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Travis Makes Money
INTERVIEW | Make Money by Turning Grief Into Global Impact with Olivia Zhang
00:25:55
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- [00:00]
A
From Geico Subconscious News, I'm Tammy. Racing thoughts tonight. You just left for work and had a non specific feeling that something was happening to your place and it wasn't good. Dan. Exactly, Tammy. It could be smoke damage, theft or just too much caffeine, but you can't stop thinking about it. But with renters insurance through geico, your stuff is covered so you don't have to worry. And that's great. Cause the weekend is coming up and it's chock full of social obligations that are ready to fill that void. Oh boy, will they, dad. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico. You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's a mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, I am talking to a new friend of mine, Olivia Zhang. She is a Harvard University student and the founder and CEO of Cancer Kids first, the world's first largest youth led cancer nonprofit. She launched the organization at 14 and has since generated $650,000 plus in funding, mobilized 43,000 volunteers across 80 countries, and supported over 15,000 pediatric cancer patients globally. Liv is also a social media creator with over 200,000 followers, TEDx speaker, and a frequent speaker at international health conferences and schools nationwide. She was named the youngest 2026 Forbes 30 under 30 social impact honoree, a 2025 L' Oreal par of Worth and Diana Legacy award recipient. Man, this is, this is one of those, one of those episodes that means a lot to me and I appreciate you, Olivia, for taking the time. So welcome to the show.
- [01:40]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [01:42]
A
So this is like, this is like the first venture you ever tried. I mean, 14 is crazy. What was the goal? Why? Like what, what, what, what was the origin story behind why this was such a meaningful mission for you?
- [01:55]
B
Yeah, so I think that this is a very similar story to a lot of immigrant kids. But my parents, they came from China to the United States at the age of 30, which was, you know, really late. And obviously they had to give up a lot of different things to ensure that my sister and I had like essentially a better life here in America. And my grandfather and elementary school teacher essentially raised me growing up because my parents were working really long hours at their jobs. So when I lost My grandfather and teacher to cancer. They passed away within two months of each other. It was just, I think, a lot to experience at once, and it was the first time I had also experienced grief, and I really didn't know how to navigate that. So during my grandfather's cancer diagnosis, seeing him go through chemo was really difficult. And I tried to just sell artwork. That was kind of, I guess, like, my first step into fundraising, too. I would sell artwork and jewelry and things like that to raise money for his treatment. And naturally, being in, like, sixth grade, I only made a few hundred dollars, but that was kind of my childlike, like, contributions. And when they both passed away, I kind of wanted to do something that was a lot larger than myself and in a way where I could actually see the tangible impact that I was making rather than donating to, like, research hospitals, like St. Jude's so that's kind of why I got the idea to actually launch a venture and utilize, like, my skill sets to hopefully address the gaps that I saw in cancer care.
- [03:19]
A
What did you do differently from some of those other organizations that you mentioned?
- [03:23]
B
I think the biggest thing that I realized was the power of young people, and we were able to really leverage that during the pandemic when TikTok was this new giant thing. So we provide these kids with cancer with friends and people their age who they can talk to, which is something that adult organizations can't necessarily do. And also, our model is so sustainable because many of our service programs can be run just with no funding, wholly on, like, volunteer efforts. So being able to, like, leverage young people's, like, talents, whether that's like, card making or singing or things like that, in, like, virtual events and virtual games and to provide services for patients. That's kind of how we've been able to operate for so long, I think, without having to need, like, so much funding.
- [04:11]
A
So it's more of a. It's. It's from the. It's from the perspective of being supportive of whoever is going through these. This episode of the show is brought to you by Factor. Got big goals but no time to cook. Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs. So eat well without the planning or the cooking. Inside, you will get quality, functional ingredients, including lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole food ingredients, and healthy fats. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils. Get that stuff out of here. Meals that actually fit your goals and your schedule. Healthier eating, calorie management, more protein skills. Etc. Etc. With over 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh and delicious through the winter. Your options include high protein calorie smart Mediterranean diet, GOP1 support and ready to eat salads plus the new Muscle Pro collection support, strength and recovery. And it's always fresh, it's never frozen and it's ready in about two minutes. No prep, no stress, just delicious nutritious food. So head over to Factor Meals.com TMM50OFF and use code TMM5050OFF to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor New subscribers only. Varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. Types of treatments, not necessarily on like cancer research. How do we solve this problem type of a thing.
