TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Behavioral Scientist, Jon Levy

Summary

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Travis Makes Money: TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Behavioral Scientist, Jon Levy

Date: February 20, 2026
Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Jon Levy, Behavioral Scientist
Preview of episode on Travis Makes Friends

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Episode Overview

This episode features a sneak peek from Travis's main show, Travis Makes Friends, where he speaks with behavioral scientist Jon Levy. The conversation zooms in on the value of relationships—how connections, rather than lone effort or generic advice, are key to success and career growth. Jon Levy breaks down the nuances between types of social ties, shares his personal journey from struggling entrepreneur to world-class connector, and offers actionable advice (and hard truths) about how meaningful networks are built and maintained.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Loose & Dormant Ties

• (00:39–01:46)
  • LinkedIn studies confirm people overwhelmingly find jobs through "loose" or dormant ties (former classmates, old colleagues) rather than close friends.
  • Jon Levy: "The people you hang out with probably all know each other...if you want a job at a company and you don’t know people there, chances are your immediate circle doesn’t either. It’s the people you’re loosely connected to" (00:57).
  • Being a decent, genuine person leaves doors open with these contacts, who are generally happy to connect if approached respectfully.

2. Jon Levy’s Personal Turning Point

• (01:49–02:53)
  • Jon recounts his struggles: "I was overweight, broke, underemployed...setting an alarm every day at 6am and then hitting snooze...Why can’t I get my life in order?" (01:49).
  • Despite being smart and hardworking, he couldn't break the cycle until he started learning what drives influential people to connect.
  • He spent a year modeling these behaviors and finally began to build meaningful, high-value relationships.

3. How (Not) to Approach Successful People

• (02:53–05:34)
  • Don’t send generic requests like “can I pick your brain over coffee?”
    • Jon Levy: “If somebody calls you up and says, hey Travis, you’ve been really successful, can I take you out for coffee and pick your brain?...it’s weird.” (03:18)
  • Travis Chappell: “Picking my brain does not sound fun for either one...frankly, if I’m going to let somebody pick my brain, it’s going to be my six-year-old son.” (04:09)
  • Successful people aren’t opposed to helping, but are very conscious of wasted time; you have to show you’re serious and will implement their advice.

4. Actions Speak Louder Than Questions

• (06:32–08:52)
  • Most people who reach out for advice never actually follow through.
    • Travis: “He said, you know, something I appreciate about you is that you actually, like, do the things that I suggest that you do...do you know how many people...actually do the things I tell them? ...Zero.” (08:15–08:42)
  • If you want continued engagement from successful people, act on their advice and demonstrate the results.

5. Respecting the Knowledge & Effort Already Shared

• (07:04–07:41)
  • Don’t ask for time if you haven’t read available books or consumed free content.
    • Jon Levy: “If you’re going to ask for my knowledge and you haven’t read my book or listened to your podcast...are you kidding me?...I make nothing off of my books...if I went to all that effort, read it, absorb it, and then let’s have a conversation.” (07:06)

6. Understanding Social Pressures on Influential People

• (08:52–10:27)
  • Influential people operate under five primary social pressures, encapsulated by Jon’s acronym “STEAM”:
    1. Social clout: People want the credibility of being seen with them.
    2. Time: They want access to the influencer’s expertise and attention.
    3. Expertise: Unique knowledge only the influencer can provide.
    4. Access: Connections and doors only they can open.
    5. Money: Donations, investments, business opportunities.
  • As a result, successful people have layers of protection. Many more want these resources than can be satisfied.
    • Jon Levy: “Those five things mean that they have to have layer after layer of protection up in order to stop people from getting it. Because there are more people who want it than the resources that they have.” (10:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jon Levy, on asking for coffee meetings:
  “Don’t offer to buy somebody a cup of coffee. If they could afford to buy the coffee shop...understand the scale.” (06:22)
• Travis Chappell, on following through:
  “Picking my brain does not sound fun for either one...if I’m going to let somebody pick my brain, it’s going to be my six-year-old son.” (04:09)
• Jon Levy, on consuming existing knowledge:
  “If you’re going to ask for my knowledge and you haven’t read my book...are you kidding me?...I make nothing off of my books.” (07:06)
• Anecdote, Travis on advice:
  “It’s not difficult to be an outlier because most people just will not do what they say they will do and or will not do what is suggested they should do.” (08:42)
• Jon Levy, on social pressures:
  “They have to have layer after layer of protection up...because there are more people who want it than the resources that they have.” (10:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:39 – LinkedIn study and power of dormant ties
• 01:49 – Jon Levy’s personal turning point
• 02:53 – How not to approach successful people
• 04:09 – “Pick your brain” faux pas explained
• 07:06 – Consume existing resources before asking for time
• 08:15 – Following through on advice makes you an outlier
• 08:52 – The 5 major social pressures (“STEAM”) on influential people
• 10:19 – Why influential people must protect their time and resources

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Tone & Language

• Candid, direct, and friendly, with both host and guest sharing personal experiences and hard-earned lessons.
• Practical and actionable, focused on helping listeners stand out and build genuine professional relationships.

