He Called Me A Grifter... It Didn't Go Well

Summary

TRIGGERnometry — “He Called Me A Grifter... It Didn't Go Well”

Date: July 25, 2025
Host: Konstantin Kisin (TRIGGERnometry)
Guest: Jimmy the Giant

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Episode Overview

In this episode, TRIGGERnometry host Konstantin Kisin sits down with YouTuber Jimmy the Giant following Jimmy’s viral video “Rise of the Middle Class Grifter,” in which Konstantin is prominently featured as an example of so-called “grifting.” The conversation explores the definitions of “grifting” in online discourse, YouTube incentives, media accountability, the left/right political divide, and Jimmy’s personal political evolution from “alt-right pipeline” libertarianism to a more left-leaning, materialist focus. The tone shifts from combative to occasionally self-reflective, as both wrestle with the ethics of public critique and the responsibilities of content creators.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jimmy’s Background and Political Evolution

• Jimmy started as a Parkour YouTuber and micro-entrepreneur.
• His later popular content examined UK subcultures (e.g., “chavs”) and the material conditions behind their rise.
  • “I started to learn about the material factors that led to the creation of the ‘chav’ underclass.” (05:30)
• Initially self-described as “right wing, hustle-bro, libertarian, meritocracy-believer,” he shifted leftward after researching social issues and becoming aware of his own advantages.
  • “I realized I had a lot of advantages that I didn’t even consider advantages – like two parents in a stable, if small, house, decent school, etc.” (10:12-11:21)
• Claims his journey out of “the alt right pipeline” ran through exposure to left-wing writers (particularly Owen Jones), and exploration of historical subcultures, eventually focusing on “material” (class/economic) rather than “cultural” issues.

2. Defining ‘Grifter’ on YouTube

• Jimmy’s viral video accused many right-leaning commentators (including Konstantin) of being “grifters.”
• What is a “grifter”?
  • Jimmy: “Someone who effectively sells bullshit…they see that outrage and reactionary content sells, and if I follow that, I’ll make lots of money.” (28:57)
  • However, he concedes: “Doesn’t mean that they don’t believe in these ideas. Really, some grifters are true believers…” (29:13)
• He admits the “grifter” accusation is often deployed too broadly, including by himself.
  • “What I was doing was calling people grifters if I disagree with them — and you guys do the same, where you call us woke libs…” (28:37)
• Repeatedly, he and Konstantin challenge one another’s use of clickbait, evidence, and intent-to-outrage as criteria.

3. Content Criticism and Evidence

• Jimmy’s Analysis: He claims TRIGGERnometry overwhelmingly focuses on “culture war” topics (trans, woke, migrants, etc.) and rarely addresses material issues (housing, NHS, cost of living).
  • “I looked through about 222 videos…93% are reactionary, only 15 about things that affect your audience, like housing, NHS, climate…” (33:03-34:10)
• Konstantin’s Defense: He challenges the methodology (“Have you watched the videos or just scanned titles?”). Jimmy admits he did not watch the vast majority, mostly analyzed titles for buzzwords.
• They argue repeatedly about the relative importance of “culture war” topics, with Jimmy insisting material concerns matter more to the public, and Konstantin rebutting with examples of prior coverage and book chapters on those issues.
  • “When was the last time we did an interview about trans? A very long time ago. Would you like to know why?” (38:53-39:01)

4. Net Zero and Economic Debates

• The interview touches on UK energy prices, privatization, the cost of net zero, and neoliberalism.
• Jimmy argues that Britain’s high costs are chiefly due to failed privatization rather than green policy, and criticizes Konstantin for not engaging with the “material” explanations in depth.
  • “The reason everything is screwed up is neoliberal economics…started in ‘79, Thatcher gets elected…continued under Blair.” (22:06-23:02)
• Repeated, heated exchange on the costs vs. savings of net zero:
  • Konstantin: “Net zero is estimated in Britain at 1.5 trillion…that’s quite a lot of money.”
  • Jimmy: “But it’ll save people money in the long run.” When asked “how much?” — “Probably, you could find the answer to that.” (51:16-54:15)
  • Konstantin criticizes Jimmy's lack of specifics and charges him with “grifting” by making unfounded economic claims.

5. ‘Grifter’ Accusations and Fact-Checking

• Konstantin presses Jimmy on jokes/claims made about him in “Rise of the Middle Class Grifter.”
  • “You show a picture of me and say people like me end up defending Enoch Powell. When have I done that?” (55:18-56:03)
    • Jimmy: “It’s a joke, isn’t it?”
  • “You said people like me remain strangely silent when Trump tried his coup — is that serious?” (56:45-58:23)
    • Jimmy initially maintains seriousness, then admits he never heard Konstantin discuss January 6th; Konstantin points out he did — the very next day, on record.
  • After being pressed, Jimmy concedes: “Yeah, I should probably have looked more at the things you said…probably didn’t understand your channel very well.” (61:47)

6. Self-Reflective and Meta Moments

• Mutual Acknowledgements of Grifting:

  • Konstantin repeatedly suggests that by Jimmy’s own definition, Jimmy is also a grifter: “You’re giving me a good example of what a grifter does — throw out claims, can’t back them up…” (54:26)
  • In the end:
    • Konstantin: “By your definition, are you a grifter?”
    • Jimmy: “Massively.” (74:55-75:01)
    • Konstantin (deadpan): “I think we can leave it there.” (75:01)

• Memorable admission:

  • “Jimmy, do you think this is going well for you?”
    Jimmy: “Terribly.” (69:24-69:26)

7. The Limits of Online Discourse

• The episode becomes a case study in the circular, defensive, and at times bad-faith nature of online culture war conversations.
  • Each party accuses the other of focusing on “the wrong issues” and engaging in shallow “outrage” content for clicks and status.
  • Multiple moments of both mutual and self-directed irony:
    • Jimmy: “I think we’re all playing into a dumb thing here…” (28:09)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Jimmy the Giant:

  • “I realized I had a lot of advantages that I didn’t even consider advantages…” (11:21)
  • “A grifter — someone who effectively sells bullshit… outrage and reactionary content.” (28:57)
  • “I looked through about 222 videos and I put them in two categories: cultural topics and material topics…” (33:03)
  • “You’re good at this.”
    Konstantin: “I know I am.”
    Jimmy: “You’re very good at this.” (31:51-31:54)
  • “You know what you’re doing and it’s deeper, bro.” (33:40)
  • Jimmy asks himself: “Am I a grifter? Massively.” (74:55)

• Konstantin Kisin:

  • “Have you watched any of the videos you’re critiquing? No? You’re commenting on something you haven’t watched.” (32:38)
  • “You made a video in which you made a bunch of false claims – your defense is what?” (62:58)
  • “Are you going to withdraw that video? Take it down?”
    Jimmy: “No, no, no.”
    Konstantin: “So you’re going to keep lies up there on the internet about other people?” (72:52-73:06)
  • “You really have come here with talking points. You’re not able to go beyond them, are you?”
    Jimmy: “No, no, definitely not.” (72:41)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jimmy’s Background & Political Journey: 02:54 – 11:21
• Grifter Definition & Content Focus Debate: 27:37 – 35:04
• Trans Topics, Culture War, and Titles Analysis: 33:03 – 41:54
• Privatization, Neoliberalism, and Net Zero Debate: 22:06 – 26:25, 50:07 – 54:15
• Fact-Checking The Grifter Video & Accusations: 54:50 – 62:28
• Final Admission and Meta-Reflection: 74:49 – 75:01

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Tone & Dynamics

• The conversation is confrontational and occasionally testy, especially as Konstantin systematically dismantles unsupported claims Jimmy makes about TRIGGERnometry.
• There are flashes of humor and self-deprecation punctuating the debate:
  • Jimmy: “You’re good at this.”
  • Konstantin: “Do you think this is going well for you?”
    Jimmy: “Terribly.”
• Both are self-aware about the farcical quality of the “grifter wars,” but neither is willing to back off their foundational criticisms entirely.

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Conclusion

This episode is a deep dive into the mechanics of online critique, YouTube “grifting,” and the distinctions (and confusions) between cultural and material politics. It vividly illustrates the hazards of issuing public claims without firsthand knowledge, and is self-referential about the circularity of such debates. The conversation ends with both host and guest recognizing the performativity—and the irony—in their mutual, if reluctant, admissions of “grifting” behaviors within the modern internet landscape.

Transcript

[Constantine Kisin]

You made a video called the Rise of the Middle Class Grifter in which I feature quite prominently. When have I said that? The fall of the West. Or we've done a video to say that the fall of the west is because of feminism.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I have no idea.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, you just said that. Are you not aware that there are many, many different types of feminism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's like super feminism, super duper feminism.

[Constantine Kisin]

How much is net zero gonna cost?

[Jimmy the Giant]

What do you mean?

[Constantine Kisin]

How much will net zero cost?

[Jimmy the Giant]

But you know it's going to save money.

[Constantine Kisin]

You just said it's going to make us money. You don't know how much. Okay, cool. We'll leave it there. When have I said I'm a product, Donald Trump? You just keep saying these things.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I clearly don't understand your channel very well.

[Constantine Kisin]

You've made the claim that I defend Enoch Powell. When have I done that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't know. You tell me. It was a joke, wasn't it?

[Constantine Kisin]

And then you say, but they remain strangely silent. When Donald Trump tried to coup the American government, did I remain strangely silent?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I haven't really heard you talk about it.

[Constantine Kisin]

You really have come here with talking points. You're not able to go beyond them, are you?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, definitely not.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm asking you, by your definition, are you a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Massively.

[Constantine Kisin]

Jimmy, do you think this is going well for you?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Terribly.

[Constantine Kisin]

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[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I Can't remember which face you were. You were in the front.

