← Travis Makes Money
Travis Makes Money
INTERVIEW | Make Money by Mastering Sales, Building Visibility, and Scaling a Business Through Adversity with Rick Jordan
00:28:32
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up, required compatibility and availability. Various 18. You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's a mission to help you make more money. On this episode of the show, I have a new friend, Rick Jordan. Rick is the founder and CEO of Reach Out Digital Intelligence, which he built into one of the only publicly traded cybersecurity firms of its kind. He's advised on infrastructure and emerging threats at the White House level and has built a massive audience with over a million followers on Instagram, over a billion lifetime social impressions, 500 million TV audience reach, and the top 100 podcast frequency with Rick Jordan, which gets over 2 million monthly impressions. Rick, what's up, man? Welcome to the show.
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B
What's shaking, Travis? Thanks for having me on, dude. Dude.
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A
Of course, of course. Happy to, happy to always make it happen. Chat with awesome people like yourself. Let's take it back, let's throw it back. Before we get into some of the cool stuff that you're up to now, tell me the first time that you ever made a dollar that shocking to you, surprising to you that somebody was actually willing to pay you money to do this thing?
- [01:35]
B
Man, I was 10 years old. I remember this like it was yesterday. I'm 46 today. I know I don't look like it, right? Thank you. Well, no, I mean, like as of today. Oh, I see.
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A
Okay, got it.
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B
It's like today.
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A
Okay.
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B
My half birthday was like a month ago, but whatever. Yeah, I. No, I remember I was 10 years old and my dad was working at a, at a store called Videoconcepts. I don't know if you remember those or not, but they were actually part of like the Radio Shack stuff. Right.
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A
Okay.
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B
They were in malls and he was there as a salesperson. And for those who are also mid-40s, TurboGrafx 16 came out. Like, this was around the time when, like the first Nintendo came out to the original nes and they're like, we need somebody to really showcase this. Well, you play video games, right? And I went by Ricky at that point. It's like, like, okay, they're like, we're going to pay you $5 an hour. I was like, oh, it's $5 an
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A
hour to play video games at 10.
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B
Yep, exactly. Right.
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A
Sign me up.
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B
I know. So it was real money. It was for three days, dude. And I beat that game. It was Bonks Adventure. I beat that game like 18 times over those three days. But that's all I did. They had one of the big screen, like the old school big screen TVs that were set up. Right. It was a projection TV and I was just playing TurboGrafx 16 all day long. But even outside of the money, it's like they included perks like taking me to Sbaro in the mall food court for lunch. Ye, yeah. It was cool, bro.
- [02:57]
A
Dude, that's a dream job for a tech. Are you kidding me? That's awesome. So that was that. That would have been like an early like gamestop competitor then, I would assume.
- [03:04]
B
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean they sold TVs, receivers, all that. But then this console system was. They really kind of launched them into the profitability standpoint.
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A
Yeah. Did you have a like inclination toward tech?
- [03:18]
B
I kind of did, always. Truly, you know, and it was just then in baseball, you know, so. And also music. So it's like I'm kind of well rounded when it comes to that. But tech, even when I was that young. Right. Because video games, whatever, everybody plays them. Now you got 18 month olds playing on an iPad, which you know that. That's another aside, right. Because I don't agree with it. That young.
- [03:36]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
But still. Yes. So when I was like 11 and 12, it's like that same manager of that video concept store was like a family friend and he's the one who started exposing me to computers because they sold them there too. They sold Tandy computers at this video concept store. And with him I built my first ever computer. Also when I was 10 years old, putting all the components together and I just learned a little bit about the software. I mean, I remember back in fourth grade, I. Sorry, sixth grade, I think. Cause I was maybe 11 at that point. I think that's about right if I think back. So I did a computer project and it was so cool. Cause I learned another important lesson back then too. I had all the. At the science fair you had all these adults judging. Right. And if you do things that have a wow factor, that the people who are even more experienced than you or beyond you in age are just like, oh, man, that's pretty cool. And they don't understand anything about it. You were ahead of the game. Yeah, I programmed something. It was just, it was in basic, right. I learned Basic coding language. That was the name of. It was called Basic. And it was just a knife that was going across the screen into this, into this wall. And I just used it as a visual. As a visual. So I'm like rolling down a cart from the library, borrowing a computer from the computer lab, setting it up for the science fair. I got a first place right on this thing. And all it was was showing the differences in like color codes between an Apple computer and a PC and how they match. And that was my research project. And then I just had a colorful knife. That was good. It was just visual. That's another thing. Like, the computer served no purpose. The knife served no purpose.
