TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Jon Levy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money – TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Jon Levy

Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Jon Levy (Behavioral Scientist & Event Host)
Date: February 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this preview episode, Travis Chappell shares a captivating snippet from his other show, "Travis Makes Friends," featuring behavioral scientist and social connection expert Jon Levy. The central theme explores the art and science of relationship-building—how to create meaningful, memorable connections with influential individuals, and why “making friends” is both more powerful and more genuine than simply “networking.” Jon Levy sheds light on his unique approach to curated dining experiences and the psychological mechanics behind building authentic relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Four Characteristics for Forming Powerful Connections

Jon Levy outlines the essential traits needed to break through to influential people and cultivate standout relationships.

• Novelty:

  • Influential people have seen it all—they crave something new and memorable.
  • The brain’s “novelty center” (SNVTA) is activated by new experiences, driving curiosity and memory formation.
  • Jon Levy [01:09]:

    “…whatever you approach them with has to stand out as new or different. There’s a section of the brain called the SNVTA… it’s the major novelty center. When you trigger it, it causes a desire to explore and understand. And… it actually causes the areas of the brain having to do with creating new memories to activate.”

• Reality of Influence:

  • Contrary to popular belief, influential people rarely spend time with other power players; they’re surrounded by staff/family most days.
  • Jon Levy [02:41]:

    “That’s what everybody thinks. Not at all. Almost never. They mostly spend their time with their admins, maybe their staff... Occasionally... they get to go [where] there are other fancy people.”

• Generosity:

  • High-profile individuals are used to being asked for favors. Generosity, without expectation, disarms defensiveness.
  • Jon Levy [03:12]:

    “If you can give them more than they’re expecting or more than they’re investing, then the defenses come down.”

• Awe:

  • The rarest and most desirable emotional state. Creating awe—perspective-shifting moments—makes connections unforgettable.
  • Jon Levy [04:26]:

    “But there’s one [emotion] that’s incredibly rare, and it is awe... It's perspective shifting... If you can trigger those, everybody will want to connect with you.”

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Jon Levy’s Signature "Secret Dinners"

Levy describes how he engineered high-impact experiences that brought together world-class talent on a shoestring budget.

• Format and Evolution:

  • Guests weren’t allowed to share what they did (nor last names) before dinner.
  • Everyone cooked a (purposely bad) meal together, leading to unique bonding.
  • Afterwards, the guests would “reveal” themselves—many turned out to be prestigious artists, scientists, or athletes.
  • The first dinners started with “interesting people I knew,” not celebrities.
  • Jon Levy [05:46]:

    “The first dinner was like, interesting people I knew, and it was an experiment. I was so broke… I paypaled my friend money so I could charge it to my credit card... I had no idea what I was doing, but I kept doing it.”

• Scaling and Access:

  • Used cold outreach and Upwork researchers to contact notable individuals—most were surprisingly accessible.
  • Attendance required mass invitations due to the rarity of RSVPs from busy, high-status individuals.
  • Jon Levy [07:10]:

    “Every Nobel laureate is… an academic, which means their email address is… accessible. And so I hired a bunch of people on Upwork, said find me their contact info, and we just started cold emailing...”

  • The odds: Inviting 220 people to get 12 guests, now closer to 500+ for a similar turnout due to address changes and spam filters.
  • Jon Levy [08:36]:

    “Now it’s closer to about 500… the reason is threefold… post-pandemic job switches, spam filters, and because high-profile people get so many invites…”

• Funding the Operation:

  • Early dinners were self-funded by Jon at minimal cost; he bought cheap ingredients and even poured discount vodka into Grey Goose bottles for optics.
  • Jon Levy [09:56]:

    “I was spending something like $10 a person… I’d get like the cheap Georgie vodka… pour it into a Grey Goose bottle… I was 30 years old and had no money.”

