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Travis Makes Money
INTERVIEW | Make Money by Thinking Like an Entrepreneur with Sarah Westall
00:22:07
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A
I was recently on whatnot the other day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got to go see if this thing is real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just having fun in the chat. They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like, you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece to too. Where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to see your face as the seller. Not just a logo or a brand, anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers across whatnot. The number of sellers making over $1 million a year has now doubled. The consistency pays off for those sellers. It's not just side hustle, it's a real path to building something that lasts. Because whatnot buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, they're not just browsing around, they're engaged, they're buying, they're coming back. You go live, show off your products in real time and turn what you love into real income. So search whatnot wh o t whatnot in the App Store, download it today and get started selling right away.
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B
You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast.
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A
What's going on, everybody?
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B
Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. On this episode of the show, I have a new friend, Sarah Westall. She's a dynamic entrepreneur, business strategist and media host with a proven track record of building high performing teams, driving innovation and accelerating business growth in competitive industries. As the host of the business game Changers, she is exploring disruptive ideas, emerging technologies, influential voices that shape business, economics and government. She's got a top rated show over in the business news category, breaking down topics that are difficult for people like me to break down. So I'm glad somebody is filling those shoes and making this accessible to everybody. Sarah, what's up? Welcome to the show.
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C
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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B
So let's go back in time first of all and talk about how you got Started with all this. So tell me, tell me the first time, Sarah, you ever made a dollar that was shocking or surprising or exciting to you? The first time somebody paid you for something and you're like, I can't believe somebody paid me money to do this.
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C
I don't know if I ever had the thought, I can't believe somebody paid me money. I. When I was in high school, I was dumb enough to go and we found the distributor of the candy because we sold candy to, to make do, go to Germany or go to Europe. And so we decided we could sell this just to make money. So then we figured out how to buy from the distributor and then sell to all of our, all the, you know, our classmates. And so I'd have like this pack of people buying candy from me pretty soon. Next thing I know of the dean of the school mad at me because I was disrupting classes. But I don't know, it's just something that I always did.
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B
Were your parents entrepreneurial or where did that come from, you think?
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C
Me? I don't know. It's. It's. I think that entrepreneurship. My kids are more into it because I'm into it, which is great. I think it's something that a lot of times is learned, but sometimes it's just creative people become entrepreneurs. I think it's a more. I think it's a creative thing. Even though it seems like it would be more of a hardcore business thing. I think it's more creative.
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B
What did you think that you were going to do at that time with
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C
your career at that time? Nothing. I mean, I don't know. I was right. I was more. I ended up going and becoming. I have a degree in computer science and that was back in the, in the early 90s is when I graduated and I ended up going into telecom and we built the Internet infrastructure. I was. We had upwards of 90% of the early Internet infrastructure. And I worked at Enterprise and I eventually kept getting promoted and I was the head of systems design and development for that organization. I learned a lot. I learned how to. I did. That was also responsible for their data modeling of that organization, which is pretty much pre AI. A lot of people call that stuff AI now. It's, it's. It's the basis of what they're doing with AI. But it gave me a really deep understanding of how the world works and what's. What we're capable of. And then I got out of there and I was just always itching to be more of an entrepreneur. And so that's what I did from consulting to building a distribute, you know, a distribution company to doing my own podcast.
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B
Yeah. So when you, when you were, how long were you in the corporate world then?
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C
I was in the corporate world for maybe eight years, not much longer than that.
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B
How did you find your time doing that?
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C
I don't, you know, I, I think the corporate world, as I tell my kids, the corporate world is a great opportunity to learn big picture because it's very difficult to learn big picture from running a small business. And you want to, you get that opportunity because you have so many more resources you can span across massive, you know, a world thing. Depending on how big your business is and how rigid it is. If you're get lucky and you're in an organization like I was, that allowed you the leeway to be able to manage and do a ton of things. That's a valuable opportunity now. I think a lot of entrepreneurs have a hard time sticking around in a corporate structure because it tends to shut down that creativity. And for people like that, I always say, you know, navigate where you can learn what you can and leverage those opportunities to then build what you want to build later.
