The Jack Family Disappearance

Summary

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True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode 408: The Jack Family Disappearance

Release Date: March 31, 2025
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson delve into the mysterious 1989 disappearance of the Jack family—Ronald (Ronnie), Doreen, and their young sons, Russell and Ryan—in British Columbia, Canada. The hosts examine the family’s background, the context of their disappearance, the investigation’s challenges, and the enduring heartbreak of those left behind. Throughout, they underscore the troubling pattern of missing and murdered Indigenous people receiving insufficient media coverage and investigative resources.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction of the Jack Family and Context

• Family Background:
  • Ronnie and Doreen Jack, both 26 at disappearance, Indigenous members of the Chesloda Carrier Nation.
  • Two sons: Russell (9) and Ryan (4).
  • Moved to Prince George for work; financial hardship due to Ronnie’s back injury.
• Indigenous Experience:
  • Discussion on the abuse Indigenous children, including Doreen and her siblings, faced in Canadian residential schools.
    • “This is the systematic treatment of a race of people that happened to them for years and years and years.” — Mike Ferguson [07:03]
    • Marlene Jack (Doreen’s sister) recalled: “They tell you every day that you'll amount to nothing. It sort of sticks with you and you just don't care about yourself the way you should.” [07:52]

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2. Lead-Up to the Disappearance

• Family’s Financial Desperation:
  • Reliance on welfare; Doreen once stole cough medicine for her sons.
    • “It's hard to look down on a parent stealing cough medicine to help out their small child.” — Mike Ferguson [11:16]
• Job Offer from a Stranger:
  • August 1, 1989: Ronnie meets a white man (35–40, 6’–6’6”, 200–275 lbs, red checkered shirt) at the First Leader Pub.
  • Stranger offered logging jobs for Ronnie and Doreen, “with daycare” for the boys, and volunteered to drive them to the site near Klukall’s Lake.
  • Ronnie calls family to share the news—mother Mabel, brother, expressing hope and caution (“if you don’t hear from me, come looking”). [18:06–18:50]

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3. Timeline of Disappearance

• Night of August 1–2, 1989:
  • At ~1:20am, neighbors saw the family get into a dark-colored 4x4 and drive off.
  • This was the last sighting. No further word from the Jacks.
    • “And this is the family's last known actions per the RCMP. They were never seen or heard from again.” — Mike Ferguson [19:03]

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4. The Investigation: Immediate Challenges

• Reporting Missing:

  • Not reported until August 25 due to lack of contact and their stated plan to be away for 10 days.

• Early Police Missteps:

  • September 7, 1989: RCMP announced (falsely) the family had been located; later retracted.
    • “This is absolutely false…heartbreaking…there is no explanation for why or how this false report was published.” — Mike Ferguson [23:22]

• No Evidence of Voluntary Departure:

  • Furniture, clothing, and children’s school records left behind.
    • “It's not like they decided to move away.” — Mike Gibson [21:19]

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5. Theories, Suspect, and Investigation Developments

• Main Suspect:

  • The unknown man from the pub remains the central figure.
    • “The stranger who offered Ronnie the job…remains the prime suspect.” — Mike Ferguson [32:40]

• Anonymous Tip (1996):

  • Seven years later, a brief call tells RCMP “The Jack family are buried in the south end of [blank] Ranch.”
  • Tip traced to a house party in Vanderhoof—unclear if credible or a hoax.
    • “It’s strange…almost like somebody is feeling guilty. It's, like, been weighing on them.” — Mike Gibson [28:05]

• Composite Sketch Discrepancies:

  • Two witnesses in late ‘80s and ’90s gave information, possibly explaining variations in the suspect’s physical description.

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6. Family & Community Efforts

• Advocacy and Pain:

  • Marlene Jack steadfast in seeking answers and advocating for missing Indigenous women and girls.
    • “I love my sister with all my heart. I miss her. I'm not giving up. I'm not stopping and I'm not going away.” — Marlene Jack [44:58]

• Additional Tragedy:

  • 2005: Ronnie’s father, Cazumel Thomas Jack, went missing while hunting. Despite a large search, no trace found—compounded the family’s grief.

• Ongoing Searches & Leads:

  • 2018 onward: RCMP appeals, renewed searches, and community-led efforts near Highway 16 (“Highway of Tears”) failed to locate evidence but underscored persistent hope.
  • Use of age-progressed images and volunteer-organized digs as recently as June 2024.

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7. Theories & Broader Issues

• Most Likely Scenario:

  • Foul play involving the stranger—possibly targeting, financial motivation (Ronnie owed undisclosed debts), opportunity for exploitation or serial offense.
    • “It could have gone down a number of different ways. But anyone with information is asked to call...” — Mike Ferguson [48:53]

• Unlikelihood of Voluntary Disappearance:

  • Hosts dismiss the notion the family fled by choice, citing poverty and family bonds.
    • “A family who was struggling so badly financially is just going to leave behind the few things that they do have of value. That doesn't make any sense.” — Mike Ferguson [47:09]

• Importance of Visibility for Indigenous Victims:

  • Episode crafted in part to highlight lack of coverage for missing Indigenous families and systemic neglect.
    • “Indigenous people deserve as much coverage as anyone else and maybe more, considering what's gone on in that area.” — Mike Ferguson [50:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Systemic Abuse:
  “This is the systematic treatment of a race of people that happened to them for years and years and years.”
  — Mike Ferguson [07:03]