• Monetizing the Concept:

  • Dinners led to speaking gigs, workshops, and consulting on “how to connect”—Brands and individuals wanted to learn his methods.
  • Strategic inclusion of journalists gave him a platform once he had a story to share.
  • Jon Levy [13:36]:

    “I’d make sure that every dinner I’d have a high profile journalist from a different outlet so… when I did have that story to tell, I could just reach out…”

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The Power of Perception & Authenticity

• Attention > Stealth:

  • Jon originally aimed for an “underground” mystique but found that publicity brought more opportunities and value.
  • Jon Levy [13:54]:

    “The New York Times approached me and I initially said no because I thought it would be cooler to be underground. Boy, was I wrong. It was way cooler to get attention.”

• Illusion of Wealth:

  • Perception of his dinners led others to assume Jon was wealthy, though he started with almost nothing.
  • Jon Levy [14:33]:

    “Somebody came up to my friend and said, ‘Hey, you know that billionaire that hosts all those parties?’... Wow, perception.”

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Why “Making Friends” Beats Networking

Both Travis and Jon underscore the futility and superficiality of conventional networking, advocating for authentic friendships instead.

• People Hate Networking:

  • Research shows people associate “networking” with feeling dirty or gross, while making friends carries no negative baggage.
  • Jon Levy [22:21]:

    “People related [networking] to the desire to wash their hands. They felt dirty… Do you know what doesn’t cause people to feel dirty?... Making friends.”

• Travis’ Personal Story:

  • Travis rebuilt his life’s network completely after leaving an insular religious upbringing, using friendship as the foundation.
  • The “no talk about your job” tactic at gatherings was borrowed from Jon’s approach and created deeper human connections.
  • Travis [18:16]:

    “When I left… it was like, I don’t know anybody… So Build Your Network, I started that as sort of a personal project to rebuild my entire network.”

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The Science of Connection: How Friendships Actually Form

Jon details the behavioral and psychological models underpinning true friendship.

• Common Ground Theory (Multiplexic Relationships):

  • Shared activities and overlapping interests (the more, the better) increase the likelihood of friendship.
  • Jon Levy [23:05]:

    “The first is what’s called the common ground theory… Anytime we have something in common, the more likely we are to become friends… The more of those we have, the more likely we are to be friends.”

• Proximity, Intensity, Frequency, Duration:

  • The more time spent together, the greater the emotional intensity, the closer the physical proximity, and the more frequent the interaction, the more likely a friendship will form.
  • Jon Levy [24:24]:

    “How long… How intense is that experience… Frequency… Proximity… People who are next door neighbors are significantly more likely to become friends than those that are three doors down…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you can create an environment where people can connect with people they find interesting, and it is novel and different, they will go far out of their way for an opportunity.”
  — Jon Levy [14:42]

• “Networking events don’t work… It is not the mechanic by which people actually connect.”
  — Jon Levy [22:05]

• “I figured out the people who were the best at [networking] were people who didn’t network at all. They were just the ones who made friends and were good people to those friends along the way.”
  — Travis Chappell [22:43]

• (Describing a dinner moment) “My full name is Isaiah Thomas. I was a 12 time NBA All Star…” (guests realize they’ve cooked with a sports legend)
  — Isaiah Thomas via Jon Levy story [16:23–17:05]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:09] – Introduction to the Four Characteristics for Connection
• [05:46] – How Jon’s Secret Dinners Started (on a budget)
• [07:12] – Cold-emailing and scaling guest outreach
• [08:36] – Logistics: Invitations and RSVP rates
• [09:56] – Funding & Scrappy Event Planning
• [11:44] – Monetizing Connections: From Dinners to Consulting and Speaking
• [13:54] – Turning down & then embracing New York Times publicity
• [14:42] – The illusion of wealth from running high-status events
• [17:10] – Travis’ background and drive to rebuild his network through friendship
• [21:26] – The science behind why networking feels “gross”
• [23:05] – Behavioral Science: How friendships actually form

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Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, funny, open, and highly relatable. Travis and Jon mix practical advice with engaging personal stories and sprinkle in humor and warmth—making the science of connection accessible to everyone.

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Takeaways

• Creating value, offering generosity, and curating novel experiences are more powerful than transactional networking.
• True human connection is about friendship, shared ground, and breaking the mold of traditional business interactions.
• Anyone (regardless of status or resources) can build an influential network with creativity, persistence, and authenticity.

