A (3:31)

Wow, okay. So you actually created like a business model around like the pickup artists type scene and then sort of transitioned it.

B (3:38)

I wouldn't call it a business model. I understood from that, based on my own teachings, how the subconscious mind and subconscious influence could be used to engineer decisions for sales. Because essentially, I don't think anyone who. And we're all selling. I don't think anyone is actually a salesperson. I think we're all decision service technicians. Because one of the unique things I teach is you're never selling a product or service or yourself, whatever that means, Travis, you're always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions. Remember that given that decisions are mostly made and the feelings are mostly generated on the subconscious or unconscious level, we best learn how to bypass all the rest of that stuff on the conscious level and create the following states. We need to get our prospects focused on us. Focus is the currency of any kind of sale. Whether it's seduction, whether it's negotiation, whether I don't care, whatever way you choose to make money. If you can't get focus, get it very quickly. You're screwed. I'm just going to say it now, Travis. How many times have you checked this? Be honest. In the last 24 hours. Scroll. Unless you're super disciplined.

A (4:53)

Probably more times than I should have. More times than I can count. Probably.

B (4:58)

This device has taken an attention span that we, most of us have an attention span of a minute to 90 seconds to be generous. Listen, I'm an old timer. I remember when YouTube first came along. You know how long the ads were on YouTube back in 2006? 90 seconds, 90 seconds and you couldn't click off. So we need to get a. We need to get focused. Number two, we need to get our prospects to trust themselves. My insight coming from outside of the sales community is that it's not enough that prospects trust you. No like. And trust is necessary, but it's no longer enough. Now we have to implant the suggestion that they can trust themselves. There's a lot of reasons why they don't trust themselves. Number one, an unfocused mind can't make a good decision. Number two, they have too many options. Listen, you may have the best sales system in the world, but your competition probably has the same thing. If it's off the shelf, there are a lot of good ones I'm not knocking. Sandler goes back a long way. Tony Robbins has got great stuff, but everyone else is doing it. So it becomes a foot race to reach your prospect. And foot races are exhausting. So we have to create those states where they trust themselves. And number three, you have to get them interested for their own reasons. You want to engineer them to convince themselves to buy. Travis, the best sales are the ones who the prospects convince themselves. So this is what I think selling is about. As batshit crazy as it may sound, selling is not just about implanting your suggestions into the prospect's subconscious mind where the decisions are made. It's about expanding their consciousness to include your ideas and new possibilities, new places they never thought they could go. Selling being about creating and engineering states of consciousness and expanding consciousness is completely nuts.

A (7:02)

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B (10:49)

But then I'm a little off the wall, as you can already tell, with all the talking I'm doing.

A (10:54)

You're on a podcast, Paul. I think you're supposed to be talking, so this is a safe space for you to be talking.

B (10:59)

Thank you.

A (11:00)

I give you my express permission to continue talking. Some good stuff. Yeah. On the, on the sale. And my background is heavy in sales as well as several years of door to door before jumping in the podcast space and online. Online business space. And that, that one piece that you said there, I think is probably one of the reasons why people sort of have a. A negative towards salespeople is that first off, a lot of salespeople are just really bad at what they do, but it's because they think that it is their job to persuade someone that they need something that they don't need, rather than it's their job to uncover the reasons why they do need this thing that actually does help them solve their problem. And I think there's a fine line between those two things. And that is, that line is probably created by do you actually believe that the product or service that you're selling is going to help this prospect solve their problem? Because if you brought up, it's not that great of a, you know, conversation ahead of you, but if you do, then it's more your job just to get them to believe that you believe it rather than it is your job to get them to believe it.

B (12:12)

You brought up a very interesting point, and I don't want to misquote you, but you said something along the lines of finding out the prospect's desires and whether they really need it or not. Something along those lines, correct?

A (12:26)

Yeah, something like that.

