Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (2:35)

Yeah, man. You know, I think a lot like you, I, I got disenfranchised with the game of money because, you know, I got trapped in a system, right? I think it's the system that we all kind of grow up in. And you know, I went, went to school, got my degrees, did my thing, got my college, you know, job. I was selling medical equipment, hospital equipment all throughout the country and I was making good money. I was making really good money. But early on in that game and that grind. Yeah, yeah, I mean it is, it is a phenomenal job. And I did. It's not that I disliked my job, I disliked the freedom, and I'm going to use that because I didn't really have control over my life, right? I had to report, I had to show up, I had to hit quotas, I had to do all these things and I, I kind of had to do it not only for myself, but, you know, had a family, had kids, and I, I found myself making trade offs. And I'll be honest with you, Travis, in the beginning, those trade offs were kind of exciting, right? I mean, new promotion, new bonus potential, new opportunity, new territory, bigger territory, more time on the road, less time away from family or more time away from family. And you know, over time, as I, as I was climbing that corporate ladder, you know, I found myself making trade offs. And I kept telling myself, when I have enough money, I'll buy my life back. And it was this idea, this erroneous idea that one day I'm gonna have enough, a pile of money, wherever it is, and that'll buy my life back. And so that's kind of the path that I started on. I started max funding, 401ks, IRAs, broker, you name it, right? I was doing anything and Everything that seemed conventional, that seemed, you know, smart at the time. And I'll never forget 2008, Travis. That one was such a wake up call for me because I realized I had a goal of retiring early, right? I'm modeling the same path of all these people in front of me, and I'm grateful. I'd been out of college about five years. I had just crested about a hundred thousand dollars net worth. I had no idea what that meant. And I remember five years out of college, my network dropped to 28,000. And granted, I had time to make up for it. I understood that. But I was looking at people 20, 30 years ahead of me, right? These are the people that have made the trade offs are on the third marriage. They're overweight, they're out of shape, they're, they're not happy. They're waiting for one day. And I realized I'm doing the same thing these guys are doing. But I was somehow expecting a different outcome. And that opened me up, Travis, to realizing, if I don't have control over my money, how can I ever predict my outcome or even impact my outcome? So that's kind of what opened the door for this alternative investing idea for me.

Travis (Podcast Host) (4:59)

What was the first, like, glimpse into that? Like, it's, it's fairly simple advice to just say, like, go make.

Podcast Host (Travis) (5:07)

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Travis (Podcast Host) (5:22)

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Travis (Podcast Host) (7:18)

Take extra money, put the extra money into a ROA 401. Put it in the markets, let it, you know, set it and forget it and then be done. If you're coming from that, where you're. You're working corporate machines, spending all your time learning this, where do you pick up on alternative investments? Like how. How do you even start learning about that new field where there, there's almost infinite possibilities when it comes to putting money somewhere other than the S&P 500. Where, where did you start? What was the first indication that you were onto something?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (7:48)

It's a, it's the wild, wild west out there, man. I remember when I got into alternative investing, I realized this is way more crazy than additional stuff. But the, the gateway for me, right, and the gateway for so many people was Kiyosaki. Rich dad, poor Dad. I read that book and, you know, I had all of these suspicions in the back of my mind, right? How much do I need to retire? How much income is this going to give me? Why am I deferring my taxes? All of this stuff that was kind of stacking up in my brain. And Kiyosaki confirmed my, my disbelief of the system that I was in. And he gave me, he gave me an alternative view of money and success. And you know, Kiyosaki's talking about things like the rich don't work for money. The rich measure their success not with their net worth, but cash flow. Debt is actually money. So all of these things. But here's the reality, dude. I had no idea what to do with that. And it was the second book that I picked up. And I'm so grateful for this because you know, when you're, when your sight changes, when your vision changes, I guess when your perspective changes, what you see changes is really what it comes down to. Kiyosaki gave me a new perspective. And so I was looking for ways to act on this new perspective. And I came across a book. It was called Creating wealth now. It wasn't the title that that caught my attention, it was the subtitle. The subtitle of that book was using Allen's seven steps, you could retire in 10 years or less. And this book was written by a man named Robert Allen. He's actually the OG of real estate investing. He actually, he's the one who taught Kiyosaki. I didn't know this at the time, but in his book, it was the most stupid, simple, boring, monotonous method I'd ever thought or ever seen. And for the first time I saw something that I could do. It was this idea that I don't care where you make money, right? Make it however, whenever, however you want to do it. But it's not what you make, it's what you keep. And further than that, it's not just what you keep. It's how you turn assets into income independent of your time. Now, his whole idea was buy two single family homes every year for 10 years. So two homes in year one, two homes in year two, so on and so forth for 10 years straight. At the end of 10 years, you have 20 single family homes. Now, I was dumb enough to take this path, right? So I was naive enough, I was desperate enough, I wanted it enough, I wanted to control my life. And so I started down that path. I bought three homes. Now, I'll be honest with you, Travis, the first home that I bought, I walked around corporate.