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For the full deep dive—including actionable steps and more stories—listen to the full episode on Travis Makes Friends.

Transcript

[A]

What's up, moneymakers? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. Today I'm giving you a sneak peek of this week's episode of my main show, Travis Makes Friends, a podcast all about the most valuable asset that we have in our lives, our relationships. So whether we're talking about your network, your marriage, your friendships, or even your relationship with yourself, these conversations are designed to help you grow, connect and level

[B]

up in all areas.

[A]

I've sat down in person with everyone from world class athletes and entertainers to bestselling authors, entrepreneurs, and even former presidents. And you're going to love the snippet from this week's episode. So take a listen and if you're feeling it, go check out the full conversation over on Travis Makes Friends. Let's get into it.

[B]

Have you done, have you done much thinking about, like, dormant ties versus weak ties versus strong ties or seen any data as it relates to those things? And when it comes to success and

[C]

careers or professionalism, the most famous study was done on LinkedIn. It was probably like 15 years ago or maybe 10 years ago. And that one asked, how do people find jobs? And overwhelmingly what they found was that people find jobs through loose ties, or what you'd probably call dormant ties, which are people that you maybe went to college with or you worked in the same office 10 years ago, but you haven't really stayed in touch, but you're connected. So there's familiarity. And the reason for that is pretty simple. The people you hang out with probably all know each other. A lot of them are probably in the same industry, have the same contact, same knowledge and same access. So if you suddenly want to go work at a company and you don't know people there, chances are the people you hang out with the most don't either. Sure, it's the people who you're loosely connected to. And if you've been a decent person to people, then, yeah, overwhelmingly they're happy to hear from you and they're generally happy to make connections for you.

[B]

What brought you down this rabbit hole?

[C]

I was overweight, broke, underemployed, and I was like, I was literally setting an alarm every day at 6am and then hitting snooze so many times and being like, why can't I get my life in order? Why can't I make money? Why can't I figure this out? And I tried. You know, I'd read every book and I'd be like, yeah, habits and whatever it is, but none of it seemed to really stick. I thought, you know, I'M a smart guy, I'm willing to work hard. What's wrong with me? And so I spent a year trying to model the behavior and understand what would cause really important and influential people to connect with me. And I ended up discovering kind of this model and then applying it and making really profound relationships.

[B]

How old were you when you had this sort of discovery?

[C]

Like 29 or so? 30.

[B]

And what type of, like what type of career path were you on at that time?

[C]

I was, I'd done a bunch of startups and I. None of them really hit okay. And so I was doing like freelance work or consulting work, but nothing was,

[B]

you know, for a specific modality.

[C]

Oh, it was like digital strategy type stuff. Okay. But it wasn't any breakaway success. Yeah, this would have been. So I let me think. 30. I would have been 2010. Ish. And so I, what I ended up doing was I asked all my friends who are connected to influential people if I could interview or connect with them and kind of understand their behaviors. And what we ended up discovering was that there's kind of five major social pressures that they have that were really different than my life. And I didn't understand that. Right. And I'll give you a simple example. If somebody calls you up and says, hey Travis, you've been really successful, can I take you out for coffee and pick your brain? Like, the answer is I feel like family have cozy. It's weird.

[B]

I literally just had this conversation this past week on somebody else's show because asked me something about like, how do you get in touch with people or

[A]

what do you say?

[B]

And I was like, well, I'll tell you what not to say. Yeah, that was the literal cup. Cup of coffee. Virtual cup of coffee. Pick your brain. I was like, don't ever say these are in the don't list. Oh yeah, there's a, there's a bunch of different options in the do list. These ones are absolutely in the don't list because yeah, I tell people all the time, man, like picking my brain does not sound fun for either one.

[C]

Painful.

