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- [00:00]
A
Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids. We only met a month ago, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 451 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
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B
Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself?
- [01:22]
A
Doing very well. Been working on the studio. I'm just getting so excited, man. It is going a little slower than I had hoped, but I think by this time next week we'll be in the new one. So hopefully people are excited about that. More videos on YouTube, extra episodes on TCAD. There's a lot of new stuff for 2026.
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B
It's gonna be really cool.
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A
It is. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jabin Hussein.
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B
Hey, Hussein.
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A
Noah Nixon.
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B
What's going on? Nixon.
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A
Lori Smith.
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B
Well, thanks, Lori.
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A
Genevieve. Roland.
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B
Hey, Roland.
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A
Joe.
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B
What's up?
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A
And Joe, Debbie Klein.
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B
Hey, Debbie.
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A
And last but not least, Stacy Oishi jumped out her highest level.
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B
Oh, man. Stacy, thank you so much.
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A
Yeah. Appreciate the new support. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Gia Pico.
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B
Hey, Pico. Thank you.
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A
Yep. We appreciate the continued support as well. We have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time. We where we're talking about Louisa Dunn. In 1967, Louisa was 75 years old when she was murdered inside her home in England. It took 58 years to solve her murder and it became one of the oldest cold cases in modern UK history.
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B
But how cool was it that it was actually solved?
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A
It was. I mean, 58 years is a long time, so there's a lot of interesting aspects to the cage. Make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsolved?
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B
I am ready.
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A
We're talking about the disappearance of Angelica Maria Gandera. Angelica Maria Gandera went missing in July 1985 while making the short walk from her grandmother's house to her family home in Temple, Texas. Forty years later, authorities have identified two strong suspects, but no arrests have been made. So a little different, right? In a lot of unsolved cases, we don't really know much of anything. Police are not really closing in on somebody. This one sounds a little bit different. Angelica was born on February 5, 1974. She was only 11 years old when she went missing. She lived with her family on 6th street in Temple, Texas. She was the youngest daughter of Olivia and Umberto Gandera and was especially close with her parents. Olivia told KCEN TV she was very quiet. I don't know why, but she was a very timid, fearful girl. I remember one time when we went to Mexico, she was scared of the motorcycles that drove past us on the bus. I don't know why.
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B
You know, I remember.
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A
Do you? Because I don't think you do. I do.
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B
I remember a. A young kid that had that same type of issue.
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A
Scared, really easy, timid, fearful. Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, it's interesting, I guess, when you think about. Obviously people have different personalities. What they do when they're kids as well.
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B
Right.
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A
Some kids are fearless.
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B
That's true.
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A
Will jump off of a house onto a mattress, and they think they're Evil Knievel or whatever on their bikes. While others are scared of a lot of things.
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B
You were probably scared to go down to the basement.
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A
Well, we didn't have a basement, but I probably would have been scared. Actually, my mom did have a basement.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And it led to an underground railroad.
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B
Really?
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A
Like a real one. Wow. Now it was caved in. Yeah. But if it hadn't been, we could have walked across or underneath the street. The town I lived in was like a hub.
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B
Yeah.
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A
For the Underground Railroad.
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B
That's interesting.
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A
Yeah. It was an old house, and there was a tunnel that was part of the Underground Railroad.
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B
Some history right there.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. Angelica's older sister, Laura Mendoza, said she really wasn't into sports. She was a homebody. She loved to play. Go to my grandma's a lot. She was really special and kind, loving. Angelica went missing on July 14, 1985. That day, her family was going out to their farm in the country. Angelica didn't want to go. Instead, she decided to spend the afternoon with her grandmother, who lived just three blocks away. The walk normally took less than 10 minutes.
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B
I mean, 11 years old, to walk three blocks. Wouldn't give it a second thought, well.
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A
Probably a walk she had made many times, right to her grandma's house. I mean, you and I grew up in the 80s. I walked all over the town or rode my bike, you know, one or the other. I didn't think about it. Apparently my parents didn't think that much about it because they let me.
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B
They didn't worry about you, you know, they knew that you'd be home at some point.
