Mike Gibson (1:51)

What's going on, Lemus?

Mike Ferguson (1:53)

Christy.

Mike Gibson (1:53)

Hey, Christy.

Mike Ferguson (1:54)

Robert McLeod.

Mike Gibson (1:56)

Good old Robert.

Mike Ferguson (1:57)

Joe. Roscom.

Mike Gibson (1:58)

Hey, Roscom. Knock em.

Mike Ferguson (1:59)

Spiffy jumped out at our highest level.

Mike Gibson (2:02)

There's Spiffy.

Mike Ferguson (2:03)

Claire.

Mike Gibson (2:04)

Well, hi, Claire.

Mike Ferguson (2:05)

Nikki Gaddis Thompson.

Mike Gibson (2:07)

Well, thanks, Nikki.

Mike Ferguson (2:08)

Brandon. Kilo.

Mike Gibson (2:09)

What's going on, Kilo?

Mike Ferguson (2:11)

Christina. Sorn.

Mike Gibson (2:12)

Don't be sorn.

Mike Ferguson (2:14)

Kylie. Jo.

Mike Gibson (2:15)

Hey, Kylie.

Mike Ferguson (2:15)

And last but not least, Victoria. Summer.

Mike Gibson (2:18)

Well, thanks, Summer.

Mike Ferguson (2:19)

And then we go back into the vault. This week we selected Taylor Aylesworth.

Mike Gibson (2:25)

Thanks, Ailsworth.

Mike Ferguson (2:26)

Yes, we appreciate the new Patreon. Support. Continued support. It all means a lot.

Mike Gibson (2:31)

It does.

Mike Ferguson (2:33)

So, Gibbs, we have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Bernard Finch headed back to the 50s. Finch was this, you know, prominent, wealthy doctor having an affair. And then, wouldn't you know it, his wife is found dead and it's really Finch and his lover who become the prime suspect.

Mike Gibson (2:59)

Yeah, it's kind of LA Confidential.

Mike Ferguson (3:02)

Yeah, there's a lot to it because, you know, it's he said, she said. There's also multiple juries.

Mike Gibson (3:09)

There was.

Mike Ferguson (3:10)

So they had trouble deciding on who was guilty and what the real facts of the the case were. But it's a good episode. Make sure you check it out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time unsolved?

Mike Gibson (3:26)

I am ready.

Mike Ferguson (3:27)

We're talking about the murder of Darren Seals. Darren seals became a prominent activist in Ferguson, Missouri, after the shooting of Michael Brown. After he was murdered in September 2016, rumors and theories spread that he was killed because of his activism. So, you know, the Michael Brown incident was big news, huge news. And then you have this guy who's murdered in 2016, and we have all these rumors, theories, and speculation. We'll get into all of it. Darren Seals Jr. Was born on May 15, 1987 and grew up in Ferguson, Missouri. He was longtime friends with family members of Michael Brown. According to the pop culture website complex, Darren experienced violence as a young man. On August 3, 2013, he was shot outside his cousin's home. He described the shooting in detail in a 2015 Facebook post. Darren wrote that he just come back to his cousin's house after work and was waiting outside for his ride. Someone he didn't know approached and shot him seven times. Darin was first shot in the stomach, which sent him flying backwards. He wrote in his post. At first I thought I was dead. Cause it all went blank after that first shot. But then as I heard all the other ones coming, I snapped into defense mode. I blocked three bullets heading towards my face. Two with the left hand, one with the right. Then as I fell, two more bullets ripped through my shoes. One getting the side of my foot, the other going through my two small toes. I was so numb at the moment, I couldn't feel the pain. I just laid there calmly so the bullets wouldn't travel. The first thing I thought about was the most important person in the world to me, and that's my baby brother Byron. What would he do without me? How would he feel if I die right now? How's he going to take it?

Mike Gibson (5:33)

And I can't imagine going through that.

Mike Ferguson (5:35)

Well, you know, you see in movies all the time where people are shot multiple times. My wife and I were actually watching a movie the other day where a person was shot two or three times, and she said, you know, how is he not dead? And it does kind of depend on where a person is shot. Sure, you can have shots that pass through. They don't hit Vital organs. It's going to hurt like hell, but you could survive. But being shot seven times, that's a lot.

Mike Gibson (6:10)

It is. I am having a little bit of matrix moment there, thinking about how he's blocking those shots.

Mike Ferguson (6:16)

Well, he's blocking them by holding his hands above his face. Right. He's not bending over backwards and the bullets are flying over him, completely missing him.

Mike Gibson (6:27)

He's still taking them.

Mike Ferguson (6:28)

But to be fair, if he doesn't put his hands up, he probably doesn't survive. True, Darren wrote that he'd been shot once before this, but he had never seen that amount of blood before. He moved his legs to see if he was paralyzed. Once he realized he could move, he crawled into his cousin's house and someone called the police. Darin spent almost two weeks in the hospital. It took six months for his life to go back to normal. And I get it, at some point, life goes on, but does it ever go back to normal? Now, he said he'd been shot before, which is scary to think about. It is being involved in two different shooting incidents. But to think about, like a drive by where you're just standing outside of your home, you're not doing anything wrong, someone rides by and just starts unloading on you. That's a very scary thought.

