Ben Renick

Summary

True Crime All The Time – Episode 520: Ben Renick

Release Date: August 3, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (aka "Gibby") dig into the fascinating and ultimately tragic story of Ben Renick—a well-known, deeply respected snake breeder found murdered at his Missouri reptile farm in 2017. What began as a mystery (was Ben killed by one of his own giant snakes?) soon morphed into a tangled web of betrayal, infidelity, greed, and murder. The hosts walk through the complex investigation, colorful personalities, and trial(s) that brought the truth to light, while lacing the storytelling with their signature humor and banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: Ben Renick and the Reptile World

• [04:14] Ben Renick's upbringing on a Missouri farm, fascination with snakes, and the creation of Renick Reptiles Inc., which became world-renowned among exotic reptile breeders.
  • “Ben was a rock star in the reptile world.” – Mike Ferguson [09:28]
• Ben’s family history is marked by trauma: he inherited the farm after discovering his father, Frank, had died by suicide amid a Ponzi scheme investigation.
• Marriage to Lindley, a single mother and former massage therapist; together, they had a child and ran both the snake facility and a new day spa.

2. Business Success and Looming Financial Issues

• Ben’s snake business boomed, with over 3,000 snakes including rare and dangerous species. He planned to sell a portion of his collection for $1.2 million.
• Meanwhile, Lindley’s spa business struggled financially. Facebook messages unveiled disputes about money management and suspicions of infidelity.

3. Murder and Initial Investigation

• [10:44–13:00] Ben found dead at his snake facility (June 8, 2017). Initial theory: killed by one of his own massive snakes (his 600 lb anaconda was found missing).
  • “Sam recalled to Dateline, ‘His skull was crushed, so I didn’t know what to think. My first thought was, of course, the snakes.’” – Mike Ferguson [11:53]
• Discovery of shell casings pivots theory from snake attack to homicide: Ben was shot eight times.
  • “My first thought is, I don’t see how his killer thought he was going to be mistaken for being killed by a snake… you shoot someone eight times, it’s not going to be that hard to figure out.” – Mike Ferguson [12:28]

4. Suspects, Motive, and Marital Problems

• Both Lindley and Ben’s brother Sam are questioned. Lindley quickly points suspicion at Sam, citing family property disputes, but Sam is cleared by alibi and polygraph.

• Investigators uncover Lindley’s extramarital affairs (with Eric Bremer, cleared by alibi; then with Brandon Blackwell, and later ex-con Michael Humphrey).

• Lindley’s behavior post-murder raises suspicion: called the life insurance company within days, sold the farm and spa in a matter of weeks, cut off Ben’s family.

  • “If she’s involved in this thing, she is doing herself no favors by the way she’s acting. Why would you want to alienate his family? Why would you want to get out of Dodge so quickly?” – Mike Ferguson [28:07]

5. The Unraveling: Plot, Evidence, and Testimonies

• [29:47] Blackwell eventually tells police Lindley planned the murder, fearing divorce and custody loss. She tried (and failed) to kill Ben by poisoning with Percocet in his shake.
  • “Lindley had confided in him that Ben wanted a divorce. She didn’t want to lose custody of their kids, so she convinced her ex-boyfriend Michael Humphrey to help kill Ben.” – Mike Ferguson [30:43]
• Spa manager Ashley Shaw provided immunity; testifies to providing Lindley with pills and that Lindley tried to involve multiple people (even mused about hiring the "Mexican Mafia").
• Blackwell, Shaw, and another spa employee, Rachel Hunt, all testify about Lindley’s plotting.
  • “There is no loyalty amongst thieves and murderers.” – Mike Gibson [33:23]

