Cecilia Divine

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime All The Time Unsolved – "Cecilia Devine"

Episode: Cecilia Divine
Date: May 4, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Topic: The mysterious disappearance and unsolved death of Cecilia Devine in New South Wales, Australia

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Overview of the Episode

This episode delves into the 2018 disappearance and death of Cecilia Devine (born Kristen Pearson), whose remains were found months later in a secluded dam far from her home. Hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (Gibby) walk through Devine's life, mental health struggles, last known movements, the complex investigation, and the unanswered questions that haunt her case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction to Cecilia Devine (04:21)

• Background:
  • Born Kristen Pearson in 1976, changed her name to Cecilia Devine in 2016.
  • Described as a talented singer, dancer, and musician (released an album in 2017).
  • Moved back home to Newcastle in 2011 to care for her ailing father, later developed mental health issues, diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
• Family & Mental Health:
  • Her mental illness led to acute episodes; she sometimes discarded her phone, abandoned possessions, and would disappear for extended periods before voluntarily seeking help.
  • Regular cannabis use and inconsistent medication compliance noted by family and friends.
• Quote:
  • “She could assimilate with anyone; that’s a talent.” – Nathan (her brother) [05:00]

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Cecilia’s Disappearance (09:38)

• Timeline:
  • Last seen by neighbors and friends in early September 2018.
  • Police involvement sparked when a neighbor noticed she wasn’t answering her door and rear screen was damaged.
  • Family at first not alarmed due to her history of disappearing during mental health episodes.
• Police Response:
  • Initial checks of her apartment revealed no signs of disturbance; her cats and car were still present, but her phone was missing.
  • Bank activity on September 6 showed transactions in Katoomba (230km from home).
  • Last imaging of her phone was in Maryland, a nearby suburb.

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Last Movements in Katoomba (13:54)

• CCTV Timeline:
  • September 6, 2018: Spotted at Carrington Hotel (barefoot, turned away for not having shoes).
  • Brief interaction with a man on Katoomba St, then purchased shoes, a cardigan, gloves, and a scarf at Rivers Clothing Store.
  • Bought healthy groceries (water, broccoli, tomatoes, bananas, avocado) and withdrew $700 from an ATM at Coles supermarket.
  • Movements after 3:53pm remain unknown.
• Quote:
  • “I’m totally shocked they still had this footage...it’s been six months or so since this happened.” – Mike Ferguson [20:18]

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Discovery of the Body (22:49)

• Remains Found:
  • March 18, 2019: Body discovered nude, face-up, partially concealed by reeds in Upper Cascade Dam, near Katoomba.
  • DNA confirmed identity as Cecilia Devine.
  • Autopsy inconclusive: no cause or manner of death due to decomposition; no signs of trauma detected.
  • Police noted the area was hard to access—no walking tracks, only fire trails, surrounded by dense bushland.
• Family Reaction:
  • Baffled by her presence in Katoomba, a place she had no known connections or reason to visit.
  • “Her family and friends couldn’t imagine why she would have voluntarily gone to an isolated place like the dam.” – Mike Ferguson [23:54]

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Investigation Shortcomings & Theories (24:42, 28:32)

• Missed Opportunities:
  • Police acknowledged key CCTV wasn’t sought until months later—much of the footage was overwritten.
  • The lack of timely investigation hindered the ability to trace her movements and potential suspects.
  • Quote:
    • “Some CCTV opportunities were not taken during the initial investigation.” – Det. Sgt. James Allen [25:28]
    • “They dropped the ball.” – Mike Ferguson [25:46]
• Person of Interest & Evidence:
  • Searches found only a shoe (matching her purchase) and an orange towel with unknown male DNA.
  • Towel’s DNA unmatched; significance unclear.
• Coroner’s Theories:
  • Suicide and natural causes deemed less likely; accident (misadventure) or homicide can’t be excluded.
  • “Everything’s possible. It’s really hard to take anything off the table.” – Mike Ferguson [31:01]

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Forensic Details & Challenges (37:37, 39:35)

• Was She Clothed?
  • Forensic expert discussed whether clothing could naturally separate in water, especially loose-fitting garments.
  • Contradictory conclusions due to unknown water/environmental conditions at time of entry.
  • “It is possible that Cecilia’s clothing could have become separated from her body by natural means within the space of a week.” – Professor Stewart [42:14]
• Aerial Evidence:
  • Aerial photo dated a week after her disappearance showed a body-shaped object in the dam, supporting early presence in the water but complicating theories of accidental entry.

