Episode 4: No time to grieve

Summary

Troubled Waters — Episode 4: "No Time to Grieve"

Podcast: Troubled Waters (Casefile Presents)
Date: June 16, 2024
Episode Overview:
This deeply emotional episode examines the period following the tragic death of Louisa Ioannidis’ mother, Helen, and how that loss triggered a downward spiral leading directly to Louisa’s own vulnerability, isolation, and dangerous relationship with her boyfriend, Jo. Through vivid recollections, family and friends paint a picture of a young woman trapped in a cycle of coercive control and violence, and of a flawed support system that failed her repeatedly. The episode questions not only how the tragic circumstances arose but also explores why support services weren’t able to reach Louisa before her untimely death.

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Main Theme and Purpose

The primary focus is on tracing the emotional and psychological aftermath of Helen's sudden death on New Year's Day 2009, highlighting the traumatic impact on Louisa, her descent into an abusive relationship, the nature of coercive control, and the intersectional failings of police and social support systems intended to protect vulnerable women.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Sudden Loss of Helen (Louisa's Mother)

• [02:08–04:10] The Ioannidis family welcomes in 2009. Overnight, tragedy strikes as Helen dies from an asthma attack, leaving her children devastated.

  • Tas (Louisa’s brother):

    “It was different this time. Made my way to the hospital and they pretty much pronounce her a vegetable, like her brain had sustained damage because of the lack of oxygen…having to turn those machines off, that’s it. That’s my mum’s episode.” (03:30–04:10)

  • Tas expresses deep regret for not being with his mother that night.

• [04:37–05:29] Louisa and Helen had a loving but volatile relationship.

  • Friends note Louisa’s rebelliousness was typical for the mother-daughter dynamic, not a lack of love or gratitude.

• [05:40–07:38] Neighbor Kaz reflects on Helen's strength as a single mother and the tragedy of her sacrifices ending in such loss:

  • Kaz:

    “She was fierce as well…like, she really didn’t let anything. Like, I saw her battle with grown men and I’m like, I’m right with ya. Like, I’m not scared either…Helen was beautiful. And the girls were just her life. And it did break her sometimes...” (05:40–06:57)

2. The Family Unravels After Helen’s Death

• [07:38–08:09] Louisa, deeply dependent on her mother, spirals, unable to cope with the loss.
  • Tas:

    “These girls couldn’t do without my mum…Louisa didn’t last long without her.” (07:57–08:09)

3. The Infiltration of Jo and Breakdown of Support

• [08:09–09:22] Louisa’s boyfriend, Jo, moves in under the pretense of support, but rapidly destabilizes the home, alienating Louisa’s sister and the supportive community.
  • Kaz on Jo:

    “He’d moved in, taken full control of the unit, who was coming in. I heard him even fighting with Louisa’s sister at times…” (08:38–09:22)

4. The Emergence and Escalation of Domestic Abuse

• [09:22–12:09] Friends (notably Indigo) and family recount witnessing, in detail, Jo’s physical aggression and controlling behavior.

  • Indigo:

    “Jo slapped Louisa across the face. Yeah, that’s right. He slapped her… I remember that I was shitting myself when he’d done it. I didn’t talk up…” (09:28–10:13)

  • The household parrot mimicked Jo screaming at Louisa:

    “Gina started saying, screaming… ‘Jo, stop, stop. Enough, Jo, enough.’ And it was like, when you heard Gina, like, you got goosebumps.” (10:21–11:05)

• [12:09–13:16] Jo’s control extends to all aspects of Louisa’s life: where she could go, who she could see, even her finances.

5. Coercive Control: Expert Insights

• [13:27–14:59] Domestic violence expert Betty Taylor (Red Rose Foundation) explains coercive control:
  • Betty Taylor:

    “When we talk about coercive control, the broadest definition is really looking at how constricted someone’s life has become in their decision making...it’s more about her and her life and the freedom that she has in her life…” (13:27–14:59)

6. Attempts to Reach Out and Cycles of Return

• [15:16–16:12] Friends reflect on the hopelessness they felt each time Louisa left and then returned to Jo after incidents of abuse.

  • Indigo:

    “That’s the part I’ve kind of blocked out the most. And I feel like the reason I’ve blocked that out is because at that stage it was obvious that this wasn’t going to end nicely.” (15:16–15:41)

• [16:31–17:27] Why do survivors return to abusive partners? Expert Jolene Allitt (Dart Institute):

  • Jolene Allitt:

    “Hold on a minute. It’s not a matter of going back. We need to focus on the perpetrator’s behaviors...it may be that that is the safest option for that survivor at that point.” (16:44–17:27)

7. Police Involvement and Systemic Failures

• [17:27–18:54] Neighbors start to intervene, calling police as Jo’s violence worsens.

  • Kaz:

    “Even when we used to go and speak to him, I’m like… you’re actually petrifying all of our children because we can hear you. My kids are crying, can you just stop?” (18:32–18:54)

• [19:40–20:03] Louisa’s own words (read by actor) to police about her fear:

  • “Over the past three or four days, Jo has treated me so bad that I’ve been too scared to leave my flat...” (19:40–20:03)

• [23:23–24:08] Louisa discloses escalating violence to police—pushing, slapping, boiling water poured on her—yet police see no visible injuries and no charges proceed.

