Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money – INTERVIEW | Make Money by Thinking Differently: Inside the Curious Mind of Elon Musk with Charles Steel

Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Charles Steele, author of The Curious Mind of Elon Musk: Nine Ways That He Thinks Differently

Episode Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell welcomes Charles Steele—former investment executive, global advisor, charity chair, and author—to explore how thinking differently can unlock financial and personal success. The focus is on understanding the unique mindset of Elon Musk, drawn from Charles’ new book, and how harnessing curiosity, creativity, and risk can help anyone make more money and a more meaningful life. This is not a Musk biography, but a deep dive into mindset, philosophy, and practical advice for success.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Money-Making Experiences & Formative Lessons

• Charles’ First Excitement Making Money

  • Worked in a restaurant as a teen—found value in camaraderie and teamwork even in chaos.
  • Quote (01:36): "You become quite stoic and you're like, at the end of the day, we will have served everyone, we will have got paid. And I don't know how we're going to get there, but if we stick together, we'll get there." — Charles

• The Importance of Experience

  • Voluntarily worked summers; got exposed to Greek food and different cultures, but also formed a foundation in dealing with pressure and teams.

2. Academic Path and Entry Into Finance

• Educational Journey

  • Middle-class London upbringing; studied history at Cambridge, emphasizing in the UK your studies can be non-vocational but still lead to finance roles.
  • Spent a year as a stockbroker before joining Goldman Sachs, learning more in that year than during his entire university period.

• The Trade-off Between Fun and Focus

  • Charles admits to coasting through college, prioritizing fun and golf over studying, with some later regret for not feeding his curiosity more at that time.
  • Quote (05:23): "I probably would have spent more time going to lectures in different subjects. I was a very curious young person. And looking back, I probably didn't do enough at that stage to feed the curiosity."

3. Work Ethic, Camaraderie, and Learning Excellence

• Work Culture at Goldman Sachs

  • 80-100 hour weeks typical in the late 90s.
  • The biggest lesson was learning the definition of excellence and operating at a high standard.
  • Quote (07:45): “I learned what excellence was at Goldman Sachs. We thought we, even though we were like 21 years old and we were nobodies, we were like, we're working at one of the top firms…”

• Shortcomings of Hard-Driving Culture

  • High standard, but less emphasis on curiosity or problem-solving compared to meeting deadlines and producing work.

4. Influence of Philosophy, Curiosity & Career Explorations

• Philosophical Influences

  • Charles cites Albert Camus as a major influence, appreciating his non-nihilistic, humane worldview.
  • Recommendations: The Stranger, The Plague, The Myth of Sisyphus.
  • Camus’ view: accepting and embracing one’s fate instead of resisting it.
  • Quote (13:02): “Camus says, do not feel sorry for Sisyphus. When he looks up the mountain and he considers his fate, you must think of him as being happy.”

• Pivots to Nonprofits and Global Work

  • Curiosity drove Charles to roles advising Tony Blair in Jerusalem and chairing Save the Children UK, leveraging business experience in new arenas.

5. Inside "The Curious Mind of Elon Musk"

• Book Genesis and Purpose

  • Not a Musk biography; it is an exploration of Musk’s mindset, traced through nine unique thinking principles.
  • Research began pre-Twitter acquisition; noted that writing a book on Musk is always unfinished due to his relentless activity.

• Surprising and Confirming Insights About Musk

  • Unexpected: Musk’s deep existential anxiety, hyperrationality, and ability to channel both into hyper-creativity.

    • Literature Link: Like Dostoevsky’s conflicted characters, but Musk acts instead of dithering. Musk’s mindset is uniquely proactive and ambitious.
    • Musk is driven by a need to “increase consciousness” and face the big questions of the universe.
    • Quote (19:14): “He’s the sort of person who wakes up every day thinking, I've got to increase consciousness so that we get closer to posing the questions to the answer that is the universe.”

  • Confirmed: His prowess in engineering, first-principles thinking, and incredible risk tolerance.

    • Musk embodies the ultimate entrepreneur: takes calculated, outsized bets on himself and his ideas.

6. Systems of Thinking: First Principles and Game Theory

• How Musk Thinks

  • First Principles: breaks problems down to fundamentals, questions assumptions, and innovates from ground-level truths.

  • Game Theory: constantly assesses and manipulates the odds of success, leveraging effort to shift probabilities.

