TCATTU Classics: The I-70 Murders

Summary

---

Episode Summary: TCATTU Classics — The I-70 Murders

Podcast: True Crime All The Time Unsolved (PodcastOne)
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Original Air Date: June 15, 2026 (Classic episode from early 2020)
Main Theme:
This episode dives into the haunting, unsolved case of the I-70 Killer, an unidentified serial murderer who targeted small businesses along the I-70 corridor in 1992. Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson piece together the confirmed murders, explore possible links to similar crimes, discuss law enforcement challenges, and speculate about the perpetrator’s motives and methods in a case that continues to baffle investigators.

---

Main Discussion Points & Timeline

Setting the Stage (07:12)

• I-70 Murders – An American True Crime Mystery
  • Murders occurred in spring 1992 across Indiana, Kansas, and Missouri, with 6 confirmed linked victims: mostly young female store clerks killed execution-style with a .22 caliber handgun.
  • Motive unclear: robbery seems secondary to the killings.

Notable Quote:
"This is a case that has no evidence. We didn’t have DNA. We didn’t have fingerprints." – Mike Ferguson (01:31)

---

Key Victims & Crime Details

• Robin Fuldauer – Indianapolis, Indiana (April 8, 1992)

[09:41 – 13:52]

• 26-year-old store manager, covering for a sick employee at Payless Shoe Source.
• Killed execution-style, possible looting of the store post-murder before the body was officially reported.
• Eyewitness: White male, medium build, green coat, duffel bag.
• Motive: ~$90 stolen from register.

"To kill somebody execution style for basically less than $90. Why?"
— Mike Gibson (13:03)

---

• Patricia Majors & Patricia Smith – Wichita, Kansas (April 11, 1992)

[15:03 – 22:27]

• Bridal store owner & assistant, both shot in the back of the head.
• Would-be customer (cummerbund pickup) encounters the killer, escapes after being told to go to the back room.
• The survivor-encounter yields the first composite sketch.
• Killer left some cash behind.

"He did so, it seemed like without missing a beat. This is what I do."
— Mike Gibson (16:42)

---

• Michael McCown – Terre Haute, Indiana (April 27, 1992)

[28:12 – 33:37]

• Only male victim; long brown hair possibly led killer to mistake him for a female.
• Shot while stocking shelves at mother’s ceramic shop.
• Money left behind, wallet missing.

"The police theorized that the killer walked in... saw the long braided ponytail... and shot the victim immediately.”
— Mike Ferguson (31:03)

---

• Nancy Kitzmiller – St. Charles, Missouri (May 4, 1992)

[33:52 – 39:52]

• 24-year-old manager at Boot Village, western wear shop.
• Forced to back office, shot with .22 caliber.
• Entire register emptied this time.
• Composite sketch generated from eyewitness; Nancy was a well-liked, soccer-playing cowgirl.

“Some dumbass comes into a store, takes your life for nothing, ends all of her dreams.”
— Mike Gibson (39:27)

---

• Sarah Blessing – Raytown, Missouri (May 7, 1992)

[40:02 – 47:39]

• 37-year-old reflexologist at Store of Many Colors.
• Witness sees killer loitering beforehand, calmly leaves after the shooting.
• Again, only some money is taken.
• Sarah’s story underscores randomness and senselessness of the crimes.

"I can't figure out what it means... the killer doesn't always take all the money in the register.”
— Mike Ferguson (45:27)

---

Patterns, Law Enforcement Challenges, and Investigative Frustrations

Similarities Noted (48:20 – 50:11)

• All occurred in small specialty shops, typically with a single employee (female, petite, brunette).
• Nearly all money left behind, suggesting murder (not robbery) as primary motive.
• Same .22 caliber, copper-clad lead ammo used.
• Crimes happened during non-peak hours.

Investigation Hurdles (50:11 – 54:03)

• Jurisdictional barriers: Agencies in different states worked cases as isolated murders.
• Not until months later did St. Charles detectives connect cases through interviews with neighboring law enforcement.
• Sketches shared too late and not widely enough initially to be effective, due to killer’s mobility.

Long-Range Connections: Texas Murders (54:03 – 57:37)

• Two highly similar murders in Texas in 1993 (shots to the back of the head, .22 caliber) and a third attempt that left the victim, Vicki Webb, alive after her vertebrae stopped the bullet.
• Ballistics confirm a different .22 gun from I-70, but victim descriptions matched.

"To keep your wits about you after you’ve just been shot, to be able to process information and think, okay, my best course of action is to play dead… Unbelievable."
— Mike Ferguson on Vicki Webb (55:52)

---

Theories and Final Thoughts

Coverage & Community Response

[59:12 – 63:18]

• Media coverage (Inside Edition, Unsolved Mysteries, America's Most Wanted) generated overwhelmed law enforcement with tips.
• Multi-state task force formed; database amassed 70,000 names.

Speculation: Who Was the I-70 Killer?

• Killer traversed ~1,700 miles in 29 days; possible trucker, drifter, or traveling salesman.
• Possible explanations for killer’s abrupt disappearance: death, incarceration, move, or luck.
• Lack of physical evidence (no DNA, no prints) leaves law enforcement with few options but to hope for a witness or confession.

“The problem with identifying this killer is... there really is very little in the way of physical evidence, especially when you talk about DNA.”
— Mike Ferguson (61:16)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

The Human Toll

• "This killer took everything away from her and her family and all the victims prior to that — ruined everybody’s lives over nothing."
  — Mike Gibson (40:02)

On Survivor’s Guilt

• "I think you’re also going to feel some luck as well. It’s going to be a mixture."
  — Mike Ferguson (14:29), discussing survivor’s guilt of sick employee.

The Utility of Composite Sketches

• “If he’s from somewhere else, and just keeps traveling the I-70 corridor… that composite sketch, I think, loses some of its effectiveness.”
  — Mike Ferguson (22:50)

On Law Enforcement Communication Barriers

• “These agencies are not talking to each other... these are individual cases that they’re like, unsolved murder.”
  — Mike Gibson (23:26)

---

Concluding Thoughts & Unresolved Questions

• The I-70 case remains unsolved; the killer’s identity and motives are still shrouded in mystery.
• Authorities believe future breakthroughs are possible only if new witnesses come forward or unexpected forensic evidence emerges.
• The hosts reflect on the sorrow and randomness of the case, noting how these killings shattered families for “nothing.”

---

Timestamps: Key Segments

• 07:18: Start of the I-70 Murders story
• 09:41: First murder details (Robin Fuldauer)
• 15:03: Wichita double homicide (Patricia Majors & Smith)
• 28:12: Terre Haute killing (Michael McCown)
• 33:52: St. Charles killing (Nancy Kitzmiller)
• 40:02: Raytown killing (Sarah Blessing)
• 48:20: Patterns recap
• 50:11: Law enforcement starts seeing connections
• 54:01: Texas similarities and survivor account
• 59:12: Scale of investigation and closing thoughts

---

For New Listeners:

This episode is an in-depth retelling of the I-70 Killer’s spree. Ferguson and Gibson blend serious, detailed case analysis with their trademark banter and empathy for victims and survivors. Their conversation is inviting even for those new to the case, providing:

• Chronological coverage of each crime
• Thoughtful discussion of survivor psychology and police challenges
• Great care in humanizing the victims and addressing the long shadow these murders cast over the families.

