INTERVIEW | Make Money with Better Relationships, Richer Life Experiences, and World-Class Communication

Summary

Podcast Summary
Travis Makes Money
INTERVIEW | Make Money with Better Relationships, Richer Life Experiences, and World-Class Communication
July 12, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guests: John Levy, Bill Perkins, Guy Kawasaki

---

Episode Overview

This episode is a value-packed compilation featuring highlights from three powerhouse interviews with communication expert John Levy, author and investor Bill Perkins (“Die with Zero”), and tech evangelist Guy Kawasaki. The central theme revolves around making more money—not through extreme frugality, but by cultivating better relationships, richer life experiences, and world-class communication skills. Through candid discussion, the guests share practical strategies, thought-provoking philosophies, and hilarious anecdotes on building a life (and career) that’s both profitable and meaningful.

---

John Levy: The Psychology of Connection & High-Level Relationships

Key Discussion Points

• Dormant vs. Weak vs. Strong Ties (03:01)

  • Dormant ties (people you haven’t talked to in years, but who know you) are far more powerful than strong/close ties for professional opportunities like getting a new job.
  • Social networks create echo chambers; new opportunities come from outside your immediate circle.

• Levy’s Personal “Rock Bottom” & Reinvention (04:01)

  • Levy describes being overweight, broke, and stuck in life. Despite reading self-help books and working hard, nothing shifted until he began investigating how influential people connect and build relationships.
  • He spent a year observing “high-performers” to model their behavior.

• Social Pressures of Accomplished People (“STEAM” Model) (10:20)

  • Influential people face demands on: Social Clout, Time, Expertise, Access, and Money.
  • Layers of protection are necessary to filter through constant requests.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “People find jobs through loose ties or what you'd probably call dormant ties... They're generally happy to make connections for you.”
  — John Levy (03:07)

• “If somebody calls you up and says, ‘Hey, Travis, can I take you out for coffee and pick your brain?’ — the answer is, I have family... It’s weird.”
  — John Levy (05:11)

• "Don't offer to buy someone a cup of coffee if they could afford to buy the coffee shop."
  — John Levy (07:45)

• “Most people just will not do what they say they will do... it’s not difficult to be an outlier.”
  — Travis Chappell (10:10)

• “If you want to connect with someone truly successful, remember—they’re protecting their time, expertise, access, and money.”
  — John Levy (11:26)

Timestamps

• [03:01] → Dormant ties study and job finding
• [04:01] → Levy's personal turning point
• [05:53] → The problem with asking to “pick someone’s brain”
• [07:45] → Advice on approaching high-level people
• [10:20] → The STEAM model: understanding powerful people

---

Bill Perkins: Die With Zero—Rethinking Wealth, Fulfillment, and Legacy

Key Discussion Points

• The Declining Utility of Money & Life Chapters (13:01, 15:00)

  • Perkins realized early on that the value of money declines with age; the real goal should be life fulfillment, not simply accumulating wealth.
  • Life comes in non-overlapping chapters—what’s meaningful in your 20s won’t be possible (or desirable) in your 70s.

• Pushback and Fears About “Die With Zero” (16:39, 18:31)

  • Critics fear outliving their money; Perkins argues this is best managed with regular planning and appropriate insurance, not endless, joyless saving.
  • The “Ramsey crowd” (Dave Ramsey fans) focuses on optimizing money, but Perkins advocates optimizing fulfillment above all.

• Spending with Intention & the “Relay Race” Principle (20:26)

  • Money tools are to serve your values. Don’t become obsessed with net worth at the expense of experiences or time with loved ones.
  • Each financial “school” (e.g., Ramsey, Attia) has merit, but they all serve the overarching goal of a fulfilling life.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Nobody says, ‘I want to be a millionaire by 86.’ Inherent in that is people realize the utility of money declines with age.”
  — Bill Perkins (13:39)

• “Money is just a tool for the life that you want... If you get so obsessed with getting the tool, you never build a house with the hammers and saws.”
  — Bill Perkins (15:11)

• “The number one goal is fulfillment. I’m not on this planet to be the healthiest, or optimize every second, or the wealthiest… [it] would be like winning all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens and never turning them in.”
  — Bill Perkins (18:36)