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A
Well, usually for dinner. Yeah, because that was. I was always into dinner. On her way to her grandma's house, Angelica stopped by her friend's house to see if she wanted to go with her. Her friend said no. So Angelica proceeded alone. Around 5:30 to 6:00pm, Olivia Gandera called her mother to check on Angelica. She was told Angelica left the house at 5, meaning she definitely should have been home by that time. Angelica's parents thought, well, maybe she stopped at her friend's house, lost track of time. But a phone call revealed Angelica wasn't there. And I think, you know, you can put yourself in the position of the parents and we see it very often in unsolved episodes. There's an inkling on the part of family that, well, maybe something's not right, but we're not sounding all the alarm bells yet because it could be a bunch of different things. They immediately thought, well, she most likely stopped by her friend's house. But when you make the phone call and find out that she didn't, okay, then that level of worry goes up. Right? It's like the def con system. You get a piece of information, you go up a notch, you get another piece of information, that makes you even more worried, you go up another knot, it just keeps elevating until it's essentially full blown panic at some point because let's not forget, right, she was 11 years old. She also wasn't the type of kid to just wander off or stay out late. Her parents continued calling family members, but none of them had seen Angelica. The family also went to their local park, but she wasn't there.
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B
So full force panic at this point?
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A
I think so. I think you've exhausted a number of options and you're probably about as worried as you can be. So that's when they called the police to report Angelica missing. But they also continued their search. Laura Mendoza recalled the KCEN TV the first thing we did is started going up and down the streets, going into the park, going everywhere, looking, going in the alleys, calling out her name. We were just up and down everywhere, looking, knocking on doors. I Don't think there was a door here in the area that we didn't knock on.
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B
I think I would be the same way. I think you would be as well. Like you would just not leave any stone unturned.
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A
Yeah. And I think we're not alone. Right. You would lump almost every parent into that bucket where, you know, for most of us, there's really nothing we wouldn't do for our kids. As you said, there's definitely no stone that would be left unturned. Now, you can't say that about everybody. There are some bad parents out there who just don't care, But I think that is a very, very small percentage. Police conducted door to door searches in the neighborhood over the next several days, and they did hundreds of interviews. Police suspected foul play due to Angelica's young age. And investigators soon learned of two troubling incidents that could be connected to Angelica's disappearance. A neighbor reported that on July 13, they saw Angelica pushing her niece in a stroller up the street between her grandmother's house and her own home. Someone driving a blue car pulled up alongside Angelica, and the driver attempted to get her to accept a ride. Angelica kept walking the car, circled the block, slowed down alongside her again, and then drove away. Angelica never said anything about this incident to her family.
- [10:52]
B
Maybe she just thought it wasn't that big of a deal.
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A
That's possible. The other thought that kind of hit me was maybe she didn't want to say anything to her parents because she thought they might get scared and they might not let her have the same freedom. Right. Of walking to her grandmother's house or other places.
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B
And that is a pretty good reality. As kids, we kind of hold back sometimes on things that maybe we should tell our parents. But we are worried, like you just said, if we tell them that maybe they're gonna keep a little tighter rein on us.
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A
Yeah. And kids don't want that. Right. That's one thing we know for sure. But I want to dive into the parents right when you find this out, because they didn't know about this until it was reported by a neighbor. But when you find this out, what are you thinking? She's already missing. And this, to me, seems like a potentially ominous sign. Olivia told the Temple daily Telegraph that Angelica was timid and that she wouldn't have gotten into a car with a stranger. She was a homebody, and there was no way she would have run away. And she knew better than to get into a stranger's vehicle. She had to have been abducted. And, you know, was 1985. I think there was a lot of stranger danger talk around that time, as I remember it.
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B
Oh, it was everywhere. It really was. I mean, I mean, I was probably at this time, I would have just turned 18 years old. And I remember that stuff was just. It was very well known.
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A
Yeah, I mean, you were the focus of the stranger danger part of it. I was only 12, so I was getting the message of stay away from strangers. Like this guy. I remember they had your picture up on some of the posters. I don't know why.
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B
To this day still is my early modeling years. Hey, you want to do this poster for us? Sure.
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A
Oh, that'd be a. That'd be a bad gig. And then it turns out to be that you're the. You're now the. The poster guy for some anti kidnapping campaign or something like that. Around 5 to 5:30pm on July 14, two children in the neighborhood saw Angelica in Jackson park, which was about a block from her house, next to a 1977 Chevy truck with an unidentified white male and female. The hood, front fender and bed of the truck were painted red and white. The doors were blue and white, and the top of the truck was white. The vehicle was dirty, dented, and in general disrepair. It's also kind of a heck of a description of a truck. I mean, that's not something that you're going to see every day.
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B
Yeah.
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A
A truck with that many different colors, let alone the aspect of it being dirty, dented and just kind of in.
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B
Bad shape, I just feel like it would be something you could identify.