---

If you have information related to the I-70 Killings, law enforcement encourages you to contact the multi-state task force or your local authorities.

---

Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

This Father's Day at Lowe's, we have extra big deals for a very limited time so you can get dad the gift he's been wishing for. Get a free select Craftsman dewalt or Cobalt battery when you buy a select combo kit. Plus save $90 on a Kobalt 24 volt battery, string trimmer and leaf blower combo kit. Now $129. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's ballot through 615 while supplies last selection varies by location.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressives Name youe Price Tool for years. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough. Hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy. Or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find the coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law

[Mike Ferguson]

Are you really buying a car online

[Mike Gibson]

on autotrader right now?

[Advertisement Announcer]

Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered or pick it up?

[Mike Ferguson]

I think kid is walking up the slide.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Really? Autotrader? Buy your car online? Really?

[Mike Ferguson]

This guy was as cold and calculated as they come. Maybe we weren't gonna get it solved. It was like the epitome of innocence that had been preyed upon. This is a case that has no evidence. We didn't have DNA. We didn't have fingerprints.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Step inside the court of law with the new true crime podcast American justice,

[Mike Gibson]

we realized we have four men who answered the same ad for a job on a farm. My brother Ralph went to interview and he was never seen.

[Advertisement Announcer]

A podcast that explores impactful crimes and reveals how our justice system works.

[Mike Gibson]

You have to consider that there are more possibilities than one and sometimes how it doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

We have to find whoever this monster

[Advertisement Announcer]

is, go in depth into chilling cases and their conclusions. In this new true crime series, you just have a pit in your stomach thinking, how many people are we going to find? New episodes of American justice are available every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hey everyone, this is Fergie. I'm on vacation in Jamaica. My daughter's getting married. Gibby's on vacation in Greece. Probably eating a bunch of meat and olives, cheese, you know, the Mediterranean diet, I guess. But anyway, we wanted to make sure everybody had stuff to listen to. So we have a Patreon episode out right now on TCAT and we're playing a classic unsolved episode on the i70 killer all the way back from early 2020. So enjoy and we'll talk to you next week. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 146 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you, man?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm good, man. About you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You and I had some pizza tonight before we recorded. Yeah, it's kind of our ritual. And it's not always pizza, but we usually sit down and break bread.

[Mike Gibson]

We.

[Mike Ferguson]

We broke pizza crust or break crust. And then we walk down into the studio. Sometimes there's strange stomach noises, but we work through that.

[Mike Gibson]

They're definitely always strange stomach noises.

[Mike Ferguson]

I will say this right. I've been trying to exercise. That's my New Year's resolution. Yeah, it happens to be my New Year's resolution every year.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Does not always work out, but I played basketball at the Y with my daughter's boyfriend and his friends.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

These are 18, 19 year old kids. Yeah, I played twice. I played last night. Cannot walk today. Couldn't walk after the last one either. Yeah, but recovered just enough to play again. It's been rough.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, hopefully this recovery is a little faster than last.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's what I'm hoping.

[Mike Gibson]

So when you play again, we'll just. Then you get yourself up to a good spot and then you can jump on that really fancy bicycle that you have.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is the plan. My wife's gotten us eaten a little healthier and so we're working on it.

[Mike Gibson]

I will say she. She is good about. Once she decides that you guys are gonna eat healthy, she keeps you pretty strict.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, first of all, she orders the groceries so there won't be anything in the house that constitutes a cheat. Which makes me irritable because sometimes I just need a chip, man. She'd be like, I need a Cheeto.

[Mike Gibson]

Check on my jacket when I come in. Make sure I'm not like sneaking stuff down here to you.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're lucky that's all she's checking.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. We have some new Patreon supporters, so let's give some shout outs. We had Zach Peacock.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Zach.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jamie Simler.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey. She's similar to somebody Jenny says. Hey, Jenny.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tara Hughes.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Tara?

[Mike Ferguson]

Kimberly Micha. Don.

[Mike Gibson]

Micha Don.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's what I'm going with.

[Mike Gibson]

It's. I gotta go with it, too.

[Listener/Caller]

Mark Roth.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Mark.

[Mike Ferguson]

Bonnie Dakins.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Bonnie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Katya Sommervald.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Kat Cha.

[Mike Ferguson]

Stacy Smith.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Stacy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jessica Harris.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Jessica?

[Mike Ferguson]

Carl. Cabanas.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey. Oh, cabanas.

[Mike Ferguson]

Abby Gray.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Abby?

[Mike Ferguson]

Terry Cameron.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Terry.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michelle. Ozuna.

[Mike Gibson]

Ozuna.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sammy Joe.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Sammy Joe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Andrea Walden.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Andrea.

[Mike Ferguson]

Brittany. Is Kierdo.

[Mike Gibson]

Is Kiddardo.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, but that's fun to say. Yes. Rachel.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Rachel.

[Mike Ferguson]

Daniel Carbone.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Daniel?

[Mike Ferguson]

Snucky.

[Mike Gibson]

Snucky.

[Mike Ferguson]

Angela Linnell.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Angela.

[Mike Ferguson]

Anna. Cecilia.

[Mike Gibson]

How you doing, Anna?

[Mike Ferguson]

Cameron.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, Cameron?

[Mike Ferguson]

And Lauren Wilson.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, Lauren.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, big shout out for that new Patreon support. And then if we go back into the vault. Gibbs.

[Mike Gibson]

Let's go on back.

[Mike Ferguson]

This week we selected Lisa Moss.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Lisa Moss.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, longtime supporter. We really appreciate all the new and continued Patreon support we get. We had some PayPal support as well. We had Jessica Metz.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Jessica.

[Mike Ferguson]

Daniel. Javier.

[Mike Gibson]

Javier.

[Mike Ferguson]

Julie Shands.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Julie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michelle Slocum.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Michelle.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Olivia.

[Mike Gibson]

English hey, Olivia.

[Mike Ferguson]

So big thanks to all those folks as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this week's episode of True Crime? All the Time Unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I'm excited, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

We are talking about the 1992 i70 killings. And I think, Gibbs, there have been a lot of killings, a lot of murders along the I70 corridor.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

But this is a very specific set of murders that we're talking about. Some have attributed them to a single serial killer. Some people believe that some of them were committed by the same person. Others were committed by other people. We'll go through all of that. But this case is definitely about a serial killer. There's no doubt about that. There's a serial killer that terrorized the Midwest in 1992 by killing six store clerks that worked near the I 70 interstate in Indiana, Kansas and Missouri. Those six murders they're able to put together.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's going to be some others that we talk about that people believe. Okay. May or may not be connected to those six.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now, I think most Americans know, but for those in Our audience that are outside of the U.S. i 70 stretches from Maryland in the east to Utah in the west.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a long highway.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. It's the longest highway running east west in the United States.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And it makes sense when you hear about, like you said, there's a lot of murders that have happened off of this highway. There's a lot of murders happen off a lot of highways because it's easy to get off the highway, do what you want and then get back on and move on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and for that exact same reason, there's a lot of robberies. Right. That happen at institutions that are located just off the highway because much easier to make a getaway when you're jumping on the highway. You can go fast, get out.

