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- [00:00]
Francis Foster
I've bought two mattresses in my entire life. Both times I walked into a shop, lay on it for about four seconds and thought, yeah, that'll do. Genuinely world class decision making. Which is crazy because you spend a third of your life on the thing and most of us buy one the way you'd buy a toaster. Today's sponsor is Avocado Green Mattress. Certified organic mattresses. No polyurethane foam anywhere near them, just natural materials and they're handmade. The bit that actually got me is you don't have to buy it blind. And Avocado has real showrooms plus retail partners across the us so you can go in, lie down properly, not for four seconds and work out if it actually suits you before you pay for it. They're not everywhere yet, so check the store locator for what's actually near you. Avocado products are made, not manufactured, and thoughtfully crafted with real materials to deliver lasting comfort and support. You can experience them in person at an Avocado showroom or a premier retailer near you, or shop online at avocadogreenmattress.com trigger to check out their mattresses and furniture sale. That's avocadogreenmattresT.com trigger avocadogreenmattrasT.com trigger right, I'm going to level with you. I'm not a gamer, even though I look like one. I'm not going to pretend I've been grinding through RPGs between recordings or that I have strong opinions about which Final Fantasy was the best one. I think it's Japanese and I think there's a sword that's genuinely everything. I know. But our social media guy showed me this app and I genuinely thought that's quite clever. It's called Snaxy. Basically, game publishers need new players and they're willing to pay to get them. Snaxy just passes that money on to you. You play games you were probably going to play anyway. You earn coins and you cash them out for real rewards. PayPal, Amazon, Netflix, gift cards. If you prefer gaming credit, you can redeem for PlayStation, Xbox, Steam and Nintendo or. Or cash out your ineba wallet. I've got no idea what that means. Actual money, not just points that expire. It takes a few minutes to set up. You open the app, swipe through the game offers, pick something that looks decent, play it, earn, redeem. That's the whole thing. There's a sign up bonus worth up to $10 if you use our link, which is in the description of this episode. That's S N A K Z Y Snacksy. Click the link in the description to get started and when you sign up, use the code triggerpod. That's T R I G G E R P O D to claim your $10 bonus. And the app is mobile only, so click the link from your phone, not your laptop. We were going to talk about the by election, but tragically that has been overshadowed by events, particularly the murder of Anne Widdicombe. What is your reaction to that?
- [02:49]
Nigel Farage
The two are linked. The two are directly linked. I will need, I'm afraid, given the way the world is now, to have protection until the end of my days. And frankly, Ann Widdicombe's death is 5 million quite good reasons.
- [03:05]
Christopher Snowdon
I think there are two questions that genuinely are worth asking. Number One is this 5 million pound gift. And the other question is the posh George thing. He was convicted of wire fraud in the us.
- [03:16]
Nigel Farage
Well, hang on. Louise Hay is a convicted fraudster about to go in Andy Burnham's cabinet. The police followed up in the spring of 2025. Why is it now a story?
- [03:29]
Francis Foster
The reality is, though, that this by election hasn't. It hasn't gone to plan, has it? Nigel, welcome back on the show.
- [03:38]
Nigel Farage
Thank you.
- [03:39]
Francis Foster
Originally, when we first booked to do this interview, we were going to talk about the by election, your resignation, the challenges both you and reform are facing. But tragically, that has been overshadowed by events in the previous week, particularly the murder of Anne Whitakem. What is your reaction to that?
- [03:55]
Nigel Farage
The two are linked. The two are directly linked. The full scale attack on reform which has really gone into gear since May 7th. Why May 7th? Massive set of elections across the UK. We wipe out the Conservatives in East Anglia. Unbelievable. We take out Labour in the north of England, the Midlands. We make breakthroughs, big breakthroughs in Scotland and in Wales. And ever since that moment, the attacks on the party have been unrelenting. And really what's happening, whether it's the press, whether it's Ed Davey, whether it's other front benches, is, you know, we are extremists, racists. The most dangerous threat to Britain. We're more dangerous than Putin as a threat to Britain. We're all criminals. I mean, we're all criminals. You know, ties. Posh George, me. We should all be in prison. And this is the narrative that has been going out unendingly. And I've been in this game a long time. You know, I'm used to the rough and tumble of political debate and that's fine, actually, to some Extent. That's what democracy is. You know, we have a pop at each other and let Joe public make up their minds who they believe. But when it comes to stuff being published in mainstream national newspapers, it's just not true. Just simply not true or exaggerated beyond belief.
- [05:19]
Christopher Snowdon
What are you talking about? That's not true, Nigel.
- [05:21]
Nigel Farage
One little example is Posh George paid for all the computers in the reform office and did not. That was not declared in our donations. Well, the answer is he didn't. So you told the Sunday Times again and again and again he didn't. They publish it. And then the Times Daily Editorial writes in its editorial. These are the serious questions, just not true.
- [05:46]
Christopher Snowdon
And how are you connecting this to the murder? Do you know something that we don't about that murder?
