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- [00:02]
Acast Announcer
ACAST powers the World's best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [00:10]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Look Love.
- [00:11]
Ryan Joe (Adweek Editor in Chief)
It or hate it, the advertising and marketing industry is the ultimate broker of power and influence in the world today. And now you can look behind the curtain. I'm Ryan Joe, editor in chief of Adweek and host of our new weekly podcast, adspeak. Adspeak brings stories from our top reporters to life and and delves into the people and companies that shape the products we buy, the entertainment we enjoy, and how we view the world. We're bringing the drama of the newsroom directly to you and revealing the untold stories behind the headlines. Adspeak by Adweek is your new essential weekly podcast. Subscribe and follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:56]
Acast Announcer
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
- [01:08]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
This podcast contains content that may be upsetting to some listeners. Before continuing, please prioritise your own wellbeing and mental health. Please check the show notes for more detailed descriptions of the episodes and a warning. Strong language is used in this episode. Sunday, 2nd October 2011 the Last Day Louisa was seen Alive what transpired on Louise's final day depends on which version of events and the source you choose to believe. Both the police and the coroner have relied in part on the account provided by her boyfriend, Jo. This is understandable, considering he lived with her and was the last person to see her alive. However, it also raises concerns that the person recounting Louise's final movements is the same individual who was facing charges for an alleged assault on her. In other words, as Professor Carrington explains.
- [02:06]
Professor Kerry Carrington
Because she's dead, her voice is silent and therefore any alternative perspective is not being considered. The only perspective that seems to be considered is the perspective of the partner.
- [02:20]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
And naturally, in cases of unexplained deaths, police often zero in on the person most closest, although some may wonder if Louisa's case was afforded that same level of scrutiny. Episode 6 the Day of Let's now consider the findings regarding her death. The autopsy concluded that her cause of death was consistent with drowning, and after a coronial investigation, the coroner was satisfied that there was no involvement of a third party. This includes Joe. So, to be clear, Joe is not considered a suspect in Louisa's death, nor, to the best of our knowledge, was he ever treated as one during the original police investigation in 2011. With this in mind, numerous questions still remain unanswered. It's unclear how Louisa ended up in the creek on that day, or how a competent swimmer like her could have met such a fate. So by revisiting her final day, our goal is to re examine these details and uncover potentially overlooked aspects to gain a much clearer picture of what may have occurred. So let's begin with Joe's account. His recollections begin on the morning of Sunday, October 2, and he portrays himself as a supportive boyfriend who tolerates Louise's alleged mood swings and declining mental health. According to Joe, by the late afternoon he makes the decision to end their relationship. We'll return to his statement, but again it's worth remembering that Joe tells police he broke up with Louisa late afternoon. For now, we're going to attempt to further reconstruct the events of Louisa's last day as best we can. Drawing from allegations that can be substantiated, verified or seem to be supported by additional evidence, it is important to note that these allegations have yet to be tested in a court of law, starting with Louise's neighbours, who gave a different version to Jo of the morning of Sunday 2nd October, around 7am Two different neighbours claim they were abruptly awakened by the intense sound of Jo and Louisa engaged in a heated argument. This argument continued for several hours, with both neighbours again claiming they could hear the situation escalating. One neighbour allegedly overheard Louisa pleading please don't take my car, to which Jo responded, fuck off, bitch. You whore. Shortly after, the neighbours claimed Jo left the house, got into Louise's car and drove away. A note here. This version of events is never mentioned by Jo. According to his version, he and Louisa were fine that morning and even went out together around lunchtime. But let's keep going with the neighbour's version of that morning. Remember, they're claiming to have witnessed arguing before Jo took off alone. Louisa was now standing outside her home visibly distressed while being comforted. It's claimed Louisa said she'd been assaulted by Jo and and dry blood was visible on her left ear. After observing her eyes rolling back in her head in