  • Indigo confirms:

    “She explained that they’d had a fight and he poured the boiling water from the kettle on her and then taken her to the hospital...” (24:08–24:33)

8. Patterns of Non-Engagement and Missed Opportunities

• [25:32–25:41] Louisa’s police statement:

  • “I think I really need to stop seeing Jo. I don’t want to proceed with any criminal charges against him. I make this decision of my own free will.” (25:32–25:41)

• [26:15–27:46] Police and support workers attempt follow-up visits; Louisa is marked as “refusing to engage.”

  • Kaz questions this label:

    “I don’t think she felt confident with the police at that point… she just felt like, just forgotten.” (27:05–27:46)

  • Betty Taylor (expert):

    “She didn’t refuse support at all. They didn’t engage with her. That’s how that should have been written up...” (36:58–37:36)

9. Final Incidents Before Louisa’s Death

• [32:01–34:09] June 2011 altercation; Jo assaults Louisa, and police finally charge him with assault; Louisa’s own handwritten words are read aloud:

  • “Jo came out to the car, grabbed me on the shoulder by the hair and dragged me out of the car… ‘Shut the fuck up and get inside, you fucking dog’…” (32:59–34:09)

• Kaz testifies to Jo's unashamed public violence:

  “He would drag her out of the unit, into the driveway, in the car. She’d be screaming and he’d just lock the door…” (34:13–34:30)

10. A System That Couldn’t (or Wouldn’t) Protect

• [34:32–36:58] Despite criminal charges, Jo fails to appear at court, is re-bailed, and is pending trial when Louisa is found dead. Police and support workers continue to label her as failing to engage, rather than acknowledging systemic failure.

• [38:15–38:44] Professor Kerry Carrington (Law & Society, USC) critiques the coroner’s report:

  • “She was obviously enmeshed in a cycle of domestic coercive control, but I do think, though, that that was very much diminished in the coroner’s report...” (38:15–38:44)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “At the end of the day, that’s what’s most hurtful, that she went through all this drama and to have the outcomes that we have now with Louisa gone. And for what?” — Tas (07:11)
• “This is not love or kindness or respect. He does not love you.” — Kaz, on Jo's control (16:12)
• “Jo is continuously taking my car without asking and without my permission. Police attended at my friend's house and I've made the statement of my own free will.” — Louisa, handwritten police statement (32:59–34:09)
• “She didn’t refuse support at all. They didn’t engage with her. ...She wasn’t able to engage. She wasn’t safe to engage.” — Betty Taylor (36:58–37:36)
• “He was a very, very great manipulator.” — Nurse Helen on Jo (28:07)
• “Louisa was found to have died with no suspicious circumstances in a manner consistent with drowning. Despite facing assault charges at the time of her death, Joe would later claim to police that he never once hit Louisa.” — Host (37:36–38:15)
• “Louisa, he's going to kill you…because of how psycho he was.” — Indigo (29:28–29:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:08–04:10| The sudden death of Helen; Tas reflects on the loss | | 05:40–06:57| Kaz describes Helen's sacrifices and struggles as a single parent | | 09:28–10:13| Indigo recalls first witnessing Jo's violence towards Louisa | | 10:21–11:05| The parrot Gina mimics Jo's abuse, alarming Indigo | | 12:09–13:16| Jo's escalating control over Louisa's life | | 13:27–14:59| Betty Taylor explains coercive control | | 16:44–17:27| Jolene Allitt reframes "returning" to abusers in violence prevention | | 19:40–20:03| Louisa’s statement to police about being scared to leave her flat | | 24:08–24:33| Louisa tells Indigo Jo poured boiling water on her | | 25:32–25:41| Louisa’s conflicted police statement: wants to leave but won’t press charges| | 27:05–27:46| Kaz shares why Louisa felt unsupported by the police | | 32:59–34:09| Louisa's handwritten statement about the June 2011 physical assault | | 36:58–37:36| Betty Taylor's sharp critique of police/service response | | 38:15–38:44| Prof. Kerry Carrington's critique of the coroner’s report |

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Flow and Language: Retelling in the Speakers’ Tone

The episode’s tone is raw, direct, and emotionally charged, using the lived language of victim, family, and witnesses. The storytelling is unflinching, relying on firsthand accounts and using quotes—some filled with strong language and anguish—to convey the relentless pressure Louisa experienced.

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Summary and Takeaway

Episode 4: "No Time to Grieve" lays bare how a confluence of personal tragedy, predatory coercion, and chronic system failures left Louisa increasingly isolated and vulnerable to serious harm. Friends and family tried, in their ways, to intervene, and Louisa repeatedly reached out to authorities—yet the police and support services proved insufficient, often due to bureaucratic misunderstanding of victim behaviors or lack of suitable engagement strategies. The episode raises the uncomfortable reality that had support systems functioned differently, Louisa’s fate may have changed.