[Constantine Kisin]

I was my face.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, Douglas was the front.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right. And then I was. I think I'm to the left of Douglas, which is accurate. So I wanted to have you on to talk about it because you said some things in that that I wanted to explore. But first, most people watching this from our audience, what won't be familiar with you. So tell me a little bit about you. You're on YouTube, you're called Jimmy the Giant. You've got. You're approaching 700,000 subscribers, which is great. So tell me about how that channel came about, what you've been doing.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, it was kind of like, firstly, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. It was kind of like originally I made Parkour videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

Parkour is like jumping from building to building.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. I spent most of my, like, up until probably like 25, I think I spent most of my life just thinking about parkour and I realized I got a very obsessive personality because how I treated parkour is how I treat like park politics and stuff. But yeah, I used to just travel around the country, around the world, I guess mainly Europe, but we say the world sounds more impressive. And yeah, just did like parkour. And I did it for a long period of time, tried to make like a clothing brand because back then the only way of making money in parkour was even being good at it, which I wasn't. Or selling clothes which you couldn't make money on, but we all deluded ourselves. Or you'd be like a coach or something like that. And that's where the actual money is. But no one wants to do that.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's like a pyramid scheme.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's basically a Ponzi scheme.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And it's really interesting. Park was super interesting. It had a real big moment in the 2000 and tens. And that was kind of when I come into. It seemed like there was money to be made back then because Hollywood was obsessed with parkour. And then it all dried up and basically we were left with like the YouTube avenue. So I went down doing like a clothing brand. And it was super niche. Like I was making sort of satirical self referential, like meta jokes about parkour, which is a niche within a very small niche already. And I eventually, like, I had this brand and I was trying to do like, this is where I was kind of right winging out. Not say that like setting up a business is right wing, but I was definitely consuming lots of like, go out, make the business, do the Hustle, bro. Shit. And I was like really determined to make some money out of it. And eventually it kind of like fell apart. Me and my friends kind of fell apart because, you know, we turned something we all loved, that was our connection, and we turned it into like a business. And that sort of put strain it. But eventually that stopped. And then I moved into YouTube. So I had this idea to make like a documentary about the rise and fall of this original, like Parkour brand. And it had like a lot of drama, a lot of like. Yeah, controversy and stuff. And it just went viral, like million views. I was making videos that would get 5,000 views max. And I got a million views followed this. Started doing videos about Parkour specifically. These were like video essays. So what stood me out was I didn't do videos about like me and my bros training. I was like, why this jump is the coolest jump ever done. And then I followed that, eventually hit a roadblock because there's only so much you can talk about Parkour. And then I went into extreme sports and at some point I had the idea to make a video about Chavs. Like, chav culture. Did you grow. You grew up in the uk like, you grew up. So you were here in the 2000s?

[Constantine Kisin]

Yes.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So Chav culture, I was like, if your audience American, some of them will be like, chubs were kind of our, I guess, gangsters. How would you describe it?

[Constantine Kisin]

Like, no, I wouldn't say gangsters. They were.

[Jimmy the Giant]

They were lower than gangsters.

[Constantine Kisin]

They were a subculture of the lower working class, you might say, who were associated with scienty social behavior. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And it was a lot of like our media would sell, like we would talk about a lot in the 2000s. It was kind of this. A lot of comedy around it. Whatever.

[Constantine Kisin]

I lived in. I lived in Scotland in the time. And they have their own word for it.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Ned.

[Constantine Kisin]

Ned is one, but they have another one which is schemes, because they're from housing schemes and they have a particular dress and a particular way of behaving. You can see someone from that subculture a mile away.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is it even different to like London or, you know, like the Burberry Chav? So.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, Burberry is definitely involved. Yeah, heavily involved, yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Where. Where in Scotland was this?

[Constantine Kisin]

Was it Edinburgh?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Edinburgh. Okay. All right, interesting.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you did a video about chavs.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, video about chavs. So I basically become politicized from this video without realizing it. So in that video, I sort of. I was very right wing at the time and I was Watching it. And in my mind and in my memory and in my experience of life, Chavs were just the shit kid at school. So it was like the dickhead who everyone hated. And they were bullies, they were tough. Like, they would fight you and I would always fight them. I was always getting into fights in school. And I just made a video on it, but I tried to really just analyze it. So, like, I obviously had my biases going into it of what I would have thought it was. And I was just researching, so I was just, like, reading about the phenomena of Chubs, where it came from, and I started to learn, like, about, I guess, what you would call in politics or whatever you call it, like, material factors that led to the creation of the CHAB underclass, and how it wasn't necessarily just bad people doing bad shit, but really it was like a combination of factors of housing, deindustrialization, loads of factors. And it was Owen Jones that kind of like, put me onto it. So it was. I was going through his videos and it was Owen Jones. And I remember watching it being like, fuck, I can't watch. I can't. I can't credit Owen Jones in one of my videos. I can't do that. So I even said in the videos, I don't like Owen Jones. But what he has to say about Chavs is quite interesting. Let's listen.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, that's kind of how he broke through with that book. It was called Chavs.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

And that's really how he became well known.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. And it was great work. It was very good work. It was good. Like, I watched mainly him talking about.

[Constantine Kisin]

It and you say you were very right wing. What does that mean to me?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I guess. Yeah, I said I did. That video was called, like, How I Escape the Alt Right Pipeline. And people would critique the phrasing of that because alt right is a specific, you know, sort of. Yeah, I guess you would call it, like, Jewish.

[Constantine Kisin]

We'll talk about the video because it's an interesting video, but I want to specifically, at that point, I was kind.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Of a hustle bro, sort of libertarian. Go out, make your money. The world won't give you anything. You need to just work hard and make money. And I followed it and I succeeded. So, like, realistically, I followed that path and it worked for me.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And there was a period of time. So let's carry on with the videos for, like, maybe getting on politics, I suppose.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no. The reason you said at the time when you did that video about Chavs, you were very Right wing. I just want to understand what that means is like yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. Was it that that focus on like success, go get a meritocracy. Okay. And it worked for you?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It worked for me. And it really, the interesting thing is. Cause I would look at other people from even similar backgrounds to me that had the same opportunities as me that didn't take them and didn't succeed. And so I came to this conclusion. Well, what set me apart was that I am fundamentally harder working more I guess creative or like more. I don't know what it was I, I sort of had and I would recognize it now as a kind of judgment to people who aren't exactly like me. And in that time I believe that society should function in the way that rewards those people who are the best, the brightest, whatever, with money, etc. And I would kind of then ignore what happens to the other people that aren't as great as me, you know. And so that was kind of my political thinking was everyone can just work harder. Everyone can just kind of go out and do their best, go to the gym, make themselves interesting. And my life became a product of that because I kind of did all the things that when I was a young 13 year old lad I would have dreamed of. I did all of that and it was from my own work. And then as time went by I started to realize, well I did have some factors that went into that success that I had no control over. And just coming from like a family that owned that. Well they didn't own the house but they had a house, you know, it was, they had a mortgage on a house and a stable family, two parents always in the house. My mum was able to spend most of my childhood just at home raising me. Like these are sounds like very basic stuff, but these are massive privileges because.

[Constantine Kisin]

Big conservative talking points for sure.

[Jimmy the Giant]

For sure. These are things like society. And this is where I guess like a lot of this dynamic gets lost. A lot with like the left and right dynamic is a lot of the time we agree on like what people need and what they want and how society should build around. Like I'm a massive believer in families. Like I think a family structure is a brilliant thing. However, I guess a lot of the time we disagree on how you get there. So. So I think we need to help people create families and I believe that that needs a layer of support from the state and that society needs to chip in together to help people, give them the opportunities. But yeah, like I just started to realize I had a lot of advantages that even when I was younger, I didn't even kind of consider them advantages because there were other people with a lot more advantages than me. So like I just literally had a small house. Like a small. Is it like Victorian row? You know, no garden. Our garden was probably like the size of this. I went to like a slightly better school, so my parents got inheritance. That's a privilege, you know, they got like 10 grand or whatever from my. From some relatives, sent me to like a little middle class school. Everyone was fucking rich as shit. I became the like rough kid, I guess.

[Constantine Kisin]

You were the chav.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I was the chav in that school. It was mad. And then, yeah, I just sort of had stability and that's what I realized. Like I had stability and then I was able to take those opportunities. Right. So it wasn't that I was fundamentally better. I do have some skills other people don't have and life rewarded me, but I could have had these exact same skills but not had that stability and maybe my outcomes would have been very different. Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

And then you made. One of the videos that you made was about the. You call it, I think it's called how you. How I escaped the Alt Right Pipeline and in which you talk about the fact, as you say you were quite right wing, whatever that means. Exactly. You were watching a lot of right wing content creators. You were following Jordan Peterson in particular quite a lot.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

And then you, you don't correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. You slowly became aware that there were a lot of holes in some of the things you were being told, particularly when you discovered people like Owen Jones and Yanis Varoufakis.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Owen Jones didn't make a massive chunk of my political understanding. So he was just someone who sort of opened the, the door. So. Because it challenged a. I always noticed with the chat thing, it was because it was something that isn't right now, politicized. So because he was talking about, I mean, because it was years ago, it was a topic I could approach very absent of like a bias. So I mean I had my growing up bias, but it wasn't like I'm listening to Jordan Peterson tell me about Chavs right now and I'm building my worldview on Chavs right now. It's an old topic, so you can kind of step away and analyze it like a bit more sober. So yeah, it was just that flicked the understanding and I started to. Because what I did really from that video, it was just I needed a video to make and I was like, I Think I needed an extra video for the month because I took another sponsor and I was like, well, I have this idea about Chavs. I want to do it. My audience, extreme sports audience, probably. It's not going to work. I'll just do it and see how it does. And it work.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, you're still talking about the chat video. Yeah, because I was already on the. Right, okay, sorry.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, Well, I guess because I'm talking about sort of the line of. So Owen Jones only opened that, but it was later through that I do the challenge video and I start doing these subculture videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right, right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Where I go through, like the skinheads. I learn about punk, National Front, I learned about Thatcher, I learned about all this stuff. And I had my opinions on Thatcher before, but they were quite like. I didn't really uninformed. They're pretty uninformed.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And the more I learned about it, I just started doing this exploration of subcultures and it led me to being really fascinated by, like, what happened in the 70s. Like, 70s was a weird period of. In the UK and it fundamentally changed everything and a lot of the stuff we're seeing right now or as a direct result of decisions made back then. So I wanted to learn more about this period and I discovered stuff like, yeah, Yanis Varoufakis talking about neoliberalism. George.