• On Desperation & Choices:
  “It’s hard to look down on a parent stealing cough medicine to help out their small child.”
  — Mike Ferguson [11:16]

• On Gut Feeling and Parental Intuition:
  “If your child, even though this is an adult, says to you, hey…if you don’t hear from me, come looking…You might be on edge a little bit.”
  — Mike Ferguson [19:09]

• On the Callousness of Hoaxers:
  “What are those people getting out of doing that? I just never understand it.”
  — Mike Ferguson [29:01]

• On “Highway of Tears”:
  “That area…because of all the women, many of them Indigenous, who have gone missing in this area.”
  — Mike Ferguson [44:07]

• On Persistence:
  “I'm not giving up. I'm not stopping and I'm not going away. I'm going to be here.”
  — Marlene Jack [44:58]

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Important Timeline Timestamps

• [03:56] Case Introduction: Jack family details and background
• [05:12–08:25] Residential school abuse and cultural context
• [13:48] The offer at the pub and circumstances around the job proposition
• [17:23] Ronnie calls family members about the job
• [19:03] Last sighting—family leaves home with stranger
• [22:24] Police announce (incorrectly) the family is safe
• [28:05] 1996 anonymous tip: potential burial site
• [32:40] Suspect composite sketches and investigative challenges
• [36:03] Father’s subsequent disappearance in 2005
• [41:27] RCMP declare lack of evidence but treat as homicide
• [43:00] Volunteer searches and age progression in 2024
• [44:58] Marlene Jack’s determination and final appeals

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Host Reflections & Tone

Ferguson and Gibson maintain their trademark blend of approachable banter and deep sensitivity for victims’ stories. They emphasize the personal toll on the Jack family’s surviving relatives, the daunting investigative hurdles, and the lasting injustice obscuring the truth. There is a recurring call for broader attention to cases involving missing Indigenous people—and for anyone with knowledge to come forward.

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Resources and Contact Information

Anyone with information about the Jack family disappearance is urged to contact:

• Prince George RCMP: 250-561-3300
• Crime Stoppers (anonymous): 1-800-222-8477 or pgcrimestoppers.bc.ca

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“It's incredible that a whole family can disappear off the face of the earth.”— Staff Sgt. Ron Poulta [45:25]

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Transcript

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[Sam]

Sam.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 408 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great. You and I are on a marathon recording. We are session tonight.

[Mike Gibson]

And you're using my Gibby AI app for me to be here because Gibby's really not here right now.

[Mike Ferguson]

Gibby's doing one of his shows. So I'm using AI. But you know, we, we just recorded a Patreon episode which will drop Saturday. It'll be out by the time this episode drops. But it's an interesting one that goes back to like the, the 1850s.

[Mike Gibson]

It's got a little love triangle going on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's, there's a Swiss woman, an Irishman and an Englishman. And this love triangle kind of led to the, one of the most infamous murders in British history, a case that became known as the Berman Horror. So if you're on Patreon, check that out. If you're not, it's a great time to sign up.

[Mike Gibson]

It. It plays today.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. The aspects of why the, the murder occurred is something you would see in, in a headline today. We also have a brand new episode out of True Crime all the Time where we're talking about Johnny Lewis. And Johnny Lewis was an actor who actually had a really good part on Sons of Anarchy and he was on a bunch of other shows. He dated Katy Perry for a while. I mean, he was kind of a teen heartthrob at one time, and then he suffered a motorcycle accident and his life spiraled downward.

[Mike Gibson]

Really sad.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, really sad. And he ended up committing a murder and a bunch of other crimes. And, you know, there's questions about why he did it, but it's a, it's a fascinating case for sure. All right, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Ms. Luna Jo.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Ms. Luna.

[Mike Ferguson]

Candace Williams.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, Candace.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sophia Nicholson.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Nicholson.

[Mike Ferguson]

Charlie Duff.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Duff?

[Mike Ferguson]

Mark Cameron.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Cameron.

[Mike Ferguson]

Diana Reynolds.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Diana.

[Mike Ferguson]

Vicki. Adolf.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Vicki?

[Mike Ferguson]

Brett Ford.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Brett.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lori jumped out to our highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

Lori, look at you go.

[Mike Ferguson]

Amber Trettine.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Amber.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Jerry Taylor.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Taylor.

[Mike Ferguson]

And we go back into the vault. This week we selected Christopher O.

[Mike Gibson]

And Christopher.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, Appreciate all the support. We also had a couple of great PayPal donations from Paul Miller.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, Miller.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Kim Long.

[Mike Gibson]

And there's Long.

[Mike Ferguson]

So thank you to everyone. All right, buddy, Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime? All the Time unsolved.

[Mike Gibson]

I am set.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about the Jack family disappearance. In the early morning hours of August 2, 1989, the Jack family got into a vehicle driven by a stranger who offered them temporary jobs at a logging camp in Canada's British Columbia province. They were never seen or heard from again. Over 30 years later, the case remains unresolved and the suspect is still unidentified. Ronald Jack, who went by the nickname Ronnie, was born on March 29, 1963. Doreen Jack was born on April 24, 1963. They were both 26 years old at the time of their disappearance. Ronnie and Doreen were members of the Chesloda Carrier Nation, an indigenous first nation based at South Bank, British Columbia.

