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- [00:01]
Unknown Speaker A
I sold my car in Carvana last night.
- [00:02]
Mike Gibson
Well, that's cool.
- [00:03]
Unknown Speaker A
No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.
- [00:09]
Commercial Announcer
So what's the problem?
- [00:11]
Unknown Speaker A
That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.
- [00:14]
Commercial Announcer
Maybe there's no catch.
- [00:16]
Unknown Speaker A
That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.
- [00:18]
Commercial Announcer
Wow. You need to relax.
- [00:20]
Unknown Speaker A
I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?
- [00:22]
Commercial Announcer
I think it's laminate.
- [00:23]
Unknown Speaker A
Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.
- [00:25]
Commercial Announcer
Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana.
- [00:29]
Mike Gibson
Pick up.
- [00:29]
Commercial Announcer
Fees may apply.
- [00:30]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [01:16]
Progressive Insurance Announcer 2
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- [02:00]
Unknown Speaker A
Foreign.
- [02:11]
Mike Ferguson
And welcome to episode 461 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
- [02:22]
Mike Gibson
I'm doing good. How about you?
- [02:23]
Mike Ferguson
I'm having a really good week, man. Yeah, I've had a run of good weeks.
- [02:27]
Mike Gibson
That's good.
- [02:28]
Mike Ferguson
It is good.
- [02:29]
Mike Gibson
Keep it running.
- [02:30]
Mike Ferguson
I'll keep. I'll try to keep it going.
- [02:31]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, keep it going.
- [02:32]
Mike Ferguson
Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Andrew Bonham.
- [02:35]
Mike Gibson
What's going on, A.B.
- [02:36]
Mike Ferguson
jessica Kramer, Gregory.
- [02:37]
Mike Gibson
Hey, JKG, Stacy.
- [02:40]
Mike Ferguson
Coral Leyva.
- [02:42]
Mike Gibson
Hey, SCL.
- [02:45]
Mike Ferguson
Ashley.
- [02:46]
Mike Gibson
What's going on? Ashley.
- [02:48]
Mike Ferguson
Tim Moran. Hey, Tim, you really cracked yourself up on that one.
- [02:51]
Mike Gibson
I did, I did.
- [02:52]
Mike Ferguson
Lori Quattro Searchi.
- [02:55]
Mike Gibson
I just like that name. Like I gotta keep saying, I don't. Roachi.
- [02:59]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I don't know if we're saying it correctly at all, but it's fun.
- [03:01]
Mike Gibson
I like it.
- [03:02]
Mike Ferguson
And last but not least, EL Miller. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Brittany.
- [03:10]
Mike Gibson
Hey, Britney. So. Yeah. Change it up a little bit.
- [03:14]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, it did.
- [03:14]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [03:15]
Mike Ferguson
Gibbs. We have a new episode out right now on True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Christina Sanube. She was stabbed to death days after leaving an abusive relationship and moving into a new home for a fresh start. Her ex boyfriend was a. A person of interest. He was questioned, but he seemed to have a pretty good alibi, so authorities had to turn to alternate suspects. It's a good episode.
- [03:41]
Mike Gibson
It is a good episode.
- [03:42]
Mike Ferguson
Make sure you check that one out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time Unsolved?
- [03:47]
Mike Gibson
I am.
- [03:48]
Mike Ferguson
We're talking about the disappearance of Rico Harris. Rico Harris, a former Harlem Globetrotter, left his mother's home in California on October 10, 2014 and has never been seen or heard from again. His vehicle was found in a remote parking lot on Route 16 in Yolo county, but there was no trace of Rico in the surrounding woods. Rico Omar Harris was born on May 19, 1977. He was the first son of Henry Harris, a former star forward for Idaho state. In the mid-70s. After finishing college, Henry played in a semi professional league in Los Angeles. It was here that he met Rico's mother, Margaret Fernandez. Henry. Margaret and Rico relocated to Oregon where Henry was offered a job. The couple later moved back to the LA area where their next three children were born. Henry and Margaret were inseparable for long periods of time. Then suddenly his mood would shift and he would verbally and physically abuse her. Henry was also verbally and physically abusive to his children, especially Rico. But despite this, Rico craved his father's affection and approval.
- [05:07]
Mike Gibson
I think a lot of kids will do that.
- [05:09]
Mike Ferguson
Well, I think a lot of kids naturally long for their parents approval. I just wonder what the dynamic is in this situation where Rico is being verbally and physically abused by his dad. Does he crave it even more? Disapproval because or affection because he's not getting it all the time. And maybe, you know, as a kid he might think, well, if I can get his approval some of this will stop.
- [05:43]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [05:45]
Mike Ferguson
Margaret eventually left Henry and took the children with her to Alhambra, where she grew up. Henry rarely came to visit his children after Margaret left him. So, I mean, you got to be honest here. Henry was not a great guy.
- [06:02]
Mike Gibson
Not at all.
- [06:03]
Mike Ferguson
He wasn't a good husband. He wasn't a good father. Now, he might have been for stretches because that's what it seemed like. But as it was reported, when his mood would shift, then he became verbally and physically abusive. So, you know, to me, that cancels out the good dad or good husband periods of time.
- [06:27]
Mike Gibson
Oh, for sure.
- [06:28]
Mike Ferguson
Rico took care of his siblings while his mom worked. In an interview with Fox Sports, Margaret said about Rico, I don't know how my kid has so many qualities me and his dad don't have. Patient, loving, super enthusiastic, Rico grew up playing basketball. Although he showed promise, he quit at age 15. He and his best friend David Laura wanted to be actors. So the two boys commuted an hour and a half each way to Hollywood High School. Well, you're in la. Is it more likely that someone would want to be an actor than, let's say, me and you growing up in the middle of nowhere, Ohio?
- [07:08]
Mike Gibson
Oh, absolutely. And if you think if you go to like, Hollywood High, maybe you'll be in class with some other famous people's kids, maybe make a connection.
- [07:19]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, or maybe some kids who are already doing stuff in the world of acting. Child actors, maybe. Rico left Hollywood High a year later to return to basketball. For most of his teens and early 20s, he was praised for his NBA level potential. The 6 foot 8 teen was said to be a sensation on the court. I mean, six foot eight is, is a good size, right, for playing basketball right now. I would love to be six eight.
- [07:51]
Mike Gibson
So would I.
- [07:53]
Mike Ferguson
You'd love to be six foot? Oh man. But no, seriously, I, you know, at 6:2, I was a decent basketball player, but if I was 6 8, I think I would have been better.
- [08:08]
Mike Gibson
See, an extra 6 inches does make a difference.
