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Ryan Steiger
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Travis
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. You are listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. Hey, what's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, I have a new friend, Ryan Steiger, or as he's known on the interwebs, attorney Ryan. He's a workers rights lawyer, former firefighter, and author of get it in Writing, the ultimate guide to your rights at work. He's gained a massive following online for his easy to follow law advice. He's helping people earn more money, keep more of what they earn, and protect their paycheck. So that's almost exactly the things that we talk about on the show, which is, I think, bodes well for the. For the rest of this conversation. So, Ryan, what's up, dude? Welcome.
Ryan Steiger
Hey, thanks so much for having me, Travis. And you hit the nail on the head. You know, a lot of times when I join some of these money making, you know, financial wellness podcasts, you know, there's so much talk about, oh, how do I invest, how do I save? But we don't talk about how to protect our primary source of income, which is our paycheck. How do you protect your career? How do you protect yourself from a sudden termination? God forbid you do get laid off. None of us is invincible. How do you negotiate for a good severance? How do you protect your medical costs from spiking? These are questions that don't get answered a lot, and I hope the book helps people with that.
Travis
Absolutely, man. I appreciate you for jumping into that space because it is often the thing that has the number one ability to grow and create wealth, and yet it is often overlooked and probably just because it's more the uncomfortable piece, like we don't want to admit that we're not making enough money or we don't want to talk it's it's uncouth to remind people to make more money or. I don't know exactly what it is, but there's something there. So I appreciate you for stepping into that space. What. What prompted you to write this new book, get it in writing.
Ryan Steiger
Well, I mean, I am a workers rights lawyer, so pretty much anything that affects working class people, I'm interested in and I want to help. That's why I started making free videos on the Internet to help people understand, hey, what happens if your boss puts you on a performance improvement plan and you're worried about getting fired? How do you protect yourself? What do you do if your check is short? Also, is your boss being honest with you about salary rules over time? That bonus you promised that they didn't give you? A lot of times, you know, we prepare ourselves for the workforce. We go through elementary school, middle school, high school, college, and they don't actually teach you the rules of the game. It's the weirdest thing, Travis. They get you prepared to be a good employee, prepared to take direction, submit to discipline, meet deadlines, and just be a good little worker bee. But really, never in our educational journey does anyone sit down with you and say, hey, you're about to play the most important game of your life. That's the game of your career. Here's the rules to that game. No one does that. So my experience growing up, I had my first real job at 16. I did odd stuff, made money on the table. But when I was 16, I got my first real job with a real paycheck. Okay. No one told me what my overtime rights were. And I remember being a 16 year old kid and just being like, am I allowed to work overtime? Am I allowed to work on school days? How much overtime do I get? And what happens if my check is short? I had no idea. The only resource I had was my boss. Do you see the problem there? Yeah, maybe a little bit of, like, conflict of interest.
Travis
Yeah. Maybe just potentially.
Ryan Steiger
And now I know. I look back as an adult and reflect on that time, and I go, oh, sheesh. We were violating child labor laws left and right. They weren't being honest about my overtime, my breaks. A lot of what they told me wasn't true.
Travis
Yeah.
Ryan Steiger
And you know, sometimes the boss is, in fact, twirling their mustache and thinking of ways to screw you over. That does happen. But more often than not, they don't know the rules either.
Travis
Correct.
Ryan Steiger
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The goal here is to put people in a position where, look, I'm a workers rights Lawyer. I sue abusive employers for violating the law. That's my job. But my hope is that if we get this book into enough hands, people aren't going to need me as much. People are going to be able to advocate for themselves and keep more of what they earn, not be forced to work for free, not be forced to sacrifice family and stuff for a job that's never going to care. I want people to have more power and make more money.