her apparent state of shock, it was decided Louisa should be taken to receive medical attention. As the neighbour started driving Louisa to the doctor after only a short distance, it's claimed that Louisa started having what was best described as a panic attack and asked to get out of the car. After pulling over, Louisa got out and told the neighbour she'd find her own way home. The neighbour did as they were asked and drove on to the local shopping centre, leaving Louisa behind. In this version of events, what happens next isn't exactly clear, but it would appear Louisa walked home and tidied herself up. Let's press pause. So while the neighbours claimed an argument took place that morning between Louisa and Jo, according to Joe's statement, he remembered that morning differently. He claims he and Louisa were fine in the morning. At around midday, they went out together before he came back to the house and dropped her off alone. So back to the timeline. We're now roughly around 1pm and based on all available statements, it would appear Louisa was home alone and Jo had left in her car. This is where something sticks out about her movements on her final day. You see, around this time, Louisa did something quite unusual while at home alone. It appears she packed a small amount of clothing into a bag. Then somehow, and for whatever reason, she decided to go to the Melbourne International Airport. We don't know exactly what Louisa's plans were once she got to the airport, but. But it has been confirmed there were no pre planned travel arrangements for her. If we were to speculate, perhaps she impulsively decided to head there, believing she could then buy a ticket or seek assistance from a friend. After all, her friend Indigo had already offered to help her with a one way ticket to Greece. This plan, however, had a significant flaw. Luisa had neither money nor a phone. Possibly her priority was simply to leave and she hadn't fully considered what she would do once reaching the airport. She may even have believed she could figure that out once she got there. As according to Indigo, Louisa always had an inherent charm about her.
- [08:20]
Indigo Tass (Friend of Louisa)
We would go to Rockets and Pockets, which is kind of an overage pool parlour, but some kids would go there after school and play. We would go there on a Friday or Saturday night and she would just confidently walk up to a table where she'd see two grown ups playing and say, oh, we'll play you for a drink. And they would go, all right, no worries. And we would sit there playing all night and she would manage to get free drinks even if she lost. She was unreal, like just confident. Oozed it.
- [08:46]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Could this have been her line of thinking when she arrived at the airport? Maybe she believed she could persuade someone to give her money, buy her a ticket or let her use their phone to either call someone or contact them on social media. Reflecting back to her early days escaping from Libya, it's hard not to notice the stark contrast. Back then. Her escape required a significant amount of planning and execution, all of which was reinforced by the unwavering support and guidance of her mother. This time the circumstances were vastly different. While we may never know what happened at the airport? What we do know is that by 2:10pm she had gotten into a taxi outside the airport and asked the driver to take her back home. I've spoken with the taxi driver who didn't make an official statement to police, but did provide them with a summary to the effect of.
- [09:40]
Acast Announcer
I collected a female from the Melbourne airport. She was upset and crying. She told me she didn't have any money and used my phone to get someone to pay the fare. I took her to a service station where a male was waiting. He was angry at the female and told her he wasn't going to pay.
- [09:55]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Jo was waiting at the pickup point and eventually settled the fare. However, he did so with one condition that the driver reveal where Louisa had been picked up from. On learning she'd been picked up from the airport, Jo asked Louisa what she was doing and her response was brief, but to the point she was going overseas. Let's take a moment to reflect on the implications of this. Joe has just discovered that Louisa was trying to leave the country. Had he also just discovered that she was trying to break up with him for good? Professor Kerry Carrington.
- [10:36]
Professor Kerry Carrington
Most domestic violence, family violence, homicides occur at the point of separation. The closer to that point, the higher the risk. And that happens because the research shows that the perpetrator feels like at that moment they've lost control. And once they've lost control, they feel that their violence escalates. And that's why the prospect of it becoming violent is much more likely, because they may come to the realization that the only way they're going to stop her from leaving her is to kill her.