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A
Right.
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B
Just to make a spectacle. That's it.
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A
And it worked.
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B
Yeah, sure.
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A
And also, I think there's something to that. Like at a really young age, to get like positive reinforcement around something that you think is uniquely cool, it almost makes you dive further into that thing.
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B
Totally, man. Yeah.
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A
Is that sort of like, were you just kind of tinkering from that point on and then thinking like, like in, in your mind, were you like, I want to go to school for this. I want to learn everything I can about computers. Like, what were you thinking that to turn into career wise?
- [05:45]
B
Oh, dude, I didn't think it was going to turn into anything. I mean, it was more like, like human behavior education for me at that point, you know, to see what wowed people. Prior to that, when I was seven, my first thing ever is I wanted to be a tornado chaser.
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A
Oh, really?
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B
Yes. I actually am now. Right. Amateur. Right. But advanced trained storm spotter. You know, because meteorologist was the first thing I ever wanted to do. I get books from the library and read about tornadoes and thunderstorms and all that. But then after that, that computer thing, when I was 11 years old, I really started getting into the idea of law enforcement and the military. And that is actually, if you want to call it a career choice. It is the first thing I chose because I became a cadet when I was 15 years old with the local police departments. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go for the military, I'm going to do marines, I'm going to be an mp, and then I'm Going to have my ticket into any state law enforcement agency. Wow.
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A
Interesting.
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B
That was the very first career choice, man. And then just a number of things kind of told me it's like, maybe that's not the best choice right now. One, the police department had some issues. I actually talked about this in my book a few years ago ago. Write some cover up stuff, you know, that I was like, okay, that's kind of, kind of weird. I don't really like that. Second, the Marines wouldn't take me because I had a medical history of asthma. So I was like, well, there's still this tech thing. Yeah, right, right.
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A
So you didn't end up doing any of that at all then?
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B
None of that, no. Except years later it kind of went full circle because I ended up owning a protection and investigation agency with a partner. Yeah. This was from 2017 to 2021. I mean, guns and guards investigations. That's where I was trained by a former CIA age, you know, in surveillance, solicitation, different types of trade craft. So it kind of came full circle, man. But still, even in cyber, it's like human aspects of things is still the thing. Like the psychology and the sociology is still the things that kind of really get me going.
- [07:31]
A
Yeah, yeah. Well, clear. And in a field like that, I have to imagine that gives you an edge for sure. People who only speak tech who can't speak human, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
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B
That's why I go on major news networks too, you know. Yeah. It's like breaking it down, you know, I've literally had Fox and D.C. that's like, can Rick come on and. Because we need him to break this down for America.
- [07:53]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
That's the cool part though, dude. Seriously. That's why I love talking. Like even, even your show is just being real and being human. Yeah. There's another project I'm looking at right now that's in the space. I can't tell you what it is, but it's really super cool. Yeah. The whole point is that like There was a PhD who developed this thing. They can't raise capital because he can't talk. And I look at the deck and the deck is nothing but the science.
- [08:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know, it's like I can speak that language. Yeah.
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A
The deck is like 5,000 words.
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B
Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so many pages that make up those words and it's all these ones and zeros and just about how, how great it is for this tech. Like deep dive into how it functions. I'm like that people don't care yeah, know your audience. Come on.
