Make Money by Believing It's Possible (ft. John Gafford)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money — “Make Money by Believing It's Possible” (ft. John Gafford)
Host: Travis Chappell — Guest: John Gafford
Date: November 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on reframing beliefs about money, success, and systemic barriers — debating whether individual mindset or external circumstances play the pivotal role in one's financial outcomes. Host Travis Chappell, joined by a co-host and referencing insights from guest John Gafford (author of "Escaping the Drift"), explores the value and limitations of both personal responsibility and societal critique in the pursuit of wealth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Podcasting Energy and Personality Differences

• The hosts riff on how their energy shifts during marathon recording sessions and reflect on differing emotional responses (00:00–02:24).
  • Memorable exchange:
    • Eric (Co-host): “We either start enemies, become friends, or we start friends and become enemies.” (01:39)
    • Travis: "There is zero change in my feelings for you from the beginning of this to where we are now." (01:54)

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2. John Gafford’s Belief: “Every Problem is Solvable”

• Story: Gafford recounts a critical review of his book, describing how publishers called his advice “trite” for refusing to accept that the world’s “systematic problems” are insurmountable (03:06–06:34).
  • Quote:
    • John Gafford: “Every problem is solvable... As soon as I read that as an editorial piece… if they believe that, of course they hated my book.” (04:52)
  • Gafford embraces the negative review, clarifying that many successful people reject the victim mentality and instead act on their belief that outcomes are malleable.
  • Quote:
    • John Gafford: “I’ve heard story after story… people who chose not to buy into the fact that the system is stacked against them. That’s a cop out to me.” (06:22)

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3. The Mindset vs. Systemic Barriers Debate

• Travis’s take: Both factors matter, but focusing on barriers is rarely useful for personal outcomes (06:38–09:48).

  • Key Insight:
    • “Some people are born on the one yard line, some on the 99… but I’ve found it’s not great to spend time talking about that, because all it does is solidify in the minds of people… that they can’t do anything about it.” (07:08)
  • Practical Application: Instead of fixating on disadvantage, train your mind to seek reasons for possibility and proactive change.
  • Quote:
    • “You can have success, admiration, and respect, or you can have everybody feel sorry for you — but you can’t have both.” (09:11)

• Co-host’s Reflection: Acknowledges privilege (race and gender), but emphasizes both perspectives have partial truth (09:52–12:48).

  • Key Insight:
    • “How much of success is just playing by the rules of a broken system versus actually addressing the flaws, so the next people don’t have to fight and claw their way up?” (11:14)
  • They agree success can coexist with systemic critique, but most people must choose where to focus limited energy.

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4. Where To Start: Personal Responsibility or Societal Change?

• Travis: Advocates starting with the world you can control, especially early in your personal or financial journey (12:48–15:03).

  • Quote:
    • “It makes more sense to start where you are than to start pointing at all the other things that need to be fixed… One of them is inside your control, one is by definition outside.” (12:52)
  • Build personal abundance first; later, you can contribute to broader change or philanthropy.

• Co-host: People must decide what they want; not everyone is suited—or compelled—to fight the system, work within it, or withdraw from it (15:04–16:26).

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5. Wasting Energy on What You Cannot Control

• Travis: Argues most people spend too much attention on politics or big news that doesn't materially change their daily lives (16:27–20:18).
  • Quote:
    • “Far too many people expend far too much energy focused on things that are wildly out of their control, that have minimal impact on their day to day lives, rather than focusing that same energy in things that… will actually change your life over the next 10 or 20 years.” (16:34)
  • Raising awareness or engaging in activism is valid—for those who choose it as their mission. For most, redirecting energy to actionable, local change is more beneficial.