- [11:10]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
While this may be widely accepted knowledge now, it's important to consider whether the police in 2011 would have recognised Louisa's attempt to leave overseas as a potential risk to her safety. If they did perceive it as such, their later determination that no third party was involved in her death becomes significant. I'll remind you here that while we have Jo's statement to police, he declined to answer any further questions from us. If, and I have to stress if Jo was involved in Louisa's death, the timing of learning about Louisa's attempt to leave would make sense. As part of our follow up, we also put a series of questions to Victoria police. When we asked how they were able to discount Jo's involvement in Louisa's death, they said the following. As with all investigations, police keep an open mind. The available evidence is insufficient to determine suspicious circumstances in this case and fails to meet the legal standard for the arresting or laying of any charges for any person. But back to Louisa's last day, picking up from approximately 3:30pm Again, exactly where she goes and who she's with differs depending on who's providing their version of events. Over the next few hours, Jo's a little vague about what he and Louisa get up to, but what is clear in his statement to police is that he never mentions a friend being with him after he picks Louisa up. This is at odds to a statement made by one of his friends who claims he met up with Joe and Louisa around this time and together all three of them in Louise's car drove to George's house. In this woven web of relationships and events, one person stands out significantly. George. Known back in the day for supplying methamphetamine or ice as it's typically referred to, he plays an instrumental part in Louise's final day. So back to the statement of Jo's friend. As the trio arrived at George's house, the Louisa goes inside alone and leaves Jo and this friend waiting in the car. During the wait, Joe allegedly becomes emotional and confides in his friend that he suspects Louisa may be giving sexual favours to George in return for drugs. Louisa's visit with George is only brief and not long after she gets back in the car and they leave, it appears Jo is still incensed by the idea that Louisa may be providing sexual favours to George. Joe swings the car around and heads back to George's house where he finds his car parked out front. Fuelled by what we can only assume to be anger, Joe lashes out. He goes over to the car and smashes its side window. While the friend never mentions this window breaking event to police in his statement, it was witnessed by both George's then girlfriend and later confessed to by Jo to the police, albeit under different circumstances. In Jo's statement, remember he never mentions having a friend with him. His version of events is that after picking Louisa up from the failed airport trip, Louisa allegedly told Jo that George made her give him oral sex for drugs and she was scared of George. So Joe drove over to his house and broke his car window as a way of showing Louisa she didn't need to be afraid of him. Again, in Joe's statement he never mentions meeting up with a friend during this time, nor does he claim Louisa went into George's house. It's unclear why Jo's friend claims to have been there, but yet Jo doesn't make any mention of it. It's also unclear why George recalls Louisa coming inside to his house and buying drugs off him. Yet in Jo's statement, he claims Louisa never went inside and George wasn't home. None of these versions of events have been tested, so all must be given the same weight at this time. Later in the afternoon, Jo, Louisa and potentially the friend arrived back to Louisa's home at Seston Street. Jo's mate may have headed off straight away, we're not sure. But once returning home, Jo and Louisa were overheard by their neighbour Kaz, engaged in yet another argument.
- [15:43]
Neighbour (Kaz)
I was putting my washing on the line, so I was at the fence. I could hear Louisa, she was screaming and crying. Please, no, please don't. Jo, come on, just stop, stop, stop. And I've gone, oh. And I said, bridget, go inside. I don't want you hearing what's going on next door. So I finished hanging my clothes and she was maybe asking him to stop for about five minutes. I reckon sometimes it feels like an eternity when you're in that moment. But it was very short and I heard banging. I didn't hear him say anything. It was just her. Please, Jo, stop. Please don't.
- [16:20]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
No.
- [16:21]
Neighbour (Kaz)
That was pretty much all that was said. Then it went really quiet and I've come inside and I'm trying to listen. Went back out in the backyard, I couldn't hear anything and I went, mm. Oh, dear, something's not sitting right. Because that sounded really the way she was telling him to stop.
