Lester Eubanks

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved — Lester Eubanks (Episode 452)

Podcast: True Crime All The Time Unsolved
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Date: February 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson explore the case of Lester Eubanks, a convicted murderer who has been on the run since 1973 after escaping custody during a prison honor program excursion. The hosts meticulously examine Eubanks’ criminal history, the murder that led to his conviction, the circumstances of his escape, and the ongoing manhunt. They also discuss the impact on the victim’s family and debate systemic issues that enabled Eubanks’ flight from justice. The episode maintains the podcast’s signature tone: approachable but detailed, with moments of levity between the hosts amid the gravity of the true crime narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Introduction & Case Summary

• Lester Eubanks' Crime and Escape (04:20)

  • Lester Eubanks was sentenced to death for the 1965 murder and attempted rape of 14-year-old Mary Ellen Deener in Mansfield, Ohio.
  • His sentence was commuted to life after the 1972 Supreme Court decision affecting Ohio death row inmates.
  • He escaped during an honor program’s unsupervised Christmas shopping trip in 1973, and has been on the run for over 50 years.

• Why this Case is Notorious (04:55–05:12)

  • Ferguson: “1973, that is a long time to still be out on the run.”
  • The case is notable for the failures of the penal system and the ongoing mystery of Eubanks’ whereabouts.

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2. Lester Eubanks' Early Life & Criminal Behavior

• Juvenile Offenses & Pattern of Violence (05:55–07:36)

  • Eubanks’ offenses began as a teenager: assaulting young girls, probation, and seemingly lenient consequences.
  • Ferguson reflects, “I feel like today these would be attempted kidnapping… even at 16, he could be tried as an adult.”

• Adulthood & Outward Respectability (08:06–09:18)

  • Served in the Air Force as a medic, earned a black belt in karate, and maintained hobbies like oil painting.
  • Worked at a waterbed store and painted houses.
  • Perceived as a “churchgoer,” but his criminal behavior continued under the surface.

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3. The Murder of Mary Ellen Deener

• Background on the Victim (09:29–11:26)

  • Mary Ellen was a high-achieving, religious 14-year-old with ambitions to become a nun (Ferguson: “She thought she could be of most service to people as a nun.”).
  • Her family life and strong Catholic faith are discussed.

• Timeline of the Crime (13:10–16:19)

  • On November 14, 1965, Mary Ellen and her sister were doing laundry late at night.
  • Eubanks approached and abducted Mary Ellen, shot her twice, and upon returning to the scene, killed her with a brick when he found her still alive.
  • Gibson: “He had the opportunity to get her help before he ran away and then again when he came back, but he chose to make sure that she would die.”

• Community and Family Impact (17:16–18:43)

  • Mary Ellen’s body was found by police after a neighbor’s call. Her sister and grandmother were traumatized by the discovery.

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4. Investigation and Arrest

• Police Work & Identification of Eubanks (18:59–20:47)

  • Police traced a recently purchased .32 caliber handgun to Eubanks.
  • Community members identified him near the scene. Eubanks had a reputation as a loner and prior arrests for similar violent offenses.

• Quick Confession & Forensic Evidence (24:14–25:52)

  • Eubanks confessed soon after being brought in.
  • His version attempted to downplay the sexual aspect and framed the killing as a panicked accident.
  • Ferguson: “He confessed very, very quickly… but the story that he told…just seems ludicrous.”

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5. Trial & Sentencing

• Testimonies and Eubanks’ Stories (26:19–37:23)

  • The coroner and a previous victim testified; Eubanks gave multiple, shifting accounts of the murder.
  • Hosts note his tendency to omit or minimize the sexual assault and to blame the victim for his own actions.
  • Psychiatrist Dr. Walter Massey detailed Eubanks’ “character neurosis” and lack of empathy.

• Verdict and Aftermath (37:24–39:03)

  • Guilty of first-degree murder while attempting to commit rape; sentenced to death.
  • Supreme Court’s 1972 decision commuted his sentence to life, with the hosts reflecting on timing and fate.

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6. The Escape: Flawed Honor Program

• Unsupervised Christmas Shopping Excursion (40:04–42:36)

  • Eubanks earned a spot in the honor program, which allowed him and three others to shop at a mall unsupervised and in civilian clothes.
  • Ferguson, aghast: “If I'm at that mall with my wife and kids, I'm not happy that convicted murderers are walking around in Levi's and flannels. I can't tell them apart.”
  • At 2pm pickup, Eubanks was gone, aided by an associate. He vanished for decades.

• Hosts Criticize the System (40:04–42:36)

  • Both hosts question the logic and safety of such programs for violent offenders.
  • Gibson: “There's no reason that you need to come out and do any of that [if you have a life sentence].”
  • Ferguson: “To go on trips, it’s just not my thing. It’s not what prison is for.”

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7. The Manhunt & Life On the Run

• Early Leads & Sightings (46:19–47:30)

  • Reports indicate Eubanks stayed with an acquaintance in California after his escape and used aliases.
  • Possible work in a mattress factory and as a janitor under the name “Victor Young.”

• Victim’s Family and Long-Term Trauma (48:45–48:56)

  • The Deener family struggled with the loss and the horror of Eubanks’ escape; several family deaths followed.

• Recent Investigative Developments (50:56–56:55)

  • Multiple efforts in recent years: U.S. Marshals’ most wanted list, DNA strategies using familial samples, reward increases, and age progression photos.
  • Notable quote: Brian Fitzgibbon (U.S. Marshals) — “He’s alive. I feel we’re getting closer.” (52:16)
  • Agencies believe Eubanks may have remained in the L.A. area for decades.
  • Age-progressed images released as recently as May 2025.

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8. Reflections, Theories & Systemic Lessons

• Could He Still be Alive? (56:55–59:47)

  • With Eubanks now theoretically 82, the hosts debate whether he’s alive and what kind of life he might have led since.
  • Ferguson: “He has done an amazing job of eluding the authorities… It wouldn’t surprise me at all if, at some point, they do link him to additional crimes.”

