Joseph Smedley

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved – Episode 407: Joseph Smedley

Release Date: March 24, 2025
Hosts: Mike Ferguson and Mike "Gibby" Gibson

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the mysterious death of Joseph Smedley, a 20-year-old Indiana University student whose death was ruled a suicide by drowning in 2015. Despite the official ruling, Joseph’s family—especially his sister Vivian—believes foul play may have been involved. Mike and Gibby walk listeners through Joseph’s background, the timeline of his disappearance, evidence in the case, and the many questions left unanswered, ultimately providing thoughtful speculation on the plausibility of suicide versus potential homicide or accident.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Joseph Smedley's Background [03:08 – 12:40]

• Joseph was described as an upbeat, multi-talented student from Indianapolis, known for being a jokester and excelling in academics, sports (wrestling, swimming, martial arts), music, and cooking.
• He faced family difficulties: his parents divorced, had a fractured relationship with his mother, and dealt with challenges when his father remarried. He later became an emancipated minor in high school.
• Enrolled at Indiana University in biochemistry, Joseph was popular, ambitious, and had a close relationship with his sister, Vivian.

Quote:
"Joseph has always been multi-talented…a good and responsible student…We will always love and miss him." – Joseph Smedley Sr. (as read by Mike Ferguson) [04:28]

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College Life, Fraternity, and Living Situation [12:44 – 14:19]

• Joseph joined Sigma Pi fraternity, surprising his family due to the group's reputation.
• He moved off-campus with fraternity brothers and seemed optimistic about the new living situation.
• Relationship with his father was estranged at this point, but he remained close with Vivian.

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The Disappearance & Strange Communications [14:19 – 19:10]

• Days before going missing, Joseph faced a $680 lease-termination fee but had plans to pay it.
• On September 28, 2015, Vivian received a cryptic 4:15 am text:
  "Viv, I love you. I'm leaving the country by not telling you why. I'm keeping you safe and protected..."
  – Joseph’s phone (via Mike Ferguson) [15:38]
• Vivian dismissed it as one of his pranks (Joseph didn’t have a passport; she thought he might be joking).
• She later tried to reach him, couldn't, and requested a welfare check.
• A handwritten note, strikingly similar to the text, was found in Joseph’s room; it was signed “Smedley,” which Vivian said was highly uncharacteristic.

Quote:
“It would be strange to see a note signed Smedley when Joseph never would have done that.” – Mike Ferguson [18:38]

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Early Investigation & Timeline Issues [19:10 – 22:59]

• Police initially confused Joseph with another man in jail due to a similar name, adding to family distress.
• Police later confirmed Joseph was officially missing.
• Vivian began to suspect neither the note nor the text came from Joseph, especially given the unusual language and signature.
• Group chat records showed tension with fraternity brothers over unpaid dues, suggesting possible sources of conflict.
• No financial or travel activity suggested he’d left the country as the messages claimed.

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Cell Phone Pings & Forensic Findings [22:59 – 25:58]

• Joseph’s phone pinged at three locations on September 28: 4:15 am downtown Bloomington, 30 minutes later near Griffey Lake, and at 6:30 am off State Road 37.
• Scent dogs tracked no trace of Joseph at these spots.
• Phone activity indicated he (or at least his phone) traveled by car, not on foot, despite not having a working vehicle.

Insight:
“His cell phone was in the area, but he wasn’t there. So who has his cell phone? Maybe somebody who did him harm...” – Mike Gibson [23:39]

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The Discovery & Ruling of Suicide [27:01 – 32:12]

• October 2, 2015: Joseph’s body was found in Griffey Lake with binoculars around his neck; police immediately suspected no foul play.
• He was a strong swimmer, and family questioned drowning as cause.
• Autopsy revealed THC and alcohol in his system. A backpack filled with 66 pounds of rocks weighed him down.
• Official cause: Suicide by drowning.

Quote:
“Things got very strange very quickly... If you have a backpack on...I don’t know who’s going to do that...while you’re out drinking.” – Mike Gibson [32:29]

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Family’s Doubts, Private Investigation & Obstacles [34:26 – 46:39]

• Vivian struggled to obtain case info from police, hindering her ability to get independent forensic evaluation.
• Second autopsy found bruising on Joseph’s back—could suggest a struggle or impact, but incomplete due to lack of police cooperation.
• Vivian and supporters questioned logistics:
  • Where would Joseph find 66 pounds of rocks at the lake?
  • Why would someone choose to drown this way—especially in water only five feet deep?
  • Why was Joseph’s phone found separately from his body?

Quote:
"It’s just going to be natural for your body to kick into that [survival] mode... I don’t know if many people are strong enough to fight that." – Mike Gibson [35:32]

Official Statement Read:
Police stated all cooperation went through Joseph’s father, not Vivian, possibly explaining communication breakdowns. [40:29–43:17]

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Alternative Theories: Hazing, Accident, or Foul Play? [50:50 – 54:24]

• The fraternity’s subsequent suspension for hazing led hosts to speculate if a fraternity-related incident could have caused Joseph’s death, followed by attempts to stage a suicide.
• Questions persisted about the authenticity of the notes/texts, and whether those messages indicated an attempt to cover up.

Quote:
“Could you see some type of hazing here that went horribly wrong?...People decide they don’t want to get in trouble, and they cover it up and try to make it look like something else.” – Mike Ferguson [51:12]

Bizarre elements:

• The impersonality and language of the text/note.
• Signature “Smedley” (possibly a fraternity nickname?).
• Strong swimmer; shallow water; heavy rocks; timeline inconsistencies.
• No history of suicidal ideation; plans for future.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Does it make sense to you that somebody...would roam around in the woods in the dark, put a backpack on, pick up rocks to weigh themselves down, and then jump off into a lake that has an average depth of three feet?” – Joseph’s father [44:48]
• “Every specialist I’ve reached out to said the same thing: They don’t understand why it’s a suicide.” – Vivian (as quoted by Mike Ferguson) [45:52]
• “If the medical examiner says it’s suicide, they have nothing to look into. There’s no crime.” – Mike Gibson [47:20]
• “It is a very mysterious death...definitely some unanswered questions that deserve a little more looking into.” – Mike Ferguson [56:40]

