A (3:45)

To me, it's one of the best side hustles out there, man, because, because it is by definition something that you care about. Like, like it's not a great move to just look for a, a blue ocean somewhere and start a podcast for the sake of, you know, trying to fill that gap in the market. It's just like, look, if you're going to start a podcast and it's going to be a side hustle, then just talk about what you actually care about. Talking about, talk to people who you're genuinely curious and talking to, ask good questions, have good conversations and stuff happens that's positive from that. Right? So how long you been doing the show now?

B (4:23)

So about four years I've been doing it and it's funny. So I imagine you've also spoken with other podcasters who are like, yeah, I have this idea, Travis, I don't know, could it be a podcast? I don't have everything lined up. Should I use Riverside? Should I use this platform? Should I use, you know, a specific type of microphone, external camera, lights, you know, again, waiting for all those boxes to be checked. And I was talking to someone, Marnie Gordon, who works at the ANA, the assessor, the association of National Advertisers back in 2022. And I said, you know what, Marnie? I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to, you know, we're going to record. I heard about Riverside fm. People have said it's a great platform. I'm just going to record. And I sounded horrible. I sounded horrible. And I remember my third episode, I had someone on and he said, you know, Bradley, he said, wait, you know, this is your third episode. Wait till you do your, you know, 79th episode. And you're going to notice a huge difference because again, it's that, that comfortability, you know, that rapport, that cadence, you know, getting on, that consistency too. You know, every other week, you know, I hear about like once you start something like a Netflix show, right, it's, it's scheduled viewing, you know, you know that, you know this TV show is going to drop a new episode on Sunday night, so you expect it. Same thing with a podcast. I try to get on this consistent pattern where I'm dropping a new episode every other Wednesday. So my, my listeners and, and, and people are following the show can, you know, have that, that pent up anticipation, right? Of, okay, what's the next episode? Who's the next guest that Eric has brought on?

A (5:54)

Yeah, well, you touched on something that is one of the core reasons that I encourage most people to have podcasts. Because this episode of the show is brought to you by. Factor. Got big goals but no time to cook. Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs. So eat well without the planning or the cooking. Inside, you will get quality functional ingredients, including lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole food ingredients and healthy fats. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils. Get that stuff out of meals that actually fit your goals and your schedule. Healthier eating, calorie management, more protein, et cetera, et cetera. With over 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh and delicious through the winter. Your options include high protein calorie smart Mediterranean diet, GLP1 support, and ready to eat salads, plus the new Muscle Pro collection support strength and recovery. And it's always fresh, it's never frozen, and it's ready in about two minutes. No prep, no stress, just delicious, nutritious food. So head over to factor meals.com TMM50OFF and use code TMM50OFF to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor New subscribers only. Varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. This episode of the show is brought to you by Shopify. Starting something new isn't just hard, it's terrifying. So much work goes into this thing that you're not entirely sure it'll work out, and it can be hard to make that leap of faith. Trust me, I know this. When I started my podcast, I wasn't even sure what I was doing, to be honest with you. What if nobody listens? What if I make a fool of myself? What if I'm embarrassed? You know, what if nobody buys stuff that I put out there? Now I know that I was right in believing myself in launching this podcast and the subsequent businesses that come along with it, despite all the fears and hesitations. It also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Magic Spoon to brands just getting started. You can get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style, accelerate your efficiency. Whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing products, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. There's really no excuses anymore people, because Shopify literally does all of this stuff for you. And did I mention that the iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's from Shopify. It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less cards going abandoned and more sales for you. It's time to turn those wh ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com TMM go to shopify.com TMM that's shopify.com TM M M like there there was that that question people toss around is, you know, there. There's too many podcasts out there or podcasts ubiquitous and you know make podcasting equipment more expensive and that whole idea. And so when everybody asks me that question, I kind of just flip it back around to them, just be like, well, do you want better connections? Do you want to sharpen your communication skills? Do you want to learn at a faster pace because you're getting questions answered by people who you respect and admire? Like, there's so many other reasons to do this besides just the audience. Like to me, the audience growth and like sponsorship revenue and the idea potentially come full time thing. That's like the, the, the holy grail. That's like the cherry on top. That's, that's the, that's the, the thing that would be awesome as a byproduct of doing this work on a daily basis. But in the meantime, there's still so many other reasons to do it. What have you found in your experience has been maybe the most surprising side effect of.