Crucially, the episode invites listeners to question how victim stories are interpreted, how dangerous relationships maintain their hold, and what real support might look like for survivors of coercive control.

Listen if you want:

• An honest, harrowing portrayal of the lived reality of domestic abuse
• A critical examination of systemic responses to family violence
• To understand the cascading effects of trauma, loss, and isolation in vulnerable families

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For more resources or to seek help, the episode urges listeners to contact local or national support services.

Transcript

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[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

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[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

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[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

This podcast contains content that may be upsetting to some listeners. Before continuing, please prioritise your own wellbeing and mental health. Please check the show notes for more detailed descriptions of the episodes and a warning. Strong language is used in this episode. As Melbourne counted down to the start of 2009, the night was abuzz with the sounds of celebration. Crowds had gathered on the banks of the Yarra river, cheering and embracing each other as fireworks illuminated the sky above. The Ioannidas family were also out celebrating, with Helen, her son Tass, and her daughters scattered throughout the city, each enjoying the festivities in their own way. They were all blissfully unaware that their lives were about to be shattered. Episode 4 no Time to Grieve When Tess woke up on New Year's Day 2009. She. He looked at his phone and was confronted with a heartbreaking message from Louisa about their mother, Helen. After leaving a celebration dinner during the wee hours of the morning, Helen had collapsed from an asthma attack while making her way back to her car.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

I got the message later in that morning when I turned my phone on that Mum was in hospital. At that point, I thought it was just a recurrence because she'd gone down this path before, where she was found unconscious and taken to hospital because of an asthma attack. So she'd gone down that path before. I'm thinking, okay, here we go again. But it was different this time. It was different. Made my way to the hospital and they pretty much pronounce her a vegetable, like her brain had sustained damage because of the lack of oxygen.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Four days after Helen's asthma attack, she. Her life support was turned off and.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

There was no signs, nothing, nothing at all of any improvement on the third or fourth day. Decided just to let her, let her go. And I must say, that was the most difficult decision, difficult moment of my life that I've had to go through. You know, having to turn those machines off. That's it. That's my mum's episode. So another regret. Why I couldn't I be with her that night? Why do I have to go elsewhere? Why couldn't I just spend that New Year's with her?

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

The passing of their beloved mother left her children utterly devastated. Despite Louise's rebellious nature, often clashing with Helen's strict parenting style, there was no denying the depth of the love that existed between them.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

She was always very grateful to be here. She loved her mum. It wasn't that she didn't love her mum, she loved her mum. And when her and her mum got along, they really, really got along. And even when she was pushing back on her mum, it wasn't that they didn't get along. It was her mum was just being, you know, like European mum. Like, no, you shouldn't do that, would slap her on the arm or, you know. But it wasn't that when she came home, they'd be fighting or anything like that. It would be like her mum told her no. It was like her mum's job was to tell her no. And her job was to kind of push up, like, go against the grain a little bit. But she was always grateful for her mum and what her mum had done for her bringing her here.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Neighbours at the Seston street property, including Caz, also tried their best to support Louisa and maintain the safe home. Helen had tried so Hard to create for her girls while she was alive.

[Neighbour Kaz]

She had a hard life, but she always wanted to do better for her daughters. You know, she worked really hard to provide a safe home and that was really important to her. And I think that's something that we really connected on as well. Cause we all sort of look out for each other, you know, as mums, as women. We're single mums. Even when I got divorced, she was still looking out for me. Telling me when my ex husband was breaking into my house and sitting at my table, I said, oh, thanks Helen, appreciate it. But she was fierce as well. Like, she really didn't let anything. Like I saw her battle with grown men and I'm like, I'm right with ya. Like, I'm not scared either. So she was really strong in that way. And I looked at her and I got a lot of inspiration myself. Like, come on, get up. So she was, she was beautiful. Helen was beautiful. And the girls were just her life. And it did break her sometimes of. Is it because they haven't got a dad or. She used to ask me, you know, the kids haven't grown up with a solid male. And I said, oh, that's my worst nightmare for my daughters, you know. But she was fierce. She was a fierce woman. And I tell ya, she loved those girls. You could just see it. And it was hard for Tas.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

He would never forget that New Year's and the tragic turn it took for his family. The hardest part was reconciling the heroic act of escaping Libya in search of a better life in Australia, only for tragedy to strike again and so soon.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

At the end of the day, that's what's most hurtful, that she went through all this drama and to have the outcomes that we have now with Louisa gone. And for what?

[Neighbour Kaz]

For what?

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

She lost her life. I mean, in vain. In vain. All her efforts, you know, it just took so much out of her, but, you know, she's my hero in many respects. To see all this unfold was just tragic. Was just tragic.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

As February 2009 rolled over, Louisa should have been celebrating her 22nd birthday and the promise of a bright future ahead. Instead, she found herself mourning the loss of her beloved mother. The mother that had fought so hard for her daughters to have the very best life they could in Australia.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

These girls couldn't do without my mum. These girls was very, very dependent on my mum, you know, and it just shows Louisa didn't last long without her.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

With Louisa and her sister struggling to come to terms with the Loss of their mother and the glue that held them together. Louise's boyfriend Joe made the decision to move back in with them full time at the Seston street property. While this may have sounded like an honourable thing to do, many of Louisa's friends had by this stage become concerned about their relationship. The close knit little community Kaz had built at Seston street with Helen suddenly changed overnight.

