Tracey Neilson

Summary

True Crime All The Time Unsolved

Episode: Tracey Neilson
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Date: February 2, 2026

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Overview

This episode examines the brutal unsolved 1981 murder of Tracey Diane Waterfield Nielsen in Moore, Oklahoma. The hosts, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson, reconstruct Tracey’s life, the circumstances around her murder, subsequent investigations, and the long-lasting impact on her family. The episode also explores frustrating dead ends, the evolution of forensic technology, and the hope that one day the case might still be solved.

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Tracey Nielsen: Life and Background

[03:37 – 05:50]

• Tracey was born January 5, 1960, in Canadian, Texas, the middle child of three.
• She was active in sports, student council, and cheerleading.
• Attended Oklahoma State University, joining the PI Beta Phi sorority.
• Met future husband Jeff Nielsen on a blind date, married in August 1980.
• Moved to Moore, Oklahoma, for further studies—Jeff in pre-med and Tracey in physical therapy, specializing in helping people with disabilities.
• Tracey was described as vibrant, compassionate, and beloved by all.

“She was fun. She was crazy. She loved to cook. She was very busy, very much alive. She loved people.”
– Sandy Waterfield, Tracey’s mother, [04:25]

• Tracey and Jeff were described by family as a perfect couple, deeply in love.

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The Murder

[08:03 – 13:05]

• January 5, 1981: Tracey’s 21st birthday.
• Jeff attended classes; Tracey did chores, visited a grocery store in the morning.
• Tracey did not answer birthday calls after noon; believed killed shortly after noon.
• [05:51 – 08:49] Jeff returned at 5:11pm with birthday gifts. He found the door unlocked, dinner preparation underway, and Tracey’s body in their bedroom—stabbed multiple times, throat cut.
• No signs of forced entry, struggle, or robbery; all clothing undisturbed.
• Neighbors heard nothing unusual.

“Absolutely brutal. And it’s... also her birthday. And that just seems like somehow it would make it even worse if you could make it worse.”
– Mike Ferguson, [09:45]

• The murder weapon was not found, but kitchen knives were tested for comparison.
• Time of death established as noon to shortly after.

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The Investigation

[13:06 – 19:02]

• Initial Theories and Suspects
  • No motive established; investigators ruled out Jeff quickly.
  • No evidence of sexual assault; motive unclear.
  • Tracey’s trusting nature may have played a role; she would let anyone in.

“She wasn’t afraid because everybody loved her. She was comfortable with anybody, completely at ease.”
– Sandy Waterfield, [13:55]

• Witness Descriptions and Suspect
  • Witnesses described a suspicious man seen near the apartment around noon.
  • Two descriptions conflicted mainly in hairstyle but were otherwise similar:
    • Late 20s/early 30s, 5'9"-5'10", 150-170 lbs, variously curly or military-cut hair.
  • Attempts to identify this man have failed.
• Evidence
  • Single fingerprint at the scene had no match at the time.

“We’re working on a million theories right now, but the case investigators have assured me we haven’t run out of suspects.”
– OSBI Spokesman Paul Renfro, [28:51]

• Authorities considered but eventually dismissed a potential link to known killer J. Kelly Pinkerton, whose crimes involved sexual assault, unlike Tracey’s case.

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Forensic and Investigative Roadblocks

[30:34 – 36:26]

• Technology Limitations
  • 1988: OSBI pushed for an automated fingerprint system, arguing manual checks were impractical.
  • 1990: Oklahoma approved funding for an Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS), championed by Tracey’s in-laws.
  • Despite hundreds of solved cases, Tracey’s print yielded no match; her killer’s prints are not in the system.

“A detective could spend his entire career going through our fingerprint files and never solve the case. But the computer can search an entire file in a matter of minutes.”
– OSBI Director Ted Lemke, [34:03]

• Key Evidence Released Decades Later
  • In 2015, OSBI revealed:
    • A mysterious cable ticket book, last ticket logged at Tracey’s apartment at 11:51am.
    • No cable or utility work was scheduled; initials and an employee number remain unidentified.
    • In July 2015: A unique keychain with Tracey’s name believed stolen as a trophy.
  • These leads were held back for decades, frustrating the hosts.

“I feel like waiting this long is a critical error.”
– Mike Gibson, [40:31]

• Large $100,000 reward offered for actionable information.

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Family Impact and Unanswered Questions

[44:27 – 50:33]

• Both family and investigators see the volume and brutality of the attack as indicators of extreme rage, but without clear motive.
• Tracey’s sister, Cindy, shared the profound void left by her death:

“So much was taken from us and from her that day... her future was taken away just like that.”
– Cindy, Tracey’s sister, [45:54]

• Jeff Nielsen, now an orthopedic surgeon, recounted his trauma at discovering Tracey’s body and the ongoing psychological toll:

“During my first years at medical school, I was dissecting cadavers, but nothing prepares you for that. It was absolutely horrible.”
– Jeff Nielsen, [46:41]

• He also noted the daily struggle with "what if" scenarios and the ever-present pain of closure denied.

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Recent Developments & Ongoing Hope

[50:33 – End]

• Release of evidence in 2015 generated tips, but no arrests.
• OSBI continues to hope the fingerprint or stolen keychain could provide a breakthrough, possibly via new relationships or confessions.
• The case, now over 45 years cold, still affects everyone who knew Tracey.