• “When you live your most fulfilling life, other people around you have a fulfilling life... Money’s just flying around—the waitress, tour guide, business, they’re living their dreams too.”
  — Bill Perkins (22:27)

Timestamps

• [13:01] → Origins of the “Die With Zero” philosophy
• [15:00] → Money as a tool vs. life’s end goal
• [16:39] → Pushback from readers and critics
• [20:26] → Money as a relay race; optimizing fulfillment
• [22:27] → Ripple effects: happiness and “velocity of money”

---

Guy Kawasaki: Pitching, Podcasting, and “Guy’s Golden Touch”

Key Discussion Points

• The Real “Guy’s Golden Touch” (23:43, 24:02)

  • Kawasaki dispels myths about turning all ventures to gold: “Whatever’s gold, Guy touches”—success comes from betting on many ideas and recognizing winners after the fact.

• Podcasting as a Calling & Lifelong Learning (24:55, 26:46)

  • Kawasaki claims his podcast is “the best work of [his] career,” offering the greatest fulfillment, even if it’s underrated by audiences.
  • Podcasting forces him to continually learn—52 new deep subjects each year—which, he jokes, helps him “delay dementia.”

• 10-Slide Pitch Deck Philosophy (27:52, 28:09)

  • Years in venture capital taught Kawasaki to cut through bad pitches; he created the 10/20/30 Rule (10 slides, 20 minutes, 30-point font) to bring discipline to startup pitching.
  • He’s baffled at would-be entrepreneurs who ignore his hard-won advice: “Did you not just tell me you read my book?... How the hell are you showing up with 60 slides?”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If you want to guarantee good outcomes, I’ll tell you how we do it in Silicon Valley: we throw a lot of shit up against the wall, and paint a target around what stuck.”
  — Guy Kawasaki (24:02)

• “I think I am delaying dementia.”
  — Guy Kawasaki (27:18)

• “Needless to say, I don’t invest in people who cannot read.”
  — Guy Kawasaki (29:15)

Timestamps

• [23:43] → The myth of “Guy’s Golden Touch”
• [24:55] → Podcasting as life’s highest calling
• [25:43] → Most remarkable podcast guests
• [26:46] → Podcasting for lifelong brain health
• [28:09] → Origins and importance of the 10-slide pitch deck

---

Summary Table: Highlights & Takeaways

| Segment | Guest | Core Insight | Memorable Quote | Timestamp | |---------|---------------|--------------|------------------|--------------| | Relationships | John Levy | Dormant ties are the overlooked goldmine for opportunity. | "Don't offer to buy someone a cup of coffee if they could afford to buy the coffee shop." | 07:45 | | Money & Fulfillment | Bill Perkins | Life fulfillment is the true goal; money is the tool. | "Nobody says, ‘I want to be a millionaire by 86.’" | 13:39 | | Communication | Guy Kawasaki | Success = lots of attempts; podcasting is lifelong education. | "We throw a lot of shit up against the wall, and paint a target around what stuck." | 24:02 |

---

Overall Episode Takeaways

• Don't Rely on Familiar Circles: Cultivate and reconnect with dormant/loose ties for real breakthroughs (Levy).
• Money Should Enable Life, Not Replace It: Prioritize meaningful experiences over hoarding wealth; fulfillment > finance (Perkins).
• Be Direct and Respectful With Experts: When reaching out, do your homework and offer clear value, not vague “pick your brain” requests (Levy, Kawasaki).
• Volume and Follow-Through Matter: Success often comes from taking many shots and learning after the fact; most people fail to execute on advice (Kawasaki, Chappell).
• Stay Curious for a Sharp Mind: Podcasting and learning new topics regularly are tools for staying mentally agile and engaged (Kawasaki).

---

Memorable, Relatable, and Actionable

This episode distills timeless advice from top performers and redefines what it means to make more money—by building high-value relationships, living a life worth spending on, and communicating with clarity and impact. Each guest provides both philosophy and nuts-and-bolts tactics you can put to work immediately, whether you’re launching a company, changing careers, or chasing more fulfilling days.

---

For further insights from these guests, consider checking out John Levy’s books on connection, Bill Perkins’ “Die With Zero,” and Guy Kawasaki’s podcast “Remarkable People.”