[Mike Gibson]

Man, British Columbia. Such beautiful land over there.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is absolutely gorgeous. And you and I have done a number of cases involving indigenous persons.

[Mike Gibson]

We have.

[Mike Ferguson]

My thought is they don't get enough coverage. We need to keep doing them. People need to do more of them.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Doreen's sister Marlene has described the physical and sexual abuse she experienced growing up. Now, she didn't explicitly state that Doreen was abused, but she did say, they need to understand how we grew up and the violence that we had to go through. After Doreen and her sisters attended the Le Jack residential school as children, Canadian residential schools were boarding schools for indigenous children created to isolate them from their culture and religion to assimilate them into Euro Canadian culture.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, this has been a pretty talked about story. Now this has really been in the media the last few years about how these people were treated.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, I, I don't. It's been a while. I mean, obviously people know that this happened. You know, one of the, the more recent examples that I thought really did a pretty good job, I believe, of depicting how deplorable it was was the show 1923. You know, in that show, they had some, some Girls living in like a place run by a priest and some nuns. And they sp. Specifically said they were trying to erase their culture.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't seen it, but there's one girl who wasn't having it.

[Mike Gibson]

Nope.

[Mike Ferguson]

Marlene Jack described how she was treated at the residential school. The CBC quoted her as saying that students were told how we're going to be so useless for seven years. Every day we hear that.

[Mike Gibson]

How tragic is that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's very sad. First of all, to put someone down, to demean them in a school setting is unacceptable. But this goes way beyond that. This is the systematic treatment of a race of people that happened to them for years and years and years. Right. You could have a. A bad teacher one year who is demeaning or something like that. You have a bad coach. But this is an entire system.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Meant to put them down and demean them for their entire school life. I mean, it's just hard to imagine that this existed.

[Mike Gibson]

But it did for a long time.

[Mike Ferguson]

For a long time. Marlene added, they tell you every day that you'll amount to nothing. It sort of sticks with you and you just don't care about yourself the way you should. And I think that's true in any setting. Right. If you've got a parent who is just constantly telling a kid you're no good, you're no good, you're never going to amount to anything. Eventually certain people start to believe that.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. You know, the people of authority around me, they're telling me this. They, they must be right.

[Mike Ferguson]

After the residential school closed in 1976, Doreen began attending a live in Catholic high school where she met Ronnie Jack. They eventually stopped seeing each other. Doreen was 17 when her son Russell was born on February 28, 1980. Two years later, Doreen and Ronnie rekindled their relationship. The couple moved in with Ronnie's parents after Doreen's father died, according to Ronnie's mother, Mabel. Mabel said the two were high school sweethearts and were close with each other. They treated each other well and there weren't any known issues in their relationship. He treated Russell like his own son. Doreen and Ronnie had a child they named Ryan, who was born on July 26, 1985. Russell and Ryan were just 9 and 4, respectively, when they went missing. The Jack family eventually relocated from south bank to Prince George, British Columbia for better work opportunities. By 1989, they were struggling financially. Ronnie had been out of work for a while due to a back injury. And the family relied on welfare.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a tough go.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it is. Especially, you know, when someone is working what you would say are lower paying labor type jobs without a lot of benefits and stability in regards to if you get hurt. A back injury can be devastating.

[Mike Gibson]

It really can.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not only physically, but for your family's financial situation.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, they have two little boys needing things. Makes it tough.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now, if you work a desk job, maybe you're able to work through that, but if your entire day is lifting and doing all that, no, you're not going to be able to.

[Mike Gibson]

And we both had back injuries. When you have them severe. Some days you can't even get out of bed.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. They can be very debilitating. By August 1989, they were in a dire financial situation. Both Ronnie and Doreen were desperate to find work. At one point, Doreen allegedly stole cough medicine for her children because they couldn't afford to buy any.

[Mike Gibson]

That's really sad.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. Now, cough medicine is relatively expensive, to be honest with you, but I think it does show you their financial situation. And, you know, it's. It's like the. The old story of the person who steals bread. Right. To feed their family.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't condone stealing.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's hard to look down on a parent stealing cough medicine to help out their small child. It really is.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, look, if we were ever in that position, we would do whatever we had to to make our kids comfortable.

[Sam]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I often think that way. I'm not a criminal.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if I had to do something criminal to either save my family from starving to death or from dying from being sick or whatever it was, I would probably do it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ronnie asked his mother for money and told her he was in debt to someone. She couldn't get him the money before he went missing. Now, unfortunately, sources don't say who Ronnie owed money to or how much it was.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know what? When you're not working and you have kids, sometimes you can fall into that trap where you're borrowing money from somebody that maybe you shouldn't borrow money from.

[Mike Ferguson]

Less than reputable.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And has questionable collection tactics.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. They're going to be less forgiving about the reasons why you cannot pay them back.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I want to talk about, you know, Ronnie's mom for a minute. It sounds like maybe she was going to try to get him the money, but couldn't put it together before he went missing. I mean, what kind of guilt do you have there? I'm not saying it's founded, but it's going to be tough not to experience it.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, if you think the reason they went missing is because of the money, then yeah, you're going to have guilt. Like, if I could have just got them the money sooner, maybe that would have changed what happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So you have that on top of the fact that you have a missing loved one. One of Doreen's sisters claimed she witnessed Ronald striking Dorian more than once. And Doreen began drinking heavily. On the night of August 1, 1989, Ronnie went to the First Leader Pub about four blocks from their home. He met a stranger who offered him a short term job at a logging camp or ranch thought to be near Klukall's Lake in British Columbia, about 40 km away from their home. There were some sources that implied Doreen was also present, but most seem to agree that only Ronnie was at the pub that night.