Mike Gibson (7:28)

It is. And to the point, the one shot hits you so hard it blows you back. I wonder what kind of caliber would do that.

Mike Ferguson (7:35)

Well, I think off the bat you would think, okay, maybe a bigger caliber, larger caliber. But it could also be that, you know, you have a bullet that's moving maybe a thousand, twelve hundred feet per second. And the inertia, I don't know.

Mike Gibson (7:56)

There you go, throwing out big scientific names.

Mike Ferguson (7:58)

Well, I'm just trying to think if it is the shot itself or maybe that coupled with a person's reaction to being shot.

Mike Gibson (8:10)

Yeah, that's true.

Mike Ferguson (8:11)

That kind of causes you to move backwards. According to his friend and fellow activist, Maya Ayton White, per the Washington Post, every time he talked about getting shot, he would say that moment forever changed his life. In that moment, he made an agreement with himself to give his life to his community.

Mike Gibson (8:34)

I think if you got shot, that would change your life.

Mike Ferguson (8:36)

I don't know how it's not going to now. Maybe for different people, it's going to change it in different ways. I think for a lot of people, you know, it may. It would make them more fearful. Others, maybe you start to say, okay, I survived this, I'm going to live my life differently. I'm going to, you know, do all the things that I was afraid to do before. I don't know. After getting out of the hospital, Darren decided he would join anti gun violence activists. He later became an activist against police brutality. And Darren was among the first protesters in Ferguson after Michael Brown was shot on August 9, 2014. So we just said, you know, people would react differently. It sounds like Darren Seals made the decision that, you know, he was going to become an activist or increase his activism and really focus it around gun violence and then later around police brutality.

Mike Gibson (9:43)

Which makes sense since he was shot twice.

Mike Ferguson (9:46)

He developed a close relationship with Michael Brown's immediate family and was inspired to co found Hands Up United, an activist collective. He worked a day job at his local General Motors plant, but Darin was also involved in his community, hosting Thanksgiving dinners and giving out Christmas gifts to people in need. So he's got a lot going on.

Mike Gibson (10:09)

Sounds like it.

Mike Ferguson (10:10)

Full time job at gm. You know, he's co founding this, this activist collective, but it also sounds like he's trying to do some good things, you know, good deeds in the neighborhood as well. Fellow activists and organizers told the Washington Post that Darren was passionate but polarizing. The Post reported, not in the business of earning goodwill. Seals was scorned by many prominent activists, yet beloved by a cadre of local activists who regarded him as a brave truth teller. Okay, what do you take from that?

Mike Gibson (10:47)

I mean, passionate but polarizing and not.

Mike Ferguson (10:50)

In the business of earning goodwill. To me, couple that with, you know, being called a brave truth teller, it sounds like he wasn't going to hold back.

Mike Gibson (11:03)

Yes.

Mike Ferguson (11:04)

And he was going to say some things that maybe would make him unpopular with some.

Mike Gibson (11:12)

Sounds like he wasn't afraid to stir the pot.

Mike Ferguson (11:14)

Yeah. I also thought it was interesting that the Post said he was scorned by many prominent activists, yet beloved by local activists.

Mike Gibson (11:26)

It sounds like maybe some of the national people that would come in he wasn't too fond of or spoke out.

Mike Ferguson (11:34)

Against them or something like that. A post from November 2014 shows his views on activism. Darren wrote, per the Washington Post, caught my first felony at the age of 18 for slamming a cop on his head. Was shot seven times and had a smile on my face the whole time. I'm a fighter and I've been one all my life. I do what I do because I'm fearless. I don't fear jail, death, nothing. I ain't asked for the cameras. That's not why I went out there August 9th. Hell, I would have never guessed this would get this big. I went out there because I'm too much of a man to sit back and do nothing while innocent boys are murdered by a cop. So obviously, August 9, he's talking about the Ferguson protests over the shooting of Michael Brown. In an interview with MTV, Darren said he was with Michael Brown's mother on November 24, 2014, the day a grand jury chose not to indict the officer who shot Brown. Darren called the decision not to indict the ultimate slap in the face. He added, and for Mike Brown's mother to be right there in my arms crying, she literally cried in my arms. It was like I felt her soul crying. It's a different type of cry. I've seen people crying, but she was really hurt, and it hurt me. It hurt all of us. So he has very passionate, very strong views. Right. On how the investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown went down. But a lot of people disagree with Darren's views on certain issues. He often criticized former President Obama for not doing enough to reform police departments.

Mike Gibson (13:26)

Yeah, I'm sure some people weren't happy that he was criticizing Obama.

Mike Ferguson (13:31)

Well, here's my thing. When you take very strong positions, some people are going to agree with you and some people are not.

Mike Gibson (13:41)

Absolutely.

Mike Ferguson (13:43)

The more polarizing the subject that you're taking the position on, I think more often the stronger the support or the stronger the opposition because people are more fired up about it.