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For the full, in-depth discussion, check out the complete episode of Travis Makes Friends with Jon Levy.

Transcript

[Travis]

Close your eyes.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go

[Travis]

of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Travis]

And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contact contacts.

[Travis]

What's up, money makers? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. Today I'm giving you a sneak peek of this week's episode of my main show, Travis Makes Friends, a podcast all about the most valuable asset that we have in our lives, our relationships. So whether we're talking about your network, your marriage, your friendships, or even your relationship with yourself, these conversations are designed to help you grow, connect and level up in all areas. I've sat down in person with everyone from world class athletes and entertainers to bestselling authors, entrepreneurs, and even former presidents. And you're going to love the snippet from this week's episode. So take a listen and if you're feeling it, go check out the full conversation over on Travis Makes Friends. Let's get into it.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And the answer is that there's kind of four characteristics that you can lean on to get past it. The first is to understand that they've experienced everything already. They don't need another casino themed fundraiser, and we definitely don't need another cup of coffee.

[Travis]

That's right.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

I've never in fact had coffee in my life, so it's like not the thing for me. Right, so what does that mean? That means that whatever you approach them with has to stand out as new or different. There's a section of the brain called the snvta. Doesn't matter what it stands for, it just sounds fancy science. But it's the major novelty center of the brain. And when you trigger it, it causes a desire to explore and understand. Because when something stands out as different to you, you're not safe until you understand it. Right? And so this does two things. It creates curiosity, potentially, or a desire to learn what it is. It'll get you out of the house. The second thing is it actually causes the areas of the brain having to do with creating new memories to activate. And so everything becomes more memorable. When that happens. When I say that, I mean the smells, the tastes, everything. So I needed to design something that first and Foremost was novel. Stood out as completely different. Second characteristic, the most influential people in our culture, do you know who they spend most of their time with?

[Travis]

Other influential people in their culture.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

That's what everybody thinks. Not at all. Almost never. They mostly spend their time with their admins, maybe their staff. Yeah. So if you go hang out with the CEO of Fortune 500 company, overwhelmingly, they're communicating with their assistant and their senior executives and their family.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Occasionally, very small percentage of the time, let's say 3% or something like that, they get to go to, like, some fancy party where there are other fancy people.

[Travis]

Yeah. Have box seats to the game or whatever.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Or that they're entertaining a client, which is another Fortune 500, whatever it is. Right. That's why, if they'll go to things like Davos, which is this big event in the coldest place you could imagine in Europe, there's no reason to go to Davos. It's inconvenient, it's cold, it's the middle of winter. Unless there are other fancy people there. Do they hear talks there? Yeah, but like we talked about earlier, you can hear all that stuff on a podcast or on YouTube or read a book. So they're going for the people. The third characteristic is generosity. They're used to having everybody after something. So if you can give them more than they're expecting or more than they're investing, then the defenses come down. If they don't feel like there's other shoes about to drop or another request. And then the final thing, which is by far the hardest, when I ask people what is the most desired emotional state, you usually hear things like happiness or love. Now, what's interesting about those is that you can feel those generally on, like, a daily basis to some degree. But there's one that's incredibly rare, and it is awe, which is the experience that repositions your view of the universe.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Right. So like the moment. Often people say, oh, before I had a child and after I had a child, or the moment when I realized how big the universe was, or the moment that I discovered whatever it was. Yeah. Right. It's perspective shifting. And you go, wow, if you can trigger those, everybody will want to connect with you. Now, that's near impossible. But something like Ted, you know, developed novel content.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

They curated well. Generous, maybe, occasionally. Maybe people saw awe when they saw a great talk. What I ended up doing was I created a secret dining experience. 12 people were invited. They're not allowed to talk about what they do or even give their last Name. And then after they arrive, they cook a terrible meal together. I mean, it's just awful. Then they sit down to eat, and they discover they're sitting with Olympians and astronauts and Nobel laureates and the guy who won a Grammy for barking on who let the dogs out. You know, like, just everybody is topping their field, and it's a fantastically amusing experience.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

But you can see. Oh, sorry.