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A
Yeah, it's going to stand out. Right. The children claim that the following day they saw Angelica with the same couple in the same park. But detectives were never able to find the vehicle or identify the man and woman. Police located the owner of the blue vehicle through two days after Angelica disappeared. They did extensive interviews and administered a polygraph which the owner passed. Police also searched the vehicle but didn't find any evidence linking it to Angelica.
- [14:45]
B
So they got to cross that guy off the list.
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A
Well, it sounds like they did cross him off the list, but why was it solely based off of a polygraph? If so, then I think today we would say not crazy about that. In 1985, they did place a lot of weight on polygraphs. Much more so, I think than they do today. On August 1, 1985, it was reported that a clerk at a Shamrock convenience store in San Antonio had reportedly seen Angelica with on several occasions in late July. But it's important to know, Gibbs. San Antonio is about 150 miles south of Temple.
- [15:32]
B
So a good hike?
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A
Yeah, I wouldn't be hiking it, but I know what you mean by hike.
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B
And this is, you know, they're saying late July. So they're saying after she was reported missing.
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A
Yes, you know, a couple of weeks at least. The girl who resembled Angelica was always dropped off by a man in a car. She went inside the store alone while the driver waited across the street. She was always quiet and seemed to be tense and in a hurry. After learning about Angelica's disappearance, the clerk tried to delay the girl the next time she came in by offering her a drink, then going to the phone to call the police. At that point, the driver got out of the car, went inside, grabbed the girl and told the clerk not to say anything.
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B
That's super suspicious.
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A
Yeah, very. I mean, obviously this clerk already had some kind of sense, right, that something wasn't right here. When it came to this girl. The clerk didn't think she was, you know, acting right, Thought she was nervous, in a hurry. Well, that's one thing. But then when this guy comes in, grabs her, takes her out quickly, but says to the clerk, hey, don't say anything. All right? Alarm bells for sure, big time. The clerk wasn't able to describe the man and the account has not been confirmed. And, you know, let's face it, it's one of the problems in these types of cases. There's always going to be a lot of reported sightings when someone goes missing, but when you're not able to confirm them, I think it makes it tough.
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B
Yeah, maybe if it happened today, there'd be more video or digital evidence.
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A
Yes, no doubt about it.
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B
But in 85, we didn't have any.
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A
Yeah, we don't know what there was. But I think it's also likely that, you know, you could see somebody's picture on the television or see it in the newspaper and then mistake somebody that you see later for that person when it's really not. 69 year old Ramira Ibarra was the first person of interest in Angelica's disappearance. Ibarra was in a relationship with Angelica's aunt, who lived next door and eventually married her. Per the Temple Daily Telegram, Angelica's sister, Laura Mendoza recalled that Ibarra wasn't friendly and they had very little contact with him. In 1997, Ibarra was found guilty of murdering 16 year old Maria Zuniga in Waco, Texas. Okay, you can see why this person, at the very least, would become a person of interest.
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B
Seems like he has A penchant for young girls.
- [18:30]
A
Well, he's also capable of murder, and he has a connection to the family. Meaning he has a connection to Angelica.
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B
And maybe she felt comfortable enough with him to get in his car.
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A
Yeah. Remember, her mom said, you know, she knew about stranger danger. No way would she get into a stranger's car. But would she get into her aunt's boyfriend's car and. Yeah, probably. Maria came to Waco from Mexico in 1985 and intended to enroll in school. She was taking English classes at McLennan Community College. Maria was babysitting her nephews on the morning of March 6, 1987. Later that day, her brother found her body in a back bedroom of her home, which was locked. Maria had been dead for a few hours. She was sexually assaulted and strangled to death. And it was just six hours later that police arrested Ramiro Ibarra, an acquaintance of the family. One witness told police he saw a maroon Pontiac Grand Prix leave Maria's home at 10:30am with two men inside. A family member gave police a description of an acquaintance and. And a description of his vehicle. The description of the man and car matched witness descriptions of the man seen near the house. Police went to Bara's home, and they saw a car that matched the description given by the family member and witnesses. He was arrested minutes later with what were said to have been fresh scratches on his face. And there was evidence on Maria's body showing she fought back against her attacker. And it's never good, Gibbs, when police haul you in to talk to you, you know, a lot of times they do look at your body. They ask you to take off your shirt or whatever, and you got a bunch of scratches on you. This one's pretty obvious because he had them on his face. You know, many people, when they're being assaulted, they fight back, which is great, right? It's. It's human instinct, that kind of fight to survive instinct.
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B
I mean, you're. You're doing that because you want to get away. You want to survive. But by default, if you don't get away, at least you're marking your predator.