Travis (Podcast Host) (9:58)

So sorry to interject, but real quick is you, are you still working that same corporate job while you're doing this?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (10:04)

Still working.

Travis (Podcast Host) (10:05)

Okay.

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (10:05)

Yep, still working, man. Still working my 60 hour days, right? And our 60 hour weeks. And that first house I bought, I kind of walked around the corporate office with my chest all puffed out. You know, I'm a real estate investor now. Thought I was pretty rad. Had a little bit of cash flow coming in and that was exciting. My second home, I started to have a little bit of panic and by my third home, I had a full blown panic attack. And this is, you know, three months, four months after I read this book, I have three homes and I realized I've got a major problem on my hands. Two things. Number one, for every home that I found, it needed to be rehabbed, it needed to be renovated, it needed to be made rent ready. That required hours. It required hours for me to find a home, to renovate a home. But after I did all that, I had to put a tenant in a home. And man, I tell you what, those guys, they call a lot. And every time I'd get a call from a tenant, I mean, if that person couldn't pay their rent, I'd just cry on the phone with them and say, hey, it's okay, I'll just guess I'll pay it for you, right? With something broke, I'd have to show up and figure out how to fix the sink. I don't know how to fix a sink. And, you know, I found myself after three properties. I had a part time job and I wasn't very.

Travis (Podcast Host) (11:04)

So much for passive income.

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (11:05)

Yeah, so much for passive income. And so I, I realized at this moment that maybe this whole thing is a sham. Maybe it's not even possible to be financially free. And for me, I'm so grateful, I'm so grateful for books. They've, they've kind of transformed the way whenever I find a problem, I'm looking for solutions, I'm looking for people who've solved the problem. I don't know why I picked up this book, but it was Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. It's probably thinking that I could just think my way out of this, which you can't. But I remember in that book he was, he shared a story of Henry Ford, right, the founder of Ford Motor Company. And Henry Ford at the time was being sued for, you know, or Henry Ford was suing the newspaper at the time because they were saying he was ignorant, he was stupid, he had no business running Ford Motor Company. And so he goes to court and, you know, person after person gets up and accuses him of being dumb. You know, they're asking him pretty technical questions, you know, how does an engine work? You know, all this stuff. And finally Henry Ford holds up his hand, okay, and he says, I have a row of electronic push buttons on my desk. And at any point in time I could push a button and summon a person who can answer any one of the stupid questions that you're answering me or asking me. And so all I Need is to put people around me. And this allows me to bring my talents to the marketplace. And I thought for the first time I need a row of electronic push buttons. So honestly, Travis, this is what got me into the game. And it was brand new at the time. It got me into the game of turnkey investing. There are people out there who's they wake up in the morning and their God given talents are, let's go find houses, let's go rehab them, let's renovate them, let's manage them. So grateful for those people because those people are not me. But I can pay them to do good work. But I can own an asset that goes up in value, that gives me tremendous tax advantages. And when I do it right, it is truly passive. That allowed me to go from being stuck at three properties to scaling over 17 and I walked away from a six figure career in the medical sales industry about five years later.