“With the fingerprint on file or with the right information from the public, this is definitely one of those cases... that could be solved one day.”
– Mike Ferguson, [51:40]

• Listeners with any information are encouraged to contact OSBI at [e-mail] or 800-522-8017.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [05:51] “She was extremely smart and funny, and I loved being around her.” – Jeff Nielsen
• [13:06] “No motive. Okay, where do you start?” – Mike Ferguson
• [40:31] “I feel like waiting this long is a critical error.” – Mike Gibson
• [46:41] “Nothing prepares you for that. It was absolutely horrible.” – Jeff Nielsen

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Major Theories & Takeaways

• Prime Suspect: Mystery “cable worker” or pseudo-utility employee, never identified.
• Limited Forensic Matches: Crime scene fingerprint never matched in databases.
• Random or Targeted? Unclear if Tracey was targeted or a victim of opportunity; savagery implies rage.
• Withheld Evidence: Family and hosts question why crucial clues (the ticket book, keychain) were not publicized sooner.
• Case Status: Unsolved, but potentially solvable via fingerprints, the stolen keychain, or a confession spurred by renewed attention.

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For listeners, this episode illuminates the heartbreak of a promising life ended without explanation and the persistent hope that new eyes and emerging technology might someday provide closure to Tracey’s family.

Transcript

[Liz Iacuzzi]

Cults are everywhere. They don't just live in the walls of NXIVM and Scientology.

[Tyler Meesam]

There are sex cults, self help cults, workout cults, political cults, even legging cults.

[Liz Iacuzzi]

And on the podcast Was I in a Cult? We focus on the brave individuals who have lived through them.

[Tyler Meesam]

I'm Liz Iacuzzi. And I'm Tyler Meesam, your host of Was I in a Cult?

[Liz Iacuzzi]

Join us each week as we take you through a heroic rollercoaster of someone's journey in and out of a cult.

[Tyler Meesam]

With a little levity thrown in. Because humor is healing and cults are funny.

[Liz Iacuzzi]

Listen to and follow Was I an Occult At Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, which for Tyler.

[Tyler Meesam]

Is at Rite Aid on tape.

[Mike Ferguson]

Foreign. And welcome to episode 450 of the True Crime all the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great. We did get quite a bit of snow here in Ohio.

[Mike Gibson]

We did.

[Mike Ferguson]

So we're shoveling out of that. But a lot of the country did. Yeah, even down south. I was really surprised.

[Mike Gibson]

Snow and ice.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Priscilla Gale.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Priscilla baby.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nick Robinson. That was. That wasn't bad.

[Mike Gibson]

I thought it was pretty decent, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

It was. It was. Hey.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Nick.

[Mike Ferguson]

Laurel. H. A H. Brian McKinney.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? McKinney.

[Mike Ferguson]

Katie. Sherwood.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Sherwood.

[Mike Ferguson]

J.S.

[Mike Gibson]

We appreciate that.

[Mike Ferguson]

S. Kim Rasicki.

[Mike Gibson]

Rosicki.

[Mike Ferguson]

Mandy Geierman.

[Mike Gibson]

Not easy to say.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Marianne Keyswood Wells.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thank you so much, Wells.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Jilly Jacobs.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks Jacobs.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So we appreciate the new Patreon support, the continued support. Speaking of Patreon, we just put a full blown Patreon episode out last Saturday night and it was about Aaron Davis. This is a 19 year old who had just passed an important exam, getting ready to start his career and he went to visit his best friend on his way to see his girlfriend. And then the next day his car was found abandoned.

[Mike Gibson]

Tragic events.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but it's the perpetrator. Yeah, I think in this one who it turned out to be, that, that really shocked people. We also have a brand new episode out on TCAT. It's on Frank McAllister who was reported missing in 1993 by his fiance Investigators suspected foul play when they found blood in the vehicle Frank was driving. And this turned into a cold case. But both his family and authorities suspected Frank was killed by three people who were thought to have last been with him. But it was cold for almost 25 years until one of the suspects revealed everything in a shocking TV interview.

[Mike Gibson]

And it was shocking.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was, all right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime? All the Time unsolved?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Tracy Nielsen. On January 5, 1981, Jeff Nielsen returned home from a day of classes to find his wife of five months, Tracy, dead from multiple stab wounds. Over four decades later, Tracy's murder remains unsolved. Tracy Diane Waterfield Nielsen was born on January 5, 1960, in Canadian, Texas. Tracy was the middle of three children. She was an athlete, head cheerleader, and student council member. She graduated high school in 1978.

[Mike Gibson]

She was the middle kid. She had to be awesome because you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Are the middle of three children.

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

And according to you, you are awesome.

[Mike Gibson]

And I was a head cheerleader. No, just joking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tracy's mother, Sandy Waterfield, told the Amarillo Globe News. Nobody could have had a sweeter, better daughter than my two. She was fun. She was crazy. She loved to cook. She was very busy, very much alive. She loved people.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like a amazing young lady.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tracy attended Oklahoma State University and joined the PI Beta Phi sorority. She met her future husband, Jeffrey Nielsen, during a blind date freshman year. They fell in love and were very happy together. Jeff and Tracy got married in August 1980 in Canadian, Texas. After the wedding, they started classes at the University of Oklahoma. Jeff was pre med, and Tracy was focusing on physical therapy, specifically working with people with disabilities. Tracy loved physical therapy, and it was the only thing she wanted to do as a career.

[Mike Gibson]

I love physical therapy, too, when it's.

