TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Tony (@Trainbloom)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Travis Makes Money

Episode: TMF PREVIEW | Make Friends with Tony (@Trainbloom)

Date: July 22, 2026

Host: Travis Chappell
Guest: Health Expert Tony (@Trainbloom)

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Main Theme

This episode offers a preview into an upcoming episode of Travis’s other show, “Travis Makes Friends,” focusing on the intersection of relationships, self-improvement, and the mindset behind truly sustainable health and wealth-building. Travis shares his personal health journey while Tony dismantles common fitness myths, emphasizing science-backed, sustainable approaches over fads and dogma. The episode is full of practical advice, honest takes, and open-minded discussion on health and fitness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Live Selling and Community Engagement

• [00:04 – 01:28]
  Travis discusses the explosive growth of live selling platforms like Whatnot, noting how people are building communities and real businesses by engaging directly with buyers.

  “Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist... you’re not just listing products, you’re building real connections with buyers across whatnot.”
  — Travis, 00:41

2. Health Journeys: Vulnerability and Ownership

• [01:29 – 02:44]
  Travis shares his personal experience of gaining 60 lbs after college sports and how he struggled for years with fads, challenges, and yo-yo dieting before embracing sustainability.

  “I finally just embraced the idea of something that was sustainable for my health. Stop worrying about the fads. Stop doing the challenges.”
  — Travis, 03:27

3. Myth-Busting Rapid Fire: Fitness “Rules” and Misconceptions

a. Seed Oils

• [04:53 – 13:20]
  Tony explains why the demonization of seed oils is unsupported by research, revealing that replacing saturated fats with seed oils is often associated with better (or at least non-worse) health outcomes in real-world studies.

  “There’s no such thing as a single unhealthy or healthy ingredient or food. It’s all in context... You can have a healthy life, healthy diet with seed oils. You can have an unhealthy life and health without seed oils. So it goes both directions.”
  — Tony, 05:46
  “People trust a mechanism instead of the outcome... In research, every single time, nothing happens—or even health improvement—by adding seed oils.”
  — Tony, 06:41

b. Calorie Deficit and Weight Loss

• [13:20 – 23:08]
  Tony stresses the non-negotiable science that a calorie deficit—not any single food or exercise method—is the only way to lose weight, but recognizes why people feel frustrated or misled by this message. He breaks down the pitfalls of tracking, how easy it is to underreport, and clarifies that most failures come from mismeasurement.

  “Yes, that's true. Like a calorie deficit. That's not a way you lose weight. That's the way you lose weight... It’s insane scientific law.”
  — Tony, 13:41
  “99.9% of the time, people are eating more calories than they think—they’re underreporting.”
  — Tony, 17:08

  Tony also references a famous study showing people self-report half their actual calorie intake and often misdiagnose themselves with metabolic disorders when they’re actually just off in their tracking.

  Travis shares how tracking calories alone—not changing diet, just measuring honestly for weeks—opened his eyes to the hidden calorie sources and “bites, licks, and tastes” that can sabotage progress.

  “That was one of the biggest things for me was... I just tried to standard this calorie count and give myself room to breathe on whether or not I’m in a surplus or in a deficit... that was what made it sustainable.”
  — Travis, 20:41

c. Sustainable Eating & “Bad” Foods

• [21:40 – 23:36]
  Tony champions the idea that no single food is “bad” in a foundational sense and references experiments (like Jordan Syatt’s “Big Mac every day” challenge) that prove you can include your favorite foods while making health and body composition improvements—as long as you’re in a deficit and meeting your nutritional needs. He challenges the idea of guilt and restriction.

  “In what definition is eating that Big Mac unhealthy?... There isn’t one. So how are you going to say that's bad?”
  — Tony, 22:36

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4. Understanding TDEE and Calorie Expenditure

• [23:08 – 27:45]
  Tony and Travis break down Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) and debunk the myth that exercise is the main way to burn calories:

  • Exercise accounts for only about 5-10% of daily calories burned.
  • NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) is the “gold” that can contribute more than 1,000 calories/day difference between an active and sedentary person.
  • Focusing only on gym workouts while neglecting daily movement is a major mistake; gentle “pep in your step” movement all day is exponentially more effective.

