Podcast Summary: TRIGGERnometry

Episode Title: Why Socialism Never Works – A Warning From Venezuela

Guest: Daniel Di Martino
Hosts: Konstantin Kisin, Francis Foster
Date: December 24, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Venezuelan economist and Manhattan Institute fellow Daniel Di Martino joins Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster to discuss the collapse of Venezuela under socialism. Drawing on his personal experience, Di Martino outlines the country’s fall from prosperity to crisis, directly linking its unraveling to socialist policies. He explores corruption, the role of drug cartels, the influence of Cuba and other authoritarian states, and draws pointed parallels and warnings for Western countries flirting with socialist ideas. The conversation is frank, impassioned, and frequently harrowing, full of personal anecdotes and sober economic analysis.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Venezuela’s Descent: From Wealth to Crisis

• Venezuela’s Remarkable Prosperity

  • Venezuela was once among the richest countries in the world, powered by oil and open to immigrants from across Europe and neighboring Latin American countries.
  • “In the 1950s, Venezuela was, according to any measure, the fourth highest GDP per capita in the world…” – Daniel (03:43)

• The Roots of Collapse

  • Gradual growth of the state, nationalization of oil in 1976, and ramped up welfare spending led to stagnation and corruption.
  • Hugo Chávez’s election in 1998 marked the turning point: rapid socialist reforms and constitutional changes, centralization of power, and massive state takeovers.
  • “Chavez ripped the constitution apart in his first year in office…” – Daniel (11:14)
  • Citizens voted for “free stuff,” but this inexorably required government seizure or control of productive resources.

• The Reality of ‘Free Stuff’

  • Claims that free public services or goods are paid for by taxing ‘the rich’ are misleading; such policies inevitably burden the poor and middle class.
  • “Everything has a cost, everything’s a trade-off. The question is, what trade-offs do you want to make?” – Daniel (19:07)
  • In Scandinavia, high-tax welfare states are actually funded by regressive taxes (like sales/VAT) and do not confiscate productive assets.

The Personal Cost of Collapse

• Middle-Class Collapse into Poverty

  • Daniel’s story: his parents once earned respectable incomes as gas station owners, which by 2016 had fallen to $100/month due to hyperinflation and economic collapse.
  • The loss of basic utilities (water, electricity), food shortages, and the need to carry water up five flights “for a good workout” characterized daily life.
  • “It’s going from a first world country to a third world country. That is what’s so painful.” – Daniel (27:26)

• Largest Refugee Crisis in the World

  • Nearly 9 million Venezuelans have fled, making it the world’s largest refugee crisis by proportion—exceeding even Ukraine and Syria.
  • “People don’t understand that Venezuela is the largest refugee crisis on the planet… Nearly a third of the population.” – Daniel (19:13)

• Collapse of Media and Censorship

  • State censorship forced Daniel to open a Twitter account at age 12 just to access uncensored news.
  • “The media was so censored that when I was 12 years old...I opened a Twitter account back when it was called Twitter. I then had to…read the news because I couldn’t get it from TV or from the newspapers...” – Daniel (29:34)

Socialism vs. Corruption: What Went Wrong?

• Why Socialism, Not Just Corruption, Is to Blame

  • Many countries cope with corruption without suffering Venezuela’s level of collapse. Daniel draws direct comparisons:
    • Iran and Russia: authoritarian and corrupt, but stable currency and no mass exodus.
    • “The difference between corrupt countries and socialist countries...is that Chavez printed money to pay for welfare...put price controls that led to shortages...That doesn’t happen in most corrupt countries. And so it is about socialist ideology...” – Daniel (16:58)

• Nationalization and Expropriation

  • Personal stories: family businesses, bookstores, farms seized arbitrarily by the state.
  • “Chavez began literally walking in the streets of Caracas...pointing at businesses ‘expropiece, expropriated’. It’s not yours anymore.” – Daniel (11:59)

Venezuela as a Hub for Authoritarians and Terrorism

• International Influence and Alliances

  • Venezuela became a key ally to Cuba, Iran, Russia, China. Cuba’s crisis ended when Chávez sent them free oil. Iranian, Russian, and Chinese companies now extract Venezuelan oil.
  • “For these regimes, having Venezuela there is both a platform to attack the United States, but also to bother the United States. They know that the drug trafficking kills Americans and harms the West.” – Daniel (44:28)