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The Final Inquest and Family’s View (43:34, 48:35)

• Coroner’s Conclusions:
  • Cause, manner, and reason for her presence in Katoomba remains undetermined.
  • Emphasized police’s “regrettable” delay in CCTV searches.
  • “It’s not a lot, but I think that’s to be expected because, man, they just don’t have a lot to work with.” – Mike Ferguson [43:34]
• Family’s Conviction:
  • Believed she met someone who offered help and was possibly murdered:
    • “I know my daughter very well...I know she wouldn’t have gone into the Cascade Dam at all.” – Kathy Pearson (mother) [48:35]
  • Police issued a $500,000 reward; appeal for information continues.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Investigation Delays:
  “They dropped the ball...you can never get that back.” – Mike Ferguson [25:46], [52:15]

• On the Inquest’s Uncertainty:
  “Everything's possible. It's really hard to take anything off the table.” – Mike Ferguson [31:01]

• Family Perspective:
  “She wouldn't have done that and she certainly wouldn’t have stripped her clothes off.” – Kathy Pearson [48:35]

• On the Dam’s Remoteness:
  “It was highly unlikely that a person could proceed through the area barefoot or with inappropriate clothing.” – Det. Senior Constable Michael Gale [37:54]

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Important Timestamps by Topic

• Cecilia’s background, family, and mental health: 04:21–09:38
• Disappearance & initial investigation: 09:38–12:53
• CCTV and Katoomba sightings: 13:54–21:26
• Body discovered, forensics: 22:49–24:42
• Investigative delays, coroner’s theories: 24:42–31:01
• Aerial imaging, dam access analysis: 33:31–37:37
• Forensic garment analysis: 37:37–42:14
• Coroner’s findings, family’s statements: 43:34–49:56
• Final speculations and case wrap-up: 51:09–53:32

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Episode Tone and Flow

The Mikes approach the case with their signature mix of thorough research, factual presentation, respectful discussion of mental health, and occasional wry asides. The tone is serious but humane, mindful of both the investigative failures and the tragedy’s deep impact on Devine’s loved ones.

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Summary

Cecilia Devine’s case remains a haunting Australian mystery, complicated by mental health challenges, investigative missteps, and a lack of evidence. Despite the best efforts in the later stages, the investigation ended with few conclusions and ongoing pain for her family. The episode is both a catalog of what’s known and a critique of what might have been – urging listeners to come forward with any leads that might finally solve the mystery of Cecilia Devine.

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If you have information on the case, contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-333-000 or nsw.crimestoppers.com.au (info treated as confidential).

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Transcript

[Unknown Speaker A]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that's cool.

[Unknown Speaker A]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Unknown Speaker C]

So what's the problem?

[Unknown Speaker A]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Unknown Speaker C]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Unknown Speaker A]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Unknown Speaker D]

Wow.

[Unknown Speaker C]

You need to relax.

[Unknown Speaker A]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?

[Unknown Speaker D]

I think it's laminate.

[Unknown Speaker A]

Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.

[Unknown Speaker C]

Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana.

[Mike Gibson]

Pick up.

[Unknown Speaker C]

Fees may apply.

[Unknown Speaker F]

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[Unknown Speaker C]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 463 of the true Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good, man. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Me too, man. We got a lot going on, but it's good. It's good to be busy.

[Mike Gibson]

My age. I'm just glad I wake up in the morning.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I am too, because I kind of need you. Yeah, as a co host. And for other reasons as well. I mean, you know, not just that. That sounded kind of selfish.

[Mike Gibson]

It did, actually. Really did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, well, let's go ahead and transition and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Natasha Jones.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Natasha? Tony Mathis from the Mathis legacy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Huh? Yana, what's going on?

[Mike Gibson]

Yana?

[Mike Ferguson]

Don Birch.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, hey, thanks, Birch.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lulu.

[Mike Gibson]

L and L. Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Justine.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Justine?

[Mike Ferguson]

Brianna. Michelle.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, that's two first names, you know

[Mike Ferguson]

that I. I'm aware of that, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I just want to make sure I pointed that out to you. Okay, thanks. Michelle.

[Mike Ferguson]

Suzanne. Jackson.

[Mike Gibson]

What's happening, Jackson?

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Dana Stark.

[Mike Gibson]

There's the Stark.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, there's quite a few people who have two first names.

[Mike Gibson]

That is true.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it's a first and a last, but it could be a first.

[Paul from Las Vegas]

It.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. If I was a. My mom always told me my mom

[Mike Ferguson]

said

[Mike Gibson]

if I was born a girl, my name was going to be Michelle. And I said, okay, thanks for telling me that, Mom. I'm a. But I was born as a boy, so I am. Michael, I thought you were going to

[Mike Ferguson]

disclose something that the rest of us didn't know there for a minute. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Stephanie

[Mike Gibson]

Guler or Stefani could be, you know, you never know.

[Mike Ferguson]

But we appreciate all the Patreon support. We have a new episode out right now on True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Robert Che, who was murdered during a home invasion. And this is a. A very brutal crime. His wife and kids were there. They were bound. And then police had to to work hard to identify multiple suspects. And there were a lot of people involved.

[Mike Gibson]

It kind of felt like there was a boatload.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there were a lot. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We are talking about the murder of Cecilia Devine. Cecilia Devine went missing from New Castle, New south whip in September 2018. Her remains were found six months later in a dam near Katoomba, over 200km away. From her home. To date, investigators have not been able to determine the circumstances surrounding Cecilia's death. Cecilia Devine was born Kristen Pearson on December 21, 1976 to parents Kathleen and Murray Pearson. She has two brothers named Nathan and Troy. She legally changed her name to cecilia Devine in 2016. When Cecilia was young, her family moved to Toronto in the New Castle region of New South Wales. Cecilia was a talented singer, dancer and musician. As an adult, she performed solo and with other artists in Australia and overseas. She released her own album in 2017.