• Justice & “Paying the Price” (58:03–59:47)

  • Discussion of whether it matters if Eubanks reformed, and the tragedy of never having served his sentence.
  • Gibson: “The sad thing is that he did horrible things that he never paid the price for.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“He had the opportunity to get her help before he ran away and then again when he came back, but he chose to make sure that she would die.”
— Mike Gibson on Eubanks’ brutality (16:19)

“If I'm at that mall with my wife and kids, I'm not happy that convicted murderers are walking around in Levi's and flannels. I can't tell them apart.”
— Mike Ferguson on the prison’s honor program and public safety (41:47)

“What does that say?”
— Mike Ferguson about Eubanks’ ability to kill and then go on a date and to church the next morning (31:05)

“He has done an amazing job of eluding the authorities… Because there have been quite a few different agencies who have been looking for him. I mean, he’s on the US Marshals top, you know, most wanted list.”
— Mike Ferguson (57:14)

“Nothing [justifies him not paying for what he did].”
— Mike Ferguson (58:21)

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Important Timestamps

• 04:20 — Case summary and Lester Eubanks’s conviction
• 09:29–11:26 — Profile of victim Mary Ellen Deener
• 13:10–16:19 — Details of the abduction and murder
• 18:59–20:47 — Investigation zeroes in on Eubanks
• 26:19–39:03 — Trial details and shifting testimony
• 40:04–42:36 — Eubanks’s escape and systemic criticism
• 46:19–47:30 — Early leads on Eubanks’s whereabouts (post-escape)
• 50:56–56:55 — Recent developments and reward increases
• 56:55–59:47 — The hosts’ discussions: “Could he be alive?” and justice served
• 58:03–59:47 — Reflections on justice and the enduring impact

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Final Thoughts

• The episode highlights glaring failures in the penal system—specifically, trusting a violent offender with unsupervised release—and the devastation this caused for Mary Ellen’s family.
• The hosts balance careful research with candid commentary, consistently expressing frustration at systemic lapses and sympathy for the victim.
• The case remains unsolved, with hope placed in renewed efforts such as DNA forensics and continued public awareness.
• The episode leaves listeners with haunting questions about justice delayed, lost potential for closure, and the enduring pain for the families impacted by both the crime and Eubanks’ escape.

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For tips regarding Eubanks:
Contact the Northern Ohio Violent Fugitive Task Force at 1-866-4-WANTED or submit a web tip (reward available; tipsters can remain anonymous).

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Episode delivered in the thorough, conversational, and grounded style True Crime All The Time Unsolved fans expect.

Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Foreign. And welcome to episode 452 of the True crime all the time unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, we are in our new studio finally.

[Mike Gibson]

We are.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're digging it.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if you're on Patreon, you've already seen it because we did our first video on on Patreon on Saturday. If you're not, we're dropping our first true crime all the time extra episode this coming Thursday.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And with that, the video will also be on YouTube so you can check it out. See our new studio. Watch me and Gibby do the episode. If you're not subscribed to the the YouTube channel, definitely do that because it's something you want to check out.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Roz Tron.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Ross Tron.

[Mike Ferguson]

Elizabeth Sperber.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Elizabeth.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tasha Kearney.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Tasha.

[Mike Ferguson]

Neom.

[Mike Gibson]

D. Well, thank you, Neom.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tracy Nelson.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Tracy?

[Mike Ferguson]

Lori Papesky.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Lori.

[Mike Ferguson]

Terry. Oh, there's Terry D. Danielle Shin.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Shin.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Wanda shepherd jumped out at her highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

That kind of like WandaVision maybe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Did you watch that?

[Mike Gibson]

I did not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you don't like that stuff I did.

[Mike Gibson]

Was it good?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I'm actually a big fan of the Olson lady.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

She's my favorite of all three Olsens.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I like Wanda because Wanda is a good supporter.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yes. And the other Wanda doesn't support us at all as far as I know.

[Mike Gibson]

The WandaVision.

[Mike Ferguson]

Then we go back into the ball. This week we selected Sarah Reid.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Sarah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we appreciate all the support. We have a brand new episode out on Tcat where we're talking about Louis Davidson. He was a well known emergency room doctor in the Tampa bay area. In 1994, he was brutally beaten and murdered in. In his home. And the investigation, man, it went all over, but it eventually came back to somebody very close to him. And that episode that's coming out this Thursday on True Crime all the Time is on this woman named Libby Adame. And this is a wild story, Gibbs. She was basically a person who had built this big social media following. She was known as the Butt lady because she gave silicone injections to people to, you know, plump up their rear ends at a very low price compared to most people.

[Mike Gibson]

This is totally different than Kramer being the Ass Man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. Different concept, but she wasn't licensed to do this stuff. And three people actually died and she disfigured a dozens and dozens more people.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. That's a shame.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So make sure you check that out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Lester Eubanks. Lester was sentenced to death for the November 1965 murder and attempted rape of 14 year old Mary Ellen Deener. After his sentence was commuted to life in prison, he was able to charm his way into the prison's honor program, which gave him the opportunity to escape during an outing in December 1973. Lester's been on the run ever since, and he's currently on the US Marshal's most wanted list.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you think about it, 1973, that is a long time to still be out on the run.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, I was born that year. So, you know, it's. He's coming up on 53 years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Of being on the run. But, you know, this prison's honor program, I'm sure some have it. I don't know if every prison has it, but, you know, it's supposed to be for kind of the model inmates. You got to be really doing all of the right things, not getting into trouble. You just wonder, like, was he setting this up for years and years and years, or did he just realize that he had this amazing opportunity to escape one day and he took it.