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A
So. So what did you end up doing then post high school?
- [08:40]
B
I. I worked in Radio Shack. That was actually so that, you know, I never made that connection. Back to video concept.
- [08:46]
A
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- [09:19]
B
New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom rack stores now. Stock up and save big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories and more must haves for summer. Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discount discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack ups. Until right now, that's fine, literally. But. But Radio Shack just looked cool, you know, and it was. It was filled with tech, filled with gadgets. It was a lot of fun. What I didn't know going into it, though, because I, I came from McDonald's. My first job ever was to McDonald's, where I ended up being a shift manager. And McDonald's taught me a lot too, about sales, bro. Seriously, like, one of my keynotes. Do you want fries with that? You know, because the art of the upsell, you know, they were masterful at that, man. Like, everything. And it's a lesson that I employ to this day is anything you sell in your organization, you should always have something above it. Never have yourself go out of room without the ability to put something premium on top of it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Even if it's your top, top, top thing. Right? Because back in the day, McDonald's was like, hey, you know, I'd like a number two supersize with a Coke. Right? And you think, well, I can't supersize it. Already comes with fries, already comes with the Coke because it's got the sandwich. It's like. But they always has. Like, the question was, would you like an apple pie to go with that? There was always something to add on. Yeah. So then.
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A
Which is what made the business model work too. Like, that was the crazy thing, was learning that McDonald's was like the, like the largest toy manufacturer, I think, on the planet, as well as the largest Holder of real estate or something. It was like, oh my gosh, dude, they, they are getting away with murder. Telling people they sell burgers. Like they don't sell burgers. Like they make money from fries and Coke and then they invest that money into, you know, experience with toys to get your kids to bring you to McDonald's and then, and then make money long term because they buy all the real estate underneath the building.
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B
You got it, man. It's like the burgers are a loss leader. Seriously.
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A
Right?
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B
100%. So that radio Shack, when I started there, what I didn't expect is I went there just to, to have fun, right. And I found out that it was really a sales gig. First and foremost. It was a sales gig and I ended up making. So I was 17 years old and Christmas time I sold 300 cell phones. And the way I did that was the McDonald's method. Because back in, in that day, this was 1997, they were. Phone prices were subsidized right. When you signed it, because it was a three year contract back then. But when you signed up for three years, you got a phone for a penny. So anytime anyone in Radio Shack would walk up, I mean they could be buying just double a batteries, dude. And I would be like, would you like a cell phone with a penny to go with that?
- [12:08]
A
Geez.
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B
And every time, 300 in a month. And that netted me 30 grand on my check.
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A
30 grand?
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B
30 grand. Because we got a spiff of a hundred bucks.
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A
Wow.
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B
Every phone that we sold, you know, it's like the store got 200 and you got 100. Because the total commission off of that, the store got paid because it was again, the phone was subsidized. But you know, amortize the value of the contract over that three year period. And that they were just such a high commissionable product that we would get a hundred bucks for every single one that we sold. I was topping the country man for Radio Shack. Crazy for that. Yeah.
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A
What do you think, what do you think ended up happening with Radio Shack ultimately?
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B
Oh, it was just bad management and they didn't stick with the times. You know, they didn't evolve. They. They kept the same pattern in the store the entire way through. I remember when they tried to do something with putting a Sprint. If you remember, Sprint is a wireless carrier, right? T Mobile acquired them a few years back. Yeah, they. Sprint had the first like store within a store concept. Now you see it all over the place, right? You see it in Best Buys, you see it in Shoot in Nordstrom. Right. How there's like specific areas. Exactly. Right on, man. Right on. That's the only way that they tried to evolve, but they still kept kind of the core of what they were. And people just stopped. Stop buying things like that. Transistors and resistors, you know, and all these other high margin items, you know, they just went towards completely done for you. Right. And of course, when online shopping came about, I mean, this is like even pre Amazon, dude, you know, Right. When that happened, they were done. You know, they did not, they did not pivot how they should have.