[Neighbour Kaz]

It completely disintegrated because. Because he was bringing in so many people into the unit. Day and night, cars, people just walking up the driveway and we're like, what is this going to turn into? You know, who are all these men and women coming in? He'd moved in, taken full control of the unit, who was coming in. I heard him even fighting with Louisa's sister at times. Cause Louise's sister, she didn't back down from him at that time either. And then that's when Louisa said, well, you need to go, you need to leave our house. Safety. I think she did it as a safety thing. And Louisa's sister, then she moved out.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Other friends, such as Indigo, say they had already witnessed Jo's aggressive behaviour towards Louisa.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Jo slapped Louisa across the face. Yeah, that's right. He slapped her across the face. Like, I can remember that vividly now, like they were sitting on this futon couch.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Indigo is remembering an earlier time when Jo and Louisa had come over to her house. Indigo's partner at the time was out. And when Jo and Louisa had started to argue about something trivial, Jo had responded with aggression. Indigo was so shocked by what she says she witnessed, she was speechless.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Yeah, so I remember that I was shitting myself when he'd done it. I didn't talk up. But I remember when my partner at the time got home, he was like, why haven't I told him? And he's like, you and like, he's not coming here alone with you and her again.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

There was also the time Indigo visited Louisa and became even more concerned about what was happening behind closed doors.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

There was another time I went there for a coffee and they had this bird, Gina, and she was like this talking bird. But when I say talking bird, this bird was. It was quite expensive bird, it was a big parrot. And she used to repeat everything that she heard. So we were there one day and Gina started saying, screaming, mimicking Jo, but saying, jo, stop, stop. Enough, Jo, enough. And it was like, when you heard Gina, like you got goosebumps. And I just looked at Louisa like, what the is that? And she's like, gina, stop, stop. And she shut the Glass door. Cause it was like a really small kitchen and the courtyard was really small. Gina's, like, right next to us, essentially. And I just looked at her and I was, like, shaking my head. And she's like, don't. Don't.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

With hints of the difficulties Louisa was facing, her older brother, Tas, felt an overwhelming sense of duty to support and look after her. He regularly contacted her, encouraged her to continue her studies, and even provided her with financial assistance on occasion. But with Jo in the house, things were much more complicated. Family friend, Nurse Helen.

[Nurse Helen]

I went to the house they were living in Preston, near Northlands, and he was there. And he basically, you know, in a nice way, told me to leave, that he's controlling the house now. He's the man of the house. And Louisa said, excuse me. She's like a Naanti to us, you know, go away. And then he pushed her and he pulled her hair. And then I said, who do you think you are? And then I was talking to the girls in Greek and I said, you know, you need to leave. What are you doing? This isn't healthy. How could you? This is part of your mother's problem. And, you know. And then Tas came as well. And Tas was just sick of it.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Tas was just sick of it. As Indigo puts it, Jo had control.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Of, like, the whole house, the situation, what they did. Louisa couldn't go out with friends. There was nothing like that. I don't even know if Louisa had a lot of, like, money to her. Like, I think he even controlled money, the friends. She saw, stuff like that. So Louisa kind of repeated what she did with her mum. So if she could get a moment where she could take off and go see friends, she would take off and go see friends and not pick up her phone for hours, knowing that when she went home, she would cop it, rather than being living with him and them seeing their friends together. That's how she started seeing friends and going out with friends. So she was kind of repeating what she did with her mum, just with Jo. But then, obviously, he was like. He was more open with, like, slapping her. Just say so. One day we were there and she said something again. It was like, oh, f. Off, Jo. Or what are you talking about, Jo? Or Shut up, Jo. And you'd sit there and you'd watch her and you'd think, shut up, Stop. Just stop talking back to him. Cause you know what? You're gonna cop. And he slapped her across the back of the head and she's like, joe. But I was Like. Cause she was standing facing her back to me and he hit her over the back of the head.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Alongside the alleged instances of physical violence, friends and family observed signs Louisa was grappling with what we now recognise as coercive control.