[Mike Gibson]

I kind of feel like it's like Shawshank sometimes. Right. You do little steps here and there in preparation to that day you can finally escape and hopefully break free.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, just for the opportunity to present itself. And you. You want to be ready. That could be. Lester Eubanks was born on October 31, 1943. He's the son of Reverend Mose Eubanks. Lester's criminal record dates back to his teenage years. He was cited in juvenile court on December 24, 1959, on a charge of assaulting a 12 year old girl from Mansfield, Ohio. He admitted to grabbing the girl and knocking her down. When she bit him on the hand, he let her go and fled downtown. He was arrested while walking down the street because the girl had given police a description.

[Mike Gibson]

Good for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, that's amazing for her, number one, that she got away, she fought back, she bit this guy. But also amazing that at 12 years old, she was able to give police a description that was good enough for them to track this guy down.

[Mike Gibson]

But here he is, 16 years old.

[Mike Ferguson]

Already causing issues when admitting to attacking the girl. Lester also told police he grabbed a small girl on October 29, 1959, after a high school dance. He let her go because she was screaming. So he's showing a pattern.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Already he was put on probation on his 18th birthday and turned over to his father. He wasn't allowed on the streets after dusk unless an adult was with him. Now I'm thinking it's probably pretty lucky that's all he got.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's kind of like a slap on the wrist.

[Mike Ferguson]

I get it. He was a minor at the time, you know, of these two incidents. But I don't know, I feel like today these would be attempted kidnapping. I mean, they would really maybe pump up some of these charges. And even at 16, I feel like he could be tried as an adult in some places.

[Mike Gibson]

I think you're right. I think the charges will be more severe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. I do too. As an adult, Lester served as an Air Force medic. He earned a black belt in karate and enjoyed oil painting as a hobby.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you are a black belt in something, and I know you like to play with oil.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that could go a couple of different ways. So I'm just gonna leave that one alone. My daughter did earn a black belt.

[Mike Gibson]

She did.

[Mike Ferguson]

In taekwondo.

[Mike Gibson]

She beats my. You know what? A lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

She could. She could. If you don't stop messing with her. After leaving the military, he worked in the shipping and receiving department of a waterbed store and. And painted houses on the side. He was said to be an avid churchgoer, per the Mansfield News Journal.

[Mike Gibson]

I really loved my waterbed back in the day.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Were we talking about waterbeds a few months ago?

[Mike Gibson]

I think we were.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because I had a dream the other night that I was back in, like the waterbed I had in high school.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That thing was awesome. It had no support whatsoever.

[Mike Gibson]

No baffles, just sloshing around.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was just. It was a slosher.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And. But I slept great because in the summer you could turn the heater down and it would get real cold.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or you know, in the wintertime you turn the heater up and get nice and warm.

[Mike Gibson]

They used to be so popular and just one day they just. You never heard about them again.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. They probably turned out to be horrible for your back. It's probably why I have so many back problems now because I had a water bed for so long. On November 14, 1965, Lester Eubanks shot and bludgeoned 14 year old Mary Ellen Deaner to death during an attempted rape. Mary Ellen was born in Memphis, Tennessee on July 27, 1951. She was brought to Mansfield as an infant. She lived with her mother, Cassie Jones and six siblings. Mary Ellen was a good student. She had a high gpa. She was on the school newspaper staff and participated in Glee Club.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, love Glee Club.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I know you were big into that. You were, I think in some ways the inspiration for that show Glee. That's what I've heard anyway.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm not going to deny.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, you're the one that told me that. So that's the only frame of reference I have. Mary Ellen's sister Myrtle Carter told Unsolved Mysteries. Mary Ellen was just a typical little girl riding bikes and hopscotch and, you know, playing with dolls. Oh, and she had a lot of friends. Mary Ellen's mother told the Mansfield News journal Back in 1965, Mary Ellen wanted to become a nun. She thought she could have been of most service to people as a nun.

[Mike Gibson]

That's interesting.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I don't know how many young girls, especially today, would think about that. A lot of people are thinking about becoming YouTube stars or singing sensations now in the 50s. Okay, maybe a little different, but even then I don't know how common it would be at a pretty young age.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I think the Catholic Church was on a larger stage back then too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would say that's probably true. Mary Ellen had a strong desire to become Catholic and often read books about Catholicism and nuns. On the evening of November 14, 1965, Mary Ellen and her 12 year old sister Brenda were doing laundry. This was part of their normal assign chores.

[Mike Gibson]

A 12 year old doing laundry back then?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, back then, it doesn't surprise me today. Today it might surprise me now. I'm a big believer in chores. My kids, not so much. So it has been a battle for years and years and years now. The older they've gotten, the easier it's become. But when they were younger, man, trying to get them to do chores was like they, they would just get so off track so easily. And I don't know if that's because of the, the phone age, the video game age, whatever you want to call it. Their attention span just didn't seem to lend itself to being able to get them to do chores easily.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but you are a big chore person because I can't leave here without scouring and cleaning that bathroom and taking your trash out before I leave. That's like my chores that you force on me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, well you did. You do pee all over the bathroom like three times while you're here. So I am elderly. The girls had washed all the clothes, but the family's dryer broke, so they had to take a taxi to the nearby laundromat to use the dryer. And that's a bad situation to be in. I'm sure many people listening have probably been there. Oh yeah, once you've washed the clothes, you need to dry the clothes because I think we've all forgotten to switch the washed clothes to the dryer.

[Mike Gibson]

It's the worst.

[Mike Ferguson]

Then they smell. You got to rewash them. It's just a big mess. Mary Ellen and Brenda left around 10:30pm Cassie wasn't worried about her girls going out late at night because their grandmother loved William, lived right next door to the laundromat and they would go to her if they needed anything. Also, Mansfield was considered a safe city where everyone knew each other. And man, how many times have we heard that? Especially going back into the, you know, the 50s, the 60s, a lot of towns, people just didn't worry about crime.

[Mike Gibson]

No, people would leave their front door locked. You know, they would not worry about their kids getting on their bicycles and going down to the corner store and coming back. It just wasn't a concern until some.