- [05:52]
Nigel Farage
Yeah, yeah. If you demonize. If you demonize people, because I don't know, in Anne's case, they don't believe in gay marriage or they have strict views on abortion or they believe in immigration, strict immigration controls. If you absolutely dehumanize people like this, is it surprising that living out there in the subculture of those who spend their lives online and struggle to get on with other people, that this doesn't engender a form of hate? And I mean, clearly Anne's murder is, I mean, a very, very deeply upsetting thing. And I've noticed, I mean, just interesting going around the doors here in Clacton. People are really, really hit by it. I mean, just good, ordinary folk are really hit by. I can't think of anybody more famous that's been murdered for decades and decades. So there is a direct link between the two that there's no question. And it was so interesting to see the police. Devon and Cornwall police, or should we just call them what they are, Plod. Absolute waste of space. I think they're still looking for somebody that could have committed a burglary. I mean, they were so wrong about everything. Obvious to me right from the first minute. This was politically motivated, premeditated assassination of a political figure. And I would argue back to your question directly downstream of the kind of campaign that is being waged against the entire reform agenda by many online, in mainstream media, and in the House of Commons every single week. And, you know, it's not that I'm afraid of criticism, but I mean, if we sought to demonize Diane Hubbard or someone like that, I mean, we'd be made out to be the worst people in the world. Can you imagine if the murderer was a Reform Party member? I mean, we'd be closed down, we wouldn't even exist. And it's why when people say to me and commentators write, oh, well, Nigel Farage, you know, he's obviously losing his mind because he's getting angry with journalists. Yeah, I am, I'm getting really angry with journalists, particularly times journalists who choose to publish polygraphs of where my daughter lives. You know, she's not, she's not a public figure. There is no public interest in this at all. And I see what happened to Ann five days after, after that program, and I begin to get very scared about things. So, so I called this by election before Anne's murder, but I called this by election because just the daily assault, being found guilty in the media and in politics every single day without any means, effectively of being able to come back at it, and left the party in a state of paralysis. And I saw this by election as a fight back against that. And to say, right, you be my judge, you, the people, if you think I'm a crook and a wrong un, get rid of me in this election. But if you don't think that and if you think the mainstream media are out of touch, then vote for me on what is now August 13, because
- [09:09]
Francis Foster
it seems to me, and we're gonna touch on the by election. But just coming back to Anne's murder very briefly, this does seem like a watershed moment in British politics. We obviously had the murder of Sir David Amos and Jo Cox before that. But this is potentially, and I use the word potentially, the first act of left wing terrorism that certainly I can remember in this country maybe ever.
- [09:35]
Nigel Farage
Yes. I mean, the guy that killed Joe Cox was sort of a nationalist nut job. The, the, the, the, the murder of David Amos was an Islamist, clear Islamist murder. Yeah, we're not used to the concept in recent times at all of left wing terrorism, but it's pretty, pretty clearly what it is. But you know, Adam Bolton, Peter Tatchell, other well known figures in the wake of Anne's murder, just saying the most beastly things about her. I mean, the old rule is if you can't say nice things about the dead, say nothing. Which I think generally is actually quite a good rule. And yet they so believe in their own righteous virtue that they feel allowed to do these things. And I do not know of a single significant conservative commentator, small C conservative commentator, who would ever say anything approaching that on the death of a senior left wing public figure. If Jeremy Corbyn died, I say, well, they didn't agree with him, but you know what the man believed in, what he believed in and fought for it for decades. So there is a very big difference here between how the right think and speak about the left and how the left, including public figures, now think and speak about the right. And I think there will be a major reappraisal of all of this in the wake of Anne's murder.
- [11:09]
Christopher Snowdon
Well, I hope so because I've been talking about this for a very long time. I think, particularly in the post Charlie Kirk world, I just don't think, and you look at the facts of this, the Gen Z are seven times more likely to believe than people of your generation that political violence is sometimes justified. I don't think people understand the world we're living in. And I'm quite relieved actually that it seems like both Shabana Mahmoud, the Home Secretary and Andy Burnham are starting to take this more seriously. And it comes back to some, you know, you mentioned the constant attacks and questions about reform and I think, I think it's undoubtedly the case that a lot of that has been really unfair and completely out of proportion to the questions that are being raised. Some of it I think we do need to talk about and we will. But you know, the security situation speaks to the point you made about the gift you were given that there's been a lot of questions about. I was doing a back of the envelope calculation of how much it might cost to have a five man security team. 24 hour, you're looking at millions of pounds a year potentially, right, to just to keep a person safe. And as we're recording this, this will go out a couple of days after. But as we're recording this, a new story is breaking about a man who's been arrested for threatening to kill you. And the Times, I think it is the Times, the hated Times nonetheless reported that you've received more than 500 death threats in recent times. I mean, this is very serious.
