Lynn Messer

Summary

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True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode 448: The Unsolved Murder of Lynn Messer

Release Date: January 19, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike “Gibby” Gibson

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Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson dive deep into the mysterious 2014 disappearance and subsequent death of Lynn Messer, a Missouri farm wife and mother whose remains were discovered two years later on her own property. The hosts meticulously walk through the case, discussing the circumstances of her disappearance, the personalities involved—including her husband, conservative lobbyist Kerry Messer—and the family tensions and rumors that followed. As with many of their episodes, the hosts blend thorough research with conversational banter, highlighting both the dark and bizarre elements of Lynn’s case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lynn Messer’s Background and Family Dynamics

• Lynn Messer: Born June 4, 1962, devoted wife and mother, known for her selflessness and hard work on the 280-acre family farm in Bloomsdale, Missouri.
• Marriage: Married to Kerry Messer for 38 years. Two adult sons: Aaron and Abram. Family known for involvement in socially conservative activism; Kerry is the president of Missouri Family Network.
• Family Structure: Lynn and Kerry lived in one house, son Abram and his family in another half-mile away (04:37).
• Quote:

  “That sounds like a really busy wife and mother who is very devoted to her family.” (04:13, Mike Ferguson)

2. The Disappearance (July 8, 2014)

• Discovery: Kerry reported Lynn missing at dawn. Her wallet, cellphone, keys, and walking boot (for her broken toe) were all left behind (06:41).
• Immediate Concerns: No sign of forced entry or evidence of struggle; thunderstorm erased possible footprints.
• Host Analysis:

  "None of these are things that most people leave behind when they leave their home." (07:49, Mike Ferguson)
  “To me, just not a good sign.” (08:22, Mike Ferguson)

• Searches: Despite hundreds of searches and use of dogs, no evidence turned up.
• Volunteer Efforts: Kerry organized community searches and set up the “Find Lynn Messer” Facebook page.

3. Mental Health and Family Speculation

• Public Speculation: Media and some anonymous family members initially floated theories of depression and suicide, which Kerry denied.
• Pain and Medication: Lynn had a long history of chronic pain; had hip replacement surgery which ultimately didn’t resolve her pain. Recently prescribed new medication, potentially causing adverse reactions (10:28).
• Kerry’s Perspective:

  "I believe there may have been an adverse mental reaction to those pills." (13:35, Kerry via Missouri Times, as quoted by Mike Ferguson)

• Family Conflicts: Intrafamily disputes surfaced, especially between Kerry and sons over Lynn’s state of mind and the timeline of events.
• Quote:

  “I’ve been accused of everything in the book. I’ve been accused of baling my wife up in a baler. I’ve been accused of burying her. I’ve been accused of feeding her to hogs. We don’t even own any hogs.” (13:18, Kerry via interview)

4. The Note & Kerry’s Odd Behavior

• The Note: Lynn wrote a nondescript apology note; its meaning became a point of contention among family and investigators (27:00).
• Police Reaction: Law enforcement initially advised Kerry not to mention the note publicly; suspected it might be a cover for murder.
• Son’s Contradictions: Abram contested Kerry’s narration, saying Aaron called police first, not Kerry, and that Kerry’s actions and timeline did not match what he told reporters.
• Kerry’s Movements: Unexplained gaps in his whereabouts the morning Lynn disappeared, confrontational responses to his sons, and efforts to keep family members away during the investigation (34:22).

5. Relationship with Spring Thomas

• Spring Thomas: Family friend who became Kerry’s companion after Lynn’s disappearance; both police and Abram allege the relationship may have started before Lynn went missing (17:43, 56:36).
• Suspicion:

  “How can he be in what he has admitted is a romantic relationship with another woman if he truly has no idea if she could walk through that door at any minute?” (18:08, Abram via Missouri Times)

• Family Tensions:

  “His own son and other family members think at the very least he’s not being fully truthful.” (62:54, Mike Ferguson)

6. Discovery of Lynn’s Remains (Nov 1, 2016)

• Found By: Aaron and his two daughters, who were scouting for hunting locations (51:29).
• Scene: Remains “as expected”—glasses, blankets, pillow—suggesting intent to “say goodbye,” but also possible purposeful staging (53:01).
• Location: Thick undergrowth in a previously searched area. The hosts debate whether she was there the entire time or placed later.
• Official Stance: Cause of death undetermined; evidence was inconclusive due to time elapsed (62:36).

7. Family Fallout & Ongoing Questions

• Abram’s Claims: Accused father of controlling behavior, financial secrecy, and manipulating family dynamics. Alleged Kerry dismissed the idea of professional help for Lynn’s mental health.
• Public Appeals: Abram repeatedly called for his father to “tell the truth” (55:01).
• Financial Motive: Kerry controlled all financial interests ($2.5 million estimated) and was described as image-obsessed.
• Media & Timelines: Lynn’s remains found days after filming of a “Disappeared” TV episode; some found timing suspicious (61:24).
• Current Status: No charges laid; family and public opinion deeply divided; many unresolved questions remain.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Love at First Sight/Awkward Banter:

  “Do you ever have love at first bite?” (04:15, Mike Gibson)
  “No. No. I’m also not a vampire or into some of the strange things that you’re into—but it was an okay movie.” (04:17, Mike Ferguson)

• Searching the Farm:

  “Carrie threw a fit, saying they’re wasting their time searching the farm. She’s long gone by now.” (39:10, recounted by Abram)

• Host Skepticism:

  “Can you really search 280 acres in the dark, in the rain, in a few hours? There is nobody doing a complete grid search of that amount of land in that amount of time.” (40:34, Mike Ferguson)

• Control & Image:

  “Abram alleged that Kerry withheld financial information from Lynn. He also controlled Lynn’s hair and clothing choices because he was concerned about appearances…one man who made 100% of the decisions and called 100% of the shots.” (49:35, recapping Abram)

• Public Appeal:

  “For two years, I’ve been begging my father to tell the truth…Every time I have pressed him…his reactions have become angrier and more volatile.” (55:01, Abram)

• On Motive and Circumstantial Evidence:

  “If he’s having an affair during the time before Lynn goes missing, yeah, there’s a motive. The $2.5 million farm and all the assets they had, that’s a motive.” (63:59, Mike Ferguson)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:32 | Lynn Messer’s background and family introduction | | 06:41 | Lynn’s disappearance; timeline and details of what was left behind | | 13:18 | Kerry addresses rumors and suspicions; “I’ve been accused of everything…” | 17:43 | Spring Thomas and the “if anything happens…” remark | | 27:00 | Discovery and significance of Lynn’s note | | 34:22 | Timeline discrepancies; sons’ accounts vs. Kerry’s narrative | | 39:10 | Kerry’s reaction to farm search; assertion Lynn “long gone” | | 49:35 | Control and manipulation claims from Abram | | 51:29 | Discovery of Lynn’s remains, details by Aaron Messer | | 55:01 | Abram publicly urges Kerry to “tell the truth” | | 61:24 | Peculiar timing of TV filming and remains’ discovery | | 62:36 | Current state: cause of death undetermined, no charges, divided family | | 63:59 | Hosts summarize possible motives and uncertainties |

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Tone & Final Thoughts

In characteristic style, Ferguson and Gibson balance compassion for the victim with a critical, sometimes light-hearted, look at the complexities and eccentricities of those involved. They raise serious doubts about Kerry Messer’s actions and motives, especially given family testimony and unexplained behaviors, but also acknowledge there is no concrete proof tying anyone to foul play. The lingering question at the heart of the episode is whether this case is truly unsolvable—or if someone (or multiple people) is purposefully hiding the truth.

Closing Reflection:

“But I do think that this is a case that’s solvable. There is someone, or maybe more than one someone, who knows what happened to Lynn Messer.” (63:54, Mike Ferguson)

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For more in-depth true crime discussion from Ferguson and Gibson, listen weekly to True Crime All The Time Unsolved.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well, from roof repair to emergency plumbing and more done well. So the next time you have a home project, leave it to the pros. Get [e-mail].

[B]

Cults are everywhere. They don't just live in the walls of NXIVM and Scientology.

[C]

There are sex cults, self help cults, workout cults, political cults, even legging cults.

[B]

And on the podcast Was I in a Cult? We focus on the brave individuals who have lived through through them.

[C]

I'm Liz Ayakuzi.

[B]

And I'm Tyler Meesum.

[C]

Your hosts of Was I in a Cult?

[B]

Join us each week as we take you through a heroic roller coaster of someone's journey in and out of a.

[C]

Cult with a little levity thrown in. Because humor is healing and cults are funny.

[B]

Listen to and follow Was I in a Cult? At Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, which for Tyler is.

[C]

At Rite Aid on tape.

[D]

Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 448 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Good.

[E]

I'm doing really well.

[D]

I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Heather Mayhew.

[E]

What's going on, Mayhew?

[D]

Isaiah McLinney.

[E]

Hey, McLinney.

[D]

Omen.

[E]

Omen. Or maybe it's Amen.

[D]

No, I don't think so. Sherry. Parkinson.

[E]

What's going on? Parkinson.

[D]

Kimberly. Carter.

[E]

Hey, Carter.

[D]

Christiane. Agent.

[E]

I think it's Aljant.

[D]

Okay, could be. Yeah. Crystal. Gilly.

[E]

What's happening? Gilly.

[D]

Chrissy. Patrone.

[E]

Well, thanks, Patron. Pull me another.

[D]

And then if we go back into the vault. This week we selected Sherry Velez.

[E]

Well, that's awesome, Valdez.

[D]

Yeah. So we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We were talking about it on Tcat, Gibbs, but we are building a new studio and we have a lot of new stuff coming out in the next few weeks, Both on Patreon, YouTube extra episodes. We got some stuff in the hopper.

[E]

I'm excited. I'm also excited to carve my initials into the new furniture.

[D]

Please don't. We have a brand new episode out right now on True crime all the time. Well, we're talking about Jermaine Ross. He was a popular barber in Illinois who went missing after an Appointment and his body was later found inside his home. But leading up to his death, Jermaine had alluded to different people that he was having problems with some individuals, but he wasn't specific about it. So authorities had to narrow down a pretty wide suspect pool to identify the killer.

[E]

I felt like it was a pretty interesting case.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And I think people will as well. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime? All the Time Unsolved?

[E]

I am.

[D]

We're talking about the unsolved murder of Lynn Messer. 52 year old Lynn Messer went missing in 2014. Two years later, her body was found on her family's farm Property in Bloomsdale, Missouri. Lynn Marie Hooch, later Messer, was born on June 4, 1962. Lynn met her future husband, Kerry Messer, when he was a senior in high school. Carrie recalled looking out the bus window and seeing Lynn saying it was love at first sight. You ever have that love at first sight?

[E]

I've had love at first sight. You've had love at first sight?

[D]

I have.

[E]

I know.

[D]

And 30 years later, I'm still married.

[E]

Do you ever have love at first bite?

[D]

No. No. I'm also not a vampire or into some of the strange things that you're into, but it was an okay movie.

[E]

I don't know if you ever saw that.

[D]

I didn't. I. I assumed you were talking about some of your proclivities that we can't mention.

[E]

Yeah. That's why I didn't want to dive too deep into that. Yeah.

[D]

On the episode. Carrie and Lynn were married for 38 years. They had two sons, Aaron and Abram, who were adults at the time of Lynn's disappearance. Lynn was a devoted mother. Abram recalled to KFVS 12 whether it meant that she had to make clothes so we had what we needed, or whether it meant that she spent hour after hour gardening and preparing food and planning out meals to make sure that we didn't go without. That's selfless love. And that sounds like a really busy wife and mother who is very devoted to her family.

[E]

A lot of planning.

[D]

Yeah, it's a lot of work. The Messer family owned and operated a 280 acre farm in Bloomsdale, Missouri. Carrie and Lynn lived in one home and their son Abram and his family lived in a home about a half a mile away. Abram helped manage the farm.

[E]

That's not a little farm.

[D]

No, that's a. Seems like a hell. I'm not a farmer, but it seems pretty healthy. 280 acres. The Missouri Times described Kerry as a prominent conservative lobbyist. Kerry is president of an organization called Missouri Family Network. In his lobbying efforts focus on traditionally socially conservative issues. Per the Missouri Times. His son Abram previously worked alongside him for Missouri Family Network. Carrie reported lynn missing on July 8, 2014. But I do want to take a step back for just a minute. Being described as a prominent conservative lobbyist. Gibbs, do you think that in that role you could potentially rub some people the wrong way?

[E]

Oh, absolutely, you could.

[D]

People who do not ascribe or believe in the same things that you do.

[E]

Would not be uncommon for that to occur.