Travis
Well, it's also, yeah, it's also on the employer side too, to your point. You know, like there's, there's just a lot of people who are, it's not necessarily a matter of competence versus incompetence. It's just, it's, it's ignorance to what they're allowed to do or not allowed to do or what they're supposed to expect versus not supposed to expect. And they're so focused on, they're so focused on the efforts of the small business that they're running or whatever the context is that they don't even think of it as like something that they have to go learn or, or think about. You know what I mean? They're just kind of like, oh, yeah, well, we're here to do this thing. And I'm focused on marketing and I'm focused on sales and I'm focused on hiring and I'm focused on fulfillment and operations and finance. I, I didn't even, it didn't even come into my awareness to think about the like, you know, all of these, the intricacies of how labor laws work. So even just the, the content that you're doing is not just helpful, I think, for the employees, but a lot of these employers, especially small business employers for, versus like massive corporations with huge name attorneys on retainer, you know?
Ryan Steiger
Absolutely. Well, don't put it past those big corporations. They break the rules all the time. Well, that's what I'm saying.
Travis
Those are the nefarious, intentional ones.
Ryan Steiger
Yeah, but I empathize with the small business owner. I am a small business owner. And labor law is very complex. I'm literally a practicing expert in this field and I learn something new every day. That's pretty intimidating to then go to someone who has a metal fabrication company, maybe they've got a plumbing company or a software company, and say, hey, on top of all this expertise and your marketing and your budgeting and everything you're doing, doing, you also need to know the labor code. So quite candidly, an employer should pick up this yellow and white book behind me because That'll cover top level.
Travis
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Ryan Steiger
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Travis
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Ryan Steiger
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Travis
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Ryan Steiger
most of what they need to stay out of trouble because honest truth Travis. Most employers I meet want to do the right thing. There's a few bad actors out there and that's why I wrote this to protect people. A lot of them, they, they want to do the right thing and they, they want to know the rules. So this will help them not break rules. Yeah, they didn't because then you can focus on your business.
Travis
Exactly. They didn't get into small business to screw over employees.
Ryan Steiger
Most don't, you know, unfortunately. It's funny, I have a sort of slanted SA as a workers rights lawyer. Of course it's like asking firefighter, you know how flammable is the average home? It's like, well, people only call me when the house is on fire. That's right. Same here. People call me when shit hits the fan, so to speak. At work, I tend to come up against the most dishonest, the most unethical, the most greedy employers. But I know that most people aren't like that. Most people want to do the right thing. This helps both sides.
Travis
Can you, can you share an example or two of, of some egregious cases that you've. That you've had to work if you're allowed to?
Ryan Steiger
Oh, yeah, I. I can just omit certain facts so no one knows exactly which case. But one I actually talk about in the book that was pretty upsetting for me is it was a franchise, kind of owns these fast food restaurants and they had this program where kids. These were children who had high school, you know, they were high school students who were working their first job here, and they had this program where the kids could come in on Saturday for volunteer shifts, and in exchange for their quote, unquote work ethic and showing commitment, they would get a gift card to the restaurant. That is completely unacceptable on so many levels. On so many levels. That's unacceptable. We're breaking child labor laws, overtime laws, we're breaking payroll laws. Like there's so many violations there. And the craziest thing about this is this particular restaurant really recruited heavily out of a local church. And so what they were doing is they were trying to manipulate these kids and thinking, well, I want to work hard. I want to show that I can be trusted and my reputation matters. And they were manipulating children into thinking it was okay to work free, which is a garbage take. That. That made me pretty upset.
Travis
Yeah, it's. It was funny that that was the exact thing that you just brought up, because I had, I had a question regarding that to some degree, because for a little bit of background, I won't go too heavy into this because probably people who listen to the show are bored of hearing me talk about, but I grew up in this fundamentalist, cultish bubble from the time I was 3 till 22 ish. So I went to. I went to. I graduated kindergarten on the same campus I graduated college from. And I went through that to that all of my schooling there, which was also where the church was and stuff. And the church and this. I'm curious in terms of like, the, the what you've done, if it ventures into like the church or nonprofit space at all. Because this is something that drove me crazy. Even when I was like there, it still didn't make complete sense to me for, for people who were employees Of. Of the. The church that were on staff, like, they were required to put in a certain number of volunteer hours. They were required to, like, be at every service that the church put on. It was like. Like, when I would look at their schedules, I was just like, oh, my gosh, dude. Like, you're working 40 plus hours a week for, like, your actual pay, but then your required, quote, unquote, volunteer work, which is no longer volunteer if you require it. But that's different conversation.
Ryan Steiger
Volunteer work. Yeah, yeah.
Travis
Then you're also working Saturdays. You're also working all day Sunday. Like, you don't. You're not having days off. You're required to be like, what? How does the nonprofit sector differ from the for profit sector with these types of labor laws and requirements and restrictions?
Ryan Steiger
So generally, no, there are some exceptions you want to watch out for. When it comes to the wage and hour stuff. Big question I get from people is, they ask, hey, since I work for a nonprofit, that means these wage and hour rules, you know, my overtime, my breaks, you know, salary rules, that doesn't apply to me, right? No, it applies to you. Even if you work for a nonprofit. Well, that's not what my boss said. Well, your boss is a liar, or they're an idiot, or maybe both. I don't know. But your boss is not telling you the truth. The thing you have to watch out for, it's not the wage and hour stuff, per se. It's the discrimination stuff. So a bona fide religious organization actually can legally discriminate against you. And this becomes very uncomfortable. For example, if you have a church, the church can say, we do not employ women in management roles here. We choose on the specific basis that they are women, and that is lawful in most cases. And you might think, wait a minute, that goes against Title vii. That goes against the California Parent Employment Housing Act. That's in California. What the hell is going on here? Well, it's because the First Amendment, the free exercise clause of our Constitution, trumps any of those labor statutes.
Travis
So what.
Ryan Steiger
What our code of laws has decided is, well, it may not make sense to outsiders. It may not make sense to people like us who prefer civil liberties. But if a religious organization, it is part of their religious doctrine, is part of their practice. Yeah. Then they can say, only men serve in certain roles. Or, of course, which makes more sense, only Muslims may work at our mosque. That makes a little more sense. So discrimination can be okay in that sense. Now, an interesting line you brought up, Trav, is let's say someone works at this church, if they're, you know, practicing their religion, they're part of this Taurus or what have you, it's okay for a religion to say, hey, if you want to be a good practitioner of our faith, this is the investment of your time. You need to come to these services, you need to sing these songs, you need to engage in these prayers, these ceremonies, things like that. They can do that. But something funny happens when you blend that line and say, this is your career. You have to come here and work. So if someone is actually going to those services and not necessarily participating in the faith, let's say they're, they're cleaning up, they're serving meals, they're handing out pamphlets, they're printing things clean, you know, that kind of stuff. Now it's starting to look like you're making them work for free. Now it's not looking so much like religious practice, and it's looking more like wage debt. That is a very interesting question you brought up, Travis.
Travis
Huh? Yeah, that was always something. That was. To me, I was just like, you gotta stop working there.
Ryan Steiger
But that would be my go to move, you know. But something funny happened, and I mentioned this in the book too. There's something peculiar about the United States where whether you're, you know, a fundamentalist Christian, a casual Christian, an agnostic or something else, these sort of old school Puritan, fundamental Christian beliefs have really woven their way in to American work culture. Even if you don't participate in it, you're affected by it. This idea that hard work leads to rewards and you shouldn't be in this just for the money. Where's, you know, where's your work ethic, that kind of stuff. Fine, you should be motivated. You should work hard for your goals. But hard work has no intrinsic value, and that's a bit of a hot take. And the reason I say that is, you know, if you put an SUV in the mud and it spins its wheels and burns a bunch of gas and throws a bunch of black smoke in the air, it's working really hard. Is it accomplishing anything? Yeah, it might. Maybe some engine damage and that. And people end up in a similar situation where they think, well, I've been told my whole life I need to work hard, not complain, put my head down, be a good worker, beef. That's the honorable thing to do, and I'll be rewarded in this life or the next. Unfortunately, that's not what happens. Yeah, that's not. And enough of us who have been around a while know that's not what happens. But we, we keep seeing people fall into it over and over again because that's all they've been taught. So I, I want this book to help shake up the narrative. I, I'm not trying to force an ideology on you. I'm just a workers rights lawyer saying, hey, across hundreds of individual claims, thousands of represented people. These are the trends I've seen. And this is how you make sure that if you're doing your work, you get, hey, well, I don't want to confront my boss. How do I tell them? I will show you how. I've got sample templates, I've got emails, I've got checklists. I teach you how to make a paper trail so that you can advocate for yourself and be as protected as possible.
Travis
We're talking about Ryan's new book that just came out with get it in Writing. So if you're listening to this right now, go pick up a copy of that. Ryan, I want to shift the conversation a little bit. How does a firefighter decide to become a workers rights attorney? And what, what, what, what happened there? Was there something that, that was like, Were you always trying to become an attorney and this was just the path for you, or was this something that that occurred?
Ryan Steiger
I was blue collar to my core, man. I, I, I was one of those blue collar guys who looked down on white collar workers for a little bit. I thought they were soft. I was like, y' all need some sunshine and fresh air. That's what you need. Telling me you don't like your desk job. I, I kid a bit, but that's, you know, I, I grew up, it's funny, I grew up in a, in a very fundamentalist Christian environment. I was, you know, hard work over everything. I was even told I should work for free. Cause that's how I proved myself. But I got into the fire service fundamentally because I, I liked helping people. It's fun to help people and it's fun to be part of a team. And even better, when you're a firefighter, you get to play with power tools and break things. It's a pretty kick ass career. Okay. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah.
Travis
But you know, in terms of all blue, blue collar jobs, like firefighter was always towards the top of my list. It was like, that would, that would be wildly interesting.
Ryan Steiger
It's pretty blue. You get to do a lot of cool stuff and I enjoyed it. It's a wonderful profession. But as I got older, a couple of things happened. I realized that you have to reverse engineer your life, Travis, you We get so fixated on the jobs that we work, we forget that the fundamental purpose of a job is to fuel your life outside work. It's to give you money for things that matter. You know, sense of purpose, a sense of pride, community, sure. But at the end of the day, if you don't have time for family, if you don't have time for health, if. If you don't have money to afford a, you know, a reasonable standard of living, what's the point of that job? And people forget that. So what happened was I. I started to realize that fire couldn't give me the light I wanted. I was missing a lot of birthdays, a lot of weddings. I. Weddings I had RSDP'd to, by the way. But then we got, you know, a fire breaks out, we go on strike team. I have no control over that. That. But, you know, your family tries to understand. You know, hats off to fire families. They sacrifice a lot so that their family members can go out and serve their community. But what people remember is that you weren't there. And they may understand the reasons and understand that maybe it wasn't in your control, but they remember you weren't there, and you remember it, too. And those experiences started to weigh on me a bit. So this little voice was like, hey, do you want to do this for the next 20, 30 years? Like, do you want to make plans and then not be sure if you can make them? That was a problem for me. The other thing that came up, and I talk about this in the book, it was the worst boss I ever had. And for the purpose of the book, I call him Joe. Joe was a very sick individual. There was something fundamentally wrong with him. He was a sadist. And hazing young firefighters was truly the only thing that brought him joy. And unfortunately, I was the youngest in that fire station, and I was an easy target. What was I going to do? I wasn't going to speak up. I didn't want to be labeled a troublemaker. I didn't want to get reassigned to some horrible station I didn't want to be part of. I wanted to stay where I was, and he knew that, and he took advantage of it. And he took all of his personal issues out on me. And it sucked because for months, I started to think I was bad. Am I a bad firefighter? Do I not deserve to be here? Am I not worthy of brotherhood, respect, all these things? Now I look back and go, none of that was true. Joe picked on me because he was unhappy. He was like the legal term Is he's a miserable prick. He decided to take it out on me. And that pushed me over the edge. I was like, there's something better out there. And it had just so happened I had participated in some union work with my chief. And I thought, hey, law seems cool, labor law seems cool. Let's give this a shot. And I made a big change. And it was scary. It was very scary making that change, but I'm glad I did it.
Travis
So how long were you in the fire service?
Ryan Steiger
For about four years, I bounced around between the San Diego County Fire Authority, Valley Center Fire Protection District, and my last year I was full time with Cal Fire. Cal Fire? Yeah. Cal Fire, formerly known as cdf, some people still call it that, but it's been Cal fire for like 15 years. You know, people need to get with the times with Cal Fire. Very amazing department, truly. I think Cal Fire, I'm going to, I'm going to glaze them a bit. Cal Fire, I think really sets a standard for what a all risk full service fire agency should look like they can handle anything. And I was very proud to be part of that organization.
Travis
And in Cal Fire, is that. Is that you. You get shifted around to fires depending on location. Like, it's different than working at like LA County Fire lac. Yeah.
Ryan Steiger
Yeah. So, you know, there's two sides to the Cal Fire coin. There's schedule A, which, you know, they'll contract counties and cities and townships and be just a regular. Your local fire station. Okay. Okay. And then there's schedule B, which is a state resource. And that's when we get the really fun job of driving up and down in huge strike teams of engines and go out into the wild wilderness and fight fire.
Travis
Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. So getting a law degree is already a not easy thing to do. You. Did you do this while you were still a firefighter? Like, were you studying for this? Did, like, did you have undergrad before you went? Like, how did. How. Tell me. Like, the technical, you know, aspect.
Ryan Steiger
Yeah. No, maybe you could do both. I wouldn't recommend it. Law school is very grueling and yeah, law school, like many things, you could coast through it. I mean, the. Certainly the opportunity is there to just sort of sleepwalk your way through it and still pass. See, get degrees. Right. But if you want to come out and be an effective advocate, an effective practitioner ready to hit the ground running and start kicking ass, you got to work hard in law school. Yeah. You need to learn and take advantage of the resources available to you. So I, I left the fire service. And I actually had to go back to undergrad just for a little bit to finish my undergrad degree. I was very impatient when I was a. In my second year of college and I, I lived across from a fire station and I just watched them all the time. What I want to do, I don't want to. What am I in college for? This is stupid. So I dropped out. Fun fact, you should probably talk to someone when you drop out. Don't just leave. I just left. They didn't tell anybody. So on my undergrad report card, there's one semester that's just like straight Fs because I didn't tell anyone I was going. And fortunately I was able to smooth it out, come back and just bang it all out, finish it. Then I went to law school. Law school was great. I gotta tell you, I loved the fire service. I was happy there until that last bit when I got assigned to Joe and he sucked the fun out of everything. But law school was the first place I went to and it really clicked. I was like, it's never been so easy to make friends. Everything just makes sense. And it was kind of cool. I couldn't quite describe it, but there was this feeling like this is where I belong. I belong here now. And I'm glad I got that fire service experience because I know what it's like to be a real human being and work like a regular job. So now as an advocate for workers, as a workers rights lawyer, I know what it's like. I get it. I can empathize with my clients in ways a lot of lawyers who just went straight through college and went into law immediately can't. I know what it's like to be that blue collar guy up at 4am busting my ass and not getting paid nearly enough for it. Yeah. And I get an idea of the work culture that people are up against too.
Travis
You've done so many, so many different things now. And I. Something I've been fascinated with recently is the ability to continuously be willing to start over. The, the reinvention of oneself can really be a challenge to your own ego in a lot of ways because you feel like, well, I've already put in the, I was the runt on the, on the engine for the first year. You know what I'm like, I was, I was, I was being hate. Like I've already done all this stuff and now I'm going to go to this other career path where I have to again, start at the bottom of the totem pole. And work my way up. And then, and then even with writing the book and, and, and then with the, the videos that you've been putting out that have obviously been doing really well for you, you had to start from scratch doing that thing and learn a new skill doing that thing. Why, why add the videos in? At what point did you decide, like, you know what I'm thinking, to give this social media, this YouTube thing a shot?
Ryan Steiger
It's funny you ask. And one thing I want to speak to in terms of starting over, Ego is your enemy. Ryan Holiday has a great book on this called Ego is the enemy. Believe it or not, you have to see yourself as a student for life. If you see yourself as someone who's already arrived, I've already put in the work, you are going to stagnate. The most high level practitioners of law that I know who've been great trial lawyers for 30 plus years, they are always attending seminars and they see themselves as students despite all of that work. So you've got to see yourself as a student for life. That said, when I made the decision to go onto social media, it wasn't like I had a plan, like, ooh, I want to get millions of followers and become attorney Ryan. That wasn't the plan at all. What happened was I graduated law school in 2020, which was Covid. I had a postpartum clerkship lined up at the da. I had this whole plan to go beyond a district attorney and prosecute bad guys and protect my community. That was plan A. But that didn't work because they pulled offers and they froze hiring and there was just no work. So I got on social media because I had no choice but to hang out a shingle and just try to get clients. And I didn't have any money. I was broke after law school. I had maybe $60 and an old computer my uncle gave me. Like things were not great. Yeah, but social media is free. So I just started posting. I thought if I can educate people about their rights, teach them the things I wish I knew, they'll trust me, they'll h me. First few videos totally flopped. No one gave a shit about them. My mom commented like, oh this is nice honey. I was like, but it didn't work. And then I, I talked to a friend. He said, why don't you try chopping these up? These videos are too long. Chop them up, throw em on TikTok, see what happens. All of those flopped except for one. One got like 60,000 views, 6,000 likes and a couple hundred comments saying how Do I hire this guy? Wait, I have this problem. How do I get you? And that's when the light bulb went off. Holy shit. I can advertise on social media for free. But I never wanted to advertise. I wanted to be an educator first. I wanted to be someone you come to as a resource to know your rights. Yeah, that was like five years ago now, Travis. Now it's evolved. And what's cool is as I've been part of the social media game for a while, I've worried less about making polished content on set schedule. I'm just myself and I weigh in my opinions, I advocate for causes I believe in. And over time, people have found, hey, this attorney Ryan guy, he is a voice for working class people. He calls out policies and bullshit he doesn't like. He explains the law and he seems to genuinely be trying. Some people don't like me. And that's okay. When you get to this level, a lot of people are going to dislike you, but I get way more loved and hate. And I'm certainly glad I put up with the discomfort of learning social media and I'm glad I chose to be a student.
Travis
Well, it seems to have led to a lot of really great things for you, including the book. And congrats to you on all the success and again, the willingness to reinvent yourself. And I appreciate you for setting that example for so many of us out here. Just trying to make it work on a daily basis. Ryan, where can people go to get more from you?
Ryan Steiger
Thanks so much, Travis. So if you're on Instagram, I'm attorney Ryan TikTok Turney Ryan Facebook, Turney Ryan threads Turney ryan but on YouTube. On YouTube, I'm attorney Ryan Steiger because someone snatched attorney Ryan and didn't do anything with it and they won't respond to my offers to buy it. So I'm ryan Steiger on YouTube and of course you can get my book. Get it in writing. The ultimate guide to your rights at work. Wherever books are sold, get it in writing.
Travis
Go pick up a copy of Ryan's book and then go check out his YouTube. Ryan Steiger. That's S t y G a R and then tourney Ryan everywhere else. Ryan, appreciate you for taking the time. I know you're a busy guy. I don't take that for granted at all. Everybody else tuning in, remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's a little bit easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Traps and Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace. Save on family essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week at Safeway and Albertsons,
Ryan Steiger
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Travis
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Episode: INTERVIEW | Make Money by Protecting Your Paycheck with Attorney Ryan
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Ryan Steiger (Attorney Ryan)
Date: May 21, 2026
This episode explores a vital—yet often overlooked—aspect of personal finance: not just how to make more money, but how to protect the money you earn, specifically your paycheck and your rights at work. Travis sits down with Ryan Steiger, better known online as "Attorney Ryan," a workers’ rights lawyer, former firefighter, and author of "Get It In Writing: The Ultimate Guide to Your Rights at Work." Ryan shares why understanding and defending your workplace rights is essential for financial growth and well-being. Throughout the episode, Ryan offers practical stories, legal advice, and insights into both employee and employer perspectives, making workplace law accessible and actionable.
This episode is a valuable resource for anyone aiming to not just earn more—but to confidently keep, protect, and grow their income. Ryan’s insights are both practical and empowering, making workplace law accessible for employees and small business owners alike.