Don Henry and Kevin Ives

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved: Don Henry and Kevin Ives

Episode Date: March 9, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Episode #: 455

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Overview

This episode focuses on the mysterious deaths of Don Henry and Kevin Ives, two teenagers from Bryant, Arkansas, whose bodies were found on train tracks in 1987. Initially ruled accidental — allegedly a result of drug-induced unconsciousness — their deaths sparked decades of controversy, public outcry, and alternative theories including possible homicide, cover-ups, and local corruption. Ferguson and Gibson dissect the case, highlighting investigative failures, shifting autopsy conclusions, witness deaths, and persistent doubts about the official narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Timeline

1. Case Background and Victim Profiles

[03:31 – 04:29]

• Don Henry (16) and Kevin Ives (17), best friends slated to be seniors at Bryant High School.
• Well-liked, enjoyed hunting, working on cars, and double dating.
• Kevin loved waterskiing and “wasn’t perfect, just a normal teenager.”
  • Linda Ives (Kevin’s mother): “He didn’t deserve to die so young.” [04:42]

2. The Night of the Incident

[05:47 – 08:22]

• On night of August 22, 1987, boys meet friends at a local commuter parking lot (a typical small-town hangout).
• Shortly after midnight, Don goes home to collect his father's.22 rifle and a spotlight, telling his dad they’d go hunting.
• Boys planned to “go spotlighting” (night hunting using bright lights to transfix animals), which is illegal and dangerous.

3. Discovery on the Tracks

[08:22 – 12:10]

• At ~4:30am, an oncoming cargo train spots two boys lying motionless, parallel on tracks, covered partly by a green tarp.
• Engineer Stephen Schroyer (Unsolved Mysteries):
  “...About three to five seconds to impact... When you’re bearing down on a couple of children, it’s an eternity...” [09:27]
• Train crew initiates emergency stop but can’t prevent collision; bodies are mangled and dragged half a mile.

4. Initial Police Response & Autopsy

[12:10 – 15:15]

• Authorities treat it as a “strange accident” or suicide, largely disregarding train crew’s observations (notably, the green tarp).
• Dr. Fanny Malik, state medical examiner:
  “The boys had smoked the equivalent of 20 marijuana cigarettes and were in a deep drug-induced sleep and never heard the train coming.” [13:16]
  • Hosts question plausibility of 20 joints, especially for teens [14:01].
• Families reject the accident ruling; begin their own inquiries to clear their sons' reputations.

5. Families Challenge the Official Narrative

[15:26 – 19:17]

• Parents refute possibility that marijuana could have rendered the boys unconscious.
• The 1987 stigma around marijuana amplified negative perceptions of the boys.
• Larry Ives (Unsolved Mysteries):
  “I couldn’t believe that Kevin was knocked out on marijuana... We’d never seen him in a state that he even acted like he was spaced out...” [15:48]

6. Early Investigative Missteps

[19:17 – 24:07]

• Saline County Sheriff Steed insists it was just a “strange accident.”
• Prosecutor Richard Garrett launches an inquiry—major doubts arise over the boys’ long immobility despite a roaring train.
• Tests show no alcohol; questions mount about plausibility and depth of original investigation.

7. Suspicious Circumstances and Witness Testimony

[24:07 – 27:58]

• Several witnesses report seeing a man in military fatigues acting suspiciously near the tracks both a week before and the night of the deaths. [24:10]
• Paramedics and a deputy testify the blood was abnormally dark and bodies nearly colorless, suggesting they may have been dead already when run over by the train [26:15].
• Paramedic Shirley Raper recalls picking up a mystery man near the scene — never interviewed by police [27:58].

8. Disputed Forensics and Second Autopsy

[29:15 – 38:30]

• Dr. Malik adamantly defends his findings despite broad skepticism; calls contradictory evidence “speculative.”
• Multiple forensic specialists rebuke the possibility of marijuana-induced unconsciousness:
  • Dr. James Garriott: “Highly unlikely for any amount of THC exposure to cause that effect.” [34:35]
  • Dr. Arthur J. McBray: “Never heard anyone becoming unconscious from any amount of THC.” [34:35]
  • Dr. Lee F. Beemer: “No way to prove the boys hadn’t been rendered helpless by blunt trauma before the train impact... Massive trauma makes detection of preceding trauma nearly impossible.” [36:13]
• Autopsy found incomplete, reports lack details (organ weights, full dental charting), poor photos, mishandled evidence.

9. The Mysterious Green Tarp

[38:30 – 41:45]

• Train crew insists bodies were covered with a green tarp; police later deny its existence, suggesting it was “an optical illusion” [41:30].
• Strengthens theory of potential staging by a third party.

10. Grand Jury Reversal and Official Ruling Changed

[41:45 – 44:35]

• In 1988, grand jury rules deaths were “probable homicide”, reversing accident conclusion.
• Second autopsy finds boys had only smoked 1–3 joints, not 20; one boy likely dead, other unconscious prior to train impact.
• Microscopic tests confirm pre-mortem injury (puncture wound in Don’s back) and evidence of shirt tearing by sharp object.

11. Theories, Alleged Cover-Up, and Unsolved Threads

[45:54 – 53:31]

• Strong suspicion that boys witnessed a drug drop/deal; theory gains plausibility as prosecutor Dan Harmon is later convicted of racketeering and drug offenses [51:05].
• Repeated failures and even obstruction by Sheriff Steed; sabotaged evidence (clothes sent to state, not FBI) [46:38].
• Multiple potential witnesses or persons involved in case die under suspicious circumstances 1988-1990:
  • Keith McCaskill — stabbed over 100 times after expressing fear for his life [47:08].
  • Keith Coney — motorcycle accident, scheduled to testify [49:42].
  • Greg Collins — shot dead [50:00].
  • Daniel “Booney” Bearden — went missing [50:01].
  • Jeffrey Rhodes — found shot in landfill [50:01].
• Book (“The Boys on the Tracks”) and a documentary both allege official corruption; libel lawsuits ensue.

12. Unanswered Questions and Ongoing Theories

[53:31 – 59:37]

• Wrestler Billy Jack Haynes claims he witnessed the murders as muscle for a drug-connected local politician; provides names in 2018, but no public revelations [55:56].
• Despite lawsuits and Freedom of Information Act requests, many documents remain withheld or redacted.
• Linda Ives (Kevin’s mother) kept fighting for answers till her death in 2021.

13. Hosts' Conclusions

[57:28 – 59:59]

• Mike Gibson: “I definitely think the boys were murdered. I really believe that.”
• Mike Ferguson: “Just because of kind of everything involved: the tarp, the position ... the trauma before the train, the color of the blood. There was just a lot of people and ... experts ... saying things that made it sound like they were most likely murdered before the train hit them.”
• Still no definitive answers; plausible cover-up involving local officials, but concrete proof lacking.

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Notable Quotes

• Kevin’s mother, Linda Ives:
  “He didn’t deserve to die so young.” [04:42]

• Mike Ferguson, on the 20-joint theory:
  “Who in the world smokes 20 joints at a time?” [14:01]

• Larry Ives (Unsolved Mysteries):
  “I couldn’t believe that Kevin was knocked out on marijuana... We’d never seen him in a state that he even acted like he was spaced out...” [15:48]

• Dr. Arthur J. McBray, toxicologist:
  “[I’ve] never heard anyone becoming unconscious from exposure to any amount of THC.” [34:35]

• Mike Gibson, on repeated witness deaths:
  “When you have so many people tied to this potential case that end up murdered, then it makes you think maybe it is [connected].” [48:23]

• Mike Ferguson, on grand jury shift:
  “This is a huge change...the deaths were now classified as definitely homicide. This is a big shift.” [44:35]

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Major Takeaways

• The local authorities’ initial ruling of accidental death, based mainly on questionable toxicology and a disputed autopsy, quickly unraveled under public pressure.
• Multiple pieces of forensic and testimonial evidence (lack of major marijuana use, darkness of blood, pre-mortem injuries, forensic blunders) suggested the boys may have been dead or unconscious before being placed on the tracks.
• The “green tarp” and bodies’ positions indicate careful, possibly staged placement.
• Many with links to the case died or disappeared; authorities obstructed further investigation.
• Theories—supported by later convictions of local officials—suggest crime, cover-up, and possibly drug smuggling at the heart.
• Decades on, the official truth remains obscured by lost or suppressed evidence, dead witnesses, and persistent suspicion of a cover-up.

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For Further Listening & Reading

• “The Boys on the Tracks” by Mara Leverett
• “Obstruction of Justice: The Mena Connection” (film)
• Unsolved Mysteries segments on Don Henry and Kevin Ives

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This episode delivers a thorough, skeptical investigation into a classic, chilling Arkansas true crime mystery, blending forensic doubts, community pain, and hints of small-town conspiracy—leaving listeners with more questions than answers.

Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 455 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gimme. How are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, you know, I'm doing all right.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's great.

[Mike Gibson]

I got a little dental issue.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I hope it doesn't affect your performance as it has the other recordings. No, I'm just messing. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Meredith Foley.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Meredith.

[Mike Ferguson]

Kim Quinnan.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Quinnan.

[Mike Ferguson]

Renart.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, Art, appreciate that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jackie. Connor jumped out. Our highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, Connor.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yvonne Douglas.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Yvonne.

[Mike Ferguson]

Vicki.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, good old Vicki.

[Mike Ferguson]

Katie Purvis.

[Mike Gibson]

There's Katie.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Kathleen Cotton.

[Mike Gibson]

Look at Kathleen coming in for us.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Christine.

[Mike Gibson]

Good old pristine Christine.

[Mike Ferguson]

So we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Bobby Farrell Jr. He went missing from his Ohio home in 2021. And the killer, once he was identified, Gibbs, turned out to be someone that shocked friends and family. It was someone that Bobby really trusted.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And a person who had essentially become part of the family.

[Mike Gibson]

So disappointed.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because the motive is so senseless in this case. But make sure you check that out all Right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime? All the time unsolved.

[Mike Gibson]

I am ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

We are talking about Don Henry and Kevin Ives. A small town in Arkansas was shocked when two best friends were found dead on the train tracks. Authorities initially believed their death was an accident, but their families pushed for a second investigation. Don Henry was born on September 30, 1970. Kevin Ives was born on April 28, 1970. Don was 16 and Kevin was 17 when they died. The boys were going to be seniors at Bryant High School, and it was said that both of them were well liked by their peers. The two best friends enjoyed hunting together and working on their cars. Kevin loved being outdoors and regularly went on deer hunting trips with his dad. Don was described as a natural comedian. Most weekends, Don and Kevin went on double dates with their girlfriend.

[Mike Gibson]

Did you go on a lot of double dates?

[Mike Ferguson]

I did not. I was never a big double date guy. No, no, I was. I was pretty good on my own. I never really needed a quote, unquote wingman.

[Mike Gibson]

You had it covered.

[Mike Ferguson]

I had it covered. In an interview with the Saline Courier, Kevin's mother, Linda Ives, described Kevin as a water bug who loved to ski. She also said Kevin was not perfect. He was a normal teenage boy. He didn't deserve to die so young. And, you know, let's break that down a little bit. We always hear, especially parents, right, talking about their lost loved ones in very glowing terms. And they are here. I mean, they're saying, you know, he was a great kid, he was a comedian, he loved to water ski, but he wasn't perfect. He was a normal teenager. And let's face it, what teenager is perfect?

[Mike Gibson]

Nobody at this table.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. No. And we are definitely not teenagers at this point in time, but when we were teenagers, we certainly weren't perfect. But what she said is absolutely correct. No one deserves to die at such a young age.

[Mike Gibson]

It's tragic.

[Mike Ferguson]

On the night of August 22, 1987, Don and Kevin met a group of friends at the commuter parking lot, which was a popular hangout spot for local teens. And it's kind of interesting, Gibbs, when you go through some of these stories, especially in smaller towns, to find out what the local hangout spot was back in the day. I mean, this is a commuter parking lot. I mean, there's not a lot to do there. My assumption is it was just a place where people could congregate, there was

[Mike Gibson]

space, park their cars and have some fun.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, strangely, when I was younger and just starting to drive the Burger King, People would just drive their cars around the Burger King. They wouldn't even go through the drive through.

[Mike Gibson]

Just wanted to cruise through.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, just driving around the Burger King.

[Mike Gibson]

That's how kind of like mine was. Started off like the local McDonald's and it shifted over to the Godfather's pizza area and then just that's kind of how it stayed for, you know, for the short period of time I was in school, or as you would say,

[Mike Ferguson]

the long period of time you were in school. I mean, we had seven presidents while you were in high school.

[Mike Gibson]

That's just wrong.

[Mike Ferguson]

But to be honest, there wasn't a lot to do where we lived back in the day. I mean, there, it's grown up, you know, exponentially since we were that age. At midnight, the boys left to go back to Don's house. Kevin waited on the porch while Don went inside to talk to his father, Curtis. He came in around 12:15am and told his dad he was going hunting. Curtis told him to be careful. Don took one of his Dad's spotlights and his.22 rifle. Okay, I get it. I mean, they were big into hunting, sure. But it seems strange to me. I'm not a hunter, but it seems strange to me to go out hunting at 12:15am Most don't. It was said the boys were going spotlighting, which is a form of night hunting that is illegal in Arkansas.

[Mike Gibson]

It's illegal in most places, probably, and

[Mike Ferguson]

maybe part of that is because it's very dangerous. Right. Hunting in and of itself is dangerous. At night, the danger is magnified. Sure. Apparently one of the boys would shine a light in the animal's eyes to transfix them while the other fired.

[Mike Gibson]

Not really fair hunting just to, you know, put that out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would agree with that. Don and Kevin went to their usual hunting area along the railroad tracks behind Don's house. In the early morning hours of August 23, 1987, a 6,000 ton cargo train was making its regular night run to Little Rock, Arkansas, traveling at a speed of 52 mph. Around 4:30am the train was in Alexander, Arkansas, about a mile from Don Henry's home. Engineer Stephen Schroyer noted that things were going smoothly until he saw something in the train's path. He couldn't tell what it was at first and was horrified to discover two boys lying motionless on the track. Schroueer recalled unsolved mysteries. From the time that we had placed the train into an emergency position and laid down on the horn. I would estimate about three to five seconds to impact. And that may not sound like a very long period of time, but when you're bearing down on a couple of children, it's an eternity, honestly. We've talked about a lot of things, you know, on this podcast, Gibbs. I don't think we've ever talked about a train conductor bearing down on two people who were laying motionless on the tracks.

[Mike Gibson]

And I just think, what would that be like?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I said it right? We're talking about 6,000 tons going 52 miles an hour. You can't stop that on a dime. No, it's not going to happen. And so my thought is, I mean, yeah, he's going to do everything he can do, but he has to know that there is no stopping that training time. And I have no idea what the range of emotions would be going through this guy's mind.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm guessing at first you're like, move, move, move, move.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right?

[Mike Gibson]

Come on, move.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, you're hoping that the vibration, the sound, something is going to get these people to move. But at some point, it has to be clear that they're not capable of

[Mike Gibson]

moving, and you're not going to be able to stop the train in time either.

[Mike Ferguson]

Although Schroyer initiated an emergency stop, the train continued moving for half a mile. The bodies were mangled by the time the train stopped. And I think that just puts it into perspective right from the time he put the emergency stop on, it still took half a mile to stop that thing. And I can't even imagine how badly mangled two bodies would be that were run over by a train and dragged. It's a sad and sickening thought.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not going to be a pretty sight.

[Mike Ferguson]

The crew called in the accident immediately. The victims were identified as Don Henry and Kevin Ives. The crew who witnessed the accident recalled that Don and Kevin were lying exactly parallel on the tracks with their right arms straight down by their sides. They were partially covered by a light green tarp. Lying parallel to the bodies was Don's.22 caliber rifle. And they never moved despite the horn and the sound of the approaching train. Local officials in Benton, where the train came to a full stop, treated the incident like a suicide, despite the crew's objections. According to the Encyclopedia of Arkansas, officers also claimed they couldn't find the green tarp.

[Mike Gibson]

But the crew saw a green tarp.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, said they did. Meanwhile, Don and Kevin's parents were searching for the boys. When they didn't come home, they were notified about their deaths on August 24, after the boys had been identified through

[Mike Gibson]

dental records, I find it strange that they call it suicide. Even though the train conductor and crew say the boys didn't move at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

How hard would it be to lay still knowing that a train was bearing down on you if you were fully conscious, able to move? I mean, you're not going to flinch, you're not going to move a muscle. I don't know. That, that seems awful strange. And then obviously to me, if there is a green tarp laid over the bodies, well, why would someone do that to themselves? What would be the reasoning behind it?

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if they were doing it to themselves, were they thinking they were going to camouflage themselves?

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe. Maybe. I. Well, we got some mysteries here for sure. Lab results announced on August 26 revealed the teens had no alcohol in their blood. On September 4, 1987, State Medical Examiner, Dr. Fanny Malik announced his findings that the boys had smoked the equivalent of 20 marijuana cigarettes and were in a deep drug induced sleep and never heard the train coming. 20 marijuana cigarettes? I don't think people call them that anymore. Joints or whatever you want to call them. Who in the world smokes 20 joints at a time?

[Mike Gibson]

That's a lot of joints.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a lot of marijuana.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a lot of marijuana.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, let's not forget these are young kids, right. 15, 16 years old. Where are they getting enough pot to roll?

[Mike Gibson]

20 joints, that's the other thing, right? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

They got that much money and it seems like a waste.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Maybe one, two, maybe a third joint. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. If you want to get crazy, I

[Mike Gibson]

see how you roll, you know, but 20 joints, come on now.

[Mike Ferguson]

It just doesn't seem plausible. Right. If we're talking about the plausibility meter, the deaths were officially ruled an accident. Don and Kevin's parents didn't accept this and decided to conduct their own investigation. Larry, I've said he was determined to figure out what happened and to save his son's reputation. And that's an interesting facet. Right. To this case. Obviously they're grieving both families, but I think at the same time you're hearing that, you know, the, the kids reputations are being smeared. They're, they're being labeled as druggies or, you know, whatever it is. And let's not Forget this is 1987. This is not 2026 where marijuana is legal in many, many places. It wasn't in 1987.

[Mike Gibson]

No, not at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the connotation I think of it was much, much different.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. If you were smoking marijuana, then you were a druggie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Your eggs were like. Eggs were like your brain in a frying pan or whatever. That commercial was like, you know what I'm talking about?

[Mike Ferguson]

This is your brain.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is your brain on drugs.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Just say no. Larry told Unsolved Mysteries. Well, I couldn't believe that Kevin was knocked out on marijuana or into any kind of heavy drugs, anything like that, because I was at home a lot during the day when Kevin came in from school and Linda was here at night. And we'd never seen him in a state that he even acted like he was, you know, spaced out or however you want to phrase it, even if

[Mike Gibson]

you smoked a lot of pot. Are you telling me when that trains whistle blows, you hear that locomotive coming at you? The tracks are shaking?

[Mike Ferguson]

It's loud, man. A train is loud. There is a train, like, a mile from my house, and I can hear it every night. Yes. Inside the house. So I can only imagine what it would sound like if I was standing next to it.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you would move. You would move.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just keep going back to 20 marijuana cigarettes or joints. I've never heard of anyone smoking that much at one time. Maybe there's people out there saying, I do that all the time, but I would be shocked. According to the Encyclopedia of Arkansas, Saline County Sheriff James T. Jr. Repeatedly told the Benton Courier there was nothing at the tracks to suggest the deaths were more than a strange accident. Linda Ives criticized Steed's administration in a letter published in the Courier in February 1988. Special Prosecutor Dan Harmon reached an agreement with Sheriff Steed that he would conduct further investigation if the parents stopped criticizing him. Hey, I'll do it, but only if these parents stop criticizing me.

[Mike Gibson]

Seems like funny way to go about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does. Should you not do it just because it's something that should be done? That month, the parents held a press conference asking for a grand jury to investigate the deaths. They contended the deaths were never investigated as a possible homicide, and initial reports from authorities said there was no reason to suspect foul play. So this kind of goes back to something you and I have talked about a lot. If you have to err on one side or the other in a death that at the very least seems somewhat suspicious, shouldn't you err on the side of investigating it as a homicide? Because if it's not, there's really no harm in that. The problem is, I think if you go the other route and you just label it as an accident and do no investigation that might be detrimental there, there might be some things that are lost that you won't be able to get back.

[Mike Gibson]

I just find it strange that they say there's no reason to suspect foul play. You have two kids on a railroad track not moving with a train barreling down on them. You don't find that strange? Maybe there's some foul play going on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think it goes back to this finding of how much marijuana they had in their system. And if that was correct, authorities are looking at that and saying, hey, they just. They smoked too much, they passed out, they were unconscious, and they. They died.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Curtis Henry said, as quoted by the Jonesboro Son, no one has assured us that marijuana will put you in a position to be unconscious. In fact, everything we have read or learned about it says, no, it won't. We're not ruling out murder. Now, I'm not a big marijuana guy, but I won't say that I didn't inhale in college. You know, I'm not going to offer that up. What I will say is that I don't know if it could put you unconscious, but I also don't know anyone who's ever smoked that much marijuana. That's true at one time. Later that month, a total of 32 subpoenas were issued by Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Richard Garrett, who announced he would conduct a prosecutor's examination. Garrett had gone to the railroad crossing and waited for a train, which strengthened his suspicion that the deaths were not accidental. He said, I can't believe the boys could not get up if they were alive, because it's really frightening.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly what we were saying.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it goes back to that conversation. Right. A train weighing 6,000 tons and going 52 miles per hour is not only really hard to stop, but it makes a heck of a racket. This guy is calling it frightening. Sheriff Jim Steed said at the time that his office had never closed its investigation and would continue until there were no other leads to gather. These days, I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, it's just not worth it. To me, that's honestly why I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples. Using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk, and organic cotton poplin. Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. Quinn's Clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers, real people wearing these pieces every day and actually loving them. And I am one of those people. I can't get enough of Quince's performance flow. Knit line, shorts, joggers, tops. It's basically all I wear anymore. Stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want. You don't need a closet full of options. You need pieces that work right now. Go to quince.com trucrime for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Quincom Truecrime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/True Crime. You know, when Gibby and I first started this podcast, we really had very little idea what we were doing and we had so many questions about how things worked. We also had fears. You know, what if no one listens? What if we make fools of ourselves? But one thing that was really simplified was our merchandising when we partnered with Shopify. It really helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel to True Crime all the time to brands just getting started. Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. And did I mention that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less cards going abandoned and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com unsolved. Go to shopify.com unsolved that's shopify.com unsolved the AP reported at the time that the official file from the hospital included the notation from a paramedic that said blood from the bodies and on the body parts we observed was a dark color in nature due to our training. This would indicate a lack of oxygen present in the blood and could pose a question as to how long the victims had been down or dead.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's a good indication right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

The prosecutor's examination began on February 18, 1988. Matt Blevins, a friend of Don and Kevin, remarked at the hearing that he believed the suspicious man who fired at a police officer may have killed his friends. It was a week before the murders that a man wearing military fatigues was seen near the tracks. His behavior was suspicious, and when Officer Danny Allen stopped to question him, he opened fire and fled. Police searched the area but never found the suspect. Okay, so, you know, this friend of the boys is saying, hey, it could have been this guy. Very strange for someone to fire on a police officer and then take off

[Mike Gibson]

and then flash forward to these two kids carrying a spotlight and a weapon. Could it easily be thought that they were looking for this guy?

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe they were some kind of law enforcement and this guy got freaked out? Okay, yeah, I see where you're going. And the fact that if this was just a week before the murders, it's not like it was three years before. On the night Kevin and Don were killed, witnesses again saw a man in military fatigues heading down a road less than 200 yards from where they were found. Dwayne Biggs testified that he saw Don and Kevin at 11:15 at a ballpark in Little Rock. They had been in Don's car, and Kevin took a pistol from the vehicle to show him. Mike Seaman, who was also there, said each boy had a small bag of marijuana. Nine people shared a total of five marijuana cigarettes while they were hanging out in the ballpark. And to me, that sounds much more reasonable. Yeah, nine people sharing five joints as opposed to two kids smoking 20.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, big difference.

[Mike Ferguson]

The boys were laughing and grinning like they were up to something. This is according to Mike. When they talked about their plans to hunt near the railroad tracks, Paramedic Billy Heath testified that the blood on the victims was darker than he thought it should be if the boys were alive when the train hit them. He was asked what he thought the blood would look like if the boys were dead before they were hit, and said the blood would be quite dark, very dark, and there probably won't be very much blood out of the body. Deputy Kathy Carty also testified. My initial response then and my personal opinion now is that I felt it was a very strange situation. And I do not believe we had two young men lay side by side on the train tracks. None of us in our minds could accept that happening. Shirley Raper, the other paramedic on the scene, testified that the bodies were almost colorless. And this is really, to me, gives fascinating testimony. I mean, these are not laypeople. You know, we have a deputy, we have two paramedics saying, these boys, they did not look like they were Alive when the train hit them.

[Mike Gibson]

And this is going to back up the parents theory that their sons did

[Mike Ferguson]

not willingly lay down in front of the train or smoke so much marijuana that they what, just lost consciousness and it happened to be on the railroad

[Mike Gibson]

tracks, Laying side by side like they were.

[Mike Ferguson]

Shirley also revealed information that was not in her report. While searching for a place to drive the ambulance to the accident scene, she picked up a man who directed her to a single lane road leading into the wooded area. When she had gotten about a quarter mile into the area, she saw headlights from a pickup truck. There were three people in the truck, but she couldn't identify them. She did not approach the vehicle because the road was getting narrow. She left the ambulance and walked around a curve in the road. The man remained in the ambulance. She didn't ask his name. But when she returned to the ambulance, the truck was gone. She said she was never interviewed by investigators, which is why she didn't mention this. The men from her testimony were soon identified as volunteer firefighters who were attempting to assist authorities. Okay, so that maybe explains the guys in the truck. Who's this man that she picked up?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, this mystery man. Is this maybe the shooter from the week before?

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that has to be either against protocol or, you know, at least out of the ordinary. For a paramedic, somebody in an ambulance, to just pick a stranger up, I

[Mike Gibson]

would find it strange.

[Mike Ferguson]

Dr. Faymie Malik reaffirmed his original findings during the hearing. Dr. Malik called the testimony of the witnesses who doubted that marijuana would have caused such a deep sleep that the boys would not hear the train coming. Speculative and without substance. He said the victims took the secret with them. We are survivors trying to explain it. We may never know. I think there is no doubt. There is a part of that that's true. I mean, the survivors are always trying to explain what happened, right. When there is no explanation given. And there is always the possibility that we may never know the full truth. I mean, you have that in pretty much every unsolved case. Malik also said he gave the teens the benefit of the doubt by labeling the deaths accidental. After ruling out homicide, the sheriff's office told him there was no evidence of suicide and there were no suspicious wounds on the bodies. And I'm just wondering, you know, the condition of the boys bodies was described in such a brutal way, you know, mangled.

[Mike Gibson]

Mangled, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And we talked about it, right? This 6,000 ton train barreling down at 52 miles an hour. I think it would be hard to do a full complete Examination and figure out whether there were any wounds on those bodies that could have caused death.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

Again, I'm not a medical examiner, and I wasn't there. I can only imagine, though, what condition those bodies were in. At the end of the session, Deputy prosecutor Richard Garrett said he'd review the testimony before deciding whether to reopen the case. On February 26th. Garrett concluded the file would remain active and the investigation would continue. Garrett listed several unanswered questions in the case, according to the Jonesboro Sun. The questions were, why would the boys be lying with their heads flat on the railway bed when it would have been much more comfortable to have leaned their heads against the rail? Why would the position of their bodies be exactly the same? And why did neither boy make any movement as the train approached? Why did one boy have his shirt off, and apparently the shirt was some type of pullover, which, when found, was torn from the armpit to its base. Another question was, why was the whiskey bottle not found? Because apparently, witnesses testified the boys had a bottle of whiskey in their vehicle. But we said it right. Neither of them had alcohol in their blood.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to the autopsy findings, did the green tarp exist, and if so, what happened to it? Would trauma of a similar type sustained near the time of death have been detectable through autopsy? So some of these questions are some of the exact same ones we've been asking. You asked it right. Why would their bodies be in the exact same position side by side?

[Mike Gibson]

If they smoked and then passed out, they're not going to fall into the same position. Doesn't make any sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

And for me, the two other big ones are this green tarp. The engineer said he saw it. They never found it. And then also, could signs of homicidal violence have been detectable through autopsy, given the state of the condition of these bodies?

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if you killed these two boys and you wanted to make it very hard for someone to determine the death of them? Well, I guess if you put them on the track, cover up the bodies with a tarp, and hope that the train coming down doesn't spot them or doesn't spot them in time.

[Mike Ferguson]

And probably, given where you put them and how the track might curve, you might know that there is no possible way that a oncoming train is going to be able to stop.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

No matter what they do. So you're talking about cause of death?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Garrett also revealed there were no concrete suspects, but there were people they believed had information. In March 1988, the parents announced that Dr. James Garriott San Antonio had given a second opinion of Malik's findings. Garriott concluded it was highly unlikely for any amount of THC exposure to have the effects that Dr. Malick had alleged, and that mass spectrometry, the only true reliable test for the presence of drugs in the boy's systems, had not been performed. Another toxicologist, Dr. Arthur J. McBray of North Carolina, called Malik's conclusions very bizarre and said he'd never heard anyone becoming unconscious from exposure to any amount of thc.

[Mike Gibson]

So kind of aligning with our thoughts.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, again, do people get tired and pass out? Well, sure. I've seen many guys in college just, you know, eventually you just get tired and you kind of pass out. But to be unconscious, that's a completely different thing. I want to go back to this mass spectrometry. I mean, does it call into question the validity of the amount of marijuana this guy said was in their systems? Because to me, it was such a high amount that he was quoting.

[Mike Gibson]

It really was high.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you go back to people saying that there was nine people, and between them, they smoked five joints. Dr. Lee F. Beemer, an independent forensic pathologist and former state crime lab employee, reviewed the autopsy results, X rays and slides, and contended that neither the investigation nor the postmortem exam were complete. His report stated that there was no way to prove the boys had not been rendered helpless by blunt trauma to the head area prior to the train impact. According to Dr. Beamer, it's well known that the massive trauma of a train impact makes it impossible to say with certainty there was no preceding trauma of a similar type. And that makes absolute sense to me. I think what these people are also really calling into question is, you know, the original examinations, and obviously the police and the authorities are going to take their cues from the autopsy.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure they are.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if that's wrong, then the information they've been operating on is wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

And it seems to me at this point that it was wrong.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you have multiple professionals saying that it was. Or at the very least, it was incomplete. Right. The lung showed contusion and aspiration of blood, which is typical for cases in which blood is present in the airway during terminal breathing. This could have been caused by a skull fracture prior to the other injuries. And I'm taking that to mean if they were already deceased.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

The train coming along and hitting them would not cause them to breathe in blood or for blood to get in their airway because they're already dead.

[Mike Gibson]

It was whatever trauma happened Prior to

[Mike Ferguson]

that, Beamer also said the possibility that Don Henry was strangled prior to being hit could not be ruled out. He believes the boys were alive at the time of impact, or if not alive, dead for only a short amount of time. Beamer claimed Dr. Malik did not follow proper procedure by not listing the dental findings and gross findings by organ system for one victim. No organ weights were listed for Don, and the listing of the liver weight for Kevin was an error. So, you know, he's really hammering this doctor. Basically saying he did a shoddy job.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Wonder in this city county if this doctor didn't have to perform a lot of these.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, we did say this was a very small town in Arkansas. Not sure you know, where this coroner was from, but maybe you're right. Maybe they didn't have a lot of homicides, or maybe they definitely didn't have a lot of situations like this because I don't know how many jurisdictions would. Yeah, this is a very strange, bizarre situation. The photography was also poor, and 7x rays were useless because there was no identification.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like that's just being sloppy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, sloppy, shoddy, whatever you want to call it. They're just really calling into question this guy's work and the autopsy that was done. I wholeheartedly believe in therapy, but finding a therapist is hard enough. Finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's where most online therapy platforms fall short. Many don't work with insurance at all, which means you're stuck paying the full cost out of pocket or paying for an expensive monthly subscription. Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. That's real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. Think about it. You use your insurance benefits to maintain your physical health, so why wouldn't you do the same for your mental health? There's no wait list, no frustrating back and forth. Rula makes it easy to find a mental health provider who is accepting new patients, and appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. You know, there have been times in my life when anxiety and stress built up to the point where I could have really used therapy. But back then, there was nothing like Rula around. As I've gotten older, I've used online therapy, and I can genuinely say it works. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.comtcat to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's r u l a.com tcatt. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. True crime all the time Unsolved is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Dr. Beamer also noted the possibility that someone covered their bodies with the tarp. And so this green tarp, which we've talked about on a number of occasions, became a central issue in this case. Neither Don nor Kevin owned a green tarp, meaning it's possible someone was at the scene and covered their bodies. All four individuals on the train who were able to see the bodies prior to the accident saw the green tarp. Police who searched the scene later denied that the train's engineer told them about a tarp. The sheriff's office denied the existence of the tarp and said that the crew's observation was an optical illusion.

[Mike Gibson]

How do they know it was an optical illusion?

[Mike Ferguson]

I have no idea. But, you know, these people on the train, I mean, they have no vested interest in lying, right? I mean, what's in it for them to lie about this green tarp?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

On March 23, 1988, a judge ordered the exhumation of the bodies. A grand jury was ordered to convene on April 27 to investigate the deaths. On May 25, the grand jury reversed the medical examiner's original finding of accidental death and ruled the boy's death's probable homicide. The grand jury's preliminary report called for a state police investigation. And that doesn't surprise me at all. You know, based on the things that we've talked about, a lot of which I assume would have been testimony given, you know, to this grand jury. There's gotta be a lot of doubt about the fact that these boys were unconscious, laying on these tracks.

[Mike Gibson]

I'd have a lot of issues with the first autopsy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, and I'm sure they did, too. You know, if you had all these people testifying, kind of poking holes, saying, this guy did a bad job or at the very least was incomplete. Dr. Joe Burton, an Atlanta pathologist hired by the county to perform the second autopsies testified that Dr. Malik's exams were consistent in their form and content with what might be expected from a medical examiner who was asked to examine the remains of two individuals who allegedly have died by accidental means in a pedestrian train accident. So to me, that goes back to kind of the judgment early on that this was an accident. So is he saying the autopsy was done as though this was an accident? So there are certain things that you wouldn't do that maybe you would do if it was possibly a homicide?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think that's kind of what he's saying. Right. Like this. The first time the autopsy was performed, the guy went in there with the way I hear it, it's kind of like blinders. Like he went in, like it's only this. So just verify certain things that back

[Mike Ferguson]

that up, and maybe the scope would be different if, you know, he was given different information. The second autopsy determined that together the boys smoked between one and three marijuana cigarettes, far less than the 20 estimated by the previous examiner.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a big difference.

[Mike Ferguson]

And again, it goes back to me. 20 just does not sound plausible. There was also evidence that one boy was already dead and one unconscious before the train hit them. On September 9, 1988, the grand jury gave an interim report stating the deaths were now classified as definitely homicide. This is a huge change.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's a big shift.

[Mike Ferguson]

Microscopic scanning of a torn section of a shirt worn by Don and analysis of a puncture wound to his back indicated he sustained injuries prior to those inflicted by the train. This information was in a video presentation by Dr. Joe Burton, who performed the second autopsies and subsequent tissue and clothing tests. His presentation was shown when the ruling was announced, and we said it right. Don shirt was not found on his body, and it was found some distance away from the railroad track. The shirt had what was said to have been lots of tears and defects. Burton took the shirt to a private lab in Atlanta and cut out a 1 inch tear from the left lower back area where the injury was. The microscopic examination showed that the defect in the shirt was made by something cutting through the fabric. There were also red blood cells around the margins of the defect. So, I mean, I don't think there's any doubt right. This second autopsy. Much different than the first one. The findings are different. Although the ruling had been changed, investigators still face the question of who killed Don and Kevin.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's still sitting out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I go back to what I said earlier. If it's not investigated as a Possible homicide from the get go. You're really putting yourself at a big disadvantage. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

You're behind the eight ball for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

When asked by Unsolved Mysteries for his thoughts on the case, Deputy prosecutor Richard Garrett alleged that the boys saw something they shouldn't have and it had to do with drugs. According to the Encyclopedia of Arkansas, Sheriff Steed refused any funds to aid in the investigation and. And lied about where he sent the boy's clothes. He sent them to the state crime lab and not to the FBI as intended.

[Mike Gibson]

Why would he do that?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. But this Steve guy doesn't come off as great. Right. He comes off as not wanting to really investigate this case.

[Mike Gibson]

It almost makes you wonder if there's

[Mike Ferguson]

something else to it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or some reason behind it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Those who study this case have noted that at least five witnesses died or disappeared between 1988 and 1990. That seems like a big number.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a very large number.

[Mike Ferguson]

Keith McCaskill, an informant for Dan Harmon, who took aerial photos of the crime scene, was murdered on November 10, 1988, two days after Sheriff Steed lost reelection. According to the website Arkansas Gravestones, Keith turned over information about the boys murder to prosecutor Richard Garrett. He feared for his life and told his family and friends goodbye. Days later, he was murdered. He was stabbed over 100 times.

[Mike Gibson]

Holy cow, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

100 times. And he saw this coming.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. He told his family and friends as much. Right. Richard Garrett said that McCaskill was not a potential witness for the grand jury and that his information was not earth shattering, per the Jonesboro son. So I don't know, was this guy killed because of this case, or did he meet some grisly end that at the hands of somebody that really had nothing to do with the case? I don't know what I will say is being stabbed a hundred times, that is a big, big number.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a huge number. But to say, is it related or not, we don't know. But when you have so many people tied to this potential case that end up murdered, then it makes you think maybe it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

In August 1989, Ronald Shane Smith was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the murder of McCaskill. The murder weapon was never found, and no clear motive was ever established. There was talk that Smith was allegedly paid to kill McCaskill. An inmate named Kenneth Kittler testified that he was offered $4,000 to kill Keith, but he declined. This testimony was not allowed at trial. So again, if he was paid to kill Keith, McCaskill, who paid him and why? I mean, it almost sounds like if it did happen, then there's some bigger cover up going on that we don't even know about. Keith Kony, who was scheduled to testify before the grand jury, died in a motorcycle accident in early January 1989. Greg Collins, who was also called to testify and was an acquaintance of Coney, was fatally shot on January 22, 1989. Now, a motorcycle accident, those happen.

[Mike Gibson]

Good.

[Mike Ferguson]

Motorcycles are dangerous and people die. But I think when your friend or your acquaintance and another person connected to the case dies the same month from a gunshot wound, well, maybe you look at that motorcycle accident a little differently.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Witness Daniel Booney, bearded, who was subpoenaed to testify, went missing in March 1989. Jeffrey Edward Rhodes, who was linked to the case, was found dead in a Landfill on April 15, 1989. The charged skeletal remains consisted of a rib cage, other bones and teeth. Rhodes was last seen at his apartment in Benton on April 3. He left with two other people. His motorcycle was found on April 4 behind a church in Saline County. Rhodes was killed by a gunshot to the head. There were no suspects or motives. So, again, I don't know what you make of it, but you have four people who either were set to testify, did testify, or had links to the case who were found dead in. In about a four month period.

[Mike Gibson]

Very suspicious it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

But again, who would want them dead?

[Mike Gibson]

And why?

[Mike Ferguson]

And why? Dr. Faimi Malik resigned from his position in 1991. Prosecutor Dan Harmon was later convicted of racketeering, conspiracy, extortion, and drug possession with intent to distribute. In 1997, he was sentenced to 11 years in prison. Never good for a prosecutor.

[Mike Gibson]

No, no, his career is pretty much over.

[Mike Ferguson]

But the drug angle, right? There are a lot of theories to this day that kind of revolve around Henry and Ives deaths having something to do with drug trafficking. And you have the prosecutor who was convicted of possession with intent to distribute.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Makes you think. How. How high up did this go?

[Mike Ferguson]

There's one theory that they were murdered after witnessing a drug drop from an airplane. This claim links the case to the operations of Berry Seal, a commercial airline pilot who became a major smuggler for the Medellin cartel and the Mena Airport in nearby Polk County. However, no direct link has been documented. Is Barry Seal the guy that Tom Cruise played in that movie where he was the pilot trafficking drug?

[Mike Gibson]

I think so.

[Mike Ferguson]

He might have been. I don't know. I don't know if I've seen that movie. I Just see it pop up all the time.

[Mike Gibson]

Wouldn't that call like the All American or something like that?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think so.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I know which one you're talking about.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I can't. Made in America.

[Mike Gibson]

Made in America, Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Then he flips sides. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I haven't seen it.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I don't know if it's Barry Seale or not. In 1999, investigative journalist Mara Leverett published the book the Boys on the Tracks, Death Denial and A Mother's Crusade to Bring Her Son's Killers to Justice, which also addresses the alleged involvement of the authorities in the murders. According to Mora, Dr. Faimi Malik was accused by his own staff of keeping outdated crime lab stationary on which he allegedly falsified findings and autopsy reports just before certain cases went to court. The hospital where the boys were taken and examined kept no records of their presence there. The hospital clerk told an investigator that was why the families weren't built.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay. I mean, things are looking pretty shady.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 1996, film producer Patrick Matriciana released Obstruction of justice the Mena Connection, which also made allegations against authorities. A graphic at the end of the film stated suspects implicated in Ives Henry murders and cover up enlisted the names of Jay Campbell and Kirk Lane, both of whom worked for the neighboring Pulaski County Sheriff's Office. Campbell and Lane sued the producer and his film company, and they won $600,000.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, I mean, you do have to be careful.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Saying people did this or did that or were implicated in this or that. However, in July 2001, the U.S. court of Appeals in St. Louis ruled that Mattressianni did not libel two officers by stating that they were implicated in the murder. The phrase implicated in was too vague for us to conclude. The officers had been accused of criminal content. You know, words matter and, you know, there's a fine line.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure is.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's why person of interest and suspect are different. Things like that allegedly, allegedly is used a lot. In August 2016, Kevin's mother, Linda Ives, filed a new lawsuit. And citing a violation of the Freedom of Information act by local and federal officials or stonewalling in relation to the deaths. On November 15, 2017, a federal judge ordered the executive office of U.S. attorneys, the DEA, and Department of Homeland Security to turn over for private review documents that had formerly been redacted. Linda's suit was dismissed in 2019. In February 2018, William Albert Haynes, a wrestler who went by the name Billy Jack Haines, claimed he witnessed the murders. He told Kark he reached out to Larry and Linda Ives. After years of guilt, they connected with a PI and Haines shared his story in a YouTube video designed to raise money for the investigation. He claimed that while performing in the 1980s for the World Wrestling Federation, which is now the WWE, he transported and trafficked cocaine throughout the U.S. this brought him to Arkansas. In August 1987, he was contacted by an Arkansas criminal politician who asked if he would provide muscle during a transaction. The politician was suspicious that cash was being stolen from drops. While conducting security, Haines witnessed the murder of Kevin Ives and Don Henry. He said they were killed by other individuals who were working for the same criminal politician. Their bodies were put on the tracks. Haynes said he handed over the names of everyone involved, but those names were not made public. So there are a lot of interesting angles to this thing, Gibbs. You know, as we wrap this thing up, I mean, you have a lot of theories that kind of center around drugs.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You've got this wrestler saying, you know, he witnessed the murders. You've got the prosecutor was convicted of essentially drug trafficking or intent to traffic. So this theory that, you know, the two boys witnessed something they shouldn't have and were killed because of it, I mean, you'd have to say it's definitely a possibility. And then afterwards, their bodies were placed on the tracks, knowing that the train would come along and mangle their bodies as it did.

[Mike Gibson]

I definitely think the boys were murdered. I really believe that. I believe they were murdered.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm leaning that way, too. Just because of kind of everything involved. Right. The tarp, the position of their bodies, Some of the experts saying that they had marks that would indicate trauma before the trauma caused by the train. The color of the blood, that their bodies were colorless. I mean, there was just a lot of people and people in positions who you wouldn't think would lie, kind of saying things that made it sound like they were most likely murdered before the train hit them. You know, to me, the amount of marijuana in their system is huge. The second autopsy said it was much, much less. Right. But to me, the big thing is, okay, if they were murdered, is there this cover up angle of, like, politicians and authorities who were involved? Because that's a lot of what the theories kind of focus on it does.

[Mike Gibson]

It makes me wonder the same thing, you know, is this one of those rural counties that people were mixed up in the drug business and they had people in high level positions assisting?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. Linda ives died in 2021. Linda's sister Carol said she lost consciousness and was septic due to an infection. It's been 38 years since Don Henry and Kevin Ives were killed, and the questions remain right. Were they killed because they accidentally came upon a drug deal or some type of illegal activity while they were out hunting? Were local authorities involved? I don't know what it would take to get these answers. Probably someone coming forward with some type of confession, because this doesn't seem like if this is the way it went down. It doesn't seem like this was something that a bunch of people weren't privy to.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

There had to have been, like, a number of people involved if it went down the way that some people theorize. But it's a. It's a fascinating case. You hate that two young people lost their lives, but the questions of what happened to them are so very interesting, and the facts around it, they're hard to ignore.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it for our episode on Don Henry and Kevin Ives. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Listener/Voicemail Caller]

Hi, Mike and Gizzy. I'm calling from Victoria, Australia. Well, I just wanted to say how much I love KE your podcast. I've actually been watching you since I started high school, and now I'm graduated and starting uni, so I just, like. I just realized that I was like, oh, my gosh. So you guys have been like a big, big thing in my, you know, growing up. In my childhood, I used. I love listening to you guys talk about true crime with my mum. Well, anyway, I just wanted to say how much I love the podcast and. Yeah, true. Keep your own.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Listener/Voicemail Caller]

Just continue doing what you guys do. Thank you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Awesome. Love the voicemail. So, you know, she has to be in between my two daughters. Ages.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's what seems like, mate.

[Mike Ferguson]

I love when people say uni. I love that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, the uni. Yeah. That.

[Mike Ferguson]

That cracks me up so much. Is because we never hear it here.

[Mike Gibson]

Don't.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they do say it in other parts of parts of the world, and I always love it. And I love Australian accents. You've heard me say, oh, I know

[Mike Gibson]

you have a thing for it, mate. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I had a big thing for Kylie Minogue when I was younger.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. We all know. We see the post. I see the poster on the walls, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. You know, you sounded more like. Like Paul McCartney there.

[Mike Gibson]

Did I?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Than Australia. There was not. I didn't hear Australia at all.

[Mike Gibson]

Australian people came from.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's more John Lennon, Paul McCartney to me. Actually, that's probably a better British accent than the. When you try to do the British accent.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Much better.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. But it's cool, right? That it is. You know, we talk about we've been doing this thing for a long time and our lives have changed. So obviously, the people who listen, their lives have changed as well. Absolutely. We're just glad to be along for the ride.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And congrats to you being at uni or graduating.

[Mike Ferguson]

Say she graduated, I think.

[Mike Gibson]

I think so. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe.

[Mike Gibson]

Congratulations.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. That's a big accomplishment.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. Ticking.

[Mike Gibson]

Sam.

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n. If you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. If you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you out, identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-granger clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.