The Decker Girls

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved Episode 445: The Decker Girls (Released Dec 22, 2025)
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Case: The Decker Girls – The Tragic Disappearance and Murder of the Decker Sisters

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Episode Overview

This episode of True Crime All The Time Unsolved delves into the heartbreaking case of the Decker girls: Peyton (9), Evelyn (8), and Olivia (5), who were murdered by their father, Travis Decker, after a court-ordered visitation in May 2025. The hosts, Mike Ferguson and Mike "Gibby" Gibson, walk listeners through Travis Decker’s background, the events leading up to the crime, the investigation’s challenges—including missed Amber Alert opportunities—the aftermath, and broader issues surrounding veterans’ mental health and systemic failures.

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Key Discussion Points & Timeline

Travis Decker: Early Life & Military Background

[04:03]

• Travis, from Pewaukee, Wisconsin, was a decorated high school athlete and followed his Green Beret father’s footsteps into the military.
• Joined the Army in 2013, deployed to Afghanistan in 2014, later stationed in Italy and Georgia. Married Whitney in 2015; the couple had three daughters.
• Noted as quiet, hardworking, somewhat narcissistic, and a bit of an outcast by a former squadmate. Discharged from the elite Ranger Regiment after failing Ranger school.

“He competed at the state level in wrestling and played JV University football.” —Mike Ferguson [04:13]

Military Transition & Mental Health Decline

[10:42]

• Struggled with PTSD, insomnia, screaming at night, and potential undiagnosed or unmanaged borderline personality disorder.
• Friends and family noted steep declines after military service ended. Whitney’s attorney stressed lack of accessible VA/mental health resources.

“He would scream in the middle of the night, soak the bed, and only get one or two hours of sleep.” —Mike Ferguson [12:29]

Custody & Parenting Plan

[15:01]

• Whitney held full custody. Travis received short, supervised visitations—later contested due to his instability.
• Whitney raised concerns: Travis was homeless (living in his truck, motels, or campgrounds) and possibly not medicated for his diagnosed conditions.

“I cannot have our girls staying in what is essentially a homeless shelter, at times unsupervised with dozens of strange men, or staying in a tent...” —Mike Ferguson, quoting Whitney’s affidavit [16:37]

The Disappearance

[21:53]

• May 30, 2025: The girls went missing after Travis failed to return them from visitation.
• Whitney reported them missing at 9:45pm. Travis’s phone was off, breaking his usual pattern of reliable communication.

“I'm trying to put myself in Whitney’s shoes... starts to go through your mind when he doesn't return at the scheduled time and... you can't get ahold of him.” —Mike Ferguson [22:37]

• Crucial Issue: Amber Alert was not issued as authorities classified it as a custody matter (“no imminent threat”). Only an endangered person alert was released the next day.

The Investigation & Discovery

[26:41]

• Police tracked Travis’s truck via Flock license plate reader on May 30. Found it on June 2 near Rock Island Campground.
• Scene included blankets, car seats, a wallet, two bloody handprints on the truck—raising alarm.
• [27:53] About 75-100 yards from the truck, the bodies of Peyton, Evelyn, and Olivia were found with plastic bags over their heads, bound with zip ties—signs of asphyxiation.

“Deputies found the bodies of Peyton, Evelyn, and Olivia. Each had a plastic bag over their head. Zip ties... scattered around.” —Mike Ferguson [27:58]

Manhunt for Travis Decker

[33:59]

• Travis—highly trained, experienced in wilderness survival—had a 3-day head start. Authorities warned he could be anywhere, possibly Canada (evidenced by Google searches: “move to Canada”).
• Remote west Washington campgrounds and trails (including areas near the Pacific Crest Trail) were closed. National Guard and FBI supported the search.
• Multiple false sightings reported in Idaho and Washington over the summer.
• Notable: A family in Idaho reported a highly detailed sighting consistent with Travis’s features, but it was a false alarm. [45:06]

Discovery of Travis Decker’s Remains

[51:56]

• Sep 18: Remains believed to be Travis were found on a mountainside less than a mile—yet 1,200 vertical feet—above where the girls were discovered. Items matched what Travis wore; remains had decomposed significantly and were scattered by animals.
• DNA later confirmed the remains as Travis Decker. Cause of death undetermined due to lack of torso and skull.

“It would take almost three hours to hike in there... virtually uninhabitable.” —Sheriff Mike Morrison [51:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He was a present and active father up until the end, still attending the girls' soccer games, dance, and theater productions.” —Mike Ferguson, quoting Whitney’s statement [42:59]
• “She wants the Amber Alert system fixed in Washington State to prevent further tragedies... and she wants the Mental Health Resources for Veterans to be fixed.” —Mike Ferguson, on Whitney’s post-case advocacy [44:13]
• On the community blaming Whitney:
  • “I just don't see how in any way you can blame Whitney.” —Mike Ferguson [44:40]
  • “She loved him and... believed he loved the girls and that no harm would come to them.” —Mike Gibson [44:52]
• On the horror of the murders:
  • “They were taken by their own father, the man who was supposed to love them, protect them.” —Mike Ferguson [56:51]

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Key Timestamps

• Travis’s upbringing & military service: [04:03–08:32]
• Mental health struggles, marital separation: [10:42–14:20]
• Custody disputes and visitation details: [15:01–18:41]
• Discovery that the girls are missing: [21:53–24:29]
• Amber Alert controversy: [24:29–26:03]
• Finding the girls’ bodies & murder details: [26:41–29:04]
• Investigation and manhunt for Travis: [33:59–46:53]
• Discovery & identification of Travis’s remains: [51:56–54:13]
• Episode wrap-up and reflection: [56:51–58:13]

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Reflection and Larger Themes

• The episode highlights the devastating impact of untreated mental illness, particularly PTSD in veterans, compounded by gaps in health care and systemic failures.
• The hosts and Whitney’s attorney repeatedly emphasize Whitney’s diligence and love as a mother—challenging public backlash against her.
• Systemic issues raised: The stringent criteria for Amber Alerts, and the insufficient support for veterans in crisis.
• The lack of clear motive (“why now?”) and the incomprehensibility of a loving father’s turn to murder remains at the heart of the tragedy.

