Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money
Episode: TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Dave Berke and Michelle "Mace" Curran
Host: Travis Chappell
Guests: Dave Berke & Michelle “Mace” Curran
Release Date: April 6, 2026
Episode Overview
In this preview episode, Travis Chappell offers listeners a glimpse into a forthcoming conversation from his show "Travis Makes Friends", focusing on the power and challenges of building relationships—both personally and professionally—after military service. Travis sits down with Dave Berke (Marine Corps veteran, leadership consultant) and Michelle “Mace” Curran (former Thunderbirds pilot, keynote speaker, author) to discuss transitioning from elite military careers to impactful civilian roles, finding new purpose, and the constant work of making and maintaining meaningful friendships.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Writing Books After Military Service
- Process & Challenges:
- Mace describes her three-year book-writing journey, teaming up with a collaborative writer. She compares the process to therapy, providing self-insight she hadn’t realized before.
- Mace: "I would tell her a story and she'd be like, okay. And then like, what did that teach you? And I'm like, I've never really thought about that." [01:33]
- Travis highlights the dual skills of having expertise and being able to distill lessons for others.
- Travis: "It's one thing to be expert at what you do, but also being able to distill truths and lessons and be able to turn around and teach it to somebody in a digestible, simplified way is its own skill set." [02:14]
- Mace describes her three-year book-writing journey, teaming up with a collaborative writer. She compares the process to therapy, providing self-insight she hadn’t realized before.
2. Transitioning to Civilian Life & Finding New Passions
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Impact Through Keynotes & Speaking:
- Mace explains the tangible and rewarding nature of keynote speaking, especially the personal connection and follow-up stories from audience members.
- Mace: "After keynotes... the stuff people will come up and tell you... they're just so open... Sometimes months or years later... Because of that, I went and did this with it and this is how it changed my life." [03:37]
- She notes her introverted nature but shares how she now thrives off audience energy, though she needs time to recharge afterward.
- Mace explains the tangible and rewarding nature of keynote speaking, especially the personal connection and follow-up stories from audience members.
-
Teaching Leadership:
- Dave discusses the value of teaching leadership as a learnable skill and the power in witnessing someone realize their own growth and abilities.
- Dave: "A lot of people look at leadership like an intangible thing or something that just happens naturally. And like, no, it is literally the same as any other skill that you can learn." [04:54]
- He doesn’t do many keynotes but focuses on deliberate, curriculum-based training, and finds fulfillment in seeing the real-world impact on clients.
- Dave discusses the value of teaching leadership as a learnable skill and the power in witnessing someone realize their own growth and abilities.
3. Team Culture & Camaraderie Post-Military
- Missing the Elite Team Dynamic:
- Mace shares how hard it is to replicate the camaraderie and shared humor of military life in the civilian world.
- Mace: "It just forges these friendships that I think are almost impossible to recreate in the civilian world." [11:53]
- Dave reflects on building the Echelon Front team from its beginnings, feeling fortunate to retain those connections—“getting the band back together”.
- Mace shares how hard it is to replicate the camaraderie and shared humor of military life in the civilian world.
4. Navigating Identity & Inclusion
- Being a Woman in a Male-Dominated Field:
- Mace acknowledges overthinking her place among the "bros" at the start of her career, but as her skills and confidence grew, fitting in became more natural.
- Mace: "As I found my confidence in the career field and my skill set got better and I just moved up... then it felt so much easier. But at first it was. It was challenging." [12:25]
- Mace acknowledges overthinking her place among the "bros" at the start of her career, but as her skills and confidence grew, fitting in became more natural.
5. Friendship & Social Connection After Service
-
Intentional Friendship Building:
- Mace admits to struggling with being proactive about making friends post-military—a stark change from the built-in friendships of her previous work. She jokes about starting a podcast called "Mace Makes Friends".
- Mace: "I've realized that you have to be so much more intentional and put effort in for sure... me like being the one to reach out to people and make social plans is not something I naturally gravitate towards." [13:22]
- Travis notes that having a podcast is a great way to meet and spend time with interesting people.
- Mace admits to struggling with being proactive about making friends post-military—a stark change from the built-in friendships of her previous work. She jokes about starting a podcast called "Mace Makes Friends".
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Friendship in Civilian Life:
- Dave’s current social life is centered around family and the local community (many with no military background), noting the contrast to military-connected friendships.
- Dave: "All of our community friends are our kids, friends, parents, and there is like nobody that has any military experience... I have this close enough connection [to military circles]... but you can't replicate a fighter ready room." [15:17-15:34]
- Both agree that while the unique military bonds are irreplaceable, civilian life brings its own forms of fulfillment.
- Dave’s current social life is centered around family and the local community (many with no military background), noting the contrast to military-connected friendships.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
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Mace, on self-discovery through writing:
"I feel like I learned so much about my career, like, insight, being 2020, just digging into everything and being like, wow, that actually really influenced this later experience that I had." [01:30] -
Dave, on teaching leadership:
"There’s mechanics of doing it and you got to teach that... There’s a lot of power in that. Know that you’re helping someone make their life better by taking that lesson and they can use it." [05:07] -
Mace, on keynote speaking & impact:
"There's like nothing I would rather do." [04:01] -
Dave, on post-military friendship:
"In some sense like kind of got the band back together... things that it's hard to replicate, really hard to appreciate if you didn't do it." [16:12] -
Travis, on using a podcast to connect:
“It works for some reason when you... decide to have a microphone in front of you, people like you guys spending time with me.” [13:04]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:26] – Book writing as therapy and self-insight (Mace)
- [02:14] – Distilling expertise into teachable lessons (Travis)
- [03:36] – Rewards and power of keynote speaking (Mace)
- [04:51] – Leadership as a learnable skill (Dave)
- [06:17] – Missing team camaraderie post-military (Mace)
- [10:36] – Building and sustaining Echelon Front’s culture (Dave)
- [11:17] – Do you miss flying? (Travis to Mace)
- [12:24] – Challenges of being a woman in a male environment (Mace)
- [13:02] – Making friends intentionally; podcasting as a strategy (Mace & Travis)
- [14:29] – Work friends vs. civilian friends (Dave)
- [16:12] – The unique bond of military friendship and finding fulfillment post-service (Dave)
Conclusion
This preview episode is rich with insights on self-growth, intentional leadership, and the ongoing challenge and value of forging meaningful relationships after leaving high-performance careers. Both Mace and Dave offer reflections that will resonate with anyone navigating personal transitions, the search for purpose, or the pursuit of authentic friendships.
For more, check out the full conversation on "Travis Makes Friends."