- [20:56]
A
Yeah. And the other thing you're doing nowadays is you could potentially be grabbing DNA and holding it underneath your fingernails. That's why they do fingernail scrapings and all of that. Quince is all about elevated essentials that feel effortless. Designed for layering and mixing, each piece helps build a timeless wardrobe made to last with versatile silhouettes and thoughtful details. They're the kind of styles you wear again and again. And they've got all the wardrobe staples with quality that's made to last 100%. Organic cotton sweaters, premium denim made with stretch for all day comfort luxe cotton cashmere blends perfect for the changing seasons. Basically everything you need for a wardrobe that actually lasts. Quince works directly with only safe ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, just high quality clothing. My wife and I have been buying a lot of stuff from Quinn's. What I wear most often from their lineup is their flow. Knit performance pieces, pants, shorts. I mean it's just all so comfortable. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Go to quints.com truecrime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Trucrime to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com truecrime you know, when Gibby and I started this podcast 10 years ago. Yes. And it's almost been 10 years now. There was a lot that we had to figure out, how to research, how to actually put out a podcast. But there was also doubt. What if no one listens? What if we fail? But one thing that made merchandise very easy was Shopify. Their expertise, helpful tools and easy to use platform made selling our podcast merch simple. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from big household names to true crime all the time. You can get started with your own design studio. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. And Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com unsolved. Go to shopify.com unsolved that's shopify.com unsolved. The murder charge against Debara was dismissed in 1988 when a district judge ruled that the county judge had no authority to issue a warrant for Ibarra's hair and blood samples.
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B
Well, it's got to be a tough blow to the prosecution. Have your case thrown out.
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A
Yeah, for that reason. And it seems so strange to me. Okay, there's so this judge is saying that the other judge had no authority to issue a warrant for this guy's hair and blood. Can we not just get a new order from this judge to get it. And why is the case being thrown out? This is murder. After the law changed in 1995, investigators had another chance to get a warrant for evidence. And then they rearrested Ibarra. He went to trial in September 1997. The court heard that there was a 1 in 166,666,000 chance that someone other than Ibarra sexually assaulted and strangled Maria. Blood and tissue under Maria's fingernails showed that she did fight back against her attacker. The DNA found on her body matched Ibarra's blood and hair samples.
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B
I mean, there's a pretty good odds to convict somebody.
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A
Yeah, I think they are. I'm still a little upset that it was almost a decade later that this guy went to trial after his original murder charge was dropped.
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B
Yeah.
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A
The jury heard that Ibarra was a former neighbor, an acquaintance of the Zuniga family. But Maria was afraid of him because of the way he looked at her. Minutes after a jury found him guilty, on September 17, 1997, Ibarra slashed his throat and was taken to the hospital. Officials treated it as an escape attempt rather than a suicide attempt because he suffered minor blood loss and had never previously said anything about ending his life. They believe he just wanted to get out of the courthouse.
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B
So just did a superficial wound, like just to get the attention to get out of there.
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A
And maybe he thought that would give him an opportunity to escape or something like that. When the punishment phase opened, the court heard from a boy who testified that Ibarra sexually assaulted him three times several years earlier when he was only eight years old, and threatened to kill him if he told anyone. Ibarra also abused the young daughter of a woman he was having an affair with. Okay, this guy is a monster, plain and simple.
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B
Yeah, he was doing inappropriate things with boys, girls, didn't matter.
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A
And he was already found guilty of murder. On September 22, 1997, the jury sentenced Debara to death. After the sentencing, the Temple police expressed their hope that someone would come forward with new information to help them solve the disappearance of Angelica Gandera. And we mentioned it, right? Ibarra was Angelica's uncle by marriage. The Waco Tribune Herald reported that Ibarra was at her grandparents home before her disappearance and was one of the last people who saw her there. Temple Detective Lila Price called Ibarra a prominent suspect.
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B
You have to, right?
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A
I mean, I don't know how you can't be a prominent suspect even. Let's take all the other stuff out of it, you're a family member. You're one of the last people thought to have seen Angelica. Now add in all of the other stuff. We know him later being convicted of murder, being accused of sexually assaulting young boys and girls. You know, if I'm a member of law enforcement, you're. You're at the top of my list.
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B
Absolutely. I mean, you are zeroing in on this guy.