[Mike Ferguson]

Big case changed it. All right. And by big, I mean something that hit that community, right? The girls ran out of change while drying their clothes. Mary Ellen tried to get change at a gas station nearby, but she was unsuccessful and she returned to the laundromat and asked Brenda to go to another nearby laundromat to get change. Brenda said no because she was scared of the dark. Mary Ellen agreed to go and promised to be back soon. It was only about a five minute walk to the other laundromat, but Mary Ellen never returned. And I think it does, you know, highlight a pretty big difference between, you know, let's say, 1965 and today. Most people today would not let girls this age out alone at 10:30 at night. No, they just wouldn't do it.

[Mike Gibson]

No. No way.

[Mike Ferguson]

While she was walking back from the other laundromat, Mary Ellen was grabbed in the 300 block of North Mulberry street by Lester Eubanks, who was out walking. Lester dragged Mary Ellen behind a house. She screamed for help. Lester pulled up her skirt and pulled her underwear down. Mary Ellen fought him and continued screaming until Lester pulled out a revolver and shot her twice in the chest and abdomen before fleeing the scene. After the attack, Lester went home to his apartment to clean up and get dressed for a night on the town, per Unsolved Mysteries. On his way back out 20 minutes later, Lester passed by the crime scene and saw that Mary Ellen was still breathing. He beat her in the head with a brick until she died. Wow. I mean, that's just so brutal.

[Mike Gibson]

It really is. And just to think, you know, he had the opportunity to get her help before he ran away and then again when he came back, but he chose to make sure that she would die.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I can only think that, you know, he thought she could identify him or, or something like that. Police found Mary Ellen's body two hours later after a neighbor called to report someone lying in a yard. Meanwhile, Mary Ellen's sister Brenda became frightened when she didn't come back. She ran next door to her grandmother's house, and Love Williams went out looking for her granddaughter. She headed next door, but stopped short when she noticed police officers in a crowd near a vacant house just north of the laundromat. When she told police her granddaughter was missing, she was asked to view the body and identified Mary Ellen.

[Mike Gibson]

That'd be tough.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, just absolutely heartbreaking to have to identify the body of your young granddaughter. Authorities determined that Mary Ellen was shot with.32 caliber bullets. While some officers were canvassing the neighborhood, others went to gun and hardware stores in the city to check records for recent gun sales. At a store called Diamond Hardware, records showed that Lester Eubanks purchased a.32 caliber Ivor Johnson handgun less than a month before the murder. An informant had also spotted Lester, a well known figure in Mansfield, in the area of the crime scene. Mary Ellen's sister Myrtle said in her interview with Unsolved Mysteries that she knew Lester as a guy that walked down the street. I just always thought he was weird and appeared to be A loner, he often fiddled with nunchucks as he walked up and down the street.

[Mike Gibson]

Now that is strange.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's very strange. You know, someone walking up and down the street, okay, they could be getting exercise or they could be doing something nefarious or whatever. They could be doing a myriad of things. I just don't know if I've ever seen somebody walking down the street doing a Bruce Lee act with nunchucks.

[Mike Gibson]

It's almost like they're trying to make a statement. Hey, don't mess with me. I have these nunchucks and I'll take them to you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that or I might have some mental health issues, you know, that are occurring right now.

[Mike Gibson]

Have you ever played with nunchucks?

[Mike Ferguson]

I have, yeah. I actually broke an ex girlfriend's nose accidentally playing around with a set of nunchucks.

[Mike Gibson]

Why did you just do air quotes when you said accidentally?

[Mike Ferguson]

I did not do air quotes, but I felt really horrible about it. I don't know if I broke her nose. It definitely got bloody. I don't know if it broke, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Be interesting how you explained that when you took her home.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, that was a bad night for sure. Lester had at least two prior arrests for sex crimes. And at the time of the murder, he was out on bond for attempted rape. He was accused of attacking an 18 year old waitress at a local restaurant in August 1965. So I want to take a step back, Gibbs, and just kind of talk about the police work, because it seems as though they kind of zeroed in on this guy pretty quickly.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they really did.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, the thought of going to the different gun shops and checking the records, you know, that's smart. And then you have someone who claims that he was near the crime scene on the night that the murder occurred.

[Mike Gibson]

And it fit his M.O.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah. And you go back and you look at his record and. And obviously he's. He's got some troubling things that happened in his past, but it does seem like they did a good job in the investigation. Now, maybe some of that stuff kind of fell in their lap. You know, they happened to stumble upon a registration for the gun and all that, but it's still pretty good police work, I would say.

[Mike Gibson]

I agree with you.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

You know, I think the one part that Lester left out was he also tried to rape her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think number one, the confession came very quickly, you know, which does happen sometimes. I think more often than not, the police have to wear people down. And, you know, they're going to lie and they're going to do this until they finally realize that they're not getting out of this, and then they ultimately confess. It sounds like he confessed very, very quickly, but the story that he told. Right. Okay. She's got a bottle of soda. I didn't know whether she was going to drink it or she was going to hit me with it. First of all, that seems ludicrous.

[Rick from Alabama (Voicemail Caller)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

To me, this is a young girl.

[Mike Gibson]

She probably raised it because he was threatening to sexually assault her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And then to your point, you know, leaving. What really is, is one of the more important aspects of this attack out that. That seems quite common to me. You know, it's what perpetrators do when they do ultimately confess. They confess to certain things. Yeah. But there's aspects of the crime that they don't want to talk about. Usually that is rape, sexual assault, especially of minors. People don't want to talk about that. But he readily admits that he shot her twice in the chest.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jury selection for the murder trial started on May 9, 1966. The coroner testified that although Mary Ellen was fatally wounded by two bullets, she was killed when her head was crushed by the brick. The coroner knew he used a brick because he asked Lester directly at the police station what he struck the girl with. Lester responded, a brick.