Travis (Podcast Host) (12:58)

Five years, okay, so five years you acquire the 20 properties. So you did in half the time that they, that they said to do it in. When you first started doing the turnkey stuff, was this through a particular company that offered this as a, as an offer structure? Did you sort of had to piece all the puzzle, the put all the pieces of the puzzle together yourself?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (13:15)

Piece it all together? My man. You know, I found a really good realtor who loved the deal. He would go out and find me properties. I found a really good handyman who was really good at fixing things, and I found a really good property manager and I started buying my properties in Arizona. It was just dumb luck for me at the time. I, it's not like this was smart, but in 2009 is when I started buying property. It was right after the crash of 08. My biggest regret today is I wish I would have bought all the property. Oh my gosh, I wish I would have bought them all. But man, I started buying property and for the first time ever, I was legit, legit getting income coming in without having to trade my time for it. And so, you know, once I saw that here, here's the dichotomy of money and I love the make money idea. I believe, Travis, that your best investment, no matter who's listening to this, it's not real estate. Real estate has a fixed return that fits inside of a box, right? And I could amp it up and get to the maximum that real estate can provide. But at the end of the day, every investment has a box of what it's going to deliver. The one thing that doesn't have a box is you. It's your ability to make money, to create value, to solve problems. And I figured out, look, it's not what you make, it's what you keep. So look, if I want to be financially free, I've got to make really good money. I've got to keep a decent portion of what I'm making and I've got to buy assets that deliver passive income to buy my time back. So I just started playing this game. Make money, keep money, turn it into cash flow, repeat the process. And I'll tell you what, I've worked with thousands of people over the years now to help them do the same thing. And entrepreneurs are the worst. We're the worst. We're really good at making money. We think it's our superpower and we think we're going to make all the money until we're, you know, one day we'll, we don't have to do it anymore. But I've talked to millionaires. I've talked to someone whose company was valued at a billion dollars and he was barely over broke. It's not what you make, it's what you keep. And if you're not careful, you will work until the day you die. Now, I do believe in the idea of working. I believe it gives me fulfillment, passion. I work harder today when I choose to work because I love what I do. But the reality of it is you owning your time gives you optionality in life. And that's really what financial freedom is all about.

Travis (Podcast Host) (15:15)

Explain a turnkey property to somebody who's listening if they never heard that term before.

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (15:22)

Generally speaking, there's a few ways to do this, but generally speaking, what a turnkey property is, is you buy a property that you can literally put a key in it, turn it and it turns on right, it starts generating income. So that's the idea. It's an asset in a box that is fully ready and ready to start giving you income. Day one. Now, there's various levels of turnkey. Today, there's various components. If it's a big old apartment complex, my favorite assets. Look, I want my life to be exciting. I want my life to be somewhat risky. I want my life to be dangerous and on the edge and, and I want my wealth and my money to be boring. So for me, I buy the most boring assets ever, ever, ever, ever. I just want boring assets to give me predictable wealth. And so I buy single family homes. They're the most in demand, most sought after types of property, the easiest to scale. And I Can partner in those. It's okay, I can partner in those, but my preference is I can own them directly. I can own them directly for myself. If I'm in a syndication, I don't really control the asset, right? The, the, the, the one who's producing the syndication controls the asset. So a single family home, whether it's built from the ground up or it's renovated, someone goes and finds these properties undervalue. And the reason they're undervalued is they need a lot of rehab and renovation. They then do the rehab either with my money or their own money. And then they put a tenant in there. Then they sell me the property, I own it. That's critically important. I want to own the assets. Once I own it, I either pay that person or a team that's very closely tied to that person to manage the property for me. And all I do is I let time make me wealthy. If single family homes are the most in demand form of real estate, I buy and hold. I let cash flow help regenerate my ability to buy my next one. And I just start compounding my cash flow until I have an empire of real estate.

Travis (Podcast Host) (17:08)

What would you do differently if you were starting over from scratch today? Obviously, like, because I know that there's going to be some people listen to this that are like, hey, good for you man, that's awesome. But also, you started buying in 2009, 2010 houses were $30,000 in some states. Now they're the same houses, $250,000 interest rates are sky high. You know, I can't cash flow on the, like, my cap rate is like sub 5, let alone like not even close to 10 or 12. Like you could get back then. What, what, what would you do differently? What would your advice be to somebody who has a lot of those objections?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (17:41)