[Mike Gibson]

It's almost like when I did my one man band show back in the day.

[Mike Ferguson]

You released an album I did that did not sell well, according to you. And that was the. According to the industry. I think they, they tracked that stuff and that was the end of your musical career.

[Mike Gibson]

I had to shelf it for a little bit.

[Mike Ferguson]

Cecilia's mother said in a statement. She was a talented singer and songwriter with a sparkling smile, infectious laugh, and a Big heart. Her brother Nathan also said about her, she was very much into the music scene with the singing. She loved to be part of the social life. That's why she was so devoted to her singing. She could assimilate with anyone that's a talent. Singing or assimilating?

[Mike Gibson]

Both, actually.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, I see where you're going.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Cecilia lived in Sydney for a period of time, but in 2011, she moved back to Newcastle to help care for her father who was sick. She was deeply affected by his passing in 2012.

[Mike Gibson]

It's tough when you lose a parent, especially one that you're extremely close to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, very tough. By 2013, it was apparent to her family that Cecilia was developing a mental illness. She had gone to Miami to perform. During a trip to New York, she suffered an acute mental health episode and was admitted to the hospital. Her brother Troy traveled to New York to help bring her back to Newcastle, where she was admitted to the hospital. It was there that Cecilia was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She was prescribed medication and began seeing a psychologist after she was discharged. And you know, that would be very scary when you're halfway around the world, right, to get a call that something's going on with your loved one. You got to jump on a flight from Australia to New York. It's not a short flight.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's got to be tough when you're support your family, your people that support you are not with you. Right. You're in a city going through this mental illness all alone. But it's also hard on them too. Right. Because they're not there to give you the support that they want to give you.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they can't just jump in a car and drive 30 minutes. I mean, this is a process, right? Getting on a plane. The flight from Australia to New York and back in the following year, Cecilia used cannabis regularly and did not always take her medication. She experienced further acute mental health episodes, some of which resulted in hospital admissions. And I don't know how unusual this is, Gibbs. I've heard of people doing this, not taking their medication, but kind of almost self medicating with something like cannabis because they feel like it works for them. And maybe it's because they don't like the way that the other medication makes them feel. We've heard that before.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think I've heard other people doing the same thing. Right. They self medicate thinking it's going to be a better way for them to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to her mother, Kathy, when she was having a mental health episode, Cecilia would sometimes discard her phone and other personal property. Because she believed she was being followed, she would sometimes remove her shoes as well. During such episodes, Cecilia would voluntarily seek help at a hospital. She would sometimes be out for 24 hours before she went to a hospital or called an ambulance. Per nine news.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, sounds like a scary thing to go through.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, very scary. But I just wonder if it's being exacerbated by the fact that she's not taking her prescribed medication. Cecilia's close friend Rosemary oh told police that when Cecilia experienced a mental health episode and she would often leave home and walk long distances without telling anyone where she was. She also confirmed that Cecilia would throw away her phone and would eventually get help at a safe place like a hospital.

[Mike Gibson]

It sounds like she had some paranoia.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think so. Throwing the phone away, believing that someone was following her, maybe tracking her through the phone. In 2018, Cecilia was living and working in Hurota, a suburb of Newcastle. A neighbor called the police on the night of September 5, 2018, because they were concerned that Cecilia wasn't answering her door. They also noticed that the rear screen door of her apartment appeared to be damaged. Police went to her apartment and saw that the screen door was locked. She wasn't inside the unit, her cats were inside, and her car was parked in the carport. There were no signs of damage or disturbance. At about 1am the police contacted Cecilia's mother, Kathy. She said that she hadn't heard from her daughter in a couple of days, but this wasn't unusual. Kathy described Cecilia's mental health issues and how she would sometimes leave home. Kathy expected that in accordance with her past behavior, Cecilia would soon seek help at a hospital. And this is something that, you know, we've talked about a lot, a person's pattern of past behavior. Right. That plays a big role in a lot of times how their family kind of reacts to something that is happening now. Okay, she's done this before. We're not that worried. Yeah, because this is pretty regular. And eventually we know she's going to go to the hospital. We'll probably be contacted.

[Mike Gibson]

Just a matter of time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Police called Cathy again on the evening of September 6th. She still hadn't heard from Cecilia, and at this point, she was very concerned. Police did another search of Cecilia's apartment. Inside, they found her friend Jody Dumbleton, who had a key and came to check on her. Jody told police that in the days leading up to September 5th, Cecilia hadn't been doing well and she had stayed with her some nights. She noted that Cecilia had not been taking her medication and regularly smoked cannabis. Cecilia's phone was not found inside her apartment. It's never been located. Records showed that the phone's last location was in the nearby suburb of Maryland. There was no phone activity on September 5th or after. I think, you know, for me, what's kind of clouding this is this past behavior of her kind of getting rid of her phone.