[Mike Gibson]

Which kind of makes sense because she was probably home with the kids. Somebody had to watch the little ones.

[Mike Ferguson]

So this stranger, you know, he made Ronnie an offer that might have sounded too good to be true to some people. But you have to think about the situation that Ronnie was in, right? He's stressed about money, he needs to find work. So are you going to maybe take someone up on something that normally you would question? Yeah, maybe. You're more likely.

[Mike Gibson]

I think so. It's a, it's a break finally, right? You've been trying to find a job.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because it doesn't sound like they've gotten too many breaks.

[Mike Gibson]

No, they haven't.

[Mike Ferguson]

At this point, he offered Ronnie a job bucking logs and Doreen a job in the camp kitchen. The man told him there would even be daycare for the boys. When he learned that the Jacks didn't have a car, he offered to drive them to the job site. Ronnie accepted his offer. And I actually don't know what bucking logs is. Have you ever bucked any logs?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I buck some logs.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. I have to look that up. I should have looked it up beforehand. I have no idea what that is. Something in the timber logging industry. The fact that you've done it doesn't surprise me at all though.

[Mike Gibson]

I think you could be a real bucker if you wanted to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe. Based on witness descriptions, the suspect was a white man, 35 to 40 years old, with reddish brown hair and a full beard. He was 6 foot to 6 foot 6 and weighed 200 to 275 pounds.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's a big difference, I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I do too. Now, for me, weight is a little tougher to gauge. Right. Some people carry their weight differently. I'm often surprised to find out somebody weighs less than what I think or more than what I think. But there's a big difference between six foot and six foot six. Yeah, I mean I'm six two and a person who's six foot six is. Even though it's, it's four inches, it's quite noticeable. Yes, it's pretty tall. He was wearing a ball cap, a red checkered work shirt, faded blue jeans, a blue nylon jacket and work boots with leather fringes over the toes. Ronnie went home to tell Doreen about the job opportunity to. They were going to leave that night.

[Mike Gibson]

That's pretty quick.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So here's a, here's something that, you know, we said it right, might seem too good to be true to some people. Does the timing factor in there as well?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to question when something has to happen so quick but. But we don't know the back story either. Maybe the guy was like, hey, I had somebody, they backed out the last minute. Yeah, I got a crew coming. This, I need a bucker and I need somebody in the camp, working the camp. You want to do it? We leave tonight.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I agree with you. It cracks me up. You keep saying bucker as though you know what this means or what it is. But.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I was a top bucker.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you were. But I also go back to just the kind of the dire straits that they were in. And it's almost as if, you know, what choice did they have at this point? How can you pass up this opportunity when you know you just can't even scrape by?

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

First Ronnie called his brother at 11:16pm to tell him about the camp job. He asked if his brother could watch the boys while they worked, but he couldn't. Two hours later, around 1am Ronnie called his parents house and spoke to his mother, Maple. He told her about the job opportunity. He said he and Doreen were going to work for 10 days before returning home. He said they would be back in time for Russell to start school in September. So this is not a long term gig. No, I mean this is a short opportunity, but it's an opportunity to make some money that they desperately need.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's an opportunity for them to get up there like you said and make some, maybe some quick cash, come back and get a little kickstart or.

[Mike Ferguson]

At the very least sustain them for a period of time as they're still searching for maybe permanent employ. But it does sound like Ronnie was pretty excited about it. I mean, he's calling all these people, right? His brother. His mother, Mabel told the Burns Lake district news in 2022. I was the last one to speak to Ronnie. And he said to me, mom, I'm going to work near Klukol's Lake, and if you don't hear from me, come looking. And something felt wrong about this whole thing.

[Mike Gibson]

It's like a mom's instinct, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Intuition, Right. We've talked about mother's intuition before. But I do think, you know, if your child, even though this is an adult, says to you, hey, I'm going to this place, if you don't hear from me, come looking. And they're not joking. Okay. You might be on edge a little bit.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think she was getting the sense that, you know, something wasn't right. Maybe it's. It's because of that statement. Why would you make the statement if you don't yourself have at least a little bit of concerns about what you're about ready to get into?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, like wanting to jot the plate number down, maybe get a copy of the guy's driver's license. But you don't think about things like that when you're in this position.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. No. And again, it's 1989. Yeah, right. We're not tracking people on their cell phones, GPS, anything like that. Soon after making this call, around 1:20am neighbors saw the entire family getting into a dark colored 4x4 pickup truck, presumably driven by the stranger. And this is the family's last known actions per the rcmp. They were never seen or heard from again. And I'm surprised there were Neighbors up at 1:20am to witness this.

[Mike Gibson]

That's what I was thinking. Like, who are they?