B (9:58)

I think the most surprising is that there are a lot of, there's a lot of commonality, especially when you talk to founders. Right. You know, especially when they go from zero to one. You know, there are a lot of things that they didn't anticipate. And I talked to, you know, a lot of founders, you know, early stage or, or more mature, and they're like, I wish I knew this, or I wish I, you know, it's a bit of a, like Monday morning quarterback. And I think, yes, they look back and they say, you know what, I'm happy I went through that experience. I'm happy I learned. I'm happy I didn't have all the answers. You know, I had the co founders craft cocktails ready to drink a cocktail brand. You can find it all, all up and down California Total wines and spirits. What's great is they're category outsiders. And I've heard that from other founders too. We like being category outsiders because we didn't have these, like, these preconceived notions of what to expect. And I think that's pretty. Again, that's, you know, going back to that student mindset. Same thing with podcasters. I'm happy I didn't have all the answers or had everything lined up and perfect before I started having conversations like the one that you and I are having. I'm Lear lot right. I'm, you know, things that I didn't even anticipate knowing I'm finding out. So I think that that's sort of that commonality between, you know, journeys. I think is, is rather interesting.

A (11:12)

Yeah. I remember reading there was a book that I read. I forget who the author was, but it was this health book and written by a doctor of, you know, highly educated person. And at the very end of the book, he was kind of like, I, I was, I was. It was audio, so I was listening to it at the gym. And so I, I, you know, my phone was in my pocket. I was in the middle of a set, and I couldn't. Was done. But he was going through some acknowledgments and stuff at the end. But I didn't have my phone in my hand, so I didn't skip it or like, move on to the next book. I was just, like, listening to the acknowledgments. I was finishing this set or whatever. But I'm glad that I didn't, because in his acknowledge acknowledgments for the book, which became a New York Times bestseller, if I remember correctly, he brought up his podcast and he was like, basically, basically attributed a lot of the knowledge and additional competence that he's gained in the last few years directly to the people that he had had on his show and the stuff that he was continuing to learn. And I had always said that that was a major side effect for me because it wasn't just a matter of me learning directly from all the people that I was talking to, which, of course is definitely a huge pro, but it was also that I felt this sort of obligation to my audience to be on the up and up, if that makes sense, to constantly be trying to learn the cutting edge of whatever I talked about, because I felt like I owed that to them. Like, if they, if even if it was 62 people, it's like 35 people, whatever. Somebody's taking the time to listen to my stuff, I should probably take the time to make sure that I'm providing the best quality information. So that sort of. It sort of made me read more books, listen to more audios, listen to podcasts, myself, kind of be in the. That. That learning zeitgeist more actively. So the podcast sort of became like accountability partner for becoming a better version of myself as well. Even if you subtract the money that we'd be able to generate and the businesses that we started, all from branching off of the show, which is all awesome. Still, even if none of that stuff happened, I still view it as a positive use of my time.

B (13:15)

Yeah, absolutely. And I imagine there are other correlated benefits that, if you think back, one of my favorite Steve Jobs quotes is, you can't connect the dots. Looking forward, you can always only Connect them looking backwards. So I imagine a lot of those experiences, the hundreds of conversations, thousands of conversations that you're having, not just formally on a podcast, but also external from the podcast, whether it's, you know, you're at a grocery store and you're in the queue and you're talking to someone online, again, you always have that, that learner or that student mindset, which is great. And I think also from that, you know, at least from my experience, is the correlated impact is effective communication. You know, all the best business leaders that you look up to or that we look up to are incredible communicators.