6. Trial Outcomes and Legal Maneuvers

• [43:44] Michael Humphrey tried first; claims he was tricked into being Lindley’s “muscle” and didn’t know about the plan to kill Ben, but text evidence and his provision of the murder weapon undercut his defense.
• Humphrey convicted of second-degree murder and armed criminal action, but eligible for parole due to cooperation, including providing the gun.
• Lindley’s defense points the finger at Humphrey, claiming she only wanted a divorce, but prosecution establishes motive (money, custody, infidelity), premeditation, and actions after the murder.
• [65:27] Lindley convicted of second-degree murder and armed criminal action; sentenced to 16 years.
  • "You're awful lucky, ma’am. You're going to get out in your 40s. My 40s weren't too bad. I just hope you don't kill again.” – Judge (as quoted by Mike Ferguson) [66:01]

7. Aftermath, Appeals, and Reflection

• Ben Renick’s snakes were dispersed posthumously, but his legacy continues: a breed called "Renick Ghost" is named in his honor.
• Lindley’s subsequent defamation suit against Blackwell, and appeals filed by Humphrey, have so far been unsuccessful.
• The jury weighed competing accounts, but the combination of multiple converging testimonies and events convinced them of Lindley’s culpability.

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Noteworthy Quotes & Moments

• “If you want to hear me scream like a 10-year-old girl, put a big snake in my path and you will hear it.” – Mike Ferguson [05:00]
• “There’s a lot going on here, dude. And let’s be honest, Lindley is at the heart of everything now.” – Mike Ferguson [29:05]
• "The defense argued Ashley Shaw's testimony was coerced because she feared going to prison." – Mike Ferguson [46:34]
• “She did a lot of stupid things, but her leaving the phone at the spa and asking Ashley to send texts to help create an alibi, it’s all very cunning.” – Mike Ferguson [57:49]

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• [04:14] – Introducing Ben Renick and his rise in the snake breeding world
• [06:11] – Ben inherits the farm following his father’s suicide
• [10:44] – The day of Ben’s death: the crime scene, missing anaconda, and the initial snake-attack theory
• [18:56] – Investigators’ focus shifts as marital and business problems come to light
• [23:10] – Lindley admits to infidelity; unraveling her affairs and financial hardship
• [29:47] – Blackwell flips, revealing Lindley’s murder plot and failed poisoning attempt
• [31:00] – Testimony about involvement of other spa employees, immunity deals
• [43:44] – Michael Humphrey’s trial and conviction
• [65:27] – Lindley’s trial, conviction, and sentencing

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Thematic Takeaways

• Premeditation and Motive: The hosts underline how financial greed, fear of divorce/custody issues, and infidelity all converged into a deadly plot.
• Overconfidence and Sloppiness: Lindley’s willingness to involve multiple people, her quick moves to liquidate assets, and poor attempts at an alibi were ultimately self-defeating.
• Reptile World Community: Despite the outlandish nature of Ben’s business, he is remembered fondly among enthusiasts; his tragic death was a major event for that community.
• Justice System Realities: Deals and plea bargains shape the outcome, with accomplices testifying in exchange for lighter sentences or immunity.

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Tone & Style

The episode skillfully balances grim true crime details with the hosts’ staple light-hearted, conversational humor. Their unscripted tangents (snake phobia, metal band jokes, marriage foibles) keep the heavy material accessible while always respecting the seriousness of the crime.

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For Listeners New to the Case

This detailed walkthrough makes it clear who Ben Renick was, what happened to him, the shifting suspicions during the investigation, and precisely how law enforcement—thanks to immunity offers and testimony from several involved—pieced together one of Missouri’s most bizarre and tragic murder-for-gain plots.

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Memorable Closing Thought:
“When you look at the astronomical amount of money she got out of his death, that's a big motive for murder. And then you throw in the affairs, the pending alleged divorce, she's fearful she might lose custody, all of that. There's motive on top of motive.” – Mike Ferguson [70:40]

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Caller/Listener]

Foreign.

[Mike Ferguson]

And welcome to episode 520 of the True Crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson.

[Mike Gibson]

Gibby, how are you? Yeah, I'm doing good. About you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great, man.

[Mike Gibson]

It's good, man. Doing all right, huh?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Okay, I'm here with you. I'm recording. What else could be better?