  “You should not work out to burn calories. That is a... hamster wheel forever... It adds up to so few calories.”
  — Tony, 24:45

  Travis reflects on his own transition from “kill myself in the gym” to valuing low-intensity, frequent movement.

  “If I just walked extra, lifted some weights at the gym—that’s probably going to be better.”
  — Travis, 27:04

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Fitness Fads:

  “I identified myself as like a hyper-disciplined person, so I'd be like, ‘Oh, I can do 75 Hard, I can do 30 Whole, this and 21…’ and then it’s just like, inevitably, as soon as I was done with it, I'd be right back to where I was.”
  — Travis, 03:53

• On Food Tracking Frustration:

  “It pisses you off when you first start tracking... Your soul just takes a step backwards and just falls off a cliff eventually.”
  — Tony, 19:05

• On NEAT and Lifestyle:

  “The NEAT is the gold.”
  — Travis, 27:42
  — Tony, 27:44

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Topic | |-----------|-----------| | 00:04–01:28 | Live selling & community on Whatnot | | 01:29–03:53 | Travis's health journey & yo-yo dieting | | 04:53–13:20 | Seed oils myth; focus on science, not mechanism | | 13:20–23:08 | Calorie deficit, why the basics are hard | | 21:40–23:36 | Including “bad” foods, sustainable nutrition | | 23:08–27:45 | TDEE, exercise vs. NEAT, practical advice |

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Takeaways & Tone

• Empowering, no-bullshit, practical science over fads.
• Listeners are encouraged to embrace simple, proven principles for health and money—habits that last, relationships that matter, and a flexible approach to life and diet.
• Common struggles (food tracking, motivation, self-doubt) are normalized, with empathy and humor.
• The episode blends personal storytelling with direct myth-busting and actionable wisdom.

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Interested listeners should check out the full episode on “Travis Makes Friends” for more deep dives, especially if you want to rethink your approach to both health and wealth with a touch of candor and inspiration.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

I was recently on whatnot the other

[Travis]

day, just shopping around, looking frankly, because

[Podcast Host]

I was just blown away that this is something that people are doing with their time. And so I was like, I got

[Travis]

to go see if this thing is

[Podcast Host]

real before I talk about it on the show. And so I'm browsing whatnot, looking around, finding things, and it's crazy to see the volume of people that are just having fun in the chat. They're watching people do live shopping. It's like, it's like, you know, QVC directly on your phone. It's something you need to try, I'm telling you. Not just buying, but the selling piece to too. Where these people are just starting up pop up shops and businesses, selling whatever product, finding their people, building community, getting repeat customers that come back to see

[Travis]

your face as the seller.

[Podcast Host]

Not just a logo or a brand, anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on any other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers across whatnot. The number of sellers making over $1 million a year has now doubled. The consistency pays off for those sellers. It's not just side hustle, it's a real path to building something that lasts. Because whatnot buyers spend more than an hour a day in the app, they're not just browsing around, they're engaged, they're buying, they're coming back. You go live, show off your products in real time and turn what you love into real income. So search whatnot wh o t Whatnot in the App Store, download it today and get started selling right away.

[Travis]

What's up, moneymakers? Welcome back to the Travis Makes Money podcast. Today I'm giving you a sneak peek of this week's episode of my main show, Travis Makes Friends, a podcast all about the most valuable asset that we have in our lives, our relationships. So whether we're talking about your network, your marriage, your friendships, or even your relationship with yourself, these conversations are designed to help you grow, connect and level up in all areas. I've sat down in person with everyone from world class athletes and entertainers to bestselling authors, entrepreneurs, and even former presidents. And you're going to love the snippet from this week's episode. So take a listen and if you're feeling it, go check out the full conversation. Over on Travis Makes Friends. Let's get into it. I wanted to talk a little bit about just some of the takes that you had. The thing is, I've been on my own health and fitness journey over the last, call it, decade now. I grew up playing a ton of sports, as always athletic and never had to worry about gaining weight and then had ankle reconstruction surgery my junior year of college and I got married my senior year of college and then I stopped working out and playing basketball and then my wife was cooking all this bomb ass food and she didn't know how to cook for two. Yeah, it was just like you have the leftovers and you go in for seconds and thirds and you, you know what I mean? So I think, I think I gained close to 60 pounds in about a year.