[D]

And I just wanted to talk about it because, you know, as we go into this murder mystery, do we have to take that into account? The police have to take that into account. Carrie reported lynn missing on July 8, 2014. He told police that he woke up around 4am and couldn't find Lynn anywhere. Her cell phone, wallet and keys were still in the house. She also left behind the walking boot she had been using to get around due to a broken toe.

[E]

Did you ever break your toe before?

[D]

Yeah, actually a few times. It's frustrating because there's just not a whole lot they can do for it. You just got to ride it out and eventually they're just all end up being kind of broken and, you know, broken down. Hurt like heck as you get older. Oh, yeah, yeah, it hurt. Some of them still do.

[E]

I mean, I've stowed my toe before and you know, jump around, hopping around, cussing. Oh, yeah, whatever piece of furniture did it to you. And then eventually it gets better. But I never broke a toe before.

[D]

Yeah, I've broken a couple. I broke my ankle once, which was very painful. But let's talk about what was left behind because we always do, right? Cell phone, wallet, keys. Seems like this crops up in many cases and none of these are things that most people leave behind when they leave their home. And then you obviously got the walking boot.

[E]

I mean, it's 2014. You think you would want your cell phone, probably would need a wallet. And if you're going anywhere far, you're going to need your keys.

[D]

To me, just not a good sign. The St. Genevieve County Sheriff's office and Missouri Highway Patrol found no evidence of foul play. There was no evidence of a break in. There was a thunderstorm around the time Lynn went missing, so there were no footprints or signs of a struggle. Over time, police conducted hundreds of searches on the farm and surrounding areas. Carrie led a volunteer effort to find Lind and created the Facebook Page find Lynn Messer. All things that, you know, to me, you would expect a loved one to do. Spouse, a significant other.

[E]

Kind of like minimal, right?

[D]

Yeah. The page noted that search dogs picked up Linsent, but it was uncertain as to the age of the scent. Lyn was an active participant in farm activities and spent time in each field conducting grass evaluations days before she disappeared. So, to me, I'm thinking that must have made it tougher for the dogs because she's outside all over the place all the time. If I go missing and a dog picks up my scent, that is a very strong clue.

[E]

I would agree.

[D]

If it's outside this house, because I don't leave the house all that much ever. All that much sometimes. Sources close to the family told the Missouri Times that the farm was meticulously searched. Early news reports speculated that Lynn was suffering from depression, which Carrie denied. Anonymous sources within the family also claim Lyn did not suffer from depression. There was speculation that Kerry was involved.

[E]

Kind of typical, though.

[D]

Well, I think it's typical that, you know, the police have to rule out the husband, the significant other. Now, what does it mean? There was speculation. Is that on the part of the authorities or on the part of the family?

[E]

Makes a difference.

[D]

Yeah. Law enforcement had no leads and no evidence as to what happened to Lynn. In August 2014, Cary shared his personal theory with the Missouri Times. He explained that for a decade, Lynn suffered severe pain in both of her hips as a result of a condition that could only be fixed with a hip replacement. But doctors wouldn't perform the hip replacement until Lynn was older. Carrie said for years, it was all about pain management, and that's a very difficult thing. Anyone can tell you that pain management can also be very difficult emotionally as well. Close to her surgery date, Lynn was in a car accident that injured her shoulder. She worried doctors would postpone her hip replacement and until her upper body could bear more weight during rehab. So she hid the injury and went through hip rehab with a damaged shoulder. Lynn still exceeded her doctor's expectations for her recovery. And. And to me, that just tells you how bad this hip was hurting her.

[E]

Yeah, she was willing to do about anything to make sure she get surgery done.

[D]

Yeah, she did not want it put off. After hip rehab and shoulder surgery, Lynn felt ecstatic. According to Carrie, she'd been planning for the better part of 11 years what she would do, how her activities would change once she was pain free again. She was very much looking forward to 20 years without pain. After 11 years with pain, that's Something to celebrate. Yeah. Because living with chronic pain, I mean that is horrible. It really is. To carry this was one indication Lynn had no intentions of harming herself. And. Okay, that makes sense to me. You would think if she was going to harm herself, it would have been during the midst of this 11 year horrible battle with pain.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Not after. She was pain free after and able to live a much improved quality of life. Sadly though, the pain came back. Lynn's doctor told her that the pain was in part of the bone that could not be replaced. There was no cure and Lynn had to go back to pain management. She was described a new pain medication. Carrie told the Missouri Times, I believe there may have been an adverse mental reaction to those pills. I've had some folks say that it would be flushed out of her system by now. But based on some of the research I've done, that's not necessarily a guarantee. I think it's possible that there's a long term mental reaction here and that she may be in a very confused state. And then over a year passed without any significant updates in the case. In May 2016, Carrie spoke with the Missouri Times to answer questions about Lynn's disappearance. He said in his interview, I've been accused of everything in the book. I've been accused of bailing my wife up in a baler. I've been accused of burying her. I've been accused of feeding her to hogs. We don't even own any hogs. It's taken me a long time dealing and being able to talk about some of that stuff. There are naysayers who continue to throw accusations out about people who disagree with my politics or positions on issues. People who know zero about Lynn and me.

[E]

Well, when you have a mystery like this, it comes with a territory, right?

[D]

All the accusations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sure does. Now the. The feeding to the hogs. Okay. You get some Robert Pickton vibes.

[E]

I was thinking.

[D]

I also always think of signs of the lambs. You got to what that guy was going to do to to Hannibal once he captured him. The Times revealed that Lynn was prescribed anti anxiety medication and struggle with anxiety in recent years. Despite Car's claims that she was not receiving mental health treatment. Carrie also shared a note that Lynn wrote before she went missing. Additionally, he claimed that Lynn told someone the day before she went missing, if anything happens to me, I want him to marry Spring Thomas. Spring Thomas is a family friend who became Carrie's companion during the grieving process. Seems a little strange for a woman to tell someone right before she goes missing, if anything happens to me, I want my husband to marry this specific woman.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

I don't know who thinks about that kind of stuff. And if they do think about it, how many people are verbalizing it to someone else? I, I, I just, yeah, I don't know. I know my wife would never say that. She would probably say, if anything happens to me, my husband is a true crime podcaster. He should be looked at intently.

[E]

And if not him, that gibby guy that does it with him.

[D]

Carrie said, so while she did disappear, it really, on top of all the other emotional toil and upset and everything stuck in my mind. And that resulted in our starting of conversations. Spring was in a tailspin over it because she knew nothing of it beforehand. Anyway, we weren't talking marriage, but I was talking with her because that was stuck in my head. Carrie recalled that Lynn had mentioned Spring Thomas before several years earlier. They discussed what they would do if something happened to the other person. They discussed how Carrie was a full time volunteer lobbyist who relied on donations. Lyn decided that she would go into the hog business if something happened to him and remain on the family farm. Carrie wasn't sure what he would do if something happened to Lynn. After several years of this conversation, Lyn initiated the idea that he would remarry if something happened to her. They both gave each other permission to remarry. Now, that kind of conversation, to me doesn't sound like it would be too off the wall, but the very specific mentioning of this one woman, that does seem strange.

[E]

It does. It's kind of bizarre.

[D]

Yeah. If you tell your spouse, if anything happens to me, live your life. Find somebody new. Okay, I get that. I'm sure many people have said that, but I wouldn't say, you know, if something happens to me, go, go marry that hunky guy who lives down the street. I don't want that to happen. No.

[E]

Let me know how it goes this weekend when you tell your wife, hey, if something happens to me, feel free to marry somebody. And by the way, if something happens to you, I'm going to remarry too.

[D]

Okay? And here's who I'm going to remarry.

[E]

See how well it goes. Let me know.

[D]

A source close to the investigation questioned Kerry's relationship with Spring Thomas, telling the Times it started that we can confirm in the fall of 2014. I know that he loved Lyn. How can he be in what he has admitted is a romantic relationship with another woman if he truly has no idea if she could Walk through that door at any minute. Yeah.

[E]

I mean, that's the question I was thinking, right. It's 2014. She disappeared in 2014, you're already in a romantic relationship. I don't know. I mean, could it happen? Yeah.

[D]

It just seems it's going to be awkward if your wife walks in the door and says, I'm back.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And I was kidnapped or something and I managed to get away and. So glad to come home and see you shacking up with.

[E]

Well, what's her name?

[D]

Yeah. Spring Thomas. Carrie acknowledged that law enforcement investigated both him and Spring, and police were aware of the relationship. Kerry claimed law enforcement looked at five of his computers and his cell phones. He said, law enforcement will never talk to me, but they know they don't have any kind of evidence of any kind of affair. Now, obviously, he is on their radar. He would be regardless.

[E]

Sure.

[D]

But the fact that he has this relationship and it starts so quickly after his wife's disappearance that, that, that's going to make police look at him, you know, even closer. In his interview, Kerry further discussed Lynn's emotional struggle, saying, the biggest one was about 20 days prior to her disappearance, she found out that her hip replacement surgery had not removed the pain. And all the plans that she was making for what her life was going to be like for the next 20 years went out the window. And she was very, very upset about that. Tremendously upset. Personally, at this point, looking back, I really believe that had a lot more to do with this than anything else.

[E]

Well, I think it would be devastating to somebody to, you know, finally look, to finally think that you're going to be over this terrible part of your life, living in pain now. You're going to be pain free and you're going to go out and just take the world on to only find out that the pain's back and you can't do anything that you wanted to do.

[D]

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[E]

Yeah, that's a lot of people, let.

[D]

Alone 200 people that I would feel comfortable confiding personal details of my life with.

[E]

Yeah. Hey, can I talk to you for a minute?

[D]

It's like people at the mall. Is he stopping people in the, in the food court?

[E]

Yeah, it seems a little extreme.

[D]

Carrie also spoke about issues with the investigation. And he explained the two big issues that were very frustrating was one, reading that in the media when it wasn't accurate, and two, her having a so called broken foot. I kept telling people that she doesn't have a broken foot. She has a cracked pinky toe. She walks with a small limp with her tennis shoes on top of that. She's on pain meds. She had a walking boot, but she wore it leading steers in a show ring and practicing with steers because that's how she got it broken. Cracked in the first place was when a 1000 pound steer stepped on her foot. She didn't want that repeated. And I don't know who would.

[E]

Yeah, that wouldn't be good. So basically he's saying she didn't really need that, that she could get around okay in her tennis shoes.

[D]

Yeah, she only used it in her showing of steers. The second issue was that law enforcement never went beyond the immediate farm and immediate areas around the farm, which was very, very frustrating for us, for me, because they were talking about the suicide side of this. We were trying to think if that was part of it. Also, the Mississippi river is eight or nine miles away. Lynn is known to walk those kinds of distances regularly. Even in the middle of the night. She would walk out on the road. She would take several mile walks in the middle of the night when she couldn't sleep. That was not unusual for her. The fact that they never went to the river has always been a frustration. I don't mean to criticize law enforcement, it's just that they fixated on this so called broken foot. Well, did they fixate on the broken foot or did they fixate on carry his relationship with this other woman? Now the broken foot might have been a part of it. Or the cracked pinky toe.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

But let's not forget the wallet, the cell phone.

[E]

True.

[D]

The keys. Now I get it. She wouldn't maybe take all of that if she was going on a, a walk. But would you really walk eight or nine miles if you had a cracked.

[E]

Pinky toe and you had all the problems with your Hips?

[D]

Yes. It doesn't seem right. According to the Missouri Times, the shortest path on foot from the Messer property to the river is just over nine miles and would take the average person over three hours to walk. Sources close to the family did agree it was normal for Lynn to take such a long walk. But they questioned why Carrie seemed panicked the next morning. If it was normal for her to take long walks at night. And maybe this is normal for a lot of people. It does not seem normal in my world. For members of my family. There's no one getting up at two or three o' clock in the morning to take a nine mile walk.

[E]

There's nobody in your family getting up anytime and taking a nine mile walk.

[D]

My wife does walk, but that's about it. But let's not forget that's nine miles there and another nine miles to get back.

[E]

Well, that's true.

[D]

That's six hours.

[E]

That's a long day.

[D]

Carrie told the paper Lynn left a nondescript note that doesn't say what she was doing, but she did leave an apology note. That caused me to panic that night. That's why I was focused on getting law enforcement involved so quickly. Law enforcement on the second day asked me not to talk about it. So I never talked about it. It was 10 months later that I found out they didn't want me to talk about the note because they thought I wrote the note to cover up a murder. So I've been through the interrogations. It's like they've done everything but waterboard me. It's amazing what they do to husbands.

[E]

Well, I don't know why they wouldn't want him to mention it to the press. I mean, maybe it helps solve the.

[D]

Case or maybe it takes the focus off of him, which they didn't want to do. I don't know. The Times also reported that Lyn talked to women at her church about experiencing long term anxiety. Kerry said about this, then we have these questions of depression. Lyn has had the same thing that many, many people do where their medical doctor prescribes an anti anxiety medication. It's not anti depression medication. It's totally different things. And she's never seen a mental health professional in her life. And I actually thought about that when the police said that he said she's never had mental health issues. Yeah. Now I think technically anxiety is.

[E]

Yeah, I think so.

[D]

But I don't know that a lot of laypeople would naturally associate the two because anxiety is very, very common.

[E]

Really is.

[D]

And there are some people who Might not think that that is technically a mental health issue. And I think he's trying to explain kind of that here. After Kerry spoke to the Daily Journal ahead of the two year anniversary, his son Abram expressed his desire to share his account of what happened prior to and following his mother's disappearance. Abram told the Daily Journal in July 2016, what I have to say and what my father has been saying for the last two years are literally worlds apart. And it's very difficult for everybody who's involved. It's not like what I have to say and what my father has to say is two different versions of the same thing. They're light years apart.

[E]

Okay, well that's going to be controversial.

[D]

Yeah. Obviously he's about ready to drop a bombshell at least as it pertains to his version. Not lining up at all with what his father has been saying for a couple of years now. Abram said that Kerry was not the one who first called law enforcement on July 8, 2014. It was his brother, Aaron. Abram noted that going by Carrie's timeline, there was a four hour period before law enforcement was called. Abram noted that Cary left the farm at least twice that morning. Abram recalled his father showing up at his house at 4:15am and asking what time he was at their house, meaning Carrie and Lynn's house with the four wheeler. Carrie knew Abram had driven the four wheeler home the day before. Abram was confused why his father was at his house so early. When he told his dad he took the four wheeler the day before, his father said okay, turned around and walked away. And I can tell you right now, if my dad shows up at the house at 4:15am it's not going to be a good scene.

[E]

No.

[D]

First of all, it means I've only been in bed for about an hour because I do stay up very late.

[E]

Yeah. And you're not a pleasant waker.

[D]

No, no, I am not. But really, should anybody be at your house at 4:15 and I, I would argue no.

[E]

And if they do, you would think it'd be serious enough that they would have more than four wheeler questions.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And just leave.

[D]

Right. I mean if, now, if there's an emergency, they've tried to call you, they can't get a hold of you. That. I understand that part. But to ask a question about a four wheeler, does that really need to be done in person at 4:15am and I would say no.

[E]

Yeah, give me a call instead.

[D]

Better yet, a text and I can reply at my leisure.

[E]

Oh, I see what you did there.

[D]

Been watching some British shows lately.

[E]

You like that? British?

[D]

British. According to Abram, he was at my house in his pickup truck, standing on my porch without a shirt on. And he turns around and he walks away. He walks all the way to the end of the house. And right before he steps off back into the rain, he says, I don't know where your mother is and I don't know what's going on. And then he walks away. Okay, first of all, what's the man doing without a shirt on? I get it. It's raining out. Maybe didn't want his shirt to get wet. Maybe he's just showing off the guns for, you know, Whoever's up at 4:15 in the morning.

[E]

When I'm out on the farm, I take my shirt off all the time. Something about the farm air.

[D]

I know you're trying to impress livestock. I don't know why. Makes no sense. It was normal for Abram to take the four wheeler if he was working late. At the time he only had one vehicle. And if his wife needed the car, he would walk to his parents house and drive the four wheeler home. In his 2016 interview, Abram also expressed confusion about why Carrie didn't say anything about Lyn's note. After this early morning interaction, Abram went back inside and told his wife what just happened. A thought struck him then. His parents had a fully furnished apartment in a shed across the driveway from their home. They were having septic problems in their house, so they had been using the bathroom in the apartment. Abram thought Lyn was probably in the apartment and. But he eventually started to question this assumption. And you asked the question earlier, Gibbs. Why does the police not really want him talking about the note? I get it. At some point they did tell him. We don't want you talking to people about the note. But he doesn't tell his son about the note.

[E]

Which seems strange, right?

[D]

Which would have been before. Probably the police told him, hey, don't tell people about the note. That morning, Abram dozed off and Woke up around 7am he picked up his phone expecting to see a text informing him his mother was at the apartment, but there was nothing. He tried calling Cary's cell and house phone, but received no answer, even after several calls. Cary called him back between 7:30 and 8am and said he didn't know where Lyn was. But because of a note she left, he was probably going to have to call the sheriff's department. Abram asked Carrie what he wanted him to do he expected that his father would tell him to come down and help look for Lynn. Carrie instructed him to move the cows. He said Abram didn't need to come to the house and didn't need to do anything.

[E]

Well, damn it, we're running a farm here. We got to keep that farm running. This is like an episode from the.

[D]

Ranch, which was a funny show.

[E]

It really was, by the way.

[D]

But this is strange, right? You have the note that he does tell him about on the phone call, doesn't tell him about it when he sees him in person. And then if you're so worried that you're saying you're going to call the sheriff's department, wouldn't you want your son to come help you?

[E]

I would think, like, let the cows wait.

[D]

Yeah, let's move the cows later. I get it. Farming is an all in operation. But when someone is missing, that's kind of all hands on deck, right?

[E]

I think so.

[D]

Abram intended on moving the cows right away and heading to the house afterwards. But his brother called him and asked if he knew what was going on. Abram told him what happened that morning. Aaron then said Carrie had told him about the note and he called the police. There's a difference there, right? Aaron is saying that he called the police. Carrie said earlier that he was the one who called police. Abram moved the cows and found his father in the barn lot. When he drove up, Carrie yelled at him that he needed to leave and couldn't be down there because Aaron already called the police. He said his father was so animated and angry that he complied. As he was driving away, he met the first responding officer. Abram pulled over and spoke to the officer for a few minutes about everything that had happened so far. And I just. I don't get it. I understand you've called the police. Police are going to come in. They're going to investigate. But why are you pushing your family away? Why wouldn't you have them there to support you? I don't know. Every family dynamic is different. We know that.

[E]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

[D]

It just doesn't seem like what most families would do or what most fathers would do.

[E]

I just would be from that standpoint of all hands on deck. Mom's missing. We gotta find her. Need everybody here. And call in some of our. Our friends as well.

[D]

Yeah. Apparently he had 200 of them, or at least acquaintances he met at the mall.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Abram returned to his house and talked to his wife. As he was cleaning himself up, his wife told him There was a caravan of SUVs going down Kerry's driveway. The sheriff and his deputies were standing in the driveway and a detective was processing the house. The sheriff asked Carrie if Lynn was ever depressed. Carrie raised his voice and said, according to Abram, no, she has never been depressed, never had anxiety, and has never done anything suicidal. Okay, so we talked about this. No, she's never had mental health issues. I said, could it be that maybe Carrie didn't think anxiety fell under that umbrella?

[E]

Right.

[D]

I think that's plausible that somebody could be under that assumption. But he definitely knew she had anxiety. So if he really did make the statement, she's never been depressed, never had anxiety, that would be a strange statement to make.

[E]

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, that was his opportunity to go ahead and say, well, she does have some anxiety.

[D]

At that time, Abram's wife Elizabeth arrived and asked if he told the police about the cats. She recounted a time when Lynn went to the barn with the intention of ending her life, but shot the cats instead. Carrie screamed in Elizabeth's face, stop making things up. That never happened. You don't know what you're talking about. Don't look, listen to her. Elizabeth countered that she did know what she was talking about because Lynn told her. Carrie responded, I didn't know that you knew about that and then walked off. And apparently this cat incident happened about six months before Lynn went missing. She went to counseling sessions afterwards. So one thing I would say here, Gibbs, is, you know, Carrie's not making himself look real good.

[E]

No, he's coming across like he's not.

[D]

Being completely truthful, forthcoming. Already talked about this relationship that he had with Spring and people can make of that what they will. But now you have, you know, him kind of pushing his son away, telling him to go away, and then when his daughter in law comes up and starts talking about this cat incident, he gets in her face and screams at.

[E]

Her, basically saying, you don't know what you're talking about.

[D]

But then ultimately says, oh, I didn't know you knew about that, and walks off, essentially almost admitting that it was true.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Abram told the Daily Journal that he didn't know where his dad was during the approximately four hour period between their 4:00am conversation and the phone call between 7:30 and 8:00am later that morning, once the official search of the farm started, Carrie, according to Abram, threw a fit, saying they're wasting their time in searching the farm. She's long gone by now. I asked how he knew that and he responded that he already Searched the farm. What do we say? 280 acres?

[E]

Yeah, well, it's a quick search. It seems like it. You know, even if he from what, 4:15, 4:30 drove around, so 8 o' clock searching. It seems like not enough time to search that many acres thoroughly.

[D]

Now, could you drive around and do a cursory search? Yeah, maybe. Abram asked his dad if he really searched almost 280 acres alone in the dark and in the rain, was he really certain Lynn was not there?

[E]

I don't know how you could be certain.

[D]

It's a very valid question to ask. 280 acres in the dark, in the rain. There is nobody doing a complete grid search of that amount of land in that amount of time. Abram revealed that over a year after Lynn went missing, they found out Carrie had been hiding a relationship with another woman since August of 2014. This was when they began to question him. They also found out Lyn did not go to her counseling sessions alone. Carrie always went with her. Anything pertaining to her depression or anxiety was not discussed. I mean, the more that is revealed about Carrie, the worse he looks.

[E]

I mean, it does look like maybe there's something there he's trying to hide.

[D]

Well, apparently he was hiding a relationship. I don't know what you make of this. She's going to counseling sessions for what seemed to be suicidal ideations. Yeah, but yet we can't talk about depression. We can't talk about anxiety. That doesn't seem right because obviously that those are big factors. They play a part. True Crime all the Time Unsolved is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies, the process only takes minutes and it can mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's location and the neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each Listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com. we've done your homework, Abram noted. Now we know she's been saying and making suicidal comments. Going back a decade after a family friend of ours lost a close family member to suicide. We discovered that she confided in several friends that this was something that she was really struggling with and really battling. That's aside from the decades, long, very open conversations she's had with her sisters about her. Her depression and depression medications. That is also aside from the fact that right now there are three bottles of her depression medication in their medicine cabinet. Unless my father has thrown them out. According to Abram, Carrie knew Lynn suffered from depression and anxiety, but he didn't think of it in those terms because he called Lynn's depression medication her happy pill. When they had an argument, Carrie sometimes told Lyn to take her happy pills and leave him alone.

[E]

But that went over well.

[D]

Well, again, I've already said, right. The more that comes out, the worse this guy looks. At the very least, if this is true, he's a very callous, uncaring person towards Lyn.

[E]

Yeah, somebody that's going through something like that, it's not the way to handle it.

[D]

No. You're not being loving, you're not being supportive. Providing context, Abram explained that his brother was going through a divorce and his parents were involved. During this time, they went to a sit down with a pastor and Lynn spoke about the cat incident. Carrie became agitated. The pastor told Lynn she needed to speak to a professional and and wanted to refer her to a Christian psychologist. Carrie insisted this was not necessary and they were not going to see a psychologist.

[E]

I have a feeling that Kerry was more concerned about his image in the community. I don't want this to get out there that my wife did this, that my wife. Is that because you know me as a lobbyist for this community, that could really hurt my standing.

[D]

Yeah. Or was he concerned about what she might say about him?

[E]

Well, that's the other thing.

[D]

In some of these sessions, even though they're supposed to be confidential, maybe his ego just couldn't take that. Even though the medical professional is bound not to release that information. Maybe that's why he went with her. Maybe that's why he Said that some things weren't allowed to be talked about.

[E]

Kind of control the narrative sounds like it.

[D]

Abram also claimed that when he asked his dad about Lyn's note, Carrie said they knew one of two things. Either Lyn was dead or she was going to spend the rest of her life in an institution. According to Abram, I know of personal knowledge that my father knows and knew exactly the context of that note, because the context of that note that he said was for another family member was written for me. Abram explained that he and his mother got into a spad a week before she went missing, which he disclosed to law enforcement and the family was aware of. It was common for Lynn to write notes to the family. After the argument, he apologized to Lynn and told her he was going to handle stress in an appropriate way way. Abram emphasized that he did not talk about Lynn's note until Carrie spoke to reporters.

[E]

So when I was married, I had a person in the family on that side that every time they were upset with anybody in the family, they first changed the will immediately. And then they would send off multiple letters to everybody, chastising the person they were upset with and then sending letters to everybody else letting them know why they were upset with that other person. So it could be within six months. You might get four to eight letters, depending on what happened during that time frame. And every time you would receive a new copy of the will and you knew whoever was in the letter was removed from the will. It was almost comical as time went on.