[Mike Gibson]

Nothing.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, actually a lot of things. But I just said that, you know, make you feel good.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know why I had to. I don't know why I had to pull the rug out from under you like that.

[Mike Gibson]

We don't know why.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Matt James. Hey, Matt Tierney.

[Mike Gibson]

Ah, tyranny.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you keep wanting to say it as tyranny, like going against the government. Nicole Banning.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Banning.

[Mike Ferguson]

Amanda Mattingly maddening in the house. Cat Johnson jumped out at our highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

I like Kat. Thanks, Kat.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michelle Wald, Billing wall building.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like a fun game.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Kathy B. From Ray, Ohio, jumped out at our highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow, thanks, Kathy.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Linda Fritz.

[Mike Gibson]

I had a good friend named, we'd call him Fritz, wasn't his real name, but we called him Fritz. Got a lot of trouble.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm assuming his first name was not Linda.

[Mike Gibson]

It was not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, well, hey, Linda, it's a great story. Yeah, yeah, it's one of your better ones.

[Mike Gibson]

He got, he was a quick little story. He actually we're in high school. We were jumped over the fence a bunch of other guys and gals and went sort of skinny dipping. Some did some sort of skinny dipped at the community pool and the police showed up and we all jumped over the fence and we all got away except for him. And he decided to jump in the police cruiser and take it for a ride around the cul de sac.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, wow.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. All right. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Good job. Pretty.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

So we have an episode out right now on Unsolved where we're talking about Patty Adkins. In 2001, she clocked out of work, looking forward to going on a trip with her boyfriend who was a married coworker at the same plant where she worked. But she has not been seen or heard from in 25 years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, might be some foul play there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, definitely. And then on next Thursday's TCAT, we're talking about 16 year old David Grunwald, who went missing shortly after dropping his girlfriend off in November 2016.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, now I realize why we didn't do the extra episodes on Friday because then you would have to say on next Friday. And that would be confusing with these shows. The movies.

[Mike Ferguson]

Next Friday. The movie. Yeah, Friday after Next.

[Mike Gibson]

And that one too.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, it's a, it's a very interesting episode in that you have a number of people involved, but seemingly no motive.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I really like that case.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But it's shocking. It is strange. Shocking. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

We are. I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about.

[Commercial Announcer]

We are.

[Caller/Listener]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Ben Renick. Ben was a well known snake breeder who was found dead at his reptile farm in 2017. At first, authorities suspected he was killed by one of his massive snakes, but investigators soon realized Ben was murdered.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm excited about this because as I mentioned on Patreon, I used to be a snake charmer.

[Mike Ferguson]

You did, you did. I've had a lot of jobs in my life.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

One that I've never had, would never have, wouldn't even think about having, would be handling or breeding snakes of any kind.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, because you do not like snakes.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do not.

[Mike Gibson]

You don't even like worms.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you want to hear me scream like a 10 year old girl, put a big snake in my path and you will hear it.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do not like snakes.

[Mike Gibson]

At least you can say I don't like snakes. If you put a big snake in my path, I'm going to walk away. Cool.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I'm going to walk away. No. I might scream like a 10 year old girl.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Benjamin Renick was born on August 4, 1987 in St. Louis, Missouri. He and his brother Sam grew up on their family farm near the city of New Florence, Missouri. They spent their days riding ATVs or exploring the woods. And this was how Ben became fascinated by snakes. He got his first snake at a young age and raising snakes became his passion. I get it. A lot of people like snakes. They have snakes as pets.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm just not one of those individuals. In 2010, Ben started Renick Reptiles Inc. He bred and raised snakes in a facility on the farm and he became a well known figure in the exotic reptile community. Ben sold snakes to buyers all over the world, as far away as the UK and Japan. How do you ship a snake from Missouri to Japan?