[Mike Gibson]

Right, right. It's not uncommon for her to do this.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, for most people, you would think, well, this is very strange. Everybody has their phone with them and to not see any activity on someone's phone, you would think, oh, I can't be good. But with her, you know, things might look a little differently because of, you know, the fact that she's done this quite often.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, to get rid of her phone, to stop taking her medication and smoke cannabis, for her to disappear for a little bit, it seems like that's been typical for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think at a certain point, right, her mom got worried because it probably went on longer than it had in the past. She probably was not used to going that long without talking to her daughter. Police obtained Cecilia's bank records on September 12. One account showed nothing of interest, but her second account showed transactions in the town of Katoomba on September 6. Katoomba is about 230km from Hurota. On September 24, the officer in charge reviewed CCTV footage which showed a woman who looked like Cecilia in the reception area of the Carrington Hotel around 3:30pm on September 6th. She had a brief conversation with a staff member and then left. Cecilia was also captured on camera having a brief conversation with a man on Katoomba street and was then captured walking down the street alone. On October 29, the officer in charge contacted Sergeant Dallas Atkinson, the supervising sergeant of the Blue Mountains Police Rescue Squad, which serves Katoomba. Sergeant Atkinson advised that there was insufficient information to direct a land search for Cecilia. He recommended that investigators seek out any available footage from CCTV cameras positioned in Katoomba's central retail area.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, in a sense, you have a timeline, Right. At least you know where she's been

[Mike Ferguson]

and you have the charges. Yeah, from her bank account, you know, in that same area. According to Sergeant Atkinson, police inquiries were made to the Katoomba Chamber of Commerce, but they didn't receive a response. Over the following weeks, the officer in charge carried out inquiries and followed up on reported sightings. The officer in charge went on family leave in November 2018 and returned on February 25, 2019. In his absence, colleagues were tasked with following up on reported sightings and maintaining contact with Cecilia's mother. On December 21, 2018, what would have been Cecilia's 42nd birthday, the new Castle City Police issued a statewide appeal for information. It wasn't until March 5, 2019, that further inquiries were made with the Coles supermarket and Rivers clothing store in Katoomba, where Cecilia made transactions.

[Mike Gibson]

Kind of seems unreasonable, like a very

[Mike Ferguson]

long time for that type of investigation to linger, right? They knew where she made the transactions very, very early on, but it wasn't until, what, five, six months had gone by that they actually went to these retailers and asked questions.

[Mike Gibson]

Can't imagine what the excuse would have been for that.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

Maybe after hearing that is why she went to that store to get maybe a pair of shoes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sounds reasonable. The officer in charge also spoke to the man who interacted with Cecilia on Katoomba Street. He didn't have any independent recollection of her. He watched the video of their interaction and thought that based on the way he was pointing, he was showing her the direction of Echo Point. The officer obtained CCTV from the Rivers Clothing Store which showed Cecilia was there around 3:30pm on September 6th. And I'll be honest with you, Gibbs, I'm totally shocked that they still had this footage. I am too, because it has been six months or so since this happened. Actually. Yeah, about six months, yeah. Now, if this would have happened in the late 90s, early 2000s, I don't think they would have had that footage at all.

[Mike Gibson]

They would have cycled through it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Cecilia told sales assistant Lillian Borsma that she had walked a long way, had nowhere to stay and others had been rude to her. She purchased shoes, a men's zip up cardigan, gloves and a scarf. Lillian told Cecilia she might be able to stay at the Salvation army and gave her the address. But no one at the Salvation army recalled seeing her. But I have to ask the question, Gibbs. Would somebody have remembered it six months before?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm thinking the odds would. Well, I think the odds would have been greater than.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they definitely would. The Cole supermarket and Katoomba village area no longer had CCTV footage from September 6th.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, there you go.

[Mike Ferguson]

It doesn't surprise me at all. Sales records were available that showed that Cecilia made a purchase at 3:53pm she bought a bottle of water, broccoli, tomatoes, bananas and an avocado. Just prior to this, she withdrew $700 from an ATM in town.

[Mike Gibson]

So she's definitely being active and healthy

[Mike Ferguson]

and healthy, yeah, that's, you know, if I'm going to the supermarket, that is usually not to what my receipt looks like, but again, I don't eat all that healthy. Also, $700 is a lot of money