[Constantine Kisin]

Guardian writer.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Guardian boy. Proper, proper wokey. But he. He done a whole book called like, something. The Hidden Ideology or something.

[Constantine Kisin]

So what? Neoliberalism seems to feature heavily the realizations that you have. What is neoliberalism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's effectively like a understanding of economics that is kind of built from, to be honest, like Pre World War I, World War II ideology. So it's laissez faire economics where the belief is that if you give rich people loads of money and you make it very easy for rich people to operate, the benefits of that, give them.

[Constantine Kisin]

Loads of money or allow them.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You allow them to create loads of wealth through their hard work and their valiant efforts. Not through inheritance, not for, you know, but everything. If you allow them to accrue lots of wealth, this wealth will trickle down to the poorest members of society. And that's like the ideology of neoliberalism. It led us to going from a sort of nation that had, I think, 20% of the wealth in the nation was owned by the government. And then now we're in a point where minus 20% of the wealth is owned by the government, which might sound confusing, but it's because we now rent off of the private sector and we rent back all the things that we paid with tax money to build. We now rent off of Australian companies, American companies. We rent to use it for our railway, et cetera. So we've gone this ideology and we in Britain specifically were the most extreme in this. So even America still owns certain public goods that we sold to private nations. And we are, especially with Europe. Everyone went through this neoliberal revolution because there were some merits to some of the ideas. It just went too far. In Europe, it seemed that they kept more control over some of these forces which Britain went full ideology. Privatization. Privatization. Privatization. They would call it like supply side economics. So you believe. I believe this. Right. If I'm not mistaken, my terms is that the understanding of how you make a function site is make the suppliers of wealth wealthier as opposed. And that will drive economic growth as opposed to demand side, which would be make customers and consumers wealthier and they will buy more things. So we went down, we went on this experiment and there's a ton of videos if you type in like Britain's failed privatization experiment, where we are a complete anomaly. And so when we're going through our lives and we see that our like train tickets are more expensive, our water's really low quality, that we're paying more than anyone else our energy bills, and we're trying to find answers to that. You cannot answer that without looking at the fact that we've privatized all of these things and they've all got worser and worse.

[Constantine Kisin]

I mean, our energy bills are high because of the net zero policies that government.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, all right, so this is getting a book out. Okay, so what sort of research have you actually done into like renewables specifically?

[Constantine Kisin]

I've done quite a lot of research and we've had a number of people on the show, most recently Matt Ridley, who we talked to about. And I don't know if you caught that episode.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't want to.

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't want to get into this part of it right now. I was just throwing that out.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But you can't, you can't throw away and run it. You start throwing a grade and run away. Because that's a big point.

[Constantine Kisin]

No problem. I'll take it back. And let's just pretend I never said anything.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So I can't do that.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah, you can, because I don't want to go down this rabbit hole because it's very important.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And that feels like a bit of a you'. Your audience will now take.

[Constantine Kisin]

In fact, we'll cut it out.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, we'll cut out.

[Constantine Kisin]

The reason I'm saying this, I don't want to get bogged down in this particular conversation about energy prices. It's not really relevant.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It is very relevant if you want to answer. If I'm trying to make my case that privatization has caused our cost of living to be higher than everyone else. Fine, okay, let me continue.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no, no, let's not continue. Because I don't want to get bogged down on this part of the conversation.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's cowardly.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's nothing to do with cowardice.

[Jimmy the Giant]

A little bit cowardly.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's nothing to do with cowardice.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

A little bit.

[Jimmy the Giant]

If you can't engage on that topic.

[Constantine Kisin]

You gotta let me finish the point I'm making before you call it cowardly.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Please. A little bit. A little bit. Tiny bit. It's a little bit.

[Constantine Kisin]

You gotta let me finish what I'm saying before you call it cowardly. So it's not that I don't want to have this discussion. It's that this discussion is not the reason I brought you on the channel. Right. I brought you on to talk about the video you made in which you called me and a bunch of other people middle class grifters. Right. And I'm just exploring your perspective before we get into that. Now, I agree with you. I shouldn't have jumped in with my opinion. Which is why I offer either for us to edit it or for us to forget I ever said anything. Right. Because I don't want to go down this sidetrack and spend 20 minutes on that because we don't have the time. Are you happy with that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Not necessarily. I would. I think it's very important to talk about.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm sure. No, no, I don't disagree. I think it's an important conversation, just not for this particular discussion.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay. If I can trade. If I can trade. Someone you should speak to.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And you commit to speaking to that person.

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't commit to speaking to anybody, but you can definitely give me a name.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, cool.

[Constantine Kisin]

So who is it?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No. Justice mtg.

[Constantine Kisin]

No justice mtg. Who's that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Streamer.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, cool. I'll look into the streamer. Would you like us to retain the section or to remove it?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, keep it.

[Constantine Kisin]

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[Constantine Kisin]

Carry on. The reason is neoliberal economics. The reason everything is screwed up in the country. And neoliberal economics happened when.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, it was sort of a process. It started in 79. Thatcher gets elected. Throughout the 80s we go down a route of privatization, deregulation. We had lots of heavy laws to restrict what finance sector could do. We had lots of public ownership over things that we considered public utilities because we didn't believe the free market was going to benefit them. So through the 70s and then continued under Blair, who is, I would argue worse than Thatcher. He. Because he normalized the ideology deeper and he took it further and then it just continued ever since. We haven't, we haven't reversed any of it. We haven't renationalized. We've. You could argue Starmer is slowly renationalizing, but it's not like we still live under that system.

[Constantine Kisin]

And would you say that overall things were better before Thatcher was elected? You're talking.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I mean, it depends how you want to look it. Obviously they didn't have iPhones, they didn't have.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I don't mean like that child.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Poverty was about 10 to 15% through the period of like the 50s to the 70s as opposed to like 30% dipped down to about 25 to 30 now. So like I measuring child poverty is probably quite a good way of looking at society.

[Constantine Kisin]

One factor definitely.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I don't know, like economic growth through the period of Keynesian economics, which is the period, post war period sustained economic growth, growth that helped everyone. So obviously you'll still see growth from like the 90s, but this was growth via the financial sector, asset speculation and risky plays from the bankers that ended up collapsing the entire economy and destroying everything in 2008. And it's kind of exactly why we're here right now, like where we're at politically. So I would say that period of time for when it was coming out of the industrial era saw alarming growth that had never been seen in the history of humanity, for working class ordinary people at rates that have never been met since in Britain.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you aware of what was happening in the 70s in this country?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you familiar with like the Winter of Discontent?

[Jimmy the Giant]

The Winter of Discontent.

[Constantine Kisin]

Britain being the sick man of Europe?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. So where this happens is 1973, we have an oil crisis. So Iran, is it the Yamakopur War?

[Constantine Kisin]

What is it Yom Kippur.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, Yom Kippur war. So that kicks off and we're supplying arms to Israel and you know, because they're allies since the war, etc. We supply arms to Israel, OPEC, who controls the oil supply, they jack up prices of energy by about is it four times. I think it went insane. So oil prices overnight just went insane. And so that's going to have knock on effects to inflation. There was this decision made by, I think it was Teddy, I can't remember the name of the Prime Minister but Ted Heath. Ted Heath. And he had agreed with the unions that if inflation rises so too do their payments because he didn't predict that inflation was going to rise. And so the unions rightly had agreed to this situation and they would should have been getting paid. What they were arguing for in this period of time was for their payment to be kept up with inflation. People saw this as greedy because we're in an era of like public turmoil. Everyone's, everything's. And they're arguing for a pay increase. So everyone sort of thought, well this was the message and was like we should all take a, you know, we should all take this on our shoulders, we should all suffer. But you know, they were kind of entitled to the agreement they, they agreed on. And then you had this whole period where everything went fucking insane. Inflation went through the roof, cost of living went through the roof and people. We had like three. It was proposed to have three day work weeks, lights being turned on. It was a crazy period of time.

[Constantine Kisin]

And that was solely because of the oil increase.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Big part of it. But it's also their combination of factors at the same time. So.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah, but it wasn't to do with how the country was being managed or governed or anything like that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You could argue, maybe you could argue to be honest, like global, our involvements in the Middle east. You could argue definitely that that has an effect on our economy. And there will for sure be policies that if we're in a period of high inflation that public spend probably will struggle to keep up with. But this is more management as opposed to ideology and principles on economics.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, how you manage things is dependent on your.

[Jimmy the Giant]

If the execution of an idea is poor, doesn't mean the idea is poor. So if Keynesian economics works for a period of time, until the Bretton woods system collapsed, which we had no control over, that was the Americans. So the Americans, the whole global financial order was underpinned by the dollar which was agreed to always represent a certain amount of gold. But then America started Printing out a fuckload of money so that they could go to war with Vietnam. And that meant that the dollar got devalued and then there was like a run on the gold. So people wanted to like, get their gold back. America didn't have gold supply, so then they cut the dollar to gold link, which creates financial chaos, the Nixon shock. And so you have these, all these factors, they're all going insane. And then someone comes along and goes, you know what it is? It was because we were trying to help the poor people. It's because society's become lazy because we've made a nanny state that wants to protect everyone and everyone should really go out and just protect themselves. And it was a really potent message and it worked. And it elected Thatcher and it's led to the system we're in now, which doesn't seem to work for working people. It seems like the average person suffers under this scenario.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so that's kind of your, your political journey and talking. So you made this video called the Rise of the Middle Class Grifter, in which you feature. I'm trying to think of the top of my head. Douglas Murray, Neil Sir, Neil Ferguson, me, some online creators like Carl Benjamin and Paul Joseph Watson. So what is a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's a good question. I think I realized that we will do this thing left and right. And I think we're, we're all kind of playing into a dumb thing here. And I kind of realized one of the main critiques I had in that video was effectively play the idea not the man or something like that. Or play the man not the ball. What's the expression?