- [16:41]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
We will be back after a short break. It's around this point Joe alleges he breaks up with Louisa. This is an interesting statement as despite this claim to the police, no one we spoke to can recall him mentioning a breakup in the days following Louise's disappearance. The times and the different statements don't match, but our best estimate is that we're now roughly at 5pm Jo states he's broken up with Louisa and tells police she dropped him at his parents house before Louisa returns back home on her own. Fast forward to 8:44pm where Louisa is still at home on her own. She goes outside, knocks on her neighbour's door and asks if she could use their mobile phone. The neighbour doesn't remember what Louisa was wearing then. No mention of the pink dressing gown her body was later found in, although jeans do come to mind. However, what is clear in the neighbour's memory is blood noticeable in Louisa's hair near her right ear. Let's hit pause again. Recall the alleged assault earlier in the day. A different neighbour said they had noticed blood near Louise's left earth. Yet after her airport trip, neither the taxi driver nor George, the drug dealer, remarked on any blood in her hair, suggesting she may have tidied herself up. However, that evening, the blood seemed to have migrated to the other side of her head. Could it be possible that Louisa was assaulted twice in one day? So, after the neighbour lets Louisa inside, Louisa rings Joe. Phone records validate this and the neighbour also hears her asking, Jo, where are you? I'm waiting for you. Having made this call, Louisa returns back to her house. Did Louisa and Jo have plans that night? Is this why she was ringing him? We'll revisit the significance of this phone call, but for now it's important to remember that this happened at 8:44pm it's now around 9:00pm and Louise is at home. It's from this point forward we are relying solely on Jo's version of events as to what occurred. Remember, he's now saying he had broken up with her earlier that evening. Prior to 9:45pm, Joe claims he was dropped back to Louise's as he forgot his keys that he needed for work the next day. His statement suggests that when he got home, Louisa was upset and they had a minor disagreement. Louisa also allegedly made an unusual comment suggesting someone was coming for her, but she didn't say who. Joe claims he thought she may have meant George. Not long after his return home, Joe states he left Louisa alone so he could go outside to pat the dog. Coming back inside and seeing the door wide open, he surmises Louisa must have dashed outside. He follows after her, but it's only when he glances left down Tyler street that he spots Louisa at the far end of the street. She's running at a breakneck pace towards Darebin Creek, approximately 350 metres ahead of him. In the dim light, he manages to catch sight of Louisa thanks to her pink dressing gown, which illuminated under the glow of the streetlight as she ran towards the entrance of the creek. Seeing Louisa in the distance, Joe states he opted to return back to the house and wait for her there. That was the last time anyone claims to have seen Louisa alive. According to his account, Joe eventually falls asleep at the house and wakes up at some point the following morning. No time is offered when he went to sleep, or when he woke up, for that matter. If, as Joe suggests, Louisa had left around 9.45pm, then it's completely plausible to think he waited up some time for her to return before falling asleep. The specifics of time were never offered by Jo, or maybe they were never asked for by police. Instead of focusing on what Joe did say in his statement. Perhaps we should consider what wasn't mentioned. Something he failed to state to police, but was later revealed, was that at around 2am, Joe. Joe rang George, the man alleged to be Louisa's drug dealer, who they had visited earlier in the day. This is the same George who Joe allegedly believed Louisa was buying drugs from in exchange for sexual favours. And the same George whose car window he smashed less than 12 hours earlier. There was George's name again. What could Jo possibly have wanted to talk to George about at 2am the night Louisa went missing? As producer Claire and I dug deeper into the last moments of Louisa's life, it was evident that we needed to gain more insight from a key figure in her story, none other than George himself. The catch. A dozen years had passed since Louisa's tragic death. Would George even remember her? And if he did, would he be open to discussing these events of that fateful day with us? It was now time to find him. Tracking down George's phone number was surprisingly straightforward. He had listed it openly on Facebook Marketplace, while selling various items. Despite this, I found myself hesitant. And, truth be told, I held onto his number for quite a while. I had to seriously consider how George might react when asked about his memories of providing a young woman with drugs on the last day she was seen alive. My approach needed careful planning. Since I didn't have his address, a direct visit wasn't an option. Plus, there was the risk of being mistaken for police officers, which could immediately shut down the conversation. Preferring an indirect approach, I used social media to my advantage, knowing his Marketplace ad would tell me when he'd seen the message. I provided a brief introduction and closed with a sentence. Time changes everything and I'd love to chat with you. Please ring Julia. Then I waited. Hello, this is Julia.