[Mike Gibson]

to withdraw and maybe she needed to buy another phone because she's going through phones a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's true. So what all of this meant was that the last known CCTV sighting was of Cecilia taking directions from the man on the street. Her movements after she left Cole shortly after 3.53pm are unknown. On March 18, 2019, Water NSW scientist Wayne Burns was doing work at the Upper Cascade Dam just outside Katoomba. At midday, he observed a decomposed body lying face up in shallow water on the eastern side of the dam. Grasses and reeds wood were growing thickly in this area, which appeared to have prevented the body from drifting away. Police officers recovered the body, which was new. There was no personal property or ID nearby. On April 5, 2019, DNA testing identified the remains as Cecilia Devine.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, mystery solved there. Right? Now we know where she's at. We just don't know what happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we don't know what happened or who was involved if this was not a natural death. And let's be honest, the scene so far doesn't scream natural death. She's nude in the water and we mentioned it, right? This Katoomba is about 230km from her home. It was said that she had no known connection to Katoomba. Her brother said they had no idea why she would be there and they were not aware of anyone she knew in the town. The area where her body was found is surrounded by dense bushland. It's not accessible by car and there were no walking tracks, just fire trails. When Cecilia was experiencing a mental health episode, as suspected around the time of her disappearance, she sought out safe places. Her family and friends couldn't imagine why she would have voluntarily gone to an isolated place like the dam, because she would not have felt safe there, probably

[Mike Gibson]

would have been easy to get confused in an area like that too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, if you're not familiar with it. Cecilia's autopsy couldn't establish a cause or manner of death due to advanced decomposition. Her neck was examined physically and via X ray and ct. The exams didn't detect evidence of acute traumatic fractures. There were no fractures to any other part of her body. There was no way to get blood samples for toxicology testing. Attempts were made to test fragments of her liver and muscle, but these were unsuitable to be tested. So, I mean, they're not really getting a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

No, they're not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Detective Sergeant James Allen, the new lead investigator, later said that he didn't know why the search for CCTV footage was not done until March 2019. In September 2020, he commented that there is limited CCTV footage available for this investigation, and this is attributed to the length of time between September 5, 2018, and March 18, 2019, with most CCTV systems not retaining footage for this length of time, including City Rail. Some CCTV opportunities were not taken during the initial investigation.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, it's good that he's pointing this out, that the previous investigator or investigators missed an opportunity.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And, I mean, I do think he's kind of sugarcoating it a little bit. Right. Some opportunities were not taken. No, they dropped the ball.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, if you really want to be frank about it, I get it. He doesn't want to blast them because it's another agency and, you know, you. You kind of want to tread lightly, but I think if you read between the lines, you get what he's saying. There was a search of the area surrounding the dam in late April 2019 and a search of surrounding dam waters. Only two items were found that had a potential link to Cecilia a shoe and an orange tap. Searchers found a single shoe that matched the pair cecelia purchased on September 6th. It was found in dense vegetation approximately 5 meters from the water of Cascade Creek, which feeds into Upper Cascade Dam. It was found about 300 to 500 meters from where her body was found. So that's an interesting piece of information. I don't know what it means. Does it mean that her body went into the water closer to where the shoe was and her body then drifted, or did the shoe drift? Have no idea?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't think there's a way to tell.

[Mike Ferguson]

The orange tow had the DNA profile of an unknown male listed as profile B. The DNA was linked to a DNA sample that was obtained some years earlier from a motorcycle that was stolen from a man named Cameron Spriggs in May 2020. Spriggs gave a voluntary DNA sample that did not match profile B. Profile B has no match to any stored DNA samples. Thus, there's no evidence linking the tau to Cecilia's case.

[Mike Gibson]

This tau that was found in the general area, then.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it could be right that whoever left this DNA on the tau also had something to do with her death. There's just no evidence linking it. Plus, they don't know who this person is. Yeah. Further land and water searches were done in May, July and August, but nothing was found. So leads ran out and years passed with no answers. A coroner's inquest into Cecilia's Death began on March 15, 2024. The lead investigator, Detective Sergeant James Allen, outlined the theories as to the manner of Cecilia's death and how her body came to be in the dam. He couldn't exclude that Cecilia took her own life, died of natural causes, met with a fatal accident or was killed by another person. So basically, he cannot exclude anything, is what he's saying.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because there's just not enough information to include or exclude anything when it comes to her manner of death. Now, he did say that he considered suicide or death by natural causes less likely. First of all, there was no evidence that Cecilia had tried to end her life in the past. She didn't have any known health conditions. There was no evidence anyone else had a motive to kill her. But homicide or fatal misadventure remained the more likely reasons for her death.

[Mike Gibson]

Fatal misadventure?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm assuming that means like a fatal accident.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is what I'm taking that to mean. And I think, you know, if you're walking around like a dam type area, a body of water, well, obviously there are some scenarios where somebody could slip, fall, go into the water, possibly drown.

[Mike Gibson]

If you're in a really dense area, which this was, you know, that can wear you down as you're trying to get through that area. And maybe you just don't have the strength, if something does happen, to save yourself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, possible. Police looked into several persons of interest, but all were eliminated as potential murder suspects. Detective Sergeant Allen said a likely hypothesis was that Cecilia walked into the bushland, entered the dam and died in a

[Mike Gibson]

case of misadventure, kind of what you just kind of mentioned.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. We don't often hear the word misadventure used, but I do think that that's a likely hypothesis. I understand it. Sergeant Allen stood by evidence that Cecilia could be drawn to water during recovery from a mental health episode. Several witnesses told police Cecilia was a modest person who didn't take her clothes off in public and even swam clothed in her friend's backyard pool. She was most unlikely to have taken off her clothing. In the bushland, maybe.

