Hope Healthcare Institute)
Date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell sits down with Buddy Clay to explore the intersection of entrepreneurship, crisis leadership, and personal transformation. Buddy shares his journey from aspiring pro basketball player to behavioral health entrepreneur, delves into his dual battles with stage three and four cancer, and highlights how facing mortality reshaped his business and leadership philosophy. The conversation is candid and inspiring, focusing on actionable principles for making money, leading through adversity, and the critical role of community in recovery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Buddy's First Entrepreneurial Experience

• Landscaping Roots: Buddy recounts the thrill of making his first dollar, initially from a lucky $150 win on horse racing, then more sustainably through a landscaping business inherited from his family.

  “It was great because I worked on my own schedule… and it was kind of instant gratification too, because most of the time you would get cash in hand at the end of the week.” (Buddy, 01:14)

From Dreams of Basketball to Behavioral Health

• Athletic Aspirations & Pivot: Buddy initially pursued basketball, even touring in Germany. When it didn’t pan out, he felt lost but eventually leaned on his psychology degree.
• Accidental Entry into Behavioral Health: Moved to California on a whim, landing an entry-level position at a teen behavioral health company, where he fell in love with the work.

  “Part of my story is just like really there is some luck involved…” (Buddy, 04:16)

The Crisis that Sparked Entrepreneurship

• Cancer Diagnosis & Life Shift: At 32, Buddy was diagnosed with stage three melanoma. Relocating to Tennessee to be closer to family, this health crisis catalyzed his move from employee to founder of New Hope Healthcare Institute.

  “The cancer piece of it made me kind of shift gears completely because it was scary. I had a little girl at the time and my wife and I didn’t know what to do.” (Buddy, 07:30)

• Building New Hope: With support from his cousin, Buddy built an addiction and mental health recovery center from the ground up, filling a regional gap in Knoxville, TN.

Second Cancer Battle & Holistic Healing

• Stage Four Melanoma & Radical Choices: After another diagnosis, Buddy chose holistic treatments, facing skepticism from his doctors.

  “The surgeon told me, word for word, don’t you be crazy and go down to a clinic in Mexico like some of these people do, you’ll end up dying... so that was one reason I was like, okay, I think I want to go the other route.” (Buddy, 14:02)

• Trusting His Team: Forced by illness to step back from day-to-day operations, Buddy saw his leadership team prove themselves, turning a perceived weakness—his absence—into a strength.

New Hope Healthcare Institute: Mission & Impact

• Company Purpose: Focuses on addiction recovery and mental health, especially for those at risk of suicide or overdose.

  “There’s not many careers you could work in where you explicitly can save someone’s life besides a surgeon on an ER table. That’s what New Hope Healthcare Institute is.” (Buddy, 16:19)

The Power of Community in Recovery

• Community as Central to Recovery: Community, not willpower, is the antidote to addiction and loneliness—mirrored in both patient stories and leadership experience.

  “The opposite of addiction is community… it is lonely. How’s the lesson I learned? I didn’t realize you work in a building with, I have 55 employees, but they’re employees. I don’t have a relationship with them and I don’t have a community. And it’s tough.” (Buddy, 17:29)

• Rat Park Experiment: Travis and Buddy discuss the seminal study on addiction, reinforcing the importance of social connection.

  “When in isolation, the rat always, 100% of the time would engage in the cocaine laced water… then when they put them in the rat park… they never became addicted and died from it.” (Travis, 19:07)

Buddy’s Evolving Mission

• Quality over Scale: After rapid early growth, Buddy is now focused on maintaining quality at New Hope while considering expanding into holistic treatment and sharing his story on a broader stage.
• The Book: Built in the Fire: Buddy’s memoir and business guide details his crisis leadership journey and the tangible strategies that emerged from adversity.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Doctor’s Dismissal of Holistic Care:

  “Don’t you be crazy and go down to a clinic in Mexico like some of these people do. You’ll end up dying.” (Doctor to Buddy, 14:07)

• On the Power of Community:

  “The opposite of addiction is community… you work in a building with 55 employees, but they’re employees. I don’t have a relationship with them and I don’t have a community.” (Buddy, 17:29)

• On Building Something After Crisis:

  “I was forced [by cancer] to step away… and my leadership team has been unbelievable over the past year and a half. Seeing that happen—I don’t know if it ever would have happened if I didn’t get forced into taking a step away.” (Buddy, 12:02)

• On Career Fulfillment:

  “There’s not many careers you could work in where you explicitly can save someone’s life.” (Buddy, 16:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Buddy’s First Business Dollar & Early Hustles: 01:26–03:04
• Transition from Basketball to Behavioral Health: 03:04–04:16
• The Move to Entrepreneurship (Cancer Catalyst and Building New Hope): 07:28–09:12
• Diagnosis & Decision to Pursue Holistic Treatment: 09:16–16:11
• Mission of New Hope & Saving Lives Through Recovery: 16:11–17:21
• The Critical Role of Community: 17:21–20:25
• Personal and Professional Goals Moving Forward: 20:25–21:44
• Closing & Where to Find Buddy: 21:44–21:55

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Where to Find Buddy Clay

• Website: buddyclay.com (21:44)
• Book: “Built in the Fire” available through his website

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Summary

This episode is an honest exploration of adversity as a catalyst for entrepreneurship and leadership. Buddy Clay’s journey demonstrates how crisis can refine both character and business, and how building wealth is not just about money—but about creating the freedom and opportunity to serve others. The message: Community and connection are essential, both in business and in life.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis what is going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's a mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, I have a new friend of mine, Buddy Clay. Buddy is the founder and CEO of New Hope Healthcare Institute, a behavioral health and addiction recovery facility in Knoxville, Tennessee. At 32, he was diagnosed with stage three cancer and at 36 it came back as stage four. He retreat. He treated it completely holistically, kept running his company and came out. The other side is a different leader. He's the author of Built in. The Two Battles at Once, a memoir on what it actually takes to lead through crisis when the crisis is happening to you. Buddy. What's up, dude? Welcome to the show.

[C]

Awesome. That sounded great. Thank you. I gotta remember that intro for a little elevator pitch. Sounded good.

[B]

Good. I'm glad. I'm glad. Well, I wanna, I wanna jump in here, man, and go back to the Be me. The first time that you ever got excited about making a dollar, the first time that you made a dollar and you were like, I can't believe that worked. I can't believe I just made money doing that.

[C]

That's funny. I would say, well, well, two times. One time that's probably not great was when my, my grandfather took me horse horse race betting one time when I was really young, $20 down on a random horse and I, I think I won like 150. And I was like, man, this is great, but I'm professional horse better. Yeah, that's probably not the direction to go, but I had a landscaping company that was kind of passed on to me. My dad did landscaping as a kid and he held onto it throughout when he was an early adult. And then as I was old enough to drive a truck. So I think that was great because I worked on my own schedule, I was able to do as much or as little as I wanted. And it was kind of instant gratification too, because most of the time you would get cash in hand at the end of the week. And that was. That was a great feeling.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding. So was that a feeling that you took into your career? Were you planning on entrepreneurship the whole time? Did you go to school, do something different first?

[C]

I wasn't, so I went to school to play basketball. To be honest, I didn't go to school to learn anything. I ended up doing psychology while I was there. That was what interests me, especially human psychology, which I guess would probably play a role into kind of where I'm at now. But yeah, I went to school, play basketball, see what happened, and then worked a bunch of odd jobs, some social media stuff, a lot of on my own work. So I think that was the entrepreneur thing. It was alongside just like creating my own hours, creating my own schedule. That was something that always felt fairly comfortable to me. And trying to be creative, I think was something that I really leaned into.

[B]

Were you hoping to have like some sort of a career in basketball or was it just like. I just.

[C]

I was, I think I needed. Yeah, I was, I didn't. I wasn't blessed with enough height. I'm. I'm six two. I think if I had a few more inches, I'd be all right. But yeah, the goal was, yeah, I tried to play overseas. I did a tour in Germany at one point to try to get picked up for like a semi pro league and.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Found out shortly there's a lot of great competition out there and I'm not, I'm not quite there yet. So I was humbled. But yeah, that was cool to do that.

[B]

Everybody thinks about the NBA, but there's a lot of people that make a living playing basketball overseas and those.

[C]

There's definitely avenues. A bunch of my buddies did it and it's fun, it's cool. I mean, it's a way to do it. You could be overseas and see different country, play basketball, get paid pretty well, and then, you know, even. I mean, if you're way up there, obviously you can get paid even more than some NBA contracts. So, yeah, it's wild.

