Marlene Hayes

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode: Marlene Hayes
Release Date: June 29, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson (Gibby)
Main Theme:
This episode covers the brutal and still-unsolved 1981 murder of Marlene Hayes in Bel Air, Maryland. Drawing on period newspaper coverage and recent investigative updates, the hosts explore Marlene’s background, the crime scene, potential suspects, and theories—raising lingering questions about the case more than four decades later.

---

Episode Breakdown

1. Case Overview & Background

[04:43 - 05:37]

• In March 1981, 38-year-old Marlene Hayes left work early due to illness and interrupted a burglary at her home. She was beaten and stabbed to death almost immediately upon entering.
• The Hays family had moved to the Foxbow development in Bel Air—fleeing rising crime in their prior town, ironically seeking safety on a cul-de-sac thought to be less vulnerable.

2. The Hayes Family and Their Move

[05:37 - 07:46]

• Marlene and her husband, Thomas, ran a car dealership, Carport Inc.; she managed accounting and chose the job for flexibility to be with their two sons after school.
• Their move to supposedly safer Foxbow proved fateful. The hosts debate crime logic: is a cul-de-sac more or less risky? Personal anecdotes illustrate that remoteness can attract burglars.

Quote:

"If you're at the end of a cul-de-sac and especially if you have like woods behind you or something like that, maybe that's a little bit easier to burglarize." – Mike Ferguson [06:09]

3. Portrait of Marlene & Prior Crimes

[07:46 - 10:52]

• Marlene is remembered as sociable, happy-go-lucky, and well-liked; the family was considered trouble-free.
• Just two months before, Thomas was robbed at gunpoint at his dealership by a man pretending to be a deputy—$15,000 was stolen, and that case was never solved.

Quote:

"If you owned a business and you thought the police were calling you, saying your business was broken into, you'd be headed right down there." – Mike Ferguson [12:28]

4. The Day of the Murder

[12:43 - 14:37]

• Around 11 AM on March 17, 1981, Marlene came home unexpectedly. It is believed she startled a burglar.
• Evidence shows she was attacked almost immediately—still wearing her coat, struck with a household object, then restrained and stabbed twice in the chest.

Quote:

"She was attacked while she was wearing her coat, which would lead investigators to believe that it happened fairly quickly after she entered the home." – Mike Ferguson [13:23]

• Hosts speculate: Did the killer stab her only because she could identify them?

[14:53]

"If you're just robbing the place, the only reason I would think you would do that is because you don't have a mask on. She's seen your face and maybe might know who you are." – Mike Gibson

5. Discovery & Immediate Aftermath

[15:33 - 17:32]

• Marlene’s 15-year-old son, Thomas Jr., found her tied and bloodied on the kitchen floor after school—a traumatic discovery.
• No sign of forced entry. The house was ransacked and her car, a Toyota Tercel, was stolen. It was quickly abandoned at a nearby school, with witnesses reporting a man leaving the vehicle.

6. Initial Investigation & Theories

[17:32 - 21:46]

• Police identified two men for questioning: one was seen driving a red Toyota, another hitchhiking nearby. Neither was immediately called a suspect.
• Theories emerged tying Marlene’s murder to another local homicide or speculating about a botched hit, but the unpredictable timing of Marlene’s return home makes the hit theory less likely.

Quote:

"If someone wanted to get rid of, let's say, their spouse, making it look like a burglary gone wrong might not be the worst way to do it." – Mike Ferguson [22:29]

7. Evidence, Leads & Community Response

[24:11 - 29:44]

• Numerous leads generated composite sketches, more interviews, and jewelry descriptions. Roughly $8,000–$9,000 in jewelry was taken but never recovered.
• The community responded with fear—gun and security sales spiked; a reward fund was established, both out of safety concerns and a desire to protect neighborhood property values.

Quote:

"If you're looking to buy a nice home and spend quite a bit of money, are you going to move in... when there's this unsolved murder that just occurred?" – Mike Ferguson [29:17]

8. An Ongoing Pattern of Burglaries

[30:15 - 33:45]

• The period saw a surge in local break-ins—almost 1,000 in 1981 countywide.
• The hosts use this context to underscore how Marlene’s family, tragically, were targeted repeatedly, and how criminal opportunities abounded amid police resource shortages.

9. Later Developments: Indictments & Other Murders

[33:59 - 38:29]

• Thomas Hayes, Marlene’s widower, was indicted for fraud involving a Small Business Administration loan after Marlene’s death. Carport Inc. fell into bankruptcy, but follow-up on these legal issues is scant.
• Police explored possible links between Marlene’s case and other regional murders (including those of Jennifer Claybrook, Nancy Pucci, Marianne Mitchell) but found no solid connections.

10. False Leads: The Henry Lee Lucas Angle

[38:29 - 41:53]

• Citing media buzz, the hosts discuss infamous serial confessor Henry Lee Lucas, who falsely linked himself to hundreds of murders—including cases in the area. Investigators ultimately discounted any link to Marlene.

Memorable Moment:

“They made a fine looking pair, the two of them. They had about three teeth. Between the two of them.” – Mike Ferguson, on Lucas and Ottis Toole [41:04]

11. Lingering Fear & Unsolved Cases

[42:38 - 45:18]

• Early 1980s Bel Air suffered multiple unsolved murders. Police tried to reassure citizens the murders weren’t connected, but the hosts point out that this can be even less reassuring: more than one murderer at loose is hardly comforting.