[Mike Gibson]

But if you're out in the bushland and there's nobody around and you don't foresee anybody coming around, maybe you say, you know, take these clothes off, I'll jump in for a little bit, take a dip, come back out, put some dry clothes on. I don't have to worry about someone peeping in on me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it's one of the problems with this case is everything's possible. It's really hard to take anything off the table. Allen conceded the objective likelihood of Cecilia taking a three kilometer walk to the dam from the grocery store was low. Now, people did say that she often took very long walks. She even told, I think someone at the hotel that she had walked a long way. Yeah, so I don't know. Make of that what you will. Generally, only employees of Water NSW and Sydney Water go to the Upper Cascade Dam. Vehicle access outside daytime hours is prevented by lock gates. Apart from management fire trails, there's no walking tracks in the area and the fire trails do not go directly to the dams. The area where Cecilia was found is 50 meters from the nearest fire trip.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Detective Sergeant Allen explained that if a person were to walk to the Upper Cascade Dam from Katoomba, taking the most direct route, they would go along the streets at the edge of town, which are windy, hilly and poorly lit after sunset. From there, they would take a steep but walkable fire trail leading to the dense bushland.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but then you got to go through the dense bushland trying to wear you down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sergeant Dallas Atkinson, the Blue Mountains Police Rescue Squad, clarified his earlier comment that it was possible other property items were missed during the search. He explained that once a person leaves the fire trail at the point nearest to where the shoe was found, the vegetation leading to the creek and dam gets extremely dense and marshy, which can cause objects to become submerged. For this reason, he considered it unlikely that anyone would have been able to carry or drag a body from the nearest road access to this point and then to the dam's edge. The inquest heard that investigators obtained an aerial mapping image of the Upper Cascades Dam. A company called Nirmat provided aerial images dated September 13, 2018, just seven days after Cecilia was seen alive. The images showed an object in the shape of a body lying on the surface of shallow waters. The location was 65 meters from where Cecilia was found six months later. The height of the photos made it impossible to discern any distinguishable features on the body. The body did appear to be in an unclothed state.

[Mike Gibson]

Most likely her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Either that or you have multiple bodies.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In this, you know, water. I think what's interesting to me is that the location of it six months prior to it being found is 65 meters away.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So if that's her, then I think you can completely discount the theory that that's where her body went into the water. More likely it went in somewhere else. And that's where her body ended up.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

The coroner concluded that the body was Cecilia based on the time between the images and the last known sighting, the geographical proximity of the body in the images to her last known location in Katoomba, and the proximity of the body in the images to where her body and shoe were later found. The counsel for Cecilia's family raised concern about the possibility that she was harmed by another person and expressed their wishes for further investigation. The coroner adjourned the inquest for four months to allow for further investigation. And I don't blame her family. In Thinking that, you know, there's a possibility here that somebody killed her, so

[Mike Gibson]

there's no reason to rush it. They have the body, so let's take the time to do some more investigation to give the family the answers that they deserve.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't see any harm in that. My other thought is I don't feel like they have enough information to really conclusively decide anything at this point. The inquest met a second time on July 5, 2024. The inquest heard that in June police conducted a search of the bushland but didn't find anything. Detective Senior Constable Michael Gale described the terrain they searched as dense with thick ground cover that caused you to sink as you walked. He concluded that it was highly unlikely that a person could proceed through the area barefoot or with inappropriate clothing. So what do you make of that?

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it sounds like he's saying she didn't walk in there on her own.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's, that's the way I'm taking it as well. The inquest addressed the question of how Cecilia's clothing was removed during the adjournment period. An expert report was sought from Barbara Stewart, an associate professor who does research in forensic decomposition chemistry at the inquest. Professor Stewart identified factors which may cause clothing to be removed from the body of a person who has been immersed in water, such as type of clothing, water temperature, current or tidal action, body composition and the manner in which the body came to be in the water. Cecilia was wearing a loose fitting, long sleeved top, a shirt and pants. Loose fitting clothes are more easily removed in water. Cecilia purchased a zip front jumper, but it's not known whether she wore it. Assuming she had done so, Professor Stewart commented that it was impossible to say whether this garment would have been a tight or a loose fit. If it was loose, it was feasible that within the space of a week, the time between her disappearance and the aerial photos, it would become separated from her body by natural means. If zipped up, it would have been tighter and more difficult to be separated from her body.

[Mike Gibson]

So a lot of variables there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think a lot of variables. But it's interesting to think about or, you know, kind of look at scientifically, whether or not she could have been fully clothed when either she went into the water or was put into the water by someone else and her clothes all came off in the water.

[Mike Gibson]

I also think it's a good knowledge to have next time Frank the tank decides to go running through the quad naked like you do sometimes, that you can tell the police when they Pick you up, that you initially had clothes on, but they were loose fitting and based on this theory, your clothes came off.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's how my clothes got off, yeah. Whether it was zipped up or not, the jumper was most unlikely to have remained on her body over the period between her disappearance and the discovery of her body. And I thought that was an interesting statement. You would think a zipped up jumper would not come off as easily as a, a loose fitting top.

