INTERVIEW | Make Money Through Meaningful Networking, feat. Ivan Misner

Summary

Episode Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: "INTERVIEW | Make Money Through Meaningful Networking" feat. Dr. Ivan Misner

Date: March 9, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Dr. Ivan Misner (Founder & Chief Visionary Officer, BNI)

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Overview

In this episode, Travis Chappell sits down with Dr. Ivan Misner, dubbed the “father of modern networking,” to explore how intentional, relational networking drives business and personal success. The episode delves into how networking has evolved since the 1980s, the impact of technology, common misconceptions, and actionable strategies for building meaningful, profitable relationships.

Dr. Misner draws on decades of experience founding and growing BNI (Business Network International), now the world’s largest business networking organization. He shares stories, surprising data, and concrete advice for listeners looking to deepen their relationships and leverage their networks for genuine opportunity and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The History and Evolution of Networking (04:19–07:37)

• Technology’s Role: While modes of communication have transformed, the fundamentals of human connection remain vital.
  • “The more technologically advanced we become, the more important it is to have that connection with people.” (Dr. Misner, 04:34)
• In the 1980s, networking skills weren't taught—something that remains largely unchanged, though public resources (books, podcasts) are more abundant now.
• Advantage for Younger Generations: Despite criticism, today’s youth have new tools—especially social media—to maintain connections previously impossible.
• Memorable Story: Dr. Misner recalls missing out on lifelong connections simply because there were no digital tools to keep in touch back then.

2. The Generational Perspective on Relationship-Building (09:40–11:20)

• Older generations often criticize younger people’s social skills, but Dr. Misner counters that every generation faces this critique.
  • Quote: “The children today love comfort. They don't have social skills... They show disrespect for elders...” – Socrates (09:56)
• This skepticism has persisted for millennia and each generation figures it out with “a little bit of help.”

3. Podcasting as a Modern Networking Tool (11:31–13:32)

• Travis shares his own realization: podcasting was the single greatest tool for opening doors to meaningful relationships.
  • Modern tech has “flattened the communication hierarchy.” Where once there were layers (receptionist, assistant, etc.), now anyone can reach out through digital channels.
  • “Today, people—the technology allows us to stay in touch.” (Dr. Misner, 07:26)
• Networking, even at a large scale, is more accessible and affordable; technology has made global connection cheap and simple.

4. The Stigma and Substance of "Networking" (14:52–17:55)

• Many people hold a negative view of networking—often due to bad experiences with transactional or “slimy” approaches.
• Dr. Misner’s Core Principle: Good networking is about building relationships, not quick sales.
• The VCP Process:
  • Visibility: People know who you are.
  • Credibility: They know what you do and that you do it well.
  • Profitability: Only then do opportunities and referrals naturally arise.
  • Quote: “Networking is a marathon, not a sprint... it’s about making connections, not just contacts.” (16:05)
• 94% of 12,000 surveyed (globally, not just BNI members) said networking played a role in their success.

5. Networking vs. "Making Friends"—A False Dichotomy (18:53–20:36)

• Travis notes that those most effective at networking don’t distinguish between “networking” and making friends.
• Misner agrees: “Effective networking is more relational than transactional.” (19:29)
• Data Insight: Women (found to network more relationally) get more business from networking than men (who skew transactional).
  • Relational networking—regardless of gender—wins.

6. Practical Strategies: How to Be Relational vs. Transactional (20:36–27:43)

• Relational Introduction Example:
  • “Hi, great to meet you! How did you hear about tonight’s event?”—building on shared connections before business.
• Transactional Introduction Example:
  • “Hi, I’m the VP of Marketing at Company X, I run a team of 300, and we do $8M a year.” (Used more often and more effectively with men.)
• Memorable Story: Dr. Misner’s wife knew personal details about their dry cleaners (names, family, pets), while Ivan didn’t even know their names—highlighting the relational vs. transactional dynamic in real life. (26:14–27:09)
• Takeaway: Don’t act like another gender, but do strive to be relational and empathetic. Inappropriate relationality is cautioned against, but appropriate personal connection is the key to memorable, lasting relationships.