[Mike Ferguson]

They outside looking through their windows? I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I know you're up late, but you know, how many people.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I'm not looking out the window to see what's going on outside. After more than 10 days passed without any word from Ronnie or Doreen, Ronnie's parents reported the family missing on August 25, 1989. Mabel spoke to a neighbor who said she saw the family getting into a vehicle and driving away. And, you know, a lot of people might think, well, you know, 10 days or more passed before reporting them missing, but they said they were going to be gone for 10 days. And my assumption is, Gibbs, Mabel had no way to get in touch with her son. Yeah, no Cell phones?

[Mike Gibson]

Nope.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I get it. I think it would be hard to call the police until the 10 days have passed and they haven't returned. The police searched the house and found most of their furniture and clothing still there, as well as the children's school records.

[Mike Gibson]

So it's not like they decided to move away.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think you rule that out. Right. They didn't up and down, just leave as as far as a permanent move. They would have taken some of those things with them.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, they left, what, the early morning of August 2nd. The mom reported them missing on the 24th. So it's been a while. And you think they would have been home by now to get the kids ready for school?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And now that I think about it, I did say it was more than 10 days. And it was more than 10 days, but it was quite a bit more than 10 days, Gibbs. It was 20 some days. So, you know, maybe you do question a little bit. I hate to put that on the victim's family. Right. Hey, why didn't you call sooner? But, you know, it's. It's a question as to why they didn't. On September 7, 1989, the Prince George RCMP incorrectly reported that the family was found and the investigation was briefly closed.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man. That's got to be difficult for family members to hear.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. The Lake District News reported at the time a local family has been found safe and sound after they were reported missing four weeks ago. Ron and Doreen, Jack and their two sons recently contacted Prince George RCMP to let them know they were all right. August 30, Prince George RCMP publicized the fact that they were missing, and when it came to Jack's attention that they were being sought, they contacted police and Ron's father to let them know they were okay. Now, I mean, it's heartbreaking because this is absolutely false. I think the struggle that you and I had was that the sources used for this episode didn't provide in any way an explanation for why or how this false report was published, but tragic either way.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, come on, why would this report get out? And what does that do to friends and family of the. Of the. Of the Jack family?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and I. I get it, right? If the police inadvertently told the press this, and then the press put it out, but it also said they contacted Ron's father. Yeah, that would be easy to corroborate. Get a hold of Ron's father and double check, but that didn't happen. In 1990, a televised reenactment of the disappearance was broadcast on the Prince George station, CKPG tv, but the station did not reach the area where the family was believed to have disappeared.

[Mike Gibson]

So it doesn't really help, does it?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it doesn't hurt, but it's not that helpful. Yeah, I agree with you there. Now, could there be someone in the area where it did reach that knew something about it and maybe that would spark them to come forward? That's a possibility, sure. But you would really like for it to reach the area where they disappear. But I get the sense that this is a pretty remote area. So we've mentioned it. Right. This was a time before a lot of the technology, especially what we have now with tracking capabilities and widespread cctv. So the police had almost no leads to go on and the case went cold.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think it's one of those tough cases for investigators to try to get going. Pretty limited information.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So where do you start? Right. Obviously, you talk to the neighbors who witness them leave early in the morning. So what do you get from that? Maybe a description of the truck. They have a description of this man, but it's pretty broad and varying.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, you can go down the bar for a while every now and then and check and see if you can see somebody that matches that description, which I'm sure you probably pull three or four guys out a night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Thinking that maybe this person came back to the same bar. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, just not a lot to go on. And I think in a case like this, pretty easy to go cold because, you know, where do you start? Where do you go next? You just. There's no roadmap laid out for you of where to check. I'm assuming they investigated around this lake, but again, probably a pretty big area, remote, have no idea if they even had an inkling where this camp was thought to have been. Yeah, that's assuming there was a camp. And, you know, if this was a ruse, then there was no camp anyway.

[Mike Gibson]

And who knows what direction they went.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. So if there's no camp and they don't actually even go to the lake, searching out there or talking to people out there is going to give you nothing. The RCMP received an unexpected leak on January 28, 1996. That morning, a man called the Vanderhoof RCMP station with the following message. The Jack family are buried in the south end of Blank Ranch. Now, sources didn't include the name of the ranch, most likely to protect the investigation, but obviously police had it. The call lasted about 10 seconds and the caller hung up as soon as the dispatcher began to question him. The voice recording was analyzed by the University of British Columbia, but no significant revelations came from the analysis. So let's kind of break this down. I'm always fascinated by communications in any type of case, whether that be a letter written by the supposed killer or in this case, a phone call. Now, they're not saying they're the killer. They're just providing information. But this is information that is extremely close to the case. How do they know that? And that's assuming that this is even true. Does that mean that they're the person who's responsible for what happened to the Jack family? Or did they overhear something? We don't know. And it could be a hoax. We see that all the time.

[Mike Gibson]

But it's strange. It's like seven years later and they're getting this call. Almost like somebody is feeling guilty. It's, like, been weighing on them. And, like, I just got to tell somebody.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, you and I have gone back and forth on that. Does somebody's, you know, conscience finally get to them, or do they have a falling out with the person, let's say, was their accomplice in this crime and they've turned on him? I mean, you could drum up a few different scenarios where it makes sense as to why it happened so many years later. The thing that I can never understand is why so many people want to mess with the police and the families with information that later turns out to be completely false.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, what are those people getting out of doing that? I just never understand it. I also think, you know, analyzing, like the voice recording.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That type of stuff fascinates me.

[Mike Gibson]

It does.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe you hear something in the background that kind of clues you in as to where the call was made from. Maybe hear some type of bird that is only found in a certain area. Who knows?

[Mike Gibson]

I always like how they show it on the. At least in the movies, how they start isolating all these different sounds, and you're like, what are they doing? And then. Then they just concentrate on this sound of this train. Right. Or like you said, this bird or whatever. So they say, well, that's. That's like that. That's the L train.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's the 3:10 to Yuma. And it, you know, it only runs right through here. The police didn't announce the lead until March 1996, when they appealed for the caller to come forward and talk to them. An RCMP officer said, per the province, we're not prepared to say exactly what that information was at this time. But I can tell you that we wouldn't be going to all this trouble if it wasn't credible. Some kind of tragedy has definitely befallen this family, and we have to think the worst. Okay, so they didn't wait too long. Right. A few months to announce it.

[Mike Gibson]

That's saying something, though, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, when you come out and say we wouldn't be going to all this trouble if it wasn't credible, that means something. The problem is, they don't elaborate on why they think it's credible. But there's got to be something behind that statement. But as far as the public knows, the man has not contacted the police since 1996.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe he can't, for who knows what reason.

[Mike Ferguson]

The police were eventually able to trace the call to a house in Vanderhoof, where a house party took place within the time frame of the call. So, I mean, if you got a house party, does that lean towards someone who's credible or someone messing with the police?

[Mike Gibson]

I think you could look at it both ways.

[Mike Ferguson]

I agree with you.

[Mike Gibson]

Because, again, this is like, seven years later when this call is made. So could it be somebody that said, this is the opportunity for me to call? Not my phone. I can call, say what I need to say, I'll feel better.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's a whole bunch of people here.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. There's no way they can tie it back to me, and so I'll make the call. Or maybe they were out sitting around the campfire and someone. Remember that time? Remember what we did seven years ago? I still can't. I still can't sleep. I can't believe we did that. And it, you know, brought it back up, and somebody's like, you know what?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm gonna call. Or you got a bunch of kids or younger people at a house party who are like, let's mess with the police.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know?

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

I agree with you. I could see it happening both ways. Over the decades, the RCMP has conducted hundreds of interviews and obtained thousands of documents related to the case. They've also searched several properties in connection with the case. Two witnesses contributed to the suspect description and composite sketch. One in 1989 and one in 1990. And maybe, Gibbs, that's why there's a disparity or such a wide range in the description, because you have two different people who came forward.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that makes good sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

The stranger who offered Ronnie the job at the logging camp remains the prime suspect in the family's disappearance. And I Think if you're the authorities, I don't know how you could think any other way.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you kind of have to, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You have a person who in a bar says, hey, I got this great opportunity, but we gotta leave tonight. And, you know, your wife's got a job. They even have someone who look after the kids. It's almost like a perfect storm where the person is gathering up the entire family and there's really no reason they all can't come.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then the fact that these people are never heard from again. And when it's all over the news, the person who offered the job never comes forward and says, hey, I'm that person. But, you know, I took them, they worked for the 10 days, and then they left, or anything like that.

[Mike Gibson]

So as a bad person, why would that person do that? Is it to just to kill the family? Is it to maybe kill the parents and traffic the kids? Is it like, why? Why would they want to do this?

[Mike Ferguson]

I think it's part of the mystery.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, the why behind it. You know, it could be a serial killer, a person who just wants to.

[Mike Gibson]

Kill just for the enjoyment of it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. They get something out of killing. Now, you could go down other avenues as well. It could be someone who, for whatever reason, maybe developed a fascination with Doreen and this was an elaborate setup. But, you know, you would think there. There maybe would be. I don't want to say easier, because that makes it sound bad, but other ways to get to her if she was the prime target. But I don't know, because it's such a strange scenario.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, the other thing I was thinking is maybe something that happened at camp that went wrong, you know, an accident or something criminal, and the only way to cover it up was to remove the family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You know, there wasn't a ton of reporting on this case, but we wanted to still do it because I think it's a very important case. You know, we said it up front. You know, I think missing indigenous persons don't get the coverage that they deserve. And you and I have come to learn that over the years. Unfortunately, it does mean also that there's less reporting on it, so you have less facts.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

So did the police go out to this area, talk to people? Did they determine whether there was even a mining camp there at all or a logging camp? You would think that's something they would try to do. You would hope, but couldn't find anything about it. Yeah. And is that part of the tragedy as well? We talk about, you know, certain people not getting the coverage they deserve when they disappear. Well, maybe they don't get the reporting either.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a good point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sadly, the Jack family experienced another tragedy on September 18, 2005, when Mabel, Jack's husband, Cazumel Thomas Jack, went missing. He was 70 years old at the time. He left home at 8am to go Moose hunting near Uncle Lake and was supposed to return at 10am he was reported missing. When he had not returned by 10pm the police conducted an extensive search. A police dog was brought in but was unable to pick up a scent. A plane and an RCMP helicopter were utilized in the search, and over 100 people volunteered to help. None of Cazumel's personal belongings were found in the search area.