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6. Practical Tips: Curate Your Attention & Focus on Personal Growth

• Travis: Shares personal hacks to avoid the news cycle and outrage bait (20:18–23:43).
  • Unsubscribes from depressing news or rage-bait posts.
  • Only reacts to the most relevant and unavoidable news.
  • Quote:
    • “If you spend more of your time [on things within your control], you’ll start noticing that the majority of people are more similar to you than you think.” (18:22)
  • Encourages investing time with loved ones, working on business or health — more likely to produce progress than following negative headlines.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• John Gafford on critics:
  “That’s a cop out to me. When I read that, I loved it.” (06:32)

• Travis on belief and possibility:
  “You can have success and admiration and respect, or you can have everybody feel sorry for you, but you can’t have both.” (09:11)

• Co-host on privilege and the system:
  “If the system’s broken, how much of success is just playing by those rules versus actually working to fix it?” (11:14)

• Travis on starting points:
  “It makes more sense to start where you are than to point at all the things that need to be fixed.” (12:52)

• Travis on attention:
  “The vast majority of it is stuff that should not be focused on... 95%, 98% should not.” (20:18)

• Travis’s signoff:
  “Remember, money only solves your money problems, but it’s easier to solve the rest when you got money in the bank. So let’s start there.” (23:55)

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Memorable Moments

• The “entrepreneur attractiveness” mock contest jokingly floated as a podcast segment (03:35–03:47)
• The day walker/vampire analogy for straddling two worldviews in self-help (10:07–10:12)
• The pointed breakdown of uselessness in chronic political engagement for most people (16:26–20:18)
• Travis’s anecdote about using social media tools to actively curate away negativity (21:53–23:43)

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–02:24 — Banter on energy, podcast recording
• 03:06–06:34 — Gafford’s review story; “every problem is solvable” mindset
• 06:38–09:48 — Is mindset or circumstance more determinative of success?
• 09:52–12:48 — Co-hosting the privilege vs. practical tactics debate
• 12:48–16:26 — Where to place your initial focus: self or system
• 16:27–20:18 — Dangers & distractions of news and political outrage
• 20:18–23:43 — Actionable strategies: curating inputs, reclaiming attention
• 23:55 — Travis’s final call to action and signature money mindset reminder

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Tone:
Conversation is candid, occasionally humorous, and acknowledges nuance. Travis championing tangible steps, with both hosts keeping discussion grounded in self-empowerment and mindful skepticism toward hand-wringing about societal disadvantage.

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In Summary:
The episode challenges listeners to prioritize their own agency, acting within their locus of control rather than succumb to a victim mindset or endless outrage at systemic flaws. The message is both practical and motivational: work on filling your own cup first, then use your surplus to help fix the world if you choose. Believing more is possible is the essential first step to making—and enjoying—more money.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Travis Makes Money podcast presented by GoHighLevel.com for a free 30 day trial of the best all in one digital marketing software tool on the planet. Just go to gohighlevel.com travis. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. What's our mission to help you make more money? Today on the show, we're doing a little pod ception exercise because there's a clip from my other podcast with a business guy that I had on that we're going to talk a little bit about. Eric loves when I use the term pod ception, which is why he's cheering in the background. Yeah, what's up, Eric?

[B]

Tension is thick in the studio today. It is funny, it is fun the way the energy shifts when we record, when we batch record, because sometimes I feel like show to show. Well, sometimes I feel like we start whatever, whether we're in person or virtual, wherever. It's like. And we have to do a lot. So sometimes we start with like such high energy and then it's like in like, love for each other. At least I felt it. And then by like the last one, it's like, yeah, maybe I'll see you again sometime. And then other times we start kind of like, oh, God, we got to record. We got like eye dirt, you know, we're picking out. And then we're like, you know, we're like tired. It's like, you want to, you want a magic mind, bro. And then, and then we start, our wheels start spinning, you know, and then like, we're cranking full speed ahead. And then by the end of the last one, we're like, I don't want to stop right now. We have so much good stuff going and it's like. But there's never a constant throughout all of them. We either start enemies, become friends, or we start friends and become enemies.

[A]

I feel different in the fact, which speaks to our personality differences, that I don't feel that nearly as much as you do.

[B]

I feel like you hate me right now. Be honest with you.