Transcript

[John Levy]

I'm Arch Manning. I'm Madison Skinner. I'm Eva Jovic.

[Bill Perkins]

I'm Decoria Moore.

[John Levy]

Wanna train like a Red Bull athlete? Tell us your fitness goals this summer to enter the Red Bull Athlete Challenge. You'll get to try each of our workouts for a chance to win an ultimate Red Bull experience.

[Travis]

Think you have what it takes? You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by gohighlevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet, just go to gohighlevel.com travis what's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast where it's our mission to help you make more money on this episode of the show. I have three new people on this compilation series that you're going to absolutely love. For a recap, we're doing the first half of 2026. We interviewed so many amazing people and I just want to make sure that you didn't miss any of these episodes. You didn't miss some of the value that we packed into some of these episodes. So we're going back through finding some unique commonalities here and putting some of the content from these interviews into single episodes. So you can just get a episode jam packed with value. So on this episode we are featuring a few more business authors. First of all we have John Levy. John Levy is a communication expert, a self proclaimed introvert who has been able to make himself a pretty significant living honestly through doing this. This is actually for Travis Makes Friends, but we put a preview here on the Travis Makes Money podcast and I thought this one would be really interesting. Talks about his secret his secret dinner series. Talks about the four psychological triggers that open doors with high level perform. Really one of the episodes I'm most proud of in recent memory just because of the volume, the density of information and value that we got into. So John Levy is the first guest we're featuring on this episode. Next we have Bill Perkins who wrote an amazing book called Die with Zero that helped reframe a way that a lot of people think about their wealth building and their legacy and things like that. And so Bill's book is a massive hit bestseller and a fascinating guy to talk to. And then Guy Kawasaki, who is sort of famous for his part in the Apple campaign think different back in the day. And he was in the room with Steve Jobs when they were coming up with this marketing campaign. And then he created this sort of like new world for himself where he was Apple's chief evangelist and then started being other brands chief evangelists. So he's now the chief evangelist of Canva. He's a multiple time New York Times bestselling author. His 10 page, his 10 slide pitch deck is become famous in Silicon Valley for being like the blueprint because he was so sick and tired of seeing these 50 page pitch decks when people were trying to pitch their companies. And then he's got the book and podcast Remarkable people. Just a really fascinating guy to talk to. I'm always, it's always a pleasure for me to speak with Guy. So John Levy, Bill Perkins and Guy Kawasaki, three heavy hitters on this episode. Just for you guys. Please enjoy and let me know what you think. Have you done, have you done much thinking about like dormant ties versus weak ties versus strong ties or seeing any data as it relates to those things? And when it comes to success and

[John Levy]

careers or professionalism, the most famous study was done on LinkedIn. It was probably like 15 years ago or maybe 10 years ago. And that one asked how do people find jobs? And overwhelmingly the what they found was that people find jobs through loose ties or what you'd probably call dormant ties, which are people that you maybe went to college with or you worked in the same office 10 years ago. Yeah, but you haven't really stayed in touch. But you're connected, so there's familiarity. And the reason for that is pretty simple. The people you hang out with probably all know each other. A lot of them are probably in the same industry, have the same contact, same knowledge and same access. So if you suddenly want to go work at a company and you don't know people there, chances are the people you hang out with the most don't either. Sure, it's the people who you're loosely connected to. And if you've been a decent person to people, then yeah, overwhelmingly they're happy to hear from you and they're generally happy to make connections for you.

[Travis]

What brought you down this rabbit hole?

[John Levy]

Oh, I was overweight, broke, underemployed, and I was like, I was literally setting an alarm every day at 6am and then hitting snooze so many times and being like, why can't I get my life in order? Why can't I make money? Why can't I figure this out? And I tried. You know, I'd read every book and I'd be like, yeah, happ bits and whatever it is, but none of it seemed to really stick. I thought, you know, I'm a smart guy, I'm willing to Work hard, what's wrong with me? And so I spent a year trying to model the behavior and understand what would cause really important and influential people to connect with me. And I ended up discovering kind of this model and then applying it and making really profound relationships.

[Travis]

How old were you when you had this sort of discovery realization?

[John Levy]

Like 29 or so? 30.

[Travis]

And what type of, like, what type of career path were you on at that time?