[Health Expert]

Oh, dang. Okay. It was laying on.

[Travis]

Yeah. So I was 250, I'm about six one. So I was 250 pounds back actually about a decade ago now. And so, and then from there it was like the first time I ever realized I had to take ownership of my health, that it was like, oh, I. I've got to like actually burn unlimited calories from playing basketball all day, you know what I mean? Like I have to actually think about this now. And led to, let's try CrossFit and let's try keto and let's try, you know, like anything that you can imagine. I tried it like the Camp 6 Week Transformation Challenge and Nutri and T25 and Insanity. Like I remember.

[Health Expert]

Oh my God. Insanity is a throwback.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

I forgot insanity existed. That was funny.

[Travis]

Do that stuff. P90X. I did that too. So I just tried like everything. Yeah. And then I didn't really find like a good routine until a couple of years ago when I finally just embraced the idea of something that was sustainable for my health. And stop worrying about the swallow. Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. Stop worrying about the fads. Stop doing the challenges. Because I identified myself as like a hyper disciplined person. So I'd be like, oh, I can do 75 hard. I can do 30 whole this and 21.

[Health Expert]

Yes.

[Travis]

You know what I mean? And then it's just like inevitably, as soon as I was done with it, I'd be like right back to where I was. I was just yo yoing back and forth. And so I say all that to say the people that I follow online in the health and fitness space tend to be the people who actually give the best information that they can without preaching one line or one category of thing as though it is the gospel. Because everybody's body is different, everybody reacts a little bit differently. But there's a few Core things that if you do these things well, you're probably going to be okay. And then there's a bunch of other nonsense where it's like we're focusing on the 5% here, and you're stepping over the 95% to focus on the 5%. So I want to just go through a list of just that's said in the health space. And I want you just to kind of like give me the good, the bad, the ugly, or take on it. All right.

[Health Expert]

Okay. So first we going rapid fire or like context?

[Travis]

Yeah, let's do like maybe one to three minutes, something like that. Like nothing.

[Health Expert]

Okay. Not like one line.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

One word answers. Okay.

[Travis]

Yeah, just. Yeah, whatever. Whatever comes to mind for this thing.

[Health Expert]

Okay.

[Travis]

Seed oils.

[Health Expert]

This is. Okay, this is gonna be a fun couple lists. Starting off hot, I feel like the. The theme, I'm gonna guess I don't know what you have on your list, but I'm gonna guess that the root of a lot of these are actually gonna be fairly similar. Seed oils is an interesting one. It's new, and I say it's interesting because this one really just kind of got started based on nothing, and it got caught because of how it was put out there, marketed as seed oils, at least just to build context for people who maybe not, you know, who aren't familiar with that. Seed oils have been an overblown, negative thing when it comes to your health. Where my take when it comes to any single ingredient, any. Anything is. I think you actually mentioned it on either. The conversation we just had with Michael, where it was in passing the poison makes the dose or the dose makes the poison.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

There's no such thing as a single unhealthy or healthy ingredient or food. It's all in context. Right. There's a healthier, unhealthy diet, but there's not a single healthy or unhealthy food. You can have a healthy life, healthy diet with seed oils. You can have an unhealthy life and health with. Without seed oils. So it goes both directions. Seed oils is just interesting because there's been quite a bit of data out there testing on real humans, not in mice, not in vitro, not in a petri dish, in a lab like in real humans, where they will substitute normal saturated fats with high density seed oil fats in their diets to test this out and say, okay, if seed oils are truly bad, if we replace 90% of these individuals saturated fat with seed oils, like, their health should decline.

[Travis]

Right.

[Health Expert]

We should see some smoke. If not A massive fire, and every single time, nothing happens.

[Travis]

Interesting.

