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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis.
- [00:14]
B
Hey, what's happening everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today on the show I am talking to a friend of mine, Karine Zar. She's a leadership strategist, founder, investor and keynote speaker known for helping leaders navigate uncertainty, pivot with intention and scale without burnout. She's a creator of the Evolve methodology in the hey Korean on demand AI coaching platform and currently serves as a business coach and advisor to the Tory Burch Foundation Entrepreneurial Fellows. She's the host of the all up in your business podcast and she's advised startups, enterprise organizations, high performing executives blending strategic rigor with human centered leadership to drive sustainable results. Karine, how are you? Welcome to the show.
- [00:53]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [00:55]
B
Of course, of course. Let's dive back into history a little bit.
- [01:00]
C
Sure.
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B
Tell me, tell me the first time that you made a dollar that you were just blown away that this is, that this was becoming real. That, that like the exciting time that you, that you made a dollar.
- [01:15]
C
I mean I feel like I was always excited about money, about earning only because like as a kid I would, you know, my family actually would call me the bank which is, it would just kind of funny in that I would do jobs, you know, whether it's babysitting or like helping out somewhere, whatever it was like someplace way shape or form to earn. And I would always hold on to it. Like I would, I would only spend if I really loved something or I felt like it had purpose or I felt like it had longevity. And it's, that's just been a long standing side of my money story. I guess.
- [01:54]
B
Your family, if your family nicknamed you that, then I assume that the rest of your family did not share that principle.
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C
I think what they were always. There was different ways of spending in my family. Yes. Like there was, I would say my, my older sister, like if she saw it, she'd want it. She wouldn't even think about it and she would figure out a way to get it or, or convince somebody to get it for her. And then my, my mom was definitely someone who liked nice things and was really into like, you know, my parents came up in the materialistic years of the 90s, so there was that like quick grab of that's the nice, shiniest, latest thing, so let's spend there. And I always felt like if it didn't last, what was the point? You know. So I was observing yes. Their behaviors, but I also felt like there was a different value in possessions and things back then.
- [02:47]
B
Did you want to be in business at that time?
- [02:51]
C
So as a yes. I. My, my dad teases me especially he used to, he was a president and CEO of commodities trading firm. And so I used to go to his office and I would kick him out of his chair in his office and be like, I'm the president now. I just had this drive to want to lead, to want to run something. I don't know where it came from, but there was always something in me that felt as if that was a place for me.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah. So did you go that route immediately? Did you like tell me, tell me, like bridge together these, the journey of earnings over time.
- [03:30]
C
Yeah. So the biggest lesson for me that I learned about how the importance of career in other people's containers. So being employed by others to earn. I found that growth was a really strong value of mine after I hit a glass ceiling in a company at the age of 24. So when I, I got a business degree, I was very fortunate that I had my education, you know, paid for and I was able to get a really solid business degree from GW. And then I picked up everything, I sold everything. I had collected as much cash as I could and I moved to California. I was in D.C. at the time. Moved to California because I knew if I didn't go back, if I didn't do something like that, I would have just ended up in New York and it would have been non stop. Like that would have been my life and I wanted to explore more. So I had to start from nothing. I didn't have a real community around me. I found out I had a cousin in San Francisco that was really cool to let me stay for a couple days. I hustled, I did some temp jobs. I finally got a full time job, was paying well at the time. And then there was a moment where management changed and I had overextended myself. I pushed really hard. I felt like you had to prove yourself in order to earn and climb. I was very career focused. And then the new manager, when she started, I had a one on one with her and I was like, hey look, I was hired for this. It was, I was a systems analyst. And then I'm really doing all of this, running all this. I need to understand, is there a growth path here for me because I had been at the same salary and I had, I had not really been directed well from other people. I was excited she had joined, maybe I'll learn something from her. And she literally said to me, I don't know what you're complaining about, what you're doing is your job. And all I was looking for, because I'll tell you that my head at that time was all about like the corporate climb. Because I had the story in my head that if I climbed to the highest position I could, then I would be financially secure. It was, it was literally a financial driver for me in my 20s. So when she came at me with that statement, I was like, oh, this is not the system, like working under her. If that's her attitude towards me, I'm never going to let the limitations of others become my own. And she's definitely not going to mess with my money, you know. Yeah. You know, my potential to earn that way. So I ended up that conversation was on a Thursday. And the following Monday I resigned. Not having a absolute plan other than begging my roommate at the time to be like, can you cover costs while I figure this out? You know, But I had enough aside to like stretch a little bit. But it was a, it was really standing in my values of let me go find a company I can grow with.
- [06:13]
B
So what did you do from there? Was it, was it job hunting? Was it side gigs, hustles?
- [06:17]
C
What did you do? It was job hunting at that time, because at the time I wasn't really familiar with the side hustle game, you know, or the, or the ability to earn my own entrepreneurial. I knew I had an entrepreneurial mindset, but I didn't know the containers of that. I mean 24, 25 back in the day, no real Internet. I was just starting out. Like you couldn't really have the exposure we have today. My God, if I had access to what we have today, what I think I would, what I would have done and my 20s would have been quite different. But what was good was that it taught me to look for a company next and not accept an offer unless I knew it was a growth based company. So three, it took about two months when I landed my next job, which was an actual pay cut initially, but I saw the growth potential in that company and it was a fintech company that really actually was treated like a startup. So the way I manage that, and I'll just quickly tell you is the difference here is that when I look back at the job I had before that woman had to replace me with two people. One person to lead and one person that that could be the doer. And all I asked for was a growth plan. So I knew that. And it was also. She replaced me with two men. Not, you know, like, it was a very distinct time of life, you know, like in the journey of what could push things forward at that time. So in this company, what was awesome, the new company I joined, I got promoted because of my acumen and the way I chose to lead my career. Every six months I got a step up in pay, a step up in responsibility, and it was a company that I could climb within. So in about 5 years, I went from maybe 35k to. I think I ended up at at least 225. And that back then, that was. That's a big jump in a career, you know, a five year career now. Yeah, it's a great career now. True. But back then that was like unheard of.
- [08:15]
B
Especially for, I was gonna say, especially for a 30 year old.
- [08:18]
C
Yeah. By the time I was 29 and I was running and I went from business analyst to VP of merger and acquisition operations, so not only did they let me stretch and expand my skill set, but they really allowed me to also grow, get the compensation, et cetera. But what I'll tell you that I think your listeners need to hear too is sometimes the chase for the money grab is not what actually fills you up. Because by the time I was hitting all those things, I was living between New York, Denver and San Francisco. At the time, I had no real personal life. I. My health wasn't great. All the other things were falling apart. But there was a story within me.
- [09:06]
A
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- [10:49]
C
That was like, Karine, just reach financial security so you can make your own decisions for yourself.
- [10:55]
B
What did you. Did you have a definition for financial
- [10:57]
A
security at that time?
- [10:58]
B
Was there a specific goal you were looking for?
- [11:00]
C
It was, you know, I had a mindset of if I could make sure my expenses were one fourth of what I was earning and that one fourth of what I was earning actually afforded me a great life. Like, let me choose what I wanted to do, where I would want to spend it. To me, that felt financially secure. I wasn't very much into the savings or creating like retirement accounts, although those things were given to me through that company at the time. Yeah. But that's what internally brought me. Security is that if I ever lost that job or if any I could, like I had an enough aside to. To withstand a few months. Sure. But really those were the risks. Risk taking years in my acumen, you know, like, yeah, so.
- [11:45]
B
So overall, how much time did you spend like in the corp climbing the corporate ladder?
- [11:50]
C
That was. So at the end of that stint, I realized that I looked above me and I was like, okay, I don't want to grow into any of those people. Like, I don't want that role and responsibility. My career has been so unique that
- [12:03]
B
that is a fantastic thing to do for anybody listening right now. That was what got me out of door to door sales and into like podcasting and online business stuff was taking a look around me.
- [12:12]
C
Do I want to be these people.
- [12:13]
B
I mean this has been cool so far. I've learned a lot. I've gained a lot of experience, got some stories to tell. But also like I don't want to be 53 and still knocking on doors for a living. Not say that that's a bad, you know, path. And, and I'm sure you would say the same thing. It's like it's not bad. It's just not for me or outgrew it.
- [12:31]
C
The way I saw it was like I graduated. Like it was time to, to make a change at the time too. I had to relocate back to San Francisco and I didn't want to live there anymore. I had had done stints in Colorado and New York at the in that time period. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm just going to resign and figure it out. I'm going to figure out whatever this next is. I just know this isn't it.
- [12:55]
B
Well, it seemed to work out the last time that you did that.
- [12:57]
C
Yeah, it's a, it's because of the resourcefulness. You know, I think anybody is able. But I'm very strategic minded. So I think that is a differentiator maybe that I have. A lot of people might not have practice frameworks of strategy or understanding how to, to make calculated risks. In this case though, I had a good chunk aside. I also bought a house in Colorado that was one fourth of my earnings. So if I only, if I only was able to earn half of what I was earning at that time, it still would have been something I could manage. So it was very calculated financially. I have to see the numbers. That's the other thing I learned about myself because I was making big decisions in this company. It taught me in order to strategically maneuver, know your numbers right? Understand that if you need to make a big move, you financially have to back it. I was lucky that I was doing it on someone else's dime, right? Yeah.
- [13:56]
B
But also you weren't allowing your lifestyle to prevent you from being able to move from place to place, which is I think the prison that people build for themselves. Especially in that corporate world where they are chasing the next promotion, they're chasing the next raise, they're chasing the next title bump. And then in that chase, they don't buy a house that's only 25% of what they earn. They max their debt to income ratio. They get the third car, they get the vacation home. Running on debt now you got the handcuffs. Because it's like, well, if I leave this job to go do this other thing. I got to find a job that's going to pay me as much or more than that job, or I have to start a business, and I have. And that business has to pay me what I was making at this job, which isn't going to happen at first for. Especially if you've never done it before. So you just end up staying there. Right. For 30 years, you know, because, like, I can't, I can't move. There's no flexibility here. I have too much debt. I have too much, too many payments. My, my lifestyle creep is, is cannibalizing all of the, the income that I keep increasing. And now you're just, you're stuck. There's nothing you can do about it.
- [15:07]
C
Also, I think I've seen, because I've coached a lot of leaders in large companies as well, when the salary is a little bit inflated in order to keep you there, it's really hard to say I have to make all these changes in order to fulfill what I want in my life, you know, And I think an apathy can set in too, which then actually blocks what you're able to earn fully. Because if you're, if you're kind of in that energy state of like, I'm not worth more, I can't create more. You know, the, the way you talk to yourself. It's why I do a lot of mindset work around money with my clients. Is that you, you. It's a blocker for what you're actually able to receive. Because we're all resourceful. Like, we all have something to offer. We all have something we could build on, we can take even within companies. When I do work with execs and in companies, I was like, have you maximized the system you're in? Right? Like, okay, maybe it might not come up in pay, but will it come up in fulfillment? Like, is there an activity, a skill set or something you want to learn that's going to keep you excited to stay here and collect that check? And then let's go look at your finances too and say, you know what? That's stressing you out. How do we get the plan together to mitigate the risk around carrying that debt, et cetera?
- [16:25]
B
That, to me is like the root cause of why the lifestyle creep continues to increase with your income is that if you have, if you're, if you're, and especially in those types of cultures, you're probably not only working 40 hours a week, you're probably working closer to 60 hours a week. And it's like if you're spending the majority of the time that your eyes are open on this planet doing something that brings you next to no fulfillment, then the money that you're making, you, you've duped yourself into thinking that the goal is then to use the money to go find other things that are fulfilling in your free time that you have none of.
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C
Right. Right.
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B
So like, so that's why you buy the car because it makes you feel better about yourself, makes you feel like there's. I'm, I'm putting numbers on the scoreboard here. That's why you get the two thousand dollar Gucci bag instead of just buying a bag for fifty bucks or whatever. Yeah, that's, that's how you get into this hole.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Because you, you, you don't get any fulfillment from the thing that you do. So you're.
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C
They're nothing agents.
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B
Yeah. You're seeking that somewhere else. You're using the money as a proxy to, to hope that it solves that problem.
- [17:29]
C
And in reality to no, it's a temporary hit. Just as if there, if even if it's going out for happy hour every day and you're like, you're getting that little bit of an ease through a substance. It's the same hit in your body buying that certain thing that might overextend you, but you're excited because it's new. You can brag about, shows you that you maybe have accomplished a certain status. But if you're feeling broken by the time you put your head down on the pillow because you're stressed about finances and where that's going to come or who you had to become in order to stand in that scenario, it can be so, so daunting.
- [18:06]
B
So when, where along the journey did the like working for yourself entrepreneurial journey begin?
- [18:13]
C
Yeah, so the first stint was right after that resignation of that growth based company and I had all this acumen. I became self employed and took on contracts, made the same money I was making in San Francisco, but only working 35 hours a week. So that was the first time where I used my acumen as a trade of time for money in a way that I could control. Because when you're employed it's still a trade of time for money. It's just under their system. This was the first time it was under my own system and I did that for about five years and then I actually did go back into corporate for a short stint. Different startups, which has a different energy than what I had joined previously for another, because I had moved back to Jersey, I got married. I wanted to focus on the relationship and just see how another. I used to say my wedding was funded by that company I worked for because I needed to figure that out. But then I realized, no, I have to work for myself again. So the real shift that I wanted to share with you, Travis, that happened for me as an entrepreneur. So that I would say I was this business I've had now for 11 years. So the business I have now. And so it was 2015. 20. Yeah. When I initiated it, I initially went into the model, I knew training time for money as a like self employed. But at that time, now I'm an executive leadership coach. I'm doing strategic work like it's a much more high end offering than what I had previously because of the gains I had over the years. And I realized three years into it, I was like, what am I doing? I'm only. The limiting thoughts I had at that time was I always thought in six figures, like we're taught to be, like, I'll get a six figure salary. Like I didn't really have the concept even of what does it mean to scale and build a business. Right. And I was like, why am I treating myself this way where I'm employing myself? I gave myself a job. Yeah, I have more, I have more autonomy. I can decide where I get paid. Like I was. There was some control that I enjoyed about it. But I still have to show up and work for someone else in order to earn. Something's gotta give. So I talk about this all the time now in my method, my evolve method, because this is the evolve mindset. It's like 90, 10, 10% of your time. Like how much can you maximize with only 10% of your time? So when I scaled my business from just me in it, I knew I had to have a Stretch Goal of 7 Figures of Earnings in order to get out of my own way.
- [20:45]
B
Yeah.
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C
Because I didn't want to work 40 hours a week at 500 an hour. I could, I could definitely do that, but that sounds so stressful to me and not what I wanted. So I was like, karine, what if you built a seven figure strategy only leveraging 10% of your time? What business would that be? And how could you build and scale that? And so I did an assessment on myself, like, what do you do really well? What can you sell really well? And then who do you need in it on your team or to execute against it so that it can make that happen? And I'll tell You there's just that shift in the mindset of getting out of my own way and figuring out an earnings model. I hit seven figures in sales in less than six months in my business,
- [21:28]
B
just by shifting the mindset and then having the business move in that direction.
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C
Right.
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B
What was the difference in, like, offer structure?
- [21:36]
C
So I was very fortunate at the time. I was working for a BlackRock, you know, trillion dollar asset management company, and I was consulting with a managing director of the product team. And when I had set that goal, I was like, you know what I've never done? I've never asked him what. What he wants to do for this next year in a way that makes me position myself. Can I source who he needs? So I ended up designing a true consulting and recruitment firm from this concept, which has a really nice margin to it, but also it's still in the realm that I know really well that I can have strategic oversight. That's my 10%. I could source the rest. So I had this amazing call with him where he literally, because I had been coaching him for so long, he just laid out everything for me. He's like, this is what I want to accomplish. I said, you know what? I see gaps on what you want to accomplish and who you actually have on your team with the skillset required to get that done. Like, would you mind if I meet with your direct reports, have a conversation with them on what you're going to charter them against, and then talk to them about the expertise that I can help bring in potentially for them. And that's what literally initiated it. It was having the relationship, understanding the demand they could have, and then just presenting, here's a service I can offer. And it was like a Hail Mary. I didn't know, and they could easily have said no, but I ended up sourcing almost, you know, a million in services that year because contracts like that, with high expertise in a company like that to deliver complex products. Right. Was able to do that. And then I repeated it with other relationships I had had.
- [23:20]
B
And now speaking and podcasting and everything that you do now. What do you enjoy the most?
- [23:26]
C
I enjoy really working with leaders that are feeling like they're stuck in that overwhelm, but they, they need the sounding board and the path to strategically pivot in order to drive things forward for them. I truly stand right now, Travis, and in that I'm meant to be a conduit for other people's goals, dreams, ambitions, because I feel like we need everybody's gifting in the world, especially now. And so the more I can do that kind of work, the more satisfied I am. Really excites me.
- [24:01]
B
Karina, I really appreciate the time you've taken to join us on the show. I know you're a busy person, so I don't take that for granted. Where can people go to get more from you?
- [24:07]
C
Well, I do want to share with your listeners if they want to tweak that money mindset at all. I do have a workbook and a video that they can grab. It's@heycarene.com moneymindset and it's really fun tool. I use it with partners and leaders in business all the time because if you're clear on that and shift for what it is you want, the money starts to flow. So heykarene.com is also where you can get access to my app if you want to connect with me on Instagram, it's thereal kareenz to connect there. But truly just DM me. I'm happy to connect.
- [24:44]
B
Heykarene.com go check out some of the stuff that Karine has over there. Heykarene.com moneymindset to shift your money mindset. Go get more from her over there. Thank you so much for joining us on the show, Karine. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's a little bit easier to solve the rest of your problems. We got money in the bank, so let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.