[John Levy]

I was, I'd done a bunch of startups and I. None of them really hit okay. And so I was doing like freelance work or consulting work, but nothing was,

[Travis]

you know, for a specific modality or.

[John Levy]

Oh, it was like digital strategy type stuff. Okay. But it wasn't any breakaway success. Yeah, this would have been. So I. Let me think. 30. I would have been 2010. Ish. And so I. What I ended up doing was I asked all my friends who are connected to influential people if I could interview or connect with them and kind of understand their behaviors. And what we ended up discovering was that there's kind of five major social pressures that they have that were really different than my life. And I didn't understand that. Right. And I'll give you a simple example. If somebody calls you up and says, hey, Travis, you've been really successful, can I take you out for coffee and pick your brain? Like, the answer is, I have like family of cozy. Yeah, like it's, it's weird.

[Travis]

I literally just had this conversation this past week on somebody else's show because they asked me something about like, how do you get in touch with people or what do you say? And I was like, well, I'll tell you what not to say. Yeah, that was the literal cup, cup of coffee, virtual cup of coffee. Pick your brain. I was like, don't ever say these are in the don't list. Oh yeah, there's a, there's a bunch of different options in the do list. Ones are absolutely in the don't list because yeah, I tell people all the time, man, like, picking my brain does not sound fun. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a good time. And frankly, if I'm gonna let somebody pick my brain, it's gonna be my six year old son.

[John Levy]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like, I would rather take my free time to hang out with him than like go to a random coffee shop across town to do free coaching essentially with no guarantee of you actually doing the work. Like, I don't even know if it's gonna be a waste of time or a fruitful conversation. It's not that I'm Opposed to helping somebody, it's that I'm opposed to wasting. And somebody reaching out cold has not proven that. There's somebody who's. This is going to sound terrible, but worth spending the time with. Like, they're, they're. They have not proven that. It's like that they're somebody who's going to actually take the things that I say and go implement them. Because if I could guarantee that, I might actually take the time to do it, because you. I'll tell people that as well. Successful people want to give back. They want to be helpful. We. I think we have this idea and culture sort of puts out this concept that rich people got rich or because they just screw everybody over all the time. And in my experience, it's actually been quite the opposite. There's some of the most generous and caring people that I know. And of course there's some bad ones.

[John Levy]

Of course.

[Travis]

Like, there's bad poor people, you know what I mean? But. But there's also some really great generous people. And that's how they got rich. You know, it was being generous and giving and learning how to add value and give back and things like that. So they want to help. It's just that they're not gonna. They're not gonna waste their time. So you have to figure out how to give, vote, give a. Put across the idea that I am not somebody who's going to sit here and waste your time.

[John Levy]

The one of the things that I love to point out is don't offer to buy somebody a cup of coffee if they could afford to buy the coffee shop. Like, it's. You have to understand the scale. And I know you're young and you. This isn't your world.

[Travis]

You're eager.

[John Levy]

Yeah, yeah. But like, don't confuse those things. The other thing is that you're. I think you're absolutely right. Nobody implements, like, nobody. And so it's super frustrating and it's disheartening. When you're on the 30th conversation or 50th conversation and you keep seeing that, like, nothing you're doing actually has an impact.

[Travis]

That's right.

[John Levy]

Then, yeah. And people are like, no, no, this one's different. No, it isn't. Unless you actually show that you can have a track record of executing.

[Travis]

It's like, okay, we'll prove it and then show me the results. And then I'm happy to jump back on another call or something. Something like that.

[John Levy]

Exactly.

[Travis]

Friend. I was out with a friend a couple nights ago.

[John Levy]

And the other thing Especially for you. Yeah. Is like, if you're going to ask to. For my knowledge and you haven't read my book or listened to your podcast, then. Are you kidding me?

[Travis]

Right.

[John Levy]

I have put in all this effort to consolidate this knowledge to help you. Because I will tell you this much. As an author, I make nothing off of my books. Right. I make my money off of speaking and training and working with large companies. If I went to all that effort, read it, absorb it, and then let's have a conversation.

[Travis]

A hundred percent.

[John Levy]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I put out 1500 podcast episodes now.

[Guy Kawasaki]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like, there's no shortage of information of. From. Directly from my brain. If you want some of the information, ask ChatGPT.

[John Levy]

What would John Levy or Travis say about this? There is so much material that we produced.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly. No, I was out with a friend a couple nights ago and we were having drinks, and he's a successful guy and there's a lot of people that want a lot of his time. And we're just having some drinks. And he said. He said, you know, something I appreciate about you is that you actually, like, do the things that I suggest that you do.

[John Levy]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Which is. Which, you know, was coming up when we're just talking about this, because it was like, that's probably why he actually likes to spend some time with me, because I'm not just, like, sitting there asking for opinions and advice that I'm not willing to take action on. And he said, do you know how many people I talk to that, like, don't come through this, like, paid program or aren't part of my coaching or whatever, who actually do the things I tell them? And I was like. I don't know, a few. He was like, zero.

[John Levy]

Yeah, zero.

[Travis]

So it's not difficult to be an outlier because most people just will not do what they say they will do and. Or will not do what is suggested they should do?

[John Levy]

Yeah, the what. So here's what's really interesting. Now, if we actually want to connect to get back to that topic, if we actually want to connect, one of the things that is important to realize is the people that you want to connect with have different social pressures than you. Right. So if you want to connect with somebody who is really junior in their career, they got plenty of time. Nobody's after them. They're happy to talk to you. But once you get to the point that you have, let's say, industry influence. Right. You have an impact on an industry through your thought leadership, your position, your previous success, the kind of people you want to surround you, to be your brain trust, whatever you want to call it. They have five major social pressures. The first is, and I call it steam. They want your social clout because hanging out with you gives them street cred, right? So if you're constantly hanging out with the CEO of such and such company, then people are like, oh, that, that person must be up to something. Why do they know the big boss so and so forth. The second is they want your time for whatever reason, right? Your expertise, because you have if, when you've gotten to that level, you've developed some knowledge that they want your access because you can get into places or get to things that they just cannot. And they want your money either. Donations, investments, contracts, whatever it is. And those five things means that they have to have layer after layer of protection up in order to stop people from getting it. Because there are more people who want it than the resources that they have.

[Google Chrome Ad Voice]

That is why this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, set up, required compatibility and availability various 18

[Indeed Ad Voice]

when you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. That's Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored jobs.

[Travis]

Wildly true. Where along the journey did the concept of Die with zero come from? And why did you feel compelled to get that message out?

[Bill Perkins]

It started very early, but it was immature in the beginning when I was broke, a screen clerk on the floor and you know, in lower Manhattan, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a millionaire. I used to say, you know, but I'd look around and I was young, I was 21, 22, and they were older, 30s, you know, 40s. And to me that was ancient, right? And, and so, and, and I was, I was, I was having the questions like, what is it for? Like, I gotta get rich before I'm 30. I got I gotta be a millionaire before I'm 30. You know, nobody says, I want to be a millionaire by 86.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Bill Perkins]

Those words just are never uttered on the planet. Right. And inherent in that observation is that people realize that the utility of money declines with age. And so there's this kind of like, well, what's the use of money at 80? You know? Right. And so then that asks the question, okay, when does it become useless? Right. There must be some sort of curve. It's not like, instantaneously it becomes. And so I thought about, like, kind of the declining utility of money when it should be consumed, when it should be earned, and all those things about, like, what is my life going to be like? Like, why am I working for this money? Because, you know, at the end of the day, I don't give a damn about the money. I care about the life that I'm going to have.

[Guy Kawasaki]

Yeah.

[Bill Perkins]

And so that was the original thoughts. And around this time, I read this book called you'd money or your life, which launched the fire movement. I don't know if anybody's familiar with the financial independence retire early. But that's kind of like their bible. And I took something away from it that instead of trying to be frugal, I just wanted to be rich. So I didn't. I. I didn't want to worry about my hours. I wanted one. One hour of my time to be worth thousands and thousands and thousands of other people's hours. Right. Like, so I kind of went the other way, right? Yeah. Put you in touch with your values. But I was like, hey, I just want to make a bunch of money. But even though I wanted to make a bunch of money, what's it for? And that started the whole I would zero thought process. Yeah.

[Travis]

I've heard you say money is not the end goal. Right. The fulfilling life is the end goal. And sometimes we conflate those two things as though they are the same when they're actually wildly different.