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Timeline Highlights & Timestamps

• Joseph’s Background / Family Dynamics: [03:08 – 12:40]
• Fraternity Life & Lease Issues: [12:44 – 14:19]
• Disappearance and Strange Final Text: [14:19 – 16:30]
• Discovery of Note & Investigation: [17:13 – 19:10]
• Roommate & Fraternity Tensions: [21:44 – 22:59]
• Cell Phone Activity: [22:59 – 25:58]
• Joseph’s Body Found: [27:01 – 28:17]
• Autopsy Results, Backpack of Rocks: [32:24 – 34:26]
• Family Pushback and Second Autopsy: [34:26 – 40:29]
• Official Statements & Disconnects: [40:29 – 43:17]
• Family Frustrations & Petition: [44:12 – 45:52]
• Discussion of Hazing / Cover-Up Possibility: [50:50 – 54:24]
• Final Thoughts: [56:03 – 56:44]

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Tone and Style

The hosts maintain their signature blend of empathy, seriousness, and lightheartedness (often playfully ribbing one another), but treat the Smedley case and its unknowns with respect and gravity. They constantly reference the need to consider all options, expressing frustration—shared by many listeners—over the case's quick closure and lingering mysteries.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Joseph Smedley’s death remains controversial and mysterious, with strong evidence that “suicide” may not be the whole story.
• Family, especially sister Vivian, continues to fight for answers, facing bureaucratic and procedural barriers.
• Key anomalies—cryptic communications, forensic oddities, lack of plausible motive or method—suggest the need for renewed investigation or at least greater transparency.
• The Smedley case is an illustration of how ruling a death as “suicide” can effectively halt deeper inquiry, sometimes to the frustration of families and the public.

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Petition for Joseph
Listeners wishing to support the family's call for further investigation can find more at the "Justice for Joseph" petition on Change.org (now with over 124,000 signatures) [54:24].

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Final Host Reflection:
"It is a very mysterious death...and I hope they do [look into it further] at some point." – Mike Ferguson [56:44]

Transcript

[Mike Gibson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Caller]

Sam.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 407 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey. I'm doing okay. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You and I just finished up recording our TCAT episode. It was kind of a different one. It was, you know, it's on this guy named Richard Glossip who. Who has spent, you know, decades on death row in Oklahoma for a murder. But there are a lot of people who believe he's innocent. He's claimed as innocent.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm not just talking about people online. No, I mean, these are like the Attorney General. Lawmakers in the state are not convinced that he should be put to death.

[Mike Gibson]

It's. It's a. It's a good lesson. Go out and listen to it and see where you sit on it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. Let's go ahead and do our Patreon shout outs. We had Billy Hammett.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Hammett.

[Mike Ferguson]

Holly Levitt.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, Lovett?

[Mike Ferguson]

Holly.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a Holly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jermaine Robertson.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Robertson?

[Mike Ferguson]

Lissy Johnson.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Johnson.

[Mike Ferguson]

Stephanie Keel.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, awesome. Keel.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nino Reyes.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, Reyes?

[Mike Ferguson]

Ben Kirk.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Captain Kirk.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jamie Miller.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Miller.

[Mike Ferguson]

Bridget Hester.

[Mike Gibson]

Esther in the house.

[Mike Ferguson]

Samantha Wamsley.

[Mike Gibson]

There's the Walmsley.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Allison Hemlet.

[Mike Gibson]

Hemlin.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hemlin. So we appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Simon Brunt.

[Mike Gibson]

Brunt of it.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you know, his first name, Simon, elicited kind of a long discussion on Patreon.

[Mike Gibson]

You had to go down a rabbit.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hole and went down it incorrectly.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

You did badly. It was not good. But if anybody wants to hear me be about as wrong as I can be, it's on Patreon.

[Mike Gibson]

It really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right now.

[Mike Gibson]

Unless you. Unless between now and the time it goes out.

[Mike Ferguson]

I edited out.

[Mike Gibson]

You edited.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I'm not. I'll leave it in there. I don't have a problem with being wrong. I was definitely wrong. All right, buddy, you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsolved.

[Mike Gibson]

I am ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the mysterious death of Joseph Smedley. Joseph smedley was a 20 year old student at Indiana University who died under mysterious circumstances. His death was officially declared a suicide, but his family has questioned this rule and we have done at least a few cases that kind of run along this same line. We have someone dies, the authorities believe it is a suicide. They rule it that way and the family says no, no, we just don't believe that's what happened. Yeah. Joseph Smedley grew up in Indianapolis, Indiana. His family described him as upbeat and a jokester. They recalled how he liked playing pranks on them and practicing wrestling moves on his sister.

[Mike Gibson]

Fellow wrestler.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you and your brothers like to wrestle. I don't know why you put on the singlets while you were just wrestling around in the house.

[Mike Gibson]

But it allowed you to make the best move possible.

[Mike Ferguson]

Grab someone by their trunks and yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

It also protected certain things.

[Mike Ferguson]

It protects nothing and it hides nothing. That's what I don't like about the singlet.

[Mike Gibson]

Definitely doesn't hide anything. It's like, ah, well.

[Mike Ferguson]

We see what you've got. Joseph's father, Joseph Smedley Sr. Wrote in a statement published by wthr. Joseph has always been multi talented. He attended preschool in kindergarten at the Orchard School in Indianapolis. He's always been a good and responsible student. When he got his first pair of glasses, we referred to him as the little professor.

[Mike Gibson]

How about that? I was never referred to as a little professor when I got my first pair of glasses.

[Mike Ferguson]

Joseph attended the Oaks Academy where he excelled in math and reading. His hobby then was martial arts, probably because he enjoyed the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. At nine years old, he was presented with a yellow belt and certificate from Gospel Martial Arts Union Junior Kai program where he received simultaneous training in mental, physical and spiritual discipline. He received training under executive director master instructor Koshi Johnny Russell Jr. Who was a seventh degree black belt. Joseph also played on the soccer team for the Old north side neighborhood in Indianapolis. He attended Craig Middle School where he became interested in band. Joseph chose to play the trombone.

[Mike Gibson]

And I remember when I got my seventh degree belt was not easy, you know, but so interesting.

[Mike Ferguson]

He's pretty well rounded though. I mean, I wonder how many kids got into martial arts because of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[Mike Gibson]

Probably a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

They, they were big, them in the power Rangers and the Power Rangers.

[Mike Gibson]

I know you're pretty good with a trombone.

[Mike Ferguson]

I played the trumpet, sir, when I was a little kid.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then I was focused on sports, so I didn't play the. I wasn't in the band in high school, but I was in the band when I was younger. But I think I've told this story before. My youngest daughter is a black belt in taekwondo and. And she went through that for years and years and I. I think it was very valuable to her.

[Mike Gibson]

A lot of discipline, things that you learn. Yeah, that's how, like I said again, I broke past the seventh degree.

[Mike Ferguson]

Uh huh. You know, now passed it to the eighth.

[Mike Gibson]

I did. Now, it was not your typical training.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it was online, so it was.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it was my own sensei.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was probably hard because it was a mail order taekwondo class.

[Mike Gibson]

I had to take lessons for myself.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it was also about this time that he took an interest in cooking. He was soon asking for cookbooks and began cooking special recipes for the family. He so impressed a friend of his father's that the friend purchased the chef's jacket and hat. Chef Joseph was inscribed on the jacket. So yeah, this kid was very well rounded. Sounds like you just can't say anything other than that. Joseph went to Lawrence Central High School, where he continued in band. He soon specialized in the jazz band and participated in numerous concerts, including solos. The jazz band recorded at least one cd. In addition to band, Joseph became a wrestler. He began wrestling varsity during his sophomore year. He was also an excellent swimmer. Like most teens, Joseph liked game systems and technology. And it was pretty soon that his technical knowledge exceeded that of his dad. Dad swallowed his ego and sought Joseph's advice when he encountered a technical problem with his phone or computer. So, as so often happens, Gibbs, as we're telling you know, these stories, I find similarities between people we talk about in you.

[Mike Gibson]

It happens.

[Mike Ferguson]

You also love to cook. You don't like to buy or pay for meals, but you like to cook.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You did wrestle.

[Mike Gibson]

I did.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're also an excellent swimmer.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, just give me a pair of goggles and set me free now. I prefer those things on my arms, the floaties. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Helps out. But the other thing I will say, I think it's pretty common, right, for kids at some point to surpass their parents in when it comes to, like, technology.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not every kid, but a lot of kids. I know my dad's always calling me for advice about his phone, his computer. Now he's in his 70s, but yes.

[Mike Gibson]

You Know, I just remember my mom and my dad when they were both were alive, they thought I was a. Just a genius. Yeah. Because I could figure out how to do certain things on their computer or. Or I found a way to get the remote on the TV to work again. I'm like, yes, yes, I am a genius.

[Mike Ferguson]

As a low bar. They had a low bar when it came to what astonished them about.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

His dad said Joseph was simultaneously both a great little brother to his older sister and older brother and great big brother to his younger sister who looks up to him and adores him. We will always love and miss him.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like a great kid.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think he was a great kid. And it's very clear from the statement that Joseph's family loved him. But he did experience some challenging times with his family as a child and teenager. His parents divorced when he was in the third grade, which was difficult for him. I think it's difficult for most kids. His mother moved to St. Thomas. Joseph lived with her for a while, but their relationship soured, according to his sister Vivian, and he decided to move back home. Vivian said that Joseph and his father went through a challenging time trying to get him re established at home. His father remarried and it was implied that the kids didn't get along with his wife. And you and I have talked about that before. You know, when somebody gets remarried, a parent gets remarried. Stepfather, stepmother. You know, that's not an easy gig.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not for everybody involved.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And it can be tough kind of establishing that relationship, getting it to flourish. Now once you can get there. A lot of people have great relationships, but sometimes it's really tough to get it to that point.

[Mike Gibson]

Some people never get there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, some people don't. In 2012, at the age of 16, Joseph became an emancipated minor and moved in with a close friend to finish high school. Okay, you've heard about that a lot of times with child actors.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think we hear about it a lot in the stories that we do. So I don't know how often it happens, but it does happen. In 2014, Joseph enrolled at Indiana University Bloomington. He majored in biochemistry. And I don't know a lot about Indiana University. It's not that far from us.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it's what, an hour and a half?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Other than, you know, they've known for their basketball teams over the years. And Bobby Knight.

[Mike Gibson]

Bobby Knight. Throwing the chair.

[Mike Ferguson]

Throwing the chair. Choking players.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Buddy. One championship he did.

[Mike Gibson]

Before that, their football team's Been a little bit better.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. Recently, Vivian was happy for her brother. Joseph seemed to flourish in a college environment where, you know, he still had structure, but he could spend time with friends and had more independence. And who doesn't love that college environment? I know my kids are loving it right now because they're flourishing.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they're getting some independence. They're also spending quite a bit of my money. So I'm not loving it as much. No, they're. They're doing great.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

To go to college, it's. It's always feels good because you're on your own.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. College was a great time and I think it is a great time for, for many kids. Most of us are still supported to some degree.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

By your parents, but you've got a lot of independence and, you know, they're not there with you. So you're allowed or able to do some things you wouldn't be able to do exactly. When you were back at home, like drink a whole bottle of Mezcal and, you know, things like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm not saying, you know, that was you, that was me, or anything, and eat the worm. Joseph was estranged from his father, but he had contact with Vivian almost every day. And she kept their father updated on what he was doing. So obviously, you know, his relationship with his dad had soured, but his relationship with his sister must have still been really good. You know, he was contacting her. During his second semester of freshman year, Joseph decided to join the Sigma PI fraternity at iu. His family was surprised by his decision. Vivian said in her interview for the show, still a Mystery, that she is not a fan of fraternities. Joseph Sr. Was also upset because that particular fraternity had a bad reputation on campus at that time. Joseph spent the summer of 2015 living off campus with friends. Just before the start of his sophomore year, he moved into a house with two fraternity brothers. And he was really excited about this new living situation, I think you weren't a fraternity.

[Mike Gibson]

Weren't you with some guy named Old Blue?

[Mike Ferguson]

Blue.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Blue is my boy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

On September 21, 2015, Vivian received the call from Joseph's former landlord. She co signed his lease and the landlord was calling her to inform her that Joseph owed a $680 fee for terminating his lease early. The landlord gave him one week to pay the balance. Joseph told Vivian he had checks from one of his summer jobs that he hadn't picked up yet, so he would pay the fee with those. He planned to drop a check off to the landlord on September 28. On September 27, 2015, Vivian reminded Joseph that he needed to pay the fee by noon the following day. He reassured her that he had the check on his desk and would drop it off tomorrow. Joseph was last seen alive by his roommates that evening around 11:30pm At 4:15am on September 28, Vivianne received a strange text from Joseph. And it said, per wrtv, Viv, I love you. I'm leaving the country by not telling you why. I'm keeping you safe and protected. Please don't try to contact me at this number. It won't work. I'll contact you once I'm set up overseas. Thank you for everything, Viv. I love you and I'm sorry.

[Mike Gibson]

Be a strange text to get anytime during the day, but especially at 4:00am.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, kind of ominous stuff we get, all of us how many texts a day? Most of them are benign. Yeah, they don't really mean anything. Half of them are unnecessary, or in my case, 90% of them are unnecessary.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But getting something like this from a loved one, basically saying, I'm leaving the country and I'm keeping you safe by not telling you why.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's very mysterious, but also a little ominous. Vivianne assumed that this was a joke and responded, lol, shut up. Make sure you pay that apartment.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, she probably thought, ah, he's just playing a joke on me, saying something stupid.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, we said early on, right, he was a prankster and maybe that played into her thoughts. She explained that she didn't take him seriously because he had a history of doing things that he thought were funny but were not funny to others. Joseph didn't have a passport, so it wouldn't be possible for him to fly outside the country on such short notice. So either he's messing around, playing around, or could it be that someone else is sending these texts not knowing that he didn't have a passport?

[Mike Gibson]

Could have been.

[Mike Ferguson]

She tried to call him that morning, but all of her calls went to voicemail. She started to worry around noon when she called Joseph's old apartment complex to ask if he stopped by. They said no. That afternoon she called the university police and asked them to do a welfare check. The IU Bloomington police did a welfare check and discovered Joseph had not attended classes that day and wasn't at home. All his belongings were in his room except for his backpack. His check that he was supposed to take to the landlord was still on his desk. Joseph's cell phone was not in his room, which Indicated he took it with him when he left. Joseph did leave behind a handwritten note that said had to leave country. Don't try to contact me by a cell. It won't work. We'll contact you once set up overseas. The note was signed Smedly, which was unusual because Joseph never went by his last name.

[Mike Gibson]

The whole thing sounds unusual.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it sounds almost verbatim to what he texted his sister.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you know, a lot of people, you and I sometimes, especially on the show, go by our last names or nicknames. Somebody. Some people go by their last names exclusively.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Some people never do. It would be strange to see a note signed Smedley when Joseph never would have done that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, if you're leaving a note like that, I'm assuming you're leaving it to your loved ones, your family or.

[Mike Ferguson]

Friends or people you know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, the other thing that was strange was that the Note was dated 9:28. His family questioned why he would write this date if he supposedly left on the 27th.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe he had the wrong date in his head. Or maybe the person that actually wrote the note, if it wasn't him, didn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

Write it till the 28th. Yeah, they definitely did not believe Joseph wrote the note. He had neat handwriting and the handwriting on the note was messy. Vivianne told wthr, the detective sent me the letter so I can see what it looks like. And it's not his handwriting. She asked the police to do a handwriting analysis, which later came back inconclusive.

[Mike Gibson]

Even with them saying that, I'm sure Vivian's like, it's not his handwriting. I know my brother's handwriting.

[Mike Ferguson]

Vivianne was slightly relieved later that afternoon when the police called her and said Joseph was in jail. She was confused because she never thought he would be arrested for anything. She asked several people to call the jail, and they were informed Joseph Smedley was not in custody. The IU police followed up and confirmed there was a mix up. The man in custody was named Jonathan Smith Smedley. Wow.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a. It's a mess up. It's unfortunate, but when you're scared about where the heck my brother is and you're like, oh, at least they found him. Now I'll get him out of jail to find out it's not really even him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So now you're back to being very, very worried. Sure. On September 29th, Joseph was officially declared a missing person. It was at that point that Vivian started to think Joseph didn't send the text either.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

She already Thought that he didn't write the note. So I think it would be natural, Gibbs, because the note contained the same language that was in the text. If he didn't write the note, well, then he probably didn't send the text.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

She went on to Joseph's Instagram and Facebook and looked at his recent tag post so she could try to find information on his last movements. She talked to his roommates, who said they were at home watching TV, and they all went to bed around 11 to 11:30pm on Sunday the 27th. She then hacked into Joseph's groupmeet and learned he was using it to chat with the fraternity brothers in his pledge class. People in the chat told Joseph they were going to tell others he wasn't actually part of the fraternity because he hadn't paid his dues yet. Vivianne went over to the frat house, but she said they were closed off. When she spoke to the president, he referred her back to Joseph's roommates who were interviewed by police and cooperated with the investigation. So, you know, I want to go back to this group chat and, you know, some of his fraternity brother saying that they were going to tell people he wasn't actually part of the fraternity because he hadn't paid his dues yet.

[Mike Gibson]

Tried to embarrass him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, could that be a catalyst for something? I mean, it doesn't seem like that much of a big deal, but, you know, when you're that age, it's hard to tell what's going to be a big deal to someone.