B (12:28)

Okay. That presupposes that the prospect, number one, knows on some level and number two, is in a state where they want to tell you or they feel comfortable telling you. They may not sure and they may feel stupid about not knowing. So you have to create a state of mind where they feel permission to be a Little bit confused. And so your job is to get them into a state of mind where they feel they have permission to create clarity by asking you the right questions. So this is a log gobbledygook. Let me give you a specific example. These are words I use called implied relationship words. On the subconscious level, they imply that you're already in relationship with your client. So I would say something like, before we begin our exploration together today, may I please invite you to do one thing? Will you please share the questions that naturally arise when a great decision is being made? Now, I'm doing a lot there in just a few words. First of all, I'm implanting the suggestion that we're already on the same side. I didn't say before I describe the benefits. I said before we share together, explore our invite. These are all words that imply relationship. And the most powerful word there, a deeply hypnotic word, is exploration. Now you think, Paul, what the hell are you talking about? Here's what I mean. First of all, explorations carry a positive charge. They appeal to the brain's desire for novelty. So we're touching on some neurobiology. The brain wants that dopamine. Our reward centers want to light up. But here's the more important part. For every exploration, there must be a leader. And for every leader there must be starts with the letter F. A follower. Exactly. Once they accept that suggestion, then on the unconscious level, they now view you not through the lens of someone who's in rapport with them, but someone who's leading them. They view themselves as followers. And followers don't just trust, they comply. So we go, we create, we go beyond rapport into the realm of compliance. This is what you really want to get. Rapport. I'm not going to say rapport is outdated, but rapport is, is secondary compared to getting compliance. Getting your clients to follow you and to trust you in themselves in almost a childlike way. That childlike part of the mind is there. You just have to learn how to activate it and do it without harming.

A (15:09)

Real quick. Sorry to interject on this. I want to point this out because I think it's a really good point to make. You. You mentioned rapport versus compliance, and I agree with that because the just saying the word rapport implies that the rapport can be built however you can possibly build it. Meaning that there's a lot of salespeople that start going on these tangents about the weather or about their favorite sports team, or about things that are completely irrelevant to your ability to competently be the authority in the situation, and it actually could be detrimental toward the sale because then you start feeling, you know, almost like feelings of like, friendship, connection that. That prohibit you from being able to overcome objections and like, move the conversation toward an actual decision at the. Rather than do the thing that you think that you're doing, which is building compliance, which is really the ultimate goal of what the rapport was built. It's just that you can't build rapport on these, you know, fairy tale, you know, paths that have nothing to do with your authority as the person who can help them solve their problem.

B (16:19)

And not only that, I'll add, on top of that, even the rapport techniques that used to work pretty well no longer do, because those techniques depend on the prospect having focus. And they don't. That's why, if you're listening to me, I only work with people who are already in the top 10, 20% of their field or in their game. They're doing really, really well and not. But their old stuff is no longer working. If you're experiencing that frustration, that confusion, what's going wrong here? This used to work really well. I'm only getting incremental gains or the needle is going and my team is burning out and I'm pushing them too hard. Or if you just are an individual. But I want to let you know it's not your fault. It's not only that the market has changed and the market may be saturated. That's. That's true. Maybe I don't know your field, ladies and gentlemen, but the more important thing is your prospect's consciousness has changed. Your prospect's consciousness is changed. If you take nothing away but that, and then what distills out of that understanding is you better learn to shape their consciousness in a new and different way. Does that make some sense?

A (17:29)

Yeah. Yeah. And so what. What are, what are the ways that you suggest doing that? If you know, obviously as a company or as a business, you might be able to do that through your marketing messaging, or you might be able to do that through your email sequences or your content or how you know, all the stuff that leads up to the time where the salesperson's on the call. What does a salesperson do who doesn't have any control over that stuff, who's just jumping on the call, talking to the prospect? How did they start creating that?