12. Modern Forensics & Hope for Justice

[46:06 - 51:56]

• In recent years, evidence from the case has been well-preserved, with hope that advances in DNA technology might finally bring answers. Some of the stolen jewelry taken from an unnamed suspect may yield new forensic evidence soon.
• The hosts emphasize the importance of re-examining old evidence and the high cost and difficulty for police departments to do so.

Notable Quotes:

“There is so much evidence in evidence lockers and evidence rooms across the country that has never been tested...because why? It costs a lot of money.” – Mike Ferguson [48:07]

[49:52]

“Well, it sounds like we’re on the precipice.” – Mike Gibson
“That’s a great word, because it’s perfect. It’s almost like you just—you think there could be a breakthrough, and I like that in these cases.” – Mike Ferguson

[51:18] If you have information:

• Call Harford County Sheriff's Office: 410-838-6600
• Submit an anonymous tip: www.p3tips.com

13. Reflection on Fate and Unanswered Questions

[51:56 - 53:24]

• The hosts reflect on the tragic “butterfly effect” at play—if Marlene hadn’t fallen ill and come home early, she would likely have survived.
• The working theory: the killers were surprised, unmasked, and chose to kill Marlene to eliminate a witness.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On unintended tragedies:

  “One like deviation in someone’s day can lead to something horrible.” – Mike Ferguson [52:00]

• On hope for resolution:

  “But there’s some possibility. And that’s always a good thing.” – Mike Gibson [50:44]

---

Key Timestamps

• 04:43: Start of Marlene Hayes case
• 12:43: Timeline of the murder
• 17:32: Discovery of Marlene’s car, eyewitnesses
• 24:11: Composite sketches and suspect descriptions
• 29:17: Community response—reward fund and real estate anxieties
• 33:59: Federal indictment of Thomas Hayes
• 38:29: Discussion of Henry Lee Lucas confessions
• 46:06: Recent forensic and evidence updates, DNA hope
• 51:56: The aftermath, fate, and open questions

---

Episode Tone

The hosts’ signature mix of thorough, respectful true crime discussion and casual banter prevails. They inject humor to lighten grim details (“three teeth between the two of them”), but always refocus on the victim and the need for resolution. Their speculations are measured and empathetic, making the narrative accessible yet impactful.

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Summary

This episode provides a comprehensive walk through the facts, context, and enduring uncertainty of Marlene Hayes’s 1981 murder. It draws on both contemporary reporting and modern advances, highlighting the frustration and slim hope familiar to the families and investigators of unsolved crimes. With recent evidence reviews and preserved DNA, there is genuine optimism for a future breakthrough.

If you know anything that might help solve the murder of Marlene Hayes, please reach out to the Harford County Sheriff’s Office or provide an anonymous tip online.

Transcript

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[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Foreign.

[Mike Ferguson]

And welcome to episode 471 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I'm doing good, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you're doing a little Jamaica. Don't make me think about my Jamaican vacation.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

If I had a red striped beer, I cracking open right now.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it's funny, my. My mom bought my stepdad some Red Stripe just so that he can kind of relive the Jamaican vacation.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Nice.

[Mike Ferguson]

Smart thinking, right?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, it really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jamie Basil.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, thanks, Jamie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Alicia Conia, what's going on? Alicia Fernaz Arshuri Ah, Faz, Nikki. Basie. Or Bocce, as you probably believe it is. And you're probably right.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I probably am, but. Hey, Nikki.

[Mike Ferguson]

Cynthia.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

What's up? Or it's Cynthia.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Jess Hake.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, what's going on, Hake?

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Karen Kirk.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, hey, thanks, Karen.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, so we appreciate that. We have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Julie Williams, who was poisoned when a man was trying to kill his wife at work. Gibbs. Yeah, it is a wild, crazy story.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Be careful at work, people.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. So that's out right now. Make sure you check that out. We also dropped a Patreon episode Saturday night on Anna Trujillo, unrelated to Danny. Yeah, but you do talk about Danny. I think in the episode.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Anna called to report that her boyfriend was bleeding inside his apartment. She answered the door covered in blood, and investigators, you know, they found this gruesome crime scene and soon discovered that the murder weapon was Anna's high heeled shoe.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So, guys, if you're going to make your woman upset, make sure her stilettos are nowhere nearby.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because she did some unspeakable things with a high heeled shoe. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsull?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I'm ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the murder of Marlene Hayes. In March 1981,Marlene Hayes left work early because she wasn't feeling well and interrupted someone burglarizing her home. She was beaten and stabbed to death moments after she walked through the door. The brutal crime shocked and terrified her neighborhood. Over 40 years later, her murder remains unsolved. Marlene Audrey Coleman, later Hayes, was born on February 16, 1943 in Baltimore, Maryland. She was 38 years old at the time of her death. She and her husband Thomas, had two sons, Thomas Jr. And Scott. In the late 1970s, the Hays family moved from Joppa Town to Bel Air, Maryland. They bought a home in the Foxbow development, which was said to be an affluent neighborhood.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's Foxbow.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're familiar with Foxbow?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Who doesn't know about Foxbow?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

They moved there because they wanted to get away from an increase in crime in their old neighborhood. Their new house was on a cul de sac and they thought a dead end street was less likely to be burglarized.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I can see that logic now.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

I see.