[Mike Gibson]

But could it also lead to some type of confrontation that then turned deadly? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it could be. Several days later, the police confirmed Joseph had not withdrawn or deposited any money. There was no evidence he booked a trip anywhere. So if you're going back to the text and letter, I'm traveling overseas, don't try to contact me. And all of this. Well, the evidence doesn't seem to support that.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's not much of anything in the way of activity on his bank accounts. They can't find where he's booked a trip. So it's not lining up. No, doesn't line up. Investigators tracked his phone signal and discovered his phone pinged at several locations on the day he went missing. The first ping was at 4:15 in downtown Bloomington off 7th in Walnut. About 30 minutes later, there was another ping near Griffey Lake. At 6:30am there was another ping off State Road 37. This highway runs just north of Griffey Lake. Scent tracking dogs turned up no Sign Joseph was in the area where his self signal was located. All right, so what do you make of that?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, it sounds like his cell phone was in the area, but he wasn't there. So who has his cell phone?

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe somebody who did him harm or something to that effect. The data show Joseph left the house after his roommates thought he went to bed. And it was said that these three locations, they're not very close, they're not walking distance, and Joseph didn't have a working car at this time. So his family thinks someone might have driven him there. And that's if he was even there physically.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, I guess if he was in the car, never got out of the car, maybe the dogs wouldn't pick up the scent.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that could be. There were rumors Joseph was seen downtown with his frat brothers, but when the family asked the police about it, they said that they weren't aware of anyone who saw him out that night. Vivian also told WTHR that Joseph's phone was turned off sometime on the night of September 27th near several popular off campus hangouts. She said police had searched locations. From the text message he sent me at 4am the location was 7th and Walnut before the phone turned off. So, I mean, Gibbs, if you look at the cell phone data that police had, they could track the phone. And like you said, all you can tell is that the phone was in these locations. It doesn't mean he was there. No, for sure. But I want to, you know, talk about the phone being turned off. You know, you have a young man here. How many young people actually turn their phones off? And I would say not many.

[Mike Gibson]

I would agree with. It's a strange thing to do. Unless there's a reason behind.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if so, what would that reason be? I mean, most kids that age and even younger, they're glued to their phone.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

They can't keep their face out of their phones for fear that they might miss something.

[Mike Gibson]

If their phone turns off, it's not because it was something they did. It was because it probably ran out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Of charge from scrolling Facebook, Instagram, Tik tok.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe they were on Gibby Graham. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

They could have been. But I do think that the phone being turned off could be a very important clue. I just don't know yet what to make of it. On October 2, 2015, a fisherman on Griffey Lake near the Headley Road Bridge found a decomposed male body with binoculars tied around the neck. The Bloomington police confirmed the body found in the lake was an unidentified male. And the coroner confirmed foul play was not suspected. But I will say this. You know, the sources that we went through, they didn't say how tightly the binoculars were tied around the neck. But you'd have to assume based on the statement that no foul play was suspected, that it's pretty safe to say that they had to be somewhat loose. Right. They're not thinking that he was strangled with these binoculars. But then you have to ask why? Why has he got binoculars around his.

[Mike Gibson]

Neck at 4 o' clock or whatever.

[Mike Ferguson]

Time in the morning on October 3, 2015, Monroe County Coroner Nicole Meyer confirmed the body found at Griffey Lake was missing IU student Joseph Smedley. His cause of death was consistent with drowning, and once again, no foul play was suspected. Pending toxicology tests. Joseph's body was found in the lake just east of old State Road 37, where his phone pinged about three and a half miles north of downtown Bloomington. Joseph's family told the media that he was a strong swimmer.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

We talked about it earlier. Growing up, he was a swimmer. He was good at it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, it doesn't mean that strong swimmers can't drown.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. Especially if, you know, I mean, obviously we haven't talked about any toxicology or things like that, but, you know, if you've been drinking, it's car. It's harder to swim. There's other reasons, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you would have to agree you got a better chance of not drowning.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you're a strong swimmer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

As opposed to a person who can't swim at all.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Adding further mystery to the case, IU spokesman Mark Land revealed that Joseph was enrolled but had not been attending classes since the start of the fall semester.

[Mike Gibson]

Now that is a big mystery. Why aren't you going to class? What are you doing during the day?

[Mike Ferguson]

Or what are you doing at night that's not allowing you to get up the next day or you're sleeping all day or. Yeah, just. What's going on? We don't know. Vivian released a statement through her attorney. It read, we're heartbroken by this morning's developments and still processing the events of the last six days. Joseph was an intelligent and loving son, brother and friend.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I'm sure the family was devastated.

[Mike Ferguson]

Joseph's parents also issued a statement through their spokesperson. It read, we would like to thank the media and public for their continuing coverage of helping us find our beloved Joseph. It's been a difficult week for our family. After hearing the developments, we ask that you let our family grieve in private so we can begin the healing process. Your thoughts and prayers would be greatly appreciated. So the one thing that I thought was strange here is that, you know, Vivian put out a separate statement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they're not really united.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, it doesn't seem like it. You would think the family would come together as a unit and release one statement, but that's not how it happened. I mean, even if there was turmoil, even if there was conflict going on, you would think something like this.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Finding out that your son, your brother, is dead, would bring everybody together. So that did jump out to me.

[Mike Gibson]

Makes you wonder what's going on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. That she released a completely separate statement through her attorney. On October 10, 2015, a memorial service was held for Joseph at his old high school. His father, Joseph Sr. Told the people gathered per Wish tv. We will never know the contribution Joseph was going to make to society. He has a great mind and spirit. And that is the sad thing. You and I talk about it so very often. When a young person is killed or dies, there's always that thought of, number one. Obviously, they died way too young, but number two, what would their life have been? What would they have gone on to do? That has to be tough for the family as well, because you're thinking about birthdays, you're thinking about weddings, you're thinking about children, holidays. And there's always something coming up that would remind you of them and also what they would be doing right now. I just can't imagine the agony that some of these families go through.

[Mike Gibson]

And we know, you know, Joseph had a lot of potential.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. Which does kind of deepen the mystery of why he wasn't going to clap. Yeah. This was not a kid, it seemed like, who was, you know, just about blowing things off. He seemed to be responsible. He seemed to be ambitious. Was there something else going on in his life that was, you know, kind of overriding the whole going to class thing?