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Takeaway

This episode serves as both a meticulous recounting of the Decker family tragedy and a call for better mental health resources for veterans and reform of Amber Alert protocols. Listeners are left with sobering questions about how such senseless violence can erupt within a family—and how system-wide change is needed to prevent similar tragedies in the future.

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Memorable Closing:
“It’s a sad case... three young girls who lost their lives, but on top of that, they were taken by their own father... and one of the toughest parts of this case for me is that we really don’t know why.” —Mike Ferguson [56:51]

Transcript

[Rebecca Henderson]

My name is special agent Rebecca Henderson.

[Mike Ferguson]

Thursday, January 8th on NBC.

[Rebecca Henderson]

There was an explosion at a top secret prison. Some of the most infamous killers broke free.

[Mike Ferguson]

The hunting party is back.

[Mike Gibson]

We're going in loud.

[Mike Ferguson]

FBI. The stakes have never been higher.

[Rebecca Henderson]

The longer they're out there, the more dangerous they're gonna become.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the killers never seen anything like this before.

[Mike Gibson]

Not even close.

[Mike Ferguson]

Have never been more twisted. This is Next level the Hunting Party, the thrilling season premiere Thursday, January 8th on NBC. Sam. Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 445 of the True Crime all the Time unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Doing great. You and I were just talking about are we ready for Christmas? And the answer is, I do not know. My wife usually does the shopping.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And so I can't give you an answer to that question.

[Mike Gibson]

You're just be ready to show up at that time.

[Mike Ferguson]

But whenever everybody wakes up, I will wake up, come down, open presents, you know, see what Santa brought.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And all that good stuff.

[Mike Gibson]

But this is awesome. Thank you. And you're like, I was thinking specifically about you when I got that for you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep. When my wife probably ordered it. Late night.

[Mike Gibson]

Her and her late night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Her late night shopping. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Carol hand.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Carol.

[Mike Ferguson]

Gammy.

[Mike Gibson]

I love some Gammy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, I not sure that came out exactly the way you thought it was going to, but we also had poppy gumpy.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, poppy gumpy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do you love you some poppy gumpy?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm not sure if I should be loving some poppy gumpy.

[Mike Ferguson]

We had Audrey G. What's going on, G? Jenna Gibson.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, there's a Gibby right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Amy Bridges.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Amy?

[Mike Ferguson]

Shaken Bake 420.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, shaken and bake.

[Mike Ferguson]

JC.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, JC?

[Mike Ferguson]

Louise Duffy.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Louise.

[Mike Ferguson]

Denise Jenkins.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Jenkins.

[Mike Ferguson]

Micah. KT.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, KT?

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, John McWaters.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, John.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Addison Baton.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, Addison, thank you. Love that name. Anyway, I've always liked Addison.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's a cool name. But we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime all the time we're talking about Alvin and Judith Neely. And you know, they were a young couple, married couple who went on a violent crime spree in the fall of 1982 that resulted in the death of two victims, one of whom was just 13 years old. And this is a really interesting but tragic kind of nasty story.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because Judith herself was a teenager.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right.

[Mike Ferguson]

She was only 15 years old. And the role she played in these murders was not small.

[Mike Gibson]

She was vicious.

[Mike Ferguson]

So that's out right now. Make sure you check it out. And. And speaking of Christmas, we want to wish everybody a happy holidays. No matter what you celebrate. Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, whatever it is.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I hope you have a good one. And because we are taking next week off, we want to wish everybody a happy New Year as well.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right. And we'll see you after the holidays.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Be back on the. The third, I think it is. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the murders of the Decker girls. Travis Decker was described as an active father who loved his three daughters. Everything seemed normal when he picked the girls up for a scheduled visitation on May 30, 2025. But Travis didn't return the girls on time. Days later, police tragically found their bodies in a remote campground. But Travis Decker was missing, and a massive manhunt ensued. So we have a lot to unpack here, and obviously, we know this is going to be a tragic story with the. With the death of some young girls. That's always tough to take. Travis Caleb Dacker was born on August 15, 1992. He grew up in Pewaukee, Wisconsin, and graduated from Pewaukee High School. One neighbor described Travis as extremely athletic and noted that he competed at the state level in wrestling and played JV University football. Okay. I mean, there's. There's some, you know, gibby tie ins here.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. Wrestling. He was a singlet, where he was.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you participated at the state level.

[Mike Gibson]

Of course.

[Mike Ferguson]

The state of Illinois.

[Mike Gibson]

Me and my cousins.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you were number one in Illinois.

[Mike Gibson]

There was nobody in second place.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nobody.

[Mike Gibson]

No one close.

[Mike Ferguson]

Travis joined the army in 2013. He was an infantryman from March 2013 to July 2021. He was deployed to Afghanistan for four months in 2014. Per AP News.

[Mike Gibson]

He did a pretty long tour.

[Mike Ferguson]

He did well. I mean, he was in the army for what, eight years? But he was deployed for four months. Soon after completing his deployment, Travis met his wife Whitney online while he was stationed at the Joint Army Air Force Base in Washington. He met Whitney in 2014, when he had recently completed his deployment in Afghanistan. Travis and Whitney were married for 10 years. They married in 2015. They had three daughters, Peyton, Evelyn, and Olivia. They were stationed in Italy for three years in Georgia for three years before they settled in Wenatchee, Washington State, where they both had family.