[Mike Ferguson]

I really don't. Because I feel like if you're on the Main Street. And you have a lot of houses around you.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And more traffic, maybe then you're less likely to be burglarized. I feel like if you're at the end of a cul de sac and especially if you have like woods behind you or something like that, maybe that's a little bit easier to burglarize. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You're probably right because that's what happened to my brother a few months ago down in Columbus. He lives on a cul de sac with woods behind him. And the individual pulled up in a service truck with a service trailer and robbed both his house and the neighbor's house.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, man, that was scary as all get out.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Obviously they weren't home. Neither one were home, thankfully. So they settled into their new life in Bel Air. Thomas and Marlene owned a car dealership called Carport Inc. Marlene did accounting and managed the office. She quit her part time job so she could work for her husband and be home when her boys arrived from school. Sounds like a, like a perfect scenario.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It really does.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, you're. You're working with your husband, but you also have that flexibility. Right. To be home when the kids get home from school. Sounds ideal.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

As long as you're okay working with your spouse.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You know, I met my wife at work. We worked together after we got married for a little while. Not that long.

[Voicemail Caller Darian]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, there is something to be said for not being with someone 24 hours a day.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, maybe having a little bit of time apart so that you don't get on your. Each other's nerves quite as much.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I could see maybe her working for you. I don't see you working well for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, you think she could work for me?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I think there's a better chance of that than you working for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, there's zero chance of that, but there's also zero chance of her ever working for me because she does not. She does not like me to tell her what to do.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she doesn't handle criticism very well at all. So none of that would go over well.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And you do criticize.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do, yeah. I do. When it comes to work.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Neighbors described Marlene as wonderful and happy. Go lucky. Marlene enjoyed hosting neighbors in the summers. And I feel like in. I know people get tired of me saying back in the day, but you know, when we were younger, I feel like there was a lot of block parties.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And more like neighborhood get togethers. And maybe it's just where I live, there are none to be found.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Don't hear about them like you used to. But you're right. Back in the day, you know, I remember my parents, they were headed out the door every weekend, or somebody was coming over. You know, the group was coming to our house, or they were going to somebody else's house. Everybody took something with them. Food.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then they put their keys in the bowl and whatever happened, happened, happened.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You know, you're just told, don't ever come downstairs.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You know, or come up if you need us. Do not come down here.

[Mike Ferguson]

They also had a rumpus room.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, I mean, everybody needs a rumpus

[Mike Ferguson]

room, but a lot of people have. Back in the 60s, I think. Not really sure what they were for other than rumpus.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Rumpusing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Neighbors thought she and Thomas were a very nice couple who always did things together. According to the Ages, a paper for Harford county, no one in town seemed to dislike the couple. The murder of Marlene Hayes wasn't the first time the family were victims of crime. In mid January 1981, Thomas Hayes was robbed at gunpoint at his business. The robber called him, pretending to be a deputy. He asked Thomas to come to Carport Inc. Because a break in had occurred. Thomas told state police that when he arrived at his car lot, he didn't see a police car and became suspicious. At that point, a man appeared at his car door and demanded he got out. When he refused to get out of his car, the man pulled out a gun. Thomas got out and unlocked his office door as instructed. He was then robbed of $15,000. He wasn't injured and no shots were fired during the incident. Thomas described the suspect as a 25 year old black male. He was wearing a light stocking cap, a green army fatigue jacket, blue jeans, blue tennis shoes and black gloves. And I couldn't find anywhere in any articles where that case was ever resolved.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So if it was or just it wasn't reported on, but $15,000 in 1981, that's quite a chunk of change. What do you think that would be today, Gibbs? We haven't done that in a while. Beep, boop, beep, boop, beep, boop, boop.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

15,000?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Today, in today's dollars,

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

275,000.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. I have no idea. I always go with you.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Somebody will say either you're right or you're way off. Now, you know, you have inflation, which is kind of what we're talking about here. But then you also have investing. Yeah, And I kind of think in terms of investing.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right. So do I.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if you invested $15,000 in 1981, it would outpace inflation.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You'd have more money.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

But I mean, if I just wanted to go cut for cut 15 today, 88,000.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Okay.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I think if you do it the other way, it's going to be what

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I still believe you either way, because I have no idea. But I do want to talk about this incident a little bit. It's kind of ingenious if you think about it. I hate to say that about a criminal, but, you know, you don't want to walk in during business hours because there's gonna be a lot of people there, witnesses. And so somehow whoever this was either knew the owner and where they lived and maybe the phone number, or they. Or they found out who the owner was.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Found out his phone number, called him, pretended to be a deputy. I mean, face it, if you owned a business and you thought the police were calling you, saying your business was broken into, you'd be headed right down there.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then obviously, when he got there, this guy had a gun on him. What else could he do? Around 11am On March 17, 1981, Marlene left work early because she wasn't feeling well. She pulled into her driveway, walked inside through the kitchen door and approached a set of stairs leading to the second floor. Investigators believe she stumbled upon a home burglary in progress. Marlene was attacked almost as soon as she entered the house, as evidenced by the fact that she was still wearing her coat. Police believe she was attacked on the stairs. She was struck in the head by an item in her home that was used as a weapon of opportunity. According to Captain Andrew Lane of the Harford County Sheriff's Department, Marlene was restrained and stabbed twice in the chest. There's a couple of things here. Obviously, they believe this burglary was occurring at the time that she walked in. Now, maybe they knew her and her husband's schedule and thought, okay, she's going to be at work for X amount of hours. And this was just unfortunate that she wasn't feeling well that day and decided to come home early. You have the fact that she's attacked while she's wearing her coat, which would lead investigators to believe that it happened fairly quickly after she entered the home. Most people take their coat off. They do not too long after they get inside. And then, you know, I was really kind of fixated on this weapon of opportunity, because to me, that means the people didn't bring something with them. Yeah, they found something in the home. Once they probably heard that she was