[Mike Gibson]

Accessibility, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

And speaking of murders on I 70, you and I have talked about a number of them on true crime all the time. Some of the murders we've talked about in Indiana, Ohio, I mean, you live pretty close to I 70. I mean, something we're very familiar with.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

The terror began on April 8, 1992 in the city of Indianapolis, Indiana. The killer walked into the Payless Shoe Source store on Pendleton Pike. That day the store manager, 26 year old Robin Fuldauer, was working and it's believed that she greeted the man around 1:30pm in the store. This man eventually pulled a gun on her and forced her to the back storage room area. Once the killer had Robin back there, he shot her execution style, twice with a.22 caliber handgun in the back of the head. Then he fled out the back door. This was most likely just prior to 2:00pm that's horrible. But in the aftermath of her death, Gibbs, there's some strange things that happen.

[Mike Gibson]

There really was.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because it's believed that Robin's body was most likely discovered before it was first reported.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because when police got there, it appeared as though people had come in, they found the door open, they walked in and they looted things from the store,

[Mike Gibson]

which is terrible, man. You would come into the store, manager's not there, no one's around. So you went ahead and took some items and you know, eventually somebody had to wander back to the back and probably saw her laying there and said, you know what, I can't call this in, I'm out of here. Grabbed some shoes and went on their way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Because I can't explain what I was doing or if I do that, I have to wait around for police and I'm not going to be able to take the things I want.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

So eventually Somebody did come in, find Robin and call the police. And that happened when an employee from the Speedway gas station next door walked into the store to say hi to Robin, but she didn't see her. But what she did see was the cash register was open, there was no money inside. So this woman quickly walked out and called police. Police arrived and they found Robin dead in the back of the store. Now, it was later discovered, Gibbs, by police, that Robin wasn't even supposed to work that day.

[Mike Gibson]

Luck of the draw, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, this happens when you are the manager of a retail store. And I can speak to it firsthand.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't have that many employees in a smaller type of store. And when the employee that is scheduled to work calls off, naturally you're going to call around and try to find somebody else to cover it. But if nobody else can, you know who's going to cover that shift?

[Mike Gibson]

That'd be you.

[Mike Ferguson]

You?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

As the store manager, I did it many, many times. And that's what happened. One of Robin's employees called off, and she was forced to go in to cover the shift. Robin was known as a very hard worker, extremely smart, super sweet to everyone that knew her. She loved to play tennis with friends and family. She loved boating, and she especially loved sailing. Police at the time were stumped over this senseless murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, to kill somebody execution style for basically less than $90. Why?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's what they figured out. That $90 or less was taken from the register. And you're at a Payless shoe store. Yeah, there's not going to be a ton of money in there.

[Mike Gibson]

Just doesn't make any sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, there were some eyewitnesses that claimed to have seen a man flee out the back of the store. They said he was white, had a medium build, and was wearing a green coat and carrying a small duffel bag. So obviously, Gibbs, this was a shock to the community. It was a shock to her family. Robin's service was held by her rabbi about a week after her death.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You know, you wonder, the person that unfortunately, but fortunately was sick that day, how do they feel about it? Because that could have been them. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think there's any doubt that there would be guilt there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, did they do anything wrong?

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. But I don't think that stops the guilt. Now. How long it lasts, I don't know. But you're going to carry some amount of guilt with you for some period of time.

[Mike Gibson]

And I think you would also, in your back of your mind, think that could have been me. And how lucky am I that it wasn't me?

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a great point. I think you're also going to feel some luck as well. It's going to be a mixture.

[Mike Gibson]

Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, you hear that with survivors of some of the plane crashes on 9 11. Yeah, there were people that were supposed to be on some of those planes that for one reason or another didn't make the flight.

[Mike Gibson]

It's like happy guilt.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they're, they're racked with guilt for what happened, but count themselves extremely lucky that they didn't make that flight.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think you find it even more when somebody is supposed to do something, but they let somebody else do it instead and that person ends up dying. You know, I can't think of a specific story around that, but I know that happens as well. It was just three days later on April 11th, about 600 miles west of Indianapolis. So now we're in Wichita, Kansas. 32 year old Patricia Majors was working in her bridal store known as Le Bride to Elegance. With her was her assistant, 23 year old Patricia Smith. Patricia Majors, I think a lot of people called her Trish. I think she went by Trish a lot of the time. Typically closed up her store at 6pm but earlier that day there was a customer who needed a cummerbund but couldn't pick it up until after 6. So Trish agreed to wait for him, would keep the store open a little bit later so that he could stop by. It was after 6pm That a man came into the store, pulled a gun on Trish and forced her to the back of the store. When they got back there, they found Patricia Smith, the assistant. She was in the back of the store. So this gunman made both women lie down face first and then just walked up and shot them both point blank in the back of the head twice with a.22 caliber handgun.

[Mike Gibson]

And he did so it seemed like without missing a beat, just this is

[Mike Ferguson]

what I do, what's very quick. It's very, you know, there's no messing around.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

With these murders. The way that I took it was as soon as these women got on the ground, there's no talking, there's no long drawn out anything. No, the shots were fired and they were dead.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, there's no sexual assault, nothing like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

So the killer headed to the front of the store, he was going to exit. But just then the customer who was supposed to drop by to pick up his cummerbund walked into the store. And Gibbs, this had to have been a shock for the customer. He is seeing a man holding a handgun trying to exit the store.

[Mike Gibson]

Be a little unnerving.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. The guy said that this man looked unkept. He had, you know, stubble. He was wearing a short brown jacket. It sounds like he just wasn't really taking care of himself. He wasn't a daily groomer, let's put it that way.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

This guy said that the killer just stared at him. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Almost as if he was making a

[Mike Ferguson]

decision, you know, what do I do?