[Mike Gibson]

Be okay to be stationed in Italy for a while. It sounds fun.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do think it would be fun. Now, I don't. You know, depending on how old the kids are. All right, maybe it's fun, maybe it's not. I've always wanted to travel. Never thought about really living somewhere, though, for an extended period of time, but. Well, you could really soak it up.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure you could.

[Mike Ferguson]

The culture, the really get to know the area. Much more so than if you just took a week's vacation there.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right.

[Mike Ferguson]

From 2014 to 2016, Travis was an automatic rifleman with the 75th Ranger Regiment at Joint Base Lewis McCourt in Washington. An anonymous squad made of Travis spoke to Fox 13 and gave some insight into his military past. They served together in 2017 in the 503rd Infantry Regiment, 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team. While stationed in Italy, this squadmate described Travis's quiet, a bit of an outcast, a hard worker, and somewhat of a narcissist. Before joining the 503rd, Travis was reportedly removed from the elite Ranger regiment after failing to complete Ranger school. And from what I understand, that is very, very tough. Yeah, Ranger school, you're talking any of those elite squads like the Navy seals, the Rangers, Green Berets. If you can make it through that all right, you've really accomplished something. Because I think a lot of people tap out, they think they can do it, and they just find out they cannot.

[Mike Gibson]

And that's what I tell everybody that attends my Gibby grappling school. Like, I know you think you belong here, but there's a possibility you won't make it through. And if you see me come up and tap you on the shoulder, that means you have to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

So now is it a requirement that you wear the singlet while you teach the class?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I'm trying to lead by example.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. Okay. Because I mean, I think at your age, and I'm not giving that out, but, you know, it might be time to hang the single it up. You know, it was one thing when you were 17 years old, probably ripped and had abs. Now, not so much.

[Mike Gibson]

It might not be as flattering as one would hope.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And I am more out of shape than you, I'll admit that. But you don't see me wearing nut huggers, walking around that just ain't going to happen. Skin tight, you know, outfits.

[Mike Gibson]

But, you know, when you. Seriously, when you think about Travis, you know, this is probably something he really wanted and not to be able to get.

[Mike Ferguson]

It could have been a major letdown, I would think. Yeah, most likely was. Travis often spoke about wanting to follow in his father's footsteps, as his father was a Green Beret. Travis talked about his dad a lot and appeared to worship him. Travis also expressed the desire to return to Special Forces, but never did. So, you know, maybe that does speak to what you were just talking about. Right? Big letdown. His father was a Green Beret. He idolized his father, and he. He washed out. So, okay, what did that do to him psychologically? Travis and his squad mate followed each other on social media after their time in the military. The source noted that Travis deleted nearly all his posts, photos and videos at some point around the time of the murders. And that's. That's got to be a red flag to people.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it should be worrisome.

[Mike Ferguson]

Travis joined the Washington National Guard in 2021. In 2022, he and Whitney separated. According to Whitney Dacre's attorney, Arianna Kozark, Travis initiated the divorce in 2023 because he felt like he wasn't worth it. And I had to, you know, kind of grapple with that, analyze it a couple of different times. All right, they're separated, but it's actually Travis who initializes the. Or initiates the divorce. But it's because he believes he's not worth it. And that just struck me as strange.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe his confidence, his lack of getting his dream has impacted their relationship.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe his mental health to some degree. Kozar told ABC that Travis struggled with mental health issues, including ptsd, and was unable to get help through veterans resources. And I know a lot of people, you know, do struggle with PTSD after they get out of the military or return home from deployment, things like that. It's a very serious thing. There's no doubt about that. It does make me sad anytime that I hear that someone is unable to get the help they need through the va because, I mean, I. I mean, I think that's what they're there for.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. They, you know, if you put the time in for your country, the country should be there for you when you need them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, we don't have all the particulars of it, but that. That's what was reported. Kozart said the courts didn't fail these girls. It wasn't the judge. It wasn't Whitney, it was our system. Whitney feels like the system really let Travis down. If somebody would have provided Travis with the help that he needed, those girls would be a lot. Travis's PTSD was something he always carried with him through their marriage, but he didn't spiral until he got out of active reserves in 2023. Throughout their marriage, he would scream in the middle of the night, soak to bed, and only get one or two hours of sleep. And that just cannot be good for you, Right? Obviously, a lack of sleep is harmful on the body. That's pretty well documented.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's not good for your body. It's not good for your mind. It's a problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

Kart noted that before the girls went missing, there were no red flags. He had some mental health issues and some instability in his life, but other than that, he loved those girls very much. And him and Whitney were able to communicate on a regular basis, not just as co parents, but as friends. So, I mean, this is Whitney's attorney, right, saying all of this, and obviously she's talking about the ptsd, but she's not considering that to be a red flag as to what is going to happen. Military officials reported that Travis had been absent from mandatory National Guard drills for roughly a year. Preparations for an administration separation began in 2023 or 2024, but the process had not officially started, and Travis remained in the National Guard.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm assuming that's probably a big no.

[Mike Ferguson]

No.

[Mike Gibson]

Not to show up to mandatory drills.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming he's still getting paid, you know, and part of that is, what, one weekend a month, A couple of weeks a year? I don't know exactly what it is, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Like a commercial.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, be all you can be, but if they're paying you and you haven't been in a year, that's like, you know, at your job. Yeah, you don't show up for a year, but you're still getting paychecks. Like, they say you're missing work, and you say, well, I really haven't been missing it all that much.

[Mike Gibson]

I said, I'm down in the basement with a red stapler.

[Mike Ferguson]

Travis and Whitney had a parenting plan. Whitney had full custody, but the court granted Travis three hours of visitation on Fridays and eight hours every other weekend as long as he remained in Wenatchee Valley. In September 2024, Whitney decided to seek legal counsel and petitioned the court to put restrictions in place due to concerns about trust Travis's mental health and stability.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, she's the Mother of the kids. She's got concerns, so she's just trying to look out for their best interest.