[Acast Announcer]

Eddie Taylor. I'm the CEO of the Red Rose Foundation. It's a national organisation set up to support women at risk of high risk, high harm, domestic violence, as well as a prevention and an intervention organisation. You know, when we talk about coercive control, the broadest definition is really looking at how constricted someone's life has become in their decision making. You know, as someone out there controlling them to the point that they've got sort of limited ability with their own decision making. And as all that decision making starting to be influenced by another person. And that's often hard to do. You know, it's almost like with taking that time with the victim and unpacking it and like seeing, oh, my God, who's in the driver's seat here, who's running the show. And I think that tells you a lot about, you know, what are her three choices? Rather than starting to look, you know, is he checking the phones or doing all of these other activities? It's more about her and her life and the freedom that she has in her life and the freedom of choices. How diminished has that become? Because, you know, sometimes that's what victims and others around them don't see. You know, they might see, oh, he's so caring, you know, he's always looking out for her, but at the end of the day, he's probably not. It's controlling her.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Louise's alleged experience of coercive control would have undoubtedly contributed to the instability in her relationship, as it was also marked by frequent breakups. For friends like Indigo, news of their breakup was always met with a sense of relief.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

I feel like the part that I've blocked out the most is that part of the friendship where I was around her and Jo. But it was that real toxic part after her mum died. That's the part I've kind of blocked out the most. And I feel like the reason I've blocked that out is because at that stage it was obvious that this wasn't going to end nicely.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

By November 2009, Louisa and Jo were going through yet another turbulent breakup. After splitting up a few weeks earlier, Jo was no longer living at the Seston street property. On this occasion, it began with an unexpected visit from him, which Kaz says quickly turned into him being verbally abusive towards Louisa. Neighbours say they observed a disturbing pattern of abuse, one that they were starting to regularly witness firsthand.

[Neighbour Kaz]

I'm like, louisa, what? What are you doing, love? Come on. This is not love or kindness or respect. He does not love you. I'm like, you gotta stop letting him come back. We've got you, we're all gonna protect you. I even said, I'll take you to my aunty's house in New South Wales.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

So the age old question arises, why do people keep going back to toxic relationships? Domestic violence expert Jolene Allitt from the Dart Institute Australia.

[Jolene Allitt (Domestic Violence Expert)]

I've spoken to a lot of survivors that have been in and out of Women's Refuge and I hear from the workers, oh, how many times does she need to go back to him? And I always stop them there and go, hold on a minute. It's not a matter of going back. We need to focus on the perpetrator's behaviours. To what extent is his coercion and control so great that at this time her only safest option is to return? So we need to be able to focus on, you know, the perpetrator's layers of coercion and control and what that means for a survivor in assessing risk, because at that point in time, it may be that that is the safest option for that survivor at that point.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

So as the altercation that particular day grew increasingly heated, concerned neighbours rang police. These were the same neighbours who had previously remained silent while Joe cast a dominating presence over Louisa's mother when she was still alive. They were the same neighbours who remained tight lipped as he quickly moved in and gained even more control over Louisa after her mother's death. But this time they couldn't just sit back and watch. As the situation escalated, it wouldn't have been an easy decision to ring the police that day. People from that neighbourhood minded their own business and didn't expect police to provide any kind of premium service. But her neighbour Kaz must have hoped police attendance would serve as a catalyst for Louise's second chance at freedom. This time not after escaping Libya, but as a single woman in Australia. This was the first known interaction Louisa had with police about her tumultuous relationship. Sadly, it wouldn't be the last.

[Neighbour Kaz]

Even when we used to go and speak to him, I'm like, jo, can you just stop? Like you're actually petrifying all of our children because we can hear you. My kids are crying, can you just stop? Really? Oh, it's not my fault. And I had a bad day and I'm like, no, Stop. Otherwise I'm gonna just keep calling the police.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

As January 2010 approached, it marked the one year anniversary of Helen's death and the couple's living situation had become increasingly intertwined. Jo had once again moved back in and taken up full time residence with Louisa at the Ceston street housing unit. Valentine's Day in 2010 saw police responding to another call from Louisa's unit, this time at her request. Louisa had reached breaking point, informing the police that she had been experiencing mounting levels of conflict with her partner for the last three to four days. A statement from Louisa given to the police at that time gives us a glimpse into her thoughts. This statement will be read by a voice actor.

[Voice Actor (Reading Louisa's Statements)]

Over the past three or four days, Jo has treated me so bad that I've been too scared to leave my flat. What I mean by that is we've been arguing over little things like why there wasn't any food in the house or why the cat hadn't been fed, stuff like that. When he's like this, I tend to just keep to myself and isolate myself and try not to get other people involved.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

We will be back after a short break.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

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[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

When Louise's friend Indigo couldn't reach her on her birthday, she contacted Jo who told her to come over and see Louisa herself. Indigo had no idea what had been going on and Louisa had tried to keep the issues between her and Jo under wraps.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