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A
KCEN TV reported that during the trial, Ibarra's former girlfriend told police that he confessed to doing something very bad in 1985, but he never elaborated on what he did. She also said that he once brought her to Cameron park in Waco and the area had a bad smell. Ibarra told her he killed the dog. However, she thought this was strange because he was extremely remorseful. Police searched Cameron park with cadaver dogs, but they didn't find anything. So angelica disappears in 1985. He allegedly told his former girlfriend he did something very bad in 1985. I mean, nothing is removing this guy from the radar. If anything, he just is looking better and better as a suspect.
- [28:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, you're just putting a bigger spotlight on yourself.
- [28:54]
A
But so far, authorities have been unable to officially link Ibarra to angelica's death. In 2005, the Temple Police received their biggest. And lastly, on Angelica's disappearance, detectives from the Garland Police Department contacted the Temple police about three Dallas area cases they were working on and how their suspect could be involved in Angelica's disappearance. The man convicted of the Dallas murders was David Penton, who was incarcerated in Ohio. Penton was previously in the Army. On November 23, 1984, while stationed at Fort Hood, Penton was charged with the death of his two month old son. A medical examiner concluded that he violently shook his son to death in a fit of rage because the baby wouldn't stop crying. Penton pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and received a five year sentence. He fled while on bond pending his appeal. The Dallas area murders were committed during his time on the run. But Penton was also linked to a murder in Ohio. Nine year old Nedra Ross went missing on March 31, 1988 while playing outside her aunt and uncle's home in Columbus. She was brought to Columbus by her mom and grandmother to spend spring break with her aunt and uncle. She would then be brought back to Dayton where she lived. So a little close to home. Sure it is, because as we've said many times, you and I live in Daytona. Daniel Pinton was a co worker of Nedra's uncle, Michael Baccus, and frequently visited the home. Police said Pinton took Nedra and two cousins to McDonald's for breakfast. On the morning of March 31, he returned the kids to the house and left for his own home around 1pm While Nedra was playing in the yard. Nedra's uncle called her for lunch at 1:30, but she wasn't there. Penton helped the family search the neighborhood that evening. And then he was arrested on April 13 on a fugitive warrant from Texas. He was questioned about Nedra's disappearance. The Columbus police said Penton could not account for his time between 1 and 3pm on March 31 and his alibis didn't check out. However, he was not officially charged because of a lack of evidence. So, you know, let's look at these two guys, right? Ibarra Penton. They have some things in each of these cases that are really going against them, Gibbs. You'd have to say that, absolutely. They don't look good for a variety of reasons. You know, when you can't count for your time or you give alibis and they turn out to be false. Okay, you don't look great. But there is a huge chasm, and I know I've said this before, between looking guilty and the authorities being able to put enough evidence together to prove guilt and to even take you to trial.
- [32:16]
B
And that's the tough part.
- [32:17]
A
It really is. Penton was extradited to Texas that summer. On September 24, 1988, Nedra's remains were found in a creek bed in Marion county about 30 minutes from where she went missing. The coroner couldn't find any evidence she was stabbed or shot and concluded she was most likely strangled to death. On May 9, 1990, David Penton was indicted for murder by a Marion county grand jury. Back in October 1988, authorities seized Penton's van and found traces of Nidra's blood on the carpet. So we just got done talking about how you gotta have the evidence, Right. To charge someone to take them to trial. Well, we're getting closer because that's some pretty good evidence.
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B
Yeah.
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A
On April 19, 1991, David Penton was found guilty of kidnapping and. And murdering Nedra Ross. He was sentenced to life in prison in May, plus 10 to 25 years for kidnapping.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah, I'm just thinking, you know, when we do these cases unsolved and we research and dig into them, here's one. That something tragic happened. But as you research and do some tie ins, you find these other tragic things that occurred, maybe related, maybe unrelated.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah. But the fact of the matter is there are, you know, abductions, murders happening I don't know how many times an hour all over the country. All over the world.
- [33:57]
B
Yeah, just, I mean, it just really drives it home that it's bad out there.
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A
It's scary. There's no doubt about it. At the time, the Columbus police noted that Penton was being investigated in Texas in connection with the murders of three young girls. Police linked him to the murders of five year old Christy Lynn Meeks, nine year old Christy Diane Proctor and three year old Roxanne Hope Reyes. Christie Meeks was abducted outside her mother's apartment in mesquite, Texas on January 19, 1985. Christie was playing with an 8 year old girl who lived at the complex while her brother and stepbrother were playing with two other boys nearby. Christy's friend recalled that a young man appeared and started talking to them. Her friend felt uneasy and told Christy they should go play with the boys. A little while later, she decided to go inside to take off her skates. When she returned, she saw Christy walking off with the man around the north end of the building. On April 3, Kristi's body was found floating in Deerhaven Cove in Lake Texoma. She was identified two weeks later. Wow, Gibbs, this is a five year old.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah, it's rough.