- [08:10]
Mike Ferguson
It does. I've heard that. But when somebody says, you know, that a teenager has NBA level potential, yeah, that's a big deal.
- [08:20]
Mike Gibson
That is a big deal.
- [08:21]
Mike Ferguson
Margaret often said her son was born to play basketball. Rico was a Lakers fan, and he looked up to players like Magic Johnson. While living at his mother's home in Alhambra, Rico used his father's home address to enroll at Temple City High School his junior year. He turned Temple City High into a must see destination for scouts and basketball aficionados and that's what one really good basketball player can do. There is a guy playing in the NBA right now by the name of Luke Kennard who, you know, went to school like a town over, right from where I live. And I played with his uncles. And you know, I won't say I knew the family, but I used to play against them. They were all good basketball players. But he was in a different class. Yes, he ended up going to Duke. He's in the NBA. But you know, he was scoring 40, 50, 60 points in every high school basketball game. It was like a grown man playing against second graders. Yeah, he was that good.
- [09:26]
Mike Gibson
Right.
- [09:26]
Mike Ferguson
You can just tell when somebody is head and shoulders above everybody that, that they play against. Now when you get to college, it starts to even out a little bit. And obviously when you get to the NBA, it evens out quite a bit. And you might not even be close to the level that other people are.
- [09:46]
Mike Gibson
You remember though, that one time I played some one on one with them and smoked them with my, my fade out shots.
- [09:54]
Mike Ferguson
Fade out. You really just outed yourself as someone who knows absolutely nothing about basketball.
- [10:01]
Mike Gibson
Swish, swish.
- [10:03]
Mike Ferguson
David Benezra, Rico summer AAU coach, told Fox Sports. Somehow this small high school team landed Rico and other teams would double and triple team him, but you could just watch for a couple of plays and you could see the player he could be. But it was, said Gibbs, that even though Rico's school was just a few blocks from his father's home, Henry never came to a single game.
- [10:28]
Mike Gibson
And he is not a good father, is he?
- [10:31]
Mike Ferguson
No, absolutely not. Yeah, I don't think he's, he was a great person. When Rico was 17, during one of his father's few visits, Rico turned to greet him and Henry noticed an earring in his ear. Henry beat him across the chest with a hockey stick. Rico was shocked and retreated to his room. He later explained the attack by saying it was his father's defect. He continued to ask about Henry to see if he needed help. At age 19, Rico wanted to reconcile with Henry. But Henry told him he wasn t cut out to be a father. And at least he recognized that because he sure wasn't.
- [11:10]
Mike Gibson
You're, you're right. And I just think Rico really wanted
- [11:16]
Mike Ferguson
his dad's attention, approval, affection. He wanted all of it. You know, and when you have a person like that who's withholding it and let's say, you know, he did look up to him, he was a good basketball player. Maybe he envied or, you know, Looked up to that part. Maybe not so much the dad part, but that thing you want, do you want it even more? Because you can't get it. And I think for a lot of people that's true. Right. We want what we can't have. In school, Rico was shy. He was also a poor student. His first serious relationship was with a girl named Melinda Young. Melinda came from a family who valued academics and, and with her influence, Rico's GPA improved to a 3.0.
- [12:03]
Mike Gibson
Impressive.
- [12:03]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I mean, that's good for somebody who was labeled as a poor student. Rico's best friend, David Laura, told Fox Sports she was the love of his life. Her family embraced him and he spent a lot of time over there. The Long Beach Press Telegram recognized Rico, along with future NBA players Paul Pierce, Jason Terry and Chauncey Billups, as one of the top players in the west during the 199495 season. I mean, if you're mentioned with those guys, I mean, Paul Pierce is one of the best. Chauncey Billups was great. Jason Terry was a really good NBA player.
- [12:44]
Mike Gibson
Some top notch guys.
- [12:45]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. UCLA offered Rico a scholarship, but they had to withdraw due to his poor SAT scores. And you know, there are a lot of kids like that, they're phenomenal basketball players, but they can never go to, let's say a Division 1 college because they can't pass the academic portion or they don't meet the requirements. So they end up having to go to a junior college or something like that.
- [13:13]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, you know, they can try to do all the tutoring they can to hopefully get that score up. But like you said, if they can't, you know, junior college, hopefully you can progress well through that to go ahead and take that next step later.
- [13:26]
Mike Ferguson
After graduating high school, Rico attended Arizona state. Under Proposition 48, he attempted to regain eligibility, but he struggled both academically and socially. He called home daily. He was shy, silent in class, and had few close friends. In March 1996, Rico and his teammates, G. Girvin and Tommy Prince, were arrested for unlawful imprisonment after two women said the players forced them to perform sex acts against their will. Rico was the only one not accused of the more serious charge of sexual assault. Now, the charges were later dropped after investigators determined there were inconsistencies in the women's stories. But the university still asked Rico to sit out another year. Instead, he returned to California and enrolled in Los Angeles City College, a two year junior college. He hoped to improve his grades and transfer to Rhode island, where former UCLA coach Jim Herrick had recruited him to go back in high school.
- [14:34]
Mike Gibson
Some kids like to follow that coach.
- [14:36]
Mike Ferguson
They do. And you know, Jim Herrick, he won a national championship at UCLA right before this. I believe I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he was the coach when they won.
- [14:51]
Mike Gibson
That's a lot of credibility.
- [14:53]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. Rico was a star at LACC and was one of the best players on the court. He averaged 16.5 points per game. NBA scouts began attending games, hoping he might consider going straight to the NBA once he was old enough to. His teammate Derek Anderson told Fox Sports he was Lamar Odom before Lamar Odom. Wow. And, you know, there's a Netflix documentary out right now on the life and death of Lamar Odom. But Lamar Odom was an unbelievable college player.
- [15:27]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [15:27]
Mike Ferguson
And he was good in the pros as well. Really good. He just struggled with some personal demons.
- [15:34]
Mike Gibson
Yes.
- [15:35]
Mike Ferguson
Chrisan Thompson, another of Rico's friends and teammate at lacc, told the LA Times, I saw firsthand Rico could have had a million dollar check easy. Something happened to my brother in his spirit that didn't allow him to break through the ceiling. So while he was at lacc, they won their first ever California Community College Athletic association state title. He was named the tournament's mvp. After winning that, he only needed to pass one more class. It was a psychology course before he could transfer to Rhode Island. But halfway through the semester, he stopped attending class and failed.
- [16:16]
Mike Gibson
Man, so close.