B (17:55)

Here's how you start. You start, first of all, you start with your own consciousness, your own state. I don't want people to be enthusiastic. Don't you want to Be interested in the sale, but invested in your skills and the breakfast, the bacon and eggs, the pig is invested, the chicken is interested. Second, quiet in your mind. If you have ratchet, a ratchet, a ratchet. There's only so much real estate and consciousness. I keep bringing up this word consciousness. I'm fixated on it. So you need to learn to quiet your mind. Stop the internal dialogue. What state do you want to be in? And then you need to be really, really, really outwardly focused on the prospects, on the prospect. State of mind. The second thing you want to do is to ask yourself, okay, based on what I already know and when I'm about to figure out, what states of consciousness do I want to create? First, remembering that you're a decision service technician, sales engineer. I don't mean the software sense. You have to ask yourself, how do you do that? How do you create those states of focus? So something like, hey, Bob, great talking to you today. Before we begin our exploration today together. Today of unpacking what it is we can do together, I don't know all the ways you might find a growing focus on what it is we'll be learning together, but as it's taking place, please just promise me one thing. Promise me you'll share the questions that naturally arise when a great decision is being made. Sounds like a lot, but what you're doing is creating those states of focus and that state of self trust. You notice that last phrase, a great decision's being made. Did I say who's making the great decision? Travis, you did not.

A (19:43)

You also did not say whether or not that decision would be to buy or not buy from you, correct?

B (19:49)

Correct. So the unconscious mind has.

A (19:52)

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B (20:20)

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A (20:26)

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B (20:30)

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B (20:34)

Hey, you weren't listening to me. I said Thunderbolts. The New Avengers is now streaming on Disney.

A (20:40)

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B (20:43)

That's cool. Then Marvel Studios Thunderbolts the New Avengers. Rated PG 13. Now streaming on. You guessed It Disney to go down, make the decision for itself. But because you're already creating that sense that you're on the same side and you're already creating those growing states of focus, it won't guarantee the sale. But what it's going to do is create the soil, the soil of suggestion through which all the other stuff you're going to do, those seeds are going to be planted. Much more likely you have to do that. So those are the first two things I'd start with. Then you begin your information gathering. But if you do that information gathering and you've seeded that soil that they see you is there leader, they feel comfortable trusting themselves and they want to open up, then it's simply a matter of being able to handle objections. I like to handle objections by breaking rapport, completely shocking the client into getting objection, amnesia. I'll give you an example. Have you ever heard this one in your sales career? I bet you out there, ladies and gentlemen, as you find yourself thinking, yeah, Paul's right. Listen to this one. I need more time to think it over. I know you've heard that one correct.

A (21:58)

Yep, yep.

B (21:59)

Standard responses that your prospect is expecting, the pattern they're expecting you to do is, well, what is it you need to think over? Or okay, here's my number. Give me a call. I want to shock them by breaking rapport, creating suggestibility. So I'll say, hey, I understand. Can I ask a question? Have you ever taken a long time to think something over and it still turned out to be a terrible decision? Now what is that? Doing that immediately is sending the brain going, wait, what I thought would save me from a mistake is now going to guarantee I do make a mistake that erases it completely. Then I redefine it. Maybe it's not about time, but about the clarity you need to recognize it's safe to move forward today. So please, just tell me what's on your heart, what's on your mind. Human to human, you won't offend me. If it's a hard note, just tell me what's on your mind. Yeah, so I've done a lot of. You can spot all the things I've done a lot in just a few sentences.

A (23:01)

Yeah, that, that one piece. There is one that I, that I used all the time, which is like, you can be honest with me, you're not going to offend me. I do this for a living. I do this all the time. I talk to people all the time. Because ultimately what they're saying most of the time when they Say I need to think about it is basically the answer is no, but I don't want to hurt your feelings. And then, and then the reason that the answer is no has nothing to do with whether or not they need to think about it. It's something else that they're not willing to tell you because you haven't, you know, made them comfortable enough to be able to tell you that thing. So I love that question, though that's not a question that I've heard before. That's a really good one to, to ask them if. Because it's not even necessarily that it's vilifying the decision to need more time to make the decision. It's basically just saying that, like that's irrelevant toward whether or not this is going to be a good decision. Like that is not a relevance.