- [35:18]
A
On February 15th, 1986, nine year old Christy Diane Proctor was reported missing by her family. She was walking from her apartment to a friend's house and was abducted while walking. Christie's skeletal remains were found under a mattress in a field in Plano on April 9, 1988. On November 3, 1987, three year old Roxanne Hope Reyes was abducted behind her mother's home at the Meadow Terrace Apartments in Garland. While she was outside picking flowers, a playmate saw Roxanne get into a gray four door sedan with a man after he promised her ice cream and candy. It's believed Reyes thought Penton was her father's friend because he had been seen around their apartment complex. And you know, that's. We're talking about three young girls, two of them extremely young. But this idea that a very young child could be lured into a car with sweets, ice cream, candy, you know, that's not a new notion. No, that is a big part of, you know, the stranger danger stuff that you and I were hearing in the 1980s. And it continued on, you know, people talk about it to this day.
- [36:43]
B
They do. It's. It's a. Can you say it's like a old cliche?
- [36:47]
A
Well, yeah, but it's true.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah. Something we heard all the time. You know, someone offer you candy? You know, it's like the white windowless van that people would say stay away from.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah. Unfortunately a lot of that stuff, most of that stuff was rooted in some kind of real life thing. Right. So, yeah. Not every white windowless van has a predator inside. But some of them do. My kids to this very day are scared of white windowless vans. Yeah, I'm okay with that. You don't need to be around them. Stay away from them. Now, is there any reason why, let's say a grown man should be offering ice cream and or candy to a very young child from his car? I cannot think of a good reason, no.
- [37:43]
B
Well, you know who can't think of a good reason? A young child that doesn't know any better.
- [37:48]
A
Yeah, they don't. And in this case, it's thought that, you know, she might have even had the notion that this was one of her dad's friends. That's just going to make it even easier.
- [38:00]
B
Yeah.
- [38:01]
A
For lack of a better word. Right. For a predator to get her inside his car. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's location and the neighborhood. If you have kids. It's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. This dog salon Operational excellence thanks to genius from Global Payments, Scheduling, personalized checkouts, Instant absolutely genius. Big league reliability for any business. That's genius. Roxanne's body was found on May 19, 1988 in a vacant lot in Murphy, Texas. On May 21, 2003, David Penton was charged with strangling all three girls to death. On January 6, 2005, he pleaded guilty to the murders and received three consecutive life sentences.
- [39:37]
B
Kind of feel like there's a special place in hell for somebody like that.
- [39:39]
A
Yeah, I mean, it's Texas. I'M actually shocked he didn't get the death penalty. But I'm sure that was probably part of the plea deal, Right? We won't take any chances. You plead guilty and we'll take the death penalty off the table. Now, I didn't see that in the research. That's just a hunch, but that's more likely than not what happened. But you'd have to say, Gibbs, that this David Penton guy, he was kind of the epitome of evil.
- [40:12]
B
He definitely was. I mean, we have two potential suspects. One that was closer to Angelica. And then you have this guy that just was pure evil. Not as close to Angelica's family, but still operating in and out of the.
- [40:34]
A
Area and had no qualms of killing young girls. In March 2007, authorities announced that they considered David Penton a person of interest in the disappearances of Angelica Gandera, Amber Crumb, Era Johnson and Shannon Cheryl. Two year old Amber Nicole Crumb was last seen inside a truck in Dallas at 9:45am on December 26, 1983. The truck belonged to her mother's boyfriend who parked outside a McDonald's grocery on Murdoch Road two blocks from their home. Her mother's boyfriend went inside the store for a few moments and when he returned, Amber was gone.
- [41:18]
B
Man, what a nightmare.
- [41:19]
A
Yeah, that would be a nightmare situation. I hate to, you know, cast aspersions on this guy, but I can only speak for myself. I would never leave a two year old unattended in a car. Even if I was just running in somewhere for a minute. I just wouldn't do it.
- [41:40]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't either. Too much risk.
- [41:43]
A
Five year old Era Denise Johnson was last seen in her bedroom in her family home in Big Sandy, Texas on April 2, 1986. Between 1 and 2:30am the back door to the home was left open and Era's dark orange bedspread was also missing. David Penton was known to be in the area and allegedly mentioned Era's case to a cellmate. And we just got done talking about, you know, the, the three murders for which he was convicted. Not hard to believe that this guy could have been involved in, in some of these disappearances and murders as well.