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A
So tell me, the first entrepreneurial venture then. So you had some sort of some odd jobs, picked up some skills along the way, which I think is something to dial in on and not just skip over, because the, the odd jobs and the skills is what allows you to be able to go into an entrepreneurial venture and not fall flat on your face immediately. So you picked up some skills along the way, you learned, worked hard, put yourself in a good position. What was the first entrepreneurial venture you took on?
- [14:10]
B
If you're talking truly myself, by myself, that would be when I was laid off from Best Buy. And during that time period, because that was 2007 when that happened. Two weeks before my kids were born, my twins. Ooh, my first kids. Right. And however, it's like even before that, I was still really kind of part of like a startup culture because there was a Radio Shack when I was there. I did get promoted to a store manager. They gave me a million dollar store doing a million dollars in sales when I was 18. Wow. And you were paid a stupid low salary of like 12 grand a year. And then everything on top of that was based off your net income on your P and L. Yeah. So they taught you business, right? You had control over ordering, inventory, wages, you know, even in negotiating le, you know, and all that. You had so much control over all the expenses on that. They invested heavily into training you, the finances of the business, which was awesome. Right. Because then from there I went to. I started working at Best Buy part time while I was doing a computer project for City of Chicago and around that. And while I was at Best Buy, that's when Geek Squad came about. And Geek Squad was like a startup because Best Buy acquired them. They were in Minneapolis, they were doing a couple million a year. So not quite startup like. Right. But expanding it nationwide 100% like a startup. That's what it felt like. I was the first one in Chicago. And then they come to me and they're like, hey, you know, out of our seven test stores, right. Why are your per ticket dollars three times more than any of the others?
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A
Because. Do you want fries with that?
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B
Yeah, exactly. That was the question. These corporate guys, I was like, have you ever been to McDonald's? That was the question.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But from there then I wrote the entire sales playbook for Best buy for business B2B sales, you know, for these things, which is really like a technical aspect of what they were doing. They were trying to be a var value added reseller. Right. Doing servers and all of that for small businesses. The installation with Geek Squad, specifically dedicated business Geek Squad agents. And then that whole thing came crashing down because of bad management, and they laid off 700 of us across the country.
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A
Wow.
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B
I was no longer like directly in Geek Squad. I was part of this Best Buy for business because it was the next startup thing. I would crap, like, once Geek Squad was up and running, I'm like, well, that was fun. Yeah, I can still do this. Yeah, exactly. So that's when I started as an independent. I was just an independent computer consultant. In 2010, I launched Reach Out. And during that time, I always knew that I wanted recurring revenue. That was one thing I saw during the years with Geek Squad or Radio Shack. It's like, these are always one time sales. You know, nobody ever said, hey, recurring revenue is the best. Rick, you should go. After that, I was just like, I have really young kids and I would like to have a baseline that's really where that came from.
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A
It was sort of just intuition.
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B
Yeah, yeah, you got it, man. And it's obviously, it's still the best to this day.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But that was it. And you know, I started with a couple clients that like, hey, Geek Squad sucks. We would love to have you over. One of my first ones was a Buffalo Wild Wings franchise owner. You know, six stores, you know, it was like three grand a month. I mean, that's not enough to obviously have a family on four of them. But I just kept signing people, man. Yeah. Just getting out there talking about it, you know, I've never been afraid to ask for the sale.
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A
How is that pivoted along the way, man?
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B
It became a. There's a big event that I had in 2015 and it was a. It was a health event. So, you know, I got it up to the point to where I was doing a couple hundred K in my pocket, you know, every year, like making what somebody. We gather here tonight to bring women back to their rightful place. The Testaments, a new Hulu Original series from the executive producers of the Handmaid's Tale. It's easier to accept a story than believe that the people around you are monsters. The battle isn't over. There comes a time when you have
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A
to take action, when you have to
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B
choose your own destiny.
- [18:10]
A
Never quite as it seems.