- [12:37]
Nigel Farage
Oh, it's serious all right. It's been serious in my case since 2013. But no one cared. No one cared far, no one cared. Begging Home Secretaries to provide some form of intelligence support and physical support. Home Secretary after Home Secretary, we asked, not interested, not interested. But now it's not just me, now it's a whole group of political leaders within Reform, several of whom are now well known public figures. And now they are beginning in the wake of Anne's murder to take this seriously. So this morning somebody has been arrested for a series of social media posts in which he says he wants to shoot me in the head. Let me tell you, we have reported to the met in the past whole lists of similar threats made against me which we were told did not meet the threshold, did not meet the threshold. And yet when Lucy Connolly puts out an intemperate tweet and then removes it four hours later, she ends up going to prison. So the approach to all of this, you know, gets to the roots of two tier policing, two tier justice, two tier attitudes towards the way that we look at things. Maybe, maybe after the horrific and deeply upsetting murder of Anne, maybe something good will come of it. Maybe the police in this country will start to take threats Republican political figures equally regardless of their opinions and which side of the spectrum they're on. So I'm pleased the police have arrested one. If they do another 300 in the next week, I'll have real confidence.
- [14:35]
Francis Foster
So it's a fair point. So Nigel, you were sitting in Clacton here, you've called the by election.
- [14:43]
Nigel Farage
Yeah.
- [14:43]
Francis Foster
This obviously happened mere days actually before Anne's murder. Why is it that you called that by election? What made you decide that?
- [14:54]
Nigel Farage
Because I just can't put up with being called. We've been called guilty every day, you know, guilty, guilty, guilty. Everything I've ever said and done, I'm guilty. You know, I've had no chance to really fight back at all. Even when you try to, no one takes it seriously. So you know what? This is a concerted attempt to get me out of public life. That's what it is. Because they know after May 7th that actually via the ballot box our support is there and it's solid. So suddenly the reputation try and drag reform down in the polls, put them in an impossible position. Get rid of Nigel and it'll all be okay. That's what's going on perfectly clear to me. The level of coordination is astonishing and the leaks of information from the National Crime Agency are just astonishing. They do the ins and outs of bank payments of all the senior figures in reform and it's made out ah, it went to the National Crime Agency because they're clearly being looked at because they're suspect dudes or funded by the Kremlin or whatever theory is is doing the rounds at that time. Fact is that our anti money laundering regulations are so insane, something that I exposed when I fought the banks back in 2023 that 800,000 bank transactions a year get reported to the National Crime Agency. If you received an unusual payment in your account tomorrow, you know, I don't know, a gift from a family member or whatever into your bank account that would get referred to The NCA and then from the ncaa, all this stuff gets leaked to the press and I find that pretty unacceptable as well.
- [16:36]
Christopher Snowdon
It is. And I think you've. Like I said, I think you've received a lot of very unfair criticism. But I do think there's a couple of. We both think there's a couple of issues where the leak point I totally accept, by the way, and it's something that troubles me. And Dominic Cummings did warn you, he did say, they will break the law, they will do whatever they can.
- [16:54]
Nigel Farage
I hate to sit here and St Cubbins was right, you know, but actually the warning he gave was a very
- [17:01]
Christopher Snowdon
good one and he said they'll break the law and do whatever. However, I think there are two questions that genuinely are worth asking. Number one, is this 5 million pound gift. Personally, I don't give a shit about people who give money to other people. It's not something that particularly interests me. But what I think is of interest to the public is were there any strings attached? Is your pushing of crypto with the bank of England connected with that gift? That is one question. And the other question is the posh George thing, which is this is a friend of yours who gave money to both you and Reform. Gave in kind things to both you and Reform. He was convicted of wire fraud in the us.
- [17:40]
Nigel Farage
Well, hang on. Louise Hay is a convicted fraudster about to go in Andy Burnham's Cabinet. But does every BBC news report say convicted frauds are Louise Hay? Do they help?
- [17:51]
Christopher Snowdon
It does not. It's a fair question, Nigel, It's a fair question. We've always treated you fairly.
- [17:56]
Nigel Farage
No, no, no, no, But I'm just making the point. George, as a young man, got into trouble in America. If you are involved in tax avoidance schemes, it is very easy in America to get into very, very big trouble. So he has a conviction. Maybe that conviction will be pardoned one day. I don't know. That conviction is spent. There used to be a thing in Britain called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974. It meant that people actually, once they'd done their time, were forgiven and given a second chance in Life. He was 20, 21 at the time this happened. He went to prison in America. He came back and everyone said to me, oh, you must never see him again, you never speak to him again. Well, I don't do that. Don't dump people. I do actually believe in Christian forgiveness. I think it's part of what we are as a community, as a society. There are many, many people who, you know, fell off the rails as young men or women who have gone on to achieve great things in life for themselves and their communities. So that's the first point I want to make. I've stood loyally with George because I think he deserves a second chance. He is, of course, an enormously colorful character, you know, and I mean, great press all the way that the girlfriends he's had and the things he's done and, and all of it, you know, he's a very colorful character and, you know, Hesketh, his uncle, a Formula one, and mum dated the man that's now the king. And so of course, there are great reasons why he's a person of interest. But, you know, the idea that in 2023 and 2024, when I was out of politics, that I perched in an office in one of his London homes and that he helped me with a camera crew so that I could go out into the English Channel, remember, and film the boats and advertise what was going on and try and give a warning to the nation. You know, at that period of my life, from 2021 to 3 May, July, June 2024, I was a broadcaster. I was someone that appeared on celebrity TV programs, right. I was somebody that promoted some financial market products. But I was an influencer. You know, I had a considerable, Even then over 5 million social media following and I was doing it. So the fact that George, you know, did me a favor with those things is not a matter of public interest or record. It's irrelevant. I wasn't in politics. It is literally no one's business. It is totally undeclarable in every single way. And what they've written and said about since I came back on the 3rd of June, I've taken nothing from him since the 3rd of June. And he hasn't given money to the party or any of these things. And the idea that his donation or his mother's donation, this was reported to the NCA in September 2024. The police followed up in the spring of 2025. Why is it now a story? It's now a story because everything is being coordinated together to try and knock us out of the game. And that's why I'm finding this by action, I'm fighting this by election, because I'm saying let the people decide. Now on the other issues that you.