[D]

Wow. I've never experienced anything like that. I could understand somebody being upset and taking it up with that person directly. But to send out, like, some kind of student newspaper that basically spells out to everyone, hey, here's what so and so did. This is why I'm mad at them. And now they're out of the will. Abram disclosed that the last time he spoke to his father was was in December 2015. He said they had a little bit of a blowup because Abram called Carrie out on his alleged lies. They sat down with a pastor for counseling. According to Abram, his explanation was that I have some kind of development issue and that this developmental issue was causing me not to be able to perceive reality. And that's why I was making all these crazy things up that weren't real. I think they call that gaslighting. I believe so. Abram alleged that Kerry accused him of child abuse and told people that he caused Lynn to end her life. He also alleged that Carrie sent his family out of Their home. He called his father a master manipulator and a masterful control freak. Abram noted that Carrie had sole control over the Farm, Missouri family network and every financial asset, which they estimated was worth $2.5 million. So I think we're getting a real sense here of the father son relationship. Right. And, you know, Abram kind of said it up front. He was going to say some things that were going to blow this whole thing up because they weren't going to line up at all with what his father had been telling everyone for two years now. Does this mean that, you know, Kerry had something to do with Lyn's death? No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, but like I've said repeatedly, it doesn't. None of this stuff makes him look good. No, you'd have to say that depending on the veracity of the information. Abram alleged that Kerry withheld financial information from Lynn. He also controlled Lynn's hair and clothing choices because he was concerned about appearances. Abram said they had a marriage that consisted of one man who made 100% of the decisions and called 100% of the shots and ruled the roost.

[E]

You know, control the image, control what people see, because that's our livelihood. You know, lobbyists.

[D]

But what happens when people are that controlling? Oftentimes it doesn't end well.

[E]

No. Especially when that person being controlled no longer wants to be controlled.

[D]

My wife and I have the opposite issue. She wants me to tell her which outfit looks better. I don't care and don't know.

[E]

And that's a setup anyway.

[D]

It is a setup.

[E]

You pick this one over that one, and she's going to want to know what's wrong with this one.

[D]

And then she calls her mom, FaceTimes, her mom, and her mom picks the other one. And now somehow I'm an idiot when I didn't want to play this game in the first place.

[E]

I can't believe you're going to have me wear that out.

[D]

Months later, on November 1, 2016, skeletal remains were found in a wooded area on the edge of the Messer farm. In a press conference, Sheriff Gary Stolzer confirmed the remains were found, but said it could take months to identify them. Sheriff Stolzer revealed that a medical examiner believed the bones had remained in the same spot since Lyn went missing. So I think based off that, Gibbs, they had to have thought, you know, this was the remains of Lynn Messer.

[E]

Sure. Yeah.

[D]

Now, they still had to confirm it. On November 3, the Missouri Times confirmed that Aaron Messer and his two teen daughters found the remains. Aaron told the Times they were walking in the woods, scouting for locations to hunt deer. One of his daughters saw a skull on the ground and called out to him. They immediately called the police and didn't disturb anything. Aaron said there was little doubt the remains were Lynn. Although it was unconfirmed, there were a number of clues that led Aaron to believe the remains were his mother. He explained there were blankets, a pillow. Her glasses were there. They have a full set of remains as they could expect to have at this point. They're confident that the ID will be positive once they're able to examine them and compare the hips with the replacements and the serial numbers they have on file. And that does come up in some cases. Right. Sometimes breast implants which have serial numbers have been used to identify victims. In this case, a hip replacement, which would have a serial number on would be a, you know, a really good identifier. Now, obviously, you could go the old routes of dental records and. And things like that, but this might be quicker. I don't know.

[E]

Well, and I know, you know, like, you know, your wife keeps your buttocks implant file numbers on record just in case something ever happens to you. So she could reference that.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, which is just smart. He said he would not be surprised if police concluded Lyn's death was a suicide and that her remains had been there a long time. He said, I see the location of her body and the placement of the items around her to be the indication of a voluntary place. In my mind. This is somewhere my mother laid down to say goodbye, or she was placed there deliberately. I want to believe this is something that she wanted rather than something nefarious.

[E]

I think anybody would rather it be something but nefarious.

[D]

Yeah. Neither one's good, though, right? But murder of a loved one, that's really hard to take. The alternative is not easy to take. But I do get his point. Several news outlets reported that the remains were found in an area that was already searched.

[E]

Well, you remember they said that the farm was thoroughly searched.

[D]

Meticulously, even. I think they.

[E]

That's what they used. And. And then, you know, Carrie even said that, you know, he searched. She's not here, she's not on the farm, but yet she's found on the farm.

[D]

So if that was the case, if this was an area that was already searched, what would you make of that? And the first thing for me that comes to mind is that these were planted there sometime after the search had occurred. Maybe these things of hers were kind of planted around her. Yeah, to make it look like a.

[E]

Possible suicide, unless the person that looked just did a really bad job of looking at that area and overlooked it.

[D]

But. And it's possible. It's possible. But you also have to maybe keep in the back of your mind this other alternative. Aaron noted that the remains were found in thick undergrowth around the base of a tree, adding, you'd almost have to walk on top of her to find her there. I can say very clearly that her body was never buried. It wasn't something that was hidden away. It just simply wasn't discovered in the searching. After the remains were found, Abram Messer called on his father to tell the truth. Abram told the Missouri Times, for two years, I've been begging my father to tell the truth and to be open to come clean about what he knows that he's not sharing. I've gone to him in private. I have endeavored him to engage in our church community. Every time I have pressed him or requested him to tell the truth, his reactions have become angrier and more volatile. In the last two years, I have not turned my back on my father. He has pushed us away every step of the way. Now we're publicly asking him to please tell the truth. The truth will set you free. Once again, Abram noted Carrie was unaccounted for. Part of the morning Lyn went missing, he left his phone behind, a habit that continued as his new romantic relationship developed. Abram said, he goes out of his way to hide what he's doing, not only from me, but from anyone else. He would start doing things like walking back and forth or getting a ride. He's still fabricating stories on Facebook, pretending he's pining away for his wife. So that's an interesting question. You know, people put stuff out on social media all the time. Is he really putting it out because that's how he's feeling?

[E]

Or.