[Mike Gibson]

That was exactly how I was thinking. Like, if it wasn't zipped up, I can grasp that. But to be zipped up now, how,

[Mike Ferguson]

how far is it zipped up? Right. All the way up to the neckline? Probably not. Most people don't. So I don't know exactly what this jumper looked like, but, you know, this person's an expert, so you have to take what they say very seriously. The water in the upper Cascade Dam was described as notably cold. The cooler water would delay the onset of decomposition and bloating, which would enable the clothing to be more easily separated from the body. Now, I understand that Professor Stewart noted that the dam was reported to be a stable environment without currents or tides and was protected from winds. This might be expected to reduce the potential for clothes to be forced from the body. So she's given a lot of great information, but some of it's contradictory.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, like that statement as to whether

[Mike Ferguson]

or not the clothes were likely to have come off. Submerged debris increased the water pressure on a body and could attach to clothing, which causing it to become snagged and to be pulled off. So taking all these factors into account, it is possible that Cecilia's clothing could have become separated from her body by natural means within the space of a week of her entering the water. Professor Stewart made it clear that it was impossible to determine the extent to which these factors were present around the time that she entered the water. So it's a lot of great information and frankly a lot of stuff I didn't really know or have never thought about. But what does it really tell us? Not a lot, because we don't know the full extent of the conditions of the water when she went in.

[Mike Gibson]

You just wish they would say, nope, couldn't happen, or yep, it did happen.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And I think a lot of times that's hard. Part of that is because her body wasn't found for many, many months. For this reason, the coroner could not conclude that Cecilia's body became unclothed by natural means. On October 22, 2024, the Coroner's Court of New South Wales issued the findings of the inquest. The coroner concluded that her death took place on or after September 6, but no later than September 13. The evidence also enables the conclusion that she died in the area of Upper Cascade Dam. The evidence does not enable a finding to be made as to the cause of her death. A finding could not be made as to whether the manner of death was misadventure or homicide by a person or persons unknown. There is insufficient evidence to establish the cause and manner of death. So, I mean, it's. It's not a lot, but I think that's to be expected because, man, they just don't have a lot to work with.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's limited information that they have. I like that they didn't label it one way or the other, though, that they left it where they did, because we've seen other cases where they went the other direction when they probably should never have.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. In this case, you would kind of still call it, like, undetermined right, as opposed to coming out and conclusively saying, well, it was this, when in reality you don't have the facts to back that up. The coroner noted that it was regrettable that work wasn't done at an earlier stage to seek out CCTV footage of the Katoomba Village retail area. He said, of course, it cannot be known that if this had been done, it would have changed the tragic outcome, but it may have provided some answers to the many questions which remain about Cecilia's movements that afternoon.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a shame.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is a shame. The coroner noted that a significant mystery remains as to the possibility of misadventure. And they really like that term, misadventure? Yes, they do, over in Australia. How did Cecilia get to be in the area of the dam? Assuming she went there voluntarily, there's no evidence she was familiar with the area. It may be that after making her purchases in town, she decided to go for a walk and got lost in the bushland. This is not unfeasible. Taking into account the density of the bushland, the lack of light and the fact that she had no phone. Her family somewhat supports this hypothesis, but also notes that at times when she went out on her own, she sought safe places. And I know they brought that up a couple of times. I get that. I also understand that an unfamiliar dam or a place like that doesn't seem to scream safe place.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

This thick bushland doesn't scream safe place.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

The police also announced a $500,000 reward in hopes of encouraging people who may have seen Cecilia to come forward. Superintendent John Nelson of the Blue Mountains Police Area Command said prior to her disappearance, Cecilia traveled from Newcastle to Katoomba. Yet we still don't have firm evidence of how she got there, why she made the journey, or how she died. And I think he really does a good job of kind of summing it up. It's one thing that we really haven't talked a lot about yet. We said that Katoomba was about 230km from where she lived.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a healthy hike.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is a long walk. If that's how she got there. Yeah. If that's not how she got there, then how did she. Did she hitch a ride with someone? Did somebody give her a ride? That could all play into this. If we knew the answers, I mean,

[Mike Gibson]

you would think she probably had to get a ride, but maybe not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why keep going back to the fact that so many different people said that, you know, when she experienced some of her periods of mental health issues, she would go on these long walks. Now, what is meant by the term long walks? Because, let's face it, 230km is a 2, is to me, more than a long walk.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

A long walk for me is from the studio to my refrigerator. So that is. That's a long way. I don't even want to drive 230km. I sure as hell don't want to walk it.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that would be like you walking from here to my house back and forth, what, a number of times?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know the number yet.