[Health Expert]

The. The health outcomes are either the same. And actually the funny part to me is oftentimes better. Like you see health improvement by adding seed oils. So that's why this is such an interesting conversation to me is because I'm like, not only is the idea just false and provably false.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

It's sometimes the opposite. Like you're seeing positive health impacts when people substitute saturated fats for seed oils. I think that one comes down to a common theme, which is why I think something like the keto diet was very popular and exploded. And it's this idea that people trust a mechanism instead of the outcome. And I think instead of talking about just like fatty acids and how we metabolize those, an easier one that most people can latch onto in here and not to steer out of the seed oil thing. Cause it'll come back, is when it comes to. Did you say you tried keto? Yeah, yeah, keto, right. Low carb, I think the entire base. And correct me if I'm wrong of why you started it. The thought process behind it is carbohydrates spike, something called insulin. I'm a type 1 diabetic. I know a lot about insulin. Right. Carbs spike insulin. That's true. That's the mechanism, right? It spikes insulin in your body. Now, something about insulin is when it's present, your body temporarily not shuts down, but really limits burning fat. Because insulin's like a storage hormone, is what you can think of it as. And it stops burning, burning fat. So that's just the mechanism that takes place in your body. And that's a true mechanism. But where people go wrong is they take that mechanism and they jump over these massive. I don't even know what you want to call them, gaps, these assumptive gaps. And they say, okay, well, if that's true, I'm going to jump over here and then also assume. Well, that should mean if insulin makes me burn less fat, the less insulin I have, the more fat I'll lose, the more fat I'll burn, right? And that's something that you can't jump over because that's just not true, right? That comes down to calorie intake versus what you're burning. So seed oil, same thing. It's like there are some mechanisms that I have heard talked about with seed oils that might pertain to the inflammatory pathway or something like that that are true, right? Like these mechanisms are true. But people will extrapolate the small little details and say, this is how it acts in real life. And a lot of the times that's just not true. And why you see in this research, and this is why I think research is so cool. I wish more people could talk about it and we're interested in it is because like, I don't know why, like when I was a kid, I, I just loved being right and I hated being wrong. Like to a fault where I'm like, I would have been the biggest piece of crap kid to deal with. I would have hated myself today. Like today I think humility and being wrong is the coolest thing. But like back in the day, I just hated it. I think maybe that's where I got my start as I'm like, okay, that's a cool mechanism. Like let's test it out and prove it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

And in a, in a design where you can control all of the co factors, the things that are coming in that might throw you off or that might interfere with the data otherwise, like you're in a controlled setting to prove an outcome. And if it just doesn't exist, like it doesn't exist, that's cool. You found that out. But a lot of the times, like with the seed oil conversation, people will ignore the outcome in real life and choose to pick on these mechanisms that might exist in like a petri dish or in something like a rat or something small. And that's where the seed oil conversation, it really just starts and ends.

[Travis]

Yeah, you're getting, you're, it's, you're stepping over a hundred dollar bills to pick up pennies type of a thing.

[Health Expert]

Exactly.

[Travis]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Health Expert]

exactly. Eating.

[Travis]

Eating the fast food french fries that are fried in beef tallow exactly. Is not going to be any better for your diet.

[Health Expert]

Yes, the whole in n out thing that just. Is it in and out or what company just announced?

[Travis]

I feel like that's. I feel like that's an antithesis to in n out. But maybe. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know I do remember seeing

[Health Expert]

somebody, some company announce it and everyone was celebrating. It's like, no, that massive. Finally, we're 2,000 calorie burger. Fried milkshake is not going to be good for you because it's cooked in beef down anymore. It's hilarious to think about. But that's. Yeah, that's the seed oil conversation.

[Travis]

All right. This one is admittedly sort of silly, but humor me. Calorie deficit for weight loss.

[Health Expert]

See, this one I like a lot, actually, because this is where people go and practice. Let me try and think of the best place to start this. Yes, that's true. Like a calorie deficit. That's not a way you lose weight.

[Advertisement Voice]

That's.

[Health Expert]

That's the way you lose weight. And I think it's more just because I think a lot of the problem in this industry when people talk about health and fitness is just a lack of understanding it. Like the basic definition of the words that we're using.

[Travis]

Yeah, right.