[Mike Gibson]

And you have to say, probably right. I mean, there's. There's a reason why you're not going to class.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's something. On December 4, 2015, the completed autopsy was revealed with a shocking cause and manner of death. Suicide by drowning. Joseph's autopsy report showed he had THC and alcohol in his system. His body had been weighed down with a backpack full of 66 pounds of rocks.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that changes things.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Things got very strange very quickly.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes. If you have a backpack on. Look, I mean, we've. We've all done. I say we all. I know people have done this when they're training, you know, they'll put a backpack on. They might put £50, £60 in it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

However they do it, you know, just.

[Mike Ferguson]

To get more resistance.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right.

[Mike Gibson]

But I don't know who's going to do that. 4 o', clock, 5 o', clock, whatever time in the morning while you're out drinking, you're going to throw on a backpack with rocks in them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well. And I think that is what led them to conclude that this was a suicide by drowning. But when you think about suicide, that seems like a very uncommon way to take your own life.

[Mike Gibson]

But you could also say, did somebody place that bag on him?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Throw him, incapacitate him, Throw him in the water. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of different avenues to explore around this, but if you're just looking at the information that. Let's say the medical examiner has. All right, he was smoking marijuana. Right. He's got thc. He was drinking. Well, let's face it, most kids at college probably have both THC and alcohol in their system at different times of the week.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes. That's not out of the ordinary.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, not for many. But if that's all they have to go on. And he's wearing a backpack full of what is a pretty heavy weight of rocks. I can see why they. They came to that conclusion. Now, you and I talk about this. Would it be better to not make such a definitive declaration and maybe leave this a little bit undetermined or something like that?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, if we can sit here and easily say it could be this or that or this and this. How can you jump to suicide so quickly?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know how you can definitively say it. I get it. It looks like that Vivian told Still a mystery that the police did not initially tell her this information. According to that episode, different reports refer to the items in the backpack as either bricks or rocks. And I don't know if it matters, but if it's 66 pounds of either, yeah, it's a heavy weight.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, it's going to help you sink in water. Right. That amount of weight. Vivian does not have exact details because the police won't release certain case information to her.

[Mike Gibson]

I just think about that weight and I just. Even if, let's say you want it to do this, once you went under and you started struggling, I think it'd be too easy for you to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ahead and slip the backpack off.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I was thinking that too.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Because it's just going to be natural for your body to kick into that mode. And I don't know if many people are strong enough to fight that.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's going to be a survival instinct. Yeah. To shed that backpack and try to swim up. You would think.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, if you're thrown in unconscious, you don't know it's on you. And by the time the water hits you, if it even wakes you at that point, you don't even know what's on your back because you didn't put it there. And you're not gonna probably be able to shake it off you because you don't realize it's on you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. No, I get what you're saying, but do you think it's strange that the police won't release certain information to the family?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think it's strange. Why not?

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not a murder investigation if you.

[Mike Gibson]

Believe what you say happened and release the information.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I thought maybe that was a little strange. Vivian was devastated and confused by the determination. Joseph gave no indication he was depressed or suicidal and he was making plans for the future. For example, Joseph invited a female friend to hang out with him in early October. Another question she had was where Joseph would find 66 pounds of rocks. There were no large rocks around Griffey Lake. Vivian said she went to the lake and tried to collect 66 pounds of rocks by herself, but she couldn't find enough.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. So did he find them somewhere else and brought the backpack with him, lugging.

[Mike Ferguson]

It around, or did somebody else have 66 pounds of rocks?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Load the backpack. You know, like I said, Bloomington's not that far from us. Most of the lakes around here that I've been to, they don't have a ton of big rocks.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

On the shoreline, they don't.

[Mike Gibson]

Kind of just goes grass or filled right into the lake. The lake.

[Mike Ferguson]

In order for the suicide by drowning theory to work, Joseph would had to have walked 45 minutes from his home, load up a backpack full of rocks at Griffey Lake, and step off a short bridge into the shallow water, which was said to have only been five feet deep.

[Mike Gibson]

That's another problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is a problem because Joseph was 5 foot 7. He wasn't super tall, but he was tall enough that he could have stood up in the lake.

[Mike Gibson]

And again, go to survival instincts. You're probably going to try to stand up. And I don't know if £66 is going to be enough to hold somebody down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think it would be if you had some depth to the water, and you weren't in a position to just take the backpack off.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But the fact that you can stand up in the water and you can take the backpack off, like you said, that would take a lot to be able to fight that instinct to survive.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, I mean, I think you can see here why so many people look at this as being a very mysterious death. Additionally, Joseph's phone was not found with his body, and it was found during a second sweep of the area. And this has led to the question, did the phone enter the water at a different time than Joseph?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, and if so, how and why?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you know, was it that somebody realized that, oh, his phone needed to be with the body, so they went back and threw it in, tossed it in. In early 2016, Vivian hired a forensic pathologist and filed a formal complaint alleging the police were hindering the private investigation by not releasing case information. She had a second autopsy done, and the new report was sent to the forensic pathologist she hired who found the discrepancy from the first autopsy. There were two deep intramuscular hematomas, or bruises, on Joseph's back. The pathologist could not complete the report because the Bloomington PD refused to send photos of the original scene. However, the pathologist did tell the family he was leaning towards accidental or undetermined for the manner of death and not suicide.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, those bruises on his back, what, it could have been a few things, right? He could have been hit hard by some type of object. Could have been the backpack with all the rocks on it when he hit.

[Mike Ferguson]

The bottom of the lake.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but if you're not going to show us the photo of the crime scene so we could determine what that surface looked like, we can't match that up to the bruises.

[Mike Ferguson]

The Bloomington PD issued a press statement about the death investigation, which was published by the Herald Times. It read, On December 3, 2015, the Bloomington Police Department and the Monroe county coroner shared the findings of the investigation with Joseph Smedley's father, who was determined to be the appropriate next of kin and established point of contact for the immediate family. BPD made the commitment to keep working with Joseph's father in an effort to answer additional questions they might have regarding the circumstances surrounding his death. That commitment has, in fact, continued, with the most recent contact having occurred on January 11, 2016. The Monroe county coroner has ruled the death of Joseph Smedley to be a suicide by drowning. Rulings of cause and manner of death are the responsibility of coroners and not that of law. Enforcement. While those conclusions can be determined through joint investigations between law enforcement and the coroner, the Bloomington Police Department has not been asked to provide any further investigative assistance at this time. Okay, I know that was a lot, but I wanted to read that in its entirety. So there's two things that jump out at me. One is that they are saying that they were working with Joseph's father.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But we talked about Vivian. Sure.

[Mike Gibson]

We have.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hiring a forensic pathology, asking for a second autopsy. So, again, is there still a disconnect between her and her dad?

[Mike Gibson]

It kind of sounds like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does sound like that.

[Mike Gibson]

And a disconnect between the police department and Vivian.

[Mike Ferguson]

But are they giving the information to her dad and those two aren't communicating? I don't know. It didn't say that, but you can kind of draw that inference.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And I think that's what they wanted.

[Mike Ferguson]

It may be correct, it may not be correct.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's what the police was trying to say. They're talking to Joseph's dad, and if the dad is not relaying the information on to Vivian, that's not on them. They have one point of contact, and that's what they're utilizing.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then the second thing that I thought was important was that they were saying, hey, you know, it's not our responsibility. It's up to the coroner. Right. To determine cause and manner of death. Which is correct. But they came out and added that they had not been asked to provide any further investigative assistance at this time, which tells me the coroner didn't need.

[Mike Gibson]

Or want any clarification that they felt confident with their.

[Mike Ferguson]

With their ruling. It's not like they were going back and forth and wanted further information from the police. In October 2016, supporters gathered at IU's Neil Marshall Black Culture Center Library to show that Joseph had not been forgotten. Vivian expressed her frustration that she was still not able to access documents from the coroner's office to finish her private investigation. She told the Herald Times, I'm doing this because Joseph deserves better. Joseph deserves justice. And, you know, you feel for the family, but I really feel for Vivian here. It sounds like she is trying so hard to get to the bottom of this because she loves her brother.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Mike Ferguson]

They were super close, and she's having a hard time doing that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In June 2020, Joseph's family launched an online petition seeking a new death investigation. Joseph's father spoke to wthr, asking, does it make sense to you that somebody that supposedly wants to commit suicide would roam around in the woods in the dark. Put a backpack on, pick up rocks to weigh themselves down, and then jump off into a lake that has an average depth of three feet.

[Mike Gibson]

I think he said it perfectly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the answer is no.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

That does not make sense to me. Now. Does that mean it couldn't have happened? No, I don't think it means that. It just doesn't seem likely.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Logic is not there.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. You know, as we talk about that plausibility meter, where does it rate? And for me, it rates very low on my plausibility meter. Yeah. If there was somebody, let's say Joseph Smedley, who was intent on taking their own life, walking around in the dark, trying to find rocks to fill up your backpack to jump into a lake that is three to five feet deep, it just doesn't sound like sound thinking whatsoever. Now, maybe he's not thinking soundly, but.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, what it does sound like to me is if somebody wanted to hide a body three to five feet, if you put a backpack on with 60 plus pounds in, it would do the job.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know if it would hide the body forever, because, let's face it, you could probably see the body depending on location, the clarity of the lake and all that. But if you wanted people to think it was a suicide, maybe that's a way to do it. Vivian told the outlet, every specialist I've reached out to said the same thing. They don't understand why it's a suicide. And I think you and I are struggling with that. I think a lot of people listening are going to struggle with that determination. Why suicide versus undetermined? Because there does seem to be some uncertainty here.

[Mike Gibson]

There does.

[Mike Ferguson]

In making that ruling, suicide by drowning. There's a lot of finality there. There doesn't seem to be a lot of finality in this case. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty. So to me, undetermined seems to make much more sense. Vivian added, the last people who he was with was his fraternity brother. So I definitely believe that they know something. She said later in the interview. It could have potentially been accidental. It could have been anything. It's the fact that the police department is not willing to look into that. But again, as we talk about why would the police not look into it?

[Mike Gibson]

If the medical examiner says it's suicide, they have nothing to look into.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no crime.

[Mike Gibson]

There's no crime.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right, Exactly. To investigate.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

And this comes up in many, many cases. Now, if it was undetermined, maybe there would be an investigation. And I think that's why you know this These rulings are so important. Over 80,000 people signed the petition. By July 2020, Joseph's case received renewed attention amid protests over the deaths of black Americans. Some speculated that Joseph's case was another investigation that was quickly swept under the rug. Vivian told WRTV Joseph was treated like a suicide the moment he was pulled out of the water. She accused the police of hindering the private investigation by not releasing case information to her private pathologist, saying, we've not filed an affidavit due to the fact that BPD refuses to cooperate with Our forensic pathologist, Dr. Thomas Sozio, who was hired to complete a second autopsy. Dr. Sozio said he's reached out to them multiple times and they will not provide the information needed to complete his report.

[Mike Gibson]

And I don't know why that would be.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't either. She mentioned that the FBI had taken a look into the case and did not rule out homicide. She wants them to be involved again due to BPD's lack of cooperation and poor procedures.

[Mike Gibson]

There's typically a reason why you don't want to cooperate, Right. Either something wasn't handled correctly and you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Don'T want that to come to light.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Or procedurally, it's just not something you feel like you need to do. But wouldn't you relay that to who's ever asking?

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, you understand when there's an open investigation, right, the police can only give out so much information, Right? There's no open investigation here.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not a criminal investigation at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

So is there a reason why they have to hold certain things back? I don't know. Maybe there is, and I'm just not aware of it. But maybe it's more along the lines of what you were saying. But then when you think about the FBI, okay, they looked into the case, but how involved could the FBI get? I mean, it doesn't really fall under their purview. Unless it was either a kidnapping or they thought maybe it was a hate crime. Then I think it would warrant FBI involvement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it opened the door for him.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think, you know, they have a mandate, right, of certain things that they get involved in, or if they're asked to take a look, they. They can. Vivian noted there is more circumstantial evidence that suggests he did not commit suicide than that he did. He was making plans the night he disappeared. And the timeline does not add up. According to Still a mystery, in April 2021, Indiana University suspended Sigma PI Joseph's former fraternity for two years due to Hazing and violating Covid regulations. And, you know, let's go back to this fraternity, because I think, you know, Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, one thing you have to look at is hazing.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure you do. It's a big thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's been a big part of fraternities for many years. A lot of them have tried to phase it out. They've gotten in trouble on many campuses for hazing. But let's not be naive and think it still doesn't go on. Could you see some type of hazing here that went horribly wrong?

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

And a cover up in suit.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, if you're looking at all possible angles to this case, which I think you have to do, is suicide one of them. Yeah, obviously it is. But to me, it is not so clear cut that this was a suicide. And I think you have to look at the other possibilities as well. And that could be one. People are drinking, there's hazing going on as he's trying to get into this fraternity or whatever it is, and he ends up dead. And instead of placing the call to the police, people decide they don't want to get in trouble, and they cover it up and try to make it look like something else.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, when you look at the text message, the note, based on what Vivian said, it doesn't sound like how her brother would talk. Doesn't make any sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

She said it wasn't his handwriting.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And again, it was also signed not Joseph, but by Smedley. Smedley. Which is not typical for him to sign something like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. But maybe. Is that something that his fraternity brothers or some of his brothers called him?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Maybe that's all they really knew him by. Hey, Smedley's there. You know.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not saying that's what happened, but.

[Mike Gibson]

But you have to look at all angles.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I am saying that is. It is something that, you know, has to be at least a possibility.

[Mike Gibson]

And I think that's all the family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Wants, is for that investigation to. To occur.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And to really kind of dig into it a little deeper, because I do think the suicide by drowning was made pretty quickly.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I get it. On the surface, it could look like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Good.

[Mike Ferguson]

But like you and I, could someone not sit there and think, oh, this doesn't seem to make sense. Maybe it could be something else. You know, maybe we should mark it undetermined while we do, we have the police do a little more investigation. What does that Hurt.

[Mike Gibson]

Could. Could I. Back in the day, and my buddies marched you around that area in the woods with a backpack that had 66 pounds of rocks in it as an initiation. And had you do all this weird stuff, chug beers while you're doing it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Take a hit off the joint and then walk you over to the water and. And then, you know, push you down, you know, make you fall backwards. And we didn't know when you did that something bad happened. Yeah, right. And now we're like, oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or no. Or maybe it didn't even happen by the water.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it could happen somewhere else.

[Mike Ferguson]

Could have happened somewhere else. And that's where they decided to take the body. Again, I'm not laying this on the fraternity brothers, but just a lot of speculation. You know, when you're speculating about these unsolved cases, I think you have to look at a lot of different things. Things.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The justice for Joseph petition is still active on change.org and it has over 124,000 signatures. So that's a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

And there's a lot of people, I think, that, you know, think this case is mysterious, still needs to be looked into. Not all the. The facts have come out, and there's probably why they're signing the petition. But as of 2025, at least at the time that we're recording this episode, Joseph's cause and manner of death are still suicide by drowning, and the case has not been reopened. And I don't think it will be reopened as long as the cause and manner of death remain suicide by drowning.

[Mike Gibson]

I agree with you. Until they change that, which will allow the police to then investigate, it's going to remain the way it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. It's not the first case that we've seen that's kind of gone along that similar path. A fairly quick suicide determination, which essentially kind of shuts down most of, if not all, police involvement, slash, investigation. And they got other cases to work on.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

So there's no rush or really any impetus to do anything on the Joseph Smedley case because it's not a case. It's not a case to them. It's frustrating, though. It's frustrating for us. Imagine the family.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, of course. Yeah. Being the dad, the mom, the sister, brother. Yeah, Absolutely. Would drive you crazy.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I feel bad for them. Not only, you know, for the. The grief, the loss, but also what must be a very helpless feeling, wanting to get something done but not being able to make it happen because, you know, it's. There's a bureaucracy involved that sometimes you just can't get past. But that's it for our episode on the mysterious death of Joseph Smedley. And I do think it is a very mysterious death.

[Mike Gibson]

Definitely some unanswered questions that deserves a.

[Mike Ferguson]

Little more looking into. And I. And I hope they do at some point. Yeah, we got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear them.

[Caller]

Well, I'm sitting in traffic like we're going like one half of a mile an hour. Anyway, listen to the story about the three girls and Gibby. He just gave away the movie Castaway and I haven't seen it yet, so now I don't want to watch it because, Kevin, Helen Hunt doesn't wait for Tom Hanks. There is your did it or he's done it. Thanks a lot, Gibby.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it's only been out there for 20 years.

[Mike Ferguson]

She never fails to crack me up, though, I'll tell you that. First of all, I don't think I've ever gone half a mile an hour. I don't know how you measure that.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't either.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think my car goes in half miles an hour. But I agree with you. You know, it's different if the movie just came out. But if you haven't seen Castaway by now, that's on you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Helen Hunt does not wait for Tom Hanks.

[Mike Gibson]

She does it.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's so wrong, as sad as it is.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's married and has some kids.

[Caller]

Ashley from Batavia. I was watching listening to the Joanne Romaine disappear from her church and police's investigation was horrendous and faulty and all that. But I was listening to the part where she lost contact or was on bad terms with some of her siblings because of the inheritance and stuff. And I have an uncle that we do not speak to because after my maternal grandparents passed, he flipped a switch real quick and tried to accuse my mother of let him manipulating them and taking what she could and whatever, even though the will was strictly stated as everything was going to be split 100% even, except for the house. Because when my maternal grandmother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, we moved in and we started doing renovations and we were, you know, living there full time to take care of her and my grandfather because he had had two strokes, so he wasn't mobile very well. But just to keep like lawyer prices and stuff, like, you know, not having to deal with all that, we essentially gave up the entire inheritance other than, I think, the sale of her car. My grandma's car. Well, yeah. Death can ruin a lot of families. It's. It's a little sad. What changes people. Keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Greed can do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Money, greed. Yeah. Can change people. We also know it's a motive for murder, because we do. Comes up time and time again on tcat. But it is sad because you have families that are ruined. Split.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Over what? Some money.

[Mike Gibson]

Focusing on the wrong thing at that time. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Gibson]

You just lost a loved one. Focus in on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I hate to hear that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, do, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it, Gibbs, for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Caller]

It.