True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode: Jermain Charlo
Date: March 16, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (Gibby)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the mysterious 2018 disappearance of Jermain Charlo, a young mother and member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Mike and Gibby guide listeners through Jermain’s background, her troubled relationship with ex-boyfriend Michael Defrance, the events leading up to her disappearance, and the subsequent investigation. The episode critiques systemic issues impacting missing and murdered Indigenous women, examines suspect behavior, and discusses both the heartbreak and frustrations endured by Jermain’s family.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jermain Charlo’s Background

• Jermain, 23, was from the Flathead Reservation in Montana and a member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes.
• She had a close bond with her aunt, Valinda Morgo, who recounts family stories and her attachment to Jermain (04:02).
• Jermain was descended from Chief Charlo, known for peaceful resistance during the 1870s (05:21).
• She enjoyed a variety of activities from dressing up and going out, to fishing and caring for pets, even pigs (05:59).
• Jermain was artistic and dreamed of attending the Institute of American Indian Arts. She had two sons, Jacob and Thomas, and valued being a mother (05:59).

Relationship with Michael Defrance

• Jermain met Michael, two years her senior, at age 14. Their relationship was tumultuous and marked by domestic violence.
• Griffy remarks on repeated domestic violence in such cases:
  Quote: “Unfortunately, I feel like in almost every episode that we have coming out...there are elements of domestic violence...there has to be a way to put an end to all this.” (06:00)
• Jermain’s family witnessed red flags, including Michael’s controlling and violent behaviors.
• In 2013, Michael assaulted Jermain when she was 17, admitting to hitting and spitting on her. He pleaded guilty to “partner family member assault,” but served no jail time (10:09).
• Jermain continued to see Michael despite the violence, a dynamic the hosts discuss as common in domestic abuse due to complex psychological and situational pressures (12:04).

Events Leading Up to Her Disappearance

• By 2017, the relationship had ended for good, but Jermain and Michael shared custody struggles over their sons.
• Michael had an attorney and more financial resources, leading to him gaining full custody; a stressful situation for Jermain (14:00).
• Jermain’s life was showing signs of improvement: a new job, a new relationship with “Jacob,” and hope for a position as a tribal firefighter (15:28).
• On June 14, 2018, Jermain visited her aunt and was enthusiastic about upcoming work (16:02).

Broader Context: Indigenous Women & Missing Persons

• The case is part of the larger crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous women in the US and Canada.
• Indigenous women make up a disproportionately high percentage of Montana's missing persons: 6% of the population but 24% of cases (17:08).
• 80% of Indigenous women experience violence in their lives—a “staggering” and “sad” statistic, the hosts note (17:10).

The Night Jermain Disappeared

• June 15, 2018: Jermain and Michael go out in downtown Missoula, visiting several bars.
• She appears on two surveillance videos: walking down the street with Michael, and socializing outside a bar called the Badlander, Michael standing a few paces behind (17:26).
• After talking to acquaintances outside the bar, she walks off with Michael—this is the last verifiable sighting (18:38).
• Jermain becomes unresponsive to calls and texts, and her social media goes silent, alarming her family (18:46).

Investigation & Police Response

Delayed and Fragmented Law Enforcement Action

• Jermain’s mother tried to report her missing to tribal and Missoula Police, but the family was “pushed from one agency to another” and told to file reports in person (19:12).
  Quote: “Unfortunately, we hear about this a lot…families are frantic…and they’re getting pushed from one agency to another…” (19:12)
• Police interview Michael, who changes his story several times:
  • Initially, he claims to have left Jermain at a supermarket.
  • Later asserts he dropped her near a friend named “Cassidy”—who doesn’t exist (23:13).
  • Eventually he explains her phone pinging north of Missoula near his property by saying she left it with him, and he threw it out along his trucking route two days later (35:57).
• The shifting stories prompt the hosts’ skepticism: Quote: “When you tell the truth…very rarely should you ever have to change your story because there is no different story” (32:58).

Phone Evidence & Timeline

• Cell data shows Jermain’s phone active near Michael’s Avaro Hill residence from 2am–10am on June 16 (31:35).
• This conflicts with Michael’s claims about where he last saw her.
• Michael’s explanation for the discarded phone is roundly doubted by both hosts; throwing out the phone of a missing person looks “more guilty” (36:12).

Suspect Behavior & Community Observations

• Friends and bystanders noticed Michael’s visible discomfort and jealousy during the night—arms crossed, glaring, and not speaking when Jermain interacted with others (27:36). Quote: “He wasn’t very, like, stoked that she was talking to people other than him…arms crossed…he didn’t really say anything…” – Eddie Woodcock, friend (27:36)
• Michael's mother asserted to police that Jermain had never been to their home, and Michael still wanted to reconcile (36:12).

Evidence Searches and Frustrations

• Property searches in August and October 2018 (using thermal imaging and ground/air observations) yielded no public results (37:17, 39:12).
• Guns owned by Michael—illegal due to his prior conviction—were found and led to a separate federal case (39:12).

Investigation Outcome and Legal Developments

Federal Case Against Michael Defrance

• Michael is indicted on firearms charges in 2021, pleads not guilty (41:09).
• Convicted in 2023. Detective Guy Baker affirms belief that Jermain is likely deceased, though without finding her remains (43:05). Quote: “Yes, I believe she is no longer with us…but there’s been situations where women have been held captive…” – Detective Baker (43:05)
• Michael sentenced to 21 months in federal prison for firearms violations (46:54).
• The sentence is seen by Jermain’s family as “the smallest bit of justice,” though not what they truly wanted (47:47).
• In 2024, his conviction is overturned on a legal technicality involving differences in state/federal domestic violence law definitions (49:33). Quote: “It’s possible to be found guilty of violating the Montana law for verbal or emotional abuse, and that would not necessarily meet the criteria of physical force under the federal definition.” (48:54)

Reflections, Theory, and Ongoing Uncertainty

• The hosts repeatedly discuss that Michael, while never formally named a suspect or charged in connection with Jermain’s disappearance, looks suspicious to many—due to lies, his proximity to Jermain, and the fate of her phone (50:13–51:49).
• Both hosts express doubt that Jermain is still alive, given years of no contact, no activity, and no trace (50:13, 43:05).
• Other explanations, like human trafficking, were considered but investigated and ruled out (37:07).
• The episode concludes with a plea for tips and hope for resolution for the family (50:15).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On systemic failing:
  “In…the state of Montana, Indigenous people make up only 6% of the population, but 24% of the state’s active missing persons cases.” – Mike Ferguson (17:08)

• On domestic violence context:
  “She allowed a lot of negative behavior and justified it with that need for this picture-perfect family that she’d always dreamt of.” – Jermaine’s aunt Danielle Matt (Interview referenced at 13:10)

• On suspect behavior:
  “When you tell the truth…I mean, very rarely should you ever have to change your story because there is no different story.” – Mike Ferguson (32:58)
  “Why the hell do you throw a phone away?” – Mike Gibson (51:49)

• On family despair:
  “Her family still hopes that one day she might be found, but as I think is often the case, they no longer believe she’s alive.” – Mike Ferguson (50:13)

Highlighted Timestamps

• Jermain’s background and personality: 04:02–05:59
• Domestic violence history: 09:31–10:36
• Missing Persons crisis for Indigenous women: 16:47–17:26
• Night of disappearance and evidence: 17:26–25:21
• Michael’s changing stories: 23:13, 32:07, 35:57
• CCTV sightings: 17:26–18:38
• Family’s efforts and frustration with law enforcement: 19:12–22:23
• Discovery and investigation of evidence: 31:35–37:17, 39:12
• Federal conviction and reversal: 46:54–49:33
• Reflections on case status: 50:13–51:49

Tone & Style

As is typical of True Crime All The Time Unsolved, Ferguson and Gibson approach the story with seriousness, empathy, and occasional light-hearted banter. The hosts are sensitive in their treatment of domestic violence and critical of legal and administrative obstacles to justice. The tone, while occasionally broken by their rapport, remains respectful and focused on the victim.

Call to Action

If you have information on Jermain Charlo’s case, contact Missoula Police Detective Guy Baker at 406-552-6284.

This summary encapsulates the major developments, context, and emotional gravity of Jermain Charlo’s disappearance as discussion in this episode, offering a comprehensive guide for those who have not listened.