A (13:54)

That's right.

B (13:55)

Absolutely incredible communicators. Yes. They're very smart. They have ideas, they execute those ideas, but they have to motivate and inspire to take action. And how does that become possible is the way that they communicate and the way they connect with each other. And I find that as a correlated positive benefit from hosting podcasts unequivocally.

A (14:13)

Yeah, it's. Especially now, and I know this is probably getting, you know, beating a dead horse at this point, talking about AI and stuff, but, and what that's going to mean for the next, you know, iteration of the workforce. But that's one of those things that I feel like is still an underrated space is the soft skills of communication and speaking and conversation and asking good questions and being somewhat entertaining sometimes, and matching the energy of the person that you're talking to. There's so many individual skills that have been sharpened just from getting on the mic and talking to somebody else as, as a discipline, as a practice, you know, because like you said, if you, if you want to keep up a consistent schedule for a long period of time, then the, the consistency hold you accountable to continuing to reach out, continuing to get rejected by some people and then get accepted by some people and then have a good conversation with this person that leads to a conversation with that person. Tell me about some of the guests that you've had on, you know, who, who, who's been somebody that you were like, wow, I can't believe I just had a conversation with this person. That's really cool.

B (15:21)

Yeah, no, so there, there are a couple. It's a great question. There are a couple of folks that come to mind, you know, in, in the, the show notes or the, the intro that I provided you. You know, Bill Shukalt, the co founder of ath, you know, I think the last valuation is in the billions, you know, that brewing, you know, he and his co founder have created not just A niche within the, the, the beverage, the adult beverage market. You know, they've created a whole category on non alcoholic beverages and beer. And I think it's just incredible. And what's also incredible again is that do good. It's you know, taking care and protecting, you know, all the, the trails within the United States. You know, really giving back and providing their employees growth and to, not just of course to down to what they're doing at work, but also to, you know, any of their, their passions or aspirations outside of work. You know, giving them that latitude, I think is, is extraordinary. Also Mike and Cass Lazro who I worked with at Buddy Media, who sold their business at Salesforce, you know, when I was at, when I was working with them, they introduced me to Cycle for Survival when it was in its, you know, second or third year this year. Cycle for survival celebrating 20 years. Over those 20 years of, of being, you know, of, of in operation, they've raised over 400 million DOL cancer research in partnership with Memorial Stone Kettering. 100% of all those proceeds that are raised go to life saving research and providing hope to rare cancer patients. Again, pancreatic cancer is considered a rare cancer where it doesn't receive that necessary federal funding. And it's providing hope this, these, this research and these treatments, these innovative treatments are providing hope to rare cancer patients, which I think is absolutely extraordinary. And most recently, I'll leave you with the third one is Eliza Blank who founded the SIL, who's now the founder next calling. She's the CEO of the FarmLink Project. FarmLink Project is working with fresh produce producers in the US in conjunction with food banks across the US helping reduce, you know, the 40 million Americans who are food insecure where they don't know where their next meal is coming from and providing the systems and operations to connect produce producers to food banks to you know, for any of that surplus, you know, fruit or vegetables, getting it from again from farms to the food bank into the, the hands and households of those food insecure Americans, which I just think is incredible. They moved 150 million pounds of surplus fresh produce last year in 2025 alone.

A (17:48)

Yeah. So the question that I want people to ponder about all this man, is like if, if people like me and you can do this.

B (17:56)

Yeah.