[Mike Gibson]

So another tough time on the family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and specifically, you know, Ronnie's mother, Mabel, she doesn't know where her son is, her grandchildren, and now her husband's gone missing. That's a lot for one person to endure.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Years later, a man approached Mabel with what he claimed was her husband's knife. He said her husband gave it to him years earlier. But Mabel does not think this is true because the knife was his prized possession and he wouldn't have just given it away to someone.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's like me, you know, I wouldn't give my knife away just to somebody.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, no. First of all, it's got way too much incriminating evidence on it. Well, there's that, but if he didn't give the knife away willingly, what's that mean? That possibly this man had something to do with his disappearance and then took the knife off him?

[Sam]

Maybe.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 2018, investigators with the Prince George RCMP renewed calls for information, specifically seeking the anonymous tipster who they believe could have useful information. According to the cbc, the tipster provided information to a third party by phone and mail, which was then passed to investigators. The RCMP did not say when this occurred or what the information was in order to protect the investigation. So there's a lot here that's not being disclosed. Right. Obviously, they keep saying in order to protect the investigation.

[Mike Gibson]

But see, at this point, because it's been so long, I question that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's a. It's a fine line, right, that the authorities have to. To walk, you know, what do we withhold so that we can confirm a suspect is telling the truth and what do we disclose to the public in order to help them help us solve this case?

[Mike Gibson]

But I think if you let that information out, people might say, oh, I know something about that. Or they could say, oh, someone finally told them that, now I can go ahead and tell them the rest of what happened. You just never know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think you and I agree on that. You know, the more time that goes by, you would think the more information would be revealed that might bring about closure to the case. But again, I don't know how you make that decision. In recent years, Marlene Jack has become the primary advocate for her missing family. She testified about the case during hearings at Canada's national inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. In September 2017, Marlene said she was told the police would stop giving her updates on the investigation if she spoke to the media. But as time passed, she connected with other families of missing or murdered women and joined them in advocating for the national inquiry.

[Mike Gibson]

And I would hope that the police would never do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, if they really said that now, it didn't say that they directly said that to her, and it just said she was told that. And that could have been someone else saying, hey, you know, if you go do this, the police are going to stop giving you updates. Yeah, but if the police actually told her that, that's wrong. Yeah, that's right. In July 2019, a small team of RCMP officers traveled to a site off Highway 16 for a search. Marlene told the CBC that the search produced promising results and the investigation would continue following that same lead, with further work taking place at an undisclosed location in coming weeks. Marlene called it a huge step because it had been nine years since the last search.

[Mike Gibson]

And I think it's a big step. Right. I mean, 2019, that's a long time since they went missing.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's 30 years, right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. So what are they going to find? What are they looking for?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I mean, I don't imagine you're going to find much in the way of evidence. Yeah. After 30 years, sadly, you're probably looking for remain.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Recovery.

[Mike Ferguson]

Recovery at that point. But even that would be something for the family.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

From Aug. 28 to Aug. 30, 2019, the RCMP searched a portion of the Saka's First Nation reserve, but found no evidence. After the search, the RCMP announced they don't have any specific evidence to conclude the family met with foul play, but they are treating this as a homicide until proven otherwise. And I think that's the way to do it. I don't know why you wouldn't do it that way. I get it. You have no evidence of foul play. You don't really have evidence of anything.

[Mike Gibson]

No, you don't.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you had evidence, the investigation might propel itself forward.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's the problem in some of these cases that go so very cold. But how can you not think that this is a homicide until something proves it's not? Marlene Jack said that there was more to be followed up on with the information she had about the most recent lead in search. And she told the CBC this information is just too accurate to ignore.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, kind of like how that sounds, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I like how it sounds too. The question is, is Marlene wanting it to be information that is going to break the case wide open? And I'm sure she is. Now, whether it really is accurate, I don't know. Or is she just so longing for it to be?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I think that's a little bit above it. Right. Just really wants to know what happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

To the family in 2020. Advocates from the Unidentified Human Remains Canada group created age progressed photos of the family showing what they may look like decades later. In June 2024, Marlene Jack and volunteers held a community led search at Willow river east of Prince George. Volunteers brought in dogs and an excavator, but the search didn't turn up any new evidence. I mean, the one thing I will say, Gibbs, is they haven't given up.

[Mike Gibson]

No, they haven't.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, this is 35 years later, still turning dirt. The RCMP issued a news release in response to the search that stated the Our investigators have been in recent contact with the organizers of this search and are aware of their efforts. However, the information we have been provided on the search location is not sufficient for us to attend in an investigational capacity.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Family members posted on social media asking for volunteers saying the search was prompted by new information, but they didn't give further details. As reported by the Vancouver sun, the searchers were looking in an area off Highway 16, which has become known as the highway of Tears because of all the women, many of them indigenous, who have gone missing in this area.

[Mike Gibson]

And we know that area well.

[Mike Ferguson]

We covered that case and a couple of other cases that have happened, you know, along that area. Marlene told the CBC in 2024, I love my sister with all my heart. I miss her. I'm not giving up. I'm not stopping and I'm not going away. I'm going to be here. If anyone has any information, I'm here. And that tugs at the old heartstrings.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure does.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Because you have a sister who just wants to know and she'll do anything and will never give up. B.C. major Crimes Unit Staff Sgt. Ron Poulta also told the CBC, we're appealing to the community and anyone with any information to come forward. It's incredible that a whole family can disappear off the face of the earth.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, it is. You're talking four people.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Gone.