[Constantine Kisin]

Play the ball, not the man.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. And so people were saying I was critiquing people as opposed to their ideas, which I think is a fair critique.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I've got no problem with that, people. And yeah, if you are a public person, people will criticize you. It's natural.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But I think.

[Constantine Kisin]

But what?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I think the.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm just asking what a grifter is.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I think what. There we get what was.

[Constantine Kisin]

What's a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I think what I, I'm, I was doing was calling people grifters if I disagree with them. And you guys do the same where you call us woke indoctrinating libs. And I think it was playing in, to be honest, to a pretty reductive way of looking at politics. So instead of.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you taking it back? Is that what you're saying?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, I think you're a grifter, but I don't think it's productive.

[Constantine Kisin]

So what is a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's someone who effectively sells bullshit. Like a snake or salesman, who, instead of genuinely engaging with topics, they see that outrage, sales and reactionary content sells. And if I follow that, I'll make lots of money. Doesn't mean.

[Constantine Kisin]

Doesn't mean.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Doesn't mean that they don't believe in these ideas. It doesn't mean that they don't think that really some of the best grifters are true believers who really believe in their shit. I really think Russell Brand really believes everything he says.

[Constantine Kisin]

That's one area we disagree on.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But you think Russell Brand is like, lying, like, you think he does?

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't think he's a liar, but from having spoken to people who. Who know. Yeah, he is not remote.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you think Alex Jones is a liar? You think he really believes? I.

[Constantine Kisin]

But, but hold on a second. If. If someone is just saying their opinion.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

That you don't agree with, that makes them a grifter.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I think if your job is. You're a political pundit, you're a political podcast. If your job is to follow politics. And like, I went through your channel, like, I was sort of analyzing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Can we just stick with the definition of grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. Someone who sells outrage monetizes it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Wait, what if someone just says their opinion about things that they are not happy with? Like, for example, if someone thinks that, I don't know, the rape of British girls by grooming guys, I would say.

[Jimmy the Giant]

A grifter, I would say. So if we look at your channel, I look through like about 200, 222 videos, and I put them in two categories. So I put them as cultural topics and material topics. So a culture war topic would be topics like trans woke, diversity, Di. The west, like, you know, the fall of the West.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The left.

[Constantine Kisin]

That's a cultural topic.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Migrants. It depends how you frame it. For sure, if the fall of the west is because of feminist. For sure that's cultural.

[Constantine Kisin]

When. When have we done a video that. The Fall.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You have loads of videos called the west or something?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no, hold on a second.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay. Okay, so let's.

[Constantine Kisin]

Hold on, hold on a second. When have we done a video saying that the fall of the west is because of feminism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't know.

[Constantine Kisin]

You just said that. When have we done a video.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You trying to reject this concept here? So what I'm looking for. Jimmy, listen, remove the West.

[Constantine Kisin]

This is going to work a lot better if you listen to what I'm Saying. And then respond to it. So you just said that we've done videos, including about the west, which is a culture war topic. And I said, why is it a culture war topic? And you said, well, it is if you say it's because of feminism. When have you.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Typically I.

[Constantine Kisin]

When have we. Hold on, let me.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Typically, it'll be the full.

[Constantine Kisin]

You got to listen to the question and then answer.

[Jimmy the Giant]

For sure.

[Constantine Kisin]

When? So listen to the question and answer it. When have I said that? The. The fall of the west, or we've done a video to say that the fall of the west is because of feminism.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I have no idea.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, you just said that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, I said that you've done 22 videos that have the West.

[Constantine Kisin]

You said 222. But. But we've never. We've never said that because of feminism.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I didn't say you did 222 videos about the West.

[Constantine Kisin]

When have we said it's because of feminism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I'm not.

[Constantine Kisin]

But you just said that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Have you ever done.

[Constantine Kisin]

No.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You're good at this.

[Constantine Kisin]

I know I am.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You're very good at this.

[Constantine Kisin]

Doing that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't engage with what we're talking about. You're framing.

[Constantine Kisin]

You just said that the west being in decline is a culture war topic. I asked you why I don't consider that a culture war topic. That's a very real topic.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, so I'll just concede it. You can have it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Great.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, so 2022 videos on the West. Three of them were neutral. So, like, not saying the decline, the fall.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The left, 28, vaccine, 7, all of which are skeptic. Migrants, 26, all of which are negative and liberal. I'll give you migrants, because migrants isn't a cultural topic. And we can talk about migrants more so liberal. 16. And there was a major pivot in 2425 where you started talking use liberals a lot. So that is 207 videos that I would conduct. I would. I would deduct as being reactionary.

[Constantine Kisin]

How many of them have you watched?

[Jimmy the Giant]

So none of them.

[Constantine Kisin]

None of them. Oh, you haven't watched any.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, I've definitely watched some, but I haven't, like, watched all 220.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you're commenting on something you haven't watched.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you remember when I said sales outrage to get views.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So what I've analyzed by are words that are used in titles. So you've deducted that if I put the word trans 53 times. Yeah. You will get more clicks because we're YouTubers, we understand you Use words.

[Constantine Kisin]

How do you know that that's what.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I can click do? You don't do clickbait. You don't play the algorithm.

[Constantine Kisin]

Have you not noticed that we don't do clickbait?

[Jimmy the Giant]

What do you mean? YouTubers.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so. So you're saying you do?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, okay, yeah. Why? Why do you think when I do.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The evil decline of the council estate, it's because I'm trying to get views and I'm trying to get people to click on. Yeah, well, so when you do the kind of. Okay, so let me finish the point. Material video. So five.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no, let's not finish the point.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no. If you don't let me make my point, there's no point.

[Constantine Kisin]

You did make your point.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, I haven't. No, I haven't.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I have. You said that we do clickbait. You said that we do clickbait.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Let's just think you're not a grifter if you're not going to let someone finish the entire argument. No, you know, you know what you're doing and it's deeper, bro.

[Constantine Kisin]

You have as much time as you want.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, okay, so you won't let me finish my point because I was like gaining a bit of steam there.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's not so material videos.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You did 15 videos on material reality, which is things like costs of living, inequality, NHS climate, health. You have done 15 videos. 93% of your videos are reactionary, whereas 15 are about things that affect your audience. The fact that they're never going to afford a house, that the NHS is fucked. Your audience don't get hear that from you because you would rather talk 50 free videos on trends.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm glad you brought that up.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And if we look at, if we look at polling data and what these people care about, they care about housing, they care about the economy, they about care when it comes to trans. IT polls are under 1%. It's like the tiniest thing people give a shit about. But it's the largest topic that you make videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's not the largest topic.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It is. If you go through those videos, 53 of which are about trans.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And you talk about it fucking endlessly.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you done?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, no, I'll keep going. No, nothing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, you are done.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, one more, go ahead. No, I'm not done.

[Constantine Kisin]

One more, go ahead. Karon, you're not done.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Done.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're done. Okay, that was great. Right, so there's a few things you said in there and the reason I was interrupting you is I wanted to address them one at a time as opposed to this, like, wall of text.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But you get the point, right? You focus on reactionary culture wars topics. I do get way disproportionate to material things that affect your audience's lives.

[Constantine Kisin]

I understand the point.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you made a number of points. That's one of them. Right. Now, first of all, on the culture war and feminism thing, because we didn't finish that. We have never made a war.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, for sure. Probably not.

[Constantine Kisin]

Probably not.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, definitely not. You'd never do that.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. Super pro feminists.

[Constantine Kisin]

In what way?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't know. You like feminism?

[Constantine Kisin]

What kind of. What kind of feminism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't know. What kinds are there?

[Constantine Kisin]

There are lots of types of feminism. What do you mean? Go on. Are you not aware that there are many, many different types of feminism?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's like super feminism. Super duper feminism or.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, there. There are. There are all sorts of types of feminism.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Which ones?

[Constantine Kisin]

You're pro feminism, Depending on how you define feminism. Absolutely. Yes.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Smash it. It's good.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you surprised by this?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No. I think you strike me as a feminist.

[Constantine Kisin]

What does that mean?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Like, I think you love women. I'm just. It. I don't know, just playing around, so.

[Constantine Kisin]

Playing around? I don't understand what you mean.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I just said super duper feminism. You can probably deduct on joking.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so. But you. You seem to be implying something like you're surprised that I'm in favor of certain type of feminism. Like you're surprised.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I'm sure you. You appreciate women in the workforce. Maybe. I don't know.

[Constantine Kisin]

You just like, who's a woman?

[Jimmy the Giant]

If you're trying to get to my argument. I don't have an argument. You're anti feminist. It was sort of a. A general joke.

[Constantine Kisin]

Based on what?

[Jimmy the Giant]

The whole super duper feminism.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no. But what you implied earlier, that we do videos.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Saying that the west is in decline. And when I asked you why that's a culture war issue, you said something about the west is in decline.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Because I thought I conceded that.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right? Yeah. Okay, so let's just address that first and foremost.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right.

[Constantine Kisin]

We've never done a video saying that the west is about the decline of feminism.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I conceded that point.

[Constantine Kisin]

And the reason is that there are many different feminism. We have had a very large number.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Why are we talking about feminism? The way you frame the topic.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did I let you finish your point?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, now let me finish mine. The reason that I'm picking up on the feminist thing is that most of the videos about the issue of transgender ideology have been with feminists who've come on the show to talk about their concerns.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you think 53. Your 53 of your main videos, the bulk. The biggest topic you talk about is. Is trans. Do you think that when was the last. Or do you think that your audience thinks about trans that same amount?

[Constantine Kisin]

When was the last video we did about trans?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I have no clue.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Probably.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is it, a year ago? When did you stop talking about it?

[Constantine Kisin]

You tell me you've done the research.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Is your channel.

[Constantine Kisin]

I know it's my channel. So when do you. So you're come. You. You've come here with a list of things that we've done. When was the last time you don't.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Talk 53 videos about trans?

[Constantine Kisin]

That's not what I said.

[Jimmy the Giant]

In a time of economic crisis where the billionaires are doubling their wealth, where people can't afford housing. You didn't make 53 videos about trans.

[Constantine Kisin]

Jimmy, you don't seem to be answering the question.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So what's the question?

[Constantine Kisin]

The question was, when was the last time we did a video about trans?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I have no idea.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay. Would you like to know why we haven't done a video about trans for a long time?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Didn't you do one? It was like, Lord had no scorn, but a woman burned or something about J.K. rowling. Wasn't that like Lord had no.

[Constantine Kisin]

What.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What was the one about J.K. rowling? It was something like, she's there smoking a big cigar. The trans. We won the trans debate. Wasn't that like. It was probably a couple months ago.

[Constantine Kisin]

When was it we won the trans. I've never done a video called we won the trans debate.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You did a video on the change in criteria of what is a woman. That was like three, four months ago.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right? We've.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You didn't make a video about the J.K. rowling thing when the whole change of definition of.

[Constantine Kisin]

I did an article, so I did a monologue about that. So in terms of three months. So I'm asking you when.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Three, four months.

[Constantine Kisin]

When was the last time we did an interview about the trans things? A very long time ago. Would you like to know why?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, go on.

[Constantine Kisin]

Would you like to know?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

So Francis and I, when we came across this issue, we realized that what was happening in this era was really very disturbing. And we became very concerned about what was happening to children, what was happening to autistic children, what was happening to gay kids, et cetera. And we interviewed A lot of people to try and understand what was happening. That's why we delved into that issue quite a bit.

[Jimmy the Giant]

53 videos, right.

[Constantine Kisin]

And the reason we did that is we really are quite concerned about the fact that children are having their genitals removed.

[Jimmy the Giant]

50 free videos. Yeah, I think economic collapse. 53 videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

You know, I think having their genitals surgically removed or being given puberty blockers that sterilize.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What's the percentage that that happens? Who is the percentage of trans people? How, how many people does this affect? Do you think it affects your 53? Like just, just from a pure logical perspective, your audience probably doesn't deeply give a shit about that. Compared to housing, that seems compared to cost of living.

[Constantine Kisin]

We can talk about several things at once.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But you talk about 50. You've made your last videos that were on housing were five to six years ago. All of the videos that's actual. But it is, but in the title. Sorry, you probably.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right, so you haven't watched any videos that we've done. What is the future of interest rates and the housing market in this country, in your opinion? The cost of housing is so high.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That the homelessness has just gone through the roof.

[Constantine Kisin]

The reason we have a housing crisis is the government cannot afford to let housing prices stop rising.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

People can't see a way out of a rental situation where the housing market.

[Constantine Kisin]

Is completely fucked on purpose and they refuse to fix it. You know, many instances now of housing.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And unless young people can get access to property and the housing ladder, they're going to reject democracy.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So we know in Britain, for example.

[Constantine Kisin]

Housing is very expensive.

[Jimmy the Giant]

We've talked about before getting on the housing ladder, owning property.

[Constantine Kisin]

We talked about the housing crisis. We can talk more about that if you want. And I wonder if you think that the economic circumstances facing young people, the extraordinary price of housing, for example, the inability therefore to own property, like me. Right. Have absolutely no personal short term incentive to see that problem fixed.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

When you look at issues like housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

You want to make it harder for them. You want to make it harder for them to get on the housing ladder. The situation with housing in this country, which for young people is absolutely atrocious.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What about the housing crisis? You did a video about Zoran Mandani and you mentioned housing in that. And actually that was a very interesting video.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Your zoron take was incredible. That was one of your best videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so you concede then that I talk about housing. Do you know that in my first ARC speech I was speaking to an audience of Conservatives, many.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Hold on.

[Constantine Kisin]

So don't interrupt. I'm speaking to an audience of conservative. Hold on. I was speaking to an audience of conservatives, many of them conservative politicians.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You said if they don't own houses, if the generation below us don't own houses, don't feel part of society, they're.

[Constantine Kisin]

Not going to want to preserve it.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I agree with that.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, Maybe if you'd watch some of our interviews.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, I've definitely seen some, but I did analysis of your titles, which is because I was trying to say that you're selling outrage to an audience to get views and you make money from it. Okay, but your point of housing. You're exactly right.

[Constantine Kisin]

I know you're exactly right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I wish, I wish you would follow that topic. So I wish you would follow it because when you, you did that Zoron video, at the end of it, you said the same point, you said, what was it? It was about that if they don't have a house, right? That what was the statement about they don't have the nation to conserve or society.

[Constantine Kisin]

I was telling conservatives.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, but you didn't give. So at the end of that video, you didn't give a solution. You agreed, you agreed to. No, you didn't go watch that video back at the end of that video, you conclude Zoron is correct. If people don't have houses, it will fuck everything up and they won't want a nation to conserve. We, as left and right people, we agree on that. But at the end of the video, you do not offer any solution. How are you going to help people get houses?

[Constantine Kisin]

The solution is how are you going.

[Jimmy the Giant]

To help people get houses?

[Constantine Kisin]

We. If you're interested, we interviewed someone called Liam Halligan who wrote a whole book about it about many of the solutions for how. How do you propose ending corruption in the planning system, making sure there's 1.2.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Million plots of land that approved and ready to build housing on, but the housing developers don't build the housing because it speculates.

[Constantine Kisin]

I just started.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. You got me revved up. Yeah, I'll relax.

[Constantine Kisin]

So let's just come back to the translink, because I do the housing. Bro, let's just.

[Jimmy the Giant]

People don't give a. About trans people.

[Constantine Kisin]

They're watching interviews about it, as you rightly say, so they clearly do.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I am, I am probably not going to have a really radical, interesting opinion on trans.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm not interested in your opinion on trans. You made some statements about why, just.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Why you talk about so damn much compared to How?

[Constantine Kisin]

Jimmy, you've got to stop interrupting and let me finish my point and then I'll let you finish your point. Can we do that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, great.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Relax.

[Constantine Kisin]

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[Constantine Kisin]

On the trans thing, we became very concerned about that issue and we became very concerned about the fact that people with penises were going into female prisons and lots of other things. And we had lots of people on the show to try and understand that. We had parents of trans kids on the show, we had many trans people themselves to talk about it in order to understand what was happening, including people who had very radical ideas from a pro trans perspective, like India Willoughby. Okay. Once we understood what was happening, it was fundamentally about driving forward some of the changes that we've then since seen. So we're streeting banning puberty blockers under the nhs, making sure the definition of what a woman is was clear in the Supreme Court, which my forestarter did, et cetera, et cetera, once those objectives were achieved. We haven't talked about it since.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Good.

[Constantine Kisin]

And have no intention. So that issue in my mind was very important.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You finished the trans.

[Constantine Kisin]

We haven't talked about it with anything.

[Jimmy the Giant]

That's good, right? That's good.

[Constantine Kisin]

So that's an important societal issue because the definition of what a woman is is quite central to everything that we understand about human nature, relationships, et cetera. We talked about that issue because we thought it was important.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. Okay.

[Constantine Kisin]

Now in terms of all other stuff that you bring up, immigration, you talk.

[Jimmy the Giant]

About the only one you've you touch on. So you don't touch on Jimmy. From a title perspective, you laid out.

[Constantine Kisin]

A list of arguments. I'm addressing them in time. Can I do that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay. So on the immigration thing, immigration has increased the population of this country very, very rapidly in a very short period of time, which is a massive contributor to the cost of housing. When you have way more people for the same number. Do you know what percentage, what percentage of the population?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No. What percentage affect thousand housing?

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't. I don't think I do know.

[Jimmy the Giant]

If the top 1% for every 1% population rise of migrants, it'll be 1% house pressure. So it's about. If we go from like the 90s, roughly 20% housing pressure.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It does affect different areas differently. Some it has a negative effect. House prices have increased by 300%. So 20% of that is immigrants. And bearing in mind that immigrants contribute to also construction, the nhs, social care, so they have beneficial effects to the economy that are less seen. But they do have this 20 effect. There is still 270.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Effect. So if we.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah. There's lots of problems with the housing market about which we've talked about in the show.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't see. And I wish I saw it more and I'm glad you.

[Constantine Kisin]

You haven't seen any of our videos. Clearly, that's why you don't know. But you. When I asked you how many of those videos you've seen, you said you were going off.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, back then I would have listened. When I used to be on the Right, I would listen to you guys quite a lot. Talk about the trans stuff, like. Right, yeah. So I've seen them in the past. I've seen a lot.

[Constantine Kisin]

So have you seen our episodes about housing?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, because five, six years ago I didn't watch it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But I see the one.

[Constantine Kisin]

We can leave that one. All right, so a grifter is somebody who. Say it again. So we have a clear definition.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Pedals outrage.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

To get views. Selling bullshit. So instead of sort of going, well, what are the problems in society is housing, it's cost of living. Let's talk about that. Let's work out why. Or even say Net zero, the one that you jumped off quite quickly earlier. Net zero, what is it? Who. Who's pushing it? Let's get some climate experts. Let's get some policy experts. Instead you get climate skeptics who typically sort of like pundits, etc. So you don't really.

[Constantine Kisin]

Have you listened to Marlon Baker?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I did, actually, yeah. Yeah. And that was a better one. That was definitely a better.

[Constantine Kisin]

So we do get those people.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, One of the six videos or whatever it is.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so we do get those people.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. And.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did you listen to our interview with Roger Hallam, who's the co. Founder of Extinction Rebellion?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I haven't. That sounds good.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so do you. So you don't seem to be fully aware of what we've done, but you've got very strong opinions about it. Isn't that exactly what a grifter would do?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Massively. Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right. And then put a clickbait title on it, as you've conceded that you do. Okay, cool. So a grifter is someone who pedals outrage and says things that aren't true.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Not says things that aren't true. They can genuinely believe in these things.

[Constantine Kisin]

They just. But they focus on.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, they've seen. So what I'm.

[Constantine Kisin]

If they really believe.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Because if it isn't the truth, if it is. If your opinion of net zero is that we can't reduce, we can't switch to renewables because it's going to be too costly on individuals lives. When you do know that that isn't true, you do know that renewables are cheaper. And the reason that we pay more for gas, the reason that we pay high energy bills is because of cost, marginal pricing. And gas is very expensive. So it sets the price of the whole market. So renewables, it costs about £45 per megawatt hour, gets priced the same as gas that can in a crisis go up to £200. You know that. You know about marginal costing, don't you?

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, brav.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You know about marginal cost when you tell people the reason we can't pursue renewables is because it's going to make.

[Constantine Kisin]

I've never told people.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You have. You have said this exact phrase. You say you people will not accept a declining living standard implying higher costs in order to achieve net zero. That's a false dichotomy because that isn't what it is really. You know that.

[Constantine Kisin]

So how much is net zero going to cost?

[Jimmy the Giant]

What do you mean?

[Constantine Kisin]

How much will net zero cost?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, it will save people money. Save work.

[Constantine Kisin]

Estimate for net zero, 1.5 trillion. Okay. That's quite a lot of money, Jimmy.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So do you understand how energy prices work?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no. Do you understand that? You just yourself said it's going to save people money and then you said it's going to cost 1.5 trillion.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Are you paying? Who's paying the 1.5?

[Constantine Kisin]

We all are. Through taxation.

[Jimmy the Giant]

How do you get taxes?

[Constantine Kisin]

By taking money from people.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Who pays the most taxes?

[Constantine Kisin]

People.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And that tax gets used to do what? Create things that are in the public interest that have paid dividends.

[Constantine Kisin]

You just said it's going to save money and then you said it's going to cost one.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Create money at one point. Cost money. Did you set up this business with no capital investment at all?

[Constantine Kisin]

Pretty much, actually. But yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You. You've done no capital investment into this?

[Constantine Kisin]

Pretty much.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Just labor hours.

[Constantine Kisin]

Pretty much.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So labor hours is capital investment because it's your time, which is money. Right?

[Constantine Kisin]

It's going to cost. Net zero is estimated in different countries to cost different amounts. Right, but in Britain, 1.5 trillion pounds is your figure and then you are saying it's going to save money, but.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You know it's going to save money.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I don't know it's going to save money. Okay, fine. If I build whatever, this is why I Couldn't be asked for this conversation.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I build a ton of houses If I take 1 trillion in deficit. So you, you like the support of Donald Trump? He's taken a massive debt.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm the supporter of Donald Trump.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But you know, when have I said.

[Constantine Kisin]

That I'm in support of Donald Trump?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I feel like you or Francis, once he got in power, said like sanity's return to America.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm. When have I said I'm support of.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Donald Trump, not support Donald Trump.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you just keep saying these things.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I clearly don't understand your channel very well.

[Constantine Kisin]

You clearly don't understand many things very well, but my channel is just one of them. When have I.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you support Donald Trump for the point that we're trying to make it. Do you support Donald Trump for the.

[Constantine Kisin]

Point we're trying to make here? What does that mean?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, that he has increased deficit in order to do what he believes is an economically beneficial thing, which is to.

[Constantine Kisin]

That is what he believes and that's what he's done. You accept that increasing the deficit to.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do things that he considers to be economically beneficial?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I don't.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't think Donald Trump is taking deficit in order to cut taxes because the idea is they will stimulate economic.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, that's what he believes.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah. It's not what I believe.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, but that is what people do, right?

[Constantine Kisin]

They take deficit, but it's not what I believe. Did you just hear that? I said that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

So I am not a supporter.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, that's fine.

[Constantine Kisin]

But you understand, you just said that about me.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You understand that people take deficit to pay for things that they think will pay dividends and improve society.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah, but that's not what. So if we take a deficit, net zero is about. Yes, it is.

[Jimmy the Giant]

We're borrowing money to build green technologies that makes our energy costs not tied to foreign billionaires and private equity firms that sell us energy. Extorted rates that make our energy prices.

[Constantine Kisin]

Higher than anyone else cost 1.5 trillion then.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Because you have to take deficits in order to afford these.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, I see. So what's going to be the profit from net zero that your bills will be the number it's going to cost 1.5 trillion. And what's going to be the return on that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Low energy bills for individuals.

[Constantine Kisin]

So how much is it going to. How much is it going to profit us? We're going to spend 1.5 trillion, like you said, with the deficit. Right. How much are we going to get back?

[Jimmy the Giant]

That's a very good question. Probably you could find the answer to that.

[Constantine Kisin]

Wait. Oh, so you don't know?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, I definitely don't know.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, that's fascinating. You just said it's going to make us money. You don't know how much. Okay, cool. We'll leave it there.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you understand?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, we'll leave it there.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Any nation that is.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're giving me a good example of exactly what a grifter does. Someone throws out claims, they come back.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The nations that follow renewables have lower energy prices than us. You know that. You know Denmark, you know, all these nations do that.

[Constantine Kisin]

You done?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You know that?

[Constantine Kisin]

You done?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You know that?

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you done?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you done? You are Cool. So a grifter is someone who pursues outrage. They might believe it, they might not. Right. But they say things that are factually incorrect.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, so let's look at the sort.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Of like, increasing renewables will make our lives more expensive.

[Constantine Kisin]

Cool. So in the video that you did, the rise of the middle class grifter, in which I feature alongside a number of people, you said, there's one quote I want to say. You show an image of me on my Australia tour, and then you say, people like this start every sentence by saying, I'm not right wing, which I do quite a lot. And by the end of the sentence, they're defending Enoch Powell.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. They always claim to be actually left wing or centrists or something. They start every single sentence with I'm not right wing. And by the end of the sentence, they're defending Enoch Powell.

[Constantine Kisin]

When have I defended Enoch Powell?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't like jokes, Constantine.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, so you didn't mean it?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. No, you don't. I don't think you defend Enoch Powell. Do you defend Enoch Powell?

[Constantine Kisin]

No.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay, so it's a joke, right? So you know, the same way you guys call us woke indoctrinated liberals.

[Constantine Kisin]

I've never called you a woke indoctrinated liberal.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You've never just talked broad strokes on people on the left as all woke indoctrinated Marxists.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're getting very confused, Jimmy.

[Jimmy the Giant]

When you've never done broad strokes on the left, when Kishing doesn't paint broad strokes on the left.

[Constantine Kisin]

When you show a picture of a specific person and then you say these people do this, this and this.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're making a claim about that specific person.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you.

[Constantine Kisin]

In this, in this case, that person is me. So what I'm asking you is you've made the claim that I defend Enoch Powell. When have I done that?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I don't know, you tell me. It was a joke, wasn't it?

[Constantine Kisin]

Was. It didn't seem like a joke.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Probably. If you play the clip, you'll probably hear some.

[Constantine Kisin]

The clips. We'll play the clip. People can judge it for themselves. Okay, cool. Then you say these people, they use the facade that they critique both sides and they will lose their absolute shit over Joe Biden eating an ice cream. Yeah, I know it's a minor point, but when have I lost my shit about Joe Biden eating an ice cream?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This is.

[Jimmy the Giant]

This is brilliant. You're taking specific jokes.

[Constantine Kisin]

That's a joke as well.

[Jimmy the Giant]

When did this specific thing.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you didn't mean that either. Okay. And then you say, but they remain strangely silent when Donald tried. Trying to. Tried to coup the American government. Is that a joke as well, or is that serious?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Quite genuinely. Lots of people on the right.

[Constantine Kisin]

You had a picture of me on the screen. So is that a joke or is that a serious claim?

[Jimmy the Giant]

What the people downplay.

[Constantine Kisin]

That you downplay remain strangely silent is your claim. Did I.

[Jimmy the Giant]

On January?

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah. Did I remain strangely silent?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I haven't really heard you talk about it. I've never heard you say you've made.

[Constantine Kisin]

The claim that I remain strangely silent. Yeah. So I've never heard. Is that a joke?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I've never heard.

[Constantine Kisin]

Let's just get the joke big. Are you using the joke thing as a defense? Is that a joke or is that serious?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You are stressed by this.

[Constantine Kisin]

I am. I don't like people lying about.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Fair enough.

[Constantine Kisin]

Because that's what a grifter would do. So is that a serious claim or not?

[Jimmy the Giant]

About you specifically have a picture of.

[Constantine Kisin]

Me on the screen and then you say this person remains strangely silent.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I said, Constantine Kisham remains.

[Constantine Kisin]

You said people like this.

[Jimmy the Giant]

While showing a picture like this is very.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're showing a picture of me.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay.

[Constantine Kisin]

And then you're saying people like this remain strangely silent.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. Yeah, they do.

[Constantine Kisin]

Often.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The facade of these guys is that claim of being neutral. They always claim they critique both sides, but, like, you know, they'll. They'll lose their absolute shit over Joe Biden eating an ice cream but remaining strangely silent when Donald Trump tried to coup the American government.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did I remain. Did I remain strangely silent about January 6th?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Maybe. I haven't heard you talk about it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Maybe.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. So you've talked about it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Is it a joke or is it not joke, first of all? No, no, That's a serious claim.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Definitely.

[Constantine Kisin]

Serious claim.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Definitely.

[Constantine Kisin]

People, have I remained strangely silent about January 6th?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I haven't heard you Talk about it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Would it surprise you, therefore, to know that on January 7th, by complete coincidence, I was doing an interview with. Me and Francis were. With Carl Benjamin, who used to be called Sargon of a Car.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you like Carl Benjamin?

[Constantine Kisin]

And we had a conversation about January 6th in which him, Francis and I were making the case there was a terrible thing to happen and.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Terrible thing to happen.

[Constantine Kisin]

Terrible thing.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you think Donald Trump should have went to jail for that?

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't know. I'm not an expert.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't know?

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't know. No. And I. And I don't think it was a coup entirely. It was a bunch of.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Literally proving my point.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I'm not proving your point. I'm proving the point to you the very next day.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Are you. Right now you just downplayed January 6th in front of me.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did I remain strangely silent about it?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, you're talking about it, so I'll give you that. You're at least talking about it, but you have just downplayed it. He probably didn't need to go to jail. Probably nothing happened.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, a bunch of people storming the Capitol is not.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you think he should have pardoned all those people?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, I don't.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Okay.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's not a coup of the American government. Right. Because words have definitions. Grifter is one of them, Coup is another one, etc. Now, on the 7th of January, that's the next day, we were speaking to an audience of people who are on the right and saying to them, this is completely wrong. Should not have been happened. People on the right should not be condoning or celebrating.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Did those people then go on to back Donald Trump? Do they?

[Constantine Kisin]

You're. You're really trying to dodge the point I'm making here, which is you put up a picture of me saying that people like me remain strangely silent. And now you're discovering that that is the opposite of the truth. And yet you don't seem to.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But it does seem.

[Constantine Kisin]

You don't seem. Hold on a second. And you don't seem to do what a normal person would do, which is to say, wow, mate, I'm really sorry. I don't. I don't understand your channel very well. I've clearly made a mistake here. I withdraw these fals statements.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. If you really do think that Donald Trump did a coup on the government and you don't support him for that, you think that probably should go to jail, I will retract that statement for sure.

[Constantine Kisin]

You haven't retracted the statement.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I'll retract it right now. I'm retracting it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Excellent. So you lied about me about that. Now, coming back to this idea that you were talking, you had a picture of me and you were saying these people have the facade that they critique both sides.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right.

[Constantine Kisin]

You think that's true about me? It's a facade?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay. So are you aware that among people in our space, I've been very, very critical of people on the right about their ridiculous position?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, the work right stuff. That's your best take.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, hold on.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I'm sorry.

[Constantine Kisin]

Ukraine. About Ukraine. Are you aware that we raised tens of thousands of pounds on trigonometry for Ukraine? Are you aware that I've been fiercely critical of people like Tucker Carlson and Kundasans?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, the woke. Right. Stuff. You're.

[Constantine Kisin]

And the work right.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I think that's a fair point.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay. And housing, speaking directly to conservatives and telling them you have never.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You have never presented an actual solution to housing. You've never presented it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Really. You've seen all our videos.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is your solution to housing?

[Constantine Kisin]

Hold on a second.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is your solution? How are you going to make it so that your audience, the young people that watch this, are ever going to afford a house? How are you going to do that? How does Constantation, Constant Kishen propose to do?

[Constantine Kisin]

First of all, it's constant. And kissing.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Kissing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yes.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I've been saying it wrong for literally years.

[Constantine Kisin]

You have been. Now, coming back to the. These are all claims that you've made.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right. Why can't you talk about anything substantive?

[Constantine Kisin]

I. I would.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Look, I'll accept. I probably just chatted on you. I should have probably looked more at some of the things that you said.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay, but why don't you stop there and pause and just listen to what you just said? Also, you just admitted you have no idea what you're talking about. And at the same time, and you're still driving forward the narrative that you had, isn't that exactly what a grifter would do?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You're doing exactly what I'm claiming. You can't talk about things that are substantive. 53 videos on trans people. You can't talk about housing. You can't talk about nhs. You can't talk about cost of living, because you'd have to actually engage with these topics.

[Constantine Kisin]

Wow.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Every time I've tried to talk about these things with you, you want to get it back to, you said this. You said this. You said this. Obviously have it. Bad video. Take it. But let's talk about housing. How do you want to fix housing?

[Constantine Kisin]

No, no, no, no, no, no. You made a video accusing me and a bunch of other people of being grifters.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, you can call me a grifter. For sure if you want to call me a grifter. Let's talk about housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Hold on.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Let's talk about housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't want to call you a grifter. That you can call me.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Let's talk about housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did you just hear when I said I don't want to call you a grifter.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Let's talk about housing?

[Constantine Kisin]

No.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Your audience, in about five years, they're going to realize this conversation is stupid and that the actual conversation is about housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

You made a video about grifters.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you invited me on and we've started having a conversation and you've only focused on that sort of stuff.

[Constantine Kisin]

You haven't I invited you on to talk about your video?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah. Because we haven't talked about anything that actually matters to people. I'll let you have it. You can say it was a bad video.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm not saying it's a perfect video. Wait, so you. You went on the Internet, you made a video about a bunch of people in which you made a number of false claims, and now when I've pointed out to you that they're false, your defense is what?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I think your audience is going to see that you don't like to engage with real. You'll to many people that kind of agree with me, they're going to see that you don't want to engage on any real substance.

[Constantine Kisin]

That's very interesting because you're not engaging on the thing that I'm bringing up with you.

[Jimmy the Giant]

That makes the point that I'm making that you come across very grifty because you don't actually talk about real things, Right. You talk about very surface level shit.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't talk about things that affect people's lives, Right? Like the fact that people aren't going to fucking afford to live in this economy. The fact that things are getting shitter.

[Constantine Kisin]

And you're the one that's making videos about grifters. Have I ever made a video calling anyone a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You, I am sure you have called someone a grifter.

[Constantine Kisin]

Have I ever made a video calling a bunch of people, I don't know, grifters, and then gone on their show and claimed to their face a bunch of lies about them?

[Jimmy the Giant]

You're quite upset about this.

[Constantine Kisin]

Not upset at all.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It does seem you're a bit Upset. Look, I'm sorry if I've offended you. I'm talking broad strokes.

[Constantine Kisin]

By lying.

[Jimmy the Giant]

By talking by lying. Well, what's the difference?

[Constantine Kisin]

You said the definition. If I'm talking broad strokes is something that might be true, but that's not true.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What's the title of the video?

[Constantine Kisin]

The title of the video is the Rise of the Middle Class Grifter.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right. So it's a type of character that there's a certain.

[Constantine Kisin]

In which you feature me. And you've just admitted that all the things you claimed about me include.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is the key. What is the core premise of that video? What's the argument I'm making?

[Constantine Kisin]

The argument you're making is all of these people focus on. Focus on things that are going.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Outrage.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yes. And they're going to tell you things that are lies. Right?

[Jimmy the Giant]

I never said lies.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay? You just said it in. You said bullshit.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, bullshit. You can believe bullshit. I think you probably believe the things that you talk about. I just think they're really stupid.

[Constantine Kisin]

And yet here you are having made a video that is full of lies that are worse than bullshit. You haven't done your research. You haven't checked whether the person about whom you're making certain claims has said or not said the things you're claiming. And the moment you're challenged on it, your reaction is what? To. To try and dodge the question.

[Jimmy the Giant]

To paint the picture that you're doing exactly what my video claims you do.

[Constantine Kisin]

To try.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Don't talk about substance, things about culture.

[Constantine Kisin]

To try and dodge the reality that you lied in your video, in your head.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right now you think you're doing something. In reality. You're proving my point that you cannot engage on anything substantive. That was the argument in the video. You can't talk about housing.

[Constantine Kisin]

Hold on a second.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You can't talk. You haven't even been able to give me your solution to housing. You've not able to talk about. You've not talked on any of these topics. You can't talk because that's.

[Constantine Kisin]

We're not here to talk about that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

We're here on a political channel. We don't talk about politics. You'd rather talk about a guy who's basically just chatting shit on you. And you'd rather get angry and annoyed and pissed off at the person who's chatting on you and not actually even attempt to try and engage with my point that is focused on stupid topics.

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm getting annoyed with you because you're not answering the question and you're not engaging what's the question.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Now you've thrown 100 at him. Gone. What's the question?

[Constantine Kisin]

Now you keep interrupting. So that's why I keep having to ask you the same question a hundred times. So your definition of a grifter was someone who creates outrage and clickbait, which you admitted you do for sure.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I do that. Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah.

[Jimmy the Giant]

That's YouTube in it.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, not really.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, YouTube isn't clickbait.

[Constantine Kisin]

Not all of it. You have a choice.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What is clickbait? You want to bait someone to click on your videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

This is why I keep having to ask you the same question 100 times. Because you keep interrupting.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right, sure.

[Constantine Kisin]

So creates outrage. Does clickbait, and says things that aren't true. Right there. Again, creates clickbait.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

To call outrage and says things that they might not believe but that aren't true.

[Jimmy the Giant]

They're missing quite a bit of it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, that's what you said.

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's pedal outrage.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah, pedal out by.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So con man. Okay, right. So you talk about things that don't matter to piss people off. You misrepresent topics to annoy people, to make them click, and then you make a load of money back.

[Constantine Kisin]

Great.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Would you say that I misrepresent. Would you say that I misrepresent the story on council estates?

[Constantine Kisin]

I haven't seen your story in council.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Wait, wait. Would you. Would you say that I misrepresent my stories on benefit scrounges?

[Constantine Kisin]

I haven't watched it.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you haven't seen any of my videos. And I can see where this conversation's heading. You're going to say, oh, aren't you doing everything that I. You're claiming I do.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay.

[Jimmy the Giant]

And I'm trying to say my content does not do that. What about that video that actually affect people's lives?

[Constantine Kisin]

Like grifters?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yes, because it does affect people.

[Constantine Kisin]

Oh, I see. So Internet grifters affect people's lives.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You doing what you do makes people think, oh, the trans ideologues. That's going to destroy my life. Meanwhile, they can't afford a house.

[Constantine Kisin]

Really?

[Jimmy the Giant]

It's really. It's a. Very Obviously, the reason I make that is because I'm trying to paint that what you do is negative for society. And I would love you. And I. I sort of genuinely thought at the beginning of this conversation you would perhaps engage on some topics, and I thought there probably is some genuine conversation to be had. But throughout this conversation, it's proved it to me that you are specifically more interested in getting a sort of. You're A grifter. You're a liar at me. Rather than engage on. We haven't even talked about immigration. You invite me to talk about immigration.

[Constantine Kisin]

I didn't invite you to talk about immigration.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, you did. In the message you said your video, immigration and other things that affect Britain. We have only talked about my video.

[Constantine Kisin]

We've talked.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You can have it. You can have that if you want to. But what I'm saying is you. You make this stereotype and you play the stereotype and you do it very well. Like, it's very good, but it's like. Like negative to political discourse because your audience don't get taught. They don't talk about neoliberalism, they don't talk about the problems of privatization.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did you not have a chance to talk about that for a good 20 minutes when we started?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Do you talk about that? Does your channel as a whole.

[Constantine Kisin]

I don't have to talk about things that matter to people, believe are important.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you think I'm in the wrong? That I believe that housing and cost of living affect people's lives? You said that I think are important. We're humans of the same society. We live in Britain together. What affects people's lives are the same things. Right.

[Constantine Kisin]

You yourself conceded a little while ago that I've talked about housing quite a bit.

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, you haven't. I didn't say quite a bit. You did one video five to six years. No, you did three videos five, six years ago. And then you mentioned it in the Zora Mondani one. And then in your. Your thing at Oxford Union.

[Constantine Kisin]

No, not at Oxford.

[Jimmy the Giant]

222 videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

Right. So I've talked about it quite a bit.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Quite a bit. What do you do? I would say trans. 53 videos on trans is quite a bit. On trans.

[Constantine Kisin]

It is.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I would say five to six video. I'd say three videos he did five to six years ago. I wouldn't call that quite a bit.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're making the same.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I would say at one point, five, six years ago, you used to have a genuine curiosity. I really do see that in those old videos. And there was some right wing that I wouldn't agree with. But you did used to explore some ideas. I would say that was true.

[Constantine Kisin]

Jimmy, do you think this is going well for you?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Terribly. But then you think about two to three. Two to three years ago you flipped.

[Constantine Kisin]

Do you notice that you saw the.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Financial benefit to talk about trans?

[Constantine Kisin]

You see, you're mind reading. You're making things up again about things that you don't know. Well, see all of these.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Well, give me your defense then. What happened to you, bro? You used to talk about things and then all of a sudden you realize If I make 53 videos on training.

[Constantine Kisin]

The first thing that anyone watching this will notice. Right. Is that you've made a video in which you've made a bunch of false claims.

[Jimmy the Giant]

What were the false claims?

[Constantine Kisin]

Would you like me to read them to you again? Hold on. No, be quiet.

[Jimmy the Giant]

The two. The two jokes are false claims or are they jokes? And then what was the last one?

[Constantine Kisin]

The Donald Trump means things.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. So that one's incorrect.

[Constantine Kisin]

That one is incorrect.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But the other two are jokes.

[Constantine Kisin]

What about using the choice. Hold on a second. Stop talking and listen to what I'm saying. What about the facade of me not critiquing the right where. I've critiqued the right over Ukraine, I've critiqued the woke right as I call it. I've critiqued the right about the lack of understanding of inequality is cultural issues.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Right. Obviously. Jan6 I'll give you that. It's a bit more than a cultural issue, but you perceive everything through culture. Have you ever talked about tax enriched people? Have you ever talked about the House crisis? You don't really talk about these things.

[Constantine Kisin]

And you don't notice. Notice how the moment I make a good point, you just sidestep it.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't critique right wing. You don't critique right wing ideology. You might critique cultural topics. Fine, I'll give you that. Maybe. But you don't critique right wing ideology on the economy.

[Constantine Kisin]

Let's just.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You don't critique the idea that having a really big billionaire class might be negative for people. You don't talk about these things.

[Constantine Kisin]

Did you read my book?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No. No. Do you talk about that in there?

[Constantine Kisin]

Do you know that I have a whole chapter about the importance of addressing inequality in my book?

[Jimmy the Giant]

And how do you propose to do it?

[Constantine Kisin]

It's all in there. You can read it.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I've got to read the book to get your opinion on how to deal with inequality? You're not gonna just tell me how to deal?

[Constantine Kisin]

Talk about the spirit level and other things that left wing economists all like. I'll give you a copy of the book.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, yeah, please. Why don't you talk about this stuff more? This really fucking matters.

[Constantine Kisin]

I wrote a chapter in a book that.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Why did you not talk about on your YouTube channel?

[Constantine Kisin]

I just clearly your beats. Are you not hearing yourself? I wrote a book that's a Sunday time bestseller in which one of the chapters addresses the issues that you're talking about. So when you say why don't you talk about it? Yeah, I talked about it in a book.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But not on your YouTube channel, which you've made 222 videos on. Not about.

[Constantine Kisin]

I, I really think you are really embarrassing yourself probably, man. But there will be a lot of people embarrassing yourself. I'm telling you that in the Sunday Times best selling book there's a whole chap YouTube channel. And on our YouTube channel.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Go on, tell me about it.

[Constantine Kisin]

Go and watch our interview with Liam halligan.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You've made one.

[Constantine Kisin]

Go and watch our interview with one.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Conversation with Liam Halligan 53 on trans. One conversation.

[Constantine Kisin]

Go and watch Aaron 2 Liam Halligan. It's all in there.

[Jimmy the Giant]

So you're not going to just tell me because you don't want to talk about inequality. Why do you not want to talk about inequality? Do you think for your audience, what's a more productive conversation?

[Constantine Kisin]

Are you watching this? I just told them that in my book.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Oh, you're looking at.

[Constantine Kisin]

There's a chapter about inequality and he's saying, why don't you talk about inequality.

[Jimmy the Giant]

On your YouTube channel, which is what you mainly do. You make hundreds of videos.

[Constantine Kisin]

I sold many, many tens of thousands.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Why don't you tell me about what's your opinion on.

[Constantine Kisin]

Because it's complex inequality, Jimmy.

[Jimmy the Giant]

But that's what I mean. You don't deal with complex topics on your podcast.

[Constantine Kisin]

Except in my book. Which is why you might want to deal with complex topics. Right?

[Jimmy the Giant]

So in a podcast you wouldn't. You would rather talk 53 videos on.

[Constantine Kisin]

Chance you really have come here with talking points. You're not able to go beyond them, are you?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, definitely not.

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, it's clear. So just come back to the video you made, right, in which you made a bunch of you called the claims.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Claims.

[Constantine Kisin]

So are you going to withdraw that video? You're going to take it down?

[Jimmy the Giant]

No, no, no.

[Constantine Kisin]

Whether you're going to keep lies up there on the Internet about other people that you know are lies?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Oh, big time.

[Constantine Kisin]

Really? Why?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Terrible grifter, you could say.

[Constantine Kisin]

Why would you keep something up that you now know is not true?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Because it is true. The general point that I'm making is that you basically do what you're doing right now, which is unable to engage on material factors that actually affect your audience lives. You'd rather have cultural conversations endlessly because it benefits you financially and it's your whole model. And I genuinely thought, actually I thought more ideologically you were probably on this side I genuinely thought probably this is what you really think are the big issues on society. But throughout this conversation, you haven't even been able to get in on any of these topics.

[Constantine Kisin]

Notice how you're dodging everything I'm saying. I'm simply asking you. You're a content creator on YouTube who clearly believes in the importance of telling the truth. Right. That's why you made a video about people who are not telling the truth in which you included me. Right. And now that you've discovered that that video is full of untruths.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Full of untruths.

[Constantine Kisin]

It is. You are not gonna take it down.

[Jimmy the Giant]

There's no underlying message or point that I've made that's been very evident in this interview that you don't engage in anything substantive. You only engage in culture.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you're gonna double down.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Drama.

[Constantine Kisin]

You're gonna double down big.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Double down.

[Constantine Kisin]

Yeah. Triple down On. On. The video you now know is full of lies.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Full of lies. Is that. Is this a lie that you. This is what you're doing, the whole podcast. You haven't engaged in anything.

[Constantine Kisin]

Wow.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah. Wow.

[Constantine Kisin]

Okay. Well, I think we kind of made the point.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah.

[Constantine Kisin]

How much money did you make from that video, Immigrant?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Five thousand.

[Constantine Kisin]

A thousand?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Probably.

[Constantine Kisin]

It's a video that did 350,000 views. It's half an hour, probably three ad integrations. So how much did you make from it?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Five.

[Constantine Kisin]

Five grand.

[Jimmy the Giant]

Billion. Five billion.

[Constantine Kisin]

Five grand. At least, I would think.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I'd say five million.

[Constantine Kisin]

So you made a video full of lies from which you made five grand, and you won't take it down? Is that not exactly what a grifter would do?

[Jimmy the Giant]

So am I a grifter?

[Constantine Kisin]

Well, I'm asking you, by your definition, I've never called you a grifter, but.

[Jimmy the Giant]

You want me to say it?

[Constantine Kisin]

I'm asking you, by your definition, are you a grifter?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Massively.

[Constantine Kisin]

I think we can leave it there. Thanks for coming on.

[Jimmy the Giant]

I was 14. How many abusers did you have? Over 100. They get you that drunk like you pull pass out. I remember them. Seven men taking on turns on me. The ones that I'm scared of are the ones that I don't remember.

[Constantine Kisin]

You got arrested for inciting sexual activity?

[Jimmy the Giant]

Yeah, I stood trial with both the adults and. Yeah, and I got sentenced with them and everything. I actually went to jail and put on a sex offenders register. I spent my 18th birthday in jail. I missed my auntie's funeral in jail. Lot of my life. I lost my childhood, obviously, due to the abuse. They have sacrificed children like Jade on the altar of political correctness. It's not just the perpetrators that have done this to me. It's the police. It's social services. It's the cult people that sent me to jail. It's all of them.

[Constantine Kisin]

Foreign.

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