[Mike Gibson]

Lester was not shy about telling the story.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Except for the sexual assault part.

[Mike Gibson]

He left that piece out. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But as far as shooting her, hitting her with a brick, he readily admitted all of that. Police Captain John Butler testified that Lester admitted the murder to his father. When they met outside the police station 17 hours after the body was found, Butler saw Lester embrace his father. They were both crying, and he admitted to killing the girl. Butler said he told his father he saw the girl coming up Mulberry street and that she had a soda pop bottle in her hand. He said he reached out and grabbed her and started dragging her to the rear of the house. Eubanks told his father that he was afraid he would be caught with her. Then he pulled his gun to scare her. She grabbed at it, and it went off.

[Mike Gibson]

So even with that story, if. If you were afraid that she was going to make noise and cause an issue for him, why'd you even grab her?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's the point, Right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It goes back to. There's definitely truth in all of these statements, but there's some aspects that are misleading as well, because if you. If you notice when he's talking to his dad, he doesn't say anything about, she raised this bottle. I was in fear. Right. And that's why I grabbed her. He doesn't talk about that at all. Because we know that's not what happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. I mean, he's saying, I grabbed her and started dragging her to the rear of the house. Well, of course she's gonna cause a scene at that point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because she's been grabbed by a stranger. Yeah. I think what he does here is he also omits the sexual assault aspect.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But then he kind of puts the shooting back onto her. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

She grabbed it, it went off. Wasn't my fault. It's the way she grabbed it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Captain Butler also read from Lester's signed statement where he admitted to returning to the crime scene and killing Mary Ellen. And for me, there's no way around that one. Gibbs, you know, you can give a bunch of different versions of the events of the first encounter, but the second encounter, where he comes back and she's still breathing and he admits to crushing her head with a brick, there's no way around that.

[Mike Gibson]

Even if his original story was correct, it was an accident. I did pull the gun, but I didn't shoot her. She. She caused that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which nobody believes. No, and I know you don't either.

[Mike Gibson]

But if you could believe that, that all went out the window like you said, as soon as he picked that brick up and smashed her head.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. According to Captain Butler, as reported by the Mansfield News Journal, he said he walked on, and when he heard someone running behind him, he stepped off the sidewalk. When the girl was within arm's reach, she stopped and asked what he was doing there. Eubanks said, I don't like people walking behind me, and then saw her raise a soda pop bottle she was carrying. She started to scream, and he pulled her Back into the rear of the vacant house yard. They were struggling. He pulled his gun out and shot twice, Got scared and ran to his apartment, which was two doors away. There he emptied the live gun bullets and spent shells and a brown paper sack and got to thinking the girl wasn't dead. He retraced his steps, hid the gun and sack of bullets, picked up a paving brick and hit her in the head with it several times. He went home to change clothes and went over to a woman's apartment. From there, they went downtown to get food. Lester and the woman returned to her apartment the next morning. He went to church and was arrested in the afternoon.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that's nice. He was able to go out on the town, have some food, go back with his lady and, you know, in the morning go to church and, you know, ask for forgiveness. And then that was his, what, 12, 14 hours after he killed somebody.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. He obviously was not broken up right about what he had done. I mean, who goes on a date after that? I mean, if you can. What does that say?

[Mike Gibson]

It says you're heartless.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You just. You have no emotion. Most likely you're a sociopath or a psychopath.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The teenage girl who was assaulted by Lester in the summer was the final prosecution witness. She testified that on August 19, 1965, she was working alone at her family's restaurant. Lester came in around 11:30pm and ordered coffee and shrimp. She went into the kitchen to put the shrimp in the fryer and saw Lester's reflection in a kitchen window. She turned because she was startled. Lester asked for directions to the restroom. She was washing dishes. When he came out, he commented that it was a nice place and asked if they were busy. She testified, I foolishly said, no, we don't get busy until about 2:30. I thought he was too forward. I didn't like his kind. I started to go past him to get out in front and he grabbed me. His arm was around my throat. He pushed me into the restroom and said, listen to this or I'll kill you. He put both hands around my throat and choked me. I passed out. I mean, all of these scenarios, they're not only violent, but they're also very scary.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, Lester's got some issues here.

[Mike Ferguson]

This girl testified that she had seen Lester at the restaurant before and also recognized him as one of four people who put on a judo exhibition at her high school. Let's not forget. Right. We said he was a black belt.

[Mike Gibson]

We did.

[Mike Ferguson]

And so, you know, when you think about hands to the throat, or maybe even, you know, like a chokehold. Is it possible that, you know, maybe he would have had some training in that? Yeah, maybe.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think he would have more knowledge in that area than most.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it. It depends on what type of, you know, discipline you're training in. But some of those do really focus in on choke holds and. And things like that. Dr. Walter Massey, a psychiatrist neurologist, testified that Lester had character neurosis. And some of the classical signs of the defect are lack of good judgment and foresight. And the persons are egocentric, demanding, selfish, affectionless and ungrateful. They have no awareness of motives and are unable to judge their own actions. Okay, let's just break that down for a little bit. I've known people. I'm sure you've known people. I'm sure people listening right now have and do currently know people who lack good judgment. They're egocentric, they're demanding, they're selfish, they're ungrateful. I mean, you know, there are quite a few people like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely there are.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, when you go on and you say they have no awareness of motives and are unable to judge their own actions. Okay, now we're getting into a much different realm, in my opinion. This is, to me, like they don't know right from wrong. They don't know what they're doing is wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

They're just doing it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lester then got on the stand to testify in his own defense. He denied everseeing the girl who accused him of rape, claiming he pleaded innocent to the charge and was with a lady friend that night. He told the same story about the murder, claiming he dragged Mary Ellen behind the house because she wouldn't stop screaming. He took his pistol out just to scare her, but they struggled with it and the gun went off. He testified that afterwards he broke down crying in his apartment, saying, I thought maybe there was something I could do for her. I am trained to help people. I am an Air Force medic. He went back to the scene and felt her wrist for a pulse, but couldn't find one. I concluded she was dead. I then got angry with myself, found a brick there and hit her a couple of times. Then I hid the gun and bullets and left.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't really think she tried to struggle to get the gun from him.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I don't think so at all.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's just something he's adding to the story.