[A]

There is zero change in my feelings for you from the beginning of this to where we are now. We've been recording for those listening probably two hours this morning now. So we're, we've, we've run through quite a bit. But yeah, I don't, I don't feel any of that. Almost. I feel the energy of, like, creating good stuff versus when we're just kind of talking and then it's not going anywhere. Like, right now. But I don't. But I don't feel like. I don't feel negative or positive energy toward you one way or another.

[B]

I think this is a great. I think this is great so far. See, I'm disgusted that you'd say that. All right, well, anyway. Well, we've got a clip I wanted you to watch. It's a clip of you and. And I started it after you finished your last meandering point. And we're getting into your guest, John Gafford, who's talking about his book Escaping the Drift, available now, wherever books are sold. And he's talking about this belief system he has. I have mixed feelings about this, but I want to hear your takes. I want to hear his takes. I want to hear my takes and put them in one big gushy melting pot of ideas. Okay, so here we go.

[C]

It's funny because I actually got a review on my book from Publishers Weekly.

[B]

Because also, John looks great. I don't know what he's doing, but he's. I feel like he's aging. He's doing, like, the Brian Johnson aging backwards thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you see him on the Apprentice.

[A]

He looks older than he does now.

[B]

Now, I didn't say older, but whatever. I don't know.

[C]

When you put your book.

[A]

For today's episode, that was the point of that cut.

[B]

For today's episode, we're going to take 10 entrepreneurs, and Travis is going to rate them in levels of attractiveness.

[A]

That would actually be hilarious.

[B]

We've got Bradley. We've got who? Who would be in the list?

[A]

Brad's up towards the top. He's a Brad. Brad's even looking. Who?

[B]

I don't think so. He fell off. Bradley fell off. He's been dethroned. All right, let's watch this through a publisher.

[C]

Like, there's the book buyers, reviewers, right? So Publishers Weekly is a company that reviews books. And I got a call from my publisher, and they said, okay. We got a review from Publishers Weekly. And I said, okay. And he goes, there's some good to it. When he said that, I was like. I was like, well, that's not good. So I read it through the first time, and it ends up, the last phrase of it is, his advice is trite is what it is. And I thought to myself, man, that's really bad. And I slept on it that night. I was actually kind of depressed because you put so much effort into something, and then a critic comes out and says that. Next day, I read it again, and the line before that Now, I love this bad review. I love it. I am tickled with it. And here's why. Because the line before that said that my advice is trite. And the reason they gave that was because I refuse to believe the myriad systematic problems that the world presents and I present. Every problem is solvable. When I read that, I thought to myself, anybody that believes that, that is an editorial belief that the world and the system and everything has stacked the deck against your success. As soon as I read that as an editorial piece from whoever wrote this, I thought to myself, if they believe that, of course they hated my book.

[A]

Right? Of course.

[D]

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[C]

Of course they did. Because, dude, just like you sitting here with my podcast, how many stories have you heard from people that have absolutely no business being near the success that they're about?

[B]

Right.

[C]

I got off a boat from Vietnam when I was 18 and couldn't speak the language and now I'm a real estate mogul.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, is that his story? Is that John's story? We should just cut that clip out of context and just have a. Have be John.

[A]

Just him saying Vietnam native. John Gafford.

[C]

I just, I've heard story after story after story that these people have no business because they. They chose not to buy into the fact that the system is stacked against them. Yeah, that's a cop out to me. When I read that, I loved it.

[B]

And that. Okay, I think that's a good place to stop for now.

[A]

Well, I. I'm curious now to hear what you're thinking about this because you said that you're not sure you agree.

[B]

Well, let's hear what you have to say first.