[Mike Ferguson]

But now I have to go back to her attorney statement because she said before the girls went missing, there were no red flags. Well, how can that not be if Whitney is petitioning the court for restrictions due to her concerns about Travis's mental health. Whitney wrote that Travis's mental health issues had worsened and he had become increasingly unstable and was often living out of his truck or occasionally motels and campgrounds. She sought to restrict him from overnight visits with the girls until he found housing. I don't blame her one bit. You know, I. I believe that he should be able to see his girls, but, you know, if you don't have a stable living situation and especially if you're living out of your truck, that's not a good environment for kids.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it's not.

[Mike Ferguson]

So doesn't mean you can't see him. But overnight visits kind of seem to be a no go in that scenario. Whitney wrote, he has made huge sacrifices to serve our country and. And loves his girls very much, but he has got to get better. I don't want to keep Travis from the girls at all, but I cannot have our girls staying in what is essentially a homeless shelter, at times unsupervised with dozens of strange men, or staying in a tent or living in his truck with him both in extreme temperatures and unknown areas for their safety.

[Mike Gibson]

Valid point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Valid. Very valid. I'm backing her up 100%. Whitney claimed Travis was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which she believed he did not take medications for.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's a problem. I think most of the time you should probably be taking the medication to control that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I go back to it being said that he wasn't able to get the resources. So obviously he was diagnosed at some point. Was he able to get the medications and just decided that he didn't want to take them, or was he unable to get them? Because those are two very different things. Under the parenting plan, Travis was supposed to get mental health treatment and anger management counseling, but he had not been following the plan and refused to sign the document.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, is that because he felt like he didn't have an anger management problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or didn't need mental health treatment? It could be, but I would say, you know, he's not doing himself any favors. Right. If his goal is to spend time with his girls. On May 27, 2025, Travis spoke to Wenatchee officers after rear ending another vehicle. He was told he would receive a ticket in the mail, but for no insurance and following too closely.

[Mike Gibson]

I just feel like his world's crumbling in front of him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I get that sense as well. You know, a lot of times something like that kind of in a vacuum is not a big deal, right? Okay. You get a ticket, they let you go on your way. You may have to go into court at some later date, but that shouldn't mean that your world is crumbling down on you. But when you're dealing with a whole bunch of other things, something like that can, you know, feel much more dire than what it really is. I think to some people. I'm sure a lot of you have heard of Happy Mammoth, the brand dedicated to making women's lives easier with science backed nature inspired supplements. One of their best sellers is the prebiotic collagen protein designed to support gut health and overall well being. My wife has been taking Happy Mammoths prebiotic collagen protein and it's been a real game changer. This isn't just any collagen. It's specifically formulated with prebiotics that help nourish the gut lining and support digestive comfort. Most collagen powders on the market only focus on skin, hair and nails. Happy Mammoths prebiotic collagen protein combines grass fed collagen peptides with prebiotic fibers to help nourish your gut bacteria. Because your gut plays a key role in how your body feels every day, supporting it with the right nutrition can make a meaningful difference. My wife has noticed a real lift in energy and her overall well being since using Happy Mammoths prebiotic collagen protein. Happy Mammoth uses only science backed ingredients formulated for women. They never compromise on quality and and that really shows in the benefits their customers experience. Right now you can try prebiotic collagen protein risk free and get 15% off your entire first order with code UNSOLVED at checkout. That's happy mammoth.com use code UNSOLVED for 15% off today. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property, its location and the neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com. we've done your homework. On May 30, 2025, 9 year old Peyton, 8 year old Evelyn and 5 year old Olivia Decker were reported missing by their mother after Travis failed to return them from their scheduled visitation. Whitney reported them missing at 9:45pm Travis was reportedly quieter than usual when picking up the girls, which was said to for him, be out of character. He allegedly talked about getting rid of his dog due to housing and financial struggles. He spoke to Whitney for 15 to 20 minutes and told her he would see her at 8pm Travis's phone went straight to voicemail when he was called during the scheduled return time. And I'm trying to put myself in Whitney shoes. You know, we talked about it, Gibbs. Right. She is seeing some signs that, you know, frankly, she's worried about and she's taken some legal steps. Right. She doesn't want the girls, you know, spending overnights with Travis, but she believes, you know, he, he still loves them dearly and should be allowed to see them during the day. Yeah, but what starts to go through your mind when he doesn't return at the scheduled time and then a half hour goes by, an hour goes by, he's, you know, almost two hours late and you can't get a hold of him. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

The phone just rolls, the voicemail. You know, obviously she's panicking. You know, she's thinking about the three most precious things in her. Her life. Yeah, and she's probably somewhat confused too, knowing that her husband, father of their daughters, is not responding to her. But is she thinking the worst possible thing or she's just thinking maybe something's happened to him and she doesn't know what because she can't get a hold of him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know if, you know, you go right to worst possible thing because Whitney told a detective that there had been no issues with recent visitations. And Travis was communicative. He had never failed to return the girls before, so it wasn't like he had a history of any of this. Court records state that Whitney expressed concern and further noted that he is currently experiencing some mental health issues. The night the girls were reported missing, the Wenatchee police asked the Washington State Patrol to issue an Amber Alert, but it declined, saying that the case did not meet the criteria because it was a custody matter without an imminent threat.

[Mike Gibson]

But things have turned out better if that alert went out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, there's no way to know for sure. But it wouldn't have hurt, right? You could definitely say that. I get it. They have criteria for issuing an Amber Alert, and according to them, this didn't meet the criteria. The patrol did issue an endangered missing person alert the following day, but it's not the same as an Amber Alert. This doesn't result in notifications being sent to mobile phone.