[Travis]

Sorry. I was gonna say, how did you put those dinners together first? Like, your very first one? Were you, like, starting with Nobel astronauts? Like, is this. Or is this cornstarch?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

I don't know those people.

[Travis]

That's the immediate thought that just populated the brains of people that are listening to the show. I was like, I don't know those people, though. Guess I can't do that. You know? But I figured it was probably not the first dinner that you started with.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Oh, my God. The first dinner was, like, interesting people I knew, and it was an experiment. I didn't even really. I was. Travis. I was so broke. I was so broke, I paypaled my friend money so I could charge it to my credit card, and he gave me the cash because I had no money left, and I needed the money to order the supplies. And I didn't even really know why I was doing it. I thought, like, maybe I could meet the right people if I kept doing it. And the first dinner was a train wreck. Like, the air conditioning broke, and people spilled oil on their clothes. Like, just everything went wrong. I had no idea what I was doing, but I kept doing it. And what happened was by, like, the third dinner or so, somebody was like, oh, this is awesome. You should meet my friend. He writes for the Daily Show. And so then we had our first Emmy award winner come. And then I was like, oh, hey, maybe we can invite some of the other people. At the time, the Colbert Report was on and so on and so forth. And I realized, wait, hold on a second. Every Nobel laureate is just. Almost all of them are academics, which means that their email address is.

[Travis]

They're accessible.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And so I hired a bunch of people on Upwork, and I said, I want you to scour every award list and find me their contact info. And we just started cold emailing, and next thing I know, like, Dan Kahneman is there, the legendary behavioral scientist. And I hosted an agent from Hollywood, and she's like, oh, my clients would love this. And Bill Nye's showing up. And then, like, Razelle from the Roots is coming and doing a demo, and one of the fathers of Breakdancing is there.

[Travis]

Did you keep it to 12 and I for dinner?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Well, we invite up to a maximum of 16, knowing that there'll be cancellations because these people's lives are crazy and they get emergencies. I remember we were hosting the CMO of a very big tech company, and as he was coming over, he had to cancel because their batteries had blown up.

[Travis]

Oh, no.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

It was like a major incident. He'll be like, I can't explain what's going on, but sorry.

[Travis]

Exactly. I'm not going to be able to make this one. What? When you are sending out the invites, how carefully are you curating the guest list?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Not at all.

[Travis]

Okay. So you just have sort of like a master list and then you'll just.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, it's all random invitations.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

So it's tough because it used to be back in the day, we would invite 220 people to get 12.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Now it's closer to about 500, 450 or something like that. I have to check the latest numbers. And the reason is threefold. One is that during the pandemic, a lot of people switched jobs, and so we're probably emailing the wrong address. The second is it's spam. Jumped like crazy.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

So our stuff ended up getting blocked by a lot of. And it's just something that when you invite a lot of people to stuff,

[Travis]

you have to deal with well, especially that high quality of person. Yeah, yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

They're getting.

[Travis]

Yeah, right, right. You're not even sure they're ever going to read it or it's going to reach their desk. Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And the other thing is that, like, when you describe a dinner like that, people are like, are my kidneys gonna be stoned?

[Travis]

Like, I show up to an undisclosed location in the back alley, and we

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

also don't give them location till soon before just in case of, like, security and paparazzi and stuff like that. So we've had, you know, the prime minister of a European country come or. And it's not like the place that you want people to have the address to. Right.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly. When you first started doing this, how did you fund number two? Number three? Like, did you start charging for dinners? So you take on all the cost. Was there any sort of thought about, like, this was awesome, but I couldn't afford the first one. How am I going to afford to put on a second one or a third one or a 12th one?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

So what happened was I was able to eventually get the dinner cost down to about $100. Now it'd be more because of inflation. But we ate really inexpensive food. They cooked it. And so I was spending aside from my sweat equity. Right. Like initially I was doing all the invites and all that. I was spending something like $10 a person to run an event. And oh my God, I was so broke back in the day, I would get like the cheap Georgie vodka or whatever and pour it into a Grey Goose bottle. It was so bad I shouldn't have done it. But like, I was 30 years old and had no money. And here's the funniest thing. A later study by Planet Money, you know, the podcast found that Georgie is actually a higher quality or whatever. Whatever. They tested like some bottom shelf vodka. It was actually higher quality than Grey Goose. Grey Goose is not a good quality vodka.