- [21:30]
Christopher Snowdon
Okay, can we just pause on the post George thing very quickly? So just to be clear, because this is different to my understanding, but I'm happy to be corrected, he hasn't given any money to you since you came back into politics or any in kind things and not nor to the party. So this is all related to the period when you weren't in politics?
- [21:46]
Nigel Farage
Absolutely.
- [21:47]
Christopher Snowdon
Okay. The only other question I had on that, I was reading a biography of yours.
- [21:52]
Nigel Farage
Oh, there are lots of those.
- [21:55]
Christopher Snowdon
And actually the one thing that comes out of it from the telling of the biographer in that case was that you actually, you can be pretty ruthless when people, you know, stray off the reservation, so to speak. And Godfrey Bloom might say, you know, loyalty is, you know, something Nigel is selective about.
- [22:14]
Nigel Farage
No, no. I'm fiercely loyal to everybody until they're disloyal to me and then it's over. Boom, done, gone. And that's why the people around me, you know, many of them have been around me for a very, very long time.
- [22:29]
Christopher Snowdon
None of us plan our summers around insurance. We plan them around whatever life actually throws at us. We had our second child this summer, which reorders your priorities fast. Nobody sent a warning at this point. Who knows where we'll be next summer. That's exactly the type of situation where you want to use something like policygenius. They're not an insurance company, they're a marketplace. The free service that compares life insurance quotes from America's top insurers side by side. The licensed team handles the paperwork. No guesswork, just clarity on coverage price terms backed by thousands of five star reviews on Google and Trustpilot. With Policygenius you can find 20 year life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. Head to policygenius.com trig to to compare life insurance quotes from the top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com trig okay, now let's come back to the gift and the strings attached and the crypto stuff and the lobbying.
- [23:28]
Nigel Farage
Well, let's deal with it separately. Number one, Christopher Harborne is an immensely successful man. They all say crypto, but actually that is. But apart of what this guy does, I think there are some things that are known in public, such as his big stake that he holds in Connecticut, the defense technology company. I think he probably owns the biggest jet refueling operation in the world. Plus his crypto investments and things he's in. So there's some of the things that he does, but he does much, much more than that. He's my age, went to school about three miles down the road from me. Not dissimilar backgrounds. He was a city trader, as I was in the early Years. And we have similar backgrounds. The difference is he's sane, so he stayed in business. And I'm loopy. So I gave it all up to do politics and become a member of the European Parliament. Christopher was politically radicalized by the Maastricht Treaty. I know that to your generation this is ancient history, but to some of us, this was the moment when the free trade club we joined went from being an European Economic Community to a European Community to a European Union with a flag and an anthem. And for many of us, that was it. So we both became completely radicalized at exactly that same period in time. He's obviously someone I know as a friend and know very, very well. He gave me this gift. Ask for it. He'd given Boris a gift, by the way, a couple of years before. That doesn't get talked about, does it?
- [25:21]
Christopher Snowdon
How much was it for?
- [25:22]
Nigel Farage
Just a million, I believe.
- [25:23]
Christopher Snowdon
Wow, that's pretty. Pretty good money as well.