7. The Importance of ROR (Return on Relationships) & Patience (27:43–29:22)

• Networking isn’t about immediate ROI—it’s about investing in relationships and being patient for results.
  • “Networking is more about farming than hunting... you're gathering relationships over time.” (28:11)
• People recognize networking’s value but fail to prioritize it consistently.

8. Final Perspective: It’s Not Who or What You Know, It’s How Well (29:32–30:37)

• Final Quote: “It’s not what you know or who you know. It’s how well you know each other that counts.” (29:35)
• The real power comes not from volume of contacts but from the depth of connection and how likely a contact is to answer your call or help when you ask.

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• On High-Tech, High-Touch Networking:
  “The more technologically advanced we become, the more important it is to have that connection with people.” (Dr. Misner, 04:34)
• Generational Critique is Timeless:
  “The children today love comfort… They have bad manners… They love chatter in place of exercise. Any idea who wrote that?... Socrates.” (Dr. Misner, 09:56–10:12)
• The Truth about Transactional Networking:
  “People go to networking events and they feel like they’ve been slimed and need to go home and get a shower. That’s networking—it’s just bad networking.” (Dr. Misner, 15:09)
• Relational vs. Transactional Data:
  “Women were more likely to be relational than men… and women generated a higher percentage of business through networking than men did.” (Dr. Misner, 19:34–19:59)
• On Patient Relationship-Building:
  “Networking is a marathon, not a sprint. And if you’re trying to run through it, it’s not going to work.” (Dr. Misner, 29:16)
• It’s About Connection Depth:
  “It’s not what you know or who you know; it’s how well you know them that really counts.” (Dr. Misner, 29:35)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:27: Dr. Misner explains making tough choices as your business grows
• 04:34: On how technology has changed, but basics of connection haven’t
• 09:56: Socrates' quote about generational attitudes
• 12:55: The old phone bill vs. today’s nearly-free digital communication
• 14:52: The negative stigma around “networking” (and why it exists)
• 16:05: The VCP (Visibility, Credibility, Profitability) process
• 19:29: “Networking is more relational than transactional.”
• 21:54: Real-world example of relational introductions
• 26:14: Story: Dr. Misner’s wife knows the dry cleaners’ names and lives—he doesn’t
• 28:11: “Networking is more about farming than hunting.”
• 29:35: Final wisdom about depth of connections

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Actionable Takeaways

• Focus on building relationships, not just collecting contacts.
• Be patient: Invest in people over time and results will follow.
• Use modern tools to flatten hierarchies and open doors, but don’t neglect authenticity and personal touch.
• Adapt your networking style to your audience, but always keep it relational.
• Remember: It’s not about knowing the most people, but being genuinely known by the right people.

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For more resources from Dr. Ivan Misner, visit ivanmisner.com (free blog/content) or discover business networking groups at bni.com.

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This episode is an essential listen for anyone looking to move past superficial networking, develop sincere relationships, and leverage those connections into meaningful, mutual business growth.

Transcript

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[Travis]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast, presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast, where it's our mission to help you make more money. Today on the show, I am talking to a new friend of mine, slash old friend of mine. We'll get into that in a second. His name is Dr. Ivan Meisner. He's the founder and chief visionary officer of bni, the world's largest business networking organization. It's founded back in 1985. The organization now has over 11,700 chapters in 76 countries throughout the world. Last year alone, BNI generated 17.8 million referrals, resulting in more than $26 billion worth of business for its members. He's also a New York Times bestselling author who's written 32 books, including his newest, Networking is a marathon, not a Sprint. Called the father of modern networking by both Forbes and cnn, he is considered to be one of the world's leading experts networking. Ivan, welcome back to the show.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Thank you. It's good to be on.