  • Quote (24:33): "When you realize that what you do when you back yourself changes the probabilities of the outcomes, that's when it gets pretty exciting." — Charles

7. Creativity, Mission, and Embracing Pain

• Balancing Engineering and Entrepreneurship

  • Musk manages to merge seemingly opposing mindsets—delusional optimism (entrepreneur) and hyper-rational analysis (engineer).

• Mission-Driven Success

  • Top founders are “missionaries, not mercenaries”—big ambition leads to resilience under tough conditions.

  • Reference to Andrew Huberman: High performers learn to enjoy the pain that signals meaningful work.

  • Mark Manson’s “shit sandwich”: Pursuing anything valuable entails embracing its inherent difficulties.

    • Quote (29:44): "Everything that's worth pursuing is going to suck probably to the same degree that it's going to be awesome. And your ability to make it to the awesome part largely relies on your ability to withstand the sucky part first." — Travis

8. The Power of Curiosity (in All Its Meanings)

• Curiosity Is a Superpower

  • Curiosity = inquisitiveness; but also means peculiarity, and in old usage, intricate craftsmanship.
  • The link between being “curious” and dedicating oneself deeply to hard problems—even at the risk of being seen as strange.
    • Quote (32:09): “…there's the link between being curious and taking the care to do really difficult things. And funnily enough, there's a link with the strange definition of curious because there aren't that many people that do that… Elon Musk would be a point in case, probably the ultimate hyperbolic example of strange.”

• Embrace Your Difference

  • Advice: Don’t worry about being normal. Pursue the topics you are uniquely curious about. This path can lead to success—including financial success—and to a life of meaning and satisfaction.

  • Quote (33:01): “If you are kids, they're a bit strange, don't try and make them conform… Figure out what makes you different. What are you really curious about that other people are not? Follow that.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On formative work:
  “I loved the camaraderie…if we stick together, we’ll get there. And that stayed with me all my life.” — Charles (01:36)

• On academic regret:
  “I probably would have spent more time going to lectures in different subjects. I…didn’t do enough at that stage to feed the curiosity.” — Charles (05:23)

• On learning excellence:
  “I learned what excellence was at Goldman Sachs…We wanted to be the best.” — Charles (07:45)

• On Camus/Sisyphus:
  “Do not feel sorry for Sisyphus. When he looks up the mountain and he considers his fate, you must think of him as being happy.” — Charles (13:02)

• On Musk’s driving force:
  “He wakes up every day thinking, I've got to increase consciousness so that we get closer to posing the questions to the answer that is the universe.”— Charles (19:14)

• On risk and reward:
  “When you realize that what you do when you back yourself changes the probabilities of the outcomes, that's when it gets pretty exciting.” — Charles (24:33)

• On embracing pain for greatness:
  “Everything that's worth pursuing is going to suck probably to the same degree that it's going to be awesome…” — Travis (29:44)

• On curiosity and being different:
  “Don’t worry so much about being normal. Embrace your differentness.… Figure out what makes you different. What are you really curious about that other people are not. Follow that.” — Charles (33:01)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:24 – Charles’ first formative work experiences
• 03:14 – Transition to elite academic and financial institutions
• 07:22 – Insights on Goldman Sachs’ workload and culture
• 11:35 – The role of philosophy and Albert Camus
• 13:02 – The myth of Sisyphus, happiness in labor
• 14:32 – Shifts into global advising and nonprofit work
• 15:58 – Why write a book on Elon Musk’s mindset
• 17:42 – Surprising findings: Musk’s existential anxiety and creativity
• 21:58 – Musk’s reframing: Think in probabilities, not binaries
• 24:54 – How Musk risked everything for his companies
• 27:00 – The missionary vs mercenary mindset in Silicon Valley
• 29:16 – Mark Manson’s “shit sandwich” and the necessity of struggle
• 32:10 – The evolution of “curious,” embracing strangeness
• 33:20 – Final advice: Embrace your curiosity and uniqueness

Conclusion & Resources

Charles encourages listeners to embrace their curiosity, pursue what makes them different, and not fear being peculiar or failing. He affirms that this attitude not only leads to financial opportunity but to a more purpose-driven life.

• Book: The Curious Mind of Elon Musk: Nine Ways He Thinks Differently (Amazon, major booksellers)
• Website: CharlesSteele.com

Host sign-off: Money only solves money problems, but it makes solving the rest a little easier—so let’s solve that first.