[Travis]

I'll say. I've heard that it's the same as Kirkland.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

I don't think that's true.

[Travis]

Well, yeah, I think. I think Kirkland is like, they're. It's either the same or they're at least like manufactured at the same place, bottled at the same place, and then shipped to Costco's.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Vodka especially is like pure marketing. Yeah, yeah, there are. There are ones that are much higher quality. Sure. It's.

[Travis]

I did have one, one time that. That was like. I could tell. Yes, that was super smooth. But I'm not a big vodka guy, so.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, there's a company called. I think it's Bootlegger 21 or something. That Prohibition distillery. They're. They've consistently, like, won a ton of awards.

[Travis]

Oh, really?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And are known for being super high quality.

[Travis]

For vodka. Yeah, specifically. Okay.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Mind you, I'm not paid by them, just to be clear.

[Travis]

Just an actual recommendation.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So how did you start making money along the way? Like.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Oh, wow. So after a couple of years of running the dinners, very infrequently would be every few months. I got a job working at Rodale Men's Health, Women's Health Runners.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And eventually the division wasn't doing well. I think the CEO was kind of running things into the ground and they downsized me and the bunch of us, and I was like, man, how am I going to support myself? And I at that point hosted hundreds of people and influencer marketing had turned into something. So everybody wanted to know how I had connected with all these people. And brands started coming to me about the science of how to connect with their customers. So I started giving talks and running events and designing events for four brands. Yeah, yeah.

[Travis]

Oh, really?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And you name those brands and it was actually Kind of wild because I didn't have much money. I was lucky enough that I, like, managed to take all the money that I earned from the corporate job and pay off most of my student debt. And so then I just kept working at it and kept running dinners. And every year I was earning more and more. It was great.

[Travis]

Wow. And just from companies reaching out to you or people maybe that you even met at your dinners.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Some of them were at the dinners.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And I also ran a second event after a lot of the dinners called Inspired Culture. We'd invite about 60 to 100 people to come after the dinner. And it would be this kind of big. It wasn't a party, but we'd have talks and performances. And so I'd meet so many people that. And I actually ended up on the COVID of the New York Times style section. Oh, wow. Because one of the people who came was married to a writer. And one of the things that I was very clear on at the beginning was that even though I had nothing to sell these people, I knew I'd one day have a story to tell.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

So I'd make sure that every dinner I'd have a high profile journalist from a different outlet so that when I did have that story to tell, I could just reach out to them and say, hey, would this be of interest to these outlets? And then I'd have a place to promote whatever it is that I was doing.

[Travis]

And you felt like that was the time to tell the story?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

It wasn't even that. The New York Times approached me and I initially said no because I thought it would be cooler to be underground. Boy, was I wrong. It was way cooler to get attention.

[Travis]

Turns out attention actually is a little bit better.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah. It was fantastic. And so the funniest thing, and this was so funny was one of my friends came up to me a few weeks after the article came by. It came out and she goes, yeah, somebody came up to me. And mind you, I was broke. I barely had like 200 bucks in my bank account. Right. Somebody came up to my friend and said, hey, you know that billionaire that you're friends with that hosts all those parties? And I was just like, wow, perception. Yeah, I know.

[Travis]

Perception.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And like, it wasn't like I was intending to deceive anybody.

[Travis]

Of course not, no. Yeah, exactly.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

It was just they thought, you know, you have to have lots of money by association.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

To do that. And you just don't. If you can create an environment where people can connect with people they find interesting, and it is novel. And different. They will go far out of their way for an opportunity.

