David Grubbs

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved – Episode 459: David Grubbs

Release Date: April 6, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Case Location: Ashland, Oregon
Case Summary: The brutal, unsolved 2011 murder of 23-year-old David Grubbs

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (aka Gibby) explore the killing of David Grubbs, an Ashland, Oregon man who was ambushed and nearly decapitated by an unknown assailant while walking home from work along a popular bike path in November 2011. Over a decade later, the crime remains unsolved, despite considerable police manpower, community fear, and at least one person of interest. The episode discusses David’s life, details of the crime, investigative challenges, police leads, and the devastating aftermath for friends, family, and the community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was David Grubbs? (04:13–08:05)

• Background and Personality:
  • Born November 23, 1987, youngest child of Sherry Grubbs, with two older sisters
  • Remembered as exceptionally kind, friendly, gentle, and funny
  • Enjoyed music (played bass, participated in youth orchestra), video games, and was close with his best friend Garrison Ma
  • “David was the gentlest, funniest young man I’ve ever met in my life. He had great musical talent, and he was just so gentle.” – PJ Ma (07:25)
• Daily Life:
  • Worked at the local “Shopping Cart,” living with Garrison and his family, godfather to Garrison’s daughter

2. The Night of the Murder (09:23–13:34)

• Timeline:
  • November 19, 2011: After his shift, David walked home on the Central Ashland Bike Path, habitually used by families and joggers
  • Attacked from behind (near dusk, unlit area near Hunter Park and an elementary school)
  • Weapon: Large edged weapon (machete, sword, or big knife)
  • Found ~30 minutes later by passersby; his wallet and beer were untouched
  • Cause of death: Multiple sharp force injuries, near decapitation
• Immediate Response:
  • Rain threatened evidence, but scene was preserved with canopies (12:19)
  • No motive or personal conflict discovered

3. Community Impact & Fear (19:03–20:25)

• Immediate Shock:
  • “There was a lot of upset in the community, especially in the first week, because Ashland Police Department is not equipped to handle something like this.” – Garrison Ma (19:19)
  • Community forum (29:02): Chief admitted police couldn’t assure safety; people were scared to use the bike path
• Lasting Trauma:
  • Friends questioned their own safety; parents stopped letting kids play in the area

4. The Investigation: Obstacles & Leads (13:34–35:19)

• Uniqueness of the Crime:
  • Investigator: “Most homicide involves a person who commits the crime with some relationship to the victim. This might truly be random.” (14:45)
  • No similar cases found in the region; edged weapon never recovered
• Weapon Search:
  • Officers contacted and confiscated many heavy bladed weapons locally (17:12)
  • None connected to the murder after crime lab analysis
• Randomness Complicates the Case:
  • “If you can’t establish a motive, how much harder does it make it to try to find potential suspects?” (13:29)
  • With no clear motive, investigators struggled to narrow suspects
• Exploring the Video Game Angle:
  • David played Assassin’s Creed, a game with swordplay and decapitation scenes
  • Investigators seized his consoles—found nothing useful (25:31–28:51)
  • Game-related violence considered unlikely after review
• Major Searches and Tips:
  • December 2011: Police looked into David’s gaming contacts (limited by technology)
  • June 2012: FBI and crime lab consulted, but lacked leads (35:19)
  • November 2012: Searched a property with pond and barns based on a “major tip”—no results

5. Person of Interest: Christian De Laurentiis (35:19–47:42)

• Profile:
  • In 2012, De Laurentiis stabbed and dismembered roommate after a series of bank robberies
  • Violent criminal with history in the area, known to be using meth/heroin at the time
• Why Considered?
  • “He clearly is capable of very violent behavior. He was here. He murdered his roommate … he has to be considered a viable candidate for having done this.” – Deputy Chief Ty O'Meara (40:10)
• No Direct Evidence:
  • De Laurentiis won't talk; no DNA or other evidence links him to David’s murder (48:14)
  • Remains incarcerated for other crimes, police haven’t excluded or confirmed involvement

6. Enduring Grief and Community Effects (54:00–56:44)

• Family Perspective:
  • David’s mother, Sherry, entered “magical thinking,” unable to work due to grief (51:54)
  • Devastating ripple effects on friends, family, and even the wider community’s sense of safety
• Memorials:
  • Scholarship created in David’s name for young Ashland musicians

7. Current Status & Ongoing Investigation (49:21–58:16)

• Case Remains Open:
  • Two new detectives assigned in 2024; “not a cold case” per Chief O’Meara
  • (50:11) “There is usually something … that police use to help solve the case. At the very least, it helps point them in the right direction. [In this case] they just don’t really have a direction…” – Mike Ferguson
• Hope for Resolution:
  • $21,000 reward for tips
  • Police believe someone still knows something, and encourage anyone burdened with information to come forward

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Randomness of the Crime:

• “Maybe there is no motive other than somebody wanting to kill somebody. Yeah, that’s not a motive that helps you narrow down things.” – Mike Ferguson (13:57)

On Ashland’s Fear:

• “People were afraid. I was afraid. I feel personally that a lot of David's case was kind of swept under the rug to keep up appearances when the reality is bad things happen everywhere.” – Garrison Ma (19:19)

On Weapon Oddities:

• “Until this case came up, I was oblivious to how many people carry machetes and how many people carry swords… It turns out an awful lot of people carry swords around for one reason or another.” – Chief Taio Meara (16:37)

On Investigative Frustration:

• “We have 15 detectives working this case. It’s still possible that this is a total and complete random act… That’s extremely rare, but it is possible.” – Chief Terry Holderness (25:50)

On Lack of Closure for the Family:

• “When she first heard about Christian De Laurentiis, [David’s mom] wanted to drive over and ask him why he did it. But over the years, she's realized there's not going to be a rational, sane reason for why whoever did this did it.” (52:57)

On the Ripple Effect of Tragedy:

• “It’s hard to calculate how many people are affected by these types of murders… People's sense of safety…” – Mike Ferguson (54:33)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 04:13 – 08:05: David’s background, character, and musical life
• 09:23 – 13:34: Details of the murder and initial police response
• 16:37 – 17:12: Unusual prevalence of bladed weapons in Ashland
• 19:03 – 20:25: Community reaction and fear
• 25:31 – 28:51: Investigating the gaming angle
• 29:02: Community safety forum; surveillance efforts
• 35:19 – 47:42: Introduction and background of Christian De Laurentiis
• 49:21 – 50:32: New detectives, Chief won’t call it a cold case
• 51:54 – 56:44: Family trauma and community aftershocks
• 56:44 – 58:16: Hosts reflect on the case and the challenges to resolution

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Conclusion & Call for Tips

This episode illustrates the tragic randomness and enduring mystery of David Grubbs’ murder. Despite a decade of investigation, no clear suspect or motive has emerged—other than the possibility of a violent drifter (De Laurentiis) who remains officially only a person of interest. The hosts highlight the devastation, unanswered questions, and urge anyone with information to come forward. The episode closes with hope for eventual resolution and justice for David and his loved ones.

If you have information:

• Ashland Police: [phone]
• Anonymous tip line: [phone]
• Email: [e-mail]
• Tip Reward: $21,000

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[End of summary | Ad sections, intros/outros omitted.]

Transcript

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[Mike Gibson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 459 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good about you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Doing amazingly.

[Mike Gibson]

Excellent, eh?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, excellent, excellent, as Bill and Ted would say.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, speaking of Bill and Ted, that Keanu Reeves come a long way since. Since Bill and Ted's excellent adventure.

[Mike Gibson]

What about the other guy?

[Mike Ferguson]

I never heard of him. Never heard from him, I don't think. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had penny a penny. Caress. Sc.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, Caress.

[Mike Ferguson]

Kira Gadomski.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on?

[Mike Ferguson]

Kira, Jacqueline.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Jack, Glenn.

[Mike Ferguson]

Matt Hindershot.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on?

[Mike Ferguson]

Hendershot, Bill Knox.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, keep knocking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Knocks Todd Bird.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, Todd?

[Mike Ferguson]

Kirsten Vander. Yacht or jat? I'm not sure. I've said it a bunch of different ways.

[Mike Gibson]

Say hi, Kirsten.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Annelise Laranga.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Annelise.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Lucia Figueras jumped out at our highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, thanks, Lucia.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. We appreciate the new support you. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Molly Hildebrandt.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I grew up with some Hildebrands. Thank you.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. We appreciate the long term support as well. We have an episode out, a new one on True Crime all the Time, where we're talking about the Clear Lake murders. It's a fascinating case. Four young people were gunned down inside a home in Clear Lake, Houston. It took three years for police to solve the crime, and it really was a Crime Stoppers tip that led to the identification of a very surprising suspect.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, you don't hear a lot about Crime Stoppers, you know, actually solving a case. So it's kind of cool to hear that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we always put it out here on Unsolved. But how many cases are actually solved by Crime Stoppers? I'm thinking the percentage is probably not that high. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime? All the Time Unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the murder of David Grubbs. In November 2011, 23 year old David Grubbs was murdered along a popular bike path in Ashland, Oregon, while heading home from work. Over 10 years later, and despite police naming a person of interest, his murder remains unsolved. David. Michael Grubbs was born on November 23, 1987. He was killed just four days before his 24th birthday. And man, there are a lot of things that make you feel old. Some of them happy, some of them not so happy. You think about Michael. He was born in 1987, Gibbs. And he was almost 24 when he was murdered in 2011.

[Mike Gibson]

Young, young.

[Mike Ferguson]

Also born well after us. Well, that comes to the feeling old part of things.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. I was already out of high school in 87.

[Mike Ferguson]

David was the youngest child of Sherry Grubbs. He has two older sisters. He grew up in Ashland, Oregon. David was described as a mild mannered young man. Sherry told the Rogue Valley Times that David was exceptionally kind and had a good sense of humor. He disliked conflict and he didn't care a lot about material things. He loved his family, friends, music, and video games.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like he had his head on, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Again, some people Are okay with conflict. Some people thrive, you know, with conflict. And some people do not like it at all. I have a daughter who just absolutely does not like any type of conflict whatsoever.

[Mike Gibson]

But on the re other side of that, you have one that is perfectly fine with some conflict.

[Mike Ferguson]

She will battle you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

The youngest one. So she may get that from me, because I am absolutely fine with a little conflict.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I don't. You're not the type that would step away from a debate.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nope. No, I actually enjoy it. But then you talk about material things, right? Most kids. I say most. Most people are into material things.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a material world.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, Madonna.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm a material girl.

[Mike Gibson]

That you got. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But like you said. Right. It seemed like his head was really in the right space. You know, family, friends. Now we'll throw some music and video games in there. I like video games. I like music.

[Mike Gibson]

Nothing wrong with listening to some good music.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, he played bass in his high school orchestra, and he participated in the Southern Oregon Youth Symphony. David was close friends with Garrison Ma, who moved to Ashland the summer before his freshman year of high school. In the early 2000s, they bonded over video games and music. Garrison's mother, PJ Ma, recalled meeting David for the first time when he was a teenager. She said David wasn't shy at all. He immediately shook her hand and introduced himself. He became like a second son to her. PJ said about him, david was the gentlest, funniest man, Young man I've ever met in my life. He had great musical talent, and he was just so gentle. And that word gentle is being used a lot. Right. And maybe that kind of flows well with the dislikes, conflict. You know, he's a. He's a gentle person. He might be a nurturer. He's not a fighter, make love, not

[Mike Gibson]

work type of guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

David and Garrison's friendship continued after high school. They both worked at the local shopping cart in Ashland, and Ma was a dairy manager. David worked in freight, stocking shelves and helping customers. He was well liked by his co workers. According to Garrison, he became a staple there. He was always cracking jokes. He was just one of the funniest guys I've ever known. I still remember what his laugh sounds like today.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man, you love working with the funny guys.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because, let's face it, work sucks most of the time. And you know, if you got somebody there who's funny that you like, it can make the days less sucky and go by a little quicker.

[Mike Gibson]

That's so True.

[Mike Ferguson]

At the time of his death, David was living with Garrison and his now ex wife. David became the godfather to Garrison's daughter who is now a teenager. So I think it does tell you kind of the bond that these two guys had.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty close.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ashland police Chief Taio Mira told the Rogue Valley Times. Everybody liked it. His life, as far as we can tell, was going to work, getting done, grabbing a tall boy of whatever beer he had with him and probably going home to smoke weed, have a beer and play video games.

[Mike Gibson]

To a lot of people, that's a dream right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hey, that's. That's not a bad life for some. On November 19, 2011, David went to work at the shopping cart. Around 5:35pm he was walking home along the central Ashland bike path, a popular biking trail. David had walked this trail countless times. Parents often bring their children to play in this area. David was attacked as he was walking on a section of the path that passes Hunter park near a local elementary school. This section of the path has no street lights and it was dusk when David was heading home. David was attacked from behind with a machete, sword or large knife. He died about 30 minutes before he was found.

[Mike Gibson]

It's kind of brutal way to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it is. And you know, we talk about it a lot, right? Keep your head on a swivel now. For some, that can be tough. You know, if you're in your phone, if you've got headphones on or something like that, you might not hear somebody, you know, walking up behind you. But I have a bad habit. Maybe it's not a bad habit, but I do have a habit of, you know, if I'm walking alone, I'm scanning, I'm definitely looking behind me every now and then just to see what's back there.

[Mike Gibson]

Sometimes I've seen you when you're walking, you're getting into, you know, either you're singing some of your country music or you're doing a little rap thing and you're just into it. And I don't know if you're always really aware that I'm just right there behind you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, believe me, I know where you are at all times. The tracker tells me there's an alert. If you get, you know, within X feet of me, except for the nights where we record, then I have to suspend it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes, you do.

[Mike Ferguson]

911 received a person down call. The report came from a woman riding her bike down the path who was stopped by a man who found David lying in the bike path. They initially thought he was Unconscious. But upon further inspection, they saw deep wounds around his head and neck.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, to be hit with a machete or large knife or sword. Yeah. It's going to look kind of shocking when you look at that body laying down.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think very shocking. Right. For two people who are just out walking or biking, thinking they're getting some exercise, maybe enjoying nature, to come upon this young man who has been killed in a very horrific way.

[Mike Gibson]

Last thing you thought you'd see that night.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's going to be a tough night. Yeah, no doubt about it. The woman reported that she saw a man leaving the area, but she didn't get a real good look at him. Chief Ty Omera, then a responding officer was one of the first officers at the scene. It was raining that night and he purchased pop up canopies to protect the crime scene. Omira took David's phone to the high tech crimes task force that same night. Smart thinking on his part because, you know, the rain is going to wash away potentially some valuable evidence.

[Mike Gibson]

That's very true.

[Mike Ferguson]

So let's get some canopies up. Let's keep the crime scene from essentially washing away. David suffered multiple sharp force injuries to the head and neck, causing near decapitation. Investigators determined robbery wasn't the motive because David's wallet and the beer that he bought when he got off work were still with him. And really, from the very beginning, investigators struggled to find a motive. And you and I talk about motive so very often because it's a big component. Right. To cases. If you can't establish a motive, how much harder does it make it to try to find potential suspects?

[Mike Gibson]

Extremely hard.

[Mike Ferguson]

To me, it's like one of the first building blocks.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Of a case. Who would have a reason to do this? Now, there's always the possibility that this is just a random attack, but we know the statistics are that most people are killed by people they know, so.

[Mike Gibson]

But for police, a random attack is the worst outcome. Right. Because it's probably not going to be solved.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, maybe there is no motive other than somebody wanting to kill somebody. Yeah, that's not a motive. That helps you narrow down things.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it was said that David wasn't involved in any relationship conflicts. He didn't have any problems with anyone at work or in his personal life. And he wasn't involved in the drug underworld, Right? Yeah. They said he, you know, he like to drink a tall boy and smoke some weed at home. But it sounds like, you know, he's not dealing or he's not, you know, involved in something that would probably get him killed over drugs.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, to me, it just sounded like, you know, he had a good time at work. He'd grab his beer, smoke a joint or two or whatever, and then sit there and play video games and just mellow out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Former Police Chief Terry Holderness told the registered guard at the time. Most homicide involves a person who commits the crime with some relationship to the victim. This might truly be random, which is very unusual for this type of crime. It makes it more likely to put other community members at risk. And we talked about the first part. I think that last part there is important to talk about as well. When you have somebody who has a motive to kill a specific individual, well, then I think it's very likely that they may not go on to ever kill anybody else. But when you have someone who is randomly selecting victims, I think there's a very likely or very high chance that they are going to kill again.

[Mike Gibson]

I agree with you on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

This type of attack is so rare that investigators were unable to find an expert to assist in the case. They reached out to police departments along the west coast looking for similar cases, but didn't find any in the days following the murder. And, you know, let's be honest, I don't know how many people are attacked out in the open, walking down a bike path with a machete or a sword.

[Mike Gibson]

It's pretty rare, I would think.

[Mike Ferguson]

I would think on the list of crimes, it's not going to be up there at the top. The autopsy determined David was killed with an edged weapon that has never been recovered. So an official determination can't be made regarding the murder weapon. So edged weapon is pretty broad.

[Mike Gibson]

It is, because they don't really know. Right. They just know that it was either a machete, a sword, or a very large knife.

[Mike Ferguson]

Chief Taio Meara told Dateline in 2022, until this case came up, I was oblivious to how many people carry machetes and how many people carry swords. We were getting tips left and right and up and down from every angle. It turns out an awful lot of people carry swords around for one reason or another.

[Mike Gibson]

That amazes me.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does, too. Maybe that's an Oregon thing. I don't know. Because here in Ohio, I've never seen anybody carry a sword.

[Mike Gibson]

I have not seen that either.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or a machete, like down the street. If I saw that, I'm crossing the

[Mike Gibson]

street, I mean, I might see a landscaper every now and then have a machete on them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Somebody doing some work. That would require A big hacking tool. But a sword? I mean, what are we talking about, like a katana? Like a Japanese sword?

[Mike Gibson]

Or maybe one of those really big ones where they drag. They have to drag it behind them because it's so heavy, you know?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you talking about like from the medieval days or something? I don't, I don't know. Now, if you came from like a Renaissance fair, okay, maybe that's part of the get up or something like that. And we do have a Renaissance fair that's about, I don't know, 30 miles or so from where we're sitting right now.

[Mike Gibson]

You know exactly where it's at because you dress up and go every year. Participate.

[Mike Ferguson]

Never been. Never been. I've lived here for 50 years and I've never been. But again, never seen anyone just walking down the street or, you know, carrying a machete or a sword out in the open.

[Mike Gibson]

If we did, we would take the long way around.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's no doubt. Officers contacted many people carrying heavy bladed weapons and confiscated a lot of weapons. But none of these leads panned out. Okay. I don't know literally who all these people are carrying these swords and machetes. Now, they say heavy bladed weapons, but would you consider your KA Bar a heavy bladed weapon?

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a fairly large knife, but it's nothing compared to a machete or a sword.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not. I, I don't. I don't know what to think about all. All these individuals that have, you know, these large knives and swords and machetes that obviously there's a database of people.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm with you, man. I was kind of blown away by that, to be honest with you. The Ashland community was extremely fearful because the murder occurred on a popular bike path in a safe area. We even said it right. A lot of people took their kids out there to play. Well, that's going to shut down that real quickly for sure. My other thought is, okay, probably a lot less people using the bike path after this murder occurred. David's friend Garrison Ma recalled the dateline. There was a lot of upset in the community, especially in the first week, because Ashland police department is not equipped to handle something like this. There was no motive and there was no rhyme or reason. So people were afraid. I was afraid. I feel personally that a lot of David's case was kind of swept under the rug to keep up appearances when the reality is bad things happen everywhere. Now, I don't know what he means by that. You know, a lot of his case was swept under the rug. I Do think police, a lot of times they kind of walk a fine line. You want to get the word out because you want to solve the case. You also don't want, like mass panic in the street.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. This is something new to them. You know, they're dealing with this Highlander style murder.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the other thing is, let's face it, not every police department is equipped to handle these kinds of murders. They may have never seen anything like this or even close to this. I don't know. I don't know how big Ashland is. But, you know, smaller areas have smaller police forces, obviously. And also the types of crimes that they've seen or have a lot of experience with. Yeah. Is not as varied as a much larger police department would be. You know, we're hearing a lot about GLP1 medications lately. They're everywhere. And there are a lot of potential benefits of GLP1s on your overall health journey. In addition to weight loss. Not only can patients lose weight, but they can also expect to have better lab numbers, more energy, new levels of confidence, and more benefits that go beyond the scale. But a lot of people do not want to take shots. And that's where Roe comes in. Ro has developed the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss. The robotic membership includes access to FDA approved GLP1s, unlimited provider messaging, side effect management, and more, all for just $45 for your first month and $145 a month thereafter. The RO membership fee excludes the cost of GLP1 medication. And after your first online visit, if you're eligible for treatment, you can expect to start your medication in less than a week if paying cash, or about two weeks if using insurance. And if I needed this product, this is exactly what I would use. I would much rather take a daily pill than a shot. Go to RO CO Unsolved to see if you're eligible for the new GLP1 pill on ROE. That's RO CO unsolved. To get started on RO, go to RO CO Safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. You know, these days I'm all about quality over quantity, and that's especially true in my closet. You know, if it's not well made and versatile, it's. It's just not worth it to me. And that's honestly why I love Quint. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk, and organic cotton poplin and Quint works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. Quint's clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers. Real people wearing these pieces every day and actually loving them. And I am one of those people. I buy a lot from quints. Some days my whole wardrobe is nothing but quints and they have a lot more than clothes. I just received one of those hang up toiletry kits. I got it from Quince and it's amazing. So stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want. You don't need a closet full of options. You need pieces that work right now. Go to quince.com truecrime for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.com truecrime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com truecrime Garrison also couldn't think of a potential motive. He said, to this day, I've never met anyone like David who just had a natural capacity to get along with everybody. He didn't have an enemy in the world. And again, we're hearing all these people say glowing things about David. It does kind of make you wonder, is this just a random murder? Because who would want to kill this guy? Nobody can come up with a single name.

[Mike Gibson]

It really seems random at this point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Back in 2011, David's friend and coworker August Haddock told the registered guard that he and David often walked home together on the same bike path. But on the night of the murder, he was working three hours later than David, so he walked home alone. When he drove by with a friend later that night, he saw police lights in the darkness, but he didn't know what happened until the next day, haddock said. It's hard to imagine it could just have easily been me. And that's absolutely true. And a lot of people have that feeling. Yeah, especially right after a murder occurs if they frequent that same area. In this case, we're talking about a bike path that they both probably walked on a lot, sometimes together, sometimes alone. In early December, it was reported that investigators were looking for potential leads in David's gaming activity. So David played the game Assassin's Creed, which includes scenes of sword fighting and a decapitation scene. And I know you don't play Video games?

[Mike Gibson]

I don't.

[Mike Ferguson]

But Assassin's Creed is a very popular game. I've played a couple of the versions. They probably have like 10 different versions since they made the first one.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's one. They come out with like one every once. Every one or two years they come out with a new one. Seems like.

[Mike Gibson]

Remember they made a movie about it with.

[Mike Ferguson]

They did.

[Mike Gibson]

What's his name? Michael. I don't remember his last.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, Michael. What's his name?

[Mike Gibson]

Fassbender.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, was he in it? Yeah. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But yeah, it's a good game. Pretty popular. So police did seize David's gaming consoles, but there was little chance they could track down people he played with because game consoles don't store as much information as computers. Now, we are talking about 2011, right? That statement still holds true today, but they do track quite a bit. They're more powerful than they were in 2011, but still not near as powerful as computers. Police Chief Terry Holderness admitted, per the registered guard. I don't feel good about the position we're in. We're well into the second week. We haven't identified a viable suspect yet. That's not a promising place to be. We have 15 detectives working this case. It's still possible that this is a total and complete random act that had nothing to do with the victim except time and place. That's extremely rare, but it is possible.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, time and place, you know, the suspect picked a good time and place. He knew that it was. I'm assuming he knew it was going to be dark and isolated and that

[Mike Ferguson]

stretch didn't have lighting. Yeah, Yeah. I. I doubt it was chosen at random. Could have been, but I doubt it. Probably. Maybe some. If it did happen that way, some pre planning involved.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, because I'm thinking if it was lit up, somebody might have seen like some individual doing the sword swing before you come down on your victim.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, so let's go back to the gaming angle and I get kind of why they're looking at it. Okay. Is there sword play in this game? I guess so. I don't remember back then, but what's the thought? That he had a beef with somebody online that obviously was probably local and this person decided to kill him in the same fashion that people were killed in the game?

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe. Maybe he beat this guy really bad in the game. You know, and I know that, and you're no more than I would because I don't play. But I've heard that, you know, you talk crap While you play, Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, nowadays, yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure. I think there was communication in 2011, but yeah, I know there was definitely. Today there is a lot of people with headsets. There's a lot of, you know, what talk going on in different types of games.

[Mike Gibson]

So maybe somebody got upset, like you're going to talk to me that way. Or maybe he beat somebody that never lost before.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, but here's the thing. The majority of the time when you're playing online, you don't know who these people are you're talking to.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't know where they are, they don't know where you are.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So now it'd be different if this was somebody that he played with a lot. Maybe somebody was local, but you would think they would have been able to figure out that angle.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

In late November, 500 people came to a community forum where Chief Holderness said he could not assure people they were safe. And let's face it, nobody wants to hear that. But it is true. There is a killer out there somewhere. So they cannot assure everyone's safety.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, hey, look, we got a sword swinging killer out there and we don't know where he's coming from.

[Mike Ferguson]

A few days later, police announced they wanted to speak to an unidentified jogger and a woman walking her dog on the bike path. Shortly before the murder, they were captured on surveillance from a nearby storage facility. Which is interesting that they captured those people but didn't, you know, capture the, the murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

So obviously they saw them at a different part or on a different part of the, the bike path. Chief Holderness also said it was looking less likely that violent video games had anything to do with the murder. And I, I wasn't really buying that anyway, but I get it. A lot of people don't like violent video games. For years people have thought violent video games, you know, lead to violence. And maybe in some people that is true.

[Mike Gibson]

I remember there was a big push at one time in the states with Congress, I believe, trying to outlaw them or have them rated at a certain.

[Mike Ferguson]

They are rated now. Yeah, they did do that. I mean, they're rated M for mature or, you know, I don't know what the rating system is. I don't pay attention to it because I'm 52 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

Get what you want.

[Mike Ferguson]

I can play whatever I want. By January 2012, most of the physical evidence was returned from crime lab analysis. Some evidence allowed police to eliminate certain people as suspects, but none of it pointed to a Specific person. And unfortunately, I think that happens a lot. Right. Evidence is great for a lot of different reasons. In this case, it helped eliminate people, but it didn't point to anyone. The Oregon State Police crime lab's tests of swords, knives and machetes collected as possible murder weapons all came back negative. The lab tested clothing belonging to people stopped on the bike path on the night of the murder. Those tests were negative as well. So again, they're rounding up a lot of swords and machetes that apparently this part of Oregon is a hotbed for.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Knife and sword and machete carrying.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey Bob, we got another 12 machetes and eight swords we got to send out to the Lab tonight.

[Mike Ferguson]

In June 2012, Oregon officials gave a presentation on the case at an FBI training facility in Quantico. Chief Taio Mera later told people that when the former lead detective took the case to the bau, she was essentially told, we don't really have anything for you due to the lack of leads. And you know, the, the FBI has a lot of resources at their disposal. They do way more than any police department would have. But they're still constrained by the evidence. Right. If there's nothing pointing anywhere, they're probably not going to have any more luck than anybody else. And I think that's what happened here.

[Mike Gibson]

There's not much more they can do.

[Mike Ferguson]

On November 15, 2012, police divers searched upon in the nearby city of Tallinn acting on what they called a major tip. While six divers searched the irrigation pond in the middle of a mule pasture, additional officers with dogs and metal detectors searched fields, old Barnes shed and a home on the 18 acre property. An FBI serial killer specialist was also present for the search.

[Mike Gibson]

Interesting.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I would love to have 18 acres. I've always wanted a bunch of land. 18 acres is quite a bit with

[Mike Gibson]

a barn and a pond.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure, I'll take all that stuff. You just wonder what the major tip was that led them to this very specific location.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, obviously it's a potential location to dispose of a large knife, machete or a source.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's true. You got a pond. You also have 18 acres. Yeah, and I think the fact that they're using metal detectors tells you they are searching for that. Police also searched a vehicle and apartment unit in a Southern Oregon university student housing complex located along the bike path where David was attacked, about a 10 minute walk from the crime scene.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I think that's a good idea. I mean, probably have a lot of gamers there. Maybe one of them had A big knife, sword or machete.

[Mike Ferguson]

However, Chief Holderness said at the time, as quoted by the Albany Democrat Herald, we have no reason to anticipate making an arrest in the near future. We have quite a bit of information to process. So. You know, the one thing about the chief, he does sound, you know, he's being pretty truthful.

[Mike Gibson]

He is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, he may not be saying what everybody wants to hear. Leonard Parrish, the owner of the Talent property, told the Ashland Daily Tidings that he didn't know what was going on with the search. The newspaper reported that a vehicle registered to a woman living at the Ashland apartment was at one time registered at the Talent address. So that's kind of interesting because there's a connection right between this 18 acre piece of property and this apartment that's like 10 minutes from the crime scene.

[Mike Gibson]

You're gonna have to look at every lead.

[Mike Ferguson]

The problem is it just seems like nothing came from this one. Yeah, because there has not been any further reporting on it that I could find. You know, since that time.

[Mike Gibson]

You get leads like that, they're just dead end.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they just don't pan out. On January 14, 2015, the Ashland Police named 32 year old Christian De Laurentiis as a person of interest in David's case. In 2012, De Laurentiis admitted to stabbing and dismembering his roommate, 43 year old Philip Lindemuth, after a string of bank robberies in Oregon early that year. Investigators believed the two men had known each other for at least five months. They were living together in Aloha, Oregon in a home owned by Lindemith. Lindemith was reported on May 16, 2012 by a concerned citizen. James Early Christian De Laurentiis stepfather, received a concerning report from De Laurentiis cousin who said that De Laurentiis had confessed to cutting up Lindemas body and putting it in the freezer. Okay, yeah, I mean we've got a pretty nasty crime here. There's stabbing, there's dismemberment. You could see why police would want to take a look at this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

He's not afraid to kill, he's not afraid to cut.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Authorities believe that Lindemith died on May 4, 2012. Neighbors recalled hearing a fight around that time. Per KGW, detectives began watching De Laurentiis. One detective followed him when he drove away in Lindemas car. On May 17, a deputy made a traffic stop and arrested De Laurentiis for driving with a suspended license. He was questioned and booked on the accusation of murder. On May 18, 2012, deputies obtained a search warrant and found Philip Lindemas dismembered body in the garage freezer. After his arrest, De Laurentiis initially claimed Lindemith was alive and visiting friends in Kelso, Washington.

[Mike Gibson]

No, he's alive man. He's. He's visiting a friend. Is that the freezer that's in our. Did you bring the freezer? He didn't open that. Did you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Meanwhile, they've already got his body out of the freezer. And he soon changed his story and admitted he dismembered the body and. But it was only after Lindemuth died of suicide. Oh, he then admitted to stabbing Lindemuth in self defense during an argument about their involvement in the bank robberies.

[Mike Gibson]

One of those. I'll change my story multiple times here till it fits just right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and it also is like okay, with every change in the story, there's just a little bit more involvement. Yeah, but not complete. Right. First of all. Well, yeah, he's not even dead. He's visiting friends. Well, he is dead and I did dismember the body, but it was after he took his own life. And then I did stab him, but it was in self defense. And then I dismembered his body. On September 26, 2014, De Laurentiis pleaded guilty to aggravated murder, allowing him to avoid the death penalty. And then on Nov. 17, he pleaded guilty to seven bank robberies in western Oregon from January to April 2012. The first five robberies involved demand notes with representations that De Laurentiis was armed. But none of the tellers ever saw a weapon. Seven bank robberies is. Is quite a hole in like what, four month period of time?

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty brazen.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's like those guys from Point Break.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In one robbery he was armed with a purported bomb which turned out to be a Hoax device. In another, he was armed with a handgun that he waved at the bank tellers. So obviously, I mean, this guy was into, you know, quite a bit of criminal activity.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he wasn't a outstanding citizen.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, he's a bank robber. He also killed this guy, Philip Lindemuth. So, you know, let's go back to that January 2015 press conference. There were several reasons Ashland authorities considered Christian De Laurentiis a person of interest in David's murder. De Laurentiis was in Southern Oregon at the time of David's murder and. And was addicted to either meth or heroin at the time. And then he went to the Portland area shortly after the murder. Deputy chief Ty O' Meara said, per Kobi 5. Christian De Laurentiis is a man that used to live in Ashland. Some time ago, he moved to Washington County, Oregon, and was since charged with and convicted of murdering his roommate in Aloha in Washington County. Omir added, he clearly is capable of very violent behavior. He was here. He murdered his roommate in Aloha, dismembered the body. He has to be considered a viable candidate for having done this. I get it. He would have to be considered, especially when they got nobody else. Right. They have to at least look at him. And until it can be proven that he didn't do it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Omir said he hoped investigators jobs might become easier after De Laurentiis pleaded guilty. Investigators stopped short of calling him a suspect, but they would continue to look into him. On March 16, 2015, De Laurentiis was sentenced to 25 years in federal prison for the bank robberies to be served concurrently with his sentence yet to be imposed in Oregon. And then on April 9th of that year, he was sentenced to life in prison for aggravated murder and 16 months for abuse of a corpse.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know where he's going to be for the rest of his life?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you should be right when you commit a heinous crime like that. Prosecutors presented their evidence and how the crime unfolded. Philip Lindemith took in De Laurentiis. In early 2012, De Laurentiis was addicted to heroin and robbed banks to fund his addiction.

[Mike Gibson]

That's interesting because we did another TCAT episode this week where the individuals also had an addiction to heroin and had to find a way to fund that

[Mike Ferguson]

addiction, because I think it can be quite costly. You know, in that one, Gibbs, we were talking about someone having to shoot heroin every 15 to 20 minutes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

De Laurentiis then enlisted Lindemouth in some of his Robberies. Lindemith was the getaway driver in some of them, but he eventually got cold feet and threatened to go to the police. One night in May 2012, de la Renta stabbed Lindemith repeatedly with a bowie knife, piercing his heart and lungs.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know, what you don't do is threaten another criminal that you did criminal activities with of going to the police and think that you're gonna be okay. And a bowie knife is a pretty good sized knife.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I mean, it's. It's a big knife. Now, is it quite a machete? No, I wouldn't call it that. But it is a very large knife.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You said that you don't tell somebody you're going to rat them out. I think probably doubly. So when you've taken that person in and they're living under the same roof as you, they have pretty easy access to get to you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You need to watch what you say.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. They don't have to go through a locked door or anything like that. De Laurentiis used saws, knives, and other items to dismember the body. Neighbors heard power tools late at night in May 2012 and suspected someone was doing some home renovation.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you certainly wasn't going to suspect that somebody was in there dicing up a body.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. You know, we talk about hearing gunshots quite a bit in different episodes. Okay. You could say, well, somebody's out target shooting. Maybe you could make that argument. I think, even easier to make the argument when you're talking about the sound of power tools, that somebody is using the power tools for what they're intended to be used for. Not that they're trying to dismember a body. I don't know that anybody's mind goes to that straight away. Prosecutor said De Laurentiis planned to flush Lindemas body down the toilet piece by piece. When he finished dismembering the body, De Laurentiis abandoned his plan to flush the remains, and he put the dismembered body in the freezer. And there have been other cases of people dismembering bodies and flushing those bodies piece by piece down the drain.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In some of those cases, that's exactly how they were caught, because at a certain point, there's a blockage. And I forget there was a famous serial killer who was caught that way. I. I can't remember who it was. We. I think we did the case, but I think they had to call somebody out to fix something. You know, they open up these pipes and There's. Yeah, body pieces.

[Mike Gibson]

Plumber opens it up, thinks he's gonna find maybe some, you know, what you

[Mike Ferguson]

would normally find in toilet pipes. Yeah, you don't have to say it. I get what you're saying, but body pieces is not what you are thinking. But he continued living in the house for weeks. He eventually called his cousin in New York and confessed. The cousin relayed the confession to relatives in Oregon. And De Laurentiis stepfather called the police.

[Mike Gibson]

At least some people have a conscience.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he must have, or he just felt like he needed to talk to somebody. I'm not sure what it is. I just don't understand. If you've done this heinous act and maybe it is the conscience. Right. That kind of forces you into it, why would you tell anybody? And why would you think that whoever you tell is not going to immediately call the police or somebody else that's going to call the police?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think when you do something like that, you either got to make that call directly to the police yourself and hope that you and your attorney can get you the best deal possible, or you keep your mouth quiet and live with what you did for the rest of your life.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, we're not advocating for that, obviously. But if you're just thinking common sense wise from the angle of a. A murderer, why are you telling everybody? Or why are you telling people about it?

[Mike Gibson]

And honestly, it's a thing to do to somebody to put that onto somebody else. Like, hey, I got to get this off my chest. I'm going to dump it on you. Please don't tell anybody, but I got to tell you this thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's a great point. Right, so you're living with it now you've told somebody else that has to try to live with it. Yeah, that is kind of a BS thing to do. I never thought about it that way. Maybe you really are in Mensa.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know what got me thinking about that is that one time that you told me what you did at band camp and I was like, dude, I don't want to hear this. But now I've heard it and I can hear it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, sometimes you hear things and you can't unhear them. Over the years, De Laurentiis has refused to discuss the case. According to Chief Omira in 2022. Chief Omira told Dateline that they're unable to move forward with De Laurentiis as a suspect because he just won't talk to them. They don't have any direct evidence of his involvement in. It's really only circumstantial evidence. According to Rogue Valley Times, David's murder is one of Ashland's most enduring unsolved homicides. And I can imagine that. I don't know how big, you know, this town is. I didn't look it up. But, you know, it did say they had 15 detectives working on it. Yeah, if those were all from Ashland, then, I mean, how small can it really be? They got 15 detectives. That seems like a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

Or maybe some type of joint effort involved.

[Mike Ferguson]

It didn't say for sure, but either way, I mean, where it happened, how it happened, that's just going to be something that a community is not going to forget. Despite extensive efforts and assistance from FBI specialists, there just hasn't been any resolution. The lack of DNA evidence has not helped either. And obviously, if they had DNA evidence, they could try to tie that back to De Laurentiis. But, you know, without it, if he's not going to talk to them, I don't know what they can do.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he's not obligated to say a word.

[Mike Ferguson]

Back in February 2024, Ashland Police announced two new detectives had been assigned to the investigation, which remains open and active. Chief o' Meara has said that he will not call the murder of David Grubbs a cold case. The Rogue Valley Times spoke to the chief in December 2025. The chief said there have been recent potential developments in the case, and the department reviewed information it had recently received. He also called the nature of the case random. He said with most homicides, there is an obvious threat that leads to suspects, but there just is not one in David's case. And you know that term obvious thread? Yeah, it's a good term, actually. You could put a lot of things under that umbrella.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Motive, connections. There is usually something like that that police use to help solve the case. At the very least, it helps point them in the right direction. Yeah, I feel like in this one, they just don't really have a direction to even start down. Never have.

[Mike Gibson]

And that's got to be tough. Tough on them, tough on the community, and tough on the family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Very tough on the family. Omira told Rogue Valley Times that he's confident someone knows something. Forget about De Laurentiis, forget about the person that actually did this. Somebody out there is carrying this around. That's got to be a really heavy burden to carry around, and we're here to relieve you of that burden.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, there's a potential of somebody knowing something. Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, undoubtedly the killer knows something.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, does he want to be relieved of that burden to the point where it puts him in prison for the rest of his life. That's a tough sell. Now, if he told somebody else and they've been living with that, the weight of that on their shoulders, I think it's more likely that they could come forward at some point.

[Mike Gibson]

But this could have just been so isolated and so random, so random that the only person that knows is the person that actually did it. And they are not going to say a word.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they had no connection to David. They had no beef with him. There's nothing that really ties them to David. That is a tough case to solve if that's what's what we really have here.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's almost impossible.

[Mike Ferguson]

Rogue Valley Times also spoke to David's mother, Sherry. She recalled that she was in shock. The first year after her son died, she experienced magical thinking where she found herself believing it didn't really happen. She couldn't go back to her nursing work because patients wanted to express their sympathy, which forced her to relive the trauma. She also had trouble keeping track of and remembering things.

[Mike Gibson]

You know what I wanted to say. I get it. I don't get it because I didn't live through it, but I know what she's trying to say. Why would you ever want to believe something like that is true and never happened? And you're going to have people that care about you and they're going to say things like, you know, I'm so sorry. And she's right. That's going to re. You know, make you relive at every time someone says that. And sure, I'm sure she wants to be nice and say thank you, but instead it just breaks her down. And it can't be easy.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And those people are. Well meaning. They're not doing that to hurt anybody. Sherry recalled that when she first heard about Christian De Laurentiis, she wanted to drive over and ask him why he did it. But over the years, she's realized there's not going to be a rational, sane reason for why whoever did this did it. It wasn't a robbery. It wasn't a vendetta. It was just someone who wanted to kill somebody. And we talked about that early on. Right. If that is the case, those are the hardest to solve.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, we've had cases that we've talked about on TCAT where the individual just wanted to know what it felt like to kill. You know, they read about it, they've heard about it, and they wanted to do it themselves. So they. They knew what it was like.

[Mike Ferguson]

Such a scary thought. It is that. That goes through people's minds. When the Almeida fire broke out near Ashland, September 8, 2020, it destroyed David's sister's home in town. David's guitar was one of the few keepsakes she was able to grab before she lost her home. The paper also spoke to David's best friend, Garrison, who said that within a few months of losing David, he also lost his marriage and custody of his daughter.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, something like this changes so many people's lives after a tragic murder. Right.

[Listener Voicemail (Trisha)]

It's just.

[Mike Gibson]

It's David. It's David's family, It's his friends, his co workers. I mean, the community. Everybody's going to experience this loss and things associated with it.

[Mike Ferguson]

People's sense of safety.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, it. It's. It's hard to calculate how many people are affected by these types of murders.

[Mike Gibson]

And it's why you hear sometimes family members and friends move away from the community where they lost their loved one because they can't be in that community anymore. They can't drive by where it happened. They can't run into people that constantly remind them of what happened. They need a fresh start. They gotta get away.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you think about living in the same house. Okay. A lot of memories there. That's gonna hurt. That can be tough. But then you think about just driving through that community where you live. Okay. There's the McDonald's that, you know, we. We used to eat at, and who ate with us? David. Yeah. You know, there's his favorite restaurant. You just think about all these places, and it's just memory after memory. Now, some people want to keep those alive and can handle it. And like you said, some people can't, and they're forced to move away. Garrison and his mother set up a scholarship in David's honor to raise money for other young musicians in the Ashland area. If you have any information about the murder of David Grubbs, you can reach out to the Ashland Police Department at 541-488-2211. You can also call the anonymous tip line at 541-552-2333, or email tiplineashland or dot us. There's a $21,000 reward for information leading to an arrest. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, we've. We've talked about it throughout the episode, Our thoughts on this. So, you know, we won't spend a lot of time on the wrap up, but it was a very Heinous murder. I mean, just think about how it went down to be ambushed like that from behind with some type of long edged weapon and to nearly be decapitated. That's hard to think of.

[Mike Gibson]

Just from walking home, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, Wasn't doing anything wrong. Nice guy, didn't make enemies, didn't have enemies that anybody knew about.

[Mike Gibson]

You could almost say wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mike Ferguson]

You can. Now there is this interesting person, right? Christian De Laurentiis. There's no doubt that he would have been capable of this. He was a nasty individual. He was capable of murder. But did he do it? I mean, what was his motive? What would have been his motive? Yeah, right now they can't rule him out, but they can't rule him in either. So I feel like he'll just kind of sit there because there's no impetus or really reason for him to come out and say, hey, I want to tell you that I did this.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

If he did do it. And then, you know, if it's not him or even if it is him, I just feel like this one's going to come down to somebody who knows about it. Most likely not the killer, but knows about it coming forward and saying, I just can't live with this anymore. And I have to tell you what happened. And we do have a TCAT episode out right now that just dropped that was solved by a crime stopper's tip. So it does happen years later. Yeah, I just think with the lack of DNA, I don't know how else it. It would be solved.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, for his family, I hope that one day it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I do too. I do too. But that's it for our episode on the murder of David Grubbs. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Listener Voicemail (Trisha)]

Hey, guys, this is Trisha. I am currently in West Virginia, but I live in Virginia. I am a mobile pharmacy technician and I go to different facilities and service their medication machines. It's actually really interesting and it gives me time on the road with some quiet time to think and listen to your podcast, which I absolutely love, by the way. All of milk. Just wanted to let you guys know, I think it's awesome what you do. I think everybody appreciates how much time you give to the victims and how much support you show for their families. And, you know, just keep your head on a swivel and keep your time ticking. Have a great day. Bye.

[Mike Gibson]

A mobile drug worker is.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think that's what she said. Oh, mobile drug worker.

[Mike Gibson]

Did I hear it wrong?

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I don't know. I don't. That doesn't sound the same way that she explained. Yeah, she is mobile.

[Mike Gibson]

She's mobile. She deals with pharmaceuticals farm.

[Mike Ferguson]

She deals with pharmacies and machines and things like that.

[Mike Gibson]

That's awesome.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. We appreciate the voice very much. The kind words. We always do. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. Ticking. Sam. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

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[Listener Voicemail (Trisha)]

This is the mindset.

[Mike Ferguson]

Mindset. With movies like Titanic, Dreamgirls and Gladiator,

[Mike Gibson]

Are you not entertained?

[Mike Ferguson]

And TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the Fairly Young Godparents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Pluto TV stream now pay Never.

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