[B]

Yeah, so. So obviously that part of the career didn't end up working out. You go over there, you try to make it work. What are you thinking when you come back home and. And realizing that, like, that is not going to be an option for you?

[C]

I had to figure something out. I was getting a little older and I think I was around, I'd say mid-20s at the time. And I didn't really have a career to fall back on. I haven't been working, like I said, just odd jobs, playing basketball when I can. And I didn't have like those steps of finishing college and working my way in a, in a career or a business where I had some sort of resume. So truthfully, I didn't really know what I was going to do. Part of my story is just like really there is some luck involved, I think with everyone. That's the case for a lot of success stories. But I moved to California from New York when I was 25 and didn't know what I was going to do out there. And I ended up taking entry level position in a behavioral health company. It was with teens and adolescents, so it was similar to what I do now, but it was just, I took the lowest job I can get and work my way through that industry in the next four to five years and learned everything I possibly could because I loved it and I loved what the work was doing and I loved this. The owner that was, that I worked under at the time, he was just an awesome dude. And I was like, he seems like he's, he really enjoys what he's doing. And I think that was something that really spoke to me.

[B]

Did you get the job because you knew you wanted to be in that space or did you get the job because you just knew you needed to work and you were taking whatever job?

[C]

I just knew I needed to work. Yeah, that was it. I, I needed a job. I didn't know anything out there. Again, I didn't have a resume that was strong. I had a psychology background, but I took what I can get and I figured this would be a good first stepping stone for me and something that I could learn from. And I, you know, like I said, I quickly worked my way through different areas and just really fell in love with the industry.

[B]

Yeah. What's this one, one reason I really love both the topic of making money, but also entrepreneurship and business in general. Is that it.

[C]

Char broil.

[B]

Especially when compared to something like basketball or whatever sport you're pursuing. There's. It's not a zero sum game, you know, like in, in that world it's pretty much a zero sum game. Like you make it or you don't make it. And if you don't make it, you don't have like to your, you don't have much to fall back on. You know, it's like, well, I'm really good at basketball. But I wasn't good enough to be able to get paid good money to play basketball. So like now what do I do? The only real skill I have is in this area. And like the only potential path forward here is to hope that I get picked up by maybe some team to do be like a shooting coach or to, to get into coaching maybe or something like that. But a lot of times it just ends up being like, oh well, I'm, I guess I'll be a PE teacher and coach high school basketball type of thing. It's like, and, and that's not to say that that's a terrible option just to say that like it's not, it's not going to be the thing that, that, that you can make a lot of money doing. Whereas in business it's not like you build a billion dollar company or you go bankrupt. Like those are the only two options. It's not a zero sum game, you know what I mean? Like you can hit a single and that single can still, you know, take care of you for the rest of your life compared to, compared to any sort of like athletic endeavors and things like that. So, so you work, you work for this other organization, this other person for a few years. Was it, was it then where you decided to start your own thing or did that come later?

[C]

It wasn't. And you touched on it in the intro a little bit. The thing that actually propelled what made me start this was I still, at that point I worked, like I said, throughout the industry. I loved it. I didn't. In the back of my mind, obviously it's always the idea saying I would like to be working for myself or you know, having people work for me and build something that I could actually have more, a bigger part of. But the cancer piece of it made me kind of shift gears completely because it was scary. It was. I had a little girl at the time and my wife and I didn't know what to do. So we, we moved to Tenness because that's where my family was now. And I moved there just to be close because I didn't know what the next year would look like as far as treatment goes and all of my health and all that. So it was just a scary time. And when we came here, there was a lot of fear, but a lot of figuring out to do and thinking about what can I do and what's, what's available. And then the wheel starts spinning. I talked with my, my cousin who's my partner in this business and got with him about the idea there's nothing like this in Tennessee. And Knoxville. He has a program out in California. I worked in the field in California, and I was saying, like, we could definitely make this work, and we both have a huge working knowledge. He knows how to start the business. I know how the help run the clinical side because I worked every avenue of it. So he jumped in with me. He sold me. Yeah, that sounds great. We did some research, and shortly after moving here, I would say about a full year of being here, that we got the business off the ground and started from the ground up. So it was a fairly quick decision because I. I was working as in a. For marketing for a vitamin company when I moved to Tennessee, because, again, I just needed a job. I was like, I'm moving here with my family. Let me get whatever I can. And I hated it. It was just. It was boring. I didn't enjoy it at all. I was, like, staring at the clock. And then I needed to do something different that's more fulfilling, and there's the opportunity. So we started the groundwork and, you know, found location, did everything you do that's involved in starting a business, and the rest was history at that point.