[A]

Well, I think there's layers to this, right? Because there is what is accurate and there is what is useful. And while it may be accurate to say that, that people are given certain circumstances that are easier to create success out of than other people are, which is unequivocal. Like, you can't argue that that's a fact. People, some people are born on the, you know, one yard line. Some people are born on the 30 yard line. Some people born at the 99 yard line and some people aren't even born in the stadium, you know, so there's, there's definitely, there's definitely, it's not even ground when, when you're born. But what I found is that it's not great, it's not a great use of time to constantly talk about that because all it does is solidify in the minds of the people that weren't born in the stadium that they can't do anything about it because the deck, that, the deck is just so stacked against them that, that you just have to accept your fate as reality and then spend the rest of your life pointing the finger and trying to get everybody else to give you free stuff because you deserve it because you weren't born with a silver spoon and all these other things. When I have seen like what he was saying time and time and time and time again with some of the most successful people I've ever talked to on the show, which is for those listening, if you didn't know, we're around episode 1500, something like that, I don't know, we have to actually count at some point. But I've talked to a lot of people and a lot of very successful people. And the majority of the people who have outside success are people who were not born in the stadium or they were born on the one yard line. Like they, they're not the people that were given the majority of the advantages in life. And I found that those people just the difference between them and others is they did, they just decided to believe that it wasn't true, that it didn't matter, that that wasn't going to be their story. And then you are training your mind to go look for all of the reasons why you can be successful instead of training your mind to look for all the reasons why you aren't successful. And like you can, you can have success and admiration and respect or you can have everybody feel sorry for you, but you can't have both. And I think some people find it a much easier path to just go play the path of the. I want everybody to feel sorry for me. And it genuinely hurts their belief and worldview when they see somebody write a book that says that anybody can be successful because in their mind they've already bought into the idea that they can't. So I just, I just don't find it, I don't find it very useful to talk about it all the time. Like a, a lack of, a complete lack of awareness is one thing, but if you have awareness around it beyond that, there's not much purpose to continue to stew on it in. At least from my perspective.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

No, you don't.

[B]

No, just kidding. No, I, no, I, I, I always, I feel like a, I always feel like a day walker. And, and a lot of these. A day walker is a vampire that can walk in the day.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Just so you know, for people that don't lore. No, I, I feel, I always feel weird with like. Self help stuff like this because, like, I always feel like I'm hearing like I'm, I have, my inner wolves are fighting with each other and like, there's things that I agree and disagree with and it's like, so it's like we, I think there's people who would watch this. I was thinking as I was watching, I was like, I know there's people that would go like, this is two privileged white dudes that have, you know, and, and rightly so, you know, on a lot of levels, like, there's, in terms of like being born white male, like, that is all pluses, you know, Like, I don't think anybody would argue that, like, that's helpful, but they would say like, okay, so this means none of this is accurate, which I don't think is true. But then on the other side, you know, I guess like, my, my thing is always like, how, how much of, if the system is broken, how much of success is dependent on just like, just playing by the rules of that broken system versus, like actually addressing like, hey, the system's broken, you know, like, and actually addressing like, okay, let's work on, let's work on pointing out the flaws in the system so like the next people don't have to do that fight and claw up from the mire, you know, to kind of. And so I guess that's, I guess that's my thing is like, I don't disagree. Like, I didn't bring that, I didn't bring the clip and go like, I thought this was stupid, you know. And like, here, here's because I agree. Well, like, I agree, you know, like, if you look at like the, the state of the country, you know, I go like, I'm not a fan of where it's at, but I also go, like, if we all do our part, you know, I saw that piece of me that goes like, if we all do our part and, and take care of our small little corner of the world, we can make everything better, you know, so it's like I have the optimism, I have the idea of like, okay, not everything is hopeless, but Also, there's just a lot of bad, overarching things like, you know, that have to be talked about and addressed. And I think it's. I don't think. I guess I'll put it this way. I don't think John's wrong, and I don't think the reviewer of his book is wrong. You know, And I guess it's like, how do you. How do we meet in the middle of those two things, if that makes sense.