[Travis]

Novel and different are. Yeah, two.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

You need novel, well curated, generous. And if you can trigger that, the

[Travis]

awe, the sense of awe.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And sometimes it would happen. I remember at one dinner, two people were making guac and then they sat down. At some point we were doing the reveal and everybody was guessing what this gentleman did professionally. Black man, a bit older.

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[Travis]

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[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

We are looking for something, something you've discovered. Give me something to.

[Travis]

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[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

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[Travis]

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[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

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[Travis]

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[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And they're like, oh, you're a business leader, you're an executive. And he goes, yeah, well, my full name is Isaiah Thomas. I was a 12 time NBA All Star and you know, yada yada, and went through his like, accolades. Years of the Pistons, all that.

[Travis]

Of which there are plenty.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, there's. Yeah, it's one of the all time greats. And we had this news reporter for CNBC or something on camera and she goes, Isaiah Effin. Thomas. Isaiah Effin. I was bragging to Isaiah Thomas about my Division 3 basketball career while making Guac. And she literally takes her napkin, hides behind it and sinks completely into her chair.

[Travis]

But that's the point right there though, right of the. The point of not introducing them at the beginning.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Is because that's the reaction when people find out who other people are. Is you. Your, your. The stories that you've told yourself your whole life start coming to the surface and now all of a sudden you feel awkward around Isaiah Thomas or whoever, you know, this Nobel Prize winner, this astronaut, and you feel less than or maybe you feel better than, or you feel like higher status or lower status. It immediately inserts all of this, for lack of a better word, bullshit that prevents humans from connecting with other Humans, you know, which is kind of the beauty of it. I don't know if I got. I feel like I might have, like, read a book of yours or maybe heard you on somebody's show, like, back at the very beginning when I started all this, because my show used to be called build your network. So it was all a study about how to build better relationships. I sort of raised. Was raised in a cultish type of a religious bubble. So when I left that, I was starting from scratch in terms of people that I knew. So I spent my entire life there, from, like three to 20. School, church, everything was all on this one campus. Went there from kindergarten all the way through senior year of college, this one place. So when I left that, it was like, I don't know anybody.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I mean, other than the people from this world.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And I'm assuming if you've left, then they've. You're like, no longer.

[Travis]

Yeah, it was. It was kind of. I tell people there's sort of. Sort of like three buckets. There's the first bucket, which was people who actively were rooting against me because they didn't want any positive examples of anybody who could leave and do well.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You know, because their whole thing was like preaching the whole, you know, if you leave this, you end up. They would. They would tell you the stories of the person who left who ended up, like, addicted to cocaine and, you know, making. Doing nothing with their life, and they're homeless four years later and kill themselves in a decade. Yeah, I mean, they want those stories, you know, so don't like. They don't like people leaving and being successful. So there's that group, but I would say that would be a relatively small percentage. The largest group would probably be the ones in the middle who were basically just like, okay, good luck, you know what I mean? Like, go do your thing, but we're not gonna be there for you or actively rooting for you or helping you in any way. And there was like, the other group, which is also a small percentage, was like, these are, like, my real friends, the people who I'm still close with to this day, you know, so. But either way, when I left, even though the kind of real friends that I had, none of them were doing anything similar to what I wanted to do because it was a purely ministerial college, you know what I mean? And so nobody. Nobody that I grew up with or went to college with was going into business. And I didn't know any millionaires. I never met one, let alone, like, had. Of somebody I Could text or whatever. So build your network. I started that as sort of a personal project to rebuild my entire network. And I, I, I gotta say, it must have been you or like you, you, because you wrote a couple other books before the one you most recently wrote. And one of them was about something like this, right?