[Mike Gibson]

What I do? And he does ask the customer to go back to the back room with him. But the customer is like, no. They get in a little argument, back and forth, a little verbal, quick, quick verbal attack. And the customer, he runs out of the store. I mean, smart, Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is very smart because you know exactly what would have happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

If that customer goes to the back room, which. Why would you go in the back room? Anyway? This person obviously does not work at the store, but if he were to have gone, you know, he would have met the same fate as Trish and Patricia.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

No doubt about it. So he had to be a little bit in shock. He also had to have been a little bit scared. I think both of those would have been natural. He also had to have known that there's a good chance that something very bad happened to the people in that store.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why is a guy walking out of the store with a handgun unless something has happened? But being a little cautious, he waited just a little bit to call police. Maybe waited an hour. Now, some people might think of that and say, well, why would you wait so long? Others would say, man, I don't know what I would do in that position. I would be scared to death.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it's easy for me to say. I probably just grab my phone and call right away, you know, but you gotta remember, 92 people didn't have a lot of cell phones.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know for a fact I did not have a cell phone in 1992.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And then at that point, even if you wanted to pick up a payphone somewhere, you weren't going to do it nearby because you think that guys might be hunting you down. So you're going to go where you need to get yourself safe first and then try to make a call. Maybe he just, like you said, shock, needed to calm down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I just. I'm not going to give this guy a hard time.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because I don't honestly know what I would have done in his shoes.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Speaking to what you just said, I think personal safety.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Would have to be at the forefront of your mind, because is this guy coming after me? I'm hiding behind a car, under a car. I don't know. I'm going to give it some time to let this guy make sure he's cleared out. But the customer does ultimately call police. They arrived around 7:30pm and they found Patricia Majors dead in a large pool of blood. Next to her, they found her assistant, Patricia Smith. She was also laying in a pool of her own blood. But she was still alive. Barely. But alive. Yeah. So they rushed her to the hospital, but unfortunately, she died a few minutes after arriving at the hospital. And there again, Gibbs, I think that's where some people could make an argument that, you know, could Patricia Smith have been saved if the customer makes the call 45 minutes earlier?

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe. Maybe.

[Mike Ferguson]

We don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

We're not surgeons. We don't know what kind of wounds she had to her head.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think it's tough to really bag on this guy for waiting a little bit to make the call. I really do. He didn't do anything wrong. No, he didn't. He wasn't a part of the robbery, the. The murder. So to second guess him is. Is really tough.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, no, I think he. He needed to do what he needed to do for himself, which was be safe.

[Mike Ferguson]

So the police are investigating, and they found that the killer took some cash from the store register, but for some reason, didn't take all of it. And to me, this is a really strange fact, but it's something we're going to see in some of these murders. So we mentioned that the customer coming into the store said this guy was not Mr. Hygiene. He later gave a detailed description to police. He said it was a white male, and he was able to provide enough details of this guy's face for the police to complete a composite sketch. Police released a sketch to the public, but nothing came out of it.

[Mike Gibson]

And even today, you can see those sketches out online.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they're out there. They're out there. But here's the thing. If you have somebody that is traveling the distance that we think this guy is traveling, how much good does a composite sketch really do? If this guy was local to the Wichita, Kansas area? Okay, they're showing that on the Wichita News.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Somebody might recognize him. But if he's from somewhere else, and he just keeps traveling the I70 corridor, which, like we said, is a very long stretch of road, that composite sketch, I think, loses some of its effectiveness.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. It weakens it.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not that it's a bad thing to have. I just don't know if it's as powerful as it would be if the killer was centrally located in one area.

[Mike Gibson]

And that's the thing too. These cases are, I mean, just talk about two separate murders 600 and some miles apart.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, these agencies currently are not talking to each other. Right. So whatever happened in Indianapolis, they don't know happened over here and vice versa. Right. Well, these are individual cases that they're like unsolved murder.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because at this point in time. Right. When the second, after the second murder occurs, it's not like magically all of a sudden, they link the two together.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's not going to happen, folks. Have I ever told you how much I love summer? But it definitely changes the way I get dressed. Not just that I'm wearing lighter clothing. It definitely makes me want pieces that feel lighter and more breathable, but I also want things that are easy to put together but still make me look put together. And that's why I keep coming back to Quints. They focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Quint carries an unbelievable amount of well made basics, but without all the luxury markup. And that's because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Think Quint's European linen pants and shirts. Starting at just $34. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And they go way beyond clothing. They have upholstered sofas, ceramic cookware, premium bedding. You got to check out their site. My favorite is their activewear flow knit line. I wear their shorts, their joggers, their tops. It's all amazing at an incredible price. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com truecrime for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com/TrueCrime for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com TrueCrime. You know, a lot of people are using online therapy now, but finding a therapist who actually takes your insurance, that's where most online therapy platforms fall short. But Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. And think about that. You're getting real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. There's no Wait lists, no frustrating back and forth. When you have rula, they make it easy to find a mental health provider who's accepting new patients. And appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. Plus, they stick it out with you throughout your journey. Rula checks in with you to make sure your care is helping you move forward. Go to rula.comtcatu to get started today. That's R U L A.comtkatu for quality therapy that's covered by insurance. Thousands of people are already using RULA to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.comtcatu to get started. That's R U L A.comtcatu you deserve mental healthcare that works with you, not against your budget. Now, we don't have a ton of information on either of these victims. We know that both Patricia's were married. Patricia Smith, the assistant at the store, had only been married for nine months. Trish Majors, who was older obviously, than Patricia smith. She was 32 years old. She had been married longer. The medical examiner who had the task of processing the bodies happened to be a very close friend of Trish Major.

[Mike Gibson]

Really close.

[Mike Ferguson]

Very close. So close, in fact, that he actually gave her away at her wedding.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't do that unless you're very, very good friends.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. How tough would that have to be?

[Mike Ferguson]

So this man's name was Dr. William Eckert, and he's pretty well known in true crime circles. He was the medical examiner involved with the BTK murders. But you asked the question, Gibbs. How tough? Yeah, you know, I think a medical examiner's job tough on its own. I mean, day in, day out, you are seeing tragic deaths. Or they're not all tragic, but you're examining dead bodies. But I would think for the most part, you don't know these people.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

It doesn't make what happened to them any less tragic if there was foul play or whatever. But you don't have a connection to the person. Well, now this guy has a very close connection with the victim lying on his table.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's almost like it's his daughter.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know how you do it. You would think they would have something in place for someone else to be able to come in and do that.

[Mike Gibson]

Calling the next door county guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Almost like it's a conflict of interest. Yeah, I don't know if that's the right word to use, but maybe because

[Mike Gibson]

they weren't blood relative. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe didn't qualify as a Conflict of interest. The families had services for both women. They were laid to rest. But then you have the police in their investigation, Gibbs. They don't have anything to go on. Not much. Let's say they know that both women were shot with a.22 caliber handgun. They have the description given to them by the customer. That's what they have. And like we mentioned, they don't have a clue that the previous murder is connected in any way to their murder. Matter of fact, I'm sure they didn't know anything about it. It wasn't even on their radar. The next murder occurred on April 27, 600 miles back east in Terre Haute, Indiana, which is also about 70 miles southwest of the Indianapolis murder site. 40 year old Michael McCown was working at his mom's store. The store was called Sylvia's Ceramic Shop. And Michael was one of those guys that everyone loved, Gibbs. He was easygoing, he was carefree.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, his name was Michael. Well, so you know, he had, he

[Mike Ferguson]

had to have been right with a name like that. But everybody knew him, said these things about him. He was just a very well liked individual. But on this day, he was stalking the store for his mom when a man walked in. And this is where the police theorized that Michael was on his knees stocking some shelves with ceramic houses. He would have had his back to the killer as the killer walked in. The thing about Michael was that he had long brown hair pulled back into a braided ponytail. So the police theorized that the killer walked into a ceramic shop which he would have thought was owned by a female. Most likely would have thought, Gibbs, that the people that worked there were female.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, the sign did say Sylvia's.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. It was also a very small store.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which normally you would think there would only probably be one person working at any one time in a store like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, definitely a more controlled environment.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think this is something that this killer was looking for.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it seemed like he was attracted to specialty stores, not big box style stores. And of course, I mean, up to this point, I mean, it does seem like he targeted female victims.