[Mike Ferguson]

Done to me not to do it to other people.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I like it when, like, hey, let me work that kink out and let me help you stretch.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I got you.

[Mike Gibson]

Let's ice that down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I got you. But, you know, the one thing I'm taking away, Gibbs, is that it seems like Jeff and Tracy were really setting themselves up to have a great life.

[Mike Gibson]

They sure were.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jeff's premed. She's going into physical therapy. Jeff and Tracy lived at the Jamestown Square Apartments in the neighboring town of Moore, Oklahoma. They'd only been married five months when Tracy was killed. Speaking to people, Jeff said Tracy was a joy to be around. Everyone loved being around her. She was beautiful and fun and just wonderful. To be around. She was extremely smart and funny, and I loved being around her.

[Mike Gibson]

It sounds like, again, an amazing person. Clearly, Jeff was in love. And sounds like he found his soulmate, you know, somebody that probably challenged him.

[Mike Ferguson]

In a good way.

[Mike Gibson]

In a good way. And obviously, he just adored her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But there's so many people here saying, you know, people love to be around her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And let's face it, you know, there are people who are like that, and then there are people that are the opposite of that. Nobody really wants to be around them.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Unfortunately.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But Traci wasn't one of those people. It sounds like she was, you know, fun, smart, easy to get along with. People gravitated towards her.

[Mike Gibson]

I feel like the party started when Tracy got there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's kind of the feeling I got as well. Tracy's family believes she and Jeff would have moved to his hometown of Altus, Oklahoma, after finishing school. Sandy Waterfield told the Amarillo Globe news, you see a million dreams and know they probably would have been true. We fell in love with the Nielsen family. Jeff was just everything we wanted for trace. So, you know, we talk about Tracy being wonderful. Here's her family really saying nothing but glowing things about Jeff. They really loved him.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like they were the perfect couple.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. If there is such a thing. Now, there, no doubt. I'm sure they had some issues here and there, but I think, by and large, it sounds like they got a long grade.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Good match.

[Mike Ferguson]

January 5, 1981, was Tracy's 21st birthday. For Jeff, it was also the first day of his second semester. He spent the day attending classes. Tracy was seen at the grocery store, and neighbors saw her doing chores at her apartment around noon that day. Tracy didn't answer several phone calls from friends and family wishing her a happy birthday. Authorities believe the murder occurred sometime after noon that day. And that would make sense, right, if you have neighbors who saw her doing chores at noon, and then nobody really sees her after that. Not too hard to think that the murder occurred sometime after noon.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, would make sense.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I'm not a detective, but I don't need to be one to put that together. Jeff went to Oklahoma City to buy a gift for Tracy. He arrived at the apartment at 5:11pm with a card and perfume. The door was unlocked. He saw that Tracy had set out two lobster tails on the counter for her birthday dinner. Jeff walked into the bedroom and found Tracy face up in bed. Her throat was cut, and she had been stabbed multiple times. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. And it's Never going to be a good situation, right, when you find your significant other, the love of your life, dead, but it's also her birthday. And that just seems like somehow it would make it even worse if you could make it worse.

[Mike Gibson]

It's cruel. I'm just thinking, you know, here's Jeff, right? Typical guy, you know, getting the birthday present on the day of the last minute as.

[Mike Ferguson]

As a lot of us do.

[Mike Gibson]

But he gets it. He's on his way home, probably can't wait to see his wife, you know, happy coming in. Oh, sees the lobsters out. This is awesome. We're going to have a great birthday dinner for her. And then walks into the room and just that feeling in your gut and how your heart had it just sink. Devastating.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators later determined that Tracy was stabbed over 20 times in the chest and neck. All of her clothing was still on. The murder weapon wasn't found in the apartment or nearby, but Tracy's kitchen knives were sent to the medical examiner to be compared with her knife wounds. There were no signs of forced entry, a struggle, or a robbery. It appeared that Tracy had been ironing shirts and watching TV when someone came to the door. Neighbors told police they didn't hear screams or notice anything unusual that afternoon. So there are some things here to dissect. All of her clothing was still on. What does that mean to investigators, kind of in a cursory review? Well, maybe more than likely, she was not sexually assaulted or this murder wasn't sexually motivated.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

It doesn't mean it for sure. There were no signs of forced entry, no signs of a struggle or a robbery. So did Tracy know the person, or did she let the person in? Because, I don't know, they were trying to sell her a vacuum or something like that. And then the fact that there were no screams heard or anything like that. Was she taken by surprise? You know, so just a lot of things to keep in the mix. Investigators recovered a fingerprint from the crime scene, but it had no immediate match. The Oklahoma state bureau of investigation joined the investigation shortly after it started. The medical examiner determined Tracy had been dead for four to six hours before she was found, placing her time of death around noon as suspected. There also was no evidence of sexual assault. So we're not really learning anything new. But the medical examiner is confirming what was suspected?

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Both in the time of death and that she was not sexually assaulted or that was not the motive for the murder.

[Mike Gibson]

So now you have to say, well, who would do something like this and be so brutal to such a. As we Know a wonderful person from everything we've heard.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And was there a motive or was this like a motiveless murder, Just someone that wanted to kill? Because, let's face it, those are harder to solve. Right. If you don't have a motive and you have no connection between the killer and the victim, those are often a lot of times, you know, much harder cases to solve.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jeff was quickly ruled out as a suspect. Investigators couldn't establish a motive for the violent killing. And like I said, that that makes it tough. Right. You and I have talked quite a bit. No motive. Okay. Where do you start? Because the motive or the thought of a motive, whether it's jealousy, greed, or any of those, can kind of at least give you a starting point of who to look at, whether it's exes, significant others. We already said Jeff was ruled out, but maybe convicted sexual predators in the neighborhood. If she was sexually assaulted right now, as it stands with no motive, where do they start?

[Mike Gibson]

And that is going to be really tough.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tracy's mother, Sandy Waterfield, recalled that police asked her whether Tracy would have invited someone she didn't know into the apartment. Sandy told the Amarillo Globe News after they had been here in Canadian and interviewed people. They said she would have let anybody in. She wasn't afraid because everybody loved her. She was comfortable with anybody, completely at ease. It didn't matter if she'd known you her lifetime or just met you.

[Mike Gibson]

Just trusting.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, very trusting. And on the one hand, you love that about a person.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. You do.

[Mike Ferguson]

On the other hand, it's not great for someone's personal safety. On January 8, police issued a description of a potential suspect based on witness statements from the apartment complex. Police also revealed that they thought they knew what type of knife was used in the murder, but withheld specific information from the public.

[Mike Gibson]

That's smart. We know why they do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's a number of reasons, I think, you know, somebody comes in to confess, okay, what type of knife did you use? And if they're way off, it's going to make it a little harder to believe that confession.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because if you're the killer, you should know what type of knife you used. A suspicious man was seen outside of Tracy's apartment around the time of the murder. Two neighbors provided descriptions that differ but may be the same suspect. Residents of an adjoining duplex described a man in his late 20s, 5ft 9 inches tall and 155 pounds, with dark, curly medium length hair and a day's growth of beard. He entered the apartment around noon. The second witness described a man in his early 30s, 5ft 10 inches tall, 150 to 170 pounds, with short black hair worn in a military style with short sideburns. Now, I think we've talked about this many times. How good is someone's recollection of what they saw? And I would argue that these are very close except for the hair. Right. That's what seems to be really different about the two descriptions. You know, if you ask me, is someone in their late 20s or early 30s, I don't know, is it that far off? Is it that it's not that much different? 5, 9, 5 10. Okay, very close. 155 pounds, 150 to 170. Those are all very similar. But curly medium length hair versus military style with short sideburns. That is a vast difference.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's just hard to do for some people. I mean, I've probably seen your oldest daughter's fiance 20, 30 times or a hundred times or 100 times. And I might be able to get like how tall he is, but I would not be able to tell you what his hair looks like on his head.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, facial, I can kind of see. But I wouldn't be able to tell you how his hair sits. You know, if it's curly, not curly. I just wouldn't be able to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now I'm really good at recognizing people.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But me describing what someone looks like to another person, I don't think I'd be great at that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I'm really good. If I see somebody in a movie, I'll be like, oh, well, that person played so and so 20 years ago.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even though they look completely different, I just, I have that ability. But to describe it, I think I would struggle with that.

[Mike Gibson]

I know I would.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I definitely struggle with people's ages.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it's hard to narrow that down. Right. I mean, especially today. I mean, some people, I probably would think that they are older than they really are for me, because I'll look at people when I'm out and I'll be like, he's probably like in his 30s. And then I'll find out because they know somebody. And later I find out, oh, they're only like in their mid-20s. I'm like, well, how did I miss that one? But it's just hard to narrow that down for me.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you just walk around checking out men and trying to figure out their ages all day. Is that what you're telling me? You didn't say anything, anything about women.

[Mike Gibson]

I would not be, you know, those guys at the carnival.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Let me guess. Your age or your weight?

[Mike Ferguson]

Did you say wage or eight? No, I said age or weight. I heard wage or 8.

[Mike Gibson]

I'd be better at guessing wage than either of the other two. Yeah, I'd be like, I think you make about, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

But yeah, you know folks, when Gibby and I started this podcast, there were a lot of questions that we asked ourselves. There was a lot of doubt. You know, is this the right decision? What if we fail? What if nobody listens? You know, it might be hard to get over the doubt and the uncertainty. Choosing to make that leap, though, was one of the best decisions we've ever made, and Shopify helped ease some of our worries with their expertise, helpful tools, and easy to use platforms. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US and Shopify has everything you need. World class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and more. And did I mention that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. It also helps boost conversions, meaning less carts going abandoned and more sales for you. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for a $1 per month trial today at shopify.com unsolved go to shopify.com unsolved that's shopify.com unsolved. It's amazing that to this very day, many small business owners are still making post office runs or they're stuck with expensive postage meter leases. Folks, it's 2026. It's not 1926. Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com with stamps.com, you can send from your computer or phone 24. 7. No long lines, no running out of supplies. It's open anytime, print postage on demand and get up to 90% off carrier rates like FedEx, UPS and USPS. For almost 30 years, millions of customers have relied on stamps.com to make mailing and shipping faster. And so simple. Here at True Crime all the time we use stamps.com. it not only saves us money, but it saves so much time. I no longer make post office runs Right now you can try stamps.com risk free for 60 days. Go to stamps.com and use code tcat to get 60 days risk free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's Stamps.com code TCAT. That's Stamps.com Code TCAT. To date, no one matching either description has been publicly identified when issuing the Update. More Police Lt. Ray Homer said about the crime scene. Per the Sepulpa Daily Herald. There wasn't any apparent chasing through the house. I'm sure there was a struggle at the point of the attack, but there was no furniture knocked over. Lt. Homer also said robbery had not been ruled out but noted. We're having a difficult time determining if anything is missing.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, if you're taken by surprise, I mean, there's a good chance that there wouldn't be any struggle.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, you could knock someone out very quickly. Yeah, and I get it, they could have stolen something, but it obviously couldn't have been something big or. Because you would think Jeff would have walked through and noticed that. Right. The TV's gone or the safe was cracked open. If they had a safe or whatever it might be.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

My expensive watch is gone. That month it was reported that detectives were investigating the possibility of a connection between the murder of Tracy Nielsen and the murder of 25 year old Sherry Lynn Welch in Amarillo, Texas. Sherry was murdered inside her family's furniture store on April 9, 1980. Like Tracy, Sherry was a young married woman. She managed a furniture store which was located at a shopping center. Sherry was found face down in the back room of the store. She was naked except for the collar of her blouse which was still around her neck. She had been stabbed 16 times in the back. The front door of the store was locked at the normal closing time of 5:30pm Detectives were unsure whether Sherry opened the door for the killer or whether someone was hiding inside. When she locked the door, the keys were found nearby. Sherry's clothes were found in a path leading to the back room. Her purse, wallet and rings were found by her body. But Sherry's case was eventually solved. She was killed by J. Kelly Pinkerton, who was executed in 1986 for Sherry's murder and the murder of 30 year old Sarah Lawrence, a married mother of three. And I think the timing of that just highlights the difference of executions in the 80s. Yes, I mean, this man was executed six years after the murder, not even after the trial wrapped up. Six years after the murder occurred. That would never happen today.

[Mike Gibson]

No, this is very quickly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even in a state that had the death penalty, you know, they linger on for, you know, quite a while. But I've always said, Gibbs, I have A very strong feeling that given the short time frame in which some people were executed, a lot of people who were innocent were probably executed.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I think there's a percentage.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know what the percentage is, but you also have to think, okay, there was really no DNA in the early 80s and things like that, but if it had taken 20 years, and I don't know what the right time frame is, that's even if you believe in the death penalty. But if it had taken 20 years, maybe there would have been DNA that would have exonerated a person. We know people have been exonerated off of death row. We have through things like DNA. But we were talking about Sarah Lawrence. Sarah Lawrence was murdered on October 26, 1979. Her husband David was working that day. Sarah took the kids to a Halloween carnival. David found her body around 11:30pm she had been stabbed repeatedly with a replica bowie knife that was hanging in their bedroom. Jay Pinkerton, who was only 17 at the time, broke into the home through a window, raped Sarah, and stabbed her over 30 times while her children slept in nearby bedrooms. Her throat was cut, and she was sexually abused and mutilated after death, per the upi.

[Mike Gibson]

What a monster.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, this guy committed some, you know, very heinous murders. He also took away wives from husbands, mothers from their children. At 17 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, young.

[Mike Ferguson]

Very young. Authorities have not linked Pinkerton to Tracy's murder.

[Mike Gibson]

But the thing, 17, vicious murder, and then a few years later, does it again. Is it not unlikely that he might have killed Tracy?

[Mike Ferguson]

No, but I think the stark difference with Tracy's murder, as opposed to the other two for which he was convicted, is that Tracy wasn't sexually assaulted and the other two victims were. Now, does that mean it couldn't have been him? No, it doesn't mean that at all. It could have been that he was going to. And maybe he got scared. Some noises outside.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it could also be that it's just a completely different person.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, very much so, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think a lot of times we want to pin murders on convicted murderers because that makes us feel a little better. Not like there's thousands of murderers around. Right. There's only a few. Let's try to group them together, but sadly, that's not always the case.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think we all like that. Closure makes us feel safer. Oh, well, we know who did it, and everything's okay now.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think there for a while, they tried to pin every unsolved murder in Texas on Henry Lee Lucas. Just made everybody feel good. We know he's a monster. He must have killed all these people.

[Mike Gibson]

And I think he wanted credit for everything, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

He did. As long as he got a strawberry milkshake, man, that's all he cared about. Four months after Tracy was killed, the police still hadn't made an arrest, but the OSBI assured the public they were vigorously pursuing the case and were meeting daily to compare leads. Many of Tracy's acquaintances had been eliminated as suspects, including her ex boyfriend from her hometown. Her acquaintances were also questioned again. You know, obviously, her husband was going to be looked at, but you're going to have to, especially after he's ruled out.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're going to have to expand that circle. Ex boyfriends, friends, co workers. I mean, what, you name it, everybody's got to be looked at.

[Mike Gibson]

The husband's exes, Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe they got jealous because she got the prize.

[Mike Ferguson]

It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last that. That. That has happened. OSBI spokesman Paul Renfro said, as quoted by the Daily Oklahoman. We're working on a million theories right now, but the case investigators have assured me we haven't run out of suspects. And I'm not sure what's worse, having no theories or a million theories, and I know a million is hyperbole, but having nowhere to start or having so many directions that you don't have time to even look into them all.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And, you know, it's just using up resources.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I think they're both not ideal situations. Right. In a perfect world, you would have that one lead that is kind of almost undeniable. Almost like the breadcrumbs are leading right to this person. But unfortunately, that's not the case most of the time. Authorities were still seeking to question the unidentified man spotted outside Tracy's apartment. Unfortunately, Tracy's case went cold. Years passed with no new leads, but authorities continued to hope that the unidentified fingerprint would be the key to solving the murder. And I'm sure they wanted to talk to this unidentified man. How could they not think, Gibbs, that this is most likely their prime suspect if he's seen at the apartment at noon.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the time of death is placed around noon. Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

That's your best possibility.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But how do you figure out who this person is? Well, in October 1988, OSBI officials requested a computer fingerprint system, noting that if they had such technology, Tracy's murder and others might be solved.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, for me, this is crazy. Right. If you think about it, Today, running fingerprints, no brainer. No brainer. Everybody has a method to do it. Almost everybody has a method to it. But back then, it was so new.