- [18:12]
B
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A
Yeah.
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B
This is just something that happened. Right. Yeah. However, what am I missing out on my life right now? Like, it was just a reflective period. That's it. And then when it changed, it's like, I'm not doing really what I would want to do, you know? So even in the tech business, I was like, here's the question I asked. I'm like, I either need to sell it or I either need to find a way to love it.
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A
Something's got to change.
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B
Yeah, exactly. And the way to love it was to completely let go of the actual tech aspect of it from an operator's perspective and just look at scale and go back all the way to my Radio Shack training as a manager, Right. And go back to the P and L and just be like, okay, I'm going to dial this in. I got this thing to 74% gross margin. It is 100% scalable. At this point, I can start moving forward. But wait, before I do that, I'm also a musician. I love being on stage. Right. I speak all that. I think I need to do some of that, too. So I think I need to go on tv. I think I need to get some speaker training. I think I need to do some media training, you know? And then I didn't know this at the time, but it was like the visibility that I was building for myself preceded what I needed the visibility for.
- [21:15]
A
Yeah, just sort of the dig your. Well, before your thirsty thing.
- [21:17]
B
Exactly, exactly, man. And now, I mean, before personal brands even really had a name, right, Is when I started doing TV and speaking and then I started my podcast. Just because a branding agency that I hired, Ludy, says you need a podcast. Yeah. You know, people ask, why'd you start a podcast, Rick? I'm like, because they told me I should have one. There's no deep answer. Yeah, exactly.
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A
I mean, the. The nice thing about that, though, is that you get to control everything and you can manage your own calendar the way that you want to, and then, you know, talk to people that you find most interesting. I mean, that's why I still do the show, man. They've been doing this.
- [21:51]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
This is nine years. I think we're on episode. I don't know, 1800 or something like that.
- [21:56]
B
That's awesome, man.
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A
It's just because of that, man. Like today alone, like, you're. You're my fifth or sixth conversation. I just got off the call with Lee Steinberg, the guy that Jerry Maguire was based on, and.
- [22:06]
B
Oh, yeah, dude, Dude, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
It's just, like, you just get to meet so many cool people and. And then it helps also with what you're talking about earlier with the visibility and bringing more business and things like that. Tell me about the. Tell me about the decision to take the company public.
- [22:23]
B
Yeah, that was, that was kind of the same as the podcast question. Okay, seriously, because I was looking around, I'm like, okay, I know that I want to grow by acquisition now, you know, because I'm at that stage and I want to scale. So I'm like, you know, there's private equity and all that. I'm looking around, so I'm looking at the options, right. And there's not many out there to actually gain capital. Especially when you're only doing like three to four million dollars a year, right. You're in your services business, Right. You have no intellectual property. So it's like, what do I need to do? You know? So then I'm like, well, there is the public route. And I'm like, nobody's done this as an msp. And I'm like, I felt like I was in this long line of like MST owners, like 260, 000 of them, right? Looking left, looking right. It's like, is anybody going to do this? Yeah, like, well, fine, I'll do it. Because nobody else is doing it. I mean, just like the podcast, right? It was just something that. That is the next and just something to do. It. It fits some check marks as far as access to capital, visibility as well. Right. Because it, it makes a splash. Nobody else had done it yet, you know. Which, which. Eyeballs. A board member of mine was the first independent director for exp realty. Small company, right? Small $8 billion company.
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A
Yeah, teeny tiny.
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B
Exactly. And he, he told me a lot of one liners, but he was like, eyeballs get a tent. Or attention gets eyeballs and eyeballs gets money. It was just that, right? So it's like attention gets you money, you know, if you, if you bridge it across. And I'm like, yeah, man, I believe in it. So it's like, do the things that will get you attention.
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A
Yeah. Be. Just do interesting things and people want to talk to you about it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
What was the timeline from, you know, this sort of existential life threatening moment to taking your company public.
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B
Oh, eight years.
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A
Eight years.