[Bill Perkins]

It's pretty bad because it's like in the casino, like, they're just chips. You know, you're throwing the chips around, right. Like, it's just money and you're trying to get another high score. And if I get this money, and it's like the money is just a tool for the life that you want. And I think if you get so obsessed with, you know, getting the tool, I always say, like getting hammers and saws, you never build house with the hammers and saws. And. And the money is there is to. To build the Life. And So, you know, D0 is kind of me wrestling with those questions, like, okay, when should my net worth peak? Right? It's not a number, it's a date, right? Because it, it doesn't matter. I'm going to die one day. And not only am I going to die one day, my body's going to decay, you know, and I won't be able to use the money and my, my preference is going to change. And also, you know, over my life, there's an order to my life based on your values. Like, there's a period when I would be single. There's a period when I'm going to be married. There's a period where I want to have small kids. There's a period when I'm going to just go adventuring, et cetera. And those fit in distinct chapters of my life and they don't transfer easily to the next chapter. And so all these questions and all these puzzles like, how, how do I organize this? How do I, what is it mental models I need to have? And so, and, and remember, the goal was like, I want the most fulfilling life possible that I can have. That is the goal.

[Travis]

What are some of the public points of pushback that you've gotten from the concept of the book?

[Bill Perkins]

I think, I think, you know, there's, I, I'll go with the people who haven't read the book first. And I address those. One is like, oh, that's easy for you to save for somebody who doesn't have kids. And I, I always say, well, this, if you read the book, there's a chapter called what about the Kids? And I'm talking about your money, not the kids money. You want to give money to your kids, take it aside, put it in a trust so that if you get into a bar fight, you don't lose it all, et cetera, and turn that money over to em at the appropriate time. Don't wait till you die. And you know, that's one of the biggest pushbacks to like financial planning is, is that an inheritance should never be a bequest. That is an asinine thing to be doing. And so I think a lot of financial advisors have been like, yeah, you're right. Yeah, this is something that we need to correct in our, in our, in our clients with, with planning for people who have read the book. I, I think it's a fear, like the biggest pushback is like, well, I don't know when I'm going to die, you know, that type of thing. And so, you know, it's a lot of what, what if I, I live to 150, you know, type, type things or, or you know, what about inflation or what about, you know, this, this fear of needing a big sum of money in their 80s or later in their life, right? Which the data doesn't show. And when you model doesn't matter that much if you live an extra five years or 10 years. It's, it's a, it's a recursive algorithm, mental algorithm. So you're always looking at it and updating every year based on when you're going to live. So it's really just fear based thinking on that. And I say this, that in the book. I say you're not, you're, you're not the best insurance agent. You basically trying to save a bunch of money to deal with all these eventualities that you're afraid of. It's like go to an insurance company, they're going to be cheaper. It's less edge than you wasting your life.

[Travis]

Do you get ever pushback from the, like the Ramsey tribe at all?

[Bill Perkins]

Actually the funny thing is is Dame Ramsey's daughter is a huge fan of the book. She's mentioned it four or five times on the show. They, they always put the caveat. I don't agree with everything in the book, even though damn it specifically told me. But the, my book is kind of like a macro look, right? Like there's the get wealthy crowd, right? Like and you should get your money right. Like there's optimizations for getting your money right. There's the health crowd. Like this is how you could be the healthiest person in the world is to optimize your health crowd. And there's the time management, optimize your health thing. And I say listen, these are three variables that everybody should optimize. Like Ramsey is great. This is how you should make money if you want to accumulate money, et cetera. Peter Attia the longevity people, the healthy people, the quantified self, these are great. And the time people. And I'm like, look, at the end of the day sits your values and all of these variables are in service of the number one goal. The number one goal is fulfillment. So I'm not here to be on this planet to be the healthiest guy in the world, right? That would not be fulfilling to me. Like it just takes too much time, right? I'm not trying to be optimizing every single bit of time. Like I like the lollygag and goof off and daydream. You know what I mean, and I'm not trying to be the wealthiest guy on the planet. Like, that would just be me working on a hamster on a wheel for no reward. I'd be winning all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens and never turning in the tokens for the comb with a doll, whatever you turn Chuck E. Cheese tokens into nowadays. And so I am adjacent or sit on top of the Ramsey crowd or the health crowd or et cetera. I'm like, this is great if, you know, get your money right. But make sure the money is for your life. Right. Use the tools that you create. Yeah.