[Mike Ferguson]

And to that point, I think he was specifically looking for stores where he believed a female would be working. So Michael is down stocking these shelves. And the police believe that the killer walked in around 3:30pm saw the long braided ponytail from behind that Michael was wearing, and figured it was a female, most likely Sylvia, since it's Sylvia's Ceramic Shop, and shot the victim immediately once in the head with a.22 caliber handgun from behind. Then the killer fled the scene. But here again, it doesn't seem as though robbery was the motive.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean, There was still $50 left in the register, $15 inside Michael's pocket. So if you were going to rob the place, why would you leave any of that behind?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, especially the register.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, easy grab.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't understand a killer who is going to open the register, take some money. It doesn't take that long to take all the money out of the register.

[Mike Gibson]

If you're trying to make it look like a robbery, then you'd want to take it all. Not like, oh, let me take part of it. I mean, Michael's wallet was missing, but they don't know if the killer took the wallet or not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michael's body was found around 4.30pm by a customer who immediately called the police. And again, we don't have a ton of info on Michael. He was known to have been a musician and really a pretty good bass player and singer. He played nightclubs across a few states in the Midwest, and he managed some clubs as well. He moved back home and took over his mom's store. I think, Gibbs, because he just wanted to kind of slow down a little bit.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Live more of a carefree life, keep to himself. You know, being on the road, traveling, playing gigs. Not that I know from experience, but. Can't be the easiest thing in the world.

[Listener/Caller]

No.

[Mike Gibson]

I think some days you just want to be able to know where you're going to be every night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michael was survived by his mother, Sylvia. But again, Gibbs, I think this is very similar to the last murder. Right. Police had even less leads, less to go on.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

With this murder. And they had no idea that any of the three murders that had now been committed were connected? No.

[Mike Gibson]

Right now it just looks like random murders in each of these towns.

[Mike Ferguson]

The next murder occurred just seven days after Michael's death. It was on May 4th. And this time it was back west in the town of St. Charles, Missouri. This is about 180 miles west of Terre Haute. The Boot Village store in the Bogey Hill shopping plaza had opened at noon. This was a western wear place, Gibbs. A place you went to get your hats, your boots, your cowboy belt buckles.

[Mike Gibson]

I guess it was a pretty nice store. I guess wall to wall boots had this. The hard to find red boots that a lot of women like to get. I know you like western stores.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do.

[Mike Gibson]

You got a lot of boots and hats and buckles.

[Mike Ferguson]

No doubt about it. Working that day was the store manager 24 year old Nancy Kitzmiller. And it was sometime before 2:30pm that the killer entered the store, forced Nancy to the back office and shot her in the back of the head, execution style with a.22 caliber handgun. So obviously, Gibbs, we're seeing some similarities here in these murders. The biggest one that jumps out at me is the.22 caliber.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

That has been the same caliber used in all of the murders that we've talked about. Yeah, the execution style shots to the back of the head. Now this time, the killer took all of the money from the cash register. I don't know what you make of that. Maybe there wasn't that much. They hadn't been open that long.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe he needed more money.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's really no way to quantify what that means.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I also find it interesting. Outside of Michael, he made all the victims go back to the back of the store. Right. He got Michael while he was down on his knees from behind.

[Mike Ferguson]

That was the one, the one difference in how the victims were killed in the cases that we've talked about so far. Nancy's body was discovered by customer around 2:30pm the customer called police. During the police investigation, they discovered a woman who just happened to walk out of the store next door to Boot Village and she saw a man inside the store. This had to have been sometime before 2:30 when Nancy's body was discovered by the customer. And Gibbs, this woman was able to give a pretty detailed description of the person that she saw to police and she helped them develop a composite sketch. In researching Nancy Kitzmiller, Gibbs, I think it was pretty obvious that this was a person that made friends very easily. She took to people right away. It was said that she could make you feel like you had been friends forever. Yeah, within like 10 minutes.

[Mike Gibson]

We all know somebody like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

You know?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Just warm, caring, extremely friendly. Nancy grew up in Oklahoma. And then when she was about 10, she moved to nearby St. Charles, Missouri with her dad, mom and her younger sister Laura. Nancy was a smart kid. She loved to read and she loved to play soccer. And she was actually very talented at soccer. She was so good at soccer. She played all through high school, and then she actually played at Oklahoma State University.

[Mike Gibson]

That's impressive.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I mean, there's a lot of people that play high school sports.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

A much smaller percentage get to play in college.

[Mike Gibson]

It's hard to get to that next level.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. You have to be extremely talented. Nancy graduated with a degree in geography from osu. But in everything you read about her one thing really stands out. Nancy was a cowgirl at heart, through and through, man. She wore cowboy boots every day with jeans and a big silver belt buckle that screams cowgirl. Yeah, yeah. She loved driving around in her Chevy S10 4x4, man.

[Mike Gibson]

I remember Chevy S10s. I love those little S trucks.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do you?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

See, I always like the. The Silverados. I wanted one just a little bit bigger.

[Mike Gibson]

Did you? Yeah, I had a step side.

[Mike Ferguson]

I always thought the S10s were just a little small for me, being a big guy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but they were cute, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they were cute.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, I didn't say for me.

[Mike Ferguson]

You are real, y'.

[Listener/Caller]

All.

[Mike Ferguson]

You did not say it was for you either. But that's what Nancy had. And she probably looked great in it, right? Driving around a Chevy S10 4x4, all decked out in her western attire. Her family decided to bury her in her western clothing. Yeah. Including her favorite boots.

[Mike Gibson]

That's when you know somebody really loves being a cowgirl, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a fad for her. Right. This wasn't an urban cowboy situation. She lived it day in and day out.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

But Nancy had big dreams. You know, I mentioned that. She graduated with a degree in geography. She had plans to work on government mapping programs. She was only 24 years old. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Some dumbass comes into a store, takes your life for nothing, ends all of

[Mike Ferguson]

her dreams and, you know, severs that relationship with her family and essentially takes her away. Yeah. You know, so that her family will never know what she would have become. They have 24 years worth of memories. Right. That's what they have.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To live with. What they missed out on was the next however many chapters of her life. Yeah, you know, marriages, kids, jobs.

[Mike Gibson]

This killer took everything away from her and her family and all the victims prior to that ruined everybody's lives over nothing.

[Mike Ferguson]

The next murder occurred just three days later, after Nancy was killed. This was on May 7th in a new store that had just opened called the Store of Many Colors. It occurred in the city of Raytown, Missouri, which is a suburb of Kansas City.

[Mike Gibson]

And.