- [42:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, he was really a sick guy.
- [42:26]
A
He was. Six year old. Shannon Marie Sherrill went missing behind her family's home in Thornton, Indiana on October 5, 1986. She was playing hide and seek with about 10 other children around 1:30pm Bloodhounds trace Shannon sent to a nearby cornfield and cemetery, but lost the Trail. Penton also told cellmates he abducted and.
- [42:51]
B
Murdered Shannon further away than his normal geographical area. But, I mean, if he's bringing up her name, he's saying that he did this, and maybe he probably did.
- [43:01]
A
You got to look at it now. I mean, Indiana is quite a ways from Texas, but it's possible he could have been in Indiana at some point. Penton was a strong person of interest in Angelica's disappearance because he was living in Bell county at that time. Like the other cases, he also told his cellmates he was involved. So this guy liked to talk, and he liked to tell his cellmates that he was involved in a bunch of different disappearances and murders. Like you just said, we know he's a bad guy. Does it absolutely mean he did these? No, doesn't mean that. But he's a guy you have to take seriously when he's confessing to committing crimes against children, because he already had a history of it.
- [43:52]
B
I just feel like, why would he want to tell cellmates that he murdered kids? I mean, aren't you setting yourself up to be a target?
- [44:00]
A
Yeah. I mean, it is weird, right? Because on the one hand, criminals brag about their crimes all the time. What they don't normally brag about is crimes against children, because that is viewed as kind of the lowest of the low by other criminals. You can murder people all day, but when you're a child rapist, when you murder children, those are the guys who often get the, you know. What kicked out of them.
- [44:34]
B
Yeah.
- [44:35]
A
In prison. Because other prisoners don't like it. Even though they might have killed a hundred people. It doesn't matter to them.
- [44:43]
B
Right. They didn't kill any kids.
- [44:45]
A
Yeah. And they look down upon you. So it is weird to your point that he's kind of bragging about this to other prisoners. Penton's cellmate said he claimed to have abducted and killed over 50 children. However, he's not been charged in connection with any of these disappearances. The Temple Police Department interviewed Penton in 2005 and 2006, but he was adamant he had nothing to do with Angelica's disappearance. Penton told the Tyler Morning Telegraph, I'm not a monster, though I have been called a monster, but I didn't go around the country killing little kids.
- [45:26]
B
But you're still a monster because you killed at least three.
- [45:30]
A
At least three. And I would argue most likely more so to say I'm not a monster. I call BS on that. But here's the one thing I kind of went through my mind. We Mentioned his plea deal. Right. It sounds like they took the death penalty off the table, but if he were to admit to another murder or other murders, it's possible that he could get the death penalty.
- [45:59]
B
Absolutely.
- [46:00]
A
So I think he probably has a vested interest in not admitting to any of these murders. Now, he might tell his cellmates, but he's not going to tell the police, even if he did it. He claimed his fellow inmates pinned the crimes on him to get reduced sentences, saying, people are going to believe what they want to believe about me, and there's nothing I can do. I mean, like I said, I'm sitting in prison and I can't clear my name. Well, a lot of people are going to believe it because you killed three young children.
- [46:31]
B
Yeah, let's not forget that, buddy.
- [46:33]
A
It's not a far leap to think you could have done this. Angelica's sister, Laura Mendoza, told the Temple Daily Telegram in 2023. I was told Penton had trophies he had collected from victims, such as locks of hairs and panties. A few years ago, police collected Angelica's DNA to see if it matched DNA collected at his home. A detective told us Penton mentioned Angelica's name at one time, but he was never charged in her disappearance. Deputy Chief Jeff Clark of the Temple police said, so after those multiple interviews, it just kind of led, I guess you could say, to a dead end, because there was nothing there, really. It didn't generate anything that detectives could follow back up on to actually connect him with her disappearance. And amazingly, Gibbs, this guy is eligible for parole in our home state of Ohio in 2027.
- [47:34]
B
This is next year.
- [47:35]
A
Yes, that is scary. But the. The good news is, if he is released, he'll be transferred to Texas to serve his three life sentences.
- [47:46]
B
So, okay, so he's doing the term in Ohio for the shaken baby, and then he'll go to Texas to serve for the three murders.