[Mike Ferguson]

I also am not convinced that she raised this pop bottle to try to hit him with it. Before, yes. Now, she might have raised it after he tried to grab her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that sounds plausible.

[Mike Ferguson]

But his story is like, she was coming after me for no reason.

[Mike Gibson]

I was just trying to defend myself.

[Mike Ferguson]

And. And that makes no sense to me whatsoever. But then this new part, okay, he's a trained Air Force medic, so he goes back and he can't find a pulse, but he picks up the brick. Not to kill her because she's still alive, but because he's upset and angry with himself, which I don't understand in the slightest.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean, you can be frustrated. What does that have to do with what you did to her, with that frustration?

[Mike Ferguson]

But again, you know, people say stuff. It's so hard to make sense of Gibbs because, number one, they talk in circles. They tell multiple different versions, you know, of the story. And very rarely do, you know, many of them make sense. None of these seem to make sense to me.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I feel like he's just scrambling to try to make sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, me too. He's. He's trying to come up with something that he believes people will understand or believe that will maybe lessen his culpability in some way. That's what I think he's doing.

[Mike Gibson]

But it makes it worse, doesn't it?

[Mike Ferguson]

To me it does, because it just shows that you're a liar. You have to be a liar because you've told so many different versions, they can't all be true. On May 25, 1966, Lester was found guilty of first degree murder while attempting to commit rape. The jury made no recommendation of mercy, which automatically carried the death penalty. While on death row, Lester was described as a quiet inmate who kept to himself. He enjoyed painting and writing and won awards for his oil paintings. His execution was pushed back three times for different reasons, according to KIRO 7. And then on August 1, 1972, the Supreme Court set aside the death sentences of 12 Ohio inmates, including Lester Eubanks. And my first thought was, you know, we. We know, right, that a lot of people escape the death penalty after the Supreme Court ruling. Yeah, their sentences were changed to. To life. But this one Lester's jumped out at me because his execution was pushed back three times. So he very easily could have been executed before the Supreme Court ruling came down. And I'm wondering how many people were, like, in the months leading up to the ruling, like, they just missed that. Just missed escaping that death penalty.

[Mike Gibson]

Like, if there was somebody like the day before.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about the day before, but there had to be somebody in the months or Multiple people leading. You know, in the months leading up to it. After his sentence was commuted, Lester charmed his way into the prison's honor program. He received letters of recommendation from prison staff. Honor program inmates were occasionally allowed to go on short trips outside prison. And I think I've said it before, Gibbs, I'm not a big fan of this. This happens quite a bit in other countries. It does in cases that we talk about. And sometimes people are left alone or allowed to go into town by themselves and just asked to report back at a certain time. And these aren't people that got picked up for shoplifting. These are murderers, rapists. I, I get it. Every country's different. I'm just not crazy about it.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if you have a life sentence, you're in there for life. There's no reason that you need to come out and do, do any of that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. I get it. He was being good or, you know, he was following all the rules. Yeah, I understand that. Okay. Maybe you get a little more rec time.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Give me extra piece of bread at dinner.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know, whatever. But to go on trips, it's just not my thing. It's. To me, it's not what prison is for.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, if you're getting out soon and they want to try to slowly introduce you back into society, depending on how you're mindset is maybe, Maybe that's a. Kind of a good thing to do. I even worry about that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm not even crazy about that. I'll be. I'll be honest with you. I understand there, there could be a rehabilitation aspect to it, but I don't know. The. The negatives just outweigh the positives for me and what could go wrong. And obviously we're going to see what goes wrong here. On December 7, 1973, Lester and three other inmates were allowed to go Christmas shopping. They were dropped off at a mall in Columbus at 10am and told to meet for pickup at 2pm they were dressed in civilian clothes and they weren't accompanied by a guard. This is a man with a life sentence. First of all, if I'm at that mall with my wife and kids, I'm not happy that convicted murderers are walking around in Levi's and flannels. I can't tell them apart.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm still stuck on what were they doing Christmas shopping. They're in a prison.

[Mike Ferguson]

Who are they shopping for? Yeah, I mean, I get it. People back home, but.

[Mike Gibson]

And if you're making like 10 cents a day stamping out License plates. I mean, what do you. How much money you have to go buy anything?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. People may not agree with me, but I just don't feel like this is the right way to go. I just don't at all not shocking to me. Lester wasn't present at 2pm According to Fox 2 Detroit, he was picked up by a close associate. A friend then drove him to Michigan. He spent about two weeks in the Detroit area before heading to California. And my thought is, Gibbs, why would you not try to get away? You have a life sentence.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, I don't know if he had possibility of parole. I can't remember in the research or if we talked about it, but especially if you didn't. And I'm thinking if your death sentence was commuted, I thought those ended up being life without parole.

[Mike Gibson]

So what's the disadvantage of him not trying?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he loses his honor status.