[Mike Gibson]

Too many times. And you would take you days, if you could even do it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, for, you know, our US listeners, it's like 143 miles. Yeah, it's. It's a long time. That's roughly, what, almost two and a half hours by car?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, if you're driving 55 or 60 miles an hour, I don't have a clue how long that would take to walk. Too long, and I'm never going to find out. I'm sure not going to force Gump it at any point and go. Just start running or walking to see how long I can go. But maybe some people would. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know. I have a feeling she probably got a ride at some point. But that's just my personal thought.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 2024, Cecilia's mother, Kathy Pearson, told A Current Affair, I believe someone has done this horrible, horrible thing. I know my daughter very well. I'm her mom, and I know she wouldn't have gone into the Cascade Dam at all. She was seeking somewhere safe to sleep. That's all she was looking for. She wouldn't have done that and she certainly wouldn't have stripped her clothes off. Despite the fact that Cecilia often went on long walks, her mom believes she would not have gone to the dam. She said, I think she's gone with this person and he's offered, or she has offered a place where she can stay, because that's all she'd be thinking about. I need a place to stay and I understand, you know, what place that comes from. I mean, she even mentioned to somebody at the store, right, she knew she didn't have a place to stay. Yeah. That person said, well, maybe you can stay at the Salvation Army. Is it possible that she met someone? And that person said, you know what? I'll help you out. I got a place where you can stay. She got into a vehicle with that person and then things went really, really badly from there.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, in her state of mind at that time, she could have been an easy target.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, she could have been.

[Mike Gibson]

Someone took advantage of that situation and did something really bad.

[Mike Ferguson]

As of 2026, the circumstances surrounding the death of Cecilia Devine remain unsolved. Anyone with information that may assist investigators is urged to contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-333-000 or at nsw.crimestoppers.com Information is treated in strict confidence. The public is reminded not to report information via NSW Police social media pages.

[Mike Gibson]

They want to keep it confidential.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and they probably don't want it to be public right off the bat. Yeah, which it would be on any type of social media page, I think. You know, Gibbs, as we wrap this case up, there is a lot of mystery here. I mean, if this case were to be solved, and I'm not exactly sure how it would be solved with so much unknown, but let's say the facts somehow could be 100% concretely known.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think there are a couple of different scenarios. One is that she had some type of accident around this dam area, hit her head, maybe somehow fell in the water, drowned. It's a possibility, yeah. Is there a possibility that she decided to end her life? Yeah, I think it's a possibility. It's not high on the list for me because I don't think that this is a way that a lot of people would choose if they were making the decision to end their life. And then I think you have to look at something along the lines of foul play. She's in an area with which she has very little to no connection. She doesn't know anybody there as far as we could ascertain. How hard is it to think that maybe somebody offered her some help and that person had really bad intentions?

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's a possibility.

[Mike Ferguson]

The problem I have is because they did wait so long, Right. Six months or so to start looking for or asking about this CCTV footage. I think that really hampers the investigation and it's something that you can never get back. So it doesn't help in solving the case moving forward.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I don't know what would, outside of a confession or something like that. I really don't know how this case would be solved.

[Mike Gibson]

I feel like it would be difficult.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know that anybody's going to discover some magical piece of evidence that, you know, links somebody. Now maybe the DNA on that towel finally gets identified and it turns out to be a serial killer who was roaming, you know, around the. The area there in Australia at that time. And maybe they're able to link that person to Cecilia's death. But it's very mysterious.

[Mike Gibson]

It is mysterious, but we'll see if

[Mike Ferguson]

any information comes out in the future. But that's it for our episode on Cecilia Devine. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Paul from Las Vegas]

Hey. Holy shit. I can't believe you guys played my voicemail. That's awesome, Mike. I did not mean that when I said f you. That was just a friendly fu, you know, I think you guys are awesome. You're both great. And anyways. Oh, yeah, this is Paul from Las Vegas. And anyways, I think I'm gonna look up when CrimeCon comes, maybe go say hi. Love you guys. Bye.

[Mike Ferguson]

Love you too, man. I don't remember if I played that voicemail on TCAD or TCAT unsolved, but it was a memorable voicemail for me. I didn't take offense by it. I just thought it was funny.

[Mike Gibson]

You did?

[Mike Ferguson]

In the way that. That he said it. Yeah. And, yeah. I didn't know that there was. What do you call it, a playful Fu or a lovable Fu or. I don't know, either one.

[Mike Gibson]

F you, buddy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Hey, it. But I. I kind of took it from the. The voicemail because he's like, I love the show. And then just at the very end, he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I kind of took that as joking, but either way, I was still gonna sleep at night, you know?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, yeah, it's cool that he called back in to clarify it Maybe we'll

[Mike Gibson]

see him at Crimecon or at one of the tables out in Vegas. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hey, we're gonna be there in about a month.

[Mike Gibson]

It is. It's about a month.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, when we're taping this. So. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

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Hey, he's back.

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Hunt.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sammy. The puppy I had when I was a kid. He's right there by the couch.

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Could this be related to his Parkinson's? What's Sammy doing?

[Mike Ferguson]

Wagging his tail. He wants to play.

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[Mike Ferguson]

You really don't?

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[Mike Ferguson]

He came back to see me.

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Let's see, payroll, Check.

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