Now start, start right now. We did, we did a thousand properties last year inside of our community. 1000 properties at the highest interest rates that we've experienced in the last 10 years. Here's what I know. Single family homes are always in demand. Think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Everyone needs a place to live. Everyone needs a place. And if you're moving up out of an apartment complex, you're trying to get a single family home. If you're downsizing from your big McMansion, you're trying to get a single family home. If you buy the right asset in the right area, it is guaranteed, it is guaranteed you will become wealthy. Now you can wait for the perfect conditions, but the reality Is the perfect conditions will never happen. I bought in 2009, but guess what was happening in 2009. Everyone was running from the real estate market. I was just blind luck. It was dumb, naive for me. I picked up the book and I started buying. I had no idea what I was doing. And over the last 10 years, you know what every single person tells me? I wish I would have bought more wit. I mean, who wishes they would have bought more, more real estate in 2020 when interest rates were zero? Right. I mean, all it takes is buying an asset and letting time make you wealthy. There's so many economic factors that are at play here. That's. Yeah, the conditions aren't perfect today. And that means not every property is going to be created equal. But there are still diamonds in the rough, there are still wonderful assets. And if you know how to do it, buy and hold and let time make you wealthy.

Travis (Podcast Host) (18:59)

That's always the thing that I go back to is like, depends on the deal, you know, like that's, that's really the, the only answer I give is like, is real estate still worth, can you, can you still make money? It's like, depends on the deal. Depends on the deal. Because sometimes the deal is bad. Yep. And sometimes the deal is good. And if you get into a good deal, then doesn't matter what's happening in the, then the broader, on a broader macroeconomic scale. It doesn't. Just doesn't matter because ultimately, like you said, real estate's just going to be worth More in 30 years from now than it is worth today. You see this happening like, you see people who are amazed by this with like, their parents, you know, it's like their parents bought a house in, you know, San Diego county in 1989 that they bought, paid $200,000 for, and now they're selling it for 1.8 million or something like that. And it's like a three bedroom with a thousand square feet and no backyard. You know what I mean? And then, and then it's like they look at that and go, well, the time has passed. It's like, no, no, no, no. Time has passed, but the time to buy has not passed. Because if you follow, if you follow just, just inflation as a base level, as a base number, and increase the value of the property that you're looking at right now, which might be a $450,000 property. Well, pencil that out the same amount of time that it took for your parents to go from 1989 to 2019. I mean, that's 30 years. Well, 30 years from now, 2056, you think that house is going to be worth anything close to $450,000? No, it's probably going to be two and a half million because inflation's going to happen. The dollar is going to continue to weaken over time. It's just going to happen like that. It's going to be worth way more money in the future than it is currently worth. And then you add in the tax advantages and you add in that you can cash flow in the meantime. It's more of just like a, it's like even if the property didn't cash flow that much, it's like you just, you're, you're looking for an excuse to get into the property because the equity appreciation is going to be so much and the, and the additional tax value that you gain in the meantime is going to be, is going to make it worth it in the short term as well.

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (21:05)

Travis, I couldn't have said it better myself. Look, there's no such thing as the real estate markets, right? Real estate has micro markets and yeah, the real estate market right now is, is tight. But there are micro markets right now that are exploding, that are booming. And if you think about this, like, what's the next San Diego? Right? I don't know how much higher the prices can go out there, but as long as there's demand, they will continue to go up. But many people are moving to states right now for affordability. That's the next San Diego buy in areas. I mean, one of the best ways to do your due diligence on real estate. Go to u haul.com find out where people are moving. And if you, if you're looking in a location that has great infrastructure, great jobs, good schools, good neighborhoods, my goodness, buy now and let time make you wealthy. And here's the biggest piece to wealth that I've found, Travis. Inflation. You mentioned that we live in a, we live in a world today where you are taxed on everything, everything from direct taxes or indirect taxes through monetary policy, which is inflation. And here's the reality that most people don't understand. They think taxes are just, you know, part of the way things are. And to a certain extent that's, that's true. But for most people, taxes work against them, right? For every step forward you take, you're not really earning 8% in the market because inflation is taking off 3 or 4% off the top. You're not really earning 8% of the market because you got to pay taxes on it. But if you flip where your money's at. Inflation and taxes will either make you wealthy or they will destroy you. And legit man. I mean when you buy single family homes, inflation and taxes are making me wealthy. I mean I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I own a whole bunch of single family homes. I've been renting them out and holding those things for 10, 15 years now. And I'm wealthy. That's all it is. I mean it's start now. Have a system. Put inflation and taxes behind you as a, as a tailwind rather than a headwind and let the game play go. Make money, keep the money that you make. Shift your, your, your savings not to tax deferred vehicles, but assets that generate tax free income for the rest of your life. The game gets so much easier if inflation and taxes are making you wealthy versus making it harder.