- [16:18]
Mike Ferguson
The LA Times wrote at the time, it's almost as if Harris purposefully failed the summer class to avoid heading east. I just wonder, you know, if it goes back to us talking about, you know, he was shy, he was introverted. It's one thing to be really good at basketball. It's another thing to go to, you know, a bigger school where the. The lights are brighter.
- [16:44]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [16:45]
Mike Ferguson
If you're this person who doesn't like the spotlight, that's true. Now, Rhode Island's not the biggest school when it comes to basketball. No, but they're not small. I think that's where Lamar Odom went, I believe was Rhode Island.
- [16:58]
Mike Gibson
I mean, they're competitive.
- [17:00]
Mike Ferguson
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- [18:18]
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- [18:35]
Mike Ferguson
Today Rico visited UConn, but he returned to LACC for a second season, which he later said was a mistake. I mean again, if you're getting offers from places like the University of Connecticut, ucla, you are a very good basketball player. Because these are big time basketball schools.
- [18:55]
Mike Gibson
They're not going to take mediocre kids.
- [18:57]
Mike Ferguson
Well, they try not to. That's how you become mediocre. They're trying to get the best of the best. Rico became less focused on basketball and he started partying heavily with his brother Tito and in their off campus apartment he drank throughout the day to take the edge off his hangovers.
- [19:16]
Mike Gibson
How do you get rid of a hangover? Drink some more hair.
- [19:19]
Mike Ferguson
The dog is. Is that what they call it? His drinking though, didn't seem to affect his playing, but Rico was considered a disruptive influence that season. At one point he was suspended for six games.
- [19:32]
Mike Gibson
I mean, when I bowl, if I drink, I bowl better. Is it the same thing? I can. He can play basketball. If he drinks, I can bowl. And he actually bowl better if I drink.
- [19:42]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a different level of athleticism required. That drinking might affect basketball just a hair more than bowling.
- [19:54]
Mike Gibson
My ball's heavier.
- [19:55]
Mike Ferguson
It probably is. It's also probably longer at your age.
- [20:00]
Mike Gibson
But to be suspended for six games, that's going to be detrimental to his potential career.
- [20:06]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I mean it does seem like the LA Times road. He's trying to derail himself really self sabotaging Yeah, I think that's a. That's a perfect term. Rico's drinking increased as the season went on. It was said that he was isolated from his peers. He lost his relationship with his high school girlfriend. But recruiters continued calling and writing. He just stopped responding. He believed many of them were interested in him only because of his athletic abilities and not his personal development or character.
- [20:41]
Mike Gibson
Well, unfortunately, he was probably right.
- [20:43]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I would say most recruiters are interested in your athletic abilities. Now. A lot of them do look at personal characteristics, your character and things like that. But you can have the best character in the world. If you can't play basketball, you're not getting a scholarship.
- [21:01]
Mike Gibson
Exactly.
- [21:03]
Mike Ferguson
Rico declared himself for the 1998 NBA Draft. He was invited to the pre draft camp in Chicago. And that's a big deal because really only the highly regarded prospects get invited. But he didn't take the opportunity and he withdrew from the draft believing he wasn't ready.
- [21:23]
Mike Gibson
More of that self sabotage and he
- [21:26]
Mike Ferguson
ended up not going to Rhode Island. In the end, he transferred to a smaller school, Northridge. And he said about that decision, I was tired of everybody pressuring me. I was stressed out. And, you know, he did pretty well. He scored like an average of 10 points a game. But scouts could tell that, you know, he just wasn't the same player. And he basically got removed off of most of their lists of prospects.
- [21:54]
Mike Gibson
Yeah. Didn't have the potential they once saw. No.
- [21:57]
Mike Ferguson
And maybe that was due to heavy drinking. Maybe that was due to other things. I don't know. He left Northridge shortly after the season ended and never played college basketball again. David Laura told Fox Sports that the only time Rico was really coachable and likable was in high school. That's when he wasn't experimenting with drugs and alcohol. And he just wasn't good at dealing with people and their expectations. He did keep playing basketball, though. He didn't give up on his dream of playing in the NBA. He played for short periods with the International Basketball League, San Diego stingrays and St. Louis storm. And then in the spring of 2000, Rico joined the Harlem Globetrotters.
- [22:41]
Mike Gibson
Man, and I love the Globetrotters growing up.
- [22:44]
Mike Ferguson
Me too. They, they were like mythical figures when I was a kid. I mean, there was Magic Johnson and Larry Bird and Michael Jordan. Right. All these great guys in the pros. But then you had the Harlem Globetrotters who did things that it seemed like nobody else could do.
- [23:04]
Mike Gibson
Oh, so awesome, man. And I remember some guy named Curly. I can't remember what is.
- [23:08]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, yeah. Was he the ball headed guy? I think, yeah. I don't know.
- [23:12]
Mike Gibson
I don't know why either.
- [23:13]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, that's like a great big guy being named Tiny or whatever.
- [23:17]
Mike Gibson
But it was just amazing to watch. And, you know, obviously when I grew up a little bit more, I realized it was scripted, some of it, you know.
- [23:24]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. Like wrestling a little bit. But they still could do those things. I mean, you can't script the stuff that they were able to do now, the games and, you know, the, well, I'm going to put the, the ball in my shirt and the ref can't find it. And some of that stuff like that. The antics were scripted, but you had to be very, very talented to be a Harlem Globetrotter for sure. Just one month after joining the team, Rico was out driving with a girlfriend in South Los Angeles when they got into an argument with a group of people. While talking to one of the men, someone hit him across the back of the head with a baseball bat. He was able to drive away, but he soon began experiencing intense headaches and. And had trouble keeping his balance. He had to leave the Globetrotters due to these after effects marking the end of his basketball career at the age of 24.
- [24:20]
Mike Gibson
Heartbreaking.
- [24:21]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. But we've talked about it many times. You know, head injuries, they can be so devastating.
- [24:28]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [24:29]
Mike Ferguson
Rico moved back to his mom's house in Alhambra after he left the Globetrotters. According to Margaret, things went downhill after that. It had a lot to do with him not having the career he wanted to have, feeling like he had become a failure. And I do think this is kind of the dark side of sports that a lot of people don't talk about. You know, these kids are hyped from a very young age nowadays, even younger than they used to be. They're told they're going to be the next Michael Jordan. Yeah. That they're going to, you know, have these big time college offers. They're going to go to the NBA, but they don't all make it. And then a lot of them, what do they have to fall back on?
- [25:17]
Mike Gibson
Not much, because they always believed they were going to be the next Michael or Dr. J or Larry Bird or whoever. Right?