[Mike Gibson]

So you miss a pretty big chunk of audience.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Officers search local motels and information from the local Flock database indicated Travis's truck traveled westbound on Highway 2 from Wenatchee on May 30. On May 31 to detectives learned Travis and his daughters didn't show up to a planned 5K running event. The Wenatchee PD announced the disappearance of the girls and noted that Travis was homeless and living in his vehicle or staying at various hotels or motels or at campgrounds. And going back to the Amber Alert. I just wonder at what point did the Washington State Patrol wish they would have put it out? You know, I get it. They thought it was just a custody dispute. But obviously as time goes on, more information comes in. It looks worse and worse. I'm sure they second guess themselves.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, they would have to. And then you wonder, what is Whitney's state of mind at this point?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you said it earlier, right? It's the three most precious people to her in the world. She has no idea where they are. I can't imagine it other than to believe it must be a heart sinking, just helpless feeling that is all consuming. And I don't know how you function. I don't know how some people function in the face of some of these disappearances. I really don't.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think it would be tough.

[Mike Ferguson]

With help from the FBI over the weekend, detectives narrowed down the search area to somewhere between Icicle Road and Chumstick Road near Leavenworth. On June 2, a warrant was obtained for Travis's arrest on three counts of first degree custodial interference. That afternoon, investigators found Travis's truck abandoned near the rock Island Campground 40 miles west of Wenatchee in Chelin County. Cell phone activity showed Travis drove to and left the campground a day before the kidnapping. Per Fox 13, there were two bloody handprints on the tailgate of the truck. The truck contained blankets, food, car seats and a wallet. The camp showed signs of recent activity with a tent and cooler than found a short distance away. And, okay, they find his truck. I don't know if what is found in the truck or even at the camp really raises the level of concern, but you'd have to believe, Gibbs, that two bloody handprints on the tailgate of the truck does.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think that elevates everybody at that site at that moment.

[Mike Ferguson]

About 75 to 100 yards away, down a small embankment, deputies found the bodies of Peyton, Evelyn and Olivia. Each had a plastic bag over their head. Zip ties and plastic bags were scattered around the truck and along the path to the bodies. The girls had zip ties around their wrists or showed signs of having been zip tied. And, you know, I watch a lot of crime shows. I often think about police when they're in this all out effort to search for a missing person, or in this case, three children. And then they find three victims in this case. I mean, what a blow. It adds to it, the fact that they were so young, but you're putting all your energy into this search, and then it just comes crashing down with the sickening knowledge that they've been found dead.

[Mike Gibson]

I can't even imagine what each and every one of those officers and rescue people felt at that moment.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that pales in comparison to Whitney. Right. I mean, it's going to be rough on them, but nowhere near what Whitney is gonna go through. According to wsn, just hours before the girls were found, Whitney spoke to a Seattle news crew saying, I don't personally think that he's dangerous. I think that he's impulsive and he loves his children very much. I think that he's having a really hard time and just needs something to feel better. And for him, that's the girls. And I have no doubt that she felt that way. And part of that might just be wanting to be hopeful.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. And I don't think she probably ever dreamed that what happened to the girls.

[Mike Ferguson]

Would happen at his hands. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm with you. 100. I mean, you know, when you spend 10 years with someone, 10 years, a.

[Mike Gibson]

Long time, it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

You raced or were in the process of raising three children with them. You know them pretty well. I think for most, it would be extremely hard to believe that their significant other, the father or mother of their children, would end up killing them or harming them in any way. The preliminary exam concluded the girls died by asphyxiation. The report was included in an affidavit in support of a warrant for Travis's arrest.

[Mike Gibson]

It means that they suffered. They would have suffered through that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely. I Mean, I think just thinking about plastic bags being zip tied, that's a horrific thought that that's the way they went. Law enforcement held a news conference on June 3 calling for Travis to do the right thing by turning himself in. The Wenatchee police warned that Travis could be dangerous, noting that he was former military with extensive training. During a news conference on June 4, officials said Travis could be anywhere within the nation. And that's probably a pretty reasonable statement to make. There's some time that's gone by, you know, it doesn't take all that long to get anywhere in this country. Right. A few days of driving, you can get just about anywhere. Chelin County Sheriff Mike Morrison revealed that Travis had extensive experience in wilderness survival, something he'd been interested in since childhood. Travis was capable of spending days or weeks in the wilderness without needing a lot of equipment. 87% of Chelin county is not accessible by road, which could have benefited Travis's experience.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, of course, yeah. Somebody with his set of skills. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm sure those skills were only honed in the military. Right. But the other thing is Travis also had about a three day head start on the police. Sheriff Morrison said he could have scoped out the area before, put supplies out there and has the ability and the knowledge to survive for a long period of time. Morrison noted that the police spotted the shirt in Icicle Creek near the campground. A water rescue team was brought in to search the eight mile long creek. Reports of a possible sighting in McCall, Idaho were debunked the same day. And anytime we're talking about someone who's either missing or on the run, there are going to be sightings. In some cases, a lot of sightings, reported sightings. Right. And police have to check them out. Most of them turn out to be not credible. Not that someone's lying. I think it's very easy for, you know, someone to see somebody's picture splashed on the TV screen. And then, you know, later on you're at the gas station, you look over and you're like, oh, that guy kind of looks like the guy I just saw on TV. Yeah, I'm going to call the police. On June 5, authorities released an update warning those who owned cabins or lived in remote areas of Chelin, Kittitas, Kings, Naholmesh and Okanagan counties to be on alert. Remote homeowners were asked to keep their cabins and outbuildings locked and leave their blinds open and exterior lights on so law enforcement could see inside. You know, I think this is one thing you and I are not used to you. There are parts of the country that are extremely remote.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

You think about Alaska, obviously, a ton of land, a lot of remote places, but it seems like Washington State has quite a bit as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think that Pacific Northwest, plenty of areas to get lost in.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, where we live, you could, I guess you could get lost in the middle of a cornfield or a cow field, but somebody's probably going to see you from the road.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because most of them are alongside the highway. Authorities closed a wide swath of campgrounds and backpacking areas along the Pacific Crest Trail in Washington State during the search. The Pacific Crest Trail is a 2,650mile hiking and equestrian trail spanning from Mexico to Canada through California, Oregon and Washington.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like a fun journey.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does not. I mean, hiking on horseback.