So there was this incident where Louisa did ask for help and essentially I did help her or tried my best to help her, but Louisa ended up going back. That incident was on her birthday. So I rang her on her birthday, rang her in the morning, happy birthday, coming to see you. So at the time I went there, I rocked up with my boyfriend at the time and as I was coming to the door I'm like, hello. And Jo answered the door and he's like your friend? And he's just screaming like I couldn't even actually understand. He goes, she's effed mate. And I'm like, where is she? And he's like pointed upstairs. So I run upstairs and Louisa was in the fetal position on the bed. And she was crying and she couldn't breathe and she was like, just saying my name and then I was like, hugging her. And then he came up and he's like, all she wants is drugs, mate. All she wants is drugs. Is like, get her drugs. That's what she wants. And I'm like, jo, stop. Just stop. And he kind of wouldn't stop. And then I said, how about you go home? And then my boyfriend, or ex boyfriend, but person I was dating at the time, was standing there at the doorway and I said, take him home. So they started walking down the stairs. And the way my partner at the time described it was he let him walk out and then he pulled the door shut and locked the door and ran back upstairs. So at that point, my partner at the time was like, they're both in the house with him and he's absolutely going psycho. So he's come running upstairs and I can't remember for the life of me what he was saying. He was screaming something and he was trying to come at her. And then I ended up like. He went to jump for her and I ended up jumping on top of her. And I remember I had her under me and he was over the back of me hitting her, but he was actually getting me and he was just. He was screaming. And then he came back. Like, he. He came. He got off her and he's like, get the f out of here to me. And I didn't want to leave. And then he had something in his hand. I can't remember, there was a pair of scissors. Maybe it was something. And he was like, get out of here. And then she whispered in my ear, just go. And I said. I whispered, I'm calling the police. So I walked out. Not that I wanted to, but I walked out and I got in my car and I parked around the corner and I called the police. Anyway, we were parked around the corner and then he came around the corner in her mum's car, which was her car. It was like a CRV kind of car. He came around and he spotted me in the court and he pulled in the court and he just started hurling abuses at me and then he took off.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Police arrived soon after, although Louisa told them everything that had happened, including allegations of being pushed, shoved and being slapped across the face and head. Police at the time didn't observe any visible injuries when they arrived. This discrepancy is worth noting. As Louisa sat with police, she must have felt a glimmer of hope, a chance to unburden herself of the weight of her trauma. It was then that she revealed the true extent of her allegations, including a previously unreported incident where she said Jo had poured boiling water on her. Speaking to Indigo, this was also an allegation Louisa had shared with her in confidence.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

So she explained that they'd had a fight and he poured the boiling water from the kettle on her and then taken her to the hospital. So she didn't tell me what the fight was about, but she was telling me the level of things he had done to her. So there were incidents like this that she had told me and confided in me about that I knew he was hitting her. There were times that she had, like, a black eye because he would just smack her, like he was abusive.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

A particular aspect about this story catches my attention. According to Louise's disclosure, after Joe allegedly poured boiling water over her, he drove her to the hospital for medical treatment. This detail raises a compelling question, if true, was this a genuine act of remorse on Jo's part? Domestic violence expert Jolene Allitt.

[Jolene Allitt (Domestic Violence Expert)]

So, in terms of remorse, offenders can demonstrate remorse after an abusive offence. However, there are many layers and that sense of feeling remorse, whether that to be genuinely repulsed by their own actions or have feelings of guilt for harming or degrading or shaming another, where shame creeps into their own sense of self, really depends on the perpetrators.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

The following words were written by Louisa in her summing up of her statement to police.

[Voice Actor (Reading Louisa's Statements)]

I think I really need to stop seeing Jo. I don't want to proceed with any criminal charges against him. I make this decision of my own free will.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

In this instance, police ultimately did not proceed with criminal charges and instead arranged for Louisa to receive crisis accommodation.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

They ended up getting back together and then after that, our friendship was quite limited. So that was the first time she kind of asked for help. There was another time that she came and stayed with me when I was house sitting at my dad's and she'd fought with Jo, wasn't speaking to him for a couple of days, just wasn't picking up the phone. But they were kind of like the breaks that she would have from Jo, like she would crack the shit. Enough is enough. Come and stay with a friend for a week. But you'd always go back.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

After the unsettling Valentine's Day incident, police tried to follow up with Louisa by phone in April and May. On both occasions, there was no answer. Later, in May 2010, police and a worker from Bury Street Family Violence Services visited Louisa's unit to conduct a welfare check. Despite police believing Louisa and Jo had separated, it was Jo who answered the door and claimed Louisa wasn't home.

[Acast Announcer]

That's where things are very complex because a lot of women just want the violence to stop and they want their partner to come back.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

And as police waited with Jo at the house, waiting for Louisa to return, when she did arrive home, police noted she seemed uneasy and reluctant to speak with them.

[Neighbour Kaz]

I think when the police used to come after like hours and she didn't really feel, I think that there was any real follow through. So I don't think she felt confident with the police at that point in her life because he just kept coming back and then you'd ring and really he wasn't held or whatever he went through in that process. I've got no idea, but I think she just felt like, just forgotten. Oh, well, they look at me, you know, I'm on drugs, I'm a bit out of control or, you know, maybe if she had any trouble when she was younger, I'm not sure, but yeah, definitely. I think she felt very let down, to be honest.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

On this occasion and with Jo by her side, she informed police she had reconciled with him. She felt secure and assured the officers that no further violence had occurred. Other people in her circle, such as Nurse Helen, strongly doubted that it was a disaster.

[Acast Announcer]

It was really, really ugly.

[Nurse Helen]

And I said, well, why are you still with him?