- [25:24]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. So they didn't maybe spend a lot of time studying, maybe just enough to, to get by. Some of them don't end up getting their degrees. And, you know, it's kind of the sad part of sports. You know, Rico had no job prospects. He really had no plans for his future. And he soon Started drinking again. Margaret hoped Rico would, quote, snap out of it. But his addiction worsened and he started using heroin, meth and crack.
- [25:53]
Mike Gibson
So he's just spiraling out of control?
- [25:55]
Mike Ferguson
Oh, he's going from bad to worse. Right. Obviously, he had a problem with alcohol. Now he's into very, very hard drugs. Heroin, meth, crack. One friend recalled that Rico would sniff Ajax just to feel a burn. That cannot be good for you.
- [26:14]
Mike Gibson
I would not think so.
- [26:16]
Mike Ferguson
I'm not saying meth is good for you, but, Ajax, that cannot be good for you at all.
- [26:21]
Mike Gibson
No. I mean, that's like scouring powder.
- [26:25]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. He experienced a lot of relapses. He was arrested over 100 times, mostly for public intoxication. Between 2001 and 2007, Rico faced 16 cases in LA County Court for public intox, burglary and trespassing. Rico was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but stopped taking medication because he didn't like how it made him feel. According to the LA Times, that's going
- [26:55]
Mike Gibson
to be some rough times for him.
- [26:56]
Mike Ferguson
Well, you're okay with sniffing Ajax, but won't take your medication for a diagnosed disorder? Come on, now. I mean, something is going on.
- [27:08]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [27:09]
Mike Ferguson
The thinking is flawed. There's no doubt about it. You know, he would spend a few days in jail, and then, you know, he'd go back to drinking. During one stint in jail, Rico saw his father. It was the first time they'd seen
- [27:22]
Mike Gibson
each other in years while in jail. Hey, dad. Remember me?
- [27:27]
Mike Ferguson
Remember that time he hit me in the chest with a hockey stick?
- [27:31]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [27:31]
Mike Ferguson
Rico's friend, David Laura warned him, if you keep spiraling down the rabbit hole, the only way this ends is with you being dead.
- [27:40]
Mike Gibson
Well, he's right.
- [27:42]
Mike Ferguson
He's 100% right. And that's. That's a friend right there.
- [27:44]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [27:45]
Mike Ferguson
A friend is someone who will tell you the truth even when you don't want to hear it. And I'm sure Rico did not want to hear that, but he had to hear it. He lost a lot of jobs because of drinking. He occasionally begged in the streets to support his addiction.
- [28:05]
Mike Gibson
You see how far he has tumbled.
- [28:07]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. It was only in 2007, shortly after his 30th birthday, that he finally started to change. After overdosing on prescription medication, he entered a rehab facility operated by the Salvation army in downtown la. After finishing the program, Rico began attending daily support group meetings. He learned to let go of his anger towards others and himself. He got a job in the soup kitchen, preparing meals for patients in the clinic. He enjoyed using his Math skills to calculate the amount of food needed for each meal. He felt like the work gave him purpose.
- [28:48]
Mike Gibson
Everybody needs to feel like they have a purpose.
- [28:50]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. I mean, it's an important thing.
- [28:52]
Mike Gibson
It is.
- [28:53]
Mike Ferguson
But you know, we've not been talking about Rico in glowing terms.
- [28:58]
Mike Gibson
Right.
- [28:58]
Mike Ferguson
We've had to talk about a lot of things that, you know, he did in his life that frankly, we're very self destructive. But now we're getting to talk about something good.
- [29:10]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [29:11]
Mike Ferguson
You know, he's turning his life around. He's going to daily meetings. He got a job at a soup kitchen. He's helping other people out. David Laura recalled to Fox Sports. It took him a long time to get to that place where he was socially comfortable again. He had gone into his own world. So when he reemerged, the world was a different place. People had turned their back on him. They were no longer interested in being his friend. He worked really hard to prove that he was a hardworking, good natured, lovable human being. And I'm telling you right now, people will root for individuals like Rico Harris. Yeah. You've gone through some terrible things, some of which were your own fault, some things that you caused. Now, how much of that had something to do with his father? You know, we don't know. I'm sure there's something to it. But, you know, there's a story where when somebody turns their life around, that's a feel good story.
- [30:16]
Mike Gibson
It is. Everybody loves to come back.
- [30:18]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. Rico moved in with Wilfredo Mayorga, another graduate of the program, and got a security job in the city of Bell. He also worked security at underground parties in LA to supplement his income. Let's not forget the guy was 6, 8. Yeah, I'm sure he was a pretty
- [30:37]
Mike Gibson
big dude and he played a pretty good level of basketball, so he was not afraid to mix it up.
- [30:43]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, probably made a pretty good security guard. According to LA Times, Rico would occasionally leave for four or five days without warning. He liked to drive out to Arizona or Nevada to clear his head. He would sometimes come back with stories about going on cruises or meeting women, but he never gave any details. I don't know what kind of job you got that lets you leave for four or five days without warning and maybe there is no job and that once he got back, he'd have to find a new job. I don't know.
- [31:14]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like, hey, Bob, take me off the schedule for the next five days, I'll be back.
- [31:20]
Mike Ferguson
Maybe security would be one of Those jobs, if you're at events or something, you just say, I'm not working those events. In early 2012, Rico met a woman named Jennifer Song while working security at a restaurant. Jennifer was an insurance broker visiting from Seattle. Rico took her photo and asked if he could text it to her. Jennifer recalled that Rico was shy but a gentleman. They soon started dating, spending long weekends in each other's cities. By September 2014, they were talking about getting married and having kids.
- [31:54]
Mike Gibson
So he's really come a long way if you think about it.
- [31:57]
Mike Ferguson
Well, in this story arc of unbelievable talent to at some point rock bottom to now working his way up out of it to the point where he's met someone, he seems to be doing well and he's talking about getting married and having kids. I mean it. Again, like you said, people love a comeback story, right? Rico and his roommate Wilfredo Mayorga clashed over the relationship. For unspecified reasons, Wilfredo gave Rico an ultimatum. Him or Jennifer? Rico didn't like conflict. So he moved out in the middle of the night, leaving Wilfredo with the unpaid bills. And then four days later, he moved to Seattle to be with Jennifer. And I think that's a strange ultimatum to give to somebody.
- [32:53]
Mike Gibson
It is.
- [32:54]
Mike Ferguson
Especially somebody who is infatuated in love. They're not going to pick you. Most likely.
- [33:02]
Mike Gibson
It's like, hey, our friendship's good, but she does things you don't do for me.
- [33:07]
Mike Ferguson
And we're talking about getting married and having kids and. But what you said is probably more likely to be the the reason summer
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- [34:15]
Mike Ferguson
But it wasn't long after Rico moved to Seattle that he started questioning his decision. According to interviews conducted by the lead detective in Rico's case, Jennifer could be controlling. They shared a Facebook page, credit cards, and a bank account. They also were arguing in the days after he moved in. Okay. Sharing a Facebook page. I don't know how common that is. You know me. I'm not a Facebook person. Yeah, but I certainly wouldn't share a page with my wife.
- [34:49]
Mike Gibson
Or your wife wouldn't share a page with you.
- [34:51]
Mike Ferguson
That's. That's true, too.
- [34:53]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [34:53]
Mike Ferguson
And I sure as hell wouldn't share one with you.
- [34:56]
Mike Gibson
Well, you kind of do true crime all the time.
- [34:59]
Mike Ferguson
You do. But, you know, to. To share one, like, personal page that. I. I don't know. I don't think most people do that. Maybe I'm wrong.
- [35:07]
Mike Gibson
Let me tell you what Mike's up to today.
- [35:08]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah.
- [35:09]
Mike Gibson
Yeah. No, I think that's just like. I know some couples do it because it's. It's how they are. Right. They're close. They have the same friends. It's. You talk to one, it's like talking to both.
- [35:22]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I get that.
- [35:23]
Mike Gibson
But then you have other people. They just want to have their own identity. Not doing anything wrong. They just want to have their own identity. And for you to, like, demand to be on the account with them, Is that because insecurities. Is that because you don't trust them? Is that because you want to control them? Probably.
- [35:44]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. I could see how that could be. It's also not a good sign when you're. You're arguing a lot just days after moving in together, because you still. You would think, be in that kind of honeymoon period, even though you're not married yet, but that. That new relationship period, it should be all peaches and cream.
- [36:06]
Mike Gibson
And for Rico, you're gonna wonder if you made the right decision to move that far away from where, really where your home is.
- [36:14]
Mike Ferguson
Well, Rico's mother voiced concerns about his relationship to the detective, saying it was always a honeymoon because they saw each other every three months or so. She told Rico, it's different if you live together.
- [36:27]
Mike Gibson
Well, that is true.
- [36:28]
Mike Ferguson
That's very true. There's some people who get along great, move in together, and realize they cannot stand each other. It's not that they can't stand each other. They can't stand living with each other because it is a very different dynamic. Like you said, you have your space. You have your own kind of personal identity, and now you're combining it with someone else. And you're with that person pretty much all the time, except for, let's say, when you're at work, which is different than when you're dating and you go out to dinner, go to a movie. But then, you know, eventually each Person goes back to their own place, let's say, or their parents house or whatever it is. Yeah, it's just a different dynamic.
- [37:22]
Mike Gibson
It really is. I mean, the old we pop in for a few days, have some fun and get on out. It's not going to be the same when you pop in and you don't pop back out.
- [37:34]
Mike Ferguson
You're doing a lot of popping in
- [37:36]
Voicemail Caller (Caveman)
and out,
- [37:38]
Mike Ferguson
Popping and locking.
- [37:39]
Mike Gibson
Yep.
- [37:40]
Mike Ferguson
All right, 1980s called. They want your dance moves back. But this is troubling, right? Rico's mom telling detectives that Jennifer is controlling. Rico tried to settle into life in Washington. He got a Washington driver's license and arranged an interview for a job as a property appraiser, which he was looking forward to because it was the first time he held a skilled position unrelated to athletics.
- [38:09]
Mike Gibson
That's a good point.
- [38:11]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I get that. I mean, he was working security. All right. Would you call that a skilled position? Some people might, but obviously he didn't look at it that way. He probably also thought that getting that job was related to his athletics in, in some sense because of, you know, how strong he was, how he was built, how tall he was.
- [38:34]
Mike Gibson
He had that stature.
- [38:35]
Mike Ferguson
Before the interview, Rico decided he needed to return to Alhambra to visit his mother and brother one more time. The drive from Seattle to Alhambra is 1100 miles, or about 18 hours.
- [38:51]
Mike Gibson
That's a haul.
- [38:52]
Mike Ferguson
It is. Jennifer said about Rico's decision to go back to Alhambra in October. I think he realized some things and he wanted to talk to his mother. I think there are things that happened in his childhood and early adult life that continued with his decision to move to Seattle. He wanted her to trust him and trust us and believe in our relationship. And it's just so interesting to me that all these different things in his life either seem to point back to his childhood or people are saying that they do.
- [39:26]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [39:27]
Mike Ferguson
And some of maybe the things that he dealt with with his father and I don't know, I'm not sure people understand just exactly how bad they can mess up their kids lives.
- [39:43]
Mike Gibson
They can definitely jack them up.
- [39:44]
Mike Ferguson
As he drove down I5 to Alhambra, Rico called his mother and brother and sent a text confirming his job interview. He also talked to his friend, David Lara. Rico expressed his desire to have a family. One day, during that last conversation, as reported by the LA Times, Rico mentioned that he'd had a hard couple of months. He was struggling with depression and started drinking again.
- [40:12]
Mike Gibson
Well, we know that when he drank last time, he could really Turn it on.
- [40:17]
Mike Ferguson
And it caused him to spiral. Yeah, right downward very quickly. You just wonder what was at that point causing his depression, which probably in turn caused him to start drinking again because it seemed like he'd been doing really well. There had to have been something.
- [40:37]
Mike Gibson
Yeah. Was it the relationship? Was it move, move?
- [40:42]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, we don't know. Rico arrived in Alhambra on October 9, 2014. His visit was brief. He took one of his brothers out to eat and gave him a new cell phone as a gift. He also had a beer with his stepfather. During their visit, Rico questioned if moving was the right choice. His stepfather asked why he was moving. Then Rico said, well, I'm ashamed of the things that happened down here and I want to start another life. Rico then returned to his mother's home to talk to her alone, privately. According to the LA Times, as he packed some of his clothes up, his mom told him about her disappointment and his relapse and urged him to pull it together. Rico agreed and apologized. I think his mom was a really big person in his life.
- [41:31]
Mike Gibson
Oh, I agree with you. As a lot of moms are.
- [41:35]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. Maybe even more so for him because of what he went through with his dad.
- [41:41]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, she was like the mom and the dad in that dynamic.