[B]

Yeah, it doesn't sound like a good time. And frankly, if I'm going to let somebody pick my brain, it's going to be my six year old son.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I would rather take my free time to hang out with him than like go to a random coffee shop across town to 100 to do free coaching essentially with no guarantee of you actually doing the work. Like I don't even know if it's going to be a waste of time. Or a fruitful conversation. It's not that I'm opposed to helping somebody.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's that I'm opposed to wasting my time. And, and somebody reaching out cold has not proven that there's somebody who's. This is going to sound terrible, but worth spending the time with. Like, they're, they're. They have not proven that it's like that. That they're somebody who's going to actually take the things that I implement them. Because if I could guarantee that I might actually take the time to do it. Because you. I tell people. Tell people that as well. Successful people want to give back. They want to be helpful. We. I think we have this idea and, and culture sort of puts out this concept that rich people got rich or because they just screw everybody over all the time. And in my experience, it's actually been quite the opposite. There's some of the most generous and caring people that I know. And of course there's some bad ones.

[C]

Of course.

[B]

Like, there's bad poor people. You know what I mean? But. But there's also some really great generous people. And that's how they got rich. You know, generous and giving and learning how to add value and give back and things like that. So they want to help. It's just that they're not gonna. They're not gonna waste their time. So you have to figure out how to give, vote, give a. Put across the idea that I am not somebody who's going to sit here and waste your time.

[C]

One of the things that I love to point out is don't offer to buy somebody a cup of coffee.

[D]

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[E]

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[C]

If they could afford to buy the coffee shop like it's. You have to understand the scale. And I know you're young and you. This isn't your world.

[B]

Yeah. You're eager. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But like, don't confuse those things. The Other thing is that you're. I think you're absolutely right. Nobody implements, like, nobody. And so it's super frustrating and it's disheartening when you're on the 30th conversation or 50th conversation and you keep seeing that, like, nothing you're doing actually has an impact.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Then, yeah. And people are like, no, no, this one's different. No, it isn't. Unless you actually show that you can have a track record of executing.

[B]

It's like, okay, we'll prove it, and then show me the results and then I'm happy to jump back on another call or something. Something like that.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Friend. I was out with a friend a couple nights ago.

[C]

Oh. And the other thing, especially for you. Yeah. Is like, if you're going to ask for my knowledge and you haven't read my book or listened to your podcast. Yeah. Then. Are you kidding me?

[B]

Right.

[C]

I have put in all this effort to consolidate this knowledge to help you, because I will tell you this much. As an author, I make nothing off of my books. Right. I make my money off of speaking and training and working with large companies. If I went to all that effort, read it, absorb it, and then let's have a conversation.

[B]

100%.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I put out 1500 podcast episodes. Now, there's no shortage of information from. Directly from my brain. If you want some of the information, ask ChatGPT.

[C]

What would John Levy or Travis say about this? There is so much material that we produced.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Now, I was out with a friend a couple nights ago, and we were having drinks, and he's a successful guy, and there's a lot of people that want a lot of his time, and we're just having some drinks. And he said. He said, you know, something I appreciate about you is that you actually, like, do the things that I suggest that you do.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is which, you know, was coming up when we're just talking about this, because it was like this, probably why he actually likes to spend some time with me, because I'm not just, like, sitting there asking for opinions and advice that I'm not willing to take action on. And he said, do you know how many people I talk to that, like, don't come through this, like, paid program or aren't part of my coaching or whatever, who actually do the things I tell them? And I was like, I don't know, a few. He was like, zero.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Zero.

[B]

So it's not difficult to be an outlier because most people just will not do what they say they will do and or will not do, what is suggested they should do.

[C]

Yeah. So here's what's really interesting. Now, if we actually want to connect, to get back to that topic, if we actually want to connect, one of the things that is important to realize is the people that you want to connect with have different social pressures than you, right? So if you want to connect with somebody who is really junior in their career, they got plenty of time. Nobody's after them, they're happy to talk to you. But once you get to the point that you have, let's say, industry influence, right? You have an impact on an industry through your thought leadership, your position, your previous success, the kind of people you want to surround you to be your brain trust, whatever you want to call it. They have five major social pressures. The first is, and I call it steam. They want your social clout because hanging out with you gives them street cred, right? So if you're constantly hanging out with the CEO of such and such company, then people like, oh, that that person must be up to something. Why do they know the big boss so and so forth. The second is they want your time for whatever reason, right? Your expertise, because you have, if when you've gotten to that level, you've developed some knowledge that they want your access because you can get into places or get to things that they just cannot. And they want your money either donations, investments, contracts, whatever it is. And those five things means that they have to have layer after layer of protection up in order to stop people from getting it. Because there are more people who want it than the resources that they have.

[B]

That is wildly true.