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

entering and used that to knock her out. But the stab her twice in the chest. If you're just robbing the place, the only reason I would think you would do that is because you don't have a mask on. She's seen your face and maybe might know who you are.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right on the money there. Because if there's no chance that the person could identify you, you could very easily restrain them, continue to take whatever you want, just leave them there. Somebody's going to find them when they come home later. There's no reason to kill them if you don't believe they can identify you. So I think you're right there. Marlene's son, 15 year old Thomas Jr. Came home from school around 3pm and found his mother face down on the kitchen floor. She was bound at the hands and ankles. He tried speaking to her and lifted her and then saw the blood on her face. Thomas ran to a friend's house and shouted, my mother is dead. My mother is dead. I mean, poor kid, man, 15 years old. To find your mother dead like that.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Traumatizing. And then to run to your neighbors to say that your mom is dead. Something that in any neighborhood you wouldn't expect. But you know, they moved to this affluent neighborhood back in the cul de sac because they thought it was going to be one of the safest places to be, and it turns out it's not.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I can't help but wonder if there is any connection between this burglary and murder and the, the robbery of the business. Could be, you know, maybe we'll get into it more as we go through the story. But maybe they thought, you know, we know where these people live. We already got $15,000 from them. They probably got a bunch more at home.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So when you think about the car market, I mean, they're going to deal with a lot of cash. And if you're trying to rob somebody or someplace to get that cash, that's a, a good place to try to find that. And like you said, they hit it kind of big at the business and maybe they thought, as you mentioned, there's going to be a lot more back at the house.

[Mike Ferguson]

There were no signs of forced entry, so investigators thought it was possible that the family left the doors unlocked. The burglar or burglars had ransacked one room in the house. They escaped with cash, jewelry and Marlene's car. And I think it is possible, Gibbs. We know a lot of people, especially in years past have left their, their houses unlocked.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, really wasn't that uncommon, especially back then.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe they thought like you said, hey, we moved to this great neighborhood, slow crime, we feel safe. Maybe they didn't feel there was a need to lock it.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Detective Chris Sargent later told WMAR that he, he didn't think Marleene was targeted. The suspect or suspects probably thought nobody would come home and they were caught off guard when she interrupted them. Marleene's missing Toyota Tercel was found later that day in the William James Elementary School parking lot in Abingdon, Maryland. Witnesses said a man abandoned the car. Police believe this man is their main suspect.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I would say so, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I think both of those things are pretty common sense type of statements. Right. I don't believe that the suspects targeted her specifically. It does seem like they thought nobody would be home when they were committing this burglary. And then, you know. Yeah, whoever abandoned this car has got to be your main suspect. You know, when Gibby and I started the podcast, we had a world of doubts like what if nobody listens? What if we make fools of ourselves? Well, now we know we were right in starting the podcast. Every little bit helps. And what really helped us was having a partner like Shopify on our side to help. We've been using Shopify for our podcast merge for six or seven years now. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Gymshark to True Crime all the time to brands just getting started. Shopify has hundreds of ready to use templates that help you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. They also help you easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com unsolved. Go to shopify.com unsolved. That's shopify.com unsolved. You know folks, getting paid twice a month doesn't mean money is scarce. It just feels that way. That feeling makes you do weird stuff like putting things on a card you didn't need to and stuff like that. Earn in removes that feeling. Access up to $150 a day of money you've already earned plus up to $1,000 between paychecks. Tips are optional and standard transfers take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. Expedited transfers start at 399 and cap it $5.99. 5 million people are already on it and honestly, it's wild it didn't exist sooner. You know, about 20 years ago, I had an unexpected issue with my car and I couldn't wait to get paid. So I ended up going to one of those payday loan places and it cost a fortune. Man, I could have really used Earn In. Download Earn in on the app store or Google Play spelled like E A R N I N G. Earning money without the G. Type in true crime all the time under podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank, and access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees. Expedited transfers available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service. Available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit Earnin.com for full details. Two days later, police announced that they planned to question two local men in connection with Marlene's murder. But that did not necessarily mean they were suspect. Police weren't certain whether one or two people were involved. It was also not known how the intruder gained entry to the home. Two residents of Marlene's neighborhood told the Ageists they wondered if the murder was related to the December 1980 murder of William D. Labonte, who lived about a mile and a half from the Hays family in a neighborhood called Plumtree Estates. He was murdered by a hitman and who tried to make the incident look like a burglary gone wrong.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