A (17:56)

Why can't anybody, you know what I'm saying? Like, why can't somebody else do like you to, to, to know. Look, Eric is not, Eric is not making a full time income off of the podcast right yet this episode of the show is brought to you by Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. It's fee free and smarter banking built just for you. Not like old school banks that charge you overdraft fees and monthly fees and the like. It's built for you, not the 1%. Chime is not just another banking app. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay giving you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't do this, so forget overdraft fees, minimum balance fees, monthly fees, all that stuff. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and progress. Plus they have the new Chime card, the new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day. So what that means is it is a credit card that is backed by your own money and not only and it helps you build credit which is something that's been around for a while, but you also get to earn rewards on that, which has not been something that has happened and now Chime is here to bring that to you. And with qualifying direct deposits, you get 1.5% cash back on eligible Chime card purchases. I know my younger self would have benefited from a banking option like this just because it's so much more nimble and much much easier. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to get signed up, so head over to ch.chime.com travis that's chime.com travis Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime Card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart Move Being financially savvy Smart Move Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. He's still been able to connect with all of these. The slew of amazing people that he's mentioned. Billionaires and people selling companies for massive amounts. Their company's valued at really high valuations, people doing massive moves in the nonprofit space. These types of people are accessible. That's the whole point right in your mind before you start the podcast. You think, think, man. It would be wild to talk to somebody who's had a $10 million exit and then you start doing it for a, for a few months, maybe a year, two years, and you go, oh, this is actually way easier than I thought to get in touch with some of these people who I previously thought were wildly inaccessible. And, and so my, my question then for like, especially people who have businesses, you know, it's like, what excuse do you have to not add this to the things that you're doing? Even if it's only one episode every other week, One episode a month, one episode a week. It does not have to be this like wild undertaking that takes up all of your time. It's just that in what other context are you going to be able to have a 30 to 30 minute to, you know, hour long conversation with people who could potentially be clients of the business, people who maybe have a referral that they could send to your business or maybe just they become aware of your business or maybe they're actively looking to invest in businesses. You know, there's just, there's so many touch points and positive results that can come from just having conversations and then having those conversations. Well, tell me about your, your prep process and reach out process. How does that work?

B (22:01)

Yeah, so it's also a great question. So I love, number one, I, I have to admit, you know, I love following your content, Travis, on social media. You know, it gives me inspiration based on the conversations you're having with folks, whether they're well known folks or not as well known or soon to be household names. It's great. Again, it's, it, it just, just reinforces that whole concept of consistency. Right? So in terms of my, my prep process, you know, I definitely want to do some deep research. You know, you talk about AI perplexity. AI is a great resource that can help do deep research on someone who's coming on my show to give me some, some vantage points. You know, perhaps, you know, this person has been on, you know, 10 other podcasts. How Can I make my podcast stand out and be unique from the other 10 podcasts that this, that this guest has been on? Right. In terms of reach out. So it's all about relationships. So like you and I are right now, you know, again, everyone is human. And you know, yes, we live in a world of increasing automation, but I definitely think especially in 2026, we're going to see that pendulum start swinging back to more human to human connection. You know, there are a lot of pundits on social media who are saying, you know, those spaces where you have those intimate, exclusive dinners, which I'm starting to see more and more of, of having that human to human connection is going to be much more, much more visible and widespread into 2026. So I think, you know, not being afraid to reach out, not being afraid to sen. Email finding someone's email address if you don't have a direct relationship. But as you just said, you know, you have these conversations with folks and they either say, hey, Eric, you need to talk to XYZ or better yet, LinkedIn, another great resource. Hey, you know, Travis, you're connected with so and so. Can I send you a forward, forwardable blurb they can flip over to that person? Because I really want to invite them onto my podcast. I think at the end of the day, the, the, the apprehension, you know, again, we're all human. I think the apprehension, I think, is just all in our head. I think it's just going with it just like I did four years ago with that first ep, you know, I just, you know, that person. Yes, it looks impressive on paper, but what would happen, you know, what would not, you know, what would. If, if I don't send this email, the answer is always going to be no.

A (24:03)

That's right.

B (24:04)

The answer is always going to be no.

A (24:05)

You're in the same position, right. Whether you send it or don't send it. It's just that one of those positions has the opportunity for you to have a big win, you know?

B (24:12)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's all about batting average, right? So I sent, you know, in terms of cold emails, I must have sent, you know, 100 cold emails. Three, four. But those four responses turned out to be great episodes and great conversations.

A (24:25)

Absolutely, man. And I'll add to that, too, to say that the prep work that you do is equally as important, maybe more important than the actual connection itself. Because a lot of these people do the circuit, quote, unquote, the circuit. They do a bunch of podcasts. They go speak on stages. They are no stranger to this sort of medium. But the better you can do as the host to prep properly, ask good questions, not make it boring and monotonous for them, the more likely they, they are to have had a good experience, first of all. Secondly, to actually remember you and, and the conversation that they had with you, they may not remember everything you said, but it's sort of like the, the old expression, people never remember what you say, but they'll always remember how you make them feel. So you have an opportunity to, to make them feel great about themselves, to make them feel great about the interaction that they had with you. And then lastly, it'll, it'll help. It'll help when you are looking for additional guests and you realize that there's a connection between an ideal guest that you want and a guest that you've already had had. If you reach out to the guests that you've had and they had a bad experience on your show, they're probably not going to open their arms and invite you into their network of people. But if they had a great time and you asked memorable questions, then they probably will do that. And I want to emphasize that because it's not about, it's not about how massive your audience is. It's about how properly you prepare to treat their time as valuable, like, as to treat their time the same way that they would treat their time time, which is that every minute that that person's spending with me is a minute that they're not with their family, that they're not working on their business. And like, obviously, the more well known or successful that person is, the more they value their time. So don't be somebody that's wasting these people's time because they're not gonna, they're not gonna do anything else with you. And they're probably gonna remember you in a negative light rather than a positive light. And they're definitely not gonna open up their, their highly coveted networks to you. But, you know, it just, it takes so much less and the qualifications are so much lower than you think they are. You know, for, for people to spend time with you, you just got to be somebody who respects it once you get it.

B (26:30)

Yeah, 1,000%. And what I'll add to that is, you know, I always, I always think about this concept. Givers gain. So when you're reaching out to a, to a guest, you know, to echo Travis's point, be, be as value forward and focused as possible. Be as, make the experience as frictionless as possible. I'll give you a very tactical a concrete, tactical example afterwards, you know, whether, yes, I try to aspire for all the episodes to be great. When that, when it's like top, top 1%, you know, I definitely want that person to write a review on Apple podcasts or write the show write me or the show a testimonial. But it's not just like sending that person a link to my Apple podcast listing. It's actually like, here's the link, here are the steps, and here's a suggested review that you can use or remix. And it's like two seconds. Like, to your point, it should be, you know, without even thinking because again, if you make that person work to your point, that that minute that you're making that person send on you, they, there might be some resentment because that minute could be spent with their family or making money.

A (27:31)

That's right. Yeah. No, I appreciate that, man. I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. I appreciate you for working on your own show for the last few years. I'm excited to see where it ends up taking you. Where can people go to to get more Eric?

B (27:44)

Yes, absolutely. So worthy430.com so it's worthy f o R30 spelled out.com also on Instagram, the handle is worthy for 30. And I'd love to, you know, hear from, from, you know, from listeners, from anyone who's interested about learning how to do good as while doing well. Yeah, the, the, the, the conduit of the phone lines, quote unquote, are open

A (28:08)

worthy for 30.com and at worthy for 30 over on Instagram. But check out some of the stuff that Eric's been putting out over there. And as always, remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. Catch you next time. Peace. Your software needs to be compliant to win deals. But you also need your engineers focused on building your product, not pulling sock 2 evidence. Enter a third option. Make Vanta your first security hire. Vanta uses AI and automation to get you compliant fast. Simplify your audit process and unblock deals so you can prove to your customers that you take security seriously. Plus, Vanta scales right along with you, backed by support that's there when you need it every step of the way. That's why top startups like cursor, linear and replacement applet use Vanta to get and stay secure. Don't sock block your best engineer set them free and get compliant fast with Vanta. Get started@vanta.com.