Mike Gibson (13:56)

That's true.

Mike Ferguson (13:57)

Darren also supported a plan to send a message to St. Louis County's elected leadership, which was mostly Democratic, by voting for Republicans in the first round of elections after Michael Brown's death. Darren also spoke out against the Black Lives Matter movement. According to cnn, he accused BLM of hijacking the Ferguson protests. Darren expressed his views in a May 2015 Facebook post saying, millions and millions flowing through the hands of these organizations in the name of Mike Brown. Yet with we still don't see any of it coming into the Ferguson community or being used to help our youth.

Mike Gibson (14:40)

So he's frustrated about that.

Mike Ferguson (14:42)

Yeah. Again, he has a very strong position on a number of things. Many activists distanced themselves from Darren because of his social media posts, which some said contained homophobic or misogynistic undertones. So maybe that helps explain why there were some prominent activists who weren't fond of it. You're not. You're not helping us if you're using homophobic or misogynistic undertones in your postings.

Mike Gibson (15:18)

So we need to put some distance in between us.

Mike Ferguson (15:21)

Yeah, we're not aligning with you. Photojournalist Bradley Radford told the Washington Post. His Facebook page shows how controversial he was. Under every post there was some kind of argument over what he was saying. He was always on 100.

Mike Gibson (15:38)

Well, it sounds like he wasn't afraid of debate.

Mike Ferguson (15:42)

Well, I think you're going to have a debate when you say anything that is even remotely controversial on social media. Hell, you can say some things that aren't controversial at all and people are not going to agree with you.

Mike Gibson (15:57)

Hey, I really enjoy some ketchup on my hot dog.

Mike Ferguson (16:00)

Ketchup is horrible. How can you even say you like ketchup? Yeah, Basim Masri A friend of Darren said Darren Seals didn't just talk about what we need to do, he went and did it. His dream was to open a youth center in Ferguson, one where any child could go and learn, play sports and be empowered. This is what Darren Seals was about. Okay, that seems like a good dream.

Mike Gibson (16:26)

Sure does.

Mike Ferguson (16:27)

Darren publicly clashed with prominent activists on social media, including DeRay McKesson, a former school administrator who traveled to Ferguson to join the protests and became one of the most prominent activists in the nation. In February 2015, Darrin was at a protest outside the Ferguson Police Department in and confronted McKesson. According to previous interviews with both men, Darren approached him and accused him of stealing money from local protest groups. This accusation has never been substantiated. McKesson smirked in response and Darren slapped him in the face. Okay, Bold.

Mike Gibson (17:08)

Very bold.

Mike Ferguson (17:08)

Bold also possibly chargeable. You're talking about assault.

Mike Gibson (17:14)

Sure.

Mike Ferguson (17:16)

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Mike Gibson (17:33)

Well, whatever you want it to so.

Mike Ferguson (17:35)

You can all enjoy the payoff come summer with Vrbo's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings $550 select homes only minimum 7 day stay required. In the months before his death, Darren's friend said he was making plans for a boycott that he hoped would renew the conversation about police brutality. Darren also uploaded a Facebook live video sharing his encounter with the Ferguson police, claiming officers drew guns on him and his younger brother. In October 2015, Darren made a Facebook post that has been cited many times in articles he wrote if I was to die young and in parentheses he said hopefully that won't happen. Share memories, Laugh together. Cry if you smoke or drink, Light one in the air and pour out A little liquor and lay me to rest. He wrote that he didn't want a big funeral. He just wanted a few friends and family to share memories about him. Darren was murdered less than a year later. He was just 29 years old. So, I mean, I think, you know, the Facebook post is referenced a lot because it becomes prophetic. He's talking about if I die young, right? Well, he did die young.

Mike Gibson (18:55)

Kind of foreshadowing.

Mike Ferguson (18:57)

Yeah. At 1:50am on September 6, 2016, the police responded to a disturbance report in the riverview suburb of St. Louis County. Darren's body was found inside a burning vehicle on a residential street with apartments and single family homes. He had been shot, but sources did not disclose how many times or where he was shot. The St. Louis Post Dispatch reported that Darren lived less than five miles from the crime scene. It appeared to be a targeted attack. And we've kind of mentioned it already, but Darren claimed he was being harassed by local police, which caused speculation that the police were involved in his death. This rumor has never been proven, so just speculation. Yeah, but you're going to have a lot of speculation, rumors, theories in a case like this. You have an African American male in Darren Seals who is clashing with the police over protests of police brutality.

Mike Gibson (20:06)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (20:07)

So is it going to be that much of a leap for some people to start to think that the police might have had something to do with it?

Mike Gibson (20:17)

No, no, I think it's going to be pretty easy for some people.

Mike Ferguson (20:21)

Well, especially when it happens in this area in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting. You've got all these different protests happening. He seems to be in the middle of a lot of it. I could see how some people might, you know, leap to that conclusion. Darren's murder made national headlines. DeRay Mckesson tweeted after the news broke. We can live in a world where people don't die by violence. Nobody deserves to die. We did not always agree, but he should be alive today.