[Mike Ferguson]

And about 220 miles south of St. Charles. The store of Many Colors sold items such as health foods, jewelry, books. It's kind of a. What would you call it, Gibbs? And Like a new age, new wave, alternative, alternative medicine, health food type place.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. They even did some reflexology. And I know you like reflexology, and

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you don't even know what that is.

[Mike Gibson]

It's called reflexology.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're listening. To this podcast, so I know you have a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. They make it super simple. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with coverage options tailored to your choices. Plus you'll see which discounts you may qualify for, like the online quote discount or savings for paying in full. In fact, 99% of Progressive Auto customers earn at least one discount. See if you could save when you switch to Progressive. You'll feel good about making a savvy choice. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little extra cash back Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customer survey who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Finding the one can feel impossible. And in today's world, it's even harder. False profiles, Inaccurate pictures, Incompatibilities Ghosting on dates. Is this sounding familiar? But if you're ready to make your move to a new place, it doesn't have to feel like dating. All it takes is a simple search on apartments.com to find your perfect match. Whether you're looking for a three bedroom condo downtown, a two bedroom duplex in a quiet neighborhood, a cozy studio in a walkable city, or even a single family home in a cul de sac, you can find a place that checks all the right boxes. So whatever stage of life you're in, settle down in your perfect home. By using apartments.com, no more swiping or awkward first dates. Make it easier to get a place that gets you visit apartments.com, the place

[Mike Ferguson]

to find a place 37 year old Sarah Blessing was working that day. Sarah was a reflexologist and she knew how to manipulate feet to relieve pain in the body.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you need a reflexologist.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do. I need one right now and I

[Mike Gibson]

will not be doing that.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, the thing is Gibbs, this was Sarah's very first week at the store and on this day she was working alone next door to the store of many colors. There was a video rental store. And inside the store clerk of the video rental store, he saw a white man that he thought was in his mid-30s, medium height, with a gray sports jacket, just kind of walking around the shopping center. Loitering I guess you would call it. He really wasn't doing much of anything. Yeah, but just kind of scoping. Well, he could have been doing that. And then sometime later, the clerk at the video rental store heard a loud pop. He thought it could have been a gunshot. He wasn't sure. But he walked outside, and this is when he saw the man who was just lingering around the parking lot Coming out of the store of many colors. And this guy later told police that the man he saw appeared to be calm. It wasn't like he, you know, was concerned. He wasn't running.

[Mike Gibson]

No, Just casually walked away.

[Mike Ferguson]

So the video clerk walked into Sarah's store to find her lying face down in a puddle of blood. She had been shot once in the back of her head, execution style. And again, the killer took some money from the cash register. But not all of it.

[Mike Gibson]

So bizarre. To me, it's still, after every time we talk about each one of these

[Mike Ferguson]

individual cases, why it means something. The problem is, I can't figure out what it means because it doesn't seem as though the killer raced out of the store. Right. This video clerk said he appeared calm. The customer at the bridal shop didn't say that this man was running.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

So it doesn't seem as though it's a time thing, you know? And again, like I said, it doesn't take that much time to take the rest of the money out of the cash register. It's not like you're breaking into a safe with a stethoscope.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And. And listening for the clicks and trying to crack a safe.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's grab and go. I mean, it's just. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Again, I think it's part of what makes this case so mysterious. So, eventually, police determined that Sarah was shot with a.22 caliber weapon.

[Mike Gibson]

So again, we got the similarity. The.22 caliber handgun.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the one thing we haven't talked about yet is the caliber. I find that to be a very strange caliber weapon of choice. Yeah, there are much better calibers. Now, obviously, at such a close range, this.22 was lethal. Yeah, because many of these victims were shot only once and killed. So.22 caliber is very lethal. But there are much more lethal calibers to choose from.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe because it was quieter.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is quieter. There's no doubt about that.

[Mike Gibson]

Easier to conceal, but not that he was really trying to conceal much, I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's a big factor, but it is quieter. You're right about that. But it's not quiet to the point that nobody's going to hear it.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

It might be quieter than a 9 millimeter, but it's still loud enough that somebody's going to recognize that you just fired a gun. Yeah, I just find it a strange choice. Much in the same way that I find it strange that the killer doesn't always take all the money in the register. So, in talking about Sarah, Sarah Blessing had been married to her second husband for eight years, and she had two children from her previous marriage. She loved her family. She and her husband chose Raytown because it was one of the nicest suburbs in which to raise kids.

[Mike Gibson]

And the average house price back then in 1992 was $250,000. So pretty healthy.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is very healthy. In 1992, Sarah was buried a week after she was killed. During her service, her family released some white doves.

[Mike Gibson]

That's pretty cool. And I think probably has some meaning behind it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know what it was, but I'm sure it meant something to them. And maybe something to Sarah as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, Gibbs, let's recap. We have six victims, and five of the six were young, petite, brunette women. One of the victims was a man, but as we mentioned, the police felt that the killer most likely thought that Michael was a woman due to the long braided ponytail. The killer took some of the money from these crime scenes, but not all of it. He shot his victims in the back of the head, execution style, and always with a.22 caliber weapon. But up to this point, these were still individual cases.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, right. Now these are all standalone with different agencies working on them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and none of the individual agencies are having any luck. Right. Solving their murder cases. It was a few months after the murder of Nancy Kitzmiller that the detective on that case began reaching out to other law enforcement agencies. And it was really at this point when the detectives started talking to police from these other areas that they began to put together the fact that these similar unsolved murders were most likely the work of the same killer. And we talked about it. Right? Same M.O. same caliber weapon, similar type of victims. Robbery didn't appear to be the motive for the murders. It was really viewed, Gibbs, as most likely a way for the killer to try to throw off the investigation. Yeah, maybe to make them believe it was a robbery that had gone wrong. But police, I think, pretty quickly figured out that wasn't the case. This was about murder. And the taking of some money from the register was almost more of an afterthought. Right. All of the murders were noted to have occurred during non peak hours at these individual stores.

[Mike Gibson]

So was it him? Casing the places and knowing that in advance or just the luck of the draw?

[Mike Ferguson]

Or was it the fact that he selected stores that just by the nature of the store was less likely to have a big crowd at any one time?

[Mike Gibson]

And that makes, that makes pretty good sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, it could be a combination of factors. I think the killer did select certain type of stores. Yeah. But he also may have cased them in advance to figure out the traffic pattern flow. Now, eventually, through ballistics, they were able to conclusively tie all of these murders together because the same.22 caliber CCI copper clad lead ammo was used in each murder. Police had several witnesses and they had two composite sketches of the killer. He was a white male, somewhere between 25 and 40 years old. He was thought to have been somewhere between 5 foot 7 and 5 foot 10, thin with dirty blonde or blondish red hair. On December 29, 1994, this is over two years after the murders. Inside Edition aired an episode on the Interstate 70 killer. And it was just 10 minutes after the episode aired that the St. Charles Police Department started receiving tips.