- [23:12]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yes, Julia, how are you?
- [23:14]
George's Female Companion
I'm good.
- [23:15]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
How are you? Good, thank you. This is George. George, hi. Thank you so much for ringing me. I know I kind of ambushed your Facebook advertisement.
- [23:25]
Professor Kerry Carrington
That's all right, that's all right. I read your message.
- [23:28]
Neighbour (Kaz)
And?
- [23:28]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
What do you think?
- [23:30]
George (Drug Dealer)
Well, I was thinking, why hasn't this come any sooner?
- [23:35]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Thanks, George. I was hoping you'd say that. He wanted to speak to us. Claire and I jumped in the car and prepared ourselves.
- [23:44]
Claire McGrath (Producer)
So we're about five minutes away from getting to George's place. How are you feeling about the fact we're getting to meet him?
- [23:51]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
I think this has been a long time coming and I'm really surprised that he was so open about wanting to talk to us that Was something I was not expecting.
- [24:01]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah.
- [24:01]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
It kind of feels like we're about to sit an exam that we've studied really hard for, but we've missed a.
- [24:09]
Claire McGrath (Producer)
Chapter, a big chapter. I'm really keen to hear what he's got to say. I think he's going to give us a bit of a different insight as to. To what we've had so far. I'm hoping he's gonna be a lot more open with us than he had been with the police when he originally gave his statement. The fact that he's interested in talking to us is really good. The fact that he knows that by talking to us, it's going on a podcast makes me feel good as well. What did he kind of lead you to believe on the phone?
- [24:40]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
That he had additional things to add, but he didn't say anything more or anything less than that, so who knows what to take from that little snippet?
- [24:51]
Claire McGrath (Producer)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, he could be saying yes just to kind of see what you know.
- [24:56]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Absolutely. Yeah. It does make you think, if you've been holding onto something for that long.
- [25:00]
Professor Kerry Carrington
Right.
- [25:01]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
This is one shot, by the sounds of things.
- [25:06]
Neighbour (Kaz)
Yep.
- [25:07]
Claire McGrath (Producer)
And he didn't. He didn't hesitate when you asked him to if he wanted to be part of it.
- [25:14]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
I think it's just up there. I think. Yeah, pull over. I think it's that house there.
- [25:19]
Indigo Tass (Friend of Louisa)
Yep.
- [25:19]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Okay. On a grey Friday afternoon, Claire and I arrived with uncertainty. Outside of George's home, it was evident that George didn't typically entertain visitors, as his curtains were all drawn, the doorbell didn't work and his front security door was locked. He also wasn't responding to our repeated knocks. We began to wonder if George had cold feet and wouldn't speak to us after all. However, after making several attempts to call him, he finally picked up. Hi, George, it's Julia.
- [25:53]
George (Drug Dealer)
Hey, Julia. Sorry, I just seen the message now.
- [25:55]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
That's ok. Can we come in now?
- [25:58]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah, we're about. Are you around?
- [26:01]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Yeah, we're just outside.
- [26:03]
George (Drug Dealer)
Oh, okay.
- [26:05]
Indigo Tass (Friend of Louisa)
Okay.
- [26:05]
George's Female Companion
All right, Excellent.
- [26:07]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
We'll come see you.
- [26:08]
George's Female Companion
Thank you.
- [26:09]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Thanks.
- [26:09]
George's Female Companion
Bye.
- [26:11]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
As George welcomed us in, two curious kittens ran to the door and any initial awkwardness was lifted as we scrambled to prevent them from escaping outside. Can I still get him? Come on, kitty.