- [05:35]
B
Yeah, exactly. So providing that our mission statement is to normalize the environment and provide the community for patients going through treatment. However, I will say I think in recent years we've pivoted a little bit to also support with that actual treatment side for patients in low and middle income countries because of the disparities that we've seen there. So for those hospitals, we tend to like pair US Oncologists with their oncologists to help with access to treatment and knowledge information as well as delivering medical equipment and like surgical equipment. But definitely in the US it's very holistic in terms of like that psychosocial kind of support.
- [06:09]
A
When you first got started with this, did you have the goal of turning it into what it is today or was that sort of a byproduct of just caring about the cause?
- [06:18]
B
Definitely not. I think, I think that starting out, I, you know, struggled a lot with grief and depression during my middle school and early high school years. And for me, I think I realized that a lot of my purpose comes from work. And so it was more so about getting myself out of bed every day and finding something that I could pour my time and energy into and feel like I had like a purpose and so, and also I obviously wanted to honor their legacies. So I think it very much started out like I just need something to keep my mind and hands occupied, you know, and then we didn't really see it becoming more than just a typical, I guess, high school community project until like 2022 during the pandemic when we like blew up on social media. And I was like, that was like a pivotal moment where I was like, wow, this could actually be something more than just myself and our community.
- [07:06]
A
How old were you at that time?
- [07:08]
B
I was around 16.
- [07:09]
A
Wow. Okay. So first of all, plenty of lessons to take away from this. This is one that we just beat over the head all the time on the show. But it's also another great example of why you should be doing this. Just create some damn content. People like that I don't understand. Like, every post is a lottery ticket. Every post you make could be a post that could quite literally change the course of your life, the course of your career, or the course of the lives of the people that you're helping in this, you know, nonprofit capacity. Just that one decision to be like, all right, maybe it's worth spending some time on social and posting some stuff on TikTok talk. Don't know what we're. Exactly what we're going to do with it. Don't know where it's going to go, but it ends up being massively impactful and then allows you to step into this type of a. Type of a role later on. And then the. The second thing is more on the lie that people tell themselves about qualifications or age or, I don't have a degree in this thing. And there's. There's so many. And I think you're. I think you get more. More into the dangerous territory of this, like, the older that you get because you've lived more life and you more cynical and more skeptical and things like that. But that's why I love stories like yours where it's like, it's just a person who experienced something bad, had an idea to solve it or change it, and then made something happen and then to do it at such a young age. Did you ever feel sort of like the sense of imposter syndrome that, like, who am I to be doing this? Or how do I. And if so, how did you sort of tackle that?
- [08:43]
B
Yeah, no, for sure. I think that's a very common thing young people especially face. I think given this current, like, political, economic state of the world. There's so many different things going on. And I think a lot of my generation, generation is younger. They want to take action, like, do something to help, but they don't have the resources or are afraid. And I remember, like, a lot of people don't actually know this, but 2019, we were founded. That was when I was 14. And then we relentlessly, like, emailed every single pediatric cancer hospital across the country separated by state. We reached out to all our local businesses in our area, and we got over like 70 plus rejections. So that's not even counting, like, how many people we emailed and called it was 70 plus rejections. And we took a break, like our founding team took a break for around like three to four months because I was so discouraged. Our team as a whole was so discouraged. And we didn't really see a path forward because without constituents to help, without like the funding to help, like, we couldn't kick anything off the ground. And so those beginning, I guess, couple of years, I would say were pretty challenging and actually getting adults to believe in us and trust us. And it was essentially more so about learning, I think, how to correctly pitch ourselves to people. So our founding team, we had to rally each other if we were selling cupcakes. We had to convince one another and cheer on one another to talk to a stranger and explain our organization to them. I learned from a lot of my mentors how to create the best pitch deck and obviously elevator pitch. And when you're talking to adults, how can you focus on the things that they're interested in and use that as a way to segue into your project and how they can maybe support your project? So I think learning all of that and literally just practicing in front of mirror, practicing with strangers that I didn't really care about or wouldn't ever see again, that really helped me develop a sense of confidence. And then we were able to kind of get the wheels turning again and start moving forward. But I think that again comes from so much time and a lot of trial and error moving forward. And so I wish I had, like, some sort of resource, I guess, in terms of all these, like, tips and tricks that it just took me a couple years to learn and master. And that's kind of why I wrote my book Youth, that officially launched yesterday, which I was really excited about.