- [25:25]
Nigel Farage
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he gave me a gift. A gift. Hey, you know what it's like winning the lottery? It's a very serious sum of money, and it's almost a sum of money that has caused the controversy as much as anything else until you start to think through what the implications of having security are. So he gave me this big gift and I have a legal document. It is un. Conditional. I can do what I like with it. I can spend it on the horses, I can go and buy a Ferrari. I'm a. I can do what I like with it. It's an unconditional gift, but on the understanding that I will need, I'm afraid, given the way the world is now, to have protection until the end of my days and that there are others close to me that will need, do need now a degree of protection. So it's unconditional gift. But for me, that money is there to look after me until I die. And frankly, Anne Widdicombe's death is 5 million. Quite good reasons, perhaps, in hindsight, why he gave me that gift. Now, have I broken the law? No. Have I broken tax law? No. Have I fiddled my expenses? No. Have I misused public money? No. By the way, my personal MP expenses for the last two years are zero. I've claimed nothing. I don't need to. I've got outside income. I'm really well off. I don't need to unnecessarily take money off the state. What is my crime? What is my sin? Well, my sin is that the rules of procedure or parliamentary standards, by the way, state explicitly that these rules that cover your conduct in public life, not in your private life, say that any political donations that you've received in the preceding year have to be declared. Okay, so I get elected on July 4th, and I've got to go in and meet the people you deal with, outside income, etc. I mean, within 10 minutes I'm tearing my hair up. So you're telling me I have to record all my gross income, including vat, but without the cost of running the company? Yeah. I mean, the Commons is not designed for anybody in business. I'd say to anybody, if you've got a business, forget it. I mean, the whole thing's impossible. So you're declaring all your gross income, not your net income, et cetera. But of course, this issue came up. So what did I do? I went to a top international lawyer and said, look, you tell me what to do, you tell me what to do. Is this something I should declare or not? His advice to me was, no, this gift is unconditional. It's not political. It's not related to political campaigning, it's not related to building political offices, it's not related to employing staff or political campaigning or any of these things. You do not need to declare it. Which is why I didn't declare it. Okay, then what happens? Frankly, I didn't think I'd ever hear any more about it until the NCA leak it to the Guardian. They publish it. There's a huge Ferrari. So the question is, how will Standards find, you know, a committee with four Labour MPs, one Liberal Democrat. You couldn't make this up. Really? And one Conservative. I don't know. The problem is they can make an. I mean, you know, they can make a decision. I mean, I believe if they're objective, they'll save unusual a large sum of money, but frankly, within the rules. Or they can be subjective and try and make life very difficult.
- [29:52]
Christopher Snowdon
The question that will be on people's minds, and I think you're right, that the amount is so significant that it's, you know, to the ordinary person who earns 30 grand a year, it's a sum of money that's unimaginable.
- [30:04]
Nigel Farage
I get that.
- [30:06]
Christopher Snowdon
Is what is this guy buying by giving it to you? That's what people will think.
- [30:10]
Nigel Farage
Okay, Nobody can buy me, nobody can bully me, nobody can tell me what to say. You want some evidence of that? Elon Musk. All right. Elon Musk, who was holding out offers potentially of very large sums of money, not for me, but for the party. But he asked me to do a series of things and say a series of things.
- [30:33]
Christopher Snowdon
What happened with Elon, by the way? Why did you fall out?
- [30:35]
Nigel Farage
Because he wanted me to come out publicly and support Tommy Robinson. And I said, I can't do that. I said he wanted me to come out and talk about deportations of illegals before we had a plan. When you're beginning an agitator, you can say, let's deport the world. Great for clicks if you're a political party leading the opinion polls for 350 consecutive opinion polls in a row. If you're going to make big statements like this, you need to show you've done some maths, some homework and thought it through. Now. We did, in fact, in the end, a few months after the fallout with Musk, publish Operation Restoring justice with Zir Youssef at the head of it, which actually showed what the command structure would be and how this would operate, with the aim of deporting up to 600,000 people who've entered Britain illegally. But I could have just done what Elon wanted, right? I could have just said what he wanted, no problem, we'd have taken the money, everything would have been lovely. But the point I'm making is you can't tell me what to do or say. Christopher, in return, wants nothing from me other than me to be secure and safe and not to have to worry about money. And I don't now ever have to worry about money. As long as I live, I'm not going to be fearful. Can I afford a driver? Yeah, when I'm 84, if I get there, you know, and long left public life. But because of the. Because of the online world, nothing will die anymore, will it? In terms of stories, do you know what I mean? Kind of, you know, ex politicians, ex footballers, 20 years on, could walk down the street, no one knew who they were. But because of the online world, those of us that have been seen to be controversial will have to live with that forever. So I'm enormous, by the way. I'm enormously grateful to him for doing this. It takes such a weight off my mind. Between 2021 and 2024, I was paying for all my insecurity during that. I mean, it was costing me a fortune. Now I had much lower level of security because my profile was down, but it's still very, very expensive indeed. And, yes, he's made money in crypto, you're absolutely right. And yes, I've been an advocate for crypto since 2019. This isn't going away. It's not going away. I firmly believe it's not going away. The price may be wildly volatile and it is, but in terms of usage, just go to Miami, have a look at the ATM machines, they're all Bitcoin. It's all Bitcoin's a dollar. So you take out a fraction of a bitcoin onto your card, you pay in Starbucks, you pay the hotel bill, you buy a new car. This stuff now actually is having usage around the world. And the worse and worse the banks behave, the worse and worse they behave, the more debanking, whether it's for political reasons or it's for anti money laundering reasons, goes on, the more