[A]

My thing is that it makes more sense to me to start where you are than it does to start pointing at all the other things that need to be fixed because one of them is completely inside your control, and one of them is by definition, outside of your control. And it's not to say that that doesn't mean that you should try to fix that system or you should try to point it out, but it doesn't do you any good in the meantime. It's sort of like the conversation we're having earlier about, you know, the whole life insurance and the day trading and starting these side hustles that are, quote, unquote, passive income. It's like, if you're starting out, you should do none of those things. If you have a bunch of money, then maybe you can play around and do those things. And so I kind of look at. I look at the personal problems versus societal problems in a similar fashion. It's like, it's not. It's not. It's not as good of a use of my time to focus on things outside of my control than it is for me to focus on the things inside of my control, especially if I'm not at a point in my life where I have the luxury of taking a bunch of my time to waste on things that I don't have a ton of control over. So I would rather see most people take more personal responsibility and accountability for fixing their life personally. And then once you create some sort of abundance for yourself or for those you love or for your family, then it's more like, okay. And you see, that sort of arc happened for a lot of people where they do this thing, they make good money, then they spend their time helping in the community or giving back or being philanthropic. And it's, you know, that you. You can't. You can't give from an empty cup. So you have to. You have to be able to fill that cup first. And I don't find it helpful or useful to spend the majority of your time pointing out problems in the system when you don't have anything in your cup, if that makes sense. It's not going to be the thing that fills your cup because it's not going to be a single piece of legislation. It's not going to be a single law that's passed. It's not going to be a single election that changes the course of your life instantly, overnight. It's like none of that stuff's going to happen. It's going to be something that takes place over really generations. It's such a long term game to change the system. But there is stuff that you can do right now, today to make your life better and you can do that for free now. And that to me seems like a better use of your time in, in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's also a layer two I guess, of what you want, you know, out of life. Like there's people I like I using this example, it's like there's people who will fight and claw their way through the broken political system. You know, for example, I'll use that because I feel like that's an easy, there's an easy segmentation of different people. So it's like there's people who go, this is the law of the land or this is the way that the nation is running and how do I thrive in that? You know, and then you have people that go, okay, this is how it is. Everything's hopeless and so I'm just going to survive it, you know, and just for whatever that looks like. Then you have the people who go into, you know, politics. And I mean this in the positive sense, but people that go into these systems push for the legislation to change, throw their body on the train tracks of this really broken system and dedicate their life's work to make it incrementally better, a little, you know, a little bit more. But like, not everybody can do all of those things. So I guess it depends on which of those you want to put yourself into and dedicate your time, you know, dedicate your time to.

[A]

Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. Like it's like that, that political video that we put out a while back sitting in the garage. I think I reposted it on Tik Tok recently. There's something about how I don't get super emotionally charged by election results because I don't find it to be that much. And it always gets a bunch of, you know, haters in the comments. Yeah, yeah, but I, I've changed my view a little bit in, in that over the years because I, I, I have seen and somebody commented on that, on the one recently, it was like, well, I got fired from my jobs for not taking the vaccine because of the previous administration. So I disagree that it affected my personal life. And I was like, well, I mean, it's hard to argue with that. Like I, I understand that I live in the luxury of working for myself for the most part, so I could kind of create my own reality. And some people don't have that same ability. But my broader point is to say that far too many people expend far too much energy focused on things that are wildly out of their control, that have minimal impact on their day to day lives, rather than focusing that same energy in things that have a massive impact on their day to day life and the quality of their life and the outcome of what's going to happen over the next 10 years or 20 years. So I just think that the, the, the, the volume of time spent on things like that is mostly a waste of time and always seems to put you in a negative headspace. Whether it's consuming stuff of somebody that you like and it's firing you up about something or it's consuming stuff of someone that you hate and it's firing you up in the opposite way. It tends to spike cortisol levels, it tends to bring more stress, more anxiety, more depression, more loneliness. It just doesn't do much good. So unless you are involved in that world on a full time basis, or like you said, you've dedicated your life to some sort of philanthropic venture or whatever, then the majority of your time should not be spent worrying about all those other things. They should be spent focusing on the things that are within your control that do have the ability to impact your life today and next week and next month. And if you spend more of your time doing that, you'll also start noticing that the majority of people are more similar to you than you think that they are. Which is I think one of the broader problems of, of the, you know, political, political media sphere that we exist in that, that they want you to think that just because somebody votes the opposite of the aisle that you guys would hate each other. And it's like I have not found that to be the case. Like a bunch of people that I've met all over the political spectrum is just like, well, we didn't talk about any of that stuff. You know, like the majority of us just want what's best for us and our family. You know, like, we just, we, we want to live a good life. We Want to have good friends, we want to have a family, we want to spend time with those we love, we want to experience cool things. And we might have different ideas of how to get there, but the vast majority of us are on the same page. And when you spend your time focused on all these other things, I just find that it drains your energy, puts you in a negative head space and makes you, makes you not like people who you otherwise, otherwise would actually like, which I don't find any of those things helpful.