[Mike Ferguson]

So some people had it, some people didn't. And then even then, you know, what's the database like and who's entering things into the database? Meaning there may not be that much to compare. You wonder how they solved any crimes at all back then.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, yeah, talk about a game changer, right? Because back in the day, the only way you looked at fingerprints was one at a time trying to compare certain. Right. Well, how many are you going to look at before you're like, yeah, we don't have it here.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and that would mean you'd have to have the guilty person's fingerprint already on file.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not in a database from, let's say, a different state or something like. Or county or something like that. Director Ted Lemke announced that the OSBI hoped to acquire a $3.5 million computer system that could store electronic images of fingerprints for comparison. This had become the bureau's number one priority. Spokesman Paul Renfro also told the Daily Oklahoman that OSBI officials believed a serial killer was involved in Tracy's death. If that killer had prints on record at any state law enforcement agency, the computer might be able to identify him. Renfro said, we worked for months on that case, and frankly, we're at a dead end. We did take fingerprints, and if we had this system seven years ago, maybe we wouldn't be wondering now. So you kind of get the feeling that maybe Oklahoma was lagging as far as technology at that point in time, Maybe. Compared to other states. The OSBI asked the state legislature for money to buy the computer, but they were told funds were not appropriated because of the high cost. The OSBI planned to make another request when the legislature began its next session. And, you know, yeah, $3.5 million is a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

It is a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

But computer systems were very expensive. I mean, you could probably today buy a laptop with more processing power than that system had for about 300 bucks, if I had to guess.

[Mike Gibson]

Probably right.

[Mike Ferguson]

The Daily Oklahoman reported that at the time, the OSBI had 600,000 cards on file with 10 fingerprints to a card. OSBI Director Ted Lemke said a detective could spend his entire career going through our fingerprint files and never solve the case. But the computer can search an entire file in a matter of minutes, and.

[Mike Gibson]

That'S a game changer.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, and I think it just goes back to what you said so you're Talking about what, 6 million fingerprints? 600,000 cards. 10 fingerprints on a card. If you and I are sitting next to each other, each with magnifying glasses, we would grow old and die before we ever got close to getting through all of those 6 million. It just wouldn't happen.

[Mike Gibson]

You're exactly right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In May 1990, the Oklahoma Senate voted to buy the fingerprint computer system. The Daily Oklahoman credited Jerry and Shirley Nielsen, Tracy's former in laws, who had been working with the OSBI on this project for years. The Nielsens waited in the gallery while the bill was considered. In January 1991, Jerry and Shirley Nielsen received the 1990 OSBI Director's Award for helping the Bureau acquire the automated Fingerprint Identification System, known to most of us as atheists. And like you said, Gibbs, it's just something that I think people take for granted now that you can search through a whole database of fingerprints in a matter of, you know, I don't know how long it takes, but I'm sure it's minutes or it's not that long.

[Mike Gibson]

And if you think about all the fingerprints out there, right? I mean, most of the police department, sheriff's departments, the jails, prisons, military hospitals, sometimes people that work there, Right. I mean, everybody's got to put their fingerprint into something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. If you go to get a concealed carry license, yeah, you got to give your fingerprint.

[Mike Gibson]

So that just really opens up the possibility of potentially finding a suspect.

[Mike Ferguson]

The fingerprint computer system has helped solve hundreds of crimes in Oklahoma, but it has not found a match to the print at the Nielsen scene. So it's good and bad. Right. It's amazing that Tracy's parents were instrumental in helping Oklahoma get this system. But then it's unbelievably sad that the system they helped get couldn't help solve their daughter's murder.

[Mike Gibson]

So whoever left that fingerprint just has never been fingerprinted. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And put in the system. And that's something we talk about as far as even the new technology, right. DNA is amazing. Fingerprints are awesome. But unless you get a match, unless the person's DNA, unless the person's fingerprint has been taken, uploaded into, you know, one of the systems, it really doesn't do you that much good until you have something to compare it to, it's kind of wasted technology at that point. You know, this is the time where a lot of us are starting new goals, working on new goals, and a lot of those are related to our health and well being. Naturally, we all start looking at what can support those goals, including supplements. But choosing the right supplements can be very confusing. First of all, supplements are lightly regulated, products are easy to make, and companies don't even have to list everything on their label. That's exactly why I partnered with Momentous and what makes them stand out. They've become the high trust brand in a low trust category. They weren't satisfied with the industry standards, so they built the momentous standard. Their commitment to doing things the right way, not the easy way. Momentous sources only the highest quality ingredients on the planet. Their whey protein comes from grass fed European dairy cows. Their creatine uses the purest form of creatine monohydrate. And every formula is made with clinically backed, highly bioavailable nutrients with no fillers and no artificial sweeteners. And if a product doesn't meet their standard, it never hits the shelf. I have been using momentous creatine, their omega 3 and their whey protein and I'm feeling the difference and so will you. Right now, Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first order with promo code UNSOLVED. Head to livemomentous.com and use promo code UNSOLVED through for up to 35% off your first Order. That's livemomentous.com promo code UNSOLVEDSED. Homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property, it's location and the neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. And when I say in depth, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. On January 5, 2015, the OSBI released previously unseen evidence they hoped would generate new leads. They released images of a cable ticket book which had an employee number and scribbled initials on it. The last ticket in the book was for work done at the Nielsen apartment on January 5, 1981. The entry placed the worker in the home at 11:51am around the time of the murder, a box was checked indicating the job had been completed, and three letters were scribbled inside a box for the employee's name. Investigators had spent decades unsuccessfully trying to identify the owner of the ticket book. There wasn't any work that was supposed to be done by a cable or phone company that day. No utility workers were supposed to be at the apartment either. The ticket book didn't show the company name, but agents narrowed it down to Southwestern Bell, which is now at and.