[Health Expert]

Like, if you understood the definition of a calorie, you don't have to think about that statement. Right. Because that's the most ridiculous thing to ever think that the opposite could be true. Like, that's, that's insane scientific law. Yeah, it's like our. It's like no one's going to go against, like, no one's special enough to go against gravity, like another physical law. It's like, this is energy, right? This is literally just talking about energy transfer. And that's where I think people go wrong. And I'm very particular in the words that I choose to use and why. I also like to take a different route than like, Michael was talking about, where I like to really think and choose my words carefully. Because I think your word matters, like, a lot. Like, I really take your, like, my word and people I'm talking to, like, their word very seriously. And I don't think it's something that you should lazily throw around. And so many times I think that calorie deficit conversation just comes from people talking completely past each other. They're not using the same words. They're basically speaking another language. Like, that's not being hyperbolic. Like, they're using different definitions for words that they're using. They think they're saying the same thing, but they're not. And with a calorie deficit, I think it's. It's frustrating for people to hear that. And I don't blame the people for believing that. Honestly, like, it's so easy to believe that you could, like, the calorie deficits are just a sham and BS because anybody who's tried it the way that they are taught to do it and the way that they're taught and shaped these, these expectations through, if it's marketing from the supplement industry or from these challenges or the 75 hards, it's that progress comes fast. And then when you hear a calorie deficit is the only thing that causes weight loss and you eat less food for a week, let's say maybe two weeks, but the scale is going up and down unknowingly just because of water fluctuations that just happen. Like, that's your body, it's mostly water. It's going to happen. You're going to be super frustrated because a calorie deficit sucks. Like, it's hard. Yeah, it sucks. There's no way around it. And if it doesn't suck, you're probably not doing it right. Or Geron Ozempic or like a GLP one. Yeah, that's a way to make it not suck. But when you put in this effort and it sucks and you have to give up sacrifices in your life, you can't go out to eat with your friends, your spouse, you can't go out with your friends, you can't stay out drinking, it sucks. And then to see the scale not move when you're told that this is the only way to make it move, it is so easy to be like, yeah, I wouldn't freaking believe that either if that's the way I was taught.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

You know, like it's easy to chalk

[Travis]

it up to hormones or genetics or this is my body type type of thing.

[Health Expert]

Exactly. And there's a million things to fall back on. And just the, the idea of tracking calories is so insane to me in the first place because it's one not a very exact science. Like, even the foods that we track in my fitness pal, like they're up to 10 to 20% off in either direction. Yeah, right. Just because if that's how the law is and also just because it's very hard to get things that consistent. Right. But tracking it doesn't also mean that that's what you ate. Like, I'll be honest with most of the people who I work with who come to me with that complaint of I'm eating X amount of calories, putting myself in a deficit, I'm not losing weight. What's going on? 99.9% of the time, people are eating more calories than they think they're underreporting.

[Travis]

I saw a study one time and I did not go read the studies so I don't know how true it is, but I saw something that said that they did this randomized control group of people that are on a calorie deficit and they found that on average they underreported their calorie intake by 50%.

[Health Expert]

Yep.

[Travis]

On average, yeah. 50%.

[Health Expert]

Yeah, it was, I've actually talked about that study quite a bit. It was people who, I think it was people who reported eating between 800 and 1200 calories a day that could not lose weight. The, the cool interesting part when you dig past just like the results of the study too, a lot of those individuals had then self diagnosed themselves with like a metabolic disorder, Hashimoto's, pcos. Things that they didn't have self diagnosed because they were that certain that that's what they were doing. And, and in reality they were intaking over 2,400, sometimes 3,000 calories on average while they thought they were eating around a thousand. That's insane.

[Travis]

Insane.

[Health Expert]

They weren't like being completely naive either. They weren't like knowingly lying. They were trying, they were trying to be accurate. That's just how hard it is like learning another language.

[Travis]

That was honestly like one of the biggest things that changed it for me was like I, I forget if it was 30 days or 60 days, but it was some extended period of time where I was just like I'm. The only thing I'm going to change right now is just tracking the calories. I'm not going to worry about changing up the diet or you know, vilifying myself for a higher calorie, lower calorie day. Nothing. I'm just going to track putting in my mouth. But it's totally understandable and perfectly reasonable that people would under report the number of calories that they're consuming because it's so easy to consume calories. Yeah, everything you drink, you know, like you have to switch to zero calorie beverages. Like can't have sugar and cream in your coffee. Like there go the you know, Macchiato's and the you know, caramel lattes and everything. Yeah, it's like that's gone. Like I can't spend any of my calories on drinks unless it's an alcoholic drink.