attractive bitcoin becomes as a means of exchange. And you know, you and I want to do a transaction, we can do it together in bitcoin. You know, we're both big boys, we're grown ups. So I've long believed in it. And what upsets me is, you know, I come from a long line of people who worked in the city of London, worked in financial markets. The reason that London always did well wasn't because people wore bowler hats and it looked traditional and wonderful. Lovely though all that was, it was because it was a place of innovation. London was always the first with new financial products, with new financial markets. That's why we were world leaders at so many things. And this whole space, this whole space of crypto, of stablecoins, the means where money passes in and out of traditional currencies and through into crypto and back, which is, by the way, fast, don't have the huge charges you have for many other forms of financial transaction. And no wonder it's booming, backed by blockchain the way that it is. It's always seemed to me this was the perfect space for London to become a global center because there is demand for this stuff all over the world. And as it stands today, we do not have an exchange traded, regulated crypto product of any kind at all. People think, oh, Nigel's arguing for the wild west. No, I'm arguing for a regulated crypto market. It's the wild west. Now you can buy Bitcoin or Ethereum, you know, online from a provider that goes out of business. You've got no protection of any kind at all. They're not regulated. I mean, all sorts of terrible scams have happened in this space. What I'm arguing for is a regulated market. What I'm arguing for is that this is here to stay. It's a big thing of the future. We should be in the vanguard, we should be in the lead. And despite the fact we haven't got these things already, 7 million. 7 million British people have digital assets of some kind. And when I went to see the governor of the bank of England, wow. We disagreed on virtually everything
- [36:10]
Francis Foster
in a
- [36:11]
Nigel Farage
very lovely man, don't misunderstand me, but we disagreed on Brexit. We just read everything. And he'd said that no individual should be able to hold more than $20,000 worth of stable coins. To which I said, well, that means most of my friends will have to leave the country. I said, you're a dinosaur, Andrew. You're a dinosaur. This is happening now, of course, that then gets painted. But I'm lobbying on behalf of a cryptocurrency guy. Well, hell, whether London has a regulated market or not doesn't affect the price of Ethereum or Bitcoin he holds this stuff. Doesn't affect the price of it. It just means that more of the transactions in it could be done in London rather than in the Wild west or other financial exchanges around the world. And those that argue that somehow I'm trying to manipulate the process on behalf of my friend frankly don't understand how it works.
- [37:10]
Francis Foster
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- [39:02]
Nigel Farage
Not for them, no. It's extraordinary. Do you know the Conservative Party in this seat in 2019, seven years ago, got 31,000 votes? 31,000 votes. 72% of the vote. I think it's their second safest seat in the whole of Britain. And you read the newspapers, there's a huge Chemie bounce going on. Oh, it's off the charts. She's amazing. Oh, yes. Telegraph, Times, Mail. I mean. Oh, I mean, this woman is sweeping the floor with everybody else. The Tories are on their way back to number 10.
- [39:41]
Christopher Snowdon
He's being sarcastic for the Americans.
- [39:43]
Nigel Farage
Well, if that was true, they'd fancy their chances here, wouldn't they? Yeah, because they could publicly take me on. They could raise the questions that you've raised with me in our discussion today. They could prove me wrong or think they could prove me wrong. I don't think they would. And they could win their seat and then reform would be seriously damaged. So why aren't they standing? Why aren't they standing? Because they know they get wiped despite 30,000 votes 7 years ago. They know they would not beat me and that's why they're not standing. And the level of collusion between Restore the Tories is astonishing. Sort of mirror statements from Kemi and Rupert. And Labour new leader doesn't want to lead a party that's going to lose its deposit because the Makerfield message is we can beat reform. So, yeah, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. It would be more exciting as a contest if there were jeopardy. But it's still a real election. How is it that Josh Simons volunteering to stand aside in Makerfield is a legitimate by election? And me saying to the people of this constituency, do you think I'm a crook or not? Isn't is extraordinary. And for them not to stand, frankly, I just think they're showing contempt for the electorate. So I'd rather there was jeopardy. I'd rather there was a big challenger. It would be a lot more exciting if there was. But it is what it is and I will campaign in this by election to get as bigger endorsement as I possibly can.
- [41:26]
Francis Foster
Because the worry is it's. Well, the two candidates are you and a joke candidate. Let's be fair about that. It must be. It's not particularly edifying that every time your name gets mentioned in reference to the by election, the comedy characters then reference.
- [41:43]
Nigel Farage
But that's why they've done it. That's what they've done it. But I think it reflects more on them than it does on me.
- [41:48]
Christopher Snowdon
And I was actually, I was looking at, I mean there's a lot of the commentary talking about it like it's like a, you know, count Ben face has a real chance of winning. I mean I looked at Calcia odds, it's like 90 odd percent that, you know, it's not a serious. It's becoming not a serious thing.
- [42:04]
Nigel Farage
What if anybody on 10%, the BIM face wants to place some money, I'm quite happy to lay all of it. Probably illegal if I'm not saying that in private. Yeah, it is ridiculous. And I'd also say, I mean it does show a level of contempt. So what they're trying to do by doing this, they're trying to make the number of votes I get be as low as possible. And the problem I've got is on the doorstep people say, well Nige, we love you, but you're going to walk it, aren't you? You're going to walk it. So. So without that jeopardy, it makes it harder for me to get the vote out. I get that. I understand that. I can see their cynicism and why they've done it. But look, all you can do is your best. And by the way, I have stood in the past against the original great screaming lord such. I've stood against the pub landlord and now bim face. So I've got the full, full fluff of these candidates. And by the way, Ben fades isn't really just a. He's a left wing BBC comedy writer who's anti Brexit. So there's a bit more politics there.