But for that to take place, for that to tie in. Right. I mean, she was at work, didn't feel good. Like you wouldn't have known what time she was going to get home because you didn't know she was even going to come home because she felt ill. Unless somehow you, the hitman, made her get sick at work.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I know. I get where you're going with this. It does seem like a strange hitman scenario because she wasn't supposed to be home at that time.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think, at least to me, it makes more sense of the burglary and then her just kind of coming home unexpectedly.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But let's face it, if someone wanted to get rid of, let's say, their spouse, making it look like a burglary gone wrong might not be the worst way to do it. Yeah, but police didn't think the murders were connected at that point, the Labanz case hadn't been solved, and leads pointed to a number of suspects. Russ Herbert, who sold carport ink to Thomas Hayes, told the Ages that Thomas was fair and above board in his business dealings. He continued to do business with Thomas after the sale. He spoke to Marlene on the morning of the murder. He never heard the couple talking about having any enemies. In late March, the police issued composite sketches and descriptions of two men sought for questioning. One was described as a white male believed to be 18 to 25 years old. He was seen operating a red Toyota north on Tollgate Road, then north on Route 1 to Route 24, where he turned right. The second subject was also described as a young white male. He was seen hitchhiking in the vicinity of Route 24, about one mile from William James Elementary School, where Marlene's car was found. Two different descriptions by two. Two different witnesses were given for the second subject, but the description of the first subject, given by a local resident, was a good one, according to police. And police did note that they were not calling them suspects yet.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Look, some good leads.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you want to talk to these two individuals. You know, one is seen in a. In a red Toyota. You know, I'm assuming it didn't say, but I'm assuming Marlene's Toyota Tercel was red.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Also, you've got this other guy who's hitchhiking about a mile from where her car was found.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Does that mean he's involved? No, but do you want to talk to him? Absolutely.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. Maybe he dumped the car there and started hitch. Hitchhiking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that's the thing. Nobody said that this guy got into another car or the. Or they saw him get into another car. He just walked away. So maybe there was a car waiting for him out of sight.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or maybe he walked, you know, somewhere or hitchhiked or who knows? Police were reluctant to say how much jewelry and cash were taken from the house for fear of jeopardizing the investigation. Sergeant William Van Horn told the Ageist, there are some details that only the murderer knows, and we need to keep that confidential. And, man, we talk about it all the time.

[Voicemail Caller Darian]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is something that police do frequently have to decide. What can we disclose and what do we need to hold back. Yeah, and a lot of times it's kind of those details that could help them corroborate whether someone is telling the truth, if they make a guilty admission or something to that effect. Normally something that they believe only the

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

killer would know, which is good to do. I also think that you need to kind of put milestones in place, like, if we don't hear by this time, you know, if we don't have something solid by this time, maybe we need to release a few more of those tips that clues out to the public that might be able to help out instead of holding them close to us and hopes that a suspect comes along. I just think sometimes you can wait too long keeping that in when it might be able to help to get it out to the public, too. So it's got to be a hard thing to weigh.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, because we talk about it a lot on unsolved. Yeah, right. You end up 20, 30, 40 years down the road and find out that police still have information that they. They haven't shared.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or they waited 10 or 15 years to share. And you're asking yourself, well, what would have happened if maybe they'd have shared it sooner?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, but it's.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's hard, right? It's a hard decision to make. I get that. Deputies were continuing to follow up on leads, including one from the state police in Bel Air who questioned a suspect in Bowie regarding a burglary. Ultimately, that lead didn't tie in with the incident at the Hayes home. Investigators theorized that the killer may have been committing burglaries in the Foxbow development with another criminal who dropped him off at the Hayes house. He may have been picked up by this partner after he abandoned Marlene's car. And I don't think that's a bad theory. I think a lot of times you see people work together when it comes to burglaries. Right. Like at least two people, maybe even more. The murder caused so much fear in the entire county that local gun dealers and security companies saw a spike in sales. The state police also reported receiving an increase in requests for gun permits.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I can see that happening.

[Mike Ferguson]

It almost always does. Yeah, right. In these murders that we talk about, especially if they occur in places where they don't experience a lot of that type of crime.

[Pluto TV Advertiser]

Crime.

[Mike Ferguson]

You see this massive spike in gun sales. Well, why is that? Because maybe those people don't have a gun. And now all of a sudden, they're worried, what's going to happen if I don't have one and somebody breaks in? Am I going to be able to protect myself?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And people listening in other countries are saying, what do you mean you're allowed to have a gun in your home? Because it's just something they're not allowed to do in countries. The Foxbow Development association established a Reward fund for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Marlene's killer or killers. And that's not surprising to me either. Right. If this is an affluent neighborhood, the last thing that you want is an unsolved murder in your neighborhood.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, yeah. One, you got to be nervous for you and your family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That maybe they're targeting this neighborhood. Secondly, you want to be able to tell the public and future buyers of this neighborhood, you don't need to worry about anything. If you buy here, move in here. It's a good place to live. Don't worry. Pay the full price. Let's not have our market tank because of this. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, if you're looking to buy a nice home and spend quite a bit of money, are you going to move in to a development and pay top dollar when there's this unsolved murder that just occurred? And I think for a lot of people, the answer is no.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Why would you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Even though we all know things like this could happen anywhere.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if you're a home buyer, you're not thinking about that. You're thinking about the fact that it did happen here.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In April, the Sheriff's office revealed that they had received numerous responses for the composite sketches. Sergeant William Van Horn didn't say how many people police had questioned, but did say that some of the individuals had criminal records and some did not. They still had no definite suspect. He did confirm that 8 to $9,000 worth of jewelry was taken from the home and none of the items had been recovered.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's a lot of money for jewelry back then.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. But you would also think that that's an angle the police would have been working very hard on.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Where did this jewelry end up? Pawn shops, different places like that.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You're not going to be able to trace the cash, but this is something that you potentially could trace well.

[Mike Ferguson]

And especially if Thomas had a, you know, any type of detail.