[Mike Gibson]

No, you're not in.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm not in.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a hard pass.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a hard Pass. It's 2, 650 miles. What do I look like, Forrest Gump? I'm just gonna run it or what do you think? Now I'm probably out. If I'm in a vehicle, just don't. I don't even want to drive that far, to be honest with you. But I'm sure as heck not walking it. You know, I'm not. I'm not taking the beating on horseback for, you know, 2,600 miles.

[Mike Gibson]

Just not hearing your commitment.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I have no commitment whatsoever. The governor ordered the National Guard to help with the search by providing helicopter transportation to law enforcement in remote areas. A $20,000 reward was also issued. According to a U.S. marshals Service affidavit released that month, Travis's account contained Google searches such as how does a person move to Canada, how to relocate to Canada, and jobs Canada. Those searches were done on May 26th.

[Mike Gibson]

You know what pisses me off right now is that he was able to do searches about how to move to Canada, get jobs in Canada. Well, did you really need to do what you did?

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, I get what you're saying. Why not just move to Canada and leave? Yeah, I understand that. But here's the other thing. Could you not just get a job here and get your life together? I mean, I get it. There's talk of mental health issues and all of that, but if you're going through that, how is moving to Canada and getting a job in Canada going to solve those issues?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't think they would.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's the same argument you and I have about people who rob a store and the individuals are compliant with everything the robber demands, but yet, before leaving, they shoot the person and kill them when they already have access to everything they want, the money, all that. It just doesn't make any sense unless you just want to kill somebody.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to the affidavit, the location of the victims remains is relatively close to the Canadian border and approximately 11 miles from the Pacific Crest Trail, a well established trail that leads directly to Canada. So that's. I mean, it's pretty close. 11 miles to the trail, relatively close to the border. Probably not too hard to come up with the theory that, you know, he made his way into Canada. Whitney's attorney, Ariana Cozart, spoke to ABC on June 5, saying something came out of this man and he broke. That's it. When that man picked up those girls, his babies, he didn't have a plan to kill them. There's nothing that indicates that he did.

[Mike Gibson]

So she's thinking something triggered him.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, she's saying he broke. So, yeah, I mean, I think you could use the word trigger. Kard noted that during the week prior, Travis began telling Whitney he had nothing except for you and the girls. But this didn't raise concern. Cozart also said that Whitney has a lot of love and empathy for Travis and who he is in his core. He was a loving man, but something broke and whatever monster came out of him, it's something that he was trained to do in the military.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I think in what she is putting out there during this time, you can tell that she loves him and has that empathy for him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, just because you can't stay married doesn't mean you still don't love a person. But I do think that, you know, what we're hearing is there was just nothing that people saw that would lead them to believe in any way that he was capable of this. Yeah, I think Whitney knew he was going through some things. He was struggling, but she never doubted that he loved the girls, so why in the world would he harm them? They were really about the only thing good he had in his life.

[Mike Gibson]

And I'm sure she wasn't concerned at all that they would be hurt while in his care.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, no, most people wouldn't be. Whitney and her attorney advocate for a change in the mental health resources accessible for veterans and reforms for the Amber Alert system. Kart told abc, when there is a parent with limited visitation that has this history of mental health issues and is a military veteran with the training necessary to kill 100 different ways that Amber Alert should have been issued. And I get what she's saying, right? But there's. There's always going to be a set of circumstances in which something should occur, right? In this case, an Amber Alert, you can always look back at it after something tragic happens and say, yeah, I know what the guidelines and regulations were, but this, this, and this should have superseded it. And maybe the person is right, maybe they're not.

[Mike Gibson]

It's almost like maybe they need to look at what's happening differently. You know, look at the playbook and say, okay, it doesn't fit our typical playbook, but there's enough here to warrant us to maybe go ahead and override that.

[Mike Ferguson]