[Mike Ferguson]

But as we've seen time and time again in a remote area, how hard is it to hide bodies? Now, we don't know that that's what happened, but it has in many cases, eventually, sometimes they're unearthed either by accident by animals or something like that. But I think a lot of that depends on where the burial sites are and how remote the area is. And a lot of that. It is extremely rare. Right. For an entire family to go missing without a trace. But 35 years later, what happened to the Jack family remains unknown. While it's possible they left and started a new life somewhere, their families and investigators believe there was foul play involved. And the man who offered them a job could be responsible.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, think about it, right? Definitely could have been foul play. Could have been some tragic accident where the bodies just can't be recovered.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe the family said, ah, let's get out of here and let's head east, south, north, whatever, and get a new start. Let's not worry about going back home and getting that stuff. I think that's unlikely because I don't think Doreen would not want to make contact with her sister and the Jack family as a whole. Making contact with her family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, you know, here's my thought on that. A family who was struggling so badly financially is just going to leave behind the few things that they do have of value. That doesn't make any sense.

[Mike Gibson]

It doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

So not to say that it couldn't happen, it doesn't make a ton of sense. The foul play angle, I think you would agree, is what really makes the most sense here. And, yes, the man who offered them the job has to be looked at is the. The most likely suspect, whoever that person is. The real question is why? Let's assume that that's what happened. Why? And I want to go back to, you know, Ronnie owing somebody money, which. Because we talked about that early on.

[Mike Gibson]

We did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Obviously the person in the bar is not the person he owed the money to.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But could that person have set it up, gotten someone that he knew Ronnie couldn't possibly know to trick them into going somewhere so that something bad could happen to them?

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. In retaliation for him not paying back this money? I mean, I think that's A viable scenario.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, look, you have no money. You throw your family into this truck with this stranger, that stranger can take you anywhere. What are you going to do? You don't have a vehicle to get back home. You don't have money to do anything with. You're stuck wherever they decide to take you. And maybe they take you to execute you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. There's no guarantee the person would have a way to defend themselves, you know, once they're in that truck. Especially against someone with a gun, you know, trained on them or their family.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So it could have gone down a number of different ways. But anyone with information is asked to call The Prince George RCMP at 250-561-3300 or anonymously. Contact Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 or online at www.pgcrimestoppers.bc ca. So, Gibbs, as we wrap this one up, we kind of already went through our feelings about the case. I mean, it's sad when anyone goes missing. It's even more sad when an entire family of four, including two smaller children, goes missing and so many years later. It's just really hard to believe that these people are still alive. Yeah, super hard. Really difficult to believe that they didn't meet with foul play somewhere along the way. And even though there wasn't a ton of reporting on this case, you know, we just felt compelled to cover it because like we talked about, I don't think these cases get enough coverage. And they deserve that. The indigenous people deserve as much coverage as anyone else.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe more, considering what's gone on in that area.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You talk about the Trail of Tears and all of the stuff that has happened in that area, but this is what you and I can do.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

We can't do everything, but this is what we decided to do. But that's it. For our episode on the Jack family disappearance, we got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear them.

[Liz from Massachusetts]

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Liz from Massachusetts. I just wanted to call in and let you guys know how much I love TCAT and Unsolved. Those two podcasts are the only ones that I listen to religiously. There's no other podcast like yours. I can't say I'm team anybody, but I do love Gibby. He seems so sweet. And you know what, Gibby, don't worry about mispronouncing words because my sister in law does it all the time. Here's an example for you. We went out to dinner and had polenta. And when my mother in law asked how our dinner was, my sister in law said the placenta was delicious. Another time with my mother in law again, she got into a car accident and bruised her sternum. And my sister in law asked her how her scrotum was. I mean, right? I even used those in a standup comedy act.

[Mike Ferguson]

I did.

[Liz from Massachusetts]

But there is a lot more where that came from. Anyway, I just wanted to say, you guys are so great. I enjoy listening to you. I love the banter back and forth and I love the research that goes into each episode. And that's it. I can't wait for more episodes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Thanks.

[Liz from Massachusetts]

Bye.

[Mike Ferguson]

So that might sound a little familiar because we just heard that a week or two ago. Yeah, we did, but it cut off.

[Sam]

Oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

So she sent back another voicemail and I wanted to play.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because for some reason it just kind of stopped. It just cut off. I also like the way that people talk about you in the puppy dog voice.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's okay, Gibby.

[Mike Gibson]

I know it's sweet. Sweet. And we got a little scrotum talk too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Nothing wrong with a little scrotum talk.

[Mike Ferguson]

Every now and then.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Hi, guys. I know that I will not share this for ages, but what I want to tell you is that. Well, this is Whitney. I'm from Texas, but I live in California now. Not relevant. I am so sad. I don't know what to do. I'm only on 2019. But I'm so sad because once I go through all of your episodes, I'm going to have to wait for you to have more. And I'm just so sad. It just breaks my whole heart. But I have to also tell you that Colin Davis, he did it. He did it. And he was also a dick. Oh, I'm sorry. He was also a jerk. Not a very nice person. Love, Priscilla. Long live all the women who are surviving breast cancer. Love you guys. Keep it up. Take care.

[Mike Ferguson]

I had to play that one.

[Mike Gibson]

You had to.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I just wonder how that accent goes over in California.

[Mike Gibson]

Because you can.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hear the Texas accent coming through. But appreciate all the calls.

[Mike Gibson]

We do.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Sam]

Sam.