[Mike Gibson]

What are they going to do, say, oh, you get life plus an extra 10 for trying that. Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

It just seems like the incentive for him to run is just far too great. I'm sure you've heard a lot about GLP1s and there are a lot of potential benefits in addition to weight loss. Not only can patients lose weight, but they can also expect to have better lab numbers, more energy, new levels of confidence, and more benefits that go beyond the scale. Ro offers the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss at the lowest cost around. The new GLP1 pill has the same weight loss ingredient as the shot impacts comparable results. It can help patients lose 14% of their body weight in a year on average. That's one daily pill for fewer cravings and feeling fuller with an innovative new formula that's clinically proven to maximize weight loss. The robot membership includes access to FDA approved GLP1s, unlimited provider messaging, side effect management and more, all for just $45 for your first month and $145 per month thereafter. The RO membership fee excludes the cost of GLP1 medication. In addition to the newly approved pill, RO also offers a full suite of the most effective brand named FDA approved GLP1s, all at the lowest cost. Go to Ro Co unsolved to see if you're eligible for the new GLP1 pill on RO. That's RO CO unsolved. To get started on RO, go to RO CO Safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. The 14% weight loss claim is based on studying non diabetics with obesity or overweight, plus a weight related condition with diet and exercise. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's location in the neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks, and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in one place. Homes.com, we've done your homework. There was no trace of Lester for many years, but investigators began actively searching in the 90s. America's Most Wanted aired a segment on Lester in 1994. A California woman called in and said Lester had been living with his cousin's widow in the 70s. The widow confirmed it to detectives. According to the Columbus Dispatch, Lester stayed with a woman named Kay Banks in North Hollywood, whom he'd been corresponding with from prison.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, we know there's a lot of people that like to correspond with people in prison.

[Mike Ferguson]

My thought is, though, if she was corresponding with him, she undoubtedly knew his circumstance.

[Rick from Alabama (Voicemail Caller)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And when he shows up, I don't think she could have been in the dark about whether or not he was supposed to be out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but maybe in his correspondence with her, he put the spin on. He was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and railroad job and I really didn't do what they said I did.

[Mike Ferguson]

And, or maybe he lied and, and said he wasn't on death row. Or maybe. Or maybe he wasn't on death row at that point. Maybe he lied and said he was coming up for parole and hey, I'm getting out soon. I'm going to come see you there. There could have been something like that. But this woman was married to Lester's cousin, Daryl Banks. She later told investigators that Lester was a bully and she told him a lie by saying authorities called her phone asking about his whereabouts. And then he left her apartment after this.

[Mike Gibson]

That's one way to get rid of him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, pretty good way, actually. After he was kicked out of the widow's home, he moved to Gardena, California, where he Lived and worked at a mattress manufacturing facility until the mid-80s. Authorities believe that Lester may have been using the alias Victor Young. In California. Lester might have lived in Gardena, South Los Angeles, Long beach, and North Hollywood at various times. Mary Ellen's mother, Cassie Jones, died in 2000. Her sister Brenda died in 2014. Cassie began experiencing health issues after her daughter died. And Brenda sought counseling throughout her life, according to her sister, Brenda Myrtle Carter. And that's one thing we haven't talked about yet, is obviously this family was traumatized about what happened to their sister, their daughter. But then someone is held accountable. And so, all right, it's not perfect, but that's a good thing, I would think, for the family. But what happens when this man escapes? I can't even imagine what was going through their minds.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, I think the fear steps in. Will he come back here to hurt us?

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, even if you take that away, it's the. Well, now he's not paying for his crime.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

In January 2016, the U.S. marshals Northern Ohio Violent Fugitive Task Force Cold Case Unit got involved in the case. Sources told the U.S. marshals that Lester had gone back to Ohio several times in 2003, 2010 and 2012 to attend funerals for family members. An interview with his father indicated he may have spent time in Alabama in the early 2000s. Reverend Mose Eubanks was believed to have known his son's whereabouts and and took phone calls from Lester. According to Unsolved Mysteries, authorities tapped his phone and calls went to a teen treatment center in Alabama. Mo Z. Eubanks died in March 2012 when he was 89 years old. Staff Lt. Mike Vincent of the Bucyrus Headquarters of the Highway Patrol interviewed Lester's father. Vinson told the Columbus Dispatch he didn't admit that he knew where Lester was, just some of the statements he made. Why would he say, people change, and I pray for Lester every day if he didn't know that he was alive and well?

[Mike Gibson]

That's a good thought process.

[Mike Ferguson]

But even if he did know Gibbs right, He died in 2012. So whatever he knew at the time, that was lost when he passed away in December 2018, Lester was put on the US Marshal's Most Wanted list, and a $25,000 reward was issued. In 2019, the US Marshals were seeking approval to compare Lester's biological son's DNA against samples of DNA collected from unsolved crime scenes around the country, in hopes that it would yield a match and offer hints as to Lester's new Identity or recent location.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, there's a possibility, too, that he could be picked up for some type of crime somewhere. Or maybe they took his DNA when they took him to prison under a different alias.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's a possibility. But, I mean, to me, this is a really smart thing to do. You figure, Gibbs, this guy has been out for quite a while. We know how violent he was. Is it thought that he wasn't going to be violent anymore after he got out? That's a tough pill to swallow. So to try to match a relative's DNA against DNA from unsolved crimes, well, that might, number one, prove that he's committing more crimes, but it also might give them a sense of where he's been, where he might be at. Now, the FBI policy states familial searching is not currently conducted at the national level or performed by the National DNA Index System. The man who provided the DNA asked ABC not to identify him. He believes his mother was raped by Lester, and he wants to see the marshals, find him and bring him to justice.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow, that's got to be a tough scenario for that individual.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. In October 2020, the US Marshals increased the reward from $25,000 to $50,000. The Marshals also noted that the Unsolved Mysteries episode released around that time was seeing significant success. Brian Fitzgibbon of the Marshall Service told the News Journal, he's alive. I feel we're getting closer. In March 2021, authorities confirmed that Lester was being sought in the Los Angeles area after the Marshals Service obtained photographs that allegedly showed him working and socializing with people in Los Angeles county, including a former waterbed factory in Gardena.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, at this point, it's got to be harder for Lester to move around and get away. Right. Because now, I mean, you're in the year 2021, so many things are electronic.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we get harder every year. Yeah, right. As the years go by.

[Mike Gibson]

And he's also a whole lot older.

[Mike Ferguson]

Deputy U.S. marshal David Seiler told NBC Los Angeles. We believe that he may have never left the greater LA area. We know that he has a footprint there. We know that he has associates throughout the area. We just need to talk to those people. And let's face it, you know, LA is a very populous area.