- [43:09]
Francis Foster
Aren't they all?
- [43:10]
Nigel Farage
Well, BBC certainly.
- [43:12]
Francis Foster
Yeah.
- [43:12]
Nigel Farage
Look, I'd rather it wasn't that way. I agree with you.
- [43:15]
Francis Foster
Do you know what I found quite interesting is when I looked at everybody pulling out, I was like, okay, I understand the tactics when the Greens didn't run. I was like, boys, girls, whatever you want to, whatever controversial. But I was like, guys, this would be the moment you could. Because what you could do is you could garner not the pro Green vote, which, let's be fair, is a small minority Passionate though they may be, you can market it as the anti farage vote and there's a, you know, there's an outside chance you could win or certainly do some damage here.
- [43:50]
Nigel Farage
Yeah, I mean the Greens too, behaving like the uni Party behaving like the uniparty. It's quite astonishing. I agree with you. I think if the Greens have put a big run into this, they could have got a big score.
- [44:03]
Christopher Snowdon
And Nigel, you mentioned that you'd been leading the polls and have been again, I was like I was saying I was looking at cashier. I mean the, the, you guys have been predicted to win the next election and you've been leading that until about three weeks ago, at which point labor took over in the cash yields I was looking at and it stayed relatively close. It's I think 37 versus 34%. What do you attribute that flip to and do you think that will continue?
- [44:29]
Nigel Farage
Well, Starmer going is obviously a plus. I mean, you know, roll out the barrel. Let's have a party. Yeah. People like things that are new. Andy, Andy coming in is new. That was attractive. And, and, and of course the timing of him coming in and us coming under the cosh, you know, I mean, and the attempts to push Cammie and all the rest of it. I'm not overly worried about it. I'm not overly worried about it. I think the fundamental problems that the country faces are not ones, are not ones that he's going to be able to turn around. And I think his early speeches and statements are just, well, vacuous. Vacuous. As if devolution of itself is going to improve things. It can make things worse for all I know. And I think the center of gravity of the parliamentary Labour Party has now gone so far left of what we thought we were getting back in July 24th. And I think there is a major financial fiscal crisis coming. I've said it since 2024. I've predicted since 2024 that the election would not go all the way to 29. And just look at the numbers. The five year projecting borrowing figures for this government are two years in, out by 80%. It's just astonishing. I mean, they're going to have to find 120 billion quite quickly. And it would seem they're not willing to cut benefits in any way at all, which means higher taxes. And we've reached the point on taxes where higher taxes mean lower revenues, not higher revenues. You get to that tipping point, the Laffer curve. Yeah, we're increasing tax. It just starts to actually go the other way. And so I'm fearful, you know, and it isn't just, it isn't just the non doms and the wealthy leaving Britain. I mean, I mean the Tories started that, Jeremy Hunt started that. My real worry is the number of young people leaving talented, you know, I'm talking sort of late 20s to late 30s, people who perhaps have found their way in life or in their industry and that, you know what, I want to have a. I want to go on my own, build my own business. Well, tell you what, Australia is much more attractive, America's much more attractive. There many parts of the world that are far more attractive right now than staying here. So I see this exodus of talent which really depresses me and I can't see Burnham reversing any of that either. So I think we're headed for a major, major financial crunch. I don't think it's very far away.
- [47:09]
Christopher Snowdon
So.
- [47:09]
Nigel Farage
So look, am I worried? You have good times and bad times in politics. We've had a remarkable run. We have had a remarkable run for a couple of years. But there is a baseline of support out there that is still incredibly firm for us. That is not going away. And I think as a party, you know, over the course of this year we built out with spokeswomen and spokesmen in different areas, new leaders in Scotland and Wales. I've been doing everything I can to stop it being a one man band as CEO of an organization with a big budget. Most of my life for the last 18 months has been spent in the office in London, not in Parliament, not out campaigning, but acting as CEO to make sure we're building departments that really work. And I can see that that's actually coming to fruition in many, many ways. And I think our basic slogan that Britain is broken, Britain needs reform that hasn't gone away. I still believe that's enormously powerful. And I don't think you can even begin to prescribe the right medicine for the country until you're actually prepared to accept how well the patient is. And I think the Conservatives and Labour Party are both in denial over this. They both say Britain isn't broken, we've got our problems. No, no, it's fundamentally broke. Nothing works at any level. And I think we're there. We're not going to move from that position. Our job, our job is to fully roll out a program ahead of the next general election that shows how it can be turned around, explains to people that it won't be easy, it gives them the hope and belief that it can be done, that we get that right, we'll win the next election.
- [49:01]
Christopher Snowdon
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- [50:23]
Francis Foster
though, Nigel, is that Andy Burnham is going to come in. He's a better politician than Starmer. He's more charismatic, he sounds better, he wears T shirts. He wears T shirts. He likes the Stone Roses. Who doesn't like the Stone Roses? But the problem must be, the worry must be, is that he has no mandate to rule. So he comes in and in many ways, it's in his best interest to trigger a general election immediately because the more he speaks, the more he's gonna piss off certain elements of his party and the country in general. I mean, he's already come out and said, you know, the way that the Labour Party handled the Gaza situation was bad.