- [10:59]
A
Congrats.
- [11:01]
B
Thank you. I think that I really care about, like, elevating young people, you know, and making sure that they're empowered to, I guess, change the world. Because I know firsthand, like, what that kind of feels like. And I just, I also remember being like a young, like 15 year old and I would hop on calls with men who were, who had like, children who were older than me. And I was just so intimidated. Like, it was the scariest thing I could ever do. But I do really believe in, like, exposure therapy. And so I think that, like, training yourself through that was really helpful.
- [11:32]
A
Yeah, well, don't discount that. Tips, tools, whatever that you, that you just said at the end of that explanation, because that is the key to overcoming imposter syndrome. It's to build up a bank of evidence to Say that you have now, you can now look at as proof that, that you can take into your confidence that allows you to go tackle the problem. Even if that imposter syndrome voice is still whispering in your ear. The only real way to quiet it is through evidence that you know what you're doing. And at first you don't have any evidence that you know what you're doing. You just have this sort of delusional sense of self optimism that things are going to work out okay. And then you tried, like you said, you tried to put this into plan and you did a bunch of work and you just got rejection after rejection after rejection. At that point is, that's the point where most people buy into the lie that the imposter syndrome voice is telling them, which is that you're not good enough, you're too young, you're. You don't have a degree. Who are you to say these, say this thing, or who are you to solve this problem? And instead of listening to that voice, you went and built another batch of evidence that basically says, no, I can figure this out. You know, and the beautiful thing about it, though, that I think is that I think is probably the best. The best part of it is that you only really have to do that once to convince yourself that you can do it again. You know what I'm saying? As soon as you run up against an obstacle, you didn't think you could figure it out, but then you force yourself to figure it out, then it's like, okay, well, I now know that I'm the type of person that when put into a situation like this and run into this type of an obstacle, I am now the type of person that can figure it out. And then it's sort of like, I wonder what else I've been telling myself that I'm not capable of doing. And maybe, maybe if I do the same thing that I did over here, I could apply that over in this scenario too, you know, so don't, don't discount that advice because that is actually stellar advice for people to overcome imposter syndrome.
- [13:30]
B
Yeah, no, I actually, I even. I created something called the Worth folder in my camera roll. And I just put screenshots of emails from our initial hospital directors who said, yes, patients, families, and even other young girls who DM'd me or texted me or emailed me saying that the work that I was doing inspires them. And anytime I feel, I guess, like imposter syndrome or even unmotivated in general to work on something, I always go back to, like, that camera roll and look through the screenshots of those images. And that always gives me, I feel like, the needed, like, kick to get started or remind myself that I have inspired others and helped others, and I can continue doing that moving forward.
- [14:07]
A
And you've done a tremendous job to build this type of organization. If I'm. If my math is correct, you're 21.
- [14:14]
B
I'm 20 now.
- [14:15]
A
20. Okay, so 20 years old. To be able to have as much impact as you've already had on. On so many people is. Is astounding and should be something that's applauded. Tell me, tell me more about the book. Why'd you write the book? What's it for? What's. What do you hope is, like, the main takeaway?