[Mike Gibson]

Within eight hours, 400 tips.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's the power of a case being profiled on a popular show.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, when you show those composite drawings, a lot of people can see somebody in that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that looks like such and such.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I hate him. So I'm gonna call it. But I mean, you know, it's the power of a show like America's Most Wanted. They, they saw they helped solve a lot of cases. They really did because they were getting information out there to a wide audience as opposed to, you know, the composite sketch being shown to the Wichita area. Right now you're showing a sketch to essentially at least the entire United States, if not a larger population. And the case was aired on Unsolved Mysteries twice. And it made America's Most Wanted as well. And they got a lot of tips after those airings. Also that same year, the police working the Interstate 70 killings were contacted by the Texas Rangers. And there are some people that believe the i70 killer also killed women in Texas. On September 25, 1993, 51 year old Marianne Glasscock was working at a Fort Worth antique store when she was shot in the head with a.22 caliber handgun. Then on November 1st, 20 year old Amy Vess was working at her dance apparel store in Arlington, Texas. She was shot once in the head with a.22. Now, these cases are different. One of the big differences is that police were able to confirm that both of the killings In Texas were done with the same.22 handgun. However, it was determined that it was a different.22 than was used in the 6i70 series killings. But when you look at it, Gibbs, the two Texas murders. Very similar.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To the six murders in the i70 series small shops. One person working the murders were committed with a.22 caliber handgun. One shot to the back of the head.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty damn close, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Pretty close. The only difference is we're talking about a different handgun ballistically.

[Mike Gibson]

But, you know, it is over a year later.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe the killer got a new handgun.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and I think that's what a lot of people theorize. That same killer using a different.22 caliber handgun took a small break, maybe moved, relocated for a number of possible reasons. Maybe this person got a new job that forced them to relocate. There's a lot of theories on this case, on these cases. Now, There was a third shooting in Texas on January 15, 1994 that police believe is connected to the other two Texas murders. This one occurred in Houston. 35 year old Vicki Webb was working inside her gift shop when a customer walked into her store asking questions about the area. He looked around the store a bit, and then he walked up behind her and shot her in the back of her head. But the shot didn't kill Vicki. It hit one of her vertebrae, which stopped the bullet from going any further. This woman was really smart, Gibbs. Yeah, she quickly played dead, hoping that the man would think she was dead and leave. But he didn't. He moved in for a second shot and he placed the tip of the barrel to the back of her head and pulled the trigger. But the gun didn't go off. It misfired. And Vicki later recalled hearing this man laugh out loud about the fact that his gun misfired. And she said that she could feel him stepping over her as he was leaving the store.

[Mike Gibson]

She did great, though.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mike Gibson]

She played dead through it all.

[Mike Ferguson]

To keep your wits about you after you've just been shot, to be able to process information and think, okay, my best course of action is to play dead.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Unbelievable. So Vicki survived and obviously was able to tell her story to police. But the big thing was that she was able to describe her shooter, and it very closely matched the description that many other people have given.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In all of these killings, which is

[Mike Gibson]

telling to me, you know, she's saying this is what he looks like, but matched the composite drawings from the witnesses from up north. Same caliber handgun and like you said, the same M.O. walking into a Small store, shooting him in the back of the head. It's just all too similar.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, Gibbs, what you're saying, I think, is the exact reason why there's so much speculation about this case. There are a lot of people that believe all of these murders, the i70 murders, as well as the Texas murders, were committed by the same individual.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think the thing that throws people off is the gun. Obviously, if ballistics matched the same gun to all the murders, that would be conclusive, but it's not that hard to go get a new gun.

[Mike Gibson]

No. Most people have multiple guns.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So to me, that doesn't rule it out as being the same killer, but it also doesn't make me believe strongly that it is. I'm just. I'm up in the air, as are a lot of people.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

What the states did do is they formed a multi state task force to make sure that all the information that came in, all the leads were shared and worked. Which is a very good thing.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because as you and I have talked about in a lot of cases, I think that's the thing that has hampered many investigations that covered multiple jurisdictions. The different agencies don't talk to each other, they don't share information. And that was especially true in the past. I think, you know, they've gotten a lot better with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that also comes with the much better technology that we have today. The task force has a database with over 70,000 potential witnesses, suspects that were known to have been in and around the areas where the murders occurred. And that meet certain criteria.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. It seems like a large number.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does.

[Mike Gibson]

But when you think about how they would get that information, I don't think it's too shocking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and you're also talking about areas of the country that when you look at each individual city and total it up, that's a pretty big population.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

So for me, 70,000. It doesn't seem outrageous.

[Mike Gibson]

No. When you canvas the area where the person was murdered and look at restaurants and hotels and gas stations, and you pull all that electronic data in, I'm not surprised.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, as we recap this case, the first six murders, the murders that are known to be linked to the i70 killer, they all occurred within 29 days.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is a very short span of time for someone to commit six murders. When you think about the fact that the person had to have traveled about 1700 miles.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In those 29 days. So the killer was on the road. Right. Had to stop and get gas, had to eat at restaurants, had to sleep Somewhere.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, you can wonder whether that sleeping occurred in a hotel. Did it occur in the back of a big rig?

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because the occupation, trucker, always comes up when you have these type of murders that span a rather large geography.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, you're looking at the trucker, you're looking at hitchhiker, you're looking at maybe some type of regional sales

[Mike Ferguson]

salesperson that covers a large area. The task force did reach out to the FBI to have them work up a profile, but it really didn't give them any information much more than what they already had.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they continue to get updates from the FBI, and I think all these agencies are looking for any cases, you know, back during that time frame that might have had a similar MO or they're looking for things today.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because who knows? We don't know. This killer could still be active, for all we know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, that's one thing that we don't know, because they did stop the killings. Did stop. We don't have any other records of similar cases. Did this guy walk into the wrong store one day and met his death?

[Mike Ferguson]

He could have been in a car accident.

[Mike Gibson]

Car accident. Did he get arrested? Did he go off to jail for something else?

[Mike Ferguson]

We don't know. The problem with identifying this killer is, you know, as far as we know, there really is very little in the way of physical evidence, especially when you talking about DNA. So I don't think they're just all of a sudden going to get a hit from some database. I mean, I really think Gibbs is going to be somebody that knew something back then, just all of a sudden recalls a conversation that they heard back in the day and puts two and two together.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or something like that. I mean, it really is going to take someone coming forward and saying, hey, this is some information I've been sitting on. It may be something, it may not be something, or it may be, I know who the killer is, and this is who it is.

[Mike Gibson]

That's one thing bad about random killings. There's nothing that links it, and that's

[Mike Ferguson]

why they're very, very difficult to solve. Yeah, but when you think about it, to be in so many different states and to kill six people or eight or nine, depending on if you're adding in the Texas murders, and to have nobody know anything about it, you didn't share with somebody, you didn't get drunk and blab or, you know, it's not impossible to pull off. It's doable, but it's hard. Right. But for now, these cases Remain unsolved. And again, I don't think they'll be easy to solve. Not impossible, but not easy. If you told me that they had DNA, right. That they knew conclusively came from the killer, I'd say we got a pretty good shot.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That this person, if they're still alive, they're somehow going to end up in a database, or they're going to be able to do one of those newfangled technology things that they've been doing, and they're going to match the killer's DNA somehow to a family member.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

On the family tree and narrow it down. But that's it. That's it for the i70 killer. Gibbs, we got some voicemails. You want to hear those?