Mike Gibson (20:58)

And we know they didn't agree.

Mike Ferguson (21:00)

No, they didn't agree. Now, what he says in his statement is very true from the standpoint of, you know, nobody like this deserves to die. No, they don't. Regardless of your opinions, your views, stuff like that, none of that means that someone deserves to die.

Mike Gibson (21:24)

No, you have the right to take a stance on whatever you want to take a stance on.

Mike Ferguson (21:28)

Now, where he says, we can live in a world where people don't die by violence. Yeah, that's a great thought. I think we all wish for that.

Mike Gibson (21:36)

Sure we do.

Mike Ferguson (21:37)

I Don't know how it's ever going to happen. You know, whether it's gun violence or any other type of violence, there always has been violence and unfortunately, I think there always will be.

Mike Gibson (21:51)

I agree with you. I don't know how that would ever end.

Mike Ferguson (21:54)

On the night of September 6, activists and friends gathered at the crime scene to hold a vigil. They built a memorial on top of the asphalt where Darren's car was burned. Heather Demian told the Washington Post that when she arrived, there were pieces of vehicle debris and shell casings left behind. She said the memorial is constructed on top of his car door, which the police just left there. You would think the car door would be important evidence that there might be fingerprints. You know, the police just left it there.

Mike Gibson (22:28)

So not happy with the investigation already.

Mike Ferguson (22:31)

And we're very early on, St. Louis County Police Public Information Coordinator Sgt. Sean McGuire said in response to criticisms of how the crime scene was left. Our department conducts investigations as professionally as possible. In every case. We've reached out to community members like we do in every homicide case. The public is crucial in all of these investigations. And I would say that is a true statement. It doesn't in any way address the car door allegation.

Mike Gibson (23:04)

It doesn't.

Mike Ferguson (23:05)

But we don't know what type of investigation they did at the scene. Did they dust for Prince? Could they not dust for Prince? The car was on fire. So I really don't know. It does seem like one of those kind of non answer answers. I like that or pat answers, you know. Hundreds of people came to Darren's funeral later that month. His father, Darren Seale Sr. Said, per the St. Louis Post Dispatch, I miss my son. I miss him a lot. I forgive the person who killed him because I'm a Christian. God is going to deal with you.

Mike Gibson (23:42)

What a terrible way for your son to die. Right.

Mike Ferguson (23:44)

Oh, you know, whether you agree with Darren's stance on the things that he was saying to me, that doesn't matter in the the slightest. I go back to what McKesson said where, you know, nobody deserves to die.

Mike Gibson (24:02)

No.

Mike Ferguson (24:03)

Especially for your beliefs or your, you know, your stances on different situations. People can agree with you, they can disagree with you. That's kind of how this country was formed.

Mike Gibson (24:18)

It is.

Mike Ferguson (24:18)

It's kind of what it's based on.

Mike Gibson (24:20)

You don't agree. Debate it then.

Mike Ferguson (24:21)

Yeah.

Mike Gibson (24:22)

Or be quiet about it.

Mike Ferguson (24:23)

You have the freedom to think what you want to think, but nobody should be killed for that type of thought. Lewis Reed, president of the St. Louis Board of Aldermen said that when people read about the protests following Michael Brown's death, Darren's name would be part of those records. He emphasized that Darren was focused on making a positive change. So, you know, there were a lot of good things right. Said about Darren Seals. There were a lot of people that didn't agree with him. It was soon noted that Darren's murder was eerily similar to the murder of 20 year old DeAndre Joshua, who was killed on November 24, 2014, the same day as the grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case. He was shot and and left in a burning vehicle. Someone poured accelerant on his body.

Mike Gibson (25:19)

So similar.

Mike Ferguson (25:20)

As reported by the Washington Post, there were rumors that Joshua testified before the grand jury looking into Brown's death. However, Joshua was friends with Dorian Johnson, the most well known witness to the shooting. His family insisted Joshua was not at the shooting. The St. Louis county prosecuting Attorney's office also told the Washington Post that Jones Joshua was not a grand jury witness. So that was a rumor. Right, that he testified before the grand jury and then, then obviously I'm sure the speculation was that him testifying somehow led to him being killed and burned inside his car. So.

Mike Gibson (26:04)

So similar to like a conspiracy theory.

Mike Ferguson (26:07)

Yeah. But was proven to not really hold a lot of water when it comes out that, you know, he wasn't at the shooting. He didn't testify at the grand jury. So I'm not sure how that would have been a motive for someone to kill him and set his car on fire. Police said Darren's murder appeared to be unrelated to DeAndre Joshua's murder. Just seems like they were eerily similar, but could be completely unrelated. County Police spokesman Sean McGuire said per the LA Times, at this time, the two homicides are not linked. So I take that to mean it doesn't necessarily mean they can't be connected. They just haven't been connected or linked.

Mike Gibson (26:56)

Yeah, right now we don't have a way to put them together.