Travis (Podcast Host) (23:08)

How do you define a good deal now? 2026, you know somebody's listening to this. Even next year, 2027, whatever. In, in this, in this time period is, are you looking at, are you looking at cap rates? Are you looking at the, the total cost of a home? Are you like, I guess, what's the buy box?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (23:26)

Yeah, if I were in commercial, I'd be looking at cap rates. For me right now what I'm looking on is a cash on cash return primarily for a single family home. I want to understand, I want to understand how much cash I can get back. Having very, very realistic expectations of the house. So when I buy, we have a whole software for this. When I, when I buy the house, I put in all of my known expenses, right? My cost of financing, my property taxes, all of that. I put in all of my unknown but over a long enough period of time, you know, known expenses, vacancy and repair and I shift that up to 40%. I know that 40% of the total revenue I collect on that asset over a long enough period of time. I'll never see it. It might show up in my bank account today, but at some point it's going to a vacancy and repair. Once I put in my known and my unknown expense. Totally. I know it, I know it, I know it. And so once I understand that, then I can put real estate into that buy box and as long as I get a cash on cash return, that for me it used to be 10, man. But I'll be honest with you, it's really hard to hit 10 today. So I'm going from about 7 to 10. That's really my buy box. Okay. If I can get a 7 to 10% cash on cash return with very realistic expectations, then I know it's worth it to me because all I'm, all I'm determining in that matter is I'm going to be positive cash flow. Then behind the scenes, appreciation, tax advantages and leverage are working for me. And here's another reality that people misunderstand today. They are printing money every single day. And morally I disagree. I do not like what the, the Federal Reserve is doing. I completely disagree with it. And I can be a victim of this reality or I can use that system to my advantage.

Travis (Podcast Host) (24:59)

Yeah.

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (25:00)

And so the reality of it is, Travis, you can print money right now. I can print money right now. If I take an asset, a single family home, into a bank, they will tell me how much money can I give you. Right. And that it makes, it makes it to the point that, look, almost everything you need to become financially free is built into the system. You just have to stop looking at the system as a consumer and using debt as a consumer and start looking at the system as an investor. You have to stop waiting with your fingers crossed and giving your money away to markets and things you don't control. You have to take control over your money. And if you take control over your money and use leverage, here's the real key to success. It's you. It's your financial intelligence. Right? You can't be a passive, you know, non educated investor in real estate and expect to win. You've got to raise your financial intelligence, understand how the game is played, play the game to win. And then at that point, man, it becomes so easy. When I say financial freedom in 10 years or less, which is how I encourage people to measure their success. I don't want anyone to wait for 40 years and just hope we're going to do it in 10 years or less. That narrows our timeframe down to where anyone can do it, but it requires you to raise your financial intelligence to make it possible.

Travis (Podcast Host) (26:06)

Ryan, I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing a little bit about this, man. Where can people go to get more from you?

Ryan Lee (Guest, Founder of Wealth Outside Wall Street) (26:11)

Well, my man, it's been a tremendous honor. I told you, I read those two books to really get me going in my journey. Rich dad, Poor dad and Creating Wealth. And last year, well, several years now, both of those mentors of mine have been inside of my community actually helping people understand what, you know, I've now done and helped thousands of people do. And we actually wrote a book, wrote a book together. It's called, of course, retire in 10 years or less. It's unlock your passive income machine and secure tax free income for life. I'm super proud of this book. It is 100 a playbook and even though I don't believe in the idea of retirement, I believe many people are in pain today and my objective is to meet them where they're at, give them a different rule book around money and show them how to retire or buy their life back, retire from something that doesn't serve them and retire into a life of more purpose and meaning. So you can find it on Amazon for your listeners. We have a retirein10years.com book. Give them a whole bunch of freebies and goodies that come along with the book. But man, you'll have interviews by Robert Allen by Robert Kiyosaki as part of the book. We have a whole companion course. If you want a framework, if you want a playbook to turn active income into passive income, that's your, that's your.

Travis (Podcast Host) (27:12)

That'S your start retireintendyears.com book. If you want to go grab a copy of the book and get some of the additional bonuses that Ryan and his team had put into this. Ryan, I appreciate you taking the time. I do not take that for granted. Everybody else listening. Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got some money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you guys next time. Peace.

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