[Travis]

That you don't get just so over, over obsessed with the balance of your 401k that you forget to use it to take your family on that trip before your kids run off to college.

[Bill Perkins]

Yeah. I look at it as like a relay race. Like, Ramsey is like passing the baton to me or to you. Right. The top level, and go, here's the money that I helped you create by following the Ramsey method or whatever, whatever they teach and getting your money wrapped. But now let's have a fulfilling life. What are your values? What do you want to do with this? Do you want to do charitable things? You want to do ethnistic things? What's the balance? You want to help out your grandmother? You want to go on a vacation, whatever it is, that's up to you. And then I, you know, what purity of a life should your consumption be? Because we're here to consume the fruits of our labor.

[Travis]

That's right.

[Bill Perkins]

So, you know, how does this, how, how does the consumption work? Over the course of my life, from now to the grave, how am I going to spend it all?

[Travis]

Have you heard any fun personal anecdotes or stories from people who have read the book and applied some of the

[Bill Perkins]

things you talked about all the time? I, I get a lot of DMs. It's funny because I, I've been recognized through my life. Roughly 1 in 300, 1 in 200 people will recognize me. And they used to be recognized for, I don't know, flying around and goofing off or poker or being a trader. And now it's mainly, like you wrote Die with zero, you know, and I, I get, I get lots of stories about people like, I convinced my parents to retire and come. And their job is just to spend time with my grandkids and, and create memory dividends with that. Like, I've been putting off X. You gave me the courage and permission to do Y. So I get a lot of Life stories about, you know, this happened, my mom died, and it really. I had the idea, but I didn't have it crystallized or written written out that way. And, and, and now they've taken an action and they're having a more fulfilling life. And because. And then it's radioactive. Because when you live your most fulfilling life, other people around you have a fulfilling life. Because life, like when you're enjoying the ride, you're most likely enjoying that ride with other people. And then they become inspired, right? And so. And then the velocity of money goes up, right? Money's just flying around. You know, the waitress and the guide and the tour guide and the business, they're, they're, they're. They're getting to live their dreams too, right? Because you're living a life. And so I have too many of those to remember.

[John Levy]

Introducing Meta glasses. You have questions, They've got answers.

[Guy Kawasaki]

Hey, Meta, what's the capital of Peru?

[Google Chrome Ad Voice]

Lima.

[Indeed Ad Voice]

How do you say where's the restroom in Spanish?

[Bill Perkins]

Donde esta Albano? Hey, Meta, is a hot dog a sandwich? Technically, no. Spiritually, yes. Hey, Mera, what should I do with my life? That's one of life's biggest questions. What do you think?

[John Levy]

Ask anything with the new Meta glasses.

[Priceline Ad Voice]

Bonjour, compadre.

[Travis]

It's the Priceline negotiator.

[Priceline Ad Voice]

How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget, the Priceline app, It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses, there's more. The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beach fronts and. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me up

[Guy Kawasaki]

to say that, you know, it's Guy's golden touch. And everything that I touch turns to gold is total. It's Guy's golden touch is whatever is gold, guy touches. Which is a very different philosophy. Yeah.

[Travis]

And one that's probably guaranteed to give better outcomes, given enough time to bat, you know?

[Guy Kawasaki]

Well, I mean, if. If you want to guarantee good outcomes, I tell you how we do it in Silicon Valley. So we throw a lot of shit up against the wall. One out of a hundred sticks, we go up to the wall, we paint the bullseye around what's stuck, and we declare victory. And we say, travis, I hit the bullseye. Travis, you can always hit the bullseye. If you paint the target after you see where the arrow is stuck. That's the Key.

[Travis]

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. With your. With your schedule these days, guy, what do you find that you enjoy the most out of all the things that you do? You're writing your podcasting, you're doing some speaking and interview people. What do you really like?

[Bill Perkins]

What.

[Travis]

What fires you up?

[Guy Kawasaki]

Being on your podcast, that's like, you know, this is it for 2026.