On June 9, Whitney and her lawyer released a statement. This said in part, per Idaho News, Whitney and Travis were married for a little over seven years when they met. Travis had just gotten back from a tour in Afghanistan as an Army Ranger. He seemed to suffer from mental health issues from the very beginning, presumably related to PTSD as a result of combat. Travis was not a violent man with Whitney or the girls ever. His mental health struggles led to the crumbling of their marriage in 2022. Travis attempted at times to get help through the VA, but he couldn't jump through all the hoops they required to actually get help. When talking with law enforcement about the things that Travis cared about, she said, Travis loved those girls and Jesus. He was a present and active father up until the end, still attending the girls soccer games, dance and theater productions. Although Travis was struggling with his own mental health, he was a good co parent, always communicating frequently with Whitney up until Friday evening when the girls went missing. He always answered his phone, always communicated if he was on his way or if they were going to be a few minutes late, and always responded to her texts until Friday night. Law enforcement has reported that his phone was turned off around 6pm on Friday evening. As far as I'm aware, that has never happened before with Travis. Information has come to light since the girl's abduction that Travis exhibited concerning behavior at work on Friday and had been trying to utilize emergency veterans services to no avail. Unfortunately, this knowledge was not conveyed to Whitney until after the girls went missing or she never would have allowed the girls to go with him. So it does sound like he had a job he was working.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it does. But it also sounded like he needed some help but couldn't get it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And you know, this statement that Whitney didn't know the extent, I guess, of what he was dealing with and if she had, she wouldn't have let the girls go with him. That's a tough one, and I'm sure that's tough for her to live with. The statement went on to say, what many do not seem to understand is that there were no red flags that would have led Whitney to have any concerns with Travis taking the girls for his short visitation limited to our region. There was no domestic violence ever. Travis didn't yell at the girls or abuse them in any way. He was an active and loving father until he wasn't. And no one knows when that changed. To blame Whitney, the courts, or the state Children's protective services is folly. It's also cruel and does nothing to help Whitney or our community. Whitney has three things pushing her forward at this moment. She wants the memories of her sweet baby girls honored. She wants the Amber Alert system fixed in Washington state to prevent further tragedies such as this one. And she wants the Mental Health Resources for Veterans to be fixed. As Whitney has said, the system failed us all, referencing the services for veterans and the Amber Alert system. So, I mean, it's a long statement. I do want to break a few things down. The one thing that I have no doubt about whatsoever is that I just don't see how in any way you can blame Whitney.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't see that either. I mean, I think she just loved him and he. She believed he loved the girls and that no harm would come to them as long as he was around them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because he would take care of them. Yeah, he would protect them. But it does make it seem as though obviously people were blaming her because why else would you need to put that in the statement?

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

There were two sightings in Idaho on June 4th and July 5th, and one in Washington on August 1st. But all three were unsuccessful or turned out not to be. Travis. On July 5th, the US Marshals received the tip from a family in the Bear Creek area of Idaho's Sawtooth National Forest. That was consistent with Travis's description. The family saw A white man, 5, 8 to 5, 10, wearing a black mesh cap, black gauge earrings, a cream T shirt, black shorts, low top sneakers, and a black Garmin watch. He had a long ponytail, an overgrown beard and mustache, and was carrying a black backpack. That is a very detailed description.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly is what I was thinking.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, the gauges, you know, that's not something everybody has.

[Mike Gibson]

Recognizing the Garmin watch.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, what percentage of men have a long ponytail? There's some things that stand out here that a lot of people just don't have. The search came to an end on July 9, when the Marshall's Greater Idaho Fugitive Task Force located the lookalike who had been spotted by multiple campers over the Fourth of July weekend that month, officials revealed that the bloody handprints on Travis's truck contained his DNA. Authorities had no reason to believe there were other suspects. And, I mean, let's face it, Gibbs. With everything that we've talked about, how could they think it would be anyone else but Travis Decker?

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe you just hope that it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Was somebody else and that maybe they did something to him as well. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's not out of the realm of possibility. On July 25, officials scaled back the manhunt due to a decrease in leads and tips. And sadly, that happens in every case. Right. There is a point in time where things start to dry up.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And the media stops covering as much, and it's just bound to happen.

[Mike Ferguson]

The latest search was done in the Blewett Pass area in the Wenatchee Mountains. But potential evidence and intelligence gathered in this area are inconclusive. Meaning we cannot confirm any of the information is directly associated with Mr. Decker. On August 1, officials received a tip from someone who believed they saw Travis near Snoqualmie Pass along the Pacific Crest Trail. But the search ended after a few hours. An August 18 press release revealed that two of the daughters had two bags over their heads, and the third daughter had three bags over her head. Back on August 6, the crime lab reported that the DNA profiles matching Travis Decker were found on the plastic bags and on the cable ties, confirming Travis was the only suspect. And I think that's really tough. Yeah, right. It's his bloody handprints on the truck. Well, you could make the argument that he was injured, too.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's somehow how, you know, he left those. But when you know that all three girls were killed with plastic bags, zip tied, you know, over their heads, and it's his DNA on the zip ties and the bags that's a tough one to get out from under. The daughter's DNA was also found on the bags. The autopsy determined their cause of death was suffocation. In late August, the FBI shut down the Rock Island Campground and surrounding area to conduct a grid search and found several items for examination. The purpose of the search was to locate Travis Decker, discover signs of his whereabouts, or find any other evidence of the murder of his three daughters. On August 29, Sheriff Mike Morrison revealed bones found near the campground had been sent to Central Washington University for analysis. On September 3, the Seattle FBI office announced the bones were not human. And unfortunately, investigations. You're going to have that.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure you are.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, there are a lot of animal bones scattered all across this country. Probably a lot in the state of Washington.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, we've even covered cases where they found human bones, but they weren't even related to the case that we were covering.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that's always a scary thing. On September 18, authorities announced they found remains believed to be those of Travis Dacker in a remote wooded area near Leavenworth during a search led by the U.S. marshals. The Chelin County Sheriff's Office said in a statement that while positive identification has not yet been confirmed, preliminary findings suggest the remains belong to Travis Decker. A drone detected unusual material on the mountainside, which is covered in thick vegetation. The anomaly was a shirt consistent with what Travis was wearing at the time of the murders. Authorities also found US Ranger shorts, chewing tobacco, and a bracelet. The remains were found less than a mile away and about 1,200ft above where the girls bodies were found in in terrain that is virtually uninhabitable and barely accessible. Sheriff Morrison said about the location of the remains. That's straight uphill. You're almost looking like a little over 1,000ft of elevation gain in a little bit of distance. It would take almost three hours to hike in there, just based off the terrain and the rock formation. Detectives rappelled down from a helicopter to find the remains, and they had to hike an hour to get back down. According to Morrison, all indications were that Travis died in that location a while ago. So they found the girls. Right. And then they're on this manhunt for Travis and they finally find his remains not that far from the girls, but in what the sheriff has described is a pretty strange place. Yeah, uninhabitable. You just wonder if he was so distraught over what he had done that he just made this climb and just died there.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe he wanted to watch over the site where his girls were.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you could theorize a lot of different things. What's hard not to say is that he killed his three girls. On September 24, the US Marshals Service declared Travis dead in a document filed to dismiss the case and quash the arrest warrant. This was before DNA confirmation had been completed. Cheeland county refused to drop the charges until DNA testing was completed. Whitney's attorney, Ariana Cozart, said at the time, per abc, we are praying that the remains found are confirmed to be Travis's. We continue to be grateful for law enforcement's efforts in this case and are forever appreciative of the entire world's love, compassion, and support for Whitney. On September 25, lab results confirmed that Travis Decker was dead the following day. The Chelin county coroner said an autopsy could not be completed. The few bones that were found were damaged by summer heat and animal activity. The remains were found in five areas hundreds of yards from each other, likely scattered by animals. The remains included feet, femurs, a finger, Rib bones, and parts of a spinal column, as well as clothing. The items had been there long enough to decompose. Travis's torso and cranium, which may hold the clues necessary to prove a cause of death, were not recovered. So, I mean, that's an interesting revelation, the fact that these bones were found scattered. So maybe this very strange place that was hard to get to, Maybe an animal took some of the bones there.