- [26:25]
George (Drug Dealer)
Thank you.
- [26:26]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
As we ventured further into the house, the closed blinds, dim lighting and a large TV displaying a 24 hour live feed from outside his front door emphasised George's preference for privacy. To our surprise, as we were directed to sit on the couch for our interview, we discovered a woman asleep under a blanket. As shocked as we were, she was equally as unhappy about being disturbed. Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry. But as George explained to her why we were there, her demeanour changed and she was suddenly awake and eager to share. Turns out she also knew Louisa and had some information of her own. Having seen George's photo on Facebook, I couldn't help but notice a stark contrast in the man sitting in front of me. He appeared older, significantly thinner, and occasionally distracted. However, there was a tenderness about him, particularly when he spoke about Louisa. As we chatted, any initial concerns I had about meeting George in person quickly faded. During our three hour discussion, George candidly shared his struggles with substance abuse and the underlying reasons behind it. You'll notice that although at times his speech may be a bit hard to understand, there are some key pieces of information that are important. To begin, George disagreed with the label of drug dealer that had been associated with him. He painted a different picture of his past actions, describing it more as communal drug use with those who, like him, were attempting to escape their personal problems.
- [28:08]
George (Drug Dealer)
Never once in my life have I ever rang anyone and offered them drugs. If people rang me, I know we've all got issues and we turn to drugs. Strange enough, the word gets out, you know, George's got the good stuff, you know, and it's like, it's like my medicine, doctor.
- [28:24]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Louisa had entered his life through these encounters. Periodically, she would seek him out to purchase methamphetamine, or ice, as it's more commonly known.
- [28:33]
George (Drug Dealer)
She used to come, maybe it could have been every two weeks. It wasn't that often, you know, but when I did see her, it was a good connection. Yeah, you know what I mean?
- [28:45]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Sounds like you got on well.
- [28:46]
George (Drug Dealer)
She was Greek too. It was strictly business, you know, if you want to call it business. She had, I got a habit, she's got a habit. It was, you know, we had a smoke together and that was it.
- [28:58]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Our discussion naturally turned to Louisa's last day, her way of purchasing drugs and whether any sexual exchanges were involved. A reminder here that while Jo claimed in his statement, Louisa never went inside George's house on her final day. George's statement said she did.
- [29:15]
George (Drug Dealer)
Jo, on that particular day, Jo didn't come in and thought something happened.
- [29:20]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
I don't know, you know, Louisa didn't have any money. I guess that's the problem, is that for her to purchase it without any cash, how's that happening?
- [29:31]
George (Drug Dealer)
I wouldn't say she never had any money. $50, $100, I can't see why she wouldn't have $50, $100. Why wouldn't she have $50 or $100? There's no reason why she shouldn't have $50 or $100.
- [29:46]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Did she set up a tab with you at all?
- [29:50]
George (Drug Dealer)
A tab? No. I don't think she ever owed me any money.
- [29:55]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
I still am worried in terms of how they're getting money.
- [29:59]
George (Drug Dealer)
I mean, $50 is not much to have.
- [30:02]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Is that how much it costs?
- [30:03]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah.
- [30:04]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
That's pretty cheap.
- [30:05]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah. Yeah, for a couple of points. That's all. Yeah, that's all it was. That's the most she's ever gave me.
- [30:13]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
And would she sit in your house and she smoked?
- [30:15]
George (Drug Dealer)
We would have a smoke together. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:18]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
So the last time you saw her, do you remember smoking with her?
- [30:21]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yes.
- [30:21]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Okay. It's a point.
- [30:23]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah, yeah. It wasn't. Oh, a couple of points you want to call it. It's not cause.
- [30:29]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
How long would that take? Sitting around doing that?
- [30:32]
George (Drug Dealer)
Five minutes.