Mike Ferguson (26:59)

McGuire did say such cases were unusual, but the St. Louis City Police did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The AP quoted Maguire as saying that witnesses refused to come forward. He added, we don't believe either one was connected to each other. It's tough to come up with a motive without a suspect.

Mike Gibson (27:21)

Well, that goes without saying, but you certainly can see why people think they're connected.

Mike Ferguson (27:26)

Yeah, because of the similarities. There's also quasi connections to the Michael Brown shooting. But to me, you know, I can see why a lot of people kind of right off the bat Would point to what Darren Seales was passionate about. You know, this activism as possibly being the reason why someone wanted him dead.

Mike Gibson (27:54)

And at the same time, we know that there was a lot of distrust with some people in that city, but they're not going to believe the police are really looking into this investigation.

Mike Ferguson (28:03)

Oh, distrust towards the police?

Mike Gibson (28:04)

Yes.

Mike Ferguson (28:05)

Oh, absolutely. Cori Bush, a leader of the Ferguson protest, told theep something is happening. I've been vocal about the things that I've experienced and still experience. The harassment, the intimidation, the death threats, the death attempts. She claimed that her car had been run off the road, her home was vandalized, and someone shot at her and her daughter while they were in a vehicle. Okay, that does seem like a lot of bad things does happening to her. The murder of Darren Seals fueled the rumor that prominent Ferguson protesters were targeted for their activism. And again, why would people not think that was a possibility?

Mike Gibson (28:49)

Well, they're trying to show that there's a case for that.

Mike Ferguson (28:51)

Yeah. Multiple sources cited similar murders that occurred in the St. Louis area. 24 year old Darnell Robinson was found dead in a burning car in September 2014. He suffered gunshot wounds to the head. Unlike the two previously mentioned murders, this case was solved. Darnell Robinson was driving the vehicle when he was shot. In the passenger seat was Dana Wallace, who later admitted to encouraging his cousin to kill Robinson in retaliation for a break in at another man's apartment the day before he. His cousin, Bryant Evans, was in the backseat. He testified that he killed Robinson after previously claiming Wallace shot him. Dylan Irizarry set the car on fire and ran off.

Mike Gibson (29:39)

Well, look, I mean, you can see why maybe they would start the fire in the car. It's going to destroy potential evidence.

Mike Ferguson (29:47)

Yeah, yeah. Investigators on a lot of the different shows that you watch where a house is burned down or a car is burned, Any place where it's thought that the crime occurred. They're pretty honest in that. Fire is a good way to destroy evidence. Unfortunately, the three individuals were charged for their respective roles in the murder. Irizarry was sentenced to five years probation, but later violated probation and was sentenced to 12 years in prison. Bryant was sentenced to 20 years in prison. Dana Wallace took a plea deal after his trial ended in a hung jury and was sentenced to seven years in prison. So, okay, it's a murder in St. Louis. St. Louis is a big city. There are a lot of murders in the city of St. Louis.

Mike Gibson (30:41)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Mike Ferguson (30:42)

Here you have someone killed in a car. The car is then set on fire. Okay. We said the Other two were eerily similar. Well, you would have to say this one is as well. The difference is there was nothing about Darnell Robinson being an activist or, you know, anything along those lines. And it comes out once the case is solved that it didn't have anything to do with that.

Mike Gibson (31:10)

Some of those sentences seem to be pretty light.

Mike Ferguson (31:13)

Yeah, a little light. On November 10, 2014, 43 year old Antonio Jones was found in the trunk of a burning car in East St. Louis, just a few miles from St. Louis, Missouri. He died from two gunshot wounds to the abdomen. In 2019, Marquis Reasonover was sentenced on federal charges of using a firearm to commit murder in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime and conspiracy to distribute cocaine and heroin. Federal prosecutors said the shooting stemmed from a fight over missing drugs. Reason over Harold Johnson and Randall Patton drove Antonio Jones to East St. Louis and set the car on fire with his body inside.

Mike Gibson (32:00)

I just believe that a lot of times it's done just to cover up the evidence.

Mike Ferguson (32:05)

Yeah, yeah. I don't think there's any doubt about that because why else set the car on fire?

Mike Gibson (32:10)

Yeah, the person's already dead.

Mike Ferguson (32:12)

Yes. On December 19, 2014, Terrell Beasley was in a vehicle with Dominic Irons when Irons shot at Don McGee, an off duty police officer. McGee returned fire and Beasley was killed during the shootout. Beasley's body was found several hours later in the burning vehicle. McGee was later fired from the force after being sentenced to two years in prison for giving a gun to a drug dealer.

Mike Gibson (32:41)

Some of these charges seem kind of off.

Mike Ferguson (32:44)

Yeah. And I don't know why a police officer would be giving a gun to a drug dealer. Now, it doesn't sound like, you know, he was charged with anything regarding the shooting. I mean, this guy did shoot at him and he returned fire. Unfortunately, it sounds like Terrell Beasley was killed when it was Dominic Irons who was doing the shooting. And you go back to this guy, you know, later being fired, okay, was he a dirty cop? Why was he giving a gun to a drug dealer? Did that have something to do with the shooting in the first place? I don't know. There just wasn't much in the research about it.