- [51:00]
Nigel Farage
Oh, yes, that's right. He's already kowtowing to the Palestinian activists.
- [51:06]
Francis Foster
So that being the case, isn't it in his interest to trigger a general election asap?
- [51:11]
Nigel Farage
Yes, you would have thought so.
- [51:14]
Christopher Snowdon
Do you want him to.
- [51:15]
Nigel Farage
Interesting, isn't it? Interesting, isn't it? Just before I come back to that, here we are in Essex because the ruling Conservatives tried to stop The County Council elections going ahead for two years in a row. They were only fought this year because of the court action that we at Reform took. She now doesn't want a general election and won't put up a candidate in the Clacton by election. It's sort of almost like democracy only applies when it suits us. I agree with you. I think Burnham's best chance would be in the relatively early months. But you know what? You're a career politician and he really is a career politician. This has been the whole of his life. He doesn't have other business interests or other careers he could pursue. Not from what I can see, anyway. You wait your whole life to become Prime Minister. You gamble it all and risk being a PM for less, fewer days than Liz Truss. I just think that's where the human nature bit kicks in. You know, rationally, you're right. It sort of almost won't get better than it is. But I don't think you'll do it. I don't think you do it a little like Gordon Brown didn't do it in 2008 and regretted that he didn't. I just cannot see him doing it. I could be wrong, but that's just my feeling.
- [52:40]
Christopher Snowdon
Nigel, do you worry about. I mean, we've talked all these questions
- [52:44]
Nigel Farage
are, do I worry? I mean, do I look like somebody who's worried all the time?
- [52:48]
Christopher Snowdon
Well, I wasn't going to ask you about you, actually, but the state of the country in the sense of what you're talking about, because you talk about the coming financial. The fiscal crisis, which we've had plenty of guests on the show to talk about why that's coming. And I do agree with you, it's inevitable. And we've talked about violent extremism, but what we haven't talked about is that when things are bad economically, extremism in general tends to rise. And you see now, with the rise of restore to the right of you and also on the far left now, fairly extreme voices becoming prominent. And I think it's a testament to the state of the country. Is that something that you think about?
- [53:26]
Nigel Farage
I'm worried about the rise of extremism. Yes. Also acutely worried about societal breakdown.
- [53:33]
Christopher Snowdon
Yeah.
- [53:34]
Nigel Farage
Before I came to sit down and see you chaps today, I've just been to a local business. Bad. At half 11 last Friday, five people broke in, started stealing stuff. They were disturbed, they went away, cops came, cops left. The five came back to take more stuff. The cops then didn't return. Too busy. But these five people were outed on a local Facebook group, so we know the identities of the five of them. They then returned the cash that had been stolen and the police have decided not to charge them. I worry about societal breakdown. I worry. I was with somebody else this morning who said he was in Bristol at the weekend. I saw a bloke in a supermarket with a rucksack filling it up with 40 quid bottles of gin, with store detectives saying, don't do that. I just coolly walk out of the shop. I worry about the. I'm a societal breakdown. The lack of sense of community, the way that lawlessness is just expanding in the most extraordinary way. I worry about that too. I really, I genuinely do.
- [54:54]
Christopher Snowdon
Nigel, I want to get a few questions in from our supporters. So before we head over to that, the last question, as you know, is always the same. What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?
- [55:03]
Francis Foster
Before Nigel answers a final question at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our substack. The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.
- [55:13]
Christopher Snowdon
Would you make amends with Rupert Lowe and work together with the RESTORE Party? What is Reform's plan to bring back all the talent and capital that have fled the country over the past decade?
- [55:23]
Francis Foster
Please paint us the picture of what it'd be like when you're the PM locally, nationally and internationally.
- [55:29]
Nigel Farage
The one thing we're not talking about enough, and I was inspired a bit on this by Francis and the work you did about being a teacher in a London out of London barra. The one thing we're not talking about enough is the huge numbers of young kids who've got great potential and great talent, be it in academics, be it in sport, be it in whatever field of life it may be, who find themselves going to state schools in Britain's cities, which frankly, in many areas barely look like Britain because of all the different languages that are spoken and because of the sort of breakdown of civility and law and order and respect are not fulfilling their potential in life. And even though this Labour government tries to make it harder for anyone to be privately educated with their VAT bills, the 7% that go to private schools are now dominating Britain in a way they haven't done a very, very long time. And so social mobility is going backwards and not forwards. And there is a tragedy going on in education in Britain, cities where people are not fulfilling their potential. And that for them and for us as a country, is a disaster.
- [56:43]
Christopher Snowdon
There you go, Nigel. Farage endorses Uneducated by Francis Foster available in all good bookshops, but sales might go down as well after this, if such a thing is possible. Nigel, thanks for coming back on. It's always great to have you head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where Nigel's going to answer a few of your questions.
- [57:04]
Francis Foster
Can you articulate examples of the laws and policies that you want to enact that would both demonstrate that you have compassion for non native Brits and that your intentions are fair and reasonable?
- [57:21]
Nigel Farage
Sam.