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, it's called, there was one called you're invited, which is, it has like

[Travis]

a little name tag on the front. Yeah, that's gotta be the one that I read because I remember doing this. I, I hosted a couple dinners and I did that at the beginning was like, you're not allowed to say what you do while we're in the cocktail hour mixer. And it was, it was more people. It's probably like 30, 40 people. But I got up at the very beginning.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

That's a big dinner. Yeah.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah, it was, it was, we rented out a really cool spot. I'll actually give you the contact because it's a really cool, like sort of one of those kind of back alley type places, big industrial park. You're kind of wondering why you're driving in there and you open the door. It's this beautiful little like almost speakeasy vibe facility in there. And so I rented that out, brought in 30, 40 people. The CEO of Chipotle came in and did like a Q A with us and everything like that. It was a lot of fun. But the very, at the very beginning, I basically said, hey, you're not allowed to talk about what you do. And then probably 20, 30 minutes later, we did round intros with everybody. I passed around the mic and everybody introduced themselves, but I, and I, like I said, I, I want to say that that came from something that I read or heard or maybe went on a podcast or something. Maybe Jordan Harbinger or something like that. I know it's a mutual friend, but, but it, it works so well because of that that, you know, like I say we get, we get in our own heads, we start buying into bullshit.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Initially, it, People have like this awkward moment where they want to go into their standard routine.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's, that's the reason. It's the whole, that's like the thing they're taught from like 1980s version of networking.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

It's just like, here's my card. I can tell you how great I am.

[Travis]

What do you do? First question out of your mouth, oh, my name is whatever. Here's my card. What do you do? That's it. That's it. That's the whole script. Now all of a sudden you're not allowed to talk about it.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

There's this great little study that was done on networking and actually two of them. One was, they asked, I think it was Columbia University MBA students, how important networking is, and they ranked it really high. It's super important for your career. Like, you gotta do it. And then they actually went and observed them at parties and found that none of them talked to strangers and just

[Travis]

stayed in their little group.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah. Eventually they felt obligated and to talk to one person, but whatever. Networking events don't work. They're just. And the reason is that it is not the mechanic by which people actually connect.

[Travis]

That's correct.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

And I'll explain that mechanic in a moment. The second really fun study was looking at what's the implicit association of networking. So in the back of your mind, when you think about networking, how does it actually feel?

[Travis]

Gross.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Exactly. People related it to the desire to wash their hands. They felt dirty. Do you know what doesn't cause people to feel dirty? Well, lots of stuff, but specifically in the same realm is making friends. There's no negative association to it.

[Travis]

That is quite literally the reason for the rebrand from Build. You'd network to Travis makes friends.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, it was exactly.

[Travis]

That was what I discovered. It was like I got on this path to figure out how to be a better networker. And I figured out the people who were the best at it were people who didn't network at all. They were just the ones who made friends and were good people to those friends along the way.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

So now we have to ask the question, what makes people friends? And then if you look at it, there's kind of three or four major mechanics you want to look at.

[Travis]

Okay.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

The first is what's called the common ground theory. It's a terrible scientific term. I'll tell you the scientific term just so I can sound fancy, and you're like, oh, that guy's a behavioral scientist. It's called a multiplexic relationship. So for whatever reason, I don't even understand why it's called a plex. Anytime we have something in common, the more likely we are to become friends. We go to the same gym, that's one thing. But if we also go to the same church, or we are both friends with Jordan Harbinger, or we both go to the same mma, whatever it is, the more of those we have, the more likely we are to be friends. And the reason is familiarity and common ground define the likelihood that you're actually going to feel connected to someone when you're at a networking event. You. When you're having that initial conversation, what you're actually trying to find is something in common that you can feel safe talking about. So people ask about what shows and where you grew up and all that. They're like grasping at straws to find something that's common. I think it's. The FBI uses this model. It's called the was it intensity, proximity, frequency and something model. It's. There's like four characteristics. Proximity, intensity, frequency and duration.

[Travis]

Yeah, so duration sounds right. Yeah, I've heard this before.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

How long do you. How much time are you spending together? How intense is that experience? Because it'll put you in a vulnerable state. If it's really intense, like if you're on the Was it the bus from Speed, Then you've gone through like major event together. Right. Frequency. How often are you around each other? Intensity, frequency, proximity and duration. Proximity is how close are you to each other? So people who are next door neighbors are significantly more likely to become friends than those that are three doors down from each other.

[Travis]

Yeah, like actual geographical proximity.

[Behavioral Scientist / Event Host]

Yeah, precisely. So that's another factor.