[B]

And when you. You said you were diagnosed, it was stage three.

[C]

Yeah. The first time, Stage three. It was a melanoma. It was just a simple mole I had my whole life that I thought was just a harmless mole in the middle of my back. And it was a lot more than that. So I was glad I got checked out when I did, but it was still pretty scary. Stage three. What.

[B]

What made you go in?

[C]

It's funny enough, I have an amazing group of friends that I meet up with fairly often, guys I've known since high school, and we were on a trip one time in the Poconos, and they saw the mole on my back, and they're like, you gotta promise, get that thing checked out when you get home. It looks a little bit off. Like, it's. It's big. There's like, whatever. Yeah. And they were like, just do it. And I was like, it's been here forever. Like, I don't need to do this. I know it's been there. I've had it since I was a teenager. And they're like, just please promise us you'll go get it checked. And I went. And. And it's crazy because if they didn't, the. The truth of is, I probably wouldn't be here today.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding, man.

[C]

It's wild to think. Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's crazy because it's one of the obviously like big four killers these days. And yeah, the best anecdote, the, the best antidote to it is early is. Is early discovery and preventative care still to this day, you know what I'm saying? And so I encourage so many people. I I small bout with cancer myself a couple years ago and it was like, it was one of those things where it's like, nah, it's not a big deal. You know, I don't need to go get it checked. And then like if you're anything like me too, like I just hate the activity of setting up a doctor appointment and like, oh yeah, 100. It feels like a massive waste of time. And it's like I just, I'm gonna have. Even though I have insurance, I still have to pay them for. I get you got the co pay just to be there and be present with the doctor. They're inevitably going to show up 45 minutes late after the. To the point in time. But you still got to get there on time in case they don't. And then. Yeah, and then they're just going to basically tell me everything's okay. Let's say that you're also going to have to pay for. And then in two weeks we're going to shoot you an email and everything's going to be fine. And so you just, you tend to just keep putting it off and putting it off. It's not a big deal. It's not, you know, nothing. Nothing's happening.

[C]

That was exactly it. Yep.

[B]

Yeah. Then you get the news and it was like, oh, well, now what do I do? Can you, can you take us back to that moment like when you actually found out?

[C]

Yeah, that was terrifying. And the thing was, I was in California and I again, I wasn't thinking it was serious. So I went to like some. It was a nice dermatologist place, but it was like a Southern California typical. Like they're mainly like a skincare beauty salon. Like this guy for something. But I went there and he did the, the biopsy and he like pretty much immediately saw my back. I was like, oh, whoa. Like this, this is bad. And like he had no like bedside manners that you'd expect at all. And that was terrifying. Like him saying like looking at my back and being like, oh gosh, like this is bad. Yeah. So I knew from that point, like, okay, I'm probably in bad shape right now, but this still sent it off. And I had to wait at the lab and get the results back to see that it was and that's like the worst. You don't.

[B]

Yeah, just the waiting period is the worst part.

[C]

Especially after that response. Like I knew it was bad, like something was, something was going on, but so that three week period. But yeah, I mean it was, it's, it's terrifying. It still is terrifying. And that's a big part of like why my business on this side of it is doing well now. Because I had to separate myself a bit from the day to day. Like obviously most businesses the fear is being the bottleneck and like figuring out like how to step away and realize I could trust my team. I was forced to do it because a year and a half ago is when the, the diagnosis came back at stage four cancer that I, I did step away. I did some stuff, I went down to Mexico for a few weeks and did a bunch of different holistic journeys. But I really had to trust my team that I told myself I trusted, but I never fully allowed them to kind of blossom into the role they needed to be. And my leadership team has been unbelievable over the past year and a half and seeing that happen would have, I don't know if it ever would have happened if I didn't get forced into taking a step away.

[B]

Yeah, no kidding. And it was good that you were able to, to do that and hand it off to people that you trusted because a lot of times it's just more just like, well, I guess the business is going to suffer while I go figure this thing out.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Kind of top priority. You know what I mean? Like, you don't, you don't really have the option of just like tabling it for another day. No, this is now all of a sudden demanding the majority of my time and attention and energy and really just like mental processing power. It was just. Yeah, for me it was. I don't know if it's the same for you, but for me it was like, it was just difficult to think about anything else. It was just like this thing is like front and center in my mind and, and, and mine was not stage four. So I can only imagine after like having beat it once and then having it come back. Was it also melanoma again?

[C]

Yeah, it was. And so that's, it moved. They found a little lump in my stomach. So I was doing every six months the, the PET scans or CT scans, and on my three and a half year scan, which I was getting close to that five year number that you always want to aim for, that's when they found they saw something in my stomach and came Back as melanoma.

[B]

So what, what went into the decision to treat it completely holistically? And was that against the doctor's advice?

[C]

Oh, yeah, it was, it was definitely against it. Actually. I put out a book that you touched on Built in the Fire. It's like a playbook, more of a business, like inspirational, I guess, in a sense, but just a lot of tangible, easy stuff to digest. But I've been in the process of writing more about the huge details of it, and one of the chapters touches on the doctor side of it, which made me confirm I wanted to go the natural route because I had an experience where two people I met when they got the diagnosis, I had to get surgery quickly. You get a stage four, it's like you're going to get surgery and then you're going to meet with an oncologist and do whatever they recommend. And I met with both of the clinicians there at UT Hospital where I'm close to the surgeon, told me, like, word for word, don't you be crazy and go down to a clinic in Mexico like some of these people do. You'll end up dying. And I was like, I mean, in the back of my mind, that's what I wanted to do. I was like entertaining it and I wasn't fully committed yet. And I was like, man, that, like, why do you, you know, that's, that's something you don't want. No one should say that to anyone, whether it's a. His strong opinion or not. So that was one reason I was like, okay, I think I want to go the other route. And then the oncologist, which is, he's a healthy looking young guy. He's, he was, he's knowledgeable, he's like respected in the department. But I was talking about diet. I was like, I'm learning a lot about diet, like cancer. You know, there's a lot of studies that show it could be triggered by what you eat, what you put in your body, toxins, different chem, everything. It's like, you know, it's, it's all encompassing. And I asked him about that and he was like, ah, don't worry about that. He's like, if you're drinking a six pack a day, maybe cut back a few beers, you can still drink alcohol. He's like, don't change your diet. Don't be crazy. Just, we'll come in, we'll do surgery and then we'll do immunotherapy and that's, that's the route we're gonna go. But he was just so like, yeah, it was just exactly dismissive of what I was trying to say, that I was like, you know what, I'm gonna pause, take a break and dive deeper into this research, kind of follow my instinct and see if I could get second third opinions. And I did. I went to MD Anderson because they're top cancer in the country. So we went there. The doctor there was a lot more open to some of the diet stuff and I was just continuing to research. And my wife was unbelievable during that process too. Just she can have like a PhD now and all the stuff that she's learned. But we just researched it and figured out like, this is the way to go. This is like, this makes sense. This feels good for us. We've heard a lot of success stories, so let's, let's just go this route.

[B]

So tell me a little bit more about New Hope Healthcare Institute. What, what is the main purpose behind that? What's the mission? What are you guys trying to accomplish?

[C]

So when I went to California is to live with my cousin who struggles with addiction. He's got six years clean now, I believe actually more than that now he's close to 10 years clean. We went out there, he got sober and I saw the power of what happens in that and that's why I got the entry level job. And just seeing the transformation in teens and seeing the transformation in adults was something that's just. There's not many careers you could work in where you like explicitly can save someone's life besides like a surgeon on an ER table. That's what New Hope Healthcare Institute is. It's saving people from addiction who potentially would overdose and die. So our mission is just to really have a place where we could deal with the mental health side of it. Depression is huge, anxiety is huge. It's a, it's a big cause of the suicide. Numbers are crazy these days. So it's just working in this field is just impactful. And our mission is really to try have a place where people feel comfortable, seek care and we just do it, we do it well here. It's a compassionate crew I have, and they, they do a really good job of just reaching out to people and meeting people where they're at. So we do substance use and mental health services for outpatient level of care.

[B]

How important is attention to community in the addiction recovery process?

[C]

It's everything. I mean, they, they. That's why meetings are such a big thing for people in early recovery. I'm not personally in recovery myself, but just Having support group and people around you is by far the most important thing. There's this really popular TED Talk out there. But he says the like addiction isn't the lack of or like the addiction is something. It's basically the lack of community. And if you want to be successful in sobriety and just being mental health is just having a solid community and not isolating yourself. And that's why there's so many horror stories of CEOs who end up taking their lives. Because you are at the top and it is, it is lonely. How's the lesson I learned? I didn't realize you work in a, in a building with, you know, I have 55 employees, but they're employees. I don't have a relationship with them and I don't have a community. And it's tough.

[B]

You don't have any relationship is different.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like you might have a relationship with them and people perceive that as community. But those are not the same things.

[C]

No, not at all.

[B]

It's just a different type of relationship. Not to say that you know, like you're, you're different or better or whatever. It's just like, it's just, it's just the, the nature of how it works. Like when somebody's receiving a paycheck from you, it's just going to be by nature, by definition somewhat of a different relationship. It does not actually solve the problem. And the appearance of people around you does not necessarily mean that you're not feeling lonely internally. And that's. Yeah, I love that phrase that the, the opposite of addiction is community. Did you ever see, there's a researcher I flanking on his name, did a experiment that they called Rat Park. Did you ever see anything on that?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Pretty wild.

[C]

They're giving the, the rats a bunch of drugs and as soon as they had their friends around them, they stopped drinking the. I think it was cocaine water or whatever it was.

[B]

Right. Well, it went from. The thing that was crazy to me about it is it went from, it went from two absolutes and you. I, I feel like anyway, in the little bit of research that I've reviewed in, in my time as a podcaster, I feel like it's very rare where you see scientists use words like never and always. And this context, it was one of those times where it was like when in isolation, the rat always, 100% of the time would engage in the cocaine laced water and end up killing themselves always, every time. And then when they put them in the environment of the rat park, it did not prevent Them from partaking sometimes in the cocaine water, but it, it, it changed it from they always became addicted and died from it to they never became addicted and died from it.

[C]

And yeah, it's mean and it's, it is a perfect analogy of what like successful recovery looks like. Our program puts a huge emphasis on keeping busy. We have sober living houses that we have a network of where people aren't isolated in a bed by themselves. We try to keep our people in our program busy on the weekends doing different, like adventure therapy and just as busy as possible. The supportive group is just huge because you, once you get, like you said, isolated and you get in your own head and you're not having that community around you, you could just fall into bad patterns pretty quickly. Yeah.

[B]

What's, what's the goal now, buddy? Are you trying to like, is, is it, is it to expand on this current thing? Is it to do more content, bring more awareness around this? What, what's your, what's your, what's your core goal now?

[C]

Core goal right now for me, personal goals. Happy with where my, this current business is with New Hope. That's my first project. I do have just the passion, project and heart towards what the book is about and kind of just sharing my story as far as whatever that looks like. I don't know what type of business model it's going to be, but I do know that I'm personally called to share more about what I know and what I've been through and kind of seeing how I can be of service through that, whether it's expanding into holistic treatment somewhere or having a program that focuses more on that side of it. But that's, that's the trajectory of it. We, we scaled up really fast with New Hope and did well. And actually this last year we've dialed back a little bit just to make it something that's not sustainable because it was sustainable higher. But I want to maintain the quality of care and the type of program that you know is excellent and doesn't just focus on full growth mode. I want to keep it kind of more of a, I guess you call it like a boutique program where we're at right now, which is still, I guess, mid size in the industry.

[B]

Well, congrats to you, man on, on the, on the recovery. Congrats to you on the, on the business and the success for everything that you're working on in the book and everything like that, kids, family. I appreciate the example that you're setting the world. Where can people go to get more from you.

[C]

For me, you could go to buddy clay.com. it's simple. I have my. My company's linked on there, New Hope Institute, the books on there, and just any other information about what's going on in. In my life. So just Buddy Clay dot com.

[B]

Buddy Clay got Buddy Clay dot com. Go check out some stuff that Buddy's working on over there. Appreciate you for taking the time, man. I know you're a busy guy. I don't take that for granted. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there. Here in the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.