[Mike Gibson]

Yes. Hear them.

[Listener/Caller]

Hey, Mike and Gibby. My name is Brandon Condon. I'm from Indianapolis, Indiana. I was listening to the podcast about Susan Lyle and realized something that I had never known. Richard Condon is actually a cousin of mine. Lives in New York with my dad's sister, his father. This is something that's never robbed my family, but I can promise you that as soon as I get time to visit my dad, I'll be asking him about this. And if he knows anything other than that. Keep up the good work. I love what you guys do and enjoy listening to your podcast every week. All right, thanks.

[Mike Ferguson]

Wow. Gibbs, we often get calls about people that have, you know, some type of quasi connection to a case.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is a pretty close connection.

[Mike Gibson]

It's really close, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, Richard is this guy's cousin. You know, Richard was a kind of a. I don't want to use the word strange, but he was a central figure in the case.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

The thing about Richard that I took from that case is there are people that believe he had something to do with it. There are a lot of people that think he didn't.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's nothing conclusively linking him to anything. I mean, we have no idea either way. The one thing I will say about persons of interest, people that hit police radar.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think it's pretty easy to hit police radar. Sometimes it's really hard to get off.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that goes double for the court of public opinion. Right. When you're attached to a case in some way, unless the police come out and say, we know that so and so couldn't have done it, and here's why. It's like your name is just always attached to that case. I kind of feel bad about that. If. Especially if he had nothing whatsoever to do with the case, but maybe they

[Mike Gibson]

were engaged, you know?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. We really have no idea.

[Mike Gibson]

But the parents didn't know. All that kind of stuff just clouds it up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep. But very interesting.

[Listener/Caller]

Hey, guys, it's Danika calling again from Vancouver, Canada. I just wanted to tell you guys, I just recently became a Patreon member, and it's super awesome. All this stuff on there is hilarious. I don't want to give too much away, but one of my favorite things was when you said that Mike was a break dancer. I don't even remember what episode it was, but. And that's how you lost your hair. I'm sorry. That made me crack up. Yeah. And also, I just realized, too, I don't know if it was just a Patreon episode, but I had called in earlier in the year to suggest doing the highway of Tears, and you guys covered it, so that was a nice surprise. So I'm excited to find that. Wishing you guys the happiest New Year. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Have a good one, guys. Bye.

[Mike Gibson]

So, what you don't know is that we knew eventually you would listen to us and join Patreon. And so when we did the High Wave Tears earlier, it was on your future recommendation.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's trippy.

[Mike Gibson]

That's trippy. And Mike also does pop and lock.

[Mike Ferguson]

We have some surprises that we haven't unveiled yet, but there were a number of factors that went into me losing my hair, the head spinning, break dancing was just one of them.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. He's lost more in the last three years because I sit here.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're working side by side with you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Listener/Caller]

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Bernadette from Murder Effect Podcast. I am a longtime fan of your show, and I've been listening for so long, and you're. The podcast actually got me interested in starting my own. So thank you for setting the bar so high and continue what you're doing. Thanks.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, thanks, Bernadette. We really appreciate that.

[Mike Gibson]

That's awesome.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it's kind of funny, Gibbs, that we've been doing this for a while.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I know because I get. People reach out to me. We have inspired a number of people to start their own podcasts. And maybe that's because they think we're so dumb. If we can pull it off, anybody can pull it off.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know if that Gibby can say stuff incur, you know, by bad, bad grammar.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I look at it as, you know, if we're inspiring anybody to do anything good right.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nothing bad, but. But as long as it's good and productive, I'm cool with that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You know, I like what we do. We have our own thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And I wish everybody out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do. And I. And I think that's important.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

We don't bash anybody.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

We don't wish ill of anybody. I hope everybody succeeds. Morpher guy. I know Mike Morford. You got to watch him.

[Mike Gibson]

I tell you what.

[Listener/Caller]

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Linda from North Carolina, a loyal listener and Patreon supporter. I originally started listening when Yalls episodes were in the 40s, so recently I was out of things to listen to, so I went back to episode one and wanted to start from the beginning. So I have to say that you have come a long way since those first episodes. And I mean, a long way. A couple of those were a little hard to listen to. I feel like I can be honest with you, because even though I don't know you personally, you do ride with me to and from work every day in the car. So there's that. Well, anyway, y' all do a great job as team tcat, and y' all just keep getting better and better, so keep your own time ticking. Bye.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, maybe we need to go back

[Mike Ferguson]

and re record everything.

[Mike Gibson]

Everything.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I'm sure she's talking about True Crime all the Time, but it was. We were a little better on Unsolved, I think, because we had been doing it for a little while. But I can't argue with her. The. Some of the first episodes of True Crime all the Time, where we were trying to find our footing, and we didn't. We weren't.

[Mike Gibson]

We weren't even sitting across from each other back then.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. I was sitting there calling in on Skype and. Yeah, I think it's the same with anyone. Unless you are an expert at something, it takes a while to get your footing and kind of figure out. And it's not just putting out a podcast, it's how do you want to put it out?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know what makes you feel good at the end of the day when the episode is done?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, let's be honest, too. You were pretty new at editing.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's true. I was not good at editing when we first started.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. That's why we can hear your doggy a few times in the background walking around.

[Mike Ferguson]

But we appreciate it. We appreciate the candidness, and I. I can't argue with you one bit. All right, Gibbs, that is it for another episode of True Crime all the Time. Unsolved So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. T.

[Mike Gibson]

Sam.

[Mike Ferguson]

At first I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto tv. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. Truth is, it's just so Beautiful on Pluto TV. Free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 and the text files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV Stream now.

[Advertisement Announcer]

Pay never For a small business owner, every day is full of surprises. Some great, some not so great, like when a client cancels their order at the last minute. But here's a surprise you will like. Progressive provides small business owners with 30 customizable coverage options to help keep their business going strong. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates and third party insurers. Coverage is not available in all states or for all vehicles and coverage selections.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Ever notice how life's best stories don't

[Mike Ferguson]

happen in your living room? They happen on the open road, out on the water or parked under the stars.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

At Progressive, they get that you want

[Mike Ferguson]

to focus on the experience, not worry

[Mike Gibson]

about the what ifs.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

That's why they offer quality insurance designed

[Mike Ferguson]

for your ride, whether That's a boat, RV or motorcycle. Adventure with confidence. Visit progressive.com and see how easy it is to protect your favorite way to get away. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in dc. Prices vary based on how you buy,

[Advertisement Announcer]

wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures. Protect your dog from parasites with Cridellio Quattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit cordelioquattrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quattro and

[Mike Ferguson]

visit quattro dog.com

[Advertisement Announcer]

when it's time to scale your business. It's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.