[Mike Gibson]

T. For me, something like this. I feel like waiting this long is a critical error.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I do, too. And it's something that you and I have talked about before. I understand early on why they want to keep some things held back, but, you know, when 5, 10, 15 years go by, and in this case, it's over 30 years, almost 35 years, at what point do you make the decision? Because this is a huge piece of evidence, potentially.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Mike Ferguson]

That somebody might know something about. But when you wait 34 years or whatever it was, okay, well, then the chances that that person is still alive that might know or somebody who used to work with those ticket books, you know, you're just, You're. I'm with you. I just. I just don't really understand why they don't make that decision earlier.

[Mike Gibson]

Put it in the paper. Maybe the company that prints those will come forward. Maybe people that work with those type of forms come forward and say, we use that all the time. That's such and such. And, yeah, we do work in that area.

[Mike Ferguson]

And here's the people that were working that day or, you know, I mean, it's very hard to think, given the fact that the worker was in the home at 11:51 and her murder was thought to have occurred at noon, that this person isn't, at the very least, a very, very high on the list type of individual as a prime suspect.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The OSBI also called the single unidentified fingerprint one of the best pieces of evidence they had. They noted that trying to match a print without a suspect in the 1980s was difficult. In July 2015, the OSBI held another press conference to reveal another clue. Authorities were searching for a keychain that was stolen from the apartment. It's believed the killer took it as a trophy. The keychain had Tracy's name on it in block letters with a tortoise shell cover background. It was about 1 inch wide and 4 inches long. You can view a sketch artist's drawing of the keychain Online. And, Gibbs, I would kind of lump this in with the ticket book.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you think that Tracy's killer took this as a trophy. Well, what's the chance that over the years, maybe a spouse, a girlfriend, a friend saw this in someone's house or.

[Mike Gibson]

Received it as a gift or got.

[Mike Ferguson]

It as a gift. Maybe that person later got a girlfriend whose name was Tracy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, I understand holding it back maybe for a few months, maybe the first year, but after that, why hold on to it?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, the only thing I can figure is that they just have it in their mind that they need as much as they can to try to weed out false confessions. Or they don't want the person to get rid of these things, and they're afraid they will once it goes public.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Mike Ferguson]

But what you've done hasn't worked for 35 years or so. So at some point, you got to throw your cards on the table, right? At the July press conference, OSBI also announced a $100,000 reward funded by the Bureau, the Moore Police Department, and Jeff and Tracy's families.

[Mike Gibson]

That's impressive.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it's a lot of money as far as rewards go here in the U.S. jeff said at the time, is quoted by KFOR. With Tracy's death, there's a huge emotional burden that's placed on the family, the extended family, and everyone her life touched. I think that it's likely this was a random event, and I don't know where the rage came from. And I think that's a great question. We talk about, number one, just the act of stabbing. It's up close, it's personal. And then when you talk about the number of stab wounds, well, the higher the number, oftentimes people talk about rage. It doesn't necessarily mean that the person had rage against this specific person. Maybe they just felt like they wanted to stab somebody a bunch of times. True. But I would think more often than not, a high number of stab wounds does meet, that the perpetrator had something against the victim. They were taking something out on them. In July 2015, Tracy's sister Cindy also spoke about how the murder impacted her, telling NBC, so much was taken from us and from her that day. I don't think I really ever realized how much I depended on her until she was gone. She went to Oklahoma State for college. So did I. She pledged PI Phi sorority. So did I. And her future was taken away just like that. In December 2016, Jeff spoke to people about his hope that the case would be solved someday by this time, Jeff was remarried and working as an orthopedic surgeon. He said that not a day goes by where he doesn't think about the moment he found Tracy's body. He said, during my first years at medical school, I was dissecting cadavers, but nothing prepares you for that. It was absolutely horrible.

[Mike Gibson]

It's probably just burnt in his head, that vision.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And I think even if you're a doctor or medical student, you know, dissecting a cadaver, well, that's not someone you know. I'm sure for some people it takes some getting used to, but the emotion probably isn't there because you're not married to that person. You didn't know that person. Much different than finding your wife, whom you'd only been married to for a short time.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Dead in such a horrific fashion. But you and I often wonder about things like that. Right. Would you ever forget something? Would you know, that thought creep up every now and then or every day? Now this is a little different. Sometimes we're talking about finding a dead body on the road. This is finding your wife of five months dead. That. That would be even more traumatic.