[Travis]

So I don't know if you even remember this, Ivan, but this show is sort of a rebrand. It used to be called Build you'd Network, and it was a show all about networking for business owners, entrepreneurs. And I started it back in 2017 and I refer to this all the time because I loved what this said about the power of podcasting and building relationships. But I reached out to you back then for an interview because of course, it was the like. I'm starting a show about networking, may as well get the father of modern networking on the show. And I did not expect you to reply to the email that I sent. And I, and I asked you for a couple minutes of your time and I remember you replying to the email and saying like, well, I, you know, can't just jump on calls with everybody who asks me for my time. But if you want to shoot me a question on the email, I'll do my best to reply, you know, at some point. So I was like, okay, great, I'll take whatever I can. So I shot you an email back with a question about networking. I forget what it was. And then you saw that I was the host of a podcast in my email signature, and you offered to be a guest on the show at that point, which is really what I wanted. The whole time I thought I was just going in for a smaller ass.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

You didn't want to shoot that high.

[Travis]

That's right. That's right.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

You know, coming on interview, interviews. I love doing interviews. That's what I do most of the time now is interviews. But with 355,000 members, I can't answer every question that I'm asked. However, if I do an interview, then I get to talk to hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of people. And so at some point in your business, as you scale, and this is for your audience, when you scale your business, you have to make tough choices. And sometimes those tough choices are learning what to say no to and what to say yes to and what to say no.

But I can do this instead.

What you know, what to give alternatives.

And so that was. That's a pretty common strategy for me to say I can't do that, but I could do this if you'd like.

[Travis]

Well, it meant a lot to me at this, I think. I think you might have been episode like maybe 18 or 19 or something like your first batch of episodes ever recorded. And now we are past 1600 episodes on the show, I believe now.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Good for you.

[Travis]

In the past eight and a half years. So I appreciate you for coming for. For coming on the show that early. That early on, it gave me a lot of confidence to continue reaching out to people who I felt were, you know, out of my league, so to speak, as guests on the show. And I've been able to learn a lot from those people. So I appreciate you for being willing to spend time with. I think I was 24, 25 at the time and, you know, answer some of the questions that I had around this topic of networking and relationships. And that's where I would love to continue the conversation now.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Let's continue it.

[Travis]

Yeah, please. I would love to hear your perspective on what you view has changed and in the business relationship world since you founded BNI back in the 80s versus now you know, being in the 2000s.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah. Well, maybe less than you might think or less than people would think. Because, you know, the truth is people still want to have, you know, we have gone in, and I think it was, I'm trying to remember the original author Nesbitt wrote, we're moving into a high tech, high touch society. And so I think that's, you know, he wrote that in the 80s, and so I think that's more true than ever. The more technologically advanced we become, the more important it is to have that connection with people. And so, you know, in the 80s, when I started BNI, there was no computers, no Internet, and so that personal connection was very important. But here's the problem. We didn't teach people how to network back then. You know, the people when I started bni, no one knew how to network.

It's not taught in colleges and universities

back then, it's not taught now. But there are many books now written and there's a lot of podcasts and a lot of interviews like this where we talk about it. So in some ways we've gotten better, I think, in the process of networking because we're teaching people how to do it in other ways. There are challenges that need to be dealt with. You know, I hear a lot of comments from people with gray hair like me that young people today just don't know how to interact with people. And I, I would say yes and no.

You know, we didn't know how to do it. When I was 28, I started being

I, when I was 28, I was

Method acting my way through the process.

I didn't, I didn't know how to

network because you don't teach it.

So I, I, it's like, for me, it's like, cut, cut the young people some slack because we didn't know how to network either. And we had to figure it out. Here's the one advantage that young people have of networking from what we had, and it's what most people think of as a disadvantage, but I think it's an advantage. And that's social media online. Young people today, they know how to connect with each other. Well, we didn't have that.

I went to school with some amazing people. My doctoral degree, the deputy director of the Federal Aviation Administration.

Wow. I went to school with, back in the late 80s, early 90s, I went to school with.

This is going to blow your mind. I went to school with the captain of the palace guard for Saddam Hussein. What I did. I went to college, university, a PhD

program he was the captain of the palace guard.

Now I'm sure he's not around. I couldn't stay in touch with him today, but. But it would have been nice to stay in touch with Mac McClure, who

is the deputy director of the Federal Aviation Administration. But back in the late 80s, if I wanted to stay in touch with

somebody, I could, I could, you know, type them a letter or I could call. Now you try to get through to the deputy director. Yeah, there was no mobile phones, right.

So, you know, I just couldn't stay in touch with these people. But today, people, the technology allows us to stay in touch. And so it's, you know, there are bad.

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[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

There are challenges with young people today in networking, but there are advantages, and the young people know how to use those advantages.

Let me just do one quick. I'll paraphrase a quote for you, and then. And then I'll stop talking, let you

ask your next question.

Here's a great quote. I'm going to paraphrase it.

The children today love comfort. They don't have social skills.

They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders, and they

love chatter in place of exercise. Any idea who wrote that?

[Travis]

Somebody from a long time ago, I'm assuming.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Socrates.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah, Socrates wrote that. So, you know, it's like we all.

Every generation says this about the younger generation.

I grew up in the 60s. People thought the world was going to go to hell in a handbasket. 60s kids, right? 60s and early 70s.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

I graduated from high school in 74. Yeah. So the world, you know, adults back

then thought the world was coming to an end because young people were crazy.

Yeah.

[Travis]

Nothing new under the sun, even the concepts.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

So I have faith in young people to figure this out with a little bit of help. Yeah.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's. That's kind of the whole point. Right. Is like, we're all just trying to get a little bit better generation by generation, and we tend to vilify that which we do not understand. And older generations always, like, don't understand younger generations because that's not the way that they grew up. And it feels like that translates to every generation. And, yeah, there may be some things that, you know, the level of distraction is probably unprecedented now, which would be one of the cons. But the level of potential connection is also never been as high as it is now.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Correct.

[Travis]

It's sort of like there's always going to be a bunch of pros, there's always going to be a bunch of cons, and the people who win are the people who just try to figure it out the best they can.

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Yeah.

[Travis]

Which is one of the reasons that I still have my podcast, like, for. For quite some time, it felt like I was, you know, on the treadmill of just creating and creating, creating. And then because my show was called build your network at the time, I was going on Other podcasts, people would ask me about networking, what I've learned from asking, you know, brilliant people like you about it. And I always gave them some sort of, like, for the first couple of years anyway, I would give them some sort of like a principle that I had learned or understood, something about value or something about thinking long term or something like some sort of, you know, principle of building relationships better. And then I started thinking about it really from a granular perspective and started really realizing that the podcast was the answer. It was like the number one way that I was able to get in touch with people, build relationships, build rapport. And to your point, that's a tool that we now have at our disposal that anybody can start with their iPhone in their spare bedroom. That was not available to, to, you know, 1980s version of. Of things like that.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

You go back to 19. I started B&I in 1985. By 1986, I was opening up BNI chapters in various states around the U.S. we didn't go global for. We didn't go international until a few years later. But the second largest line item, to address your point, the second largest line item in my budget in 1986 was the telephone bill.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Salaries were number one. Phone bill was number two. Because just calling 20 or 30 miles away was. I forget what they call. It wasn't long distance, but it was something in between. And then, of course, long distance calls calling another state, that was crazy money. And I had to get an 800 number because people didn't want to make a long distance call to my office. So I had an 800 number, and the phone bill was huge compared to my overall budget today. Look at this. We're doing this technology online.

This costs us virtually nothing. Yeah, right. The Internet, whatever it costs you to

be on the Internet, maybe whatever it

costs to use the service, that's it.

It's virtually nothing. I don't know. I don't even know where the phone bill is anymore.

[Travis]

I don't like miscellaneous expenses.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah, it's nothing.

So what happens is technology today, and this is one of the benefits for networking, is it's flattened the communication hierarchy. You know, if you go back to 1993, before the Internet, 94, 95, before the Internet became a thing, if somebody wanted to get through to me, they had to find my phone number, call the phone number, get the reception desk, get put forward to my assistant, and then my assistant was the guardian of my calendar.

That's right.

And then maybe they'd get put through. Usually they would be you know, something

would be scheduled or, you know, she

would say, I'll get back to you today. Anybody can connect with me directly on my website. You know, I have a blog, ivanmeisner.com and so if somebody does a contact us, I see everything and I respond to a lot of them directly. So that's what I mean by it flattens the communication hierarchy. Social media like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, X, all of those, you know, people can connect directly in ways that we didn't even dream of in the 80s.

[Travis]

So just to pivot a little bit, networking in general, I'm curious to hear your take on this. Do you feel in your mind that there is a negative stigma associated with the word networking? If so, you know, why or why not?

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Well, with many people there is. Yeah. Because networking, most people do it wrong. Yeah, most people think that networking is a face to face, cold calling opportunity. And so they, you know, it's like, hi Travis, my name's Ivan, let's do business. And so, you know, people go to networking events and they feel like they've been slimed and they need to go home and get a shower. And so that's why they have a negative impression on what networking is. But that's, that's, that's networking. It's just bad networking. You know, they're, they're good sales, they're

bad sales, they're good sales.

People that really want to build a relationship and learn what you need and they're there for you and they sell you what you need. And then there's bad salespeople that will just sell you, sell, sell, sell. No matter what. There's good networking, there's bad networking. Good networking is about building relationships. That's what it is. Good networking is about going through what I call the VCP process. Visibility, credibility, profitability. First you have to be visible. People have to know who you are. Then you move to credibility where people know who you are, they know what you do, they know you're good at it. And then, and only then can you get the profitability where people know who you are, they know what you do, and they know you're good at and they're willing to give you referrals. So I just wrote a book, my 32nd book is Networking is a Marathon, not a Sprint. And if you treat networking like a marathon, and by marathon I mean take your time, build relationships. It's not about exchanging cards and making contacts, it's about making connections. Making connections takes time. So do people have a bad feeling or have a Bad sense of the phrase networking. Yes, Many do. However, and this is an interesting statistic. We surveyed 12,000 people a few years ago for a book on gender and networking. It's controversial title Business Networking and Sex. Not what you think. It was about the difference between men and women and how they network. And we asked them, has networking played a role in your success? Now, on one hand you have people who say, you know, I don't like to network. But when we asked that question, 94% of 12,000 people, and they weren't just BNI members, it was open to the public. 94% of the respondents said, yeah, networking's played a role in my success.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

So you may or may not like it, but it's important.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

And the overwhelming.

I mean, when have you ever seen

94 of any group of people who

agree to anything agree on one thing?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

You can't get a political party to agree 94 to something. So.

But 94 of 12, 000 people all over the world, by the way. It was all over the world. Wow. Said networkings played a role in their success. So it's.

It.

You don't. If you can learn how to do it and like it by understanding that it's about building relationships.

[Travis]

What's funny is that. So this show ended up becoming Travis Makes Money, obviously, because I wanted to keep, like, business conversations over.

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[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Which is what Village Network was. However, when we rebranded this one, we split off a new podcast feed that I do. It's. It's more rare that I release over there. It's just more like whenever I find somebody that I'm really curious to talk to, we have a conversation about whatever, psychology, philosophy, comedy, sports, entertainment, whatever. But that show we called Travis Makes Friends. And the reason for that was that after all the time that I spent deep diving into the top

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[Travis]

networking and talking to hundreds of people, reading how many books about it? The core conclusion that I came to was that the people that do it the best don't treat networking and friend making as two separate activities. It's basically the same exact thing. The people who have the best relationships are the ones that are building relationships for the sake of the relationship, not for the sake of this, you know, secret goal that's hidden behind a closed door that you have to Try to finagle your way into this. Like, they're not playing these like weird social status games that some of the people who are quote, unquote, networking are playing. They're just making friends in a different context.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

100% it's effective. Networking is more relational than transactional.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

And if you go into it understanding that it's relational, not transactional, you're going to be more successful. In that same book, the gender book that we did, we found that women were more likely to be relational than men in terms of the way they networked. And men were a little more. A little more likely to be transactional than women in the way they networked. But the interesting thing was that women generated a higher percentage of business through their networking than men did.

[Travis]

Isn't that interesting?

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

And they were more relational than men in the way they network now. So we thought that was really very intriguing. So we merged men and women together just to forget about gender. And we just looked at relational versus transactional. And we found that men and women who were more relational in the way they networked were more successful at. They got a higher percentage of their business through networking than men and women who were transactional in the way they networked. So you're 100% correct. And we have hard data that showed it.

[Travis]

If someone's listening right now and they're thinking like, yeah, that makes sense, which one am I? How do you know if you're being more transactional, relational? And how do you build a networking system in your career, your professional life that pushes you more to the relational side?

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

So how many hours is this podcast? I'm sorry, how many hours is this podcast?

[Travis]

Yeah, let me see if I can

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

give you two or three things. Let me see if I can give you two or three things. Okay, so transactional. And I'll go back to the gender thing. You know, a lot of women complained that men introduce themselves like a resume. Hi, my name is Ivan Meisner.

You know, I'm the vice president of marketing for whatever company and I supervise

X number of people. We generate whatever number, and it's like a resume. And a number of women in this. We had open ended comments and questions and comments and we got that on the open ended stuff and we thought that was kind of interesting. Women were much more likely to introduce themselves relationally. And there's kind of a positive way to do it relationally and a negative way to do it relationally. So I'll give you a positive way first. And this is. This wasn't in the book.

But this became part of my presentation after the book came out, because I witnessed this.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

I was with a man and a woman, and a second woman came up.

And the second woman who came up, the first woman says to her, hi,

great to meet you.

How did you hear about tonight's event? Not what's your name?

What do you do?

How'd you hear about tonight's event? And the second woman said, oh, my friend Sally introduced me to or invited me to the event. And the first woman says, oh, you know Sally.

I know Sally, too.

How do you know Sally?

Now I look over at the guy, right? And the guy's like, kill me now. Who cares about Sally? You know, what is this about? Sally? We're here to do business, and they're talking about Sally. And I'm watching these two women make

this connection that has nothing to do with business, but it has to do with making a connection. And it hit me. That is a relational introduction to somebody. Whereas he was doing the resume thing now a bad way. So women are better at this than men. Hard data showing it. And if you're a woman. So I have two co authors, a man and a woman, and it was a woman. My female author, who says this in the book. If you're a woman introducing yourself to a man, introduce yourself like a resume.

[Travis]

Interesting. So shift style a little bit.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah.

You know, meet their style.

And she gave a great example. She talked about a cosmetics. A director of a cosmetics company who she was coaching. And she would introduce her to everyone. She would introduce herself to everyone. As you know, I really love what I do because gives me the free time to help, you know, to raise my family and to have, you know, free time, and yet I can run this successful business. And she's like, yeah, don't introduce yourself

like that to men.

Because then they're like, you know, yeah, yeah, you have free time to hang with your family. Good for you. I'm really pleased for you. Wait, I see somebody else more successful.

Let me go talk to them.

Right?

Good or bad? That's.

That's what she was saying.

Don't do that with men.

Instead of. She said she asked her a series of questions like, how many people does she supervise? What kind of numbers do they generate? So she said, when you're introducing yourself to a man, say, I'm the marketing director of a company called XYZ and I have 300 people under my management, and we do about $8 million a year in business.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Now you get this. You get a guy and he's like, wow, okay, tell me more.

That's. That's it now.

Good.

Bad. I'm not making judgment calls here.

[Travis]

Sure. Just presenting the data. Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

I'm just describing what was described to me by people in the field. And like, it. Don't like it. It.

It.

It's a reality that I observed.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

And so, okay, you want another story

about transaction versus relational.

This is, this is perfect story. It's perfect because, you know, I'm supposed

to be the world's leading expert on

networking, yet I'm also a guy, so I can fall into the transactional stuff. So, like, right before the book came

out, my, My late wife and I were. We were talking and, and I said, hey, I'm going to do a presentation tomorrow. And I always would run my presentations by her and get her feedback. I said, we're doing a presentation tomorrow and I'm going to do this thing because one of the interviews we did, a woman said that she was friends with her, with her dry cleaner. And I was like, friends with your dry cleaner? She said, yeah, yeah, we're friends. Like, what's that look like? And she said, well, you know, I know their names. I know their kids names. You know, they've been. I've been invited to their, to their kids birthday parties.

To their birthday parties.

The woman I was talking to was Jewish. They were Asian. You know, I share Jewish recipes.

She shares Asian recipes with me. We're friends.