- [30:35]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Throughout our conversation, George firmly maintained that there had never been any intimacy between him and Louisa. I will mention here that his female companion remained next to him throughout this conversation. So I'm not sure how much that influenced this. But despite this, George's fondness for Louisa was quite evident.
- [30:56]
George (Drug Dealer)
She was a glamour. Yeah. You see her and she'd take your heart. She was beautiful. That was the sad part about it because she was such a beautiful girl and the first time I ever met her, it was like an angel. She was beautiful. And that's it. That's the connection we had. I mean, not even did I even kiss her once, you know, there was nothing there as that. You know, it was just friends. That's all it was.
- [31:25]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
It's necessary to clarify whether Louisa had offered George sexual favours in return for drugs. This was because while Louisa was in George's house, according to a witness statement, Jo had been outside telling his friend about this very allegation. It was the same suspicion that may have led to Joe smashing George's car window. And of course, there was that mystery 2am phone call after Jo claims he saw Louisa run out of the house, headed towards the creek. Because Jo was obviously upset at the idea that she may have been giving you favours in order to get the drugs.
- [32:05]
George (Drug Dealer)
Probably. But it never happened. It wasn't like that. We were more friends, you know, don't forget I had a girlfriend too.
- [32:12]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
But she's not your girlfriend now. If there is anything.
- [32:15]
George (Drug Dealer)
No, we've. We're going back a few years but, you know, she's my girlfriend now. No, no.
- [32:23]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
So Back to this 2:00am phone call. This was the phone call Joe allegedly made after his claim Louisa had ran out of the house around four hours earlier and was the last time he had seen her alive.
- [32:35]
George (Drug Dealer)
Yeah, just. That's all it was, jealousy. I remember ringing me, telling me, you're fucking dead, cunt. And he was gonna cock for rock and all this sort of bullshit, you know. And I'm thinking, what the fuck are you on about, mate? You know? And that was the last time I'd seen her. That's. But it was like just swearing away and telling me I'm dead and this and that.
- [33:00]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
So at 2am, a few hours after Louisa was last seen alive, Joe allegedly called George in a furious state, accusing Louisa of providing sexual favours and warning George that he's dead. A significant. Significant as these allegations are, there are limitations in confirming these details. While George is adamant he received an abusive call of this nature from Jo, it still remains unclear whether this abusive call happened at that 2am timeframe. We haven't been given access to the phone records, so we can't tell you how long that 2am phone call went for or whether George even answered it. All we know is that in the police summary, they suggest a phone call of some sort was confirmed around that time and a reference to Jo's phone records were provided. It remains unclear why this particular phone call apparently wasn't treated as significant as it might suggest. Perhaps the police did discount it, but we lack clarity in this regard. Resuming our conversation with George, we try to explore further his recollection of his final interaction with Louisa. And a reminder, this conversation would have happened just after Louisa's unsuccessful trip to the airport.
- [34:20]
George (Drug Dealer)
She was upset. What was going on in her relationship. It was a good discussion we had. You know, it was like she was up to here with him. She just couldn't escape. Every time she came home from work, he was inside her house. Police couldn't help her, you know, she told the police about it. I don't know. I remember her saying she had finally found the courage to walk away. That's what I recall her saying. The last discussion we had, the day I spoke to her, she finally got to a point where she heard what I was saying to her. She felt like she had the courage, you know, after a discussion we had a week prior or about getting him out of her life.
- [35:09]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
If George's recollection is accurate, then it appears they had quite a meaningful discussion about her relationship. This brings us back to the timeline. Could Louisa have had time to talk with George about leaving her relationship, consume drugs and provide him with a sexual favour, all while Jo was outside? Another perplexing question emerges. If Louisa didn't have enough money to pay the taxi driver, how did she suddenly find the money to pay George? Joe ultimately paid the taxi fare. So did he or his friend provide her with the money to buy drugs? If they did, what led Joe to be so convinced that Louisa had provided sexual favours in exchange for the drugs? As our chat continued, it became clear that George recalled Louisa was telling him she wanted to get out of the relationship. But it was now becoming apparent Louisa wasn't just asking George for help, she was asking multiple people. Even George's female friend remembered offering to take Louisa to the airport. In the months leading up to her death, did Louisa ever say that she was depressed or given medication?