[Voicemail Caller Darian]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

About the jewelry that was taken. And a lot of people who have expensive jewelry do because, you know, they added to their homeowners policy or whatever. So they have to have fairly decent records of what they have. Police still didn't know exactly how the burglar gained entry to the home. Investigators have also never said what item was used to beat Marlene. In December, the Aegis reported that 1981 could be considered the year of the burglar in Harford County. The paper reported that There were almost 1,000 break ins reported in the county year costing almost a million dollars in stolen or damaged property.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's a problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a lot of break ins. Well, at least it is to me. I don't know what a normal county number is, but a thousand seems like a lot.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I feel like again, permits for guns are going to go up and I don't really know when. The alarm system companies really started hitting marketing really hard, but I'm guessing that this is a dream for them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because they're going out to all these houses probably and knocking on doors and saying, hey, if you don't have one, we got one for you.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, I mean kind of using kind of scare tactic marketing.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was noted that less than six hours after Marlene Hayes was killed, a 16 year old boy in Churchville was accosted in his home by two intruders who threatened him with a knife and tied him up with a phone cord. The two cases were not related according to the police.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So this is what I love about cell phones now because nobody really has landlines in their home anymore. So you don't have to worry about getting the old phone cord tied around you because you know you're.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because there's no other cords in the home that could be used besides phone cords. But I get what you're saying. Right. Less and less people every day probably have a landline.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. You remember how long those phone cords could be? Because it had to, you know, if you only had one or two phones, it had to reach everywhere.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. The kids would like take them in their room and shut the door. Back in the day, the police confirmed the number of break ins was up significantly. A manpower shortage at the sheriff's department hampered efforts to prevent increasing break ins in the county.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I'm also trying to remember when the old neighborhood watch programs came out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think they would have been around in the 80s, I'm pretty sure. I don't know. I was never part of one. It seemed like a. A big commitment.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You were probably on their list though.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, I'm sure I was.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

To keep an eye on and I

[Mike Ferguson]

feel like that now. I mean I. As far as I know, there is no neighborhood watch program where I live or nobody's asked me to be a part of it. I'm kind of the neighborhood watch for my own house.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. Well, they probably feel like you're going to be okay because you're the only house in this place that has motorized shutters.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

On windows and doors.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's like the purge up in here.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It kind of is.

[Mike Ferguson]

In January 1982, Marlene's husband, Thomas Hayes was indicted on federal charges in connection with alleged abuses of a Small Business Administration loan. Hayes and his employee Lawrence Milburn were indicted on charges pertaining to concealments and transactions concerning a Small Business Administration loan. Carport Inc. Closed shortly after Marlene was murdered and Thomas filed for bankruptcy over the summer. According to the indictment, both men knowingly attempted to conceal, remove and dispose of property pledged to be held by the SBA as collateral for the loan. But as often is the case, Gibbs, we just couldn't really find any reporting about, like the indictment, what happened with it, anything like that. You find that quite a lot when you're researching true crime, especially when you're using a lot of old newspaper articles and things like that. They'll report on something, but then there won't be any follow up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, it just kind of stops there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's just nothing after it. But I do believe there was. And I don't know how much Small Business Administration loans still occur, if that's even a thing, but I think there was quite a bit of abuse with those types of things. Like there is abuse with everything. Oh, of course.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Everything that is. Well, meaning somebody figures out a way to take advantage of the system.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. I mean, the SBA loans are still out there and they're there for a good reason. But like you said, if someone can figure out how to manipulate it to their benefit or do some fraudulent activity.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I feel like I remember reading that there was quite a bit of that during COVID Yeah. Maybe related with small business loans as well.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I could see that.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

A week later, the Aegis reported that police were investigating new leads in the murder of Marlene Hayes and Marianne Mitchell, a 19 year old who was killed on May 21, 1981. Sergeant William Van Horn told the paper that a suspect in another murder case had been checked out, but no information connected him to Marlene's murder. And I think you're gonna also have this in a lot of unsolved cases, right. When you know that there's another murder, let's say not that far away. Well, you definitely want to check in to the person who is thought or known to have committed that to see if they could be responsible for your unsolved murder.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, I think it's smart, you know, do some due diligence there and determine that.

[Mike Ferguson]

In November 1983, police in Maryland were looking into the possibility of linking the suspicious disappearance of a 17 year old honor student in the city of Haver de Grace to Henry Lee Lucas, who confessed to several homicides in Harford and Cecil counties.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

He confessed to a lot of things.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we talked about Lucas quite a bit.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Known as the Confession Killer, was convicted of murdering his mother in 1960 and two others in 1983. He became infamous when he falsely confessed to approximately 600 other murders. And you know, if you haven't seen the Henry Lee Lucas doc on Netflix, you know, it's really worth a watch. The whole thing about the strawberry milkshakes and the agencies wanting to close their cases and kind of feeding him information. Yeah, it's fascinating to say the least.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I think he just liked talking to people.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think he liked the attention, I think he liked the milkshakes. I think he also liked getting to go places because they would take him out to some of these crime scenes and he would give them information. I think the problem is it turned out that some of it he was fake fed or given or he already knew somehow. And you know, obviously that's, that's kind of a bad deal.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

But hey, he probably wanted to be out there obviously than being inside of a cell all day.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, who wouldn't? I mean, if you got people gushing all over you because they're so happy that you're helping them to solve their cases, you're getting a strawberry milkshake every time one case is solved and you're just getting outside.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In the Fresh air and having just the slightest taste of freedom. Who wouldn't take that opportunity? Lisa Darasu disappeared on December 30, 1981. Lucas said that one of the alleged victims was hidden in a water filled quarry in Pennsylvania, as well as the victim's vehicle. The police department and the Pennsylvania State Police searched a quarry in Nottingham, Pennsylvania, but nothing was found. Sergeant Van Gilder said his department first learned of the murder suspect from a teletype sent to the Maryland State Police, which stated that Texas authorities had a suspect in custody saying he killed someone in Perryville. The state police sent the teletype to police agencies across the state. The Harford County Sheriff's Department said they were not linking any of their cases to Henry Lee Lucas or his accomplice at that time.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And who was that nice looking guy?