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B
There's a lot of people who have a job. Maybe they're in a corporate structure, maybe they work for a small business, whatever, they have a job, a quote unquote career. But maybe they find this inner calling or this itch to go explore something entrepreneurial. But it sounds kind of scary when you are used to having a paycheck come in all the time. You don't have expenses or employees. You don't have the, the wild roller coaster ups and downs of entrepreneurship. How did you make that transition? Was there practically here, Was there like a certain dollar amount in your head that you needed to put away? Was it building the business on the side while you were working at the corporate world? Was it just kind of like, I'm done. You broke it off right then and there. Tell me about that transition period.
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C
I broke it off right then and there and just went, I, I'm kind of a little different because I just is kind of. I'm a. Just a renegade and I'm just going to do it. Not everybody has that option. And what I would recommend is it's hard. Entrepreneurship is a lot of work. You people who say it's not are, are, have never done it. It is, it is an obsession and it's. You have to do it because you love it, because you're going to run into so many obstacles that you're going to have. That's why I say it's a creative endeavor, because you're going to have to get creative and figure it out. Right? I taught entrepreneurship at the Carlson School. It's one of the top rated schools in the country in business. And and I always told them the the students, the entrepreneurship people out of art school tend to be more successful than people at a business school and entrepreneurship. The reason is because they're not rigid in their thinking of how things have to be done. They're more like, how do I get it done? It's a different perspective and it's really important. How do I get it done?
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This episode of the show is brought
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disclosures this episode of the show is brought to you by AG1. I don't know about you But I feel like I've been traveling quite a bit this summer and I'm leaving again next week. But you know, one thing that has made it into my bag every single time is a little bit of ag1. Summer vacation means a different bed, different schedule, healthy habits put on pause waiting for the fall. Except for the 30 seconds that it takes to mix. Ag1 One scoop plus 8 ounces of water every morning. Ag1 helps maintain energy, support gut health and support immune health. And it's clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. It's a daily health drink with multivitamin pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants. So one scoop 8 ounces of water. That's all you need. Even though summer is your license to chill with all the late nights, long weekends, spontaneous plans, AG1 helps you keep at least one thing consistent. High quality nutritional support every single day, no matter where you start your morning. I use this and you should too. Visit drink ag1.comTMM to get a free AG1 travel case with seven free AG1 travel packs in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order while supplies last. That's drinkag1.comTMM
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C
now you asked me the question on what happens if you're a working adult? What happens if you have a family, people that you need to support and you want to do this entrepreneurial activity? I would say a few things. Obviously I'm older and a little less of a renegade now, so I would make sure there's things in place to make sure that you can keep going. That doesn't mean you're not going to work really hard and you need to be prepared for that. I would make sure that you had maybe six months of cash flow in the bank account or at least living the ability to make it by for about six months. I also would try to start the business on the side and have a couple clients starting to flow in, get some cash flow going that you can base it on and then go from there. If, if at all possible you can get this, the seed of it, the kernel of it going while you still have a job that's bringing in a paycheck that's, that's really helpful. Yeah.
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B
And then move the hours into the new venture. You know, I, I think some people like, they quit the job like they've been so used to for the last year and a half working their full time job and then they're working their side hustle in the evenings and they're Putting in, you know, 12 hour work days, 14 hour work days sometimes and they're just exhau. And then it's like I quit my job. Finally I have all this free time and then they don't fill the free time with the entrepreneurial venture. And then a year later they're right back into going into their job because they weren't able to make it work. So it's also like, yeah, you guys just got to get used to that workload. And then as soon as you quit the job, all of your hours that were going into the job need to go now into.
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C
They have to venture. Yeah, well, because you, unless you're cash flowing right now, take that extra hours, you still should probably be working. An entrepreneur works around the clock. At first it really is hard. Now you can get lucky and you can set up and establish yourself with clients and maybe you have that cash flow and you don't have to work around the clock. But usually at first it tends to be a really, really demanding situation. And then, you know, I've built companies where I eventually hire people and I take a lot off my plate and then I'm free. I still work really hard, but I'm free. And I can manage my own schedule because I have other people managing the day to day activities. But that takes a while to build to that point. But the reality is that it is a, it's a. That's why I always tell people go into something that you really love to do because you're not going to love it when there's problems. And if you don't love it, you're not going to stick with it because that those problems really are going to suck. I mean it.