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B
Eight years. 2015 to 2023. I did a reg A offering, which is a public offering of shares for a private company that was in 2021, you know, so at the very least six years, you know, but really till we were listed on OTC was eight years.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And now it's Frequency holdings that's the name.
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A
How has that changed? Or has it changed your business internally?
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B
Oh, dude, it was a hundred percent. I mean, we had some bad acquisitions. Right. So we went from 4 million to 15 million on a run rate in two years. That's a hell of a growth month. Yeah. And then crashed it back down after we lost these acquisitions just because one was really toxic. So in that, though, it's like the, the stock price crash and all that thing. I learned again, a lot more about people. Right. It's like they're all, they're all with you and happy when everything seems to be going well, but they're not the ones on the inside when things are going bad. That's exactly right. You start to get hated by a lot of people because they lost real money.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, at the same time, it's like, so did I, because I put 2 million on my own into this thing. I'm still the biggest investor.
- [25:08]
A
Yeah. That's one of those weird things about that world, man, is like, of course, of course you want to do the best you possibly can to steward the money that people are trusting you with. And. But my thing is, like, if you're operating with integrity, you're doing the best that you possibly can. It's. It feels weird to me when people start getting upset at the founder or whatever. It's like you're, you're making an investment. Like you're, by definition, you're taking a risk in any investment. Even in the most safe asset classes you can imagine, you're still taking a financial risk by putting your money into any investment. But when you're talking about investing into a private company or, or even a public company that is a single stock or, you know, a tech startup or something like that, it's like, this is an insane risk. And it's really just a wild reaction to me to like, start hating people because, you know, their company didn't go. Like, you, you think they, you think that that's what they wanted? Like, of course.
- [26:01]
B
Yeah.
- [26:01]
A
No joke. Like I said, as long as they're operating in integrity and they're not like buying their third house in the Caymans with your money. You know what I mean? And like, it's just. It is what it is.
- [26:10]
B
I saw that the other day from convertible notes. Like, that's a million dollar salary for Rick Jordan. I'm like, where's, where's that money?
- [26:16]
A
Yeah.
- [26:17]
B
I haven't seen that. Right.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah. It's wild stuff, man. Well, what do you, what are you working on? These days, Rick, that you're, like, really pumped for, excited for, that's it.
- [26:25]
B
I mean, there's some cool technical projects that I'm looking at, again, just being. Being public. It's. Right. It's not publicly disclosed, so there's not everything that I can talk about. But relaunching our acquisition strategy, right, we announced a reverse split. Now, it's structural. Like, this is the stuff I'm good at, too, is like defining structure on these things, you know, getting it to the point to where it's trading above a penny and which it will be here shortly, you know, as soon as FINRA approves this. And then there's institutions that have said, yeah, we believe in what you're doing. And it's been great because investors have told me it's like, look at yourself. Kind of like SpaceX. It's like you shot the rocket up, right? It exploded in the air. But all the engineers on the ground were pumped because they got the thing off the ground, right? Because that thing took off. It's like. And how many more did they need to do? It's like, I don't want to go through 300 tries on this, man. Sure, where I can get it, land back and stay intact, but there's people willing to get behind it, and that's just doing structural modifications now so that it makes sense for them financially in order to be involved again. Because I've already proven the model works right. And humbly, I already know what not to do next time as far as how I. How I acquire these companies.
- [27:33]
A
Rick, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show, man, and share a little bit about your journey, your story. Where can people go to connect with you the most?
- [27:39]
B
RickJordan TV and if you wanted to, yeah, you can find information out about the company, frequency holdings there and my show, everything. Travis, you're awesome, man. Thank you.
- [27:48]
A
Appreciate it, man. RickJordan TV Also, you guys are podcast listeners. Go check out his podcast frequency with Rick Jordan. I know you will not regret that either. Rick, appreciate you taking the time. I know you're a busy guy. Don't take that for granted. Everybody else tuning in, remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Face.