[Mike Gibson]

Carefully.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a good answer. In 2012, Ben inherited his family's farm after his father Frank ended his life. Frank shot himself after being implicated in a multi million dollar Ponzi scheme involving fraudulent stock certificates. Sadly, Ben was the one who found his father's body.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh man. It'd be rough this fine, right? Your dad like that and. But it also sounds like his dad was involved in something pretty complex.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And, and maybe also rough to find out that if you didn't know your dad was involved in this massive criminal. Undertaker. In 2011, a year before his father died, Ben reconnected with his future wife, Lindley, whom he met as a teenager. Ben was performing in a metal band at the time. According to Dateline, Lindley was a single mother to a son from a prior relationship and Ben became a second father to her child. Within a year of dating, Ben and Lindley moved in together. So, I mean, you know, there are some similarities between, I think you and Ben. You said it yourself, right? You were a snake charmer. You, you did at one point kind of front a metal band.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, it didn't take off well,

[Mike Ferguson]

that's because you named it after birth, which seemed very strange and off putting to many people.

[Mike Gibson]

But with metal bands, you want that, you know, you want something like you

[Mike Ferguson]

want something edgy but maybe a little less creepy. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So the two had a small wedding in 2014. They had a child together. The family continued living on the farm and Lindley helped Ben raise snakes at the facility on the property. At the height of the business, they had over 3,000 snakes, including species like the anaconda.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's a lot of snakes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I'm kind of like getting the chills right now thinking about it now, you know, little garden snakes. I still don't like them.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I'm not going to be overly scared. I know they can't really hurt you. I don't want to be around an anaconda because I have seen that movie Anaconda.

[Mike Gibson]

Because you ain't got no anaconda.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I got. I think you're forgetting how that sound.

[Mike Gibson]

Good.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe I am, but I just, you know, rattlers, king cobras, anacondas, Any. Anything that can kill you.

[Caller/Listener]

Viper.

[Mike Ferguson]

Vipers. I'm, I'm, I'm not into.

[Mike Gibson]

You probably wouldn't do good if you were one of those passengers on the snakes on the plane.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, no. I would like to hang out with Samuel L. Jackson, though.

[Mike Gibson]

That'd be fun. In a different way.

[Mike Ferguson]

In a different way, Ben attended reptile conventions around the country. According to 48 Hours, he was a rock star in the reptile world. He was known for breeding reticulated pythons. The world's longest snake in captivity.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Nice.

[Mike Ferguson]

He's a rock. He was a rock star in the reptile world.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty cool.

[Caller/Listener]

It is.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, when you think about, you know, something very specific like that, you know, I mean, it's kind of like how you were a rock star in your own world before you went into podcasting. You know, I don't want to mention the subject matter.

[Mike Ferguson]

It'd be better if you didn't.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but I mean, you were well known.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ben's brother Sam also lived on the farm with his family. Sam recalled the 48 hours that they raised their kids together and enjoyed fishing together on the weekends. In 2016, Ben and Lindley opened a day spa in Columbus, which had been a long time dream of Lindley's. She had previously worked as a massage therapist. Around that time, Ben realized that if he sold a portion of his business, he could make a substantial amount of money. According to his brother Sam, he planned to sell the majority of his ball python collection for about $1.2 million.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow, that's nice.

[Mike Ferguson]

Apparently there's some money in snakes.

[Mike Gibson]

So maybe you change your attitude a little bit, maybe?

[Caller/Listener]

No.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. By 2017, the deal was arranged and Ben and Lindley had just received their first payment of $200,000. At the time of Ben's death, on June 8, 2017, Lindley Renick called 911 after finding her husband lying in a pool of blood in the snake facility. She called Sam after calling 911 and he rushed over to the facility. Sam was the one who told first responders Ben may have been killed by a snake. At the time Ben's body was discovered, his 600 pound anaconda had escaped its cage and was nowhere to be found.

[Mike Gibson]

£600?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do you see why I do not want to mess around with snakes? Don't want to tangle with that 600 pound snake. Yeah, I don't think ice cube in them had to deal with that.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't think so either.