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, all old. Oddest tool. Yeah, yeah, they made a. They made a fine looking pair of the two of them. They had about three teeth. Between the two.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Between the two of them.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know this. They were definitely getting their corn on the cob cut off. There's no way that either one of those dudes was eating a corn on the cob. It just wasn't happening. Maybe that's why he liked milkshakes so much. Maybe because he didn't have to chew them. However, Corporal David Sanman of Harford County Sheriff's Department did say that the Sheriff's department is still investigating the murder of Marlene Hayes, 38, who was found stabbed to death in her Foxbow Development home near Bel Air after returning home from work on March 17, 1981. There might be a connection, but there is nothing relating Lucas to Hayes at this time.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And I believe that. I don't think Henry Lee Lucas had anything to do with her murder.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, obviously we know he didn't have anything to do with most of the murders that they tried to tie him to or that he admitted to. Henry Lee Lucas was ultimately convicted of murdering 11 people and sentenced to death for the murder of a Jane Doe, who was later identified as Deborah Jackson. Lucas's death sentence was later commuted to life in prison. He recanted his confessions as a hoax, with the exception of murdering his mother. He died of congestive heart failure in 2001.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And if you want to learn more about that, if you haven't heard our case episode that we did on him, you should go out and listen to episodes. Episodes probably multiple.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. On true crime all the time. So by the end of 1983, three unsolved murders in the area were Causing fear among the community. There were still no promising leads in the murder of Marlene Hayes. In March 1983, 15 year old Jennifer Claybrook was strangled to death in a field in Bel air. Then on December 1st, 43 year old Nancy Pucci was shot to death in the basement of a vacant house in Bel Air. So, I mean, if there already wasn't, you know, quite a bit of alarm and panic, Gibbs. Now you have these additional murders, you have more residents of Bel Air starting to lock their doors, being very wary of strangers and even their fellow community members. Right. So if there is an outbreak of murders or there's a number of murders in the area, you're going to be fearful of all kinds of different things. Right. Is there a serial killer? Is there, you know, a stranger who comes into town every so often, but also is a member of our community just out there killing people and they live in right here next to us somewhere?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And I don't know what's worse. Is it, is it worse to have a serial killer that maybe killed three people, or is it worse that you just have three random killings? And I think it's worse that you have three random killings by three different people. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it could be. I mean, it's all terrible, obviously, but.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is it a little scarier maybe? Lieutenant John Harkins of the Bel Air PD told the Aegis, we want to stress that none of these cases are related. The circumstances surrounding all four are completely different. This should dispel some of the feelings of the public. Even if we had police on every street corner, there was no way to prevent them from happening. And I go back to what you just said. Does it alleviate the stress or the feelings of the public, or does it make it even worse? Okay, you're saying they're not related, but we still have a lot of murders here.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. I mean, if they're not related, instead of having one killer out there, we've got maybe four killers out there. I don't like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, because if you catch one, that doesn't mean they all end. Exactly. You could have somebody out there who continues to kill or multiple people. Marlene's husband, Thomas Hayes, died in January 1984. Over 40 years later, Marlene's family is still left without answers. Investigators hope new DNA technology will solve the case. And we mentioned it earlier that investigators did an extensive canvas of the neighborhood at the time of the murder and identified several pieces of jewelry missing from the home. So obviously there's always a chance, right, That a piece of jewelry is going to be identified and they can trace it back maybe somehow. Now that's if it hasn't all been melted down, you know, many, many years ago. But I want to go back to investigators talking about new DNA technology.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, that would lead one to believe that they have some DNA to work with or that they have evidence that they're hoping one day they can extract a DNA sample from, which would be awesome. It would be awesome. But they've been pretty tight lipped, I think, about the evidence that they do have. So we don't know exactly what that is. In 2024, Captain Andrew Lane of the Harford County Sheriff's Office told WMAR the brutality of what occurred, whether this occurred a month ago or 42 years ago, this isn't the kind of crime we're ever going to stop investigating because of the nature of what occurred. He added that the case had been active within the last few months and the evidence was well preserved. He said some of these older cases, as we stretch back 40 years, the abilities of law enforcement and forensic science were completely different. However, thankfully, in cases like this and other ones, the evidence that was recovered properly, it was stored properly, and it allows us, years later to come back and apply modern science where they couldn't then. And there's no doubt he's absolutely right about that. You know, they were limited in the early 1980s. Sure they were, with what they could do with evidence, obviously, as you know, especially on the DNA front, I just wonder, in some of these older unsolved cases, and I'll speak specifically to Marlene's case, have they even tested the evidence since, you know, some of the newer DNA technology has, you know, come about because we've talked about it and heard it many times.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

There is so much evidence in evidence lockers and evidence rooms across the country that has never been tested.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because why? It costs a lot of money.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It does cost a lot of money.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's time involved, resources, all of that. So we just don't know. But at least they do have evidence, so there's some hope there on the DNA front.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, you know, thank goodness back then, the practices that they use to collect evidence benefit us today.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And the way they stored it and, and all that.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I would love to know that whoever did commit this and if they're still alive, that they're thinking, yeah, they're freaking out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You always want to believe that.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't mean you specifically, I just mean you as in we all do, because we don't Want these people to get away with it and live like a happy life. Yeah. They haven't been caught, but at the very least, are they fearful? Are they worried about every knock at the door? I'm hoping at the very least there's some of that.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Until they are caught.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I hope so.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to a 2026 article from a E, investigators were able to recover some of the missing jewelry from an unnamed suspect who was in the area at the time. These items were not able to be tested in the 80s, but investigators now hope DNA testing could be done. So, you know, back to my earlier statement. This is an article from 2026. So that leads me to believe that some of the stuff they have just has not yet been tested.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, it sounds like we're on the precipice. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or the precipice.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Somebody got you a thesaurus, I believe, for Father's Day.