- [36:25]
George (Drug Dealer)
She was very upset, but I remember her being very emotional. I remember in the discussion that we had, she had really opened up. I mean, she was fearful, she was scared, she didn't know where to turn. I just opened up part of her.
- [36:42]
George's Female Companion
Where.
- [36:44]
George (Drug Dealer)
She had thought about the discussion we had. This was it. This was the move for her, you know, breaking away from her, not to go for me or go for anyone. It was just to get out of that. Get out of that prison she was in.
- [37:01]
George's Female Companion
She agreed with me to send her overseas.
- [37:03]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
She wanted to leave?
- [37:05]
George's Female Companion
Yeah. And I said, it's in your hands. Tell me. I'm willing to.
- [37:09]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
Where did she want to go?
- [37:10]
George's Female Companion
Anywhere. Anyway, she just wanted to get out of it.
- [37:12]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
And when was the last time you had that conversation with her in relation to her dying?
- [37:17]
George's Female Companion
That was about one month before. Actually, I heard about it one month. And I kept on saying to her, when you're ready, I'm ready. I had the money and everything. At one point, I offered. I don't know who was overseas with a mum. It was overseas. And I offered to pay for a ticket to send overseas.
- [37:38]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
You offered to pay for it. So did she ask for help to leave? What did she tell you about wanting to leave the relationship?
- [37:46]
George's Female Companion
She was fed up. She was fed up. But when I took her up at the police station, she had a mark on her face. And I said, you've got to do something about it. You can't keep just telling us you got to do something. We can't do something about it. You've got to do something about it.
- [38:01]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
This passing comment made by George's female friend continued to linger in my mind long after our visit. If Louisa had been telling George, his female friend Indigo Tass, and the neighbours that she wanted to leave the relationship, who else had she told? As it turns out, there were a lot of people. The more I dug, the more people from her past I spoke to, the more I realised in her final months she had reached out to a significant number of people and told them all she wanted to leave the relationship. She had even gone so far as contacting friends who hadn't seen her in years, all with the same purpose to ask for help. So after her failed attempt earlier that day to leave via the airport, why then would she choose to run towards Darebin Creek later that night still to come on Troubled Waters? And according to his words, I saw her all the way to the end.
- [39:07]
Indigo Tass (Friend of Louisa)
Of Tyler's and I said to him, what the f has happened? Where's Louisa? And he said, she was at the creek. She slipped, she hit a rock.
- [39:15]
Narrator / Host (Julia Robson)
There's actually another street you can turn off before you get down to the Parklands. Casefile Presents Troubled Waters is written and produced by Julia Robson and Claire McGrath. Audio production by Mike Megus Audio editing by Anthony Telfer Voice actor is Finn McGrath special thanks to Professor Kerry Carrington. If you need any support regarding any of the topics raised in this podcast, please reach out to services such AS Lifeline on 13 double 1141800 Respect or the Men's Referral Service on 1300766 491. Listeners outside of Australia should refer to their local services.
- [40:06]
Indigo Tass (Friend of Louisa)
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- [40:38]
Acast Announcer
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [40:46]
Leah Thomas (Intersectional Environmentalist)
For centuries, colonization has fractured our relationship with the land. We've come to position ourselves outside side of nature as observers and masters of it, as if it were ours to control and bend to our will. But the earth pushes back, reminding us otherwise. I'm Leah Thomas. I'm the founder of the nonprofit Intersectional Environmentalist and I'm excited to be returning as your host for season four of as she Rises. This season we're exploring rewilding. We'll hear how communities are letting the landlord lead and reimagining what it means to truly coexist with the natural world. Subscribe now and listen to this season of as she Rises. Wherever you get your podcast.
- [41:32]
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