[Health Expert]

It pisses you off when you first start tracking. I don't know if you had those moments like when you first start tracking when you learn certain things like how many calories are in them, sauces and stuff. Oh my God. Your soul just takes a Step backwards and just falls off a cliff eventually

[Travis]

because you think you're doing. It's like, oh, I have grilled chicken. And you're like, but I'm not gonna have plain grilled chicken. Let me just get some barbecue sauce. Like, oh, there's. That doubled the amount of calories in this meal.

[Health Expert]

And then you use a food skill and you're like, oh, I've been eating seven servings of something I thought was only one. Like, it's absurd how much it sneaks up on you.

[Travis]

And then you take a little handful of fries from your wife's dinner plate or whatever and then you dip in the ranch like the, the, the BLTs, bites, licks and tastes. Man, dude, those will screw you over big time, you know, and tracking calories,

[Health Expert]

like, I, I empathize with people too, because it's annoying. Like, it shouldn't be. Like, on paper, it takes maybe an extra five to ten minutes a day. That's it. But I think anybody who does both, they work out and they track calories will tell you that they would go rather do a grueling one hour workout a hundred percent, then track their feet easy. And on paper, it makes no sense, but it's, it's annoying.

[Travis]

I feel like it's the added friction of something that you. And like, the part of your day that you're trying to enjoy, you know what I mean? Like from, like, you almost like subconsciously want to turn a blind eye to the potential extra calories that you're eating, you know what I mean? Because you're just like, I've said no to all the things that I really wanted all day, and now I'm finally gonna sit down and have this steak or have this burger or whatever, and it's like, I just want to enjoy.

[Health Expert]

You just don't want to think about it sometimes.

[Travis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Health Expert]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You want to be like, okay, let me see how bad I'm about to be. You know what I mean?

[Health Expert]

You're like in a bad mood about what you're about to eat. Like, this sucks.

[Travis]

Exactly. But yeah, dude, that, that was one of the biggest things for me was it was sort of an unlo because I started realizing, like, okay, if I just get, if I just try to standard this calorie, this like, calorie count and give myself room to breathe on whether or not I'm in a surplus or in a deficit so that I'm not riding that line. Because if you're riding that line, you're probably gonna be in a Surplus. You know what I mean? Just to be honest.

[Health Expert]

Yeah, yeah. It's always tack on a little bit extra. Cause you just, you, you never know.

[Travis]

So give myself a little breathing room and. But then it was like I prioritized protein and started just making sure that mo. The majority of the food that I ate was in effort, in an effort to get to my protein goal and was like, oh, I have like 500 calories that I can like spend however I want. Yeah, exactly. But that was what made it sustainable, was I was like, I can have a chocolate chip cookie and not hate myself after I finish eating it. Like, I can actually enjoy it with a little bit of milk and stay on my calorie deficit and still lose

[Health Expert]

weight and still be. I think be. Be healthy is the, like, the biggest piece of that is where people think it's like a trade off, where it's like. But I can still fit that bad thing in my diet. And I challenge people who say that I'm like, bad in what definition?

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

One of my favorite experiments that my friend Jordan side, I don't know if you, you know who he is. Jordan side. He's.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah. Actually, that was the podcast. Listen to you. You on.

[Health Expert]

Oh yeah, like long, long. He's been in the fitness game for like 15 years. Like, crazy long term OG he did a crazy cool experiment. I think anyone listening or even you, if you haven't seen it, should go home. He. I forget what it was called the Big Mac every day for 30 day challenge, whatever it was. And he's like, I'm gonna eat in a calorie deficit. I'm gonna get my steps. I'm not gonna change anything else about my workout routine, and I'm gonna force myself to eat a Big Mac every single day and fit that into my calories.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

And not only did he lose weight along the way, but all of his health markers improved. Because that's what happens when you get. You lose body fat.

[Travis]

Crazy, right?

[Health Expert]

Like, it's, it's wild. So in what definition is eating that Big Mac unhealthy? Like, point to what data? What marker? Anything that moved in the wrong direction. Yeah, there isn't one. So how are you going to say that's bad? That's my challenge to people who, and I think a lot of times will guilt themselves into still feeling bad about, like, some cookies, even if it fits in their calories. Yeah, it's like, what are you talking about? Like, if you nailed everything else, you're getting mostly whole foods. That's not bad in any definition of the word.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah. I've started reframing that when I say

[Health Expert]

it every time I did Bad Travis.