- [41:47]
Mike Ferguson
Margaret did not believe Rico got what he was hoping for out of the conversation. She told Fox Sports he wasn't in a good place and he had to clear his mind. Shortly after midnight on October 10th, Rico decided to start driving back to Seattle. His interview was scheduled for the 11th, and he had plans to attend a barbecue with Jennifer to meet his new neighbors. Rico drove north on I5 leaving Alhambra. He stopped in Lodi, about 40 miles south of Sacramento to get gas. He made a wrong turn, corrected himself and passed north through Sacramento. He then got on Route 16. Rico talked to his mother at 9:45am as he passed through Sacramento, he left Jennifer a voicemail. At 10:45am he told her he hadn't slept more than a few minutes in 36 hours and was going up into the mountains to rest. Now it was said that he didn't sound uneasy in his voicemail. Rico's phone lost reception around 11:15am no one has heard from Rico or positively identified him since then. Then Jennifer called Rico's mother when he failed to show up in Seattle, as expected, Margaret recalled that Rico had once disappeared for a few hours to San Diego. So they decided to wait and see if he would come back on his own. And that doesn't surprise me because I think we Talked about it a couple times. It's a guy that would take off for four or five days.
- [43:23]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, he liked to drive long drives to clear his head.
- [43:27]
Progressive Insurance Announcer 2
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- [43:27]
Mike Ferguson
So, okay, now, what I did think was strange is going up into the mountains to rest, maybe to get off
- [43:38]
Mike Gibson
the main, drag, the main road and just go up the mountain a little bit, find a little spot to pull
- [43:44]
Mike Ferguson
over and just sleep in his car.
- [43:46]
Mike Gibson
In your car.
- [43:46]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, I get that. I guess that makes sense. On October 14, 2014, Officer Danny Del Castillo of the Yolo County Sheriff's Office pulled into Lower Site, a parking lot on Route 16. His job was to survey the area, look around campgrounds and rest stops, and take note of anything out of the ordinary. The parking lot faces a public restroom structure and a series of hiking trails. One trail starts across the creek and goes up into the hills. Smaller trails follow the water. Officer Del Castillo noticed the same black Nissan Maxima two days in a row. It was pulled up tightly against a row of bushes. And this is what really triggered alarms for him. Yeah, the doors were locked in, the interior was Messy. There were CDs, credit cards and papers scattered around. Del Castillo ran the license plate. The car wasn't stolen and there were no outstanding tickets or warrants. He called headquarters in Woodland. The sheriff decided to contact local authorities where the car was registered. In Alhambra, two Alhambra officers went to the home of Margaret Fernandez and informed her that Rico's abandoned car had been found, but not Rico. Over the next three days, deputies searched a 27 mile stretch of Highway 16 and areas surrounding the Yolo County Park's Lower site. Teams on ATVs and helicopters assisted, as well as an airplane with a thermographic camera and search dogs. So they, they brought out a good deal of, of equipment and individuals.
- [45:33]
Mike Gibson
I mean, they're making the effort to try to find them.
- [45:35]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, absolutely. But nothing was found. Rico's description was circulated in the media. There were a few potential sightings reported. A motorist thought he saw Rico sitting on a guardrail overlooking the creek near the parking lot. At 5:30am on Oct. 11, one passerby along Route 16 reported seeing a man who fit Rico's description walking along the road at 8am Investigators noted Rico's car was out of gas and the battery was nearly dead. His wallet and all his car, except for a Discover Card. We're in the car. No charges have been made on the Discover card since Rico went missing. He also took his phone and driver's license with him. You know, the one thing That I kind of want to talk about is potential sightings. Right. We talk about that in a lot of cases.
- [46:31]
Mike Gibson
We do.
- [46:32]
Mike Ferguson
But I would think Rico being 6 foot 8.
- [46:36]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [46:37]
Mike Ferguson
Would help lend credibility to some of the sightings. I mean, it'd be much different if he was 5:10. Right. A lot of men are 5:10 or 5:11 or 6 foot. There are not that many people who are 6 foot 8.
- [46:52]
Mike Gibson
But yeah, when you say 6 foot
- [46:53]
Mike Ferguson
8, it narrows the population down quite a bit. And what are the odds that there's going to be multiple guys who are 6 foot 8 at this place at. On this day?
- [47:07]
Mike Gibson
Very unlikely.
- [47:08]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. As opposed to. Well, there might be 10, 20, 30 guys that are 5 11.
- [47:15]
Mike Gibson
I mean, the car is almost out of gas, or the car is out of gas and the batteries almost ran down. Maybe he fell asleep with the car running and ran out of gas and, you know, then the battery slowly dying out. So then he had to go find a way to get more gas or get help. And maybe that's why they saw him walking and sitting in these different spots.
- [47:39]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, okay, I get that. But why take just the Discover card? If you're. If you're going on foot to try to, you know, go get something, wouldn't you want your wallet and all your cards? What if the place you get to doesn't take discovery?
- [47:55]
Mike Gibson
I mean, it's a good point. I mean, what a great commercial if he. If he did come back with gas with his Discover card. Because you can say the only card you ever need is the Discover card. But that didn't happen. Maybe his other cars didn't have any room to charge anything on them.
- [48:12]
Mike Ferguson
That could be. But still, why leave your wallet? You don't have to.
- [48:16]
Mike Gibson
Why not just throw it all in your pocket and walk with it?
- [48:18]
Voicemail Caller (Caveman)
Right.
- [48:19]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah.
- [48:21]
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- [49:46]
Mike Ferguson
There were two plastic bottles in the car. One was mostly full of liquor and the other was empty but smelled strongly of alcohol.
- [49:55]
Mike Gibson
So he most likely drank a bit.
- [49:58]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, either on the way down or on the way back. Or maybe even both. On October 18, another sighting was reported. A man who drove past the parking lot told police he saw a large man wearing light colored pants similar to those Rico had been wearing when he left his mom's house early that morning. The following day, a trail of fresh foot impressions left by size 18 sneakers consistent with those Rico wore were found leading from the parking lot to the creek where his car had been parked. And that's another great clue because, you know, just like being 6 8, not many people wear size 18 sneakers.
- [50:42]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, it's going to be pretty limited. And my boy wears size 14. I thought those are big.
- [50:47]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, 18, that, that's a. That's a large shoe. Investigators then found Rico's backpack on the side of the road nearly two miles from the lower site parking lot and about 1500ft from the guardrail he was reported to have been sitting on on October 11th. Inside the backpack was Rico's phone charger and other personal items. There were no rips in the backpack. There were no scratches on the phone. Investigators suspected that he left it there accidentally or possibly because he wanted to avoid detection. Through his phone's gps, Rico's phone contained photos of Cache Creek and some selfies, including one in which Rico was standing in front of Assange welcoming drivers to Yolo county, striking what authorities called a playful pose. There were also some videos that appeared to have been taken unintentionally. The videos were dark, but officers could hear Rico singing and tossing the contents of his wallet and and CDs around the car. They were timestamped for the night of October 10, showing he was alive and in his car at that time. And you know who hasn't Done that on their phone. Right. Accidentally hit the button to start recording a video, you don't know it's on.