- [47:56]
A
Yeah, the murder of the three young children in 2023. Deputy Chief Clark told KCN TV there was no physical evidence in Angelica's case, saying, and that's the difficult part of this case, at least to our knowledge. There's no one that witnessed her actual disappearance. And so there was never any sort of a crime scene located. The only thing investigators had to go on was just the description of clothing that her family had given them. However, police do have Angelica's DNA in a database for comparison, if necessary. Laura Mendoza told KCENTV that she doesn't expect Angelica to be alive, but her faith gives her peace. The family hopes someone knows something and will bring them closure one day. Angelica Gandera was last seen wearing black shorts, white socks and sneakers and a black and white shirt with the word Sassoon on the front. You can view an age progressed photo of Angelica on the national center for Missing and Exploited Children's website. Anyone with information about the case or Angelica's possible whereabouts is urged to contact the Temple Police Department at 254-298-5500. So as we wrap this episode up. Gibbs, man, we talked about two individuals that I think police still have on their radar.
- [49:27]
B
Yeah.
- [49:28]
A
As possible suspects in Angelica's disappearance. You know, her family said they don't expect her to be alive. I don't either. This, it's been what, 40 plus years, right? Over 45 years now, I think. But you know, these two guys in their own ways are very interesting suspects. You know, Ibarra was dating her aunt at the time, later married her aunt. So, you know, he's a part of the family, probably even before they got married.
- [50:06]
B
He seems like a very strong person of interest to me.
- [50:09]
A
Well, he did to me. Even before it was found out that he murdered a 16 year old girl.
- [50:17]
B
Yeah.
- [50:18]
A
He's dating her aunt. He's one of, if not the last person known to have seen her. Right. Angelica. And then it turns out he's a murderer. So, you know, he's pretty strong. And then I don't even know what to think of this David Penton guy. He is just an absolute monster. This guy picked victims that were, you know, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old. Just the most vulnerable population you can think of.
- [50:55]
B
I'll be surprised if he makes it through prison in Texas.
- [51:00]
A
Alive.
- [51:00]
B
Alive.
- [51:01]
A
Yeah. I'm surprised somebody hasn't already shanked him.
- [51:03]
B
Yeah. But I think when he goes there for those three murders, they're going to find out and I would be surprised if he, if he makes it.
- [51:13]
A
Yeah, I'm. I wouldn't doubt it. I do think he's never leaving prison.
- [51:19]
B
No.
- [51:19]
A
You know, three consecutive life terms. No. He's going to die in prison and I'm okay with that because he deserves to.
- [51:28]
B
Yeah.
- [51:29]
A
For, for what he did. Now, whether or not he had something to do with Angelica's disappearance that I don't know. What I will say is it wouldn't surprise me at all if he has many more victims than what is known about currently.
- [51:45]
B
I agree with you. I think he, there is more victims. Eileen, on Angelica's aunt, boyfriend, or you know, pseudo uncle, whatever you want to.
- [51:56]
A
Call him later became Uncle Yeah, I.
- [51:59]
B
Lean more on that. I think there's something there.
- [52:02]
A
Well, there's. There's more of a connection.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah.
- [52:05]
A
Like we talked about. Right. He's around, has access. Thought to have been one of the. The last people to have seen her. So. Yeah, I don't know. This is one that I'd really like to see solved. Because there's at least two people who could possibly be involved. Doesn't mean they are. Could be a completely different person.
- [52:30]
B
Well, wouldn't surprise me there either. But I hate when we do these ones and you find these other terrible people that are tied in at some point. It just. I don't know. I say it all the time. It just blows me away.
- [52:45]
A
It does. And we've been doing this for 10 years, and it still blows us away. Yeah, that's. That's how shocking it is. But that's it for our episode on Angelica Maria Gandera. We got a voicemail. Gibbs, you want to check that out?
- [53:00]
B
Let's hear it.
- [53:01]
C
Hey, guys, it's Mandy again. I told about the Erica Frazier case, and when I heard the voicemail, I realized didn't say anything about where it's at. It is a town called Brooksville, Kentucky. It is Bracken County. And in reference to the case as well, I actually live, like, the road over from where they found her car. And later on, after they found the car and all this stuff was going on, there's actually someone who had admitted to being there when she disappeared and being one of the people that were involved in her disappearance, that, as far as I know, nothing ever came of it. But the high school was being built around that time, and there's obviously some conspiracy theories about her possibly being buried there or what have you. There had been psychics and other things, other people involved in looking for her, but, yeah, I just want to let you know, you know, I stopped at the first one, and I just remember that I should tell you where it's at. So. Yeah, again, keep your own time checking. Love you guys. Can't wait to hear the next episode.
- [54:17]
A
All right, thank you so much for calling back in with more information. It's definitely a case we'll look at for sure. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gaby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sam.