- [14:30]
B
Yeah, so I've always grown up writing, and I was always the nerd that spent every Sunday in the library. So writing a book has always been my dream, but I didn't, I guess, stumble upon it on purpose. I think it also, again, goes back to the whole thing that you're talking about with posting. Obviously, I was very invested in like, social media marketing because of my art skills that translated to like, designing canva graphics for different Instagram accounts. And then I got like, looped into the whole algorithm of social media. And that's kind of why I was encouraged to build like a TikTok team for our nonprofit and how we exploded. And then I started my own page in my freshman year of college, so it's been a couple years now, and I just started posting about essentially how young people can do it all, they can balance school, so I can balance Harvard plus also running an organization. And I would post a bunch of tip videos on how you can start a nonprofit, how you can get involved in social impact. And those blew up. And I just got a bunch of emails of people asking for me to help them with their organizations. And I started doing mentorship calls. And then naturally I didn't have the time bandwidth to help everybody. And so I thought that it would be great to address this gap that I saw, which I also faced when I was trying to build a nonprofit. ChatGPT wasn't a thing back when I was trying to build the organization. So I would read countless articles. I used wikiHow a lot, but there was no resource out there that thought about how do you mass mobilize from your high school cafeteria if you are a young person, Naturally applying to grants is so much harder. So how are you going to get that funding? Like, how do you essentially rally your generation around your cause or deal with AP classes and SAT exams and then also trying to balance your organization. So I pitched this book idea to. It was kind of the same process as when I was running my organization. I cold emailed 170 literary agents before one finally said yes. But I just pitched this idea of this guidebook with the toolkits and resources and tangible stories from other young leaders and also my own story on how another young person can start their own social impact project. So that's kind of what youth is all about. And I really hope that it starts a movement in this world and inspires young people to actually do something rather than, I guess, dreaming of an idea but being too afraid to start.
- [16:48]
A
How did you find the book writing process?
- [16:51]
B
It was actually really fun. I did it my freshman year of college somewhere.
- [16:55]
A
That's how you know you should be an author. Olivia is if you call the book writing process fun. Yeah.
- [17:00]
B
Did you, did you, do you not enjoy like, writing?
- [17:03]
A
You know, I have not written a book yet because I have this like obstacle in my mind about how much work it's going to be to put this thing into writing. So that's, that's my own thing though. And to be fair, I have the last like month or two I've been trying to talk to a couple literary agents to finally get it out. But yeah, it's, it's, it's not, it's less. I enjoy the final product when I, when I have it all like put together, but the process of writing I don't thoroughly enjoy.
- [17:29]
B
That's okay, that's very fair.
- [17:31]
A
I also, I'm a podcaster, not a blogger. You know what I mean?
- [17:33]
B
Right. I was gonna ask, were you more of a STEM or humanities student growing up?
- [17:38]
A
Well, I grew up in this like fundamentalist, religious, cult type thing, so I was a ministry student is what I was. So yeah, like, there wasn't really much of a focus on anything other than, than ministry. So it was a unique background. My, my college degree is. I have a double major in Bible and church ministries and it's unaccredited. So, yeah, non trad way of growing up. So I would not even be able to answer that question because we didn't really have those options in school.
- [18:05]
B
Okay, very interesting. But also, yeah, very, very. So I was just gonna say I feel because I was more of a humanity student, I just loved to write. So I would write almost as if it was like, I guess journal almost about like my personal experiences with the nonprofit and how I felt about everything. And then I was like interviewing other young leaders for their stories. And so it felt more like, I guess, like journalistic kind of assignment almost. And it was like fun to learn from their stories. And then I think like putting it all together, I was wr. It was the summertime I was by the beach. I was just trying to hammer it out in a month. And the finished product I thought was great. I was like, wow, I'm so proud of this. And then my publishing team and my editor looked at it and made me completely rework the manuscript. And I will say that part I think was a headache because I thought I created this beautiful, polished piece and then it was completely reworked and edited so many times. But now I'm really proud of the final product. So I think that initial drafting process, when I viewed it more as like a fun, I guess, thing for me, daunting and tedious.
- [19:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, but that's the, that's the nice thing about working with a publisher, especially for like a first project like that is like they know what you don't know. You know what I'm saying? So it's like you might have been totally cool with the first version and you could have self published it and launched it on Amazon, but, you know, having multiple eyes on it and people who've been there, done that and can walk you through. Exactly. Well, let's. Why don't we switch this up or this story doesn't belong here or let's get rid of that. Let's add this in here. You know, that can absolutely impact the total volume of books sold as well as the total impact that your book can make. So congrats to you on getting that. It's publishing deals are harder to land, I think, than people realize. So congrats on that. But then again, 170 people that you emailed. This is what I love about your story in particular, Olivia, is that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's your 10th book or your first book. It doesn't matter if you have the degree or you're still in school. It doesn't matter if you're 50 years old or 18 years old. The people who tend to get the results that they want are the people who persist until they get the result that they want. And you know, most people would have sent three emails to literary agents and then when they didn't hear back, they go, ah, well, guess it's not in the cards to write a book. You emailed 170 and finally got one to say yes.