- [52:13]
Mike Gibson
I've never done that.
- [52:15]
Mike Ferguson
Oh, I've done that. You ever butt dialed somebody?
- [52:18]
Mike Gibson
No.
- [52:19]
Mike Ferguson
Okay. Do you use your phone in any capacity?
- [52:23]
Mike Gibson
But dialed plenty of people.
- [52:25]
Mike Ferguson
Okay, maybe it's just me. Maybe I. Maybe because sometimes when I think I'm taking a photo, it's on video. I've swiped it, you know, on accident.
- [52:36]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, we've. We've meaning me and a few other your friends have gotten some videos from you in the past. We don't ever bring it up. Because of the nature of the video. Yeah, we're like, just best to delete.
- [52:49]
Mike Ferguson
But you did post them.
- [52:51]
Mike Gibson
Well, the two I did, the other ones I deleted, they weren't even saved the post.
- [52:56]
Mike Ferguson
Detective Dean Nyland from the Yolo County Sheriff's Department was the primary investigator in Rico's case. One of the first things he did was contact at&t to map out Rico's movements. Using cell tower pings, Rico went north on I5 east of Route 20 before pausing and turning around and heading west back across I5, then turning south toward the Capay Hills on Route 16. Nylan found texts from Rico's brother and roommate and some business related messages. There were calls to his mother and girlfriend, but no calls or messages suggesting he was meeting someone near the lower site parking lot. Now, I just wonder if, you know, this kind of correlates to him not getting that much sleep, because to me, this would be the place to pull over.
- [53:53]
Mike Gibson
Right? Right.
- [53:54]
Mike Ferguson
Maybe take a cat nap or something.
- [53:56]
Mike Gibson
And whatever the fact that he was tired. Tired, and maybe he. Because he was drinking.
- [54:03]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah. It could dovetail into your theory of, okay, he's got the car on, maybe he's running the ac, doesn't realize he doesn't have that much gas. He falls asleep, the car runs out of gas, and then the battery dies. Yeah, it's possible.
- [54:22]
Mike Gibson
Possible.
- [54:23]
Mike Ferguson
I mean, a lack of sleep paired with drinking alcohol. I mean, drinking alcohol on its own while you're driving is terrible.
- [54:31]
Mike Gibson
It is.
- [54:32]
Mike Ferguson
But when you pair it with a lack of sleep, that's a real bad combination.
- [54:37]
Mike Gibson
If you remember what he told Jennifer. He said he was been up for 36 hours with just a few minutes of sleep. I mean, your mind's going to play tricks on you.
- [54:48]
Mike Ferguson
That would. That wouldn't be good for me if I was sober as a judge. Yeah, lack of sleep can have some real detrimental effects. And I can just imagine drinking on top of that. It cannot be good.
- [55:04]
Mike Gibson
By the way, are judges always sober?
- [55:07]
Mike Ferguson
I think they're supposed to be.
- [55:08]
Mike Gibson
Oh, okay.
- [55:09]
Mike Ferguson
I don't know if they always are, but I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be. Nylan questioned Jennifer about why she waited to report Rico missing. She explained that she and Rico's mother agreed to wait, hoping he would turn up. She tried to contact him multiple times. And again, I go back to, you know, him having a history of going off to clear his head for days, if not almost a week at a time. You know, if somebody doesn't have that history, well, maybe it changes things and you call right away or call much sooner. But if somebody's got that track record, they have that history. Maybe you do wait a little bit longer. When speaking to Fox Sports, Detective Niland provided his theory about the sighting and footprints from October 19th. He believes Rico came back for his car, which had been towed and then disappeared into the woods. He told Fox Sports initially he probably voluntarily walked away or got a ride. We have no sighting, so he probably got a ride. But how does this guy not pop up somewhere? I mean, big guy has to eat three or four times a day. I can see how a lot of people who don't stand out can disappear. But this guy stands out.
- [56:28]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, he's a big guy.
- [56:29]
Mike Ferguson
And that's kind of what we were talking about. Six, eight, size 18 shoe. He's a big guy. Yeah, he is. Probably somebody you're going to remember if you see him in a gas station or at a restaurant. Now, he's not seven foot tall, but again, six, eight is pretty tall.
- [56:50]
Mike Gibson
Like I said, big guy.
- [56:52]
Mike Ferguson
On October 22nd, the sheriff's office announced it was scaling back the search. Investigators asked the same question. How could this man. How could a guy like this. Right. Six, eight. Some reports had him at six, nine. They said at that point he weighed like 300 pounds.
- [57:10]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [57:11]
Mike Ferguson
So how could this guy just simply vanish into thin air?
- [57:15]
Mike Gibson
You know, I can be taller, too, when I wear my lifts.
- [57:18]
Mike Ferguson
The fact that you have special shoes made just to make you, like, an inch taller, that's what really throws me.
- [57:24]
Mike Gibson
It's the Tom Cruise brand.
- [57:26]
Mike Ferguson
In November, cadaver dogs searched the valley, and professional divers checked sinkholes in the creek. Detective Nyland also checked homeless shelters and transient camps. Nyland suspected Rico purchased method, probably from the town of Clear Lake, which is known for the meth trade. Fox Sports writer Flinder Boyd drove to Clear Lake and spoke to a local who asked not to be named, who said he believed he saw Rico. On the day he arrived in the Capay Valley, he claimed one of his friends sold meth to Rico in the lower side parking lot before he walked to the creek. But that was all he knew. Detective Nyland feels confident there's no foul play involved in Rico's disappearance. Rico came to Route 16 of his own free will. There was no evidence of a struggle in or near his car. Rico's family wondered if he had a secret bank account he didn't share with Jennifer and that he was possibly alive and in hiding. Authorities suspect Rico may have left his phone behind to avoid being tracked. So, I mean, there's a lot going on here, Gibbs.
- [58:38]
Voicemail Caller (Caveman)
Right?
- [58:38]
Mike Ferguson
There is, and there's a lot of possibilities as we wrap up this case. It's possible that Rico decided to wander around the area for a few days to clear his head. And when he returned to the parking lot, his car was gone. Perhaps he walked back into the woods. Maybe he walked towards another town. Maybe he got a ride from someone, you know, who was passing by.