Mike Gibson (33:25)

But it makes you wonder.

Mike Ferguson (33:26)

It does, and I'm sure it makes people question. Finally, on February 15, 2015, Vincent Casello was found in a burning vehicle in St. Louis. He had been shot multiple times. His murder remains unsolved. Several sources also noted that in total, six men connected to the Ferguson protests have died in recent years. This includes Darren Seals, Deandre Joshua and and Basim Masri, who died of a fentanyl overdose in November 2018. Three others died of suicide. 23 year old Marshawn McCarroll, 24 year old Donye Jones and 27 year old Edward Crawford. Many believe that Donye Jones died under suspicious circumstances. On October 17, 2018, Jones was found hanging from a tree in the backyard of his home in Spanish Lake, Missouri, a sheet tied around his neck. His family has said that they don't believe he would be able to make the knots required to have tied the sheets. His mother, Melissa McInnes wrote in a now deleted Facebook post, per the Washington Post. They lynched my baby. I'm sick and losing my mind. But I had to let the world know what they did to my baby. She noted that her son was upbeat and did not appear depressed at the time of his death. She also told the Post Dispatch that he packed an overnight bag and left it on the patio, which indicated he planned on going somewhere. However, Sergeant Sean McGuire told the Post Dispatch that the family reported the suicide when they called 911. Jones body was on the ground when officers arrived and there were no signs of a struggle. Melissa McKinney's told KMOV she believed her family was being targeted and they had received death threats on social media. Suspicious vehicles also drove past her house and sped off when her husband or son approached. She didn't report these threats to the police. So far, the police have found no evidence of foul play in Donye Jones's death. So, yeah, I do want to go back a little bit. Right. We said that there have been six men connected to the Ferguson protests who've died in recent years. I'm sure there were a lot of men associated with the Ferguson protest.

Mike Gibson (35:55)

That was a large event.

Mike Ferguson (35:56)

It was. It was a really big event. You have one person who died of a fentanyl overdose. Three were thought to be suicide. One, which is very questionable. Suspicious, yes, especially from the standpoint of the family. I guess what I'm getting at is it would be hard to say that, you know, all six of these individuals were targeted. Now, if there was foul play in Donye Jones's death, okay, maybe there he was being targeted. We still don't know about Darren and DeAndre, but if they were being targeted for their roles in being activists or specifically their roles in the Ferguson protests, then the question is why and by who? Yes. Now I'm sure there are a lot of people who believe, okay, well, it has to be the police, right? The police weren't happy Maybe these people were speaking out very adamantly against the police. We know Darren was.

Mike Gibson (37:09)

He wasn't shy about it.

Mike Ferguson (37:10)

No, he wasn't shy about it. But I'm sure you have a lot of people who just believe that, you know, why would the police go after these individuals years after the Ferguson incident?

Mike Gibson (37:26)

Yeah. How does it benefit them?

Mike Ferguson (37:27)

And, you know, if it is a rogue cop, is it. It's hard to think that a whole police force would get together and say, here's what we're going to do.

Mike Gibson (37:37)

You'd have to think maybe it's a.

Mike Ferguson (37:38)

Smaller fraction or, yeah, maybe a fringe element, if. If that was even the case. And then I'm sure there are a lot of people listening, thinking, okay, St. Louis, Missouri area. There are a lot of homicides as there are in any big city.

Mike Gibson (37:57)

Sure, yeah.

Mike Ferguson (37:58)

So could these be suicides, a fentanyl overdose and two unconnected murders that really have nothing to do with what happened.

Mike Gibson (38:10)

In Ferguson, just some random events?

Mike Ferguson (38:13)

Well, I think it's. It's one of the big questions in this case. There are many questions, but that's one of the biggest. In September 2022, the Riverfront Times released an article about a 900 page, mostly redacted FBI report on Darren Seals activity before his death. The FBI had an open file on him which refers to Darren as a self described revolutionary who has espoused somewhat militant rhetoric and has access to weapons. So Darian was under some level of surveillance, but the extent of it is unclear because over 800 pages of the report were redacted.

Mike Gibson (38:56)

Wow, that's a lot of pages. You think about that on the visual, right?

Mike Ferguson (39:00)

Well, 900 pages is a lot, but 800 of the 900 to be redacted. You're missing quite a bit of the information.

Mike Gibson (39:09)

Yeah. What are you not wanting us to see?

Mike Ferguson (39:11)

The file does say that Darren was investigatively detained during a Traffic stop on June 8, 2016, just a few months before he was murdered. The local police pulled him over at the FBI's request. The specific police agency is redacted. The detention lasted about 20 minutes. Darrin was driving with a companion at the time. A search of his car turned up nothing. Law enforcement told him there were warrants for his arrest, but let him go. A later addition to the file states traffic warrants for subjects arrest remain active if additional car stops are deemed merited. It stated that the investigation into Darren would be reviewed by the field office's chief division council, at least semi.

Mike Gibson (40:03)

I wonder how big my file is at the FBI.

Mike Ferguson (40:06)

It's got to be multiple file cabinets, I would think. But how scary is it to think that the FBI has files on some of us, a lot of us. I don't know how many people.

Mike Gibson (40:19)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (40:19)

Now, why did they have a file on Darren Seals? I go back to that quote which was describing him and as a self described revolutionary who has espoused somewhat militant rhetoric and has access to weapons. Okay, well, a lot of us have access to weapons.

Mike Gibson (40:40)

Sure we do.

Mike Ferguson (40:42)

What is somewhat militant rhetoric? That's very vague. It is, in my opinion. So, again, I don't know exactly why the FBI opened a file on him. Was it just because he was an activist? I don't know.

Mike Gibson (41:00)

Makes you wonder, though.

Mike Ferguson (41:01)

Well, and then you have this traffic stop, and I did think it was strange that he had warrants out for his arrest. But they didn't arrest him. They were traffic warrants.

Mike Gibson (41:13)

But, yeah, they could have arrested him if they wanted. But it sounds like they had other intentions. They wanted to talk to him about something.

Mike Ferguson (41:21)

Well, yeah, because it's. You know, in the file it says that local police pulled him over at the FBI's request.

Mike Gibson (41:28)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (41:29)

So it wasn't because, you know, somebody ran through a stop sign. It wasn't because of a broken tail light. The FBI requested that they pull him over for some reason. Can you, Gibbs, start to understand why, you know, this case kind of fuels the conspiracy theories?

Mike Gibson (41:50)

Oh, for sure.

Mike Ferguson (41:51)

Because there were some strange things.

Mike Gibson (41:54)

You can, if you want to fall into that rabbit hole and say, I can align certain things and it makes sense to me why individuals feel the way they do about this case.

Mike Ferguson (42:05)

Yeah. I'm admitting that there are some strange things here. Now, at the end of the day, do we know what happened? No, I mean, do we know who's responsible for it? No, I have no idea. What I'm saying is there are some strange things. Is it hard for me to believe that the FBI, or really any police agency would make the decision that they're going to murder someone? Yeah, that's hard for me because that's not what I expect to happen. Is it easier for some other people to think that that could happen? It is, sure. Because they've had much different experiences with the police than you and I have.

Mike Gibson (42:52)

That is very accurate. And for me, I'm still thinking 900 pages. 800 were redacted.

Mike Ferguson (42:59)

What's in the 800?

Mike Gibson (43:00)

Yeah, it wasn't like there was 900 and 200 was.

Mike Ferguson (43:05)

Two pages were redacted.

Mike Gibson (43:07)

800 pages, that tells you that there was things in there they did not.

Mike Ferguson (43:11)

Want you to see. Yeah.

Mike Gibson (43:14)

What was it?

Mike Ferguson (43:15)

Well, I don't know. I'm sure it possibly could shed a lot of light, but I think the mere fact that, you know, it comes out that they have an open FBI file on this guy, that's going to fuel speculation. Yeah, all on its own, for sure. And then, you know, it comes out that the FBI wanted him pulled over for what reason? And then people, you know, might make the leap that. That then somehow became part of why he was later killed. The file also discussed Darren's death, saying, in part, the investigative plan will be to. And there's a word, redacted homicide of Seals, because it is anticipated that violent protests may be generated by his death, as conspiracy theories are already formed that Seals was killed by the police because of his Black Lives Matter affiliations. So I don't know what that word is or words were in that part that was redacted, but it's very obvious or apparent that they were already thinking along those lines, that people were going to throw out conspiracy theories, that there were going to be violent protests because it was going to be thought that Darren Seals was killed by the police or some agency because of his affiliations, because of his activism. But the murder of Darren Seals remains unsolved. I mean, Darren was a controversial person, and there were many people who opposed his outspoken views on certain issues. He was an activist in his community who. Who was trying to make a positive change, Although it seems like federal investigators were questioning his methods of bringing about that change. Let's go back to the many people opposed to his views. Well, not all of those people were in law enforcement. So could an individual that was part of that group have been responsible for his death?

Mike Gibson (45:26)

Could have been.

Mike Ferguson (45:27)

You got to leave that on the table. Right?

Mike Gibson (45:29)

I mean, look, he was a passionate guy.

Mike Ferguson (45:31)

Yeah. There's no doubt.

Mike Gibson (45:32)

And he picked his side and he stood firm and he let it fly.

Mike Ferguson (45:38)

I mean, he let you know he was not afraid to say certain things, some which were popular to a certain population, some which were not popular. And it didn't seem to split along race.

Mike Gibson (45:55)

It just seemed like he was willing to go in the ring with you or go to the mat, whatever the saying is. Right. He wasn't afraid of confrontation.

Mike Ferguson (46:02)

No, I don't believe he was. The question is, was he killed because of his views, or was there something else that was more along the lines of, I don't want to say a normal murder, because there's no normal murder.

Sam (46:21)

Right.

Mike Gibson (46:22)

Just unrelated to the activism, road rage.

Mike Ferguson (46:27)

Or you flip somebody off who cuts you off and the next thing you know, they're shooting you and they set your car on fire. In this case especially, you really have to kind of leave everything on the table, even the conspiracy theories and these rumors and conspiracies, you know, associated with the case. They've been there right from the beginning.

Mike Gibson (46:49)

Sure.

Mike Ferguson (46:49)

Authorities have not released much evidence to the public, most likely because it's still an ongoing investigation. What we do know is that it appeared to be a targeted attack. Someone, or maybe even multiple people had a motive to kill Darren. The problem is we don't know what the motive was. Right. We've kind of been going back and forth talking about it, talking about the possibilities.

Mike Gibson (47:18)

I find it interesting the police haven't released a lot of evidence, but I mean, if the FBI has 800 pages of redacted information, what makes anybody think that the police are going to roll out any additional information?

Mike Ferguson (47:32)

Well, and a lot of times the police don't anyway.

Mike Gibson (47:35)

True.

Mike Ferguson (47:36)

In an ongoing investigation. Now, if they had something that would quash some of the conspiracy theories, maybe they might release that.

Mike Gibson (47:45)

That's true, that's true.

Mike Ferguson (47:47)

But I do believe this is, you know, a very polarizing case, as are many, but this one especially, because I'm sure you have a lot of people in the camp who believe this happened, right? You, you have people who believe, well, I think it might be this, but, you know, as of right now, we don't know. To me, this is a case to follow and see ultimately if they can solve it. And like I said, it could turn out to be kind of a one off, maybe rage motivated murder or something along those lines. It could turn out to be someone who didn't like this guy because of his views, not involved in law enforcement. Yeah, it could be someone who was in law enforcement. Like I said, I'm not taking anything off the table.

Mike Gibson (48:41)

We just don't know.

Mike Ferguson (48:42)

We don't. But that is it. For our episode on Darren Seals. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

Mike Gibson (48:47)

Let's hear them.

Sam (48:48)

Hey, this is Lori from outside of KCMO again. You guys talk a lot about this, so I thought I would let you know. Now, this was in the 80s. Lady at the place I work, the gas station, got kidnapped and assaulted repeatedly. She escaped, but then we had to have a little class meeting type thing, thing. And they were like the cop told us, somebody tries to make you get in a car with them, do everything you can to keep from doing it, grab a hold of A pole, drop yourself, whatever. Do not get in the vehicle, because if you get in there, there's a much higher chance of you being murdered. And that's all I got. Keep your own time. Ticket. Bye.

Mike Ferguson (49:31)

All right, thanks for the call. Yeah, I. I've heard that, too. I think sometimes that's easier said than done, though.

Mike Gibson (49:38)

Yeah, I think so.

Mike Ferguson (49:39)

You know, I mean, if somebody's holding a gun on you, what do you.

Mike Gibson (49:43)

Do till you're in that position? You make whatever decision you feel like.

Mike Ferguson (49:48)

You need to make is the best at the time.

Mike Gibson (49:51)

Yeah, but I get it. Fight, fight, fight. If you can, you know.

Mike Ferguson (49:55)

Yeah. I think in a vacuum, if you can keep from being put in a vehicle, yes, you're better off. No doubt about it, man.

Sam (50:05)

You guys got me again. Here I am walking down the street, walking my dogs, laughing my butt off out loud because of Gibby, writing himself fan mail and putting Gibby in his home address in the return address portion of the envelope, making it very chance 10. And then muttering, oh, no, we'll have to fix that. Having written some fan mail, Forgivey. I was like, where could this be going? Because usually it's, you know, just a comment about fan mail for Gibby is just Mike being jealous. But really, didn't. That came out left field. Also, listening to the Zodiac episode number two, and you're saying how people think that Zodiac probably had a menial job but was intelligent and well regarded. And I think I agree with the menial job part, but the thing I've always thought about Zodiac is that it seems like a team, at least one other person, because the ridiculous ramblings about collecting souls and picking off kitties as they bounded down the school bus steps and things like this, all this seemed too stupid for the person who was clever enough to make those ciphers to say. I don't know why that's never been a theory, like by the FBI or San Francisco Pedia or anybody, but it's my theory, and I'm sticking by it, for what that's worth. So stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

Mike Ferguson (51:42)

I appreciate the call. Yeah. I don't know. I lean heavily on Morph, who knows a lot about the Zodiac.

Mike Gibson (51:50)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (51:51)

And it seems like all the different people I've talked to that have spent a lot of years looking into the Zodiac feel like it's one person. But that doesn't mean that it'll turn out to be. Maybe one day we'll know it's one of those cases. Remember when the Golden State Killer was identified and how big that was.

Mike Gibson (52:15)

Oh, my gosh. It was huge.

Mike Ferguson (52:16)

I think Zodiac will be big like that. I mean, it's a case that's been on people's radar for so many years. And, you know, if it's ever conclusively solved, it'll be a big day in true crime. There's no way around it. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime, all the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. Ticking.

Sam (52:48)

Sam.