[Mike Ferguson]

£600. I actually thought it was A typo at first.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sam recalled the dateline. His skull was crushed, so I didn't know what to think. My first thought was, of course, the snakes.

[Mike Gibson]

And I get that makes sense, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

It does. I mean, anacondas are the ones that kind of crush you to death. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

They like to squeeze.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know a ton about snakes, but I'm. I'm pretty sure about that one. And if you have a 600 pound anaconda who is loose, I don't think it's a far reach to think that he might have been killed by this snake.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Coroner Dave Colbert arrived and found shell casings at the scene. Authorities soon confirmed Ben wasn't killed by a snake. He had been shot eight times, once at close range. So my first thought is I don't see how his killer thought he was going to be mistaken for being killed by a snake. I mean, you leave shell casings behind and you shoot someone eight times, it's not going to be that hard to figure out.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. That's not my first question. My first question is, where the hell's the snake?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that's true.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because we haven't figured that part out yet. And I'm sure they were on the lookout for it.

[Mike Gibson]

I probably like every time you heard something, you turned your head real quick. Was that the snake?

[Mike Ferguson]

My thought is it's going to be a little bit of a different crime scene for some of these investigators than what they're used to. They're used to seeing dead bodies.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they're used to working murders and all that. I doubt many of them are used to having to worry about a 600 pound snake who could be around the corner at this crime scene. You want to talk about keeping your head on a swivel.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I wouldn't have to because I'm sitting in the car.

[Mike Gibson]

You're not coming in.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm actually not even leaving the station. You just call me and I'll talk to you over the radio. Because I would be scared that this 600 pound snake might crush the car. I don't know what kind of snake we're talking about here.

[Mike Gibson]

It probably find you because it will sense the fear in your sweat.

[Mike Ferguson]

It'll crawl up through some vital hole in the car somehow and get me one early theory was that Ben's murder was a robbery gone wrong. Perhaps someone knew the value of the snakes and wanted to take them. However, all the snakes were eventually accounted for. And obviously there was a lot of money in these snakes. Right? We just said a portion of the python collection was going to go for like $1.2 million. I just think if you're going to steal something, maybe you pick something that can't eat you or kill you.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's a good point.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, maybe diamonds or cash or a bank or something like that.

[Mike Gibson]

But if you're in that industry and you're comfortable with that and you know where the value is at, you could potentially come in there and kind of cherry pick what you want.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but if you did, if you're a snake wrangler, then I guess it wouldn't be that big a deal to you. Sam and Lindley were brought in for questioning on the day of the murder. It was said that they were both cooperative. Both of them tested negative for gunshot residue. In his interview, Sam said he could never imagine Lynley would want to harm her husband. During her interview, she told investigators she spent the day at her spa. She got a call that the kids hadn't been picked up from school and she couldn't get a hold of him. She picked up the kids and then found Ben's body. When she got home, police asked her if Ben was possibly killed by a business rival, a disgruntled customer or resentful family member. Lindley suggested the police look at his brother Sam.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Quickly to call out Sam.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it's interesting because Sam says, oh, there's no way Lindley would have killed Ben, but she's the exact opposite. She kind of threw him under the bus right away.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to Lindley, Sam and Ben were in a feud over the family farm. Lindley and Ben owned the farm, but Sam wanted half. Sam told Dateline that he and Ben planned to divide the property. Sam was ruled out as a suspect when his alibi was verified, he also agreed to a polygraph and passed.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I guess it made it a little awkward moving forward from that point when those two had to get together for anything.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, once he finds out that she kind of directed the police his way, but, you know, he seemed very cooperative, agreed to a polygraph, passed that they also verified his alibi. You know, folks, my wife and I, we're dog obsessed. We have two small eight pound Malteses. One is 13 years old, the other is two years old, there's nothing we wouldn't do for them. They really are our babies now that our two girls are grown adults. And if anyone gets dog obsessed, it's Ollie. They deliver fresh human grade food in five drool worthