← Travis Makes Money
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Apro vecha los ahoros de Memorial Day in los y compra los vasicos parelo gar pormenos ahoro centadolares en la parria gas de cuatro que madores char broil performance series. Foreign.
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You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's mission to help you make more money. Today on the show I have a new friend, Josh Whalen. Josh is the co founder and CEO of Joy and Blokes, a diagnostics telehealth platform he founded and scaled with his wife Katie back in 2015. 21. After being diagnosed with low testosterone and recognizing the gaps in treatment regarding hormone health, vitality and aging in traditional healthcare, Josh initially founded Blokes to transform the way men think about their long term well being and then subsequently added Joy with his wife Katie to address health challenges that women disproportionately face. Since its founding, Joan Blokes has supported approximately 80,000 total patients and achieved a $50 million run rate, almost entirely self funded. His mission is to challenge outdated narratives, bring science backed solutions to the forefront and empower men to take char charge of their health so you can thrive at every stage of life. Josh, what's up dude? Welcome to the show.
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A
What's up Travis? Thanks for having me.
- [01:39]
B
Of course man. Let's first off, go back in time. Tell me the first time you ever made a dollar that you were really excited about.
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A
You know what? I, it goes way back. I mean my, my, the first dollar I ever made, I was, I was actually working on a farm with my, my uncle in Iowa doing all kinds of crazy stuff, man. Shoveling pig sties and detasseling all kinds of farmer Iowa stuff and making 15 bucks an hour back in like 1995, which was quite a bit, but it was hard work. So that, that's, that's when I first got my first taste of money.
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B
Any core lessons you feel like you took away from that experience, you know?
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A
Yeah, I mean I think hard work just gets you some type of reward. You know, I, I lived in North Carolina at the time and I had a bunch of family in Iowa, so you know, nobody was employing a 14 year old in North Carolina at the time. And I took the summer and decided to go up To Iowa. Wrestle while I was there, and work hard and make some. Make some summer money. But just working hard gets you. Gets your rewards.
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B
Yeah, the early recognition that if I do this, then I will get. This is a pretty valuable lesson to learn early on. What did you end up doing, like, post high school?
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A
So I went to. Man, what a story. I ended up going to basic training right after high school at Fort Knox, Kentucky, I ended. And then I went to New Mexico Military Institute for about a year. I ended up getting kicked out because I was just a mess. I was a hot mess. I would love basic training, but I was. I was on this pathway to go to the Naval Academy, and I got nominated. If you know anything about that process, there's two. There's two steps. You got to get a Congress or congressional or senator nomination. I got the nomination for both a senator and a congressman in Colorado at that time, but I didn't get the appointment. So that's the second piece that you need to get the appointment is your acceptance. So what they did is they said, hey, your grades are okay, your ACT SAT is okay, but you're good athletes. So we want you to come to the Naval Academy. We want you to play some sports. Well, I end up not getting accepted, so they said, go to this military school. It was a preparatory school in Roswell, New Mexico. So I went there for a year, ended up just hating it. Flunked out. I had a 1.2 GPA. And. And then I. After that, I was lucky enough that. That a school would take me. And that school is University of Northern Iowa and Cedar Falls. So it's called uni, home of Kurt Warner and the Unidome. So I was there, and then I went to Chicago right after.
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B
Dang. So what did you end up getting your degree in?
- [04:13]
A
I was marketing. Marketing? Business Administration. Marketing. Yeah. So I would, you know, I. I didn't really know what I was doing. I just wanted to. To get a degree and have some fun coming out of. Coming out of military school. I was locked down for, you know, damn near a year. And it was a really challenging, hard curriculum. I mean, I think I had 19 credit hours my first semester to include things like chemistry and physics and. Because they were really trying to cram as much in to get you into the military academy. And I just. I didn't mesh very well with it.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like it. No. No. Didn't come across any UFOs or aliens out there in Roswell.
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A
Dude. You know, it's crazy, man. You drive in and you see all these billboards and you see all this crazy stuff, and that's what it's known for. Yeah, Roswell, it's. It's not. It's not really a pleasant city. The first thing I hear, man, I'm not kidding you, when I say this was 119 degrees. You know, we lived in Colorado Springs at that time. We drove down there, and they're like, oh, my God, what is this place? I mean, it's in the middle of the desert, and all you see is all these, like, you know, toy shops and, like, you know, tourist shops, and it's all alien stuff, all alien souvenirs.
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B
I think I still have some from the time I visited Roswell when I was a kid somewhere.
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A
Yeah, I didn't see any, but I would have loved to. I mean, now I think we know there. They might be real, actually. So.
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B
Yeah, it seems like I just saw a post. Somebody posted something that. It was like a. They were opening more files about.
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A
About that.
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B
But, you know, who knows what to believe about that stuff.
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A
I know, it's crazy. I think what. I think it will probably happen. And they'll go, yeah, we have them. We've identified them. And people will just go about their day. It's not like big Independence Day, Armageddon, you know.
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B
Right. Well, and still. And I feel like just a lot of people still won't believe it. They'll be like, yeah, that's AI. That's Photoshop, that's whatever, like. Or that's like, that's. That's China, That's Russia. You know, like, it'll be. It'll basically be impossible to believe for a majority of the population until we actually, like, have evidence that is, like, completely not able to be fictionalized. You know what I mean? Okay, so. So you end up getting undergrad in. In marketing. What'd you do after. What'd you do after college? Just go directly to work, you start.
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A
Yeah, I bounced around, man. I. My. My first job out of college was with a. I went into outside sales right away, and I worked for a company called Pella Windows. Pelo is a big window manufacturer out of Pella, Iowa.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I got hired right out of college with those guys, and they said, hey, we want you to live in Chicago. So I was. I had a territory of the Chicago region. What's that?
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B
Was it residential?
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A
It was residential. And, you know, I'll tell you, their playbook was here at that time. You got to imagine, like, the Internet was just kind of coming in and, like, you know, I remember I print out MapQuest, but then I had my own actual maps, you know, so Google was like, this anomaly was like, so they literally hand you a book and a very small cell sheet of data. People that are in the area that purchase homes and they said, go out on your way and figure it out, kid. And I got to tell you, I got, I got hit in the face pretty hard. I was like, I don't know what this outside sales things is and you know, the organization and just the grit to keep, you know, going after customers. And my customers at that time were, you know, gcs. And I, I knew nothing, man, I, I knew nothing about Chicago living in a big city, let alone selling windows. And so I was there, I was with those guys for a little bit and then I ended up getting recruited to a company called Stryker and I was in their instruments and spine division. So large medical device company. And that was really where I kind of, I guess give me my roots of like running and operating my own business. Because that was the first time that somebody said, hey, we trust you and we're gonna put you in these high degree settings of selling to neurosurgeons and ortho spine surgeons and we're going to give you a training program, but we're going to, we're going to teach you how to sell. And you know, that was kind of what I credit towards putting me on this war path in my career.
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B
So, so medical device sales essentially.
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A
Yeah.
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B
What's crazy man is like it speaks to the volume of sales organizations that just have terrible sales training programs. You know, it's like, it's clear that you could, you could have done the window job effectively going into something that's more technically complicated and, and as you speak to a higher status, call it level of customer, you could have easily done the window thing, but nobody ever told you what to do or how to say it or exactly, you know, what you were doing. It was just kind of like, hey, go figure it out. And if you don't figure it out, we're going to put another hundred people in that role until somebody just figures it out. And then you get and put an organization where they're like, hey, let's give you the tools that are necessary in order for you to be successful here. And then turns out you see some success. You know, crazy.
- [08:57]
A
I, I really, I've talked about this before and I feel very grateful that they didn't give me the playbook to success at Pella and because I could still be selling Windows, quite frankly, I have no idea. I could be making, you know, 100 grand selling windows. And it was, it was a good lesson of learning what I didn't want to do more than what I wanted to do. And, you know, I just feel grateful that, that it didn't work out because, you know, Stryker opened up and it was a great opportunity for me. And you know, the thing that Stryker did a great job at is putting you around a bunch of competitive individuals and kind of lived off of one another. Even though you had a little bit of sales training. I mean, they kind of threw you to the wolves, but you really wanted to be in that crowd and you really want to be competitive. And I think that probably the, the hardest challenge for me going from Pella to that was I went from selling to general contractors to selling to neurosurgeons and orthopedic spine surgeons. And they're a different breed one mentally. And then, and then just financially, you got to think they're like in the top 1% of, of, of any demographic from a financial perspective, and they're certainly in the top 1% when it comes to just mental aptitude.
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B
Yeah, right.
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A
There was a really, it was a really wake up call. But what, what it forced me to do was really hone in on what the hell I was doing.
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B
Yeah, no kidding. In medical device sales, just so people can get an idea. And this isn't necessarily asking you what you made doing that if you don't want to share. But, but what, what would somebody expect to make if they do well in that industry?
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A
Well, I'll tell you, I, I have no problem sharing that. And that was probably the attraction of why I want it to go. I, I, I was sitting down with a buddy of mine who was a punter at University of Northern Iowa, and he said, hey man, you need to get a job at this company. I, I've been here now, I think he was there for like three or four years. And he's like, I'm making 400 grand a year. I'm like, man, you're not making 400 grand. And he's like, dude, I swear to God, man, I'm working in this neuro division and you need to come do it. It's better than anything I've ever done. And so that was the immediate attraction. It wasn't, I didn't even give a shit what it was at that time.
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B
And yeah, my 400 grand is 400 grand.
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A
I mean, and you got to understand, I'm, I'm in my mid to late 20s. At that point, I wouldn't went from making, you know, 60, 80 grand, and that was kind of the norm then to sitting down with my buddy, having a beer gone dude, as I'm making damn near a half a million bucks. I didn't. It took me a while to believe him, and I finally did.
- [11:27]
B
And in Iowa, too.
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A
Well, I was. So I was in Chicago at that time.
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B
Okay, okay, gotcha.
- [11:34]
A
And he was in Kansas City. I mean, Stryker covers the whole. They're global, actually. And he said, hey, man, I'll. I'll keep you in the loop if I hear of anything coming up. And I was fortunate that something did come up. And it was kind of a Chicago, Milwaukee territory. And apparently it was like 500 guys who applied. But my progression was. I think the first year I made 150. And then they said, hey, you know what? We're going to give you a bigger territory, but we're going to make you move up to Appleton, Wisconsin. I'm like, I don't want to live in Appleton, Wisconsin. For anybody who doesn't know, Appleton's about 30 miles south of Green Bay, Wisconsin. So I had pretty much the whole, you know, eastern side of the state, from Milwaukee all the way. All the way to Marquette, So a massive territory. But I went from making 150 to about 280. And then I said, you know what? I'm crushing it here in Wisconsin. I gave it one more year, and I. And I max out the territory. And I said, listen, I've been doing this long enough now. I've done a good job. I want to get back home. I grew up in Colorado, so I said, I want to take over the Denver territory. And they gave me that opportunity. And from there, it was just. It was just progression, you know, I think. I think I. I maxed out close to half a million bucks, you know, my last year at Stryker.
- [12:43]
B
Yeah, it's a great. It's a great industry to be in, man. It's one of the few ones that I did not touch when I was doing a bunch of sales was. Was medical device. But it was always something that kind of held my attention, and I knew that people were making really good money doing that. How long were you there then?
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A
Close to five years.
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B
Okay. And. And this is like mid-20s.
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A
I was. When I left, I was. I think I was. God, I might have been 30 years old.
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B
Okay.
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A
I was. I was young. I was a pop. Especially in. In the grander scheme of where I'm at now, I'm 44 years old. I got all kinds of grays coming in too, which is crazy.
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B
Where, where were you financially when you left? Like, were you really intentional about that? Were you, were you thinking about future opportunities? Were you just be like, hey, this is the first time I made money. Let me get a truck, let me get a cool house. Like, what were you doing financially? What was your personal finance philosophy?
- [13:33]
A
You know, man, I didn't really have one. I wish I was more intentional about it. You know, when I, when I graduated from college, it was, you know, just trying to figure my life out and, you know, party a little bit. I played rugby at a very high level, so I was just getting my shit together and then, and then Stryker came to me and I really didn't even look at like this, you know, five year, ten year plan. I just put my head down, worked my ass off, never touched my money outside of going out to dinner with, you know, the girlfriend I had. I mean, dude, I drove a Ford Focus for Christ's sakes. So I was not living high on the hog. And then I eventually upgrade it, but it took me a while. Yeah, I didn't really have a plan other than just banking it. So the biggest thing I did, like one of the things I wanted to do was like, I always believed in real estate. And I was like, I gotta get a home. And at that point I was in Denver. And if you know anything about Denver, you know, over the last 30 years it's just been, you know, it's been a, it's been a rocket ship in terms of real estate. So that was probably my biggest purchase that I was saving up for. And I bought a home in an area of Denver called Wash park, which is a pretty affluent neighborhood. I got like a three bedroom, two bath bungalow that, you know, I think I paid a little over 400 grand for, that's now worth about 1.5. So I was pretty big on that train and everything else. I just kind of banked.
- [14:50]
B
So bridge the gap now. So you, you quit around 30. You're 44 now. That would put you somewhere around 38, 39. When you started this company. What, what, what happened in the, in the, in between? Did you go do more sales? Did you start another, you start a business for the first time? Tell me, tell me what happened.
- [15:07]
A
Yeah, so, you know, I, I'll give you just a little background on my departure with Stryker. So I was doing really well. I was on this fast track to be in upper management and I end up butting heads with this New VP of sales that came in for Medtronic and Medtronic and Striker guys are, they can, they can get along pretty well, but they're kind of different breeds. Striker guys are usually a lot, a lot of ex athletes and the Medtronic guys are a little bit, just a little bit different than, than the way we look. So it was kind of like water and oil. So I left and I wanted to see if the grass was greener and I started my own distributorship. I did something similar to what I was doing at Stryker. I took all my similar call points. I said, okay, who, who, who do I have the best relationships with? They slapped me with a non compete. So I was like, let me try to maximize it. You know, my relationships pick up new products. I had a bunch of guys that originally go, dude, I'm with you. I'm going to come, I'm going to, I'll use you just pick up a product. Because I had really good relationships. And then I started my, my distributorship and I got hit in the face, man. Like not, not once. I got hit in the face like 10 times. And you know, I'm, I'm going to all my existing relationships and all the guys that said, josh, I got your back. And they're like, sorry, man, I, I'm, I can't use it. The hospital says this hospital says that. And you know, maybe I'll give you, get you in and work in. It was really a challenge for, for about eight months I didn't have a single paycheck and I had a mentor at the time. And I went to my mentor and I said, hey man, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna give up. I might throw the towel in. And I said, I'm gonna get unemployment. And he goes, dude, don't do that, man. That. If you're doing that, you are throwing the towel in. And he's like, just keep down. You're doing the right things. I was doing all the right things. I was, I, my process was great, but nothing was connecting. I didn't have any dollars coming in. And I, and I get getting closer and closer and closer. And then all of a sudden I got my one cell and it was like, okay, I made 2,000 bucks that month. I was like, holy, I might be able to do this. I didn't. I, at this point, my savings had been damn near drained. Yeah, the next month it was 4, and then the next month it was 10. And then the next month it was 20. And it just all started to compound. And, and, and so I had a, you know, within a year and a half, two years, I had a pretty thriving distributorship, medical device distributorship. And I expanded from Colorado to Arizona to Wyoming, had a little bit of, little bit of business in Utah. I had about 15 sales reps working under me. And what I did is I just found all the call points, all the doctors that I knew, and I found anything that would be in our bag that I can maximize that sale. So, you know, I didn't need 5,000 doctors, I need a hundred. And I would maximize those relationships and I would find just a unique enough product where I can get my edge or get in, build a relationship long term. And so that was really kind of the first step. And I did really well there. And then I kind of just rode some waves, man. I, I, I, I wrote, you know, I got into compounding pharmacies, I got into diagnostic labs, similar what we're doing now. And then, you know, as those were kind of peaking and going down, I started a bunch of regenerative medicine clinics, I. E. Stem cells. And we had four of those. And those, those were crushing. I mean, I was like, holy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna open up a hundred of these. Because I was treating a disease state. Well, the, our clinicians were called osteoarthritis oa. So lots of knees, lots of hips, lots of shoulders. But if you know anything about OA, it really doesn't start creeping into your 50s, 60s and 70s. And as those were starting to peak, Covid hit and it literally shut down our business. Not only did it shut it down from a regulatory perspective, it shut us down because these 60 year old people were not leaving their house. Like I said, it didn't matter. I couldn't, I couldn't even pay people to leave the house to come get a medical treatment, let alone an $8,000 procedure. Right. And that was really kind of the start of, you know, what ended up being joy and blokes. And I had no idea that it would come to fruition, but it was really just kind of the, the final straw that made me look at my own health.
- [19:09]
B
So did you shut down operations with that company? Did you just basically pivot it into the first iteration of blokes? What was that transition period look like? What did that look like? And then also financially, what was the, the company flush with cash? Were you able to withstand that period? Tell me a little bit about the nitty gritty.
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A
Oh, yeah. So good question. So we, when, when Covid Hit we, there was about a two month period where we didn't do anything. We literally shut the clinics down. You know, the staff relax. We think, we think this is going to blow over. We didn't know it was going to be that long. It dramatically changed our business. Prior to Covid, we would see five to ten patients a day. And there were their elective procedures that averaged around $8,000 a procedure. And we had four clinics, so very, very concierge, like very white glove regenerative medicine. And after Covid, the market just changed completely. And then we had to start taking insurance. So as soon as that happened, our whole business model changed. We went from doing 25 million in revenue to basically about 8. We had a great run for about a year and a half, two years, and as that was peaking, it just completely shut down. And as soon as we started taking insurance is when I said, I'm done with it, I don't want to do this anymore. Because we went from seeing five to 10 patients to 50 to 60 a day.
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B
Oh my God.
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A
And, and Travis, we were making a quarter of what we were making. And you have to understand, the market just didn't catch up for a while. I think it's, it's somewhat back in that space. But we were kind of a one trick pony. That was our sell. We were like, we're experts in this. We're not primary care, we're not internal med. This is what we do. Everybody's trained in this. We do fluoroscopy, we do ultrasound. And it just changed the whole dynamic of the business. So to your question, we had fortunately did pretty well and we were fortunately able to exit. We sold the businesses to the clinicians that were in it. And we just said, hey, we're kind of good. And at the same time, there were some things brewing with, with blokes that, that, you know, wasn't planned. There was no, there was no roadmap. It was just me going through my personal health struggles and then going through the health channels that everybody goes through, internal med docs, you know, primary care docs, and just really being gaslit. And I was like, there's no way this is this hard. There's no way that they've made so much friction for a guy to feel good.
- [21:33]
B
Yeah.
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A
And that's when I finally started getting the resources I needed because I had lost my sex drive. I gained 60 pounds. I hadn't been in the gym. I mean, I was just a total mess. My wife was ready to divorce me because I just had Changed. I had no energy, didn't want to play with the kids. I didn't want to do shit.
- [21:50]
B
Yeah.
- [21:51]
A
And I just got lucky that I saw this at that time, you know, rewind. Six years ago, this optimization guru, well before everybody was talking about diagnostics, well before everybody was talking about longevity. And he put me on this war path, man. And that ultimately is what created joy and blokes.
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B
Interesting. Okay, so you basically were trying to figure out a solution to your own problem.
- [22:13]
A
A hundred percent.
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B
You get in touch with the knowledge, the information, and then you go, this was wildly helpful for me. Why is this not more widely available to more men?
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A
It was, it was. There was a massive hole that I saw in the market. Now listen, the market's changed a lot in the last five years.
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B
Yeah. Especially in this space.
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A
Yeah, 1%. And. But when we were coming out, nobody knew what the hell a GOP one was. Nobody was talking about labs. And if you were talking about labs, we were shunned because we were saying, hey, we can do all these labs at a fraction of the cost. Oh, by the way, we don't take insurance. But that's a good thing. Now people are, you know, coming around and saying, well, okay, great. Nobody knew what a peptide was. Hell, BPC some, Moreland none. Nobody knew what that was. So our path was really interesting. Like we went for massive amounts of education on from the onset, like trying to educate why you should get your labs done, what the hell a peptide was, why testosterone is important to. Oh, shit, now everybody's doing it. And how do you beat your competition to get the customer, you know? So it's been an interesting journey.
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B
What is a peptide? Can you give us an explanation?
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A
Yeah. So, you know, there's tons of peptides in the space. FDA approved. There's compounded peptides. A peptide is simple. It's a short chain of amino acids, a building block for a protein. Most common peptide besides probably GLP1s prior to GLP1. So semaglutide, tirzepatide, ie, ozempic, manjaro, zeppbound. Prior to that, insulin was the most abundant peptide in the world. Your body needs insulin, you know, if you don't have it, you'll die. It's the one. It's the one thing you absolutely need. But that's probably the most common peptide. They're just short chains of amino acids. I really look at em as like these tools, these really amazing tools, especially when you start looking in the, you know, call it the aging or longevity space. That really just polish the body, you know, mind, body. They're, they're amazing, amazing assets.
- [24:14]
B
Should, are there, are there dangers to, to peptides or certain peptides? And what should we be aware of?
- [24:24]
A
Yeah, so I have, I have this thought process that if you're getting it done the right way, if you're getting it under medical supervision, it's coming from a licensed clinician with a valid prescription and it's coming from a licensed pharmacy, whether it's FDA approved or 503A or 503B. And those are basically two different styles of pharmacies that we have in the U.S. i think it's extremely safe. I think that the biggest risk you have when you're doing it in that environment under medical supervision is potentially taking too much or site irritation, meaning it's an injection and maybe your belly or something breaks out. Now you go outside of that pathway, you start buying research peptides or you start getting it from your buddy at the gym who makes it in his garage, and then it becomes a very high risk category. So if it's done in a very regulated environment, and I'm not a proponent of regulation, but this is the one side where I say in order for us to maintain this industry and have a long longevity of this industry, we have to have some regulation. We have to protect the safety of the patients, period. Because at the end of the day, it is a medical, you know, treatment, and it, it can be, you know, it can be serious, especially if you don't do it right. But overall, I think they're extremely safe. I think they're extremely safe.
- [25:39]
B
Yeah. And then you brought your wife in for the joy side of this. So now you, it's, it's essentially hormone therapy for men and women is what joy and blokes does now.
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A
Yeah, my wife, hers was a personal anecdote too. I did not have this vision. I mean, I, I'm telling you, this was all like, hey, I, I, I saw a need and, and I, and I thought we could do better. Yeah, wife went through, we had four miscarriages throughout our marriage. And she had just got done breastfeeding our son and we had kids later. My wife is 47 now and I think she was done breastfeeding my son at 42. So as she was getting done breastfeeding my son, she was facing perimenopause. And she says it best, she's like, I had all this help to get pregnant. I mean, we spent little over $200,000 on I D, F treatments that we didn't end up using. We had our kids naturally. So she gets done with breastfeeding our son, Rowdy, and she's like, holy shit, I'm facing this perimenopause. She was like, truly on the other foot. I lost my sex drive. She got done breastfeeding our son. She lost her sex drive. She gained weight that she didn't want. That, you know, was like the whole, the whole, you know, big disaster of a. Of a bad soup. And so we put her through the blokes program because our clinicians were trained on both men and women. We just were only treating men. And then she got on these treatments, she got on testosterone. That was the first thing that she had ever done. And she's like, oh, my God, I've never had this energy, I've never had this zest, this mental boost, this mood, you know, this clarity, everything that, like, it was just this perfect storm. And as that hit, I was like, babe, we gotta do this. And she's like, okay, I'm in. You know, and, and. And then we realized, I mean, we're fools to not think this way, but 80% of the household spending when it comes to health is controlled by females. And then we realize how many women were actually pushing their men to get better. It's rarely the opposite. Women are always saying, I gotta get my. My, My husband signed up. You know, he needs a better sex drive. He's lost, or he's gained a little bit of weight. It's really the other side. So it's become a great aggregator for. For the men as well. Yeah.
- [27:49]
B
No, I love it, man. You guys are following.
- [27:52]
A
Following the.
- [27:52]
B
The signals the market's giving to you, which a lot of times is, you know, sometimes we over complicate things, sometimes just about following what people are needing, listening to what customers are saying, and solving problems for yourself that are probably scalable to other people. People. So, Josh, I appreciate you coming on. Be willing to share a little bit of your story here. Where can people go to get more from you guys, what you're working on?
- [28:12]
A
Yeah, Simple Man Men is at get blokes on Instagram. That's where a lot of love and community happens. And women is at Joy Women's Wellness. And then come to our website, joy and blokes.com.
- [28:23]
B
joy and and. And is spelled out.
- [28:25]
A
You got it. J O I and Blokes dot com.
- [28:28]
B
Joy and Blokes. Joy with a. With an I. Joy and blokes.com. go check out some of the stuff that Josh and Katie are working on over there. Josh, appreciate appreciate you taking the time. I know you're busy guy. I don' that for granted. Everybody else tuning in. Remember, money only solves your money problems. But it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.