- [20:21]
B
You know, so I always, like, frame it as. I mean, I want to let me know if you have a better phrase or I guess, like, wording for this. But I always say you have to be, like, crazy enough to believe that you can do it and crazy enough to literally do everything in your power to achieve, like, what you set out to. And I think, like you mentioned that is, I guess, the difference between somebody who maybe, like, sets a goal and doesn't achieve it versus somebody who actually is able to.
- [20:45]
A
Yeah, well, you have to have. Everything starts with the belief. Right? Because the action is limited by your belief in the action. So if you don't believe that the result is possible, then you probably aren't going to take the first step to email the first publisher, let alone the 170th publisher. But it's the person who has this delusional sense of self. Opt. Delusional sense of optimism is typically the person who figures out a way to make it happen. Because it's sort of like you almost take it like. Like a guaranteed thing. It's like it's inevitable, like, it's going to happen. I just. I don't know exactly when. I don't know exactly how. I don't know what the book deal is going to look like or which publisher is going to pick it up or what's going to happen after it launches. All I know is that I'm definitely going to write a book and it won't be published. And, you know, sooner or later, that's going to happen. So I. I heard Adam Sandler talk about this. I think it was on Rogan's podcast, but he was talking about how he just. He. He was like, I don't even know if I would recommend that people do this because I have no idea where it came from. I just had this. This belief that it was going to work out from that I was going to get on snl, that I was gonna, like, make this successful and be the next, you know, version of. Of comedy that existed in the world. And obviously he nailed it, you know, so, yeah, I think that, that, that. That delusional optimism is. Is a really important factor that it can't really be measured, it can't really be studied. And it tends to go against most especially. Especially really smart people, really analytical people. They tend to push back against that because they want to. They want to be the realest. They don't. They want to be this, like, optimist that just believes in stuff without any data to Back it up. But then you combine those two things together, and I think that becomes a superpower, is when you have this, like, analytical mind and you. And you and you can think through problems and you have great critical thinking abilities, yet you also have this almost diametrically opposed view of this just completely unfounded, unearned belief that you're going to figure it out. You know, I have combined those, and you get a great result.
- [22:41]
B
Yeah, no, I love the way you phrase that. I feel like I always have trouble when people ask me, like, how to combine exactly what you said into words, but that was beautiful. And I have a words list, so I'm actually adding that to my words. Listen.
- [22:54]
A
Great. I love it. Olivia, thank you so much for taking the time. This has been awesome. I had a cancer diagnosis myself a couple years ago, and it kind of sucked me into the world of all the different people who are sort of in that space. And I, too, was a little bit disillusioned by. I felt like sort of some of the waste that happens in that world. It's easy to tug on people's heartstrings when you're talking about cancer and then get money raised for it. And then I just saw that people weren't using the money for what they said they were going to use the money for. There just wasn't a lot of helpful stuff out there. So I genuinely appreciate you stepping into this type of a field and providing a really great solution for, you know, a percentage of the population that are truly, in the most fundamental sense of the word, victims of their circumstances where they did not do anything to deserve anything that they, you know, have to go through. And to be able to have the support system that they have because you saw a problem and stepped in and created that solution is really, really cool and very, very much respect. Respect you for that. Congrats on the book. If you're listening right now, go pick up a copy of Youth. Even if you're not a youth, pick it up anyway because it'll probably be really inspirational for you. And, you know, gift it. Buy a dozen copies, gift it to some of the young people in your life. I'm sure that they will gain a lot from reading through that book. Olivia, where can people go to get. Get more from you and see more about what you're working on? Maybe contribute to the foundation, things like that?
- [24:10]
B
Yeah. So my foundation's called Cancer Kids first, and our website is Cancer Kids first dot org. And then to follow along my journey, my Instagram is Olivia Zhang, official at
- [24:19]
A
Olivia Zhang Official that's Z H a n G Z H a n G Olivia Zhang Official over on Instagram. Go check out some of the stuff that putting out. Pick up a copy of her book. Do it now so you don't forget and then gift it to some other people in your life. And Olivia, thank you so much for taking the time. I know your time's very valuable. You got a lot of demands on your plate being in school and running an organization. Don't know how you do it, but congrats to you and all the success and I wish you nothing but the best. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's a little bit easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.