[Travis]

As long as it fits in my car. So. So break down tdee. So, because this is something, again, that I. It's so easy to say just be in a calorie deficit and then. But if you've never studied any of this stuff at all, it makes you do silly things that are perfectly reasonable. Silly things. Like, it makes you just be like, oh, I'm just gonna go outrun my diet, or I'm gonna fit, or, like, I have to be barfing on the gym floor if I'm going to be able to lose weight.

[Health Expert]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So, like, explain, you know, how do you actually get some form of an accurate representation of calories in and calories out?

[Health Expert]

Getting an accurate form of it is tricky, but it's not impossible. The thing that you got to give up is this perfection number, because what your body's burning on a daily basis is a moving target. Today is going to be different than yesterday, than tomorrow, than any probably day that you've lived. Like, it's just. There's so many things that influence it. But that's the probably next biggest problem. I see that second layer, deep. Is that when you can finally accept that you need a calorie deficit to lose weight. What does that mean? Calories coming in, calories going out. Okay. Calories going in. That's easy. Food, drink. What goes in my mouth. Calories going out. No one usually thinks about or spends time thinking about other than exercise.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Health Expert]

What did my apple watch say I burned during that workout? Whatever it is. And it's. I mean, funny from this point of view, once you know it, because exercise is the smallest piece of what you burn in a day by a long shot.

[Travis]

Like, that was probably my favorite part of that interview. That conversation was the way that you guys both talked about how you should not exercise for the purpose of burning calories.

[Health Expert]

No, you should not work out to burn calories. That is a. You're going to be on a hamster wheel forever. Like, that's not the point or shouldn't be the point of working out. And it's because it adds up to so few calories. When you look at your day to day, your week to week, and there's four big pieces of TDE or, like, where you burn calories in a day. Exercise that little cherry on top, like, 5 to 10%. If you're crazy. It's close to 10%. But the most malleable that people always forget is something called neat or non exercise movement, which is all of the movement you do, like talking with your hands, walking in steps through the day, the other 23 hours you're not in the gym. All of the movement that your body does, which might not be a lot if you tried to add it up like in this conversation. How many calories did I burn moving my hands? Not many. Like nothing that I would really count on. But that constant flow, something that's just always on the gas, even if it's a little bit, is gonna get you further than just slamming on it for one hour a day. And it's absurd. I don't think people realize that you could burn. And this has been documented countless times, 1 to 2,000 extra calories a day just based on your non exercise movement alone.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Health Expert]

Someone who has a very inactive desk job, who gets maybe two or three thousand steps outside of that per day and just sits compared to that same exact person, that same exact body with their same hormones or whatever you want to put in there, who now stands at work, who takes little micro 5 minute walk breaks on the hour, who gets their steps in the morning, maybe after work, whatever it is, and just lives a more active lifestyle, could be burning over a thousand extra calories. You know, tracking calories, that makes a difference. Yeah, that's the difference between going to bed starving in a calorie deficit and like having a freaking cheeseburger for dinner. Like that's a big difference. And honestly, what's probably going to dictate how long someone's able to last in a weight loss phase or something like that? For sure, it's something that people should pay more attention to.

[Travis]

Yeah, that was 100% something that made a big, big difference because again, I was always trying to kill myself in my workouts. It was like that was my, that was my metric. It was like, how close to death did I get on the gym floor today? You know, and it was like a almost crappy realization to be like, oh, if I just walked extra, lifted some weights at the gym, you know what I mean? Like that's probably going to be better.

[Health Expert]

Well, and it's weird because I used to do the same thing. And I don't know about you, if you ever realized it when I would do that in the gym. I think without knowing it, I was shooting myself in the foot. A lot of people are because they're exhausted the rest of the day, the

[Travis]

rest of the day.

[Health Expert]

They're sunken in their chairs. They don't want to get up. It's just like they can barely keep their eyes open, right? That makes a way bigger difference for the next 20 hours that you're just lounging back than if you had a maybe less intense workout. You gave it like a 6 or a 7 instead of a 9 or a 10 or 11. But you're able to actually move and you have a pep in your step and you're moving around. It can't be understated enough how much that goes towards your success. You're just discounting it too much. For most people.

[Travis]

The neat is the gold.

[Health Expert]

Neat is the gold.

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