[Travis]

Done, done, and done. Yeah. Now we can rest the rest of the year.

[Guy Kawasaki]

Yeah, this is like, you know, I feel like Alyssa Liu right now. So I, I. You know, as. As I look back on my checkered past, I would say that I think I'm doing the best work of my career on my podcast. I really. Yeah, podcast is really, really. I was born and made for podcasting, so I think podcasting is the best work I've ever done. It's also the. Probably the least appreciated, which is a bitch, but, you know, and life goes on.

[Travis]

So that is. That is. You're preaching to the choir. You're preaching to the choir. On the. On the Remarkable People podcast, what are some of the conversations that you found to be most fascinating? A couple of the people who you just really enjoyed spending time with.

[Guy Kawasaki]

Oh, I mean, you know, it's hard to top speaking with Jane Goodall. Right. I mean, she's the most remarkable person I've ever met. So I had her on twice. And Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Mark. Margaret Atwood. I mean, you know, Tony Fauci. I don't know where you are in the political spectrum, but Tony Fauci was a great guest. Francis Collins, the guy who did the Human Genome Project. Christy Yamaguchi. I mean, I'm all over the map. It's. It's not like I only have tech people. I have remarkable people in any field.

[Travis]

Well, that's my favorite part about podcasting. I think it's probably the most underrated part about podcasting is that everybody thinks about it from the term in terms of audience size and how many subscribers do you have?

[Priceline Ad Voice]

What.

[Travis]

Listen, it's like. Doesn't really matter in terms of, like, the. The question of will I continue to do this is not at all predicated upon the volume of people who subscribe to the podcast, if that makes sense. It's. It's completely predicated upon conversations like this one, you know?

[Guy Kawasaki]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis]

The fact that you can.

[Guy Kawasaki]

And, you know, I. Well, you don't have to worry about this yet, Travis, but I am 71 and 52 times a year, I got to figure out another subject. Right? So one day it's, you Spinal injury. The next day it's vaccines. The next day it's creativity with Julia Cameron. The next day it's, you know, apes with Jane Goodall. So 52 times a year, I gotta learn something new. I think I am delaying dementia.

[Bill Perkins]

There's.

[Travis]

I mean, there's real. There's real data behind that, you know, don't want to let the brain atrophy, you know.

[John Levy]

Yeah.

[Bill Perkins]

Delaying.

[Guy Kawasaki]

I'm not saying preventing.

[Travis]

You mentioned. You mentioned before we hit the record button that the last. That about four or five years ago, you lost your hearing. You have cochlear implants in right now. And then made a joke about how that you lost your hearing from all the bad pitches that you've heard from founders in Silicon Valley over the last couple of decades.

[Guy Kawasaki]

The word I used is shitty, but. Yeah.

[Travis]

Excuse me. Yeah, shitty. Shitty pitches.

[John Levy]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And then that actually became one of the things that you're kind of really well known for online, which I actually used this exact thing to raise money for my first startup, which is your. Your 10 slide pitch deck. Where did that is. Was that idea directly born from just having to sit through another, like, 34 slide presentation?

[Guy Kawasaki]

Oh, God. Oh, my God. I mean, you know, for a while there, I was a venture capitalist and investor and. Holy. I had to listen through a lot of crap and, you know, but I. Travis, I got to tell you the funny story. So I came up with this 10, 20, 30 idea. I wrote the Art of the Start, which till this day is kind of the entrepreneur's manual for starting a tech company. And I can't tell you how many times, Travis, people came to me to make a pitch and they said, I love your book, guy. I read the Art of the Start. I believe in everything you say. And then they boot up PowerPoint and it's like fricking 60 slides, 10 point font, and they need two hours. I also, like. Did you not just tell me you read my book? Did you not just tell me that you observe everything I said? How the hell are you showing up with 60 slides? I just wrote down you should show up with 10 slides. Yeah. So needless to say, I don't invest in people who cannot read.

[Snapdragon Ad Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Snapdragon. Take the leash off your laptop with a processor that gives you long battery life. Work on the go. Jump between back to back calls. Stay locked in from morning to midnight. Get maximum performance even when unplugged. Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon. That's how go to Snapdragon. Com Laptops Snapdragon branded products are products of Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. And or its subsidiaries.