[D]

Or is that what he wants everybody to believe? The image, Controlling the image. Right. Like you've brought up a number of times. Abram expressed his belief that Carrie's relationship with Spring began before Lynn went missing. He added, while we were trying to figure out when this relationship could have started, we realized we had been taking cattle up to her farm for years. I was never comfortable with the way my father acted around her. She acted like a boyhood's crush had visited. Then we figured out why there was this sudden rush of stress. Abram attributed family tension before Lynn's disappearance to his mother. Learning of Carrie's possible infidelity. Abram noted, we know that my mother went to visit Spring two weeks before she went missing. We don't know what happened because Spring will not cooperate with law enforcement. Lyn asked one of her friends to pray for her, and she went to visit Spring. Suddenly there was this outpouring of stress. She seemed to not know how to manage this stress. Abram believes Lyn was tipped off after she got onto Carrie's Facebook. Abram ended his interview by saying, as this goes on, we found more details, the motivation behind the disappearance, and now questions about what else could be hidden. There's no doubt in my mind that my father knows much more than he will admit to because he can't decide what he wants to admit to. He's not cooperating. Spring is not cooperating. My father is the main suspect in my mother's disappearance. And there is a lot here, Gibbs, questions that if they were answered, would probably tip the scale. Right. If this relationship between Carrie and Spring starts before Lyn goes missing, well, then it means something completely different.

[E]

Sure it does.

[D]

If Lyn found out about it, there's an added element there.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Maybe she confronted Carrie. You know, these are things that we don't know. But if we had the answers to these questions, undoubtedly it would affect public opinion, but it could also potentially affect law enforcement. On November 4, the skeletal remains were identified as Lynn Messer. A cause of death was not yet determined. In March 2017, the show disappeared aired an episode on Lynn's case. At this time, it was reported that Abram and his family had moved out of their home and had a protection order against Carrie. Both Abram and Aaron were interviewed for the show. Carrie didn't want to participate and argued against the airing of the episode. In a Facebook post writing, the fact is, on the night of July 7, 2014, I lost my bride. Almost a year later, I lost my entire in law family to scathing false rumors deliberately created to cause more pain and stress. Another year later, and I lost the rest of my family to an avalanche of imaginative accusations. Sadly, much of this garbage seems to be very deliberately designed to drive wedges and divide already hurting hearts. And I get why he wouldn't want to participate. His family's against him. Yeah, I think public opinion probably in large part is against him. He probably really gets nothing good out of participating in something like this.

[E]

Well, maybe back then, at that time, if we would have sat down with his family and it kind of explained everything, maybe he would still have his family around him.

[D]

Yeah. And not Pushed everybody away and. And all of that filming took place in October 2016. The family found the remains just days later. Abram found the timing suspicious. He told the Missouri Times the timing of all this with my mother being found and the taping of the show, it raises just as many questions as everything else that has been going on in this investigation. Carrie argued that the crew didn t have all the facts and was rushing to air despite an ongoing investigation and lack of forensic results. Abram counted that the producers had been in constant contact to ensure updates could be included. And it is very strange timing that this show is set to air. Carrie's upset about it and then days after the filming, the remains are found.

[E]

That is bizarre.

[D]

It's either a heck of a coincidence or somebody wanted them to be found. Lynn was finally laid to rest nearly three years after she went missing in the summer of 2017. However, the death investigation was still moving forward. Major Jason Schott with the St. Genevieve Sheriff's Department said they wouldn't stop until they determined what caused Lyn's death. Testing of her remains had been inconclusive. At a 2019 vigil, Abram expressed confidence that it would soon be time to press charges. But he couldn t say why he was so confident for fear of damaging the case. Carrie Messer believes Lyn died of suicide. While her family questions this, Carrie's own son has spoken out against him and accused his father of withholding information. As of the time of this episode, no charges have been filed in the death of Lynn Messer. So, I mean, this Guy said in 2019 that he thought charges would be forthcoming soon. Well, that was, you know, six, seven years ago.

[E]

Yeah, it's been a while.

[D]

So that tells me that they couldn't put a case together. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, there's no doubt that Carrie Messer, on paper, if you just put it all down on paper, he looks suspicious.

[E]

He does.

[D]

I'm sure law enforcement believes that he's on their radar. His own son and other family members think at the very least he's not being fully truthful. I don't know if anybody has come out and said that they believe he killed Lynn. I think undoubtedly they believe he knows more than what he has said. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that they really couldn't tell much about her cause of death. I mean, remains found two years later.

[E]

Yeah, what's it going to really tell you?

[D]

Unless she was shot in the head or, you know, there's a bullet hole in her Skull. Yeah.

[E]

Gonna be difficult.

[D]

It is gonna be difficult. But I do think that this is a case that's solvable. There is someone, or maybe more than one someone who knows what happened to Lynn Messer.

[E]

Yes. It's just sad, you know, she's gone and the family is torn apart.

[D]

I mean, I think you do have to look at the motive. If it was Carrie, what would be the motive? Well, if he's having an affair during the time before Lyn goes missing, yeah, there's a motive. The $2.5 million farm and all the assets they had, that's a motive.

[E]

Exactly.

[D]

Doesn't mean that he had something to do with it. It just means he did have motive. And then you have the fact that Abram said there was like a four hour period where he left or wasn't there.

[E]

So accountable for.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it's. I don't know. Hopefully they can figure this one out because there seems to be a lot of smoke.

[E]

There does.

[D]

But that's it for our episode on the murder of Lynn Messer. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[E]

Let's hear it.

[F]

Hi, this is Anne from Colorado. This is the second time I've called, so second voicemail only. Sorry. Anyway, I'm listening to True Crime all the time and I'm on the Tiffany Boyer episode and I just had to pause it and call because Mike and Gippy are talking about December birthdays and how a week before or after Christmas is Ross. And I have to say mine is 11 days before Christmas. So it's December 14th and still suffering outside right of that weak scope. But it's. It's pretty rough. Even this year, my parents decided to give me a birthday slash Christmas present. And I'm 53 years old, so it never stops. And that has happened to me basically my whole life. So anyway, love this show, Keep your head on a swivel, stay safe, and thank you for all you do.

[D]

All right. Yeah, thanks for the call. I mean, I always believe that there's only so much money to go around.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Right. So having that May, June birthday gives you so much more time for, you know, the finances to build back up.

[E]

You got screwed.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

All your life.

[D]

That's just sad, but a fact. All right, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sa.

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You're welcome.