- [59:03]
Mike Gibson
Could have, but he could also wandered into the woods and just never came back out.
- [59:09]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, that's true. I mean, he. He could have maybe encountered something in the woods, maybe hurt himself accidentally in the woods and couldn't get back. And there's a lot of possibilities now, depending on how far he had gone. If he had died out in the woods somewhat close, you would think a cadaver dog would have picked that up. But it could be a big area.
- [59:36]
Mike Gibson
It could be.
- [59:37]
Mike Ferguson
And we don't know how, how much of that area they searched. Detective Nyland told Fox Sports, I do believe the man left LA torn and conflicted. This is going through his mind as he's coming up. I can see him making that left as he goes through the mountain. I can see him just wanting to hike or listen to his music, just get out of Dodge. Hey, I don't have to be here. And, you know, I think you have to go back and look at his use of alcohol, look at his use of drugs, at pouring it up. At certain points, he was doing better, but he, you know, he relapsed at times, as people often do. The alcohol in the car, to me, is a bad sign. As far as where he was in his sobriety. If he's drinking, is it a stretch to think that maybe he was also doing some harder drugs, as one person suggested that their friend sold him drugs?
- [60:39]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, I mean, he was kind of spiraling out, right?
- [60:43]
Mike Ferguson
He was, but he suffered with depression. He was diagnosed, you know, with bipolar disorder. And he wouldn't take his medication.
- [60:51]
Mike Gibson
Yeah.
- [60:52]
Mike Ferguson
So it did seem like he went through cycles. And it could be that at this point, leaving L. A, heading back to Seattle, being very, very unsure whether that was the right move. He was in one of those really low cycles. Add in sleep deprivation, drinking, possibly meth, and I think the possibilities just open up of what could have happened to him. And we haven't talked about it, but there. There obviously is the possibility of foul play. Now, I get it. The detective doesn't believe that, but if he's outside the car and he's wandering around the woods, well, then no sign of struggle at the car. Really doesn't play into whether or not he could have met with foul play somewhere in the woods.
- [61:46]
Mike Gibson
That's true. He could have. It's definitely mysterious, right?
- [61:50]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, it's a big mystery because, you know, we don't know if he's alive, dead. Did he drop off the grid and go start a new life somewhere? Did he decide to end his life? Did he meet with foul play? I mean, there's so many different kinds of things that are on the table that at this point, I don't know that any of them can be crossed off.
- [62:15]
Mike Gibson
I just feel like some accident must have happened.
- [62:17]
Mike Ferguson
Are you thinking, like, accident out in the woods?
- [62:20]
Mike Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [62:21]
Mike Ferguson
That prevented him from getting back and, you know, he succumbed to the elements. And, I mean, that's a possibility.
- [62:28]
Mike Gibson
I mean, when you're big guy, you know, 300 pounds of weight, if you fall, it might be hard to recover from. Plus, if you're so tired, if you haven't slept very long in 36 plus hours, you know, and add, you know, potential alcohol and drugs, you could break a leg. Yeah.
- [62:50]
Mike Ferguson
And just not be able to get back and die out there. I don't. I also don't think you can rule out, like, an accidental overdose possible, because those happen as well.
- [63:03]
Mike Gibson
They do.
- [63:04]
Mike Ferguson
And they just haven't found his body yet, so. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, if they. If he is deceased and they ultimately find his body, most likely they'll be able to determine something from that. Maybe. Yeah, but maybe not. If. If all they find is skeletal remains and there's no marks on any of
- [63:28]
Mike Gibson
the bones, it's a mystery again.
- [63:30]
Mike Ferguson
It could still be mystery.
- [63:32]
Mike Gibson
I just hope that he's alive and one day he reaches out to his family.
- [63:38]
Mike Ferguson
Yeah, well, for the family. Right.
- [63:40]
Grainger Announcer
You.
- [63:41]
Mike Ferguson
You want them to have answers, to just be totally in the dark. Not knowing what happened to your loved one, that's tough. That's really tough. But that's it for our episode on the disappearance of Rico Harris. We got a voicemail, Gibbs. You want to check that out?
- [63:56]
Mike Gibson
Let's hear it.
- [63:58]
Voicemail Caller (Caveman)
Hey, guys, this is Caveman from Roadgregor, Oregon. I called you a while back to give you some information about suppressors. I was just listening to your episode on David Grubbs out of Ashland, and, yeah, it's pretty common around here. That's the south end of the county. I live at the north end of the county. It's pretty common around here that people carry swords. I saw a guy the other day in Rouge, this little town, he had a samurai sword on his back. Back. It's not that uncommon. I don't know why, but, yeah, people like their swords. I actually have a sword myself. I have an Albion bastard sword. Anyway, it's kind of cool, but I don't think I carry it around. Anyway, guys, just giving you some more weapon information about Southern Oregon. This is Caveman. Keep your own time ticking and keep your head on a swivel, guys.
- [64:49]
Mike Ferguson
Bye. All right, Caveman, helping us out with more info. I. I'll be honest with you, Gibbs. I'm 52 years old. Yeah, I've lived in Ohio almost my entire life. I lived in Michigan for about three years. In 52 years, I've never seen anyone walking down the street with a sword.
- [65:09]
Mike Gibson
Me neither.
- [65:10]
Mike Ferguson
So. That is just so foreign to me.
- [65:13]
Mike Gibson
It's very bizarre.
- [65:15]
Mike Ferguson
But me, I've seen people carrying a rifle. Yeah, I've seen that walking down the street.
- [65:21]
Mike Gibson
But not a. Not a sword.
- [65:22]
Mike Ferguson
But not a sword.
- [65:23]
Mike Gibson
But, hey, may the force be with them.
- [65:25]
Mike Ferguson
Exactly.
- [65:26]
Mike Gibson
Yeah. I. I need to come clean on something. I. I used to be a member of the Harlem Earth Dribblers. Harlan County, Kentucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to tour the state of Kentucky, put on basketball shows. I was the point man.
- [65:43]
Mike Ferguson
Is that similar to the point guard?
- [65:45]
Mike Gibson
Yeah, we just called the point man.
- [65:48]
Mike Ferguson
You just keep. Oh, you just keep showing your lack of knowledge of sports over and over. It cracks me up. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
- [66:13]
Mike Gibson
Sam.
- [66:42]
Mike Ferguson
Pluto.
- [66:43]
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- [66:46]
Mike Gibson
We're coming at you with everything we got. This is the mindset.
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- [66:50]
Mike Gibson
This is the mantra.
- [66:51]
Mike Ferguson
Free.
- [66:52]
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