[Mike Gibson]

It would be. I mean, this is your soulmate.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I. I think he, you know, he said it. Right. Not a day goes by, and I think that's probably true for individuals in that similar situation. Jeff recalled that after finding Tracy in their bed, he went crazy for a minute. He went to the front door, left the home, and ran down the street to a friend's house to call 91 1. Jeff said he hadn't given up hope. I'm not entirely sure what closure means, but I do think knowing what happened would help in some ways in dealing with the psychological repercussions of what happened to Tracy. And we've heard it so many times, the not knowing is horrible for these family members now. The death itself was horrible. But now you have the 35 years or so of not knowing what happened, and it's just. I think it probably just stacks on top and becomes like this crushing weight.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it keeps them up at night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if they knew, maybe they would get some sleep better. Maybe they would be more rested, get a little sleep.

[Mike Ferguson]

You wonder, like, what questions swirl around, let's say, for someone like Jeff, you know, did he know this person? Did he somehow maybe talk about his wife and someone fixated on her? I mean, you can just think of a million different things that might run through your mind. What, if anything, did I do wrong? What could I have done? Differently.

[Mike Gibson]

What if I didn't work that day and stayed home for her birthday? What if I would have came home at lunchtime to surprise her?

[Mike Ferguson]

What if?

[Mike Gibson]

What if? What if? And I think you're going to ask those same questions again and again and again until you find out why somebody did what they did to her or who did it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because. Because that's going to answer some questions, too. If there's no connection whatsoever, you didn't know this person. You've never talked to them. Well, it takes some of those things out of the equation. Jeff thinks the keychain could be the key to solving Tracy's murder because it could link someone to the crime. He said, we hope a mistake is made. I think we're doing a Hail Mary pass here and trying to do whatever we can to stimulate one phone call to authorities that could lead to something. OSBI Agent Francia Thompson also told people's relationships change over time. If anyone, a former girlfriend or ex wife, might recognize it and knew that it was taken from a crime scene, it could provide the lead we need.

[Mike Gibson]

Agreed.

[Mike Ferguson]

Agreed, too. But I also go back to the fact that you are now 35 years on. So do you have a better chance today or a worse chance now? You might have a better chance of a person's relationship having changed. Yeah, but I think you have a worse chance of someone still being alive and. Or remembering as well. According to a 2021 report by KFOR, the OSBI received numerous tips after releasing the evidence in 2015, but nothing has led to an arrest. And for as much as we've talked about it, there's no guarantee, Right. That releasing it earlier would have led to an arrest either. But maybe you up your chances. I don't know. It's been 45 years since Tracy Nielsen was killed. Tracy was enjoying one of the happiest periods of her life. She was a newlywed and studying for a career she loved. This was violently taken from her by an unidentified person. You know, with the fingerprint on file or with the right information from the public. This is definitely one of those cases, Gibbs, that could be solved one day. We have all heard, right, about the evidence not being able to be linked. And then all of a sudden, maybe that person slips up, they get arrested, their fingerprints now are on file, and the cold case team goes back and does a search, and now there's a hit. And then, you know, that change, that could change the case dramatically. But if you have any information about the murder of Tracy Nielsen, you can contact the osbi@cole caseosbi.ok.gov or call 800-522-8017. So, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, no doubt it's tragic. All of these are. Tracy seemed like she was a very nice person. Very caring, very loving. I mean, I think even her family said it. She would most likely have opened the door to anyone.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Very friendly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because she was that friendly and trusting. You love that about her. You love that about anyone who's like that. But I also do worry about people like that just for their own safety.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, if it was a maintenance person that was in the apartment building doing something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, and you know that piece of paper might have told that story.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep.

[Mike Gibson]

But that could have been a. That could have been something that happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

And more than likely, if you thought that person was with the apartment complex, you would let them in.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because you think that they're there in an official capacity. Maybe they were there in an official capacity, but we don't know. Now, it's unlikely because it was said no one was supposed to be there, no one was scheduled to be there. So that means either this person maybe was a maintenance man somewhere else, had the outfit, or just got a hold of an outfit that look kind of looked like a maintenance man or like a Dennis Raider. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

Alarm system.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Driving by, sees this really, you know, attractive woman outside and decides to come by. And I'm with the alarm company. I'm here to install something, inspect something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's. It's just really hard to tell in a case like this. But I. I do hope that they're able to match that fingerprint one day and that this case can be solved, you know, for her family, for Jeff. All these people who have been for so many years just wanting to know what happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they deserve to know that.

[Mike Ferguson]

They do. But that's it for our episode on Tracy Nielsen. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Mandy Plank]

Hi, Mike and Gibbe, this is Mandy Plank. I was just listening to an episode on Unsafe and heard a woman referencing Erica Fraser. I am actually from and currently living in the town that she disappeared from. I was probably 10 when it happened. 10. 11. And later in life, my ex husband and I actually become friends with her mom, and then she ended up passing away. But I would also like to know if that case could be covered. And then as you do your tie ins, there was actually another young lady who ended up marrying my nephew who disappeared in the early 2000s. Her name was Kimberly Abercrombie when she disappeared. So, yeah, if you could look into those cases, that would be awesome. And like I said, I'm from the little town. It's teeny tiny. We're about an hour, hour and a half in Cincinnati, so we're not too far from you. Um, have a great day. Keep your own time, chicken. Love you guys.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, thanks for the voicemail. We will definitely look into that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Thanks, Mandy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we always love case suggestions. We write them all down, we take a look at them. You know, every now and then. It just. There's not quite enough information to make a full episode, but we'll look into it.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime. All the time unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time. Ticking it.

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