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B
Bottom line, how, how did you get your first couple of clients? You immediately went into consulting from corporate?
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C
Yeah, I mean, you know, understanding sales and marketing is good. Not, not being afraid to go up to people. I. The best thing is to leverage your, your corporate in your current job. I mean if there's contacts, hopefully your current job is in the field that you want to go to or at least tangent to the field you want to go to. If it's completely different, that's harder. But maybe the completely, maybe your hobbies that are tangent to it. Right. You want to be able to create those business relationships based on the activities that you're naturally doing. So if it's your corporate job, then you create those opportunities through the contacts that you have through conferences, through whatever that you can leverage. That's why I say leverage the current job. You can, if it's not related to your business at all, leverage your hobbies. I mean, you have to. You're not going to just be going cold into an area. I mean, maybe you are, but that's really a hard road. You really don't want to go cold into an area unless, I mean, I don't know, they really. You shouldn't. You should at least go to conferences and make. Get some acquaintances and network.
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B
Yeah. How important have relationships been for you and your career?
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C
Well, it's. It's everything. Right? I mean, everything you do is creating relationships. It's more important than anything else is, is establishing those real everything. You know, a podcast is really a business. I don't look at it as. I just make money from the platforms paying me. I know that they aren't going to pay me what I need to survive. So everything I do is, I'm, I look at it as an entrepreneurial activity and I establish business relationships with businesses. I talk directly with owners and I establish relationships with them. And that's. I, I'd rather. I just had somebody yesterday tell me you're the first person I've run into that would rather have affiliates and set up, structure business deals than to just get paid for an ad read. Because I know, I'd rather. It's just. That's way better. I still do ad reads because it fills things in and whatever, but I. That way I can sell what I really believe in and I'm bringing my listeners stuff that they hopefully if they. It's a win win for all directions. The business wins, I win, the listeners who like it win. I'm not just asking for donations. It's. I see it as a business, I say as a business and helping to grow. And it's an. I taught when I was at the Carlson School, I taught a, a section on podcasting. This was back in 2015 before it really got big. And it was a way to build your business using podcast and how to use it as a marketing tool.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. So you've been doing this for quite some time then. What, what got you into podcasting? What, what pinged it on the radar?
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C
I was approached back in 2012 maybe to do a business show and by Brad Saul was his name. He's no longer with us, but he was a great guy and he had independent media company and he knew podcasting was going to be the next thing and he just said you got to do a business podcast. And so I did. I started there and I, He. I actually taught the section the school with him. We did that together. And yeah, my podcast aired either an hour before or an hour after Newt Gingrich's podcast.
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B
We're on the same Scaling a business
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A
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this thing and, and I, I aired on the radio in New York and then also in and then we transitioned and had this podcast and then I grew it and so I was audio before I was video. And then I decided I needed to expand into video and I do more video. I mean video does better for me than audio now. But you know, people tend to like video more and so that's why I'm into it. But audio is still big.
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B
Yeah. When did you start doing more video? And you said video is doing better than audio. Is that on a particular platform? Like you're talking about YouTube specifically, you're talking about Spotify video.
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Well, I'm really big on Rumble is probably where I'm the biggest because I, I, I decided I made the mistake of telling giving people information and the truth during COVID So I had PhDs and MDs who are all sort of board certified and then PhDs aren't board certified, but MDs are who didn't agree with the COVID policies and if you dared to go against government and what at that time, you know, which should have been a First amendment right, especially for people who are professionals who just disagree. They all ended up proved out to be right, which is really sad. And so my platform got cut off, but I had like 130,000 followers. I was, and I was censored for a good year before they cut me off. I probably because that was the biggest growth period we've had in podcasting is after I got kicked off. I probably would have if I stayed at that same direction trajectory, I probably could have over a million subscribers now. Now I'm still at 121 thousand. But I'm still, I'm still. They all those filters that were originally put in place, they haven't lifted them off people like us. They've kept them in place. So I, that's what I did. So. But I'm bigger on Rumble because of it. I'm bigger on the free speech platforms because I'm not afraid to ask the questions. I've decided that that's more important to me. You have to make a decision what's important to you. I've decided it's more important to me to question and look at what's authentic and ask the questions. And I believe that's what our country is based on. And so I've just said I'm going to be this even if it harms me. It's not this necessarily the smartest business decision, but I think it's a where I'm at in my life, it's how I want to run my life now is I'm going to question these things and I'm going to bring it to people because I think it's the right thing to do. So there's a point where money isn't always the most important thing to people at a certain point in your life.
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B
You've been podcasting now for a very long time. What are some of the most people think about getting into a podcast? Because you're building an audience and you're going to get sponsors and that's really the only way to think about it. What are some of the ancillary benefits that you've received from having a podcast that has nothing to do with download numbers or views?
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C
Well, see, I don't think that's why I taught that class. I'm like, I don't see podcasting as just this media opportunity which, you know, I'm doing that. That's the business. And I'm listed with crossover media, which is a, a wonderful independent media. It's crossover media. They have big names on there and I'm on there. I'm one of their main podcasts. So I am really focused on media and downloads and subscribers and all that crap ranking. You know, I rank on Apple News, but I, I don't see it as that being the most important. I see it as a means to building up your audience and building up your market and your, your company. And if you are really serious about building products, this is a wonderful way to get in, to get your product out to the world by doing podcasting. It's, you know, back in, when radio was created, that's Sears Roebuck was, was one of the biggest radio people at the time and that's what they did. They used it to build their company and it's kind of that same thing. You really gotta look at it from a different perspective.
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B
Yeah. With the podcast specifically, what are, what are some of the, what are some of the paths to monetization that you've discovered? What, what are the best ways to monetize the audience?
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C
Well, you do everything you possibly can, otherwise you don't stay in business. Right. But obviously you, you have the platforms. But I would never rely on the platforms. They don't pay you enough. Especially, you know, as you're small, you can get sponsorships and do ad reads, which I do. But my, like I said earlier, my biggest, my biggest avenue is, is looking at it as a business. And I do relationships with businesses. I find, I look for products, I look for companies that I want to promote. I partner with the CEO and the, the leaders in their company and I, that's who I, the products I sell because I think the market is right, right for it. I do cycle between products when I believe that the market is shifting. Right. I always look for the products that, and I'm very loyal to the people that I work with because I vet them very carefully. To me, I'm a marketing arm for them and, and we, I just, I package it and I, you know, and I think I see it as a win, win, win for everyone all around because they're products that I think are people really want.
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B
What are you really excited about these days in the media podcasting landscape?
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C
I don't know what am I excited about? I think that there's the excitement is, is that we can do a lot with this, but only if we can, we can get rid of the censorship because everything's automated. People don't see that. And I think there's a, you know, I've come out of tech. I understand. I came out of Internet and modeling all this stuff. I understand at a fundamental level how this works. And we can't allow them to control what people see. And that is the most important thing if we want to maintain freedom. We don't want a handful of people to be able to decide what they show you because what you see affects your mind and what you believe is true. And you don't. You no longer have free will, even if you think you do. And that, to me, is the number one thing that we need to be looking at. It's very, very important if we want to maintain freedom. And I think that's, that's our challenge.
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B
Sarah, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. The name of the name of your show, Business Game Changers. People can go find that on Apple podcasts wherever you listen to podcasts as well as Rumble. Sarah, where else can people go to get more from Sarah westall.com sarawestall.com that's Westall. W E S T A L L sarahwestall.com Go check out some of the stuff that Sarah's been putting out. Like I said, she tackles more complex economic problems than we do here on our show. So if you want a little bit more behind the scenes, go check out Business Game Changers with Sarah Westall. Sarah, I appreciate you taking the time. I know you're very busy. I don't take that for granted at all. Everybody else tuning in, remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.