[B]

So when you're figuring out what gets the majority of your attention, you know, like, like when you see a headline, like we all do every day, we see somebody go like, oh my God, this is so up. Like, whatever it is, how do you determine how much space that occupies in your mind or, or like whether it's worth, you know, allowing yourself to feel a certain way or to feel engaged, to talk about it on a podcast or to start raising awareness about it or sharing about it, like, versus, you know, I'm going to put that out of my mind and focus on, you know, whatever I have to do today. You know that I would say, I.

[A]

Would say the vast majority of it is stuff that should not be focused on the like, Like a really high number, like 95%, 98% of like, it just should not. It doesn't, again, it doesn't do anything for you unless you are a newscaster or somebody who's in that world full time and that's your job. That's a little bit different. But for most of us, I just. The first time I ever started doing this actually was after, I think it was the four hour work week, if I remember right from Tim Ferriss, if it wasn't his book, it was a podcast of his. It came from Tim Ferriss, but he was using that as sort of a hack that he just shut off the news. He stopped watching the news and it's like, well, how do you know what's going on? It's like, if it's big enough news, you'll find out about it. You know what I mean? Like the, like the Charlie Kirk thing is a good example where it was like, I wasn't, I didn't find that on social. Somebody like three people texted me about. It was like, you see what happened? You see what happened? It's like, okay, well that demands attention. And some of those things are going to like, like a, like an election for the President of the United States. Like, you can't help but know what's going on in that world because it's talked about everywhere. So the massive things are going to get your attention regardless. But the 90% of everything that happens in between those things is just designed to draw you in to some political site to scroll so they can sell ad space. Once you realize that like, next time you see one of those, click into the actual link and go to their page and count how many advertisements are on that page. It's annoying, honestly. Like there's a pop up video that comes up, there's a banner on the bottom, there's ads on both sides of the text, you have to scroll. And then in between the scrolls, in the actual copy of the article, there's other ads that are there. It's just like this is their entire job. Their entire job is to rage, bait you into clicking a link so that you can, so that you go to their website so they can sell clicks to advertisers. Once you, once you realize the business operation, business machine behind that, at least for me, when I realized that, it was much easier for me just to like D Rank. So now every time I see a post like that, I literally click the little buttons on the, whatever platform I'm seeing it on and I, and I tell Facebook or I tell Instagram or whatever platform, I just say like, show me less of this. Um, so I try to curate my feed to like anytime I see something that, that gets me, you can feel it. You can feel your actual physical being change when something draws this visceral, visceral reaction out of you. So now it's become a trigger for me. Whenever that happens, I just click the little button, show me less of this. I don't want to see it, just get it out of my feed. Um, cause like I said, I'll stay informed on the things that I need to stay informed. But unless I want to run for city council or something, then I just don't think it's any of my business what happens because I don't have any control over what's going to happen besides a vote. So like election time. Cool. I'll, I'll study, I'll read a little bit. See, See, you know how to cast my vote in the best way for what I think should happen. But other than that, you don't have any control. So unless you're going to dedicate your life to it, then go do something else because it's probably a better use of your time regardless of what that thing is. Go for a walk, go to the gym, spend time with your kids, go to the, you know, work on the business, work on side hustle. All of those things have a much higher and way more positive impact on your life than getting sucked into rabbit holes on the Internet.

[B]

Well, if you like this episode, be sure not to click see less of this last episode. Well said, Travis. Closes out.

[A]

All right, for those listening, remember, money only solves your money problems, but it's easier to solve the rest of your problems when you got money in the bank. So let's start there. Here on the Travis Makes Money podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Catch you next time. Peace out.