[Progressive Motorcycle Insurance Announcer]

Maybe.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a great word, because it's perfect.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, it's almost like you just. You think there could be a breakthrough, and I like that in these cases. Right. You feel for everybody involved. The victims, their families. And now you see that it's possible that Marlene's case could be solved through other means. You know, fingerprint analysis, circumstantial evidence that connects an individual to a crime. DNA testing is probably the one that you would think would be most likely to break it wide open.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But there's some possibility.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

There is. And that's always a good thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. Because unfortunately, we do talk about some cases where, at the end of it, you're not left with a great deal of hope. Right. Because they haven't talked about a ton of evidence. They haven't come out and said much in. In recent years. I'm getting a different vibe here.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. I like hope. I like hope floats.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do not like the movie, but I'm with you on the hope part. If you have any information about the murder of Marlene Hayes, you can call the Harford County Sheriff's office at 410-838-6600, or submit an anonymous tip at www.p3tips.com. So, Gibbs, as we wrap this one up, there's a part of me that thinks about the unfortunate timing of things. You know, what if Marlene doesn't get sick that day and she doesn't have to go home early? Do her and Thomas get home after work and discover that their home has been robbed? Okay, that would be a horrible thing. It would, but she would still Be alive.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think about that stuff quite a bit.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Whether you want to call it the butterfly effect or whatever it is, you know, one like deviation in someone's day can lead to something horrible.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It can.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that's what we're seeing here because I don't think she was targeted. I really don't. I think she walked in on a person or persons burglarizing the home and for whatever reason, they decided to kill her. It very likely could have been because they weren't wearing masks when they. And she saw them.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right. They were worried that she could identify them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. And as we've heard before, many killers say we just didn't want to take a chance on this person identifying us or I or, you know, however many people there are.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. Because a lot of them have already served time and they don't want to go back.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they learned that. Right. They, they were convicted because someone was able to give a description of them, testify against them. And it's almost, I hate to say the word learned, but they did learn that if they're going to do this in the future, they can't allow that to happen again.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that could be the situation we're talking about here. I don't know, but I would love to see this one solved. Absolutely.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Same here.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it for our episode on Marlene Hayes. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

[Voicemail Caller Darian]

Hi, Mike and Gibby, this is Darian calling from New York. I know I left a voicemail yesterday, but I am on the episode of the Houston Lovers Lane murders and finally I come across a podcast. Well episode that was unsolved when I listen to it because I'm behind and I'm catching up. But as of March 2026, there was an arrest made for 64 year old Floyd William in Nebraska and they charged him with capital murder. So I came across that because I always research the episodes after I listened to them. Sorry, that's my feral child. And I just got excited. So I just wanted to give you guys an update. Sorry I'm going to end now because she's feral and it's bedtime. But I wish you guys a good evening and keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, thanks for the update. Yeah, we always love that because to be honest, Gibby and I don't spend a lot of time going back and re researching cases we've all already done because we're working on whatever's coming up next.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. But it's Good to hear. It is because we love that somebody is paying for the crime now.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. I like the fact that she called her feral.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I know. Appreciate you.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Hey, what's up, guys? Cats and cat. Mike, congratulations to you, your family, your daughter. Big achievement, accomplishment. It's awesome. Gibby, congrats to you, your engagement. That's awesome, brother. Hope you guys had a good and fun time on your trip. Sounds like you did. Speaking of scuba diving, if you guys have ever seen that movie along King Poly to check it out. I don't know. Something happened on this. Let me call back. Hold on. Okay, he.

[Mike Ferguson]

He probably did call back, but I didn't record that one. But yeah, so it was nice, right? Shout outs for, you know, you getting engaged, my daughter getting married, and we did have really good vacations.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, and also the fact that you didn't get your hot dog caught in your zipper or your. The beans above the franks or whatever when you were putting your suit on and I. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, no, none of that happened, thankfully.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, but this time at least that.

[Mike Ferguson]

That movie. Along Came Polly. I've seen it. I like it. Is that the one with Ben Stiller and Jennifer Aniston, I think.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Isn't that where he gets the.

[Mike Ferguson]

No.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, that's.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's Something about Mary. Is that what you were talking about? I had no idea.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, no.

[Mike Ferguson]

Long Came Polly, I think is Ben Stiller and Jennifer Aniston.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, yeah, they're out on the boat.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but I don't remember the scuba. I might have to go back and watch it because I remember that part.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, I'm trying to think about that too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm. I'll watch it.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Okay. And check it out. So I had. I had beans and franks on my.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just. I just thought you were making a joke. I had no idea it had anything to do with this voicemail. Turns out that you were talking about the wrong movie. But I appreciated it. I appreciated it. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Sam.

[Pluto TV Advertiser]

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