[Mike Gibson]

It really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

You think la, New York City, are those places, the worst place in the world to try to hide? I would argue no, because of the amount of people there.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's one of the places you could probably, probably hide pretty good.

[Mike Ferguson]

And get lost. I mean, you're not going to go to a small town of 500. No, that wouldn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[Mike Gibson]

But that's even why, you know, Whitey Bulger went out to California, near la, right, because he knew that he could blend in and very unlikely that he would be found, of course.

[Mike Ferguson]

Although he was.

[Mike Gibson]

Of course, they eventually did.

[Mike Ferguson]

In May 2025, the U.S. marshals, working with the national center for Missing and Exploited Children, released an updated age progression photo of Lester showing what he may look like at age 81. On August 5, 2025, the marshals announced new DNA evidence that could help with the investigation. Over several months, the U.S. mississippi cold case Unit worked closely with the Mansfield Police Department and the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office in an attempt to extract DNA from the clothing worn by Lester on the night of the murder. The Medical Examiner's Office was able to extract the DNA, and it has been entered into codis. The last known sighting of Lester was in Southern California in the 1970s. And like we said, he was going by the alias Victor Young and was known to be in Gardena, South Central Long beach and North Hollywood. It's also believed he was working as a janitor at St. Francis Medical center in Lynwood in the late 80s or early 90s. Lester is described as a 5 foot 11 black male with black hair and brown eyes. When he vanished, he weighed 175 pounds. He has a mole under his left eye and a large scar on his upper right arm. Lester, which wraps all the way around his arm. Lester is believed to have friends and family in Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Alabama, California and Washington. According to the U.S. marshals Service website, anyone with information concerning a wanted fugitive can contact the Northern Ohio Violent Fugitive task force at 1-866-for- wanted, or you can submit a web tip. Reward money is available and tipsters may remain anonymous. So, Gibbs, as we wrap this one up, no doubt about it, this guy committed some horrible offenses to the point where he was given the death penalty. The Supreme Court nullified that, you know, in their ruling. I'm still shocked that this man was allowed to go to the mall essentially unsupervised for four hours.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, what, he's 82 now? He's been on the run for 53 years. At what point do you think he stopped, Karen? If he. If they did find him, or you think he still cares? Or you think he's like, you know what? I'm not going to run like I used to. But if they get me. They get me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, number one, is he still alive? Yeah. You know, we don't even know the answer to that question. If he is, man, he has done an amazing job of eluding the authorities. Sure. Yeah. Because there have been quite a few different agencies who have been looking for him. I mean, he's on the US Marshals top, you know, most wanted list.

[Rick from Alabama (Voicemail Caller)]

Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not a list you want to be on.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they seem to know very little about him recently. And you just wonder, is that because he's so good at it, or is it because he died 40 years ago and we just don't know about it?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's true. So the sad thing is that he did horrible things that he never paid the price for.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Because he was allowed to go to the mall, walk around the food court. Apparently, he called somebody and said, hey, come get me, and he's gone.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe when he was out, he changed his life and became this, like, really good guy. But does that justify him not paying for what he did?

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Nothing does. The flip side of that is, is it more likely that he turned his life around, he became this great guy, or that he kept doing these horrible things and just didn't get caught?

[Mike Gibson]

So that's really risky. Right. If you're going to keep doing the same thing, the odds are not going to be in your favor unless you're really good at it. And I don't.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe he was, but that doesn't seem to enter into or factor into the equation for a lot of these individuals. They know how risky it is to continue to. To commit these type of crimes. But there's something that pulls them or compels them to do it, or the feeling they get, or whatever it is overrides the risk, or else they wouldn't keep doing it. So I don't know the answer. There's so much here that's unanswered, unanswerable, because Bam found this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

It.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it wouldn't surprise me at all, Gibbs, if at some point, they do link him to additional crimes throughout the years where they do have DNA, you know, that they got from a crime scene. That wouldn't surprise me at all. It wouldn't. Also wouldn't surprise me if this guy's already deceased.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's what I'm kind of thinking at this point, being that if he was alive, he'd be 82 in a couple of months.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he would turn 82, so, yeah. I don't know. Will they ever find him? Maybe if he's still alive. But even if they do, they're going to send him back to prison. How much time on this earth does he have left? He got to spend. Even if they caught him tomorrow, he got to spend 50 plus years, his prime life. Yeah. Out free. Why? Because you let him go to the.

[Mike Gibson]

Mall, the Christmas shop.

[Mike Ferguson]

Like a teenager.

[Mike Gibson]

Crazy.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just don't get it. But that's it for our episode on Lester Eubanks. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Rick from Alabama (Voicemail Caller)]

Hey, Mike and Gibby, this is Rick in Alabama, longtime listener friend of the show. I have a case that I think would be perfect for you. For unsolved, it's the Sean Suter case, a police detective who was killed in Baltimore City. The circumstances are extremely interesting and to this day there's a lot of questions about how he actually met his demise. But anyway, I think you should look into it. It'd be a great one. A lot of twists and turns, a lot of interesting things involved with it. And hey, keep up the good work. I'll keep listening. Thanks.

[Mike Ferguson]

I appreciate the voicemail. And that's definitely one we'll look into. I'm not familiar with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, be interesting to do a little deeper dive.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep, sounds like it would be. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. At Pluto tv, we're celebrating Black History Month with our free curated collection of black entertainment. No. No ifs, ands or buts about catch award winning films like Dreamgirls, Monster's Ball and Selma. We must make a massive demonstration. Iconic hits like School Days and Set It Off. Plus full seasons of shows like Tyler Perry's Sistas and Power. I got you. It's star studded, brilliant black entertainment. And it's all free. It's getting good this month and always on Pluto tv. Streamed now.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey.

[Mike Ferguson]

Never.

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