• Drug Cartels & Armed Gangs

  • The regime has become a “cartel state,” sustaining itself on drug trafficking using the military and gangs for both profit and political control.
  • State tolerance (and sometimes orchestration) of crime used as a tool for repression and regime survival.
  • “Inside Venezuela, the purpose of the gangs was to repress protests. They used these armed groups...they would shoot some people, kidnap others, torture them and defuse the protest that way.” – Daniel (54:07)

• Venezuela as a Terror Gateway

  • Direct cooperation between Venezuela and Hezbollah, FARC, ELN; reports of training camps, safe havens for militants, and the spread of organized crime internationally, including into the USA.
  • “You see now people in burqas...How did they show up there? Because they work for Iran. That’s really simple. It’s because of the Hezbollah training camps.” – Daniel (47:28)

• Criminal Export via Mass Migration

  • Some migrants crossing into the US include notorious criminals embedded among refugees; Daniel cites high-profile cases and the role of the regime in deliberately releasing or exporting troublemakers.

Lessons and Warnings for the West

• Socialist Rhetoric in the West

  • Western socialists, including Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders, praised Venezuela publicly until things collapsed. Their silence now is, for Daniel, evidence of bad faith.
  • “Venezuela was their poster boy...When it fell apart...they just walked away, and they've never mentioned it since.” – Francis (22:45)

• Policy Recommendations

  • Real solutions to high living costs are increased supply—not price controls or punitive taxes, but repealing building regulations, reforming professional licensing and labor market barriers.
  • “If you don’t want somebody that you hate in the government running your life...you shouldn’t give the government the power that socialist regimes do.” – Daniel (61:36)
  • Critique of popular “tax the rich” and “free stuff” mantras: the cost is always borne by the middle class.

• Regime Change and Possible Reform

  • Daniel advocates for international, even military, intervention to topple Maduro, arguing that sanctions and diplomatic pressure are insufficient, and that historical precedent for US intervention in Panama and Grenada was successful.
  • “If you want to see a prosperous Venezuela...the only way is for Maduro not to be in power and Venezuela become a free country again.” – Daniel (55:43)

Memorable Quotes and Moments

• On the Irreversibility of Destruction:
  "How do you not have gasoline in the country with the largest oil reserves in the world? Only in socialism." – Daniel (19:19)
• On Political Responsibility:
  “If you don’t want somebody you hate in government running your life...you shouldn’t give the government the power that socialist regimes do...” – Daniel (61:36)
• On Socialists’ Excuses:
  “If capitalism is so bad, why do you want to trade with us?” – Daniel (31:53)
• On Personal Impact:
  “My parents owned a gas station...in 2016, we were making $100 a month. That is the reality we faced.” – Daniel (27:14)
• On Why Young People Are Drawn to Socialism:
  “We’re not talking enough about the fact that the genders are politically polarized, and that especially young women are the ones that are supporting socialist parties all over the world.” – Daniel (65:32)

Timelines and Timestamps

• Venezuela's prosperity and decline: 03:43 – 09:30
• Chavez’s rise and early reforms: 09:42 – 12:06
• Collapse of private enterprise: 12:42 – 13:17
• Corruption vs. socialism debate: 16:41 – 19:05
• The ‘free stuff’ argument and Western comparisons: 20:34 – 23:53
• Stories of expropriation, loss, and gold reserves: 14:35 – 16:41
• Personal experiences: living under collapse: 27:14 – 29:02
• Excuses: US sanctions and the 'gringo' scapegoat: 29:02 – 33:56
• Drug trafficking & regime criminality: 36:09 – 38:43
• Role of gangs, crime, and mass migration: 50:05 – 54:03
• Criminal export, terrorism, & international threats: 47:14 – 48:21
• Military action/regime change debate: 55:33 – 59:17
• Policy prescription for the West: 62:51 – 64:40
• Closing reflections and warnings for young socialists: 61:15 – 62:51
• Societal polarization and the gender gap: 65:29 – 66:17

Conclusion

This sobering conversation is a comprehensive warning: Venezuela’s tragedy is not an unavoidable Latin American destiny, but the direct consequence of specific ideological and policy choices. Daniel Di Martino illustrates in vivid detail how the lure of socialism, especially when combined with charismatic leadership and unchecked state power, can destroy even the most promising societies. The episode concludes with an urgent appeal for Western youth to carefully scrutinize the policies and promises of self-styled socialists—and for policymakers to remedy economic frustrations through liberalization and innovation, not state expansion.

Next Section: Daniel answers subscriber questions on [triggerpod.co.uk Substack].