[Mike Gibson]

Dragged him uphill, maybe. Maybe, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe he died somewhere else. You know, it's just. It's impossible to tell. And how did he die? I mean, as the meno coroner said, really hard to tell when you don't have the chest, the torso, and the head.

[Mike Gibson]

All you can do is assume certain things.

[Mike Ferguson]

Coroner Wayne Harris said the remains were examined by a state anthropologist who determined there were no fractures indicating a fall. Sheriff Morrison revealed that he asked the lab to conduct separate tests on the remains and clothing to dispel rumors that Travis killed another person and dressed the body in his clothes. I mean, I would never even have thought about that, but it's actually quite diabolical.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to the Seattle Times, Morrison said, I would say the biggest challenge to the results was me. I appreciate them humoring me on this, but we also wanted to make sure we shut down conspiracy theorists. Mr. Decker did not bring anyone else up there and leave the remains behind. This is Mr. Decker's remains. The clothing matches. The remains match. That is the end of the conversation. Morrison credited state patrol operational psychologist Stacy Siket with directing searchers to the location where the remains were found. She highlighted an area of interest on Grindstone Mountain and. And estimated what elevation authorities should look at. And that's pretty interesting.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I was thinking that's pretty impressive.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm not sure. And the details weren't there of, you know, what was kind of going on in her mind that led her to that thought process. Morrison apologized to Whitney Decker for how long it took to find Travis and said, I hope you can rest easier at night knowing that Travis is accounted for. He also said, this has been a very dark chapter. You're looking at one of the largest manhunts in Chelin county history. One of the most horrific crimes we've seen in the county, and we're glad to put it behind us. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, the murders of Peyton Evelyn and Olivia Dacker. No doubt this was a horrific tragedy, but this case did receive a lot of attention, national attention, and it brought awareness to the issues of veterans, mental health and problems within the system. Like we said from the beginning, Right. It's a sad case. You have three young girls who lost their lives, but on top of that, they were taken by their own father, the man who was supposed to love them, protect them. And one of the toughest parts of this case for me is that we really don't know why. We don't know what happened to this man that caused him to kill his children. No doubt he was suffering through some mental health issues. He had some PTSD from his time in the military. But why all of a sudden? Why right then?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, what was the. As I said earlier, Trigger.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Or like the straw. Right. That broke the camel's back. He had been seeing his daughters through the divorce, Right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why all of a sudden?

[Mike Gibson]

And, you know, according to Whitney, those girls meant everything to him.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's why she had. She had no concerns. Now, she was worried about him. She was worried about his mental health, but she wasn't worried enough to the point where she thought in a million years, he would ever hurt them.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I think the amount of shock she went through when she found out is unmeasurable.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm sure it is. And. And, you know, if people are blaming her, I think that's. That's really tough. That's a really tough thing to do. But that's it for our episode on the Decker Girls. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Darian]

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Darian calling from New York. I have been leaving you quite a few voicemails. Kind of just updating you on where I am on this very long journey of catching up to your current podcast on Unsolved. Last time I called, I think I just finished the Hoffa case. Mind the beeping. I'm pulling a Gibby and don't have a seatbelt on. Sue me. But I just wanted to update you. I'm on episode 111, the Cowden family murders. Very sad. And just off topic, I also have a basset hound. We call her a bass hole because those dogs are the A word. They're a holes. Her name is Ruthie and I named all my pets kind of like mafia style. So her name is Ruthie the Ruthless blue. Very fitting. That dog is literally is the only dog that has ever jumped up on a table to get or to the chair to get onto the table and eat whatever garbage Surfer likes to eat. Poop out of diapers. Disgusting. Disgusting dog. I would never get one again. So kind of just funny that these people had one. And yeah, no, my dog wouldn't do well in the woods. She is scared of her own shadow. So if I was to ever take her hunting. Yeah, we're not. We're not gonna have a good hunting day. But anyway, I just wanted to call you and update you. I wish you guys a very merry Christmas and happy New Year. If I don't call back. Thank you again for all the hard work you do on your podcast and stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Bye.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, thanks for the voicemail and thanks for the. The holiday wishes. We appreciate it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I've been described as a basset hound before. Just like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Not.

[Mike Gibson]

Not.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think you had the second word right. I don't think you had the first word right.

[Mike Gibson]

Did I mess it up?

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe? I don't know. Oh either. No, no, that's the name of the dog. I just don't think that's what you were called. Oh. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking it. Pluto TV is free with all the best movies. The holidays are brutal. Stream Pluto TV streaming Pluto TV for free.

[Mike Gibson]

Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street Ted, the Expendables, and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream now pay.

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