B (23:46)

That's true. And it's also creating a state of suggestibility because people are pattern meaning making machines. When you lay down, ladies and gentlemen, when you lay down on the grass when you're 8, 9, maybe 6, 7 years old, and you looked at the clouds and you saw cars or you saw a giraffe or a puppy, they weren't really there. But your brain is a pattern making machine. When you interrupt people's patterns, they become very suggestible. And in a sense, you're doing exactly what a professional hypnotist would do. If you were to say, in a minute, I'm going to count backwards from five. When I do, you're going to become deeply confused. You'll even forget your own name. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. You can't do that, but you can use the same power through the power of language. Let me get a little bit fancy here if I could for a minute. So language structures consciousness, which shapes decisions, which drives behavior. States of consciousness, like joy, if you ask someone out when they're feeling happy and outgoing and joyous, you're more likely to get a yes. Consciousness shapes decisions. Decisions drive behavior. So I'm going to keep hammering it until I bore the crap out of people, or hopefully by saying it different ways. You begin to see the value, ladies and gentlemen, to the point where you think this I need to learn more. I'm going to keep hammering on that. Consciousness, consciousness. What stage of mind do you want them in?

A (25:14)

If you notice maybe at the beginning of a sales call or something like that, that your prospect might be in a state of consciousness that's not open to hearing any sort of suggestion or something similar, how do you typically handle that? Are you kind of going along the

B (25:28)

lines of what matter?

A (25:29)

We schedule another call or.

B (25:31)

Nope, nope. Sale delayed. Sale denied. No, no, I want to break the pattern. I'll pretend. Can they see me on this call or not?

A (25:40)

Well, let's say I think a lot of people are doing zoom calls these days, so let's assume yes.

B (25:44)

So I'll have a cup. I always have a cup with me, A Starbucks cup, but it's filled, it's got nothing in it, and I keep it out of sight. I'll go if I hear that. I'll go. Damn. Forgive me a minute. I just spilled coffee everywhere. That's going to totally interrupt their state. Like what? It's a pattern interrupt. I always keep it there in case that happens. So pattern interrupts make people completely suggestible. You have to be prepared for that kind of thing. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.

A (26:14)

So figure out a way to interrupt the pattern. That was sort of my. So, like, when.

B (26:18)

When I would.

A (26:19)

When I would do that, it was the let's reschedule this or let's jump on another call. The intention was never to actually reschedule it. It was more like that. It was more of a pattern interrupt to say that, like. Like, if we're gonna do this, I need your attention here. I can tell you're, like, looking over there. You're looking over there, you're texting while I'm talking to you. Like, you're not in a state to be able to make a decision right now. So basically, like, if not like the. You know that that was the intention behind it was basically just to say that, like, hey, if there's another time that would work better for you, which they, most of the time, of course, are going to be like, no, no, right now is good. Right now is good. Sorry, let me just put my phone away. And it usually, like, you know, redirected their attention back onto the. Onto the.

B (26:56)

Then you got. And you got it exactly correct. You know for yourself that this stuff works. Yeah.

A (27:04)

Paul, I appreciate you coming on, man. There's a. There's some. No matter how long you spend going down these rabbit holes, there's always something new to learn, always a new piece of information you never thought about. So I appreciate you sharing some of those perspectives with us. Where can people go to get more from what you're working on?

B (27:18)

Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, you've given me the most precious resource you have. Your time and your attention, your focus. So I want to give value back. I created something just for the audience of this podcast. It is my subconscious sewing domination system. So if you would like to break through that ceiling and get those 30% gains, two parts. One is the instant trust. Quick start training. It's about eight minutes long. A video that will teach you these words that sets you up to be the authority and the prospect to assume on the subconscious level. You either they are your followers and then my much larger thing I only give to my $25,000 clients. You can't buy it anywhere or find it. It's my subconscious sales conversion vault. These are all the language patterns I teach my 25 to $50,000 private clients. If you want this, go to sell with Suggestion Forward slash Travis with a capital T. That's so Suggestion Forward slash Travis.

A (28:22)

Perfect.

B (28:24)

Forward slash Travis with the capital T. Love it.

A (28:27)

Paul, thanks so much for coming on and being willing to share with with everybody what you're working on. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems with money in the bank. So let's start there. Podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace.