TRIGGERnometry – Mehdi Hasan Debate on the Iran War, Immigration and the Israel Lobby
Episode Date: March 27, 2026
Host: Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster
Guest: Mehdi Hasan (Editor-in-chief, Zateo; veteran journalist)
Episode Overview
This episode features an intellectually charged and passionate debate between hosts Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster with guest Mehdi Hasan. The discussion delves into the ongoing war involving Iran, US and Israeli interests, the power and influence of the Israel lobby in American politics, and Western immigration debates. Mehdi Hasan offers his left-wing perspective, robustly challenges common narratives, and reflects on the limitations and failures of both left and right political establishments. Throughout, the tone is combative yet thoughtful, with all participants pressing each other for logic, consistency, and honest introspection.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Mehdi Hasan’s Background and Perspective on Justice
- Mehdi introduces himself as Editor-in-Chief of Zateo, former MSNBC and Al Jazeera host, and writer.
- He details his upbringing in a politically engaged, left-wing UK household, citing justice and social responsibility as formative values.
“I was an angry young man in my teens and it’s probably, you know, they say you grow out of it as you grow older, but I didn’t.” (02:33, Hasan) - Mehdi moved to the US for both professional and personal reasons, arriving in 2015 as Trump launched his first campaign.
2. The Iran War: Motives, Outcomes, and Accountability
Mehdi’s Position (04:06, 05:35, 06:09, 08:22)
- Declares the war "a disaster," "not legal," "not justifiable," and "not in the US’s national interest".
“A lot of innocent people are dying as we speak without any real justification.” (04:06, Hasan) - Challenges the logic of US preemptive action: uses analogy about “wrecking the car before your brother does”.
- Identifies multiple motives for US involvement:
- Influence from Israel: “Israel plays a big role in this. I don’t think it’s the only role.” (05:35, Hasan)
- US domestic politics: Possible distraction from economic woes, posturing by Trump to avoid appearing weak.
- Poor negotiation: “Witkoff and Kushner screwing up the negotiations, not understanding what was going on.” (06:31, Hasan)
- Conspiracy and public perception: “52% of Americans think the Epstein files was one of the reasons Trump went to war...” (07:00, Hasan)
War Outcomes and Who’s Winning?
- “All of the available evidence suggests he [Trump] is losing. What are his goals in Iran? We don't know because he's never really stated them.” (08:42, Hasan)
- Notes Iran’s resilience: “A country like Iran wins simply by surviving.” (08:42, Hasan)
3. The US-Israel Relationship and the Israel Lobby
The Power of the Israel Lobby (11:58, 12:38, 13:10, 14:00)
- Mehdi underscores Israel’s singular influence in Washington—unmatched by any other foreign country.
- Cites evidence:
- US Senators (Lindsey Graham) directly coached by Israeli PM Netanyahu on how to “sell” the war.
“Lindsey Graham told the Wall Street Journal...I met with Netanyahu and I coached him...how to persuade Trump to get into this war.” (09:51, Hasan) - Politicians fear being “primaried,” labeled “antisemitic,” or targeted by AIPAC.
- “The idea that there isn’t a very, very powerful pro-Israel lobby is absurd. Just as there is a very powerful gun lobby.” (13:10, Hasan)
- US Senators (Lindsey Graham) directly coached by Israeli PM Netanyahu on how to “sell” the war.
- Distinguishes between lobbying by Americans vs. foreign influence; notes debates over whether AIPAC should register as a foreign agent.
Democratic Disconnect
- Vast polling gap: Only 8% of Democratic voters support Israel's actions in Gaza, yet a majority of Democratic congresspeople support it.
“There's an absolute discount. The numbers are reversed.” (14:48, Hasan) - Attributed to lobbying and money in politics more than genuine ideological support.
4. Effectiveness (or Lack Thereof) of US Strategy in Iran
What Does the US Want?
- All participants agree Israel’s objectives are clear: “They want an unstable, weakened Iran that doesn’t pose a threat.” (22:14, Hasan)
- “I don't understand what the goals of this thing are.” (21:52, Kisin)
- On the nuclear program: Mehdi insists negotiation, not bombing, is the only sustainable route. Points to the JCPOA as proof—dismantled by Trump, enrichments then soared. “Most experts say you cannot bomb away a nuclear program. It's in people's heads.” (24:01, Hasan)
On Nuclear Proliferation
- Debate centers on whether any country would ever “give up” nukes; Mehdi points out Iran did comply until the US withdrew from the JCPOA. “They signed the JCPOA, which says...‘we will never get nuclear weapons’. That's what they signed on.” (27:01, Hasan)
- “The irony is they didn’t [try to build nukes]. That’s the irony. If they did, they'd be fine.” (28:32, Hasan)
5. Impact of War on the West: Strait of Hormuz and the Economy
- War’s fallout is already global: “We're seeing the oil price spikes, economic repercussions globally, the attacks on natural gas facilities...” (17:10, Hasan)
- Strait of Hormuz: Crucial oil/gas choke point, easily shut down, whose closure would devastate global energy markets and raise US inflation.
- “This was always the Iranians’ key leverage point... And apparently Trump didn’t know about this, didn’t think it through.” (32:24, Hasan)
- “The longer they [Iranians] hold out, we in the US…are going to feel the pain.” (33:43, Hasan)
6. Immigration and Border Politics
Debating “Open Borders” (49:41, 49:48, 50:07)
- Francis accuses left of “failings…[with] an open border”; Mehdi objects, defining open borders strictly ("means I could just walk into America").
- “That just means the border wasn’t as secure as you wanted it to be.” (49:48, Hasan)
- Argues that numbers spike due to “push and pull” factors: violence, economic hardship abroad, and domestic job opportunities.
- Both hosts challenge that official policy shifts explain migrant surges.
Immigration: Public Perception and Media (64:50)
- “A lot of what people think about immigration...they hear from the Daily Express and the Daily Mail and Tory politicians, and now reform politicians, that it's a huge problem nationally. Same in the US." (65:29, Hasan)
- Rejects the idea that the actual lived experience supports public anxiety.
7. Populism, Political Weakness & the Future of the Left
- “We live in the age of populism. I think in order to be elected, you have to be a populist.” (46:48, Foster)
- “The problem for the Democratic Party right now: They've looked weak for so long.” (46:43, Hasan)
- Mehdi calls for a populist left to channel anger at “the people who are actually screwing you over...[not] the undocumented migrant.” (48:18, Hasan)
- Discusses future Democratic hopefuls; doubts effectiveness of “centrist” playbook.
- “Who’s actually gonna do that and who’s gonna do it on the left?” (42:40, Hasan)
8. Islam, Terrorism, and Blowback
Connections Between Policy, Violence, and Public Perceptions (70:38–78:42)
- Recent Islamist attacks in the US: Are they “blowback” from war or something else?
- “US intelligence warned Biden…this will be a generational recruiting event for Islamist and jihadist groups.” (74:18, Hasan)
- “Violence begets violence. We've seen that in Palestine. We've seen that with Hamas. Right. Who knows what's going to come out of the...” (77:19, Hasan)
- Calls for nuanced understanding, not justification, of causes behind radicalization.
- Rebuts “messianic” stereotypes about Iran’s regime and its nuclear ambitions.
“I’m telling you, Shia Muslim is not messianic…the kind of thinking is not helpful.” (78:42, Hasan)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "You don't win people over by giving them facts, statistics, policy papers, polls… You go to people's hearts, right? You get their emotional heartstrings and you pull them. The Republicans are masters at that.” (48:18, Hasan)
- On Israel lobbying: "The only redeeming feature of the Republican Party right now is they just say the quiet part out loud." (09:51, Hasan)
- “Logic and Trump doesn’t always go in the same sentence.” (10:55, Foster)
- On policy inconsistency: “Who’s the candidate in either party who’s gonna monopolize? Trump did a great fake con job of being ‘I’m gonna be the outside guy’…But he played the part.” (42:40, Hasan)
- On populist potential: “They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. There is a moment now for this party, but they just won't take it…” (46:52, Hasan)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 02:02 – Mehdi’s background, political formation
- 04:06 – Mehdi’s summary condemnation of Iran war
- 05:35 – Israel’s influence, source of war decision
- 08:42 – Is Trump “winning” or losing in Iran?
- 11:58 – Power of the Israel lobby in American politics
- 13:10 – Politicians’ fear of lobbyists and AIPAC
- 17:10 – War’s global economic consequences
- 22:14 – What Israel and US want from war
- 24:01 – JCPOA, US strategy, nuclear logic
- 32:24 – Strait of Hormuz explanation
- 42:40 – Populism, who can capture it on the left?
- 46:43 – Democratic Party’s “weakness” problem
- 49:41 – “Open border” semantics, debate heats up
- 70:38 – Muslim terrorism, “blowback,” Islamophobia today
- 78:42 – Iran, messianic narratives, clarification
Final Reflections: The One Thing We’re Missing (79:52)
Question: “What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be?”
- Mehdi Hasan: "We've got to talk more about AI... There's a study that came out of King's (College)... when AI was asked to resolve various conflicts, in nine out of ten cases, it said use nukes." (79:57)
- Warns about the role of AI in automating warfare, echoes anxiety over its escalation potential and recent examples of autonomous systems in the ongoing Iran conflict.
Summary
This episode delivers an unflinching, passionate, and detail-rich conversation on the Iran war, the intersection of US and Israeli interests, and the complexities of Western immigration politics. Mehdi Hasan stands out with his insistence on policy rigor, factual historical review, and a populist call for the left to redirect anger against genuine power centers. The dynamic between the hosts and Mehdi is challenging yet respectful, filled with quotable moments and sharp distinctions, making this a must-listen for anyone grappling with the state of global politics in 2026.