[Acast Announcer]

Just, you don't need to be with him. Oh yeah, but you know, he apologises. The usual visual story, you know, when he knew that, you know, Louisa was really had got her strength and was trying to avoid him, he would charm her with gifts. He was a very, he's a very, very great manipulator.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Perhaps in an attempt to alleviate any concerns, Louisa also disclosed she was planning on travelling to Greece soon with her sister for an extended period of time. It may have seemed like Luisa was trying to reassure the police with a white lie about her travels to Greece, but in fact this was every bit the truth. Louisa's sister had become increasingly worried about the hold Jo had over Louisa. So she had surprised her with a two month trip to Greece as a chance to start anew without him.

[Nurse Helen]

From what the younger sister said, it was hell because every day Jo would ring. Every day Jo would ring her and ring her and it was, they both decided and I both agreed with the girls, it's best to go overseas, go and see your grandma and have a clean slate. And then as soon as I got to the plane, Jo was waiting off the plane. Joe was waiting for them. And then he was a nightmare after that. Then he was a downhill.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Indigo also had similar reservations about Louisa coming back from Greece.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

And I was like, why did you come back? Like, why wouldn't you have stayed there that day? I remember sitting at the table with her and she was saying, he's crazy, he's crazy. And I turned around to her, I'll never forget, and I said, louisa, he's going to kill you. I said, he's going to kill you one day because of how psycho he was. He was just crazy. It was just being around him was scary.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Back in Melbourne, it seemed that nothing had changed and Louisa was once again in Jo's grasp. At this point, it's important to note that we asked Joe to be involved with this series and he declined. That means we can't put these matters to him and get his version of events. All we can do is listen to the stories of Louise's family and friends and keep an open mind about what happened. Despite the challenges Louisa faced in her home life, she remained determined to secure stable employment. Paperwork found among her belongings after she died suggests that at one point she even explored the possibility of applying to become a flight attendant, although it doesn't seem to have gone beyond the initial stages.

[Neighbour Kaz]

So when Louisa had jobs, he would always expect her to support him as well. So if she ever said no to him, he would be like, well, where's all the money going? You know, and just question what she was doing. Because he didn't like her having the job and having her own money, because obviously that meant her independence and she didn't have to be dependent on him and he wanted her to be dependent on him. And then every time she gave him money, it would be for drugs and whatever else he was doing.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

By January 2011, it had been two years since Louisa had lost her beautiful mother, Helen. Within those two years, life had been anything but smooth sailing. Louisa hadn't remained at the property she'd once lived at with her mother and sister, but now, with her mother gone, her sister had also moved out and their relationship had become estranged, mostly over her decision to move Jo in. Neighbour Kaz can still recall some of the alleged conversations that exposed Jo's own insecurities.

[Neighbour Kaz]

I remember that all the time. If I can't have you, no one will have you. He was just. I felt like he was so insecure in himself when he saw Louisa being with her friends and outgoing and confident and brave and beautiful. He just hated it. He Hated it with a passion.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

On a quiet Monday afternoon in June 2011, four months before Louisa's death, tensions boiled over as Jo and Louisa engaged in a heated argument at home. The cycle of violence that had become all too familiar soon escalated when, according to Louisa, Joe demanded Louise's car keys and resorted to physical aggression. When she refused, he allegedly pushed her down on the couch and delivered a kick to her leg before snatching her keys and driving off, leaving her behind. But this was far from the end of their altercation that day. When Jo returned home, he still refused to hand over her car keys. We have an idea of what happened next from the handwritten statement Louisa provided to police. These are her words, but not her voice. We have also changed any references to Jo's birth name and a warning. There is strong language used.

[Voice Actor (Reading Louisa's Statements)]

At about 10.30pm, Jo returned with my car. I said, why'd you take my car? Can I have my keys? I want to go out. Joe said, you're not having your fucking keys. You're not fucking going anywhere. I then walked out to my car, sat in the driver's seat. Even though I didn't have the keys, Joe came out to the car, grabbed me on the shoulder by the hair and dragged me out of the car. Let fucking go of me, he said, Shut the fuck up and get inside, you fucking dog. Joe pulled me and we ended up just inside the front door. We began to wrestle to get him off me. Somehow, in the struggle, I managed to get the keys. I run out to the car, jump in the driver's seat and quickly lock the car door. I reversed out of the driveway quickly and went straight to my friend's house. Called the police. I've never given permission for Jo to hit me or abuse me or call me names. Jo is continuously taking my car without asking and without my permission. Police attended at my friend's house and I've made the statement of my own free will.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Even Caz remembers this day quite clearly.

[Neighbour Kaz]

And he didn't shy away from the violence towards her. He would drag her out of the unit, into the driveway, in the car. She'd be screaming and he'd just lock the door and we'd be banging. I'd be banging on the door, calling the police.

[Acast Announcer]

Horrible.

[Neighbour Kaz]

It was horrible.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

In addition to taking Louisa's statement, police now took action and charged Jo with assault. He was bailed and the court date was scheduled for two months later, in August 2011. Prior to this court date, police visited Louisa's residence on 6 July as part of an operation referred to as Operation Checkup 2011. While the specifics of this operation are not known, it was described as an initiative by the Family Violence Unit to visit individuals identified as being at risk, aiming to prevent further incidents from occurring. Let's just pause here for a moment. So, as of 6 July 2011, three months before she was found dead, Louisa had been identified as at risk, according to an operation run by the police Family Violence Unit. How widely accessible was her inclusion on this list? Was there a record of police attendance in relation to this operation? Would the officer we have referred to as TL in episode one been able to see this at the time TAS reported Louisa missing? Would detectives at the CIU have been able to see this when Louisa was finally identified? At the time of publishing this episode, answers to these questions still remain unclear. What we do know, however, is that when police showed up at Louisa's door as part of Operation Checkup 2011, there was no answer to repeated knocks either. Louisa wasn't home, chose not to answer, or was unable to. A month later, another visit was made by police and a support worker, but again, there was no response to their repeated knocks. It remains unclear whether she, or Jo for that matter, was at home during that visit. In the summary provided to the coroner, police documented Louise's lack of response to these attempts as, and I quote, refusing to engage, offered services. But what kind of refusal was it? How is it possible, possible from a lack of response to determine whether it was a deliberate refusal, a refusal from ignorance, or perhaps even a refusal by influence. Domestic violence expert Betty Taylor.

[Acast Announcer]

She didn't refuse support at all. They didn't engage with her. That's how that should have been written up. She didn't refuse support. Not answering the door isn't a refusal for service. We get told repeatedly that, you know, she didn't engage. Don't see that as she didn't engage, see it. She wasn't able to engage. She wasn't safe to engage, you know, or your service system wasn't flexible enough for her to engage. You know, there can be a whole lot of reasons that women don't, but we've gotta learn from that.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

On the day of Joe's assault hearing, he failed to appear and a warrant to arrest was issued and later executed. Jo was re bailed with an undertaking to appear. On 15 November 2011, this assault charge was still pending when Louisa was found dead in Darebin Creek. Due to her death, this matter did not proceed. And a reminder, Louisa was found to have died with no suspicious circumstances in a manner consistent with drowning. Despite facing assault charges at the time of her death, Joe would later claim to police that he never once hit Louisa.

[Acast Announcer]

My name is Kerry Carrington. I'm an adjunct professor in the School of Law and Society at the University of Sunshine Coast. I've had about three decades researching the policing and prevention of gendered violence. She was obviously enmeshed in a cycle of domestic coercive control, but I do think, though, that that was very much diminished in the coroner's report. I don't think a coroner could get away with diminishing it that lightly.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Today, examining the circumstances surrounding Louisa's tragic death, an overarching question stands out. Was it a terrible accident? Or did she choose to end her life in the nearby creek as a desperate act brought on by the fear and trauma of domestic violence? Or was it something else entirely? Despite asking for help from domestic violence services earlier in the year, Louisa, for whatever reason, did not follow up their offer of assistance. This leaves us grappling with the thought, was she seeking a different way out? As we continue to explore this case, we must consider all possibilities and questions, question the factors that led to such a devastating outcome. Still to come on Troubled Waters, I.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Said, look, you tell me when I'll pick you up, I'll take you to the airport, I will pay for your ticket to Greece. But all one way ticket lawyers are you go, you don't come back.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

That's what sometimes runs through my mind. If she was a young girl without any trouble, would things have been different?

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Casefile Presents Troubled Waters is written and produced by Julia Robson and Claire McGrath. Audio production by Mike Magus Audio editing by Anthony Telfer Voice actor is Taya Nicholas. Special thanks to Professor Kerry Carrington, Jolene Allitt and Betty Taylor. If you need any support regarding any of the topics raised in this podcast, please reach out to services such AS Lifeline on 1311, 1400 RESPECT, or the Men's Referral Service on 1300 766. 491. Listeners outside of Australia should refer to their local services.

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[Acast Announcer]

Acast.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Hello, this is Jessie and Lenny Ware.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

From Table Manners, a podcast direct from.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

Our dining table where we talk all things food, family, growing up, and everything in between.

[Neighbour Kaz]

And everything in between.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

This season we've had Reese Witherspoon reveal.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

The greatest cookie recipe.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

We had Gary Oldman, who's freshly knighted.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

Sir Gary Oldman.

[Neighbour Kaz]

Sir Gary Oldman.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

We did some singing with Gloria Estefan.

[Acast Announcer]

And Jeremy Allen White has shared some culinary stories with us.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

And it's not just this series. We've had plenty of other brilliant guests.

[Neighbour Kaz]

Where you can listen back to all the episodes.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

People like Cher, Dolly Parton, Kate Winslet?

[Acast Announcer]

S, Paul McCartney, John Legend, Benny Blanco and Selena Gomez.

[Narrator/Host (Julie Koehler / Jessie or Lenny Ware)]

We've had them all and we fed them very. Come and listen to Table Manners, the podcast with me, Jesse Ware and Lenny Ware.

[Podcast Promoter/Interviewer]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

[Louisa or Louisa's Brother (Tas)]

Acast.com.