I'm like, yeah, that sounds like friends. Okay.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

So I said to my wife, I

said, I'm going to ask the audience because I'm doing a presentation tomorrow. 500 people. I'm going to ask the audience. I'm going to say, guys, men only. How many of you are friends with your dry cleaner? Raise your hand. And I said, I don't think anybody.

I mean, like, maybe 5% of the audience might raise their hands of the men.

And then I said, then I'm going to ask the women, how many of

you ladies are friends with your dry cleaners? Raise your hand. And my wife, I swear to you, Travis, my wife says, oh, no, I'm not.

I'm not sure I would do that. And I said, why? She said, well, I mean, I'm not friends with Richard and Diane. I mean, I know them and I know Diane was walking up here the other day and she slipped and fell and she really hurt her knee.

And they've got these cute little dogs and they want to do some travel,

but Richard is really afraid of flying. And, oh, Wait, wait, maybe.

Maybe I am friends.

[Travis]

I might be friends with my dry cleaner.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

These were dry cleaners. They delivered clothes, right? So I saw them many times and I looked at my wife and I said, richard and Diane. Is that the names of our dry cleaners?

I didn't know their names.

[Travis]

That's so funny.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

She knew their names. She knew the kind of animals they had. She knew about an accident, that one of them actually knew about their travel. That's the difference.

So I'm not saying guys behave like a woman. I'm saying behave relationally. And for whatever reason we observed, we saw in the data that women tended to be more relational in the way they networked. And so the more you can be relational in the way you network in an appropriate way. Okay, you gotta always say that to the caveat.

[Travis]

Yeah, good.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Caveat in an appropriate way. The more relational you can be, the more likely you are to make a great connection with somebody, the more transactional you are. It's the transactional stuff that make people hate networking.

[Travis]

That's right. That's right. It also doesn't give you the result that you want. Like, the result that you want is long term flourishing and success. And if you do the, if you do the short term transactional thing, you will always have to do the short term transactional.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah, it's like, you know, networking is more about farming than hunting. If it's all about hunting, you know, you basically eat what you kill that week. Otherwise, if it's about farming, you're gathering relationships over time and generating business. So people say, why network? You know, well, you network to work your way through the VCP process. Visibility, credibility, profitability. You can go to a networking event, you might stumble over business. It happens occasionally where, you know, you meet somebody. But even a blind squirrel can find a nut.

I mean, you know, you can stumble

over business, but that's not the purpose of networking.

[Travis]

That's right. Which is one reason why a lot of people don't find time to put it in their calendar, even though they are also willing to admit, like you said, 94% of them, that it's something that has benefited them in their career or been a game changer for them.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Right. But they don't put the time in. You got to put the time in. That's the key.

[Travis]

We call, we've, we've come to call it. ROR says there's no, we can't, we can't predictably measure the roi, but there is a return on relationships and it will come. It's just a matter of, you know, are you willing to be patient enough to let the results speak for themselves?

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Patience is key. Networking is a marathon, not a sprint. And if you're trying to run through it, it's not going to work.

[Travis]

Ivan, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to come on the show again after Almost. Almost, I want to say, over eight years ago.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So I appreciate you.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Can I leave you with one last. Two last thoughts?

[Travis]

Please, please.

[Dr. Ivan Meisner]

Anyone interested? You know, IvanMeisner.com is my blog. It's all free stuff up there years and years. I think my first blog was in 07, so lots of stuff up there. And of course, bni.com for anyone interested in finding out about BNI. Let me leave you with one last thought. You know the old phrase, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Travis? I don't think it's either one. I don't think it's what you know or who you know. It's how well you know each other. It counts. I have amazing contacts in my mobile phone. I mean, I got a couple of billionaires, literally, that. I got their emails. I got their phone number. The key is not that they're in your contacts. The key is if I called them, would they answer my call? And if I asked them for a favor, would they be willing to do it? It's not what you know or who you know, it's how well you know them that really counts. And that's the key to the relationship building.

[Travis]

The father of modern networking, Dr. Ivan Meisner himself. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show again. Ivanmeisner.com you go to bni.com to find out about their local chapters in your community. Ivan, appreciate taking the time. I know you're a busy guy. I don't take that for granted at all. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's solve that one first here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time.