Kevin Verville Jr.

Summary

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True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode 473: The Disappearance of Kevin Verville Jr.

Release Date: July 13, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson (“Mike”) and Mike Gibson (“Gibby”)

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Overview

This episode delves into the 1980 abduction of newborn Kevin Verville Jr. from Oceanside, California, a case that remains unsolved over 40 years later. The hosts discuss the details of the abduction, the impact on the Verville family, investigative efforts, and renewed hope thanks to modern technology and media exposure. The episode is timely, coming after the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) released an age-progressed photo of Kevin, aiming to reignite public awareness and potentially solve the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Case Summary

• Tonal Note: The hosts balance empathy with the family’s plight alongside their usual banter and lighthearted moments.
• Case Uniqueness: “It's kind of a departure from many of the unsolved episodes that we do. A lot of times we're talking about young people, but not babies. He was not even a baby. He was a newborn days old.” (Mike, 03:27)

The Verville Family and the Beginning

• Background: Kevin Jr. was born June 14, 1980, at Camp Pendleton to Kevin Sr. (Marine) and Angelina (Filipina). They lived in military housing off-base.
• Personal Reflection: Mike and Gibby compare themselves to Marines and joke about their own inability to handle boot camp, before refocusing on the seriousness of the story.

The Abduction

• Perpetrator’s Approach:
  • Sheila, a woman claiming to be from “H.E.L.P.,” an organization for young military families, visited the Vervilles offering financial assistance.
  • She appeared trustworthy—pregnant (possibly faked), glasses, shoulder-length frizzy red or blonde hair, 5’1–5’2, 120–130 lbs, with a distinctive tattoo (a circle with an X) on her left hand.
• Execution of Crime:
  • Sheila returns, convinces Angelina to accompany her (with baby Kevin) under the pretense of collecting another mother.
  • “She drove to a spot near Guajome Regional park... Sheila asked Angelina to knock on the door to get the other mother. When Angelina got out, Sheila sped away with baby Kevin still inside the car.” (Mike, 13:45)
  • Reaction: “It seems like it would go from excitement... to absolute horror that this woman has just stolen my baby.” (Mike, 14:19)
• Aftermath:
  • Angelina, in shock, is helped by a passerby to the police.
  • Both hosts empathize deeply with the parents, comparing the feeling to even briefly losing sight of their own children.

Investigation and Challenges

• Immediate Response:
  • Nationwide alert (APB), the FBI involved after three days.
  • Canvassing by police and media. “Law enforcement and news media in San Diego county were notified, and a nationwide APB was issued...” (Mike, 16:04)
• The Ruse was Calculated:
  • Sheila had been seen “baby shopping” in the apartment complex, asking specifically for babies under six months who were half white, half Filipino—matching Kevin’s description.
• Suspect’s Planning:
  • The ruse and disguise seemed elaborate.
  • “She spent several days in the Sterling Homes apartment complex leading up to baby Kevin's abduction. She spoke to dozens of residents. Investigators suspect she was baby shopping...” (Mike, 21:50)
  • Hosts note the chilling possibility that the abductor might have spoken Tagalog and may have taken the baby to the Philippines.

Impact on the Verville Family

• Psychological Toll: Angelina was hospitalized multiple times for emotional trauma; “...there's probably not going to be a day that goes by that you don't think about what happened and you don't think about what baby Kevin is doing right now.” (Mike, 24:09)
• Family Dynamics:
  • Arguments and emotional tension over Kevin’s fate, resulting in two marriages and divorces between Kevin Sr. and Angelina.
  • “According to Kevin Senior, that would anger me. I always thought we'd find him.” (Mike, 40:18)
• Protectiveness: After having two more children, the Vervilles became extremely protective: “He explained, it's a nervousness that never goes away.” (Mike, 40:54)
• Longing: The family regularly checked babies in public, wondering if any could be Kevin.

Profiles, Media, and Investigative Stalemate

• FBI Profile: The woman likely lost a male baby recently (death or removal), may be depressed or faking pregnancy, and likely lived alone.
• Leads: Dozens of leads checked, none panned out. “We've had three or four leads that I would have bet my paycheck on, but they didn't pan out.” (FBI agent, 31:07)
• No Ransom: This wasn’t a financially-motivated kidnapping; it was “theft for personal gain”—an act to acquire a child.

Hopes for Resolution

• Role of the NCMEC:
  • Family member Angelica, inspired by true crime shows, reached out to the NCMEC in 2020, renewing hope with modern investigative tools (age-progression images, DNA).
  • “They released a new age progression image showing what Kevin Jr. might look like now in his 40s. And I would urge everyone to go out to their website, take a look at the age progress photo.” (Mike, 43:15)
• DNA and Genetic Genealogy: The FBI is using family DNA to look for matches, though it’s complicated by the potential that Kevin’s DNA is not in public or government databases.
• Special Agent's Statement:
  • “He said the FBI is looking into DNA to help identify Kevin. He noted that they submitted DNA recently to find similar matches.” (Mike, 44:56)
• Community Appeal: Angeline Hartman (NCMEC): “It’s very possible that Kevin Art Verville Jr. Is out there alive with no idea about his real identity, and we need your help to bring him home.” (Mike, 49:20)

Notable Case Details (Summary)

• Suspect: White female, early 20s (in 1980), red/blonde hair, glasses, ~5’1, pregnant (possibly faked) with a unique tattoo (circle with an X between thumb and index finger), used the name “Sheila.”
• Vehicle: Gray or silver 4-door sedan.
• Method: Posed as helper from a fake agency, lured, and isolated mother before abduction.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Although this case happened over 40 years ago, that would mean he's only in his 40s...would it be logical, Gibbs, to believe that if he's still alive and was cared for, he may have no idea who he really is and no idea that he was ever abducted as a newborn?”
  — Mike, 03:27

• “She spent several days in the Sterling Homes apartment complex leading up to baby Kevin's abduction. She spoke to dozens of residents. Investigators suspect she was baby shopping...”
  — Mike, 21:50

• “We're concerned for your welfare as well as for the welfare of Kevin and his parents. We believe you to be a caring person, one who put much thought into borrowing Kevin...”
  — Connie Tirona, Press Conference, 27:14

• “As a father, I feel like I failed to protect my family.”
  — Kevin Sr., 35:17

• “He could be your neighbor. Just look at the photo. Takes, what, 10 seconds?”
  — Mike, 50:50

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Case introduction and summary: 03:27
• Abduction details/Ruse revealed: 09:50 – 14:32
• Aftermath for mother: 14:32 – 16:04
• Investigation begins and challenges: 16:04 – 22:13
• Suspect description and "baby shopping": 21:50 – 22:13
• FBI psychological profile: 25:47 – 27:14
• Public and family appeals: 27:14 – 29:16
• Effects on the Verville family: 33:56 – 41:02
• Modern developments (NCMEC involvement, age progression): 43:12 – 44:56
• DNA and hopes for a break: 44:56 – 46:25
• Community call to action (NCMEC, press conferences): 49:20 – 53:06
• Suspect recap, reward, how the public can help: 50:55 – 53:06
• Closing reflections: 53:06 – 54:50

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Action Items & Calls to Action

• View the Age Progressed Photo: Visit the NCMEC website to see what Kevin might look like today.
• Have Information? Contact 1-800-THE-LOST or the FBI (1-800-225-5324 or tips.fbi.gov) if you have any relevant info about Kevin, the suspect, or the case.
• Host Appeal: “We’re asking everyone to be part of this search.” (Mike, 49:20)

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Final Reflections

The hosts express hope that recent efforts—age-progression images, DNA technology, renewed publicity—may finally solve this heart-wrenching case. They emphasize the importance of community engagement; one person recognizing a face or detail could be the breakthrough needed. The episode concludes with a firm belief that justice, answers, and hopefully a reunion for the Verville family are still possible.

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For details, view the NCMEC profile for Kevin Verville Jr. and check the age-progressed image. If you’ve ever sensed your story didn’t add up, or know someone who fits the description, reach out—your tip could change everything.

Transcript

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[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Sam. Foreign.

[Mike Ferguson]

And welcome to episode 473 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Hey.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm stable.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. That was unenthusiastic to say the least.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe the pain pills are wearing off. I don't know. Yeah, I'm not really sure what's going on with my body.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Be on the lookout for Thursday's video because I'm pretty sure Gibby closes his eyes like three or four times. He's on a few different pain pills and it's hard telling what he may say during this episode.

[Mike Gibson]

It's. It's a mystery. I'm sure most of it will have to be cut away.

[Mike Ferguson]

Some of it will. It always does. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Eric plan.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Eric?

[Mike Ferguson]

J. Jessica L. Hey, Jessica Remington.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Rem.

[Mike Ferguson]

Pam Simon.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Simon?

[Mike Ferguson]

Shelly Blass.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Bloss.

[Mike Ferguson]

Britney Albright.

[Mike Gibson]

You are bright.

[Mike Ferguson]

Albright Sheree. Chance.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Chance.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Michelle McDaniel.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Michelle?

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Annette Quisenberry Quenberry.

[Mike Gibson]

Like, again, I'm positive. Not positive. I'm as. I'm. I'm sort of sure that there was a show on Nickelodeon called the Quebe based off the Rugrats or something like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, all right. Sort of. I'm. I'm positive. No, no. I'm sort of sure. Basically means you have no idea at all.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. We have an episode out brand new right now on tcat. Where we're talking about 19 year old matima Miller, whom millions of people knew by his TikTok name, Swavy. He was murdered in broad daylight in July 2021. With community support, police quickly identified his killer, who was linked to multiple gang related crimes.

[Mike Gibson]

And an overall bad guy, an absolute monster, really was.

[Mike Ferguson]

He'll turn out to be. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True crime? All the Time Unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the disappearance of Kevin Verville Jr. Days after his parents brought him home from the hospital, Kevin Verville Jr. Was abducted by a woman who claimed to be part of an organization that assisted young families. Kevin was abducted over 40 years ago, but investigators believe that there's a real strong chance Kevin is alive and does not know he was abducted as a newborn. So, you know, this is kind of a departure from many of the unsolved episodes that we do. A lot of times we're talking about young people, but not babies. Right. He was not even a baby. He was a newborn days old. And although this case happened over 40 years ago, that would mean he's only in his 40s. And would it be logical, Gibbs, to believe that if he's still alive and was cared for, he may have no idea who he really is and no idea that he was ever abducted?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely. It's possible. But maybe, you know, you hear stories of some people that have been abducted that at a very young age that things never felt right, like they could tell something was missing in their life. And maybe, you know, Kevin, or whatever his name is today, has always said, man, I just feel like there's something about me that's missing or I just don't know what it is. And hopefully one day maybe he'll discover that he was kidnapped and his real parents are these people, and maybe he can reconnect with some of his real family.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I'm telling you, if you found that out, and let's say you had a good life and you actually did love the people who took care of you, maybe the people who abducted you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

What would that do to you? Mentally?

[Mike Gibson]

I think it'd be rough. I mean, we did a case not too long ago where a young woman was abducted from the hospital, and her mom, you know, her kidnapping mom raised her, and she had a pretty good life with her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I do remember that case.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. But then, you know, once she realized what happened, it. Everything blew up.

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[Mike Ferguson]

So Kevin Art Verville Jr. Was born on June 14th, 1980 at Camp Pendleton in California. His parents were 21 year old Kevin Verville Sr. And 22 year old Angelina Verville. Kevin and Angelina met when Kevin was stationed in the Philippines with the Marines. They got married shortly after they met in 1978. In 1979, Kevin Sr. Was transferred to Camp Pendleton. He recalled that this was a happy time in their life. Now there's a few things that I've learned over the years. Right. Many things. One of them is that I don't think I would ever make it through Marine boot camp. I would never make it through the Navy SEAL program. I've, I've seen the movies, I've seen what they go through. I know with all my heart I'm not strong enough. I have a lot of admiration for those people.

[Mike Gibson]

I think I would have back in the day.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. Well, yeah, they, I don't know that you could have worn your singlet during the, the basic training, but yeah, you were, you were a strapping young man.

[Mike Gibson]

I just think, you know, the seals, that's another story. But I think I could have made it through the other programs.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, see, now you're gonna have a bunch of Marines emailing in.

[Mike Gibson]

No, no, no. I mean, you know, Marines, that's, that's a tough one to get through. And if you get through that, you bump up, you can bump up. Go to SEAL training. I think I, I could have tried SEAL training. Would I have made it through? I don't know, man. I mean, you're in like being hosed down with cold water, you know, and then you're.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think that's the least of the, the hard part. That's the least hard part about the whole thing. My issue is, number one, I don't like to be told what to do. So that's, well, that's a real tough one training at that point. Then, you know, number two, I don't like to be told when to get up.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So those are two big factors really going against me doing.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, there is also the basics of basic training.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, right. That's like two basic.

[Mike Gibson]

Tell you what you're going to do. We're going to tell you when you're going to get up. We're going to tell you when to

[Mike Ferguson]

go to bed and eat and all that other stuff.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Kevin was born with jaundice, so he had to spend a week in the hospital. Eventually, Kevin Senior and Angelina brought him to their residence at the Sterling Holmes apartment complex in Oceanside, California, which served as off base housing for military Families stationed at camp Pendleton. On June 30, 1980, Kevin Sr. And Angelina received a visit from a stranger. A woman knocked on their door and identified herself as Sheila. She said she was from an organization called H.E.L.P. whose mission was to assist young, low income military families. She told them she could help with diapers, formula and financial assistance. This seemed like a really good opportunity for the family. Sheila agreed to come back soon and said she would take them to the HELP offices to enroll their baby in the program.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, sounds like an awesome program.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you know, let's be honest. Some of these military families, it's not like they're making a ton of money, especially when they, they first start out.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And so for some, and everybody knows what it's like to have a newborn, diapers, formula, if you're going that route, everything's expensive. So for someone to come along and say, hey, I'm here to help you with the financial part of having the baby, I'm with you, man. That seems like it would be an amazing thing to have happen.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sheila was described as a white woman in her early 20s with shoulder length, frizzy or curly red or blonde hair. She was estimated to be 5152 and weighed between 120 and 130 pounds. She also appeared to be four or five months pregnant. Sheila wore glasses and had a tattoo on her left hand in the area between her index finger and thumb. The tattoo is described as a circle with an X inside. It's like tic tac toe, 1x with a circle.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Don't you need three in a row?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you're going to be critical about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Authorities believe that Sheila's hair, glasses, and even the pregnancy could have been a disguise. It's also possible Sheila was not the woman's real name.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I. Sorry, I mean, I know it's kind of like. Yeah, I kind of doubt it too.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I'm with you. I almost laughed at that as well because I thought that's probably the most obvious reporting I've ever heard.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's also possible Sheila was not her real name. If you're going to perpetrate this ruse that we know ends with this woman taking away Kevin Jr. Are you going to give the couple your real name?

[Mike Gibson]

No. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

So not wrong. Just super, super obvious. Right in the, in the reporting. According to the North County Times, on July 1, 1980, Sheila called the couple and said she would send someone to pick them up to go to the office to register for the program. And we said, right, this sounds like it would be an amazing opportunity. It does sound, at least on the surface, to be fairly legit. You know, I'm here from this office. I'm here to help. I'm going to send someone to pick you up to bring you to the office to register.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, at this point you're thinking, this is good. Yeah, I mean, some money, getting some help.

[Mike Ferguson]

I guess my question is, are there any, is there anything so far that would cause like major alarm bells to be going off in your mind? Because I'm not really seeing anything.

[Mike Gibson]

Not at this point. Because, I mean, one, it can. She sounds trustworthy. She's trying to save us money. She's pregnant too. So she relates. That's the other thing. Right. I think maybe if that was costume or not. I mean, I think it helps sell trustworthiness.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think so. And if it is a costume, I'm sure that's exactly why she picked that. Sheila returned to the apartment that day. Kevin Senior had just gotten home from the grocery store and was putting away the groceries. They agreed that Angelina and baby Kevin would go with Sheila to the office. Angelina and the baby got into Sheila's car, a gray or silver four door sedan. Sheila said they needed to stop and pick up another mother who was also going to enroll her child in the program. Sheila drove Angelina and baby Kevin to a remote rural area in north San Diego County. According to a 1980 report by the North County Times, she drove to a spot near Guajome Regional park and pulled into the driveway in a house on Guami Lake Road. Sheila asked Angelina to knock on the door to get the other mother they needed to pick up. When Angelina got out, Sheila sped away with baby Kevin still inside the car. Angelina was left stranded on the side of the road. She began walking back to Oceanside and a motorist picked her up and took her to the police station.

[Mike Gibson]

But thinking at that moment, you know, you step out of the car, you're walking up to the house, you're feeling happy. Right. Probably had some good conversation on the way over there. And you're thinking, you know, this is going to be great, man. We need help with diapers, formula, whatever. And maybe I'm going to meet a new friend with this other mom needing help too. And then you hear the car speed away. I mean, you got to be like, is this, this is a nightmare. Well, this can't really be happening.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and it also, it seems like it would go from excitement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Over this program to absolute, you know, horror that this woman has just stolen my Baby, Yeah. Also, I'm. I'm stuck. I got no car and I got nowhere. Way to get anywhere.

[Mike Gibson]

Helplessness.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to her daughter, Angelica, Angelina was in shock. After Sheila drove off, Angelica told people she couldn't talk, even when a man in a truck stopped to pick her up and bring her to the police station. And I get it. I don't know how much more shocking something would be than to have someone who you think is helping you out, a woman, a pregnant woman, literally speed off with your baby.

[Mike Gibson]

We all, at some point have misplaced our kids. I know I did. You know where. We're out, we're shopping, they're with me. They're little. And I turned and turned back and one of them was gone. And my heart just sunk. My stomach was in knots. I mean, luckily I. I found my daughter pretty quick. But I can't imagine what that would feel like. It be, what, ten hundred times worse seeing your kids beat away that you have no control over. You can't reach out and pull them back in.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, well, the first feeling is pretty bad. Yeah, because it's happened to me too. You know, kids are quick. They can get away from you very quickly. But I'm with you. I think this is 100 times worse because in the first scenario, yeah, you're scared, but you have a relatively good feeling that they're just around the corner or they're in another aisle. You just got to go find them.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In this scenario, you know, that's not the case. This woman has taken off and now you're wondering, is that her real name? I don't really know who this woman is. Is this help organization even real? How am I going to be able to find her and find my baby? Authorities immediately began searching and canvassing the area. Law enforcement and news media in San Diego county were notified, and a nationwide APB was issued in hopes of finding similar crimes in other areas. On July 3, San Diego County Sheriff's Office announced that the FBI volunteered to assist in the investigation. And one of the things that jumped out at me about that is that, okay, they're looking for similar crimes in other areas. All right, I get that. But this seems more like a one off scenario than it does a woman traveling around and abducting a number of children. Yeah, this seems like this is a woman who was looking for a baby and once she got a baby, that was it. She wasn't going to be going out and abducting others.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe she was looking for a specific type of baby.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Scary enough that she would be in the same state still and it would be hard to find her. How much harder would it be to find her if she has taken the baby to the Philippines?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Now you have an international kidnapping. Right. It's going to make it more difficult to find your missing child.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, but the other thing is, I mean, look at all that went into this ruse. Right. She had to come up with the name of an agency that was going to help. She had to explain all the benefits, all they were going to do for the family. But then she also spent a lot of time looking for the right baby. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, no. I mean, there's definitely planning involved leading up to. And there had to be planning afterwards

[Mike Ferguson]

as well or ahead for what was to come after and maybe both. The residents who interacted with Sheila worked with investigators to develop a composite sketch. Detective Sergeant Bill Baxter told the North County Times in 1980. It appears to be a very calculated attempt to get a baby. The person knew enough details about military life to ask people in the area if they knew anybody with a rating up to E5 who had a baby in the last two months. On July 5, Kevin's parents issued a public appeal to the kidnapper, asking them to bring their baby back. Kevin Sr. Said that although Angelina was experiencing extreme emotional trauma, the FBI's speculation that the kidnapper wanted the baby of her own gave them hope that Kevin would be taken care of. Angelina was hospitalized three times after the kidnapping.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm surprised it was only three times.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, he said extreme emotional trauma, and it had to have been. I can't imagine going through something like that.

[Mike Gibson]

I would think some people just would never recover from it.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if they did, it wouldn't be a quick recovery. And I'm not even sure recovery is the right word.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know that you ever recover from it. Do you learn to live your life? Possibly, yes, but it's going to be altered, it's going to be changed, and there's probably not going to be a day that goes by that you don't think about what happened and you don't think about what baby Kevin is doing right now.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Whether that's age 1 5, 20, 40. By this time, federal and county law enforcement had followed up on dozens of sightings of the suspect. Most of the leads came from northern San Diego County. One tip, though, came from as far away as Phoenix.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you take any tip and try to follow up on it, you

[Mike Ferguson]

will, but, man, when they're coming from all over and pretty far away, that's going to eat up quite a bit of time to check some of those out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's going to cut into your resources.

[Mike Ferguson]

The FBI also located the residence where Angelina was left on the side of the road. Kevin and Angelina had gone to this area before to buy fruit from local fruit stands. The FBI spoke to residents in the area, but no one had any connection with the suspect.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it was probably just a random spot. They chose to get her far enough away from getting any help right away.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Ran like a remote spot. Here's a house. Now I do the ruse right. This is where the lady lives. Won't you go ahead and get out? Knock on the door? Yeah, but again, I hate to say it, but pretty smart. Obviously planned out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That month, FBI agents released a psychological profile of the suspect. According to the profile, the woman may have lost a male baby within two months of the abduction, or the child may have been removed from her care by government agencies. She may have been depressed or suicidal and possibly faking the pregnancy. She was likely living Alone.

[Mike Gibson]

I should, at this point, as long as we've been doing these podcasts, to say. All right, before you say what they're

[Mike Ferguson]

going to say, as far as the profile, you give it a shot. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And I'm pretty sure it's going to align 99 of the time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I know it's. They are somewhat generic, I think, and maybe generic's not the right word. They are, in my opinion, often common sense. Driven.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Common. Sensible. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's not a word, but that's what I wanted to say.

[Mike Gibson]

It's the word I use.

[Mike Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Especially, you know, when they're talking about males. Right. 20 to 30, white male.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I know. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Possibly lives alone or, you know, whatever it is, It's. It's normally the same thing. And I'm not putting down FBI profilers. What they do is amazing.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean, it's a. It's a good profile. It's just. I think at this point, it's so common sense able that we all kind of zone in on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

At a press conference at the Balderrama Community Center, Connie Tirona, vice president of the North County Filipino American Culture association, urged the kidnapper to return Kevin Jr. And offered to act as an intermediary. She pleaded for the woman to take Kevin to a hospital or church or to call her to arrange his safe return to his parents. She said in an open letter to the kidnapper, we're concerned for your welfare as well as for the welfare of Kevin and his parents. We believe you to be a caring person, one who put much thought into borrowing Kevin. And we also believe you have a great need and perhaps have suffered a painful loss which you hope to alleviate with Kevin.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I think you have a pretty decent letter there. Right. Using the term borrowing, not kidnapping or stealing. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And really playing up the fact that, you know, we. We understand that you probably went through something traumatic. I think it's really smart.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To approach it in this manner, to try to get the person to. To buy into, okay, well, maybe if I just drop Kevin off, everything will be okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. It seems like these people might care about me, too, and what I've went through, you know, losing my child or me never having a child or whatever the reason was that she chose to take Kevin.

[Mike Ferguson]

The FBI had failed to uncover any solid leads by mid July, but one official told the North County Times he believed the kidnapper and baby may still be in northern San Diego County.

[Mike Gibson]

I think with a newborn, it's kind of a Risk remaining too close to the scene of the crime because people are going to see a new newborn easier. Right. They're gonna pick up on that versus, you know, a 10, 11 year old walking around.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Yeah, I agree with you. But I also, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this is 1980, so how different would it have been back then versus today? There was no social media.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you're not getting the word out quickly that way. Now it sounds like it got press, newspaper, maybe television media. But even then it wasn't, you know, the same 24 hour news that we have today. Also, no amber alerts in 1980. I'm thinking those came along later.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And so more challenges in 1980 than I think would exist today. For sure.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

You might not have heard about this kidnapping until maybe that in the evening news that night or maybe the next morning in the paper, or maybe not even till the weekend.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. And let's not forget, no, you know, no surveillance video as we know it today.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

To. To track this woman's movements or even get a clear picture of what she really looked like.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Today you might have some ring cameras or whatever camera on people's houses and doors and things like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

In late July, FBI agents announced they were seeking three people for questioning in connection with Kevin's kidnapping. An agent spoke to the Blade Tribune and said, they're just some people that we want to talk with. Every time a lead comes down the pike, we treat it like this is it. One day we're going to get lucky.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, one day could happen. Right. You could get the information, Something could be told to you. You could pick up on something that you didn't know before that could open that door that you need to get open.

[Mike Ferguson]

But only if you're following up on

[Mike Gibson]

leads, gotta follow up on them.

[Mike Ferguson]

A month after Kevin was abducted, an FBI agent said they didn't have any identified suspects. He said, we've had three or four leads that I would have bet my paycheck on, but they didn't pan out. You got to be careful betting your paycheck.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Don't bet that paycheck.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I feel like this is probably often the case. Right. Whether it's the FBI or any other, you know, investigative group. They get leads that they're probably so sure about and then they just don't pan out. And that's got to be very frustrating when you think you're. You're on it and it turns out you're not.

[Mike Gibson]

And I was wondering, you Know, how good were these leads? You know, three or four leads that they were willing to bet their paycheck on. I wonder what made them sound so good.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we don't know because we don't have all the information. Maybe it's just that there was so much information. Maybe they had a couple of people call in to corroborate each other. There's a couple of different reasons why a lead could be more promising than another. The agent added, we've considered baby theft rings and have been cross checking people who have been arrested for that all over the United States. We haven't had a tumble on something like this before. It's the first kidnapping where we've not had a ransom demand. It's the first out and out theft in all the kidnappings in the San Diego area in at least 15 years,

[Mike Gibson]

which tells me that the theft was for personal gain.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, if you don't get a ransom note or a ransom call, I mean, what are you left to think that this person wanted the baby for themselves and they're going to raise them.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

By New Year's Day, 1981, Kevin's case was the longest unsolved case in northern San Diego County. And I gotta be honest, I was surprised by that because it's not even been two years. Yeah, but that just shows you that they didn't have a lot of unsolved cases that went very long in northern San Diego County. Kevin Senior spoke to the Blade Tribune and said, we've gotten pretty much back into the daily routine. I don't think there's a day that goes by that we don't talk about him. And at Christmas there was a sort of empty feeling. But some friends came over and that helped. He noted that Angelina was doing better and they didn't avoid talking about their son. When they saw an infant in public, they would stop to ask the parents how old the baby was because they wondered if Kevin had grown to that size.

[Mike Gibson]

That'd be rough.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, your heart just breaks for this couple. They still, though, had hope Kevin would be found. And they had occasional contact with the FBI. They had recently been told an agent was investigating a baby found in the south, but that turned out to be a dead end. One year later, an FBI spokesman said there were no new promising leads, but they were confident the case would be solved eventually. And I don't know what else investigators can say. You can't come out and say, oh, this is hopeless. We're never going to solve this case.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You have to Stay positive.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure you do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators always think they're like one step away from solving the case because a lot of times they are right. They just need that one break. They need that one clue, that one tip. And to me, staying positive is a big part of it. And I think you also have to for the family. By this time, the Verveel family had been transferred out of state. According to a 2025 article by People, Angelina cried for months and turned inward. After Kevin's abduction. Kevin Sr. Told people he blamed himself, saying, as a father, I feel like I failed to protect my family. And that one I understand.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You and I are both fathers. You know, you have this sense of you're the protector. I used to get upset when one of the girls got hurt because I couldn't stop that. Now you're not going to be able to stop all the boo boos and all of that, but it doesn't stop you from feeling like you failed.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's just on a, like a, a micro level. This is a macro level. So I can only imagine what he's feeling.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah. And I'm sure he thinks about that day. You know, should he have went with them instead of saying, no, you go ahead and take the baby and you go with her. I'm sure he regrets that. Like if I was there, maybe I could have stopped it from happening.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or maybe she wouldn't have gone through with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

If he was in the car. But you know, these cases, there's always some of that. There's the what ifs, what if one person had done this or another person had done that? You know, most of us have anxiety, depression at times. But if yours becomes more than just a rough patch, you might need more than talk therapy or self help tools. Talk I tree connects you with real psychiatric care so you can actually understand what's going on and, and get a treatment and medication plan that works. Toxiatry is 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses and ongoing medication management for conditions like adhd, anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, ocd, ptsd, insomnia, and more. Unlike therapy only platforms, Tochiatry is psychiatry. You're seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. More than 300,000 patients have already found high quality psychiatric care through to. Getting started takes just a few minutes. All you have to do is complete a short online assessment and get matched with clinicians who fit your needs and schedule your first visit in days. Not months head to toe slash unsolved to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's talkiatry.com unsolved to get matched in minutes. This episode is sponsored by RO. Everybody knows about GLP1s and some of the amazing results that people are getting from them. But they also come with some pretty hefty price tags. RO is changing that by helping eligible patients Access FDA approved GLP1 options at the lowest cost available to them, whether through insurance or lower cost cash pay options. So don't write off GLP1s just because you assume they're going to be too expensive. You won't qualify. Insurance won't cover it. RO makes it easy to check what's available so eligible patients can find a path that actually fits their budget. Join the over 1,500,000 people who have trusted RO on their weight loss journey. Now, I already take a weekly shot from my diabetes, but if I didn't, I would definitely go with ro. They make it incredibly easy. Go to RO Co Unsolved to see if you qualify. That's RO Co Unsolved. To get started on ro, go to RO Co Safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. You know, one of the things that I really struggle with is finding a good gift for certain people in my life. You know, some people are easy to find a gift for, but others, you know, it feels like they have everything and you got to go out of the box sometimes. And a great place for me to do that is Zazzle. Zazzle is custom marketplace where you can take basically any product such as a mug, a tote bag, a card phone case and make it mean something. So you're not really buying a gift, you're making one. Browse millions of designs or start from scratch and build something completely your own. Either way, you're the designer and everything is made on demand so there's no out of stock. You pick it, customize it and you're done. Over 30 million customers have trusted Zazzle with their most important gifts. Yours is next. I recently made my wife a mug with our two little Malteses on it. She loves it. And how would I have just gotten that at any old store? I couldn't. Zazzle helped me make it. Right now save 25% on your first order at zazzle.com that's 25% savings on your first order at zazzlez.com Go make something zamazing zazzle.com Tensions over Kevin Jr's fate led to arguments, especially when Angelina worried their baby was no longer alive. According to Kevin Senior, that would anger me. I always thought we'd find him.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I can see getting upset about that. Like, why would you even say that? Why would. Why are you even thinking like that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Kevin and Angelina divorced in 1981, but they remarried each other and had two more children, Art and Angelica. Kevin Sr. Recalled that he wouldn't let the kids go anywhere alone because he worried they would be taken too. He explained, it's a nervousness that never goes away. The couple divorced again in 1991, then remarried for a second time before divorcing for good in 1996.

[Mike Gibson]

I just wondered how much the kidnapping of Kevin Jr played in their relationship. Really not working out after that, I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure it played a huge role. Not to say that they would have been married happily ever after if it hadn't have happened, but it couldn't have been good for the marriage. Right. And there's no way. But I want to talk about. Because we have seen this in other cases where people have children after they lose one to something like an abduction. And pretty much all of them say the same thing. They don't want to let those kids out of their sight because they're so fearful that it's going to happen again.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. When you got helicopter parents, I would say these are going to be even more than that.

[Mike Ferguson]

But how can you really blame them? You can't look at what they've gone through.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Angelica Ramsey became the full time caregiver for Angelina, who has suffered two strokes and can no longer speak. Before she lost the ability to communicate, Angelina openly shared details of the abduction. Angelica told people that growing up, she watched true crime shows featuring cold cases, and she wondered why her brother's case wasn't in any of those shows. In 2020, she contacted the FBI about Kevin's case, and they directed her to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. After working with ncmec, Angelica says the family has a new hope. They can finally find Kevin, who is loved and missed by so many. And the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. They do amazing work, Gibbs, and they have for a long time. And they're actually the reason why we're covering this case. They reached out to us via email and asked us to do it. And I go back to what Angelica said. You know, she grew up watching true crime shows. I grew up watching true crime shows. It's one of the main reasons why I wanted to start podcasting true crime but she's watching them, looking for her brother's case to be covered.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she's wondering why it's not.

[Mike Gibson]

Why haven't they covered his story yet? And that's got to be difficult, right? Because week after week, you're seeing a story on this person or this child, but you're just like, wait, why haven't they done Kevin Jr yet?

[Mike Ferguson]

On June 10, 2025, just before what would be Kevin's 45th birthday, the NCMEC held a press conference about the case. They also released a new age progression image showing what Kevin Jr. Might look like now in his 40s. And I would urge everyone to go out to their website, take a look at the age progress photo. Because what are we trying to do here, Gibbs? I mean, our goal has always been to tell stories, to entertain to some degree, to maybe make people think a little bit about their safety.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But when it comes to unsolved, the main goal is to try to get these cases solved. Right now, we're not going to do it by ourselves.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But is it possible that one time somebody is going to hear a detail that we talk about and it's going to click?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, maybe somebody listening to this will go out to the site and look at the age progress photo, and they'll be like, well, heck, that looks kind of like me, or that kind of looks like my buddy at work, or that looks like my dad or my husband. And that can open up some conversations that may or may not lead somewhere, but at least opens up the conversations,

[Mike Ferguson]

which is what we need, Right? FBI Acting Special Agent in Charge of the San Diego Field Office, Hooten Mushrefi spoke during the conference, emphasizing the FBI's commitment to the case and reuniting Kevin with his family. He said the FBI is looking into DNA to help identify Kevin. He noted that they submitted DNA recently to find similar matches. And you would think, Gibbs, that outside of somebody recognizing the photo as maybe someone they know, DNA is going to be the most viable option right now. Obviously, they don't have his DNA.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm assuming they're. They're submitting family DNA and looking for matches that are similar, and they may need to go the genetic genealogy route, maybe some. Something like that. But even that's going to be tough here because he's technically not part of the family tree.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

At this point, he's part of somebody else's family tree whose DNA is not going to be related to his at all. But it's not impossible that his DNA could be in a system somewhere and be similar enough to be matched to someone in his family. I, I'm assuming that's what they're hoping for.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I believe that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Angelica also spoke at the press conference and recounted the day her mother told her what happened to Kevin Jr. She said she was so animated and in tears. Kevin Verveil Sr. Expressed his gratitude for the work being put into the case and talked about how the kidnapping changed their family. He said, we had too much trust in people at the time. We lost a lot of our trust for people in general after that. It changed our lives, it changed the way we think, it changed the way we talk, it changed the way we do everything. And I don't think there's any doubt about it, this one incident changed their entire lives in some form or fashion, every part of their lives. Angeline Hartman, director of communications for the NCMEC, told Dateline in late June 2025 we believe that he's out there and he has no idea who he is. He was abducted at 17 days old. The woman who took him likely took him to raise him as her own child. And so now here you have this 45 year old man walking around on this earth thinking his life is one thing and his biological parents have been looking for him all these years and now it's getting fresh eyes because of this age progression.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I still think, man, if and when he finds out those emotions that you're going to have inside, especially like you said, if you had a good life now, if you had a shitty life, you're like, that explains it.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, but if you had a good life, it's going to just be so difficult to deal with. But I think you're going to want to deal with it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think you're going to have to. I don't think you're going to have a choice if it comes out. But to your point, if you had a good life with this woman who you believed was your mother, and maybe she got married, maybe there's a father, you know, I don't know the, what the scenario is going to be when it comes out, if it comes out. But what, what's it, what are the emotions going to be towards this woman who you may love as a mother, but you find out that she stole you from your real parents. Special Agent Mash Refi also told dateline Kevin Vervil Jr. Could be anywhere. We're a connected world today, much more than we were 45 years ago. We have the power of social media we have the capability of you folks to push this information out to the communities so that anyone who could potentially recognize Kevin or the perpetrator who took Kevin from his family can contact us and assist us in solving this case. In 2026, the NCMEC received the Award of Distinction for Best overall video, the top honor in Reagan's 2025 video, visual and virtual awards. Their video stolen at 17 days. Can a new image help find Kevin Verville Jr. Brought renewed attention to the case and generated new tips for investigators to pursue. As of 2026, no one has been named, arrested, or charged with the disappearance of Kevin Verville Jr. NCMEC Director of Communications Angeline Hartman is quoted as saying in the NCMEC blog post. It's very possible that Kevin Art Verville Jr. Is out there alive with no idea about his real identity, and we need your help to bring him home. It's likely Kevin Jr doesn't know what happened to him and that his biological parents are still searching for him today. He could be anywhere. So we're asking everyone to be part of this search. And Angeline is actually the person who reached out to us.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

With the request of covering this case.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's important for everybody to go out and look at that photo because you just don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And it's easy to say, well, I don't live in California, but we don't know if he's still in California.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. He could be your neighbor. Just look at the photo. Takes, what, 10 seconds?

[Mike Ferguson]

Not to mention that we have a lot of listeners outside of the U.S. yeah. And we talked about it earlier, but Kevin was abducted by a white female in her early 20s. At the time of the abduction, she appeared to possibly be pregnant and had red or blonde hair and was wearing glasses. She used the name Sheila, but there's no reason for me at least to believe that that's her real name. I think one of the important parts was the identifier of this tattoo on her left hand between her index finger and thumb. It's described as a circle tattoo with an X inside. To me, unless she went to great lengths to get rid of that. That's a really good identifier.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because even 40 some years later, although it might fade a little bit, that tattoo is going to still be there.

[Mike Gibson]

It will still be there. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The FBI is continuing to honor a $10,000 reward for information that leads to locating Kevin Verville Jr. As well as the arrest and conviction of those responsible for his abduction. And definitely go out. Right. View that age progress image of Kevin Jr. On the NCMEC website to see what he might look like today. And also you can read more about his case on the website. Also, if you have any information on Kevin Jr. His abduction or the unknown female suspect, please call the national center for Missing and exploited children at 1-800-THE LOST or the FBI at 1-800-225-5324 or visit tips FBI.gov so, Gibbs, as we wrap this one up, it's a heartbreaker for sure. You think about what Kevin Sr. And Angelina went through. Like I said, I think it changed their lives. It changed the trajectory of their lives in so many different ways.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now they did go on to have two more children, which is awesome.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I know for a fact there hasn't been a day that's gone by for them where they have not thought about Kevin Jr. And they deserve to know absolutely where he is, whether he's alive. Maybe they can get reunited. I will say this. I do believe this is going to be solved. There's a lot of people putting this out, including us. The national center for Missing and Exploited Children is pushing the information out. They've got this age progressed photo. I do feel like we're going to hear some news on this one maybe by the end of the year.

[Mike Gibson]

I hope so. I really do.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I have high hopes now. Again, I have no idea what Kevin Jr's mindset is going to be if and when he finds out that he was abducted at 717 days old.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that his life in a large way has been a lie.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe if you're the woman that kidnapped him, you can get ahead of this. You know, maybe come clean to him, allow him to approach his real parents. Maybe if you have a good relationship, you can, I don't know if you can have the same relationship, but maybe you can kind of keep it somewhat intact by coming clean to him and saying, this is what I did. I'm not proud of it. But you know, it's going to probably, like you said, it's probably going to come out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I, I really do think it will.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it for our episode on Kevin Verville Jr. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Oh, Mike and Giddy, Plan C calling from Belfast, South Dakota. At this rate, longtime listener and max amount listener, we are deep into hay season up here in South Dakota. And I'm spending anywhere from 12 to 17 hours a day in the tractor. So I'm absolutely chewing through your guys podcast, hence why I'm so far back in the archives because it's hard to find ones that I haven't listened to yet. But I was listening to the Michael Wayne Jackson case and I was laughing because you guys were talking about the red ISUSU truck that he got away in and you guys were asking if ISISU was still made. And I'm originally from Australia and I wanted to let you know that isoosu is an incredibly popular car brand in Australia Steel. They make a ton of cars, a ton of like half ton pickups. So there you go. The market just flopped over to Australia, but you guys make hours and hours in the tractor very bearable and I appreciate you. I do a trip or two trips a year down and back from Arizona to South Dakota for my work in the summer. And despite my boyfriend wondering why on earth I listen to true crime while I'm, you know, a girl by myself driving, you know, 1200 miles through the night, you guys really help keep me entertained on my long drives and my long days at work. So thank you guys for everything you do. I love the show. Stay safe and keep your own time picking. And I'm going to get back to picking up these dang bales. Thank you.

[Mike Gibson]

I couldn't remember that case at first, but then when she said Isuzu, I knew. I remember we were talking about that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I, you know, it was so funny because, like in the 80s. Because we were talking about the 80s in this episode. Yeah, you couldn't really watch a commercial without seeing a commercial. I remember the guy who did the commercials.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

For them. And the commercials were everywhere. And then it's like all of a sudden they just disappeared.

[Mike Gibson]

They were gone.

[Mike Ferguson]

They went to Australia very.

[Mike Gibson]

Now we know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now we know. But she, she thinks my tractor sexy.

[Mike Gibson]

Of course she does.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, what are you going to do?

[Mike Gibson]

You think your tractor's sexy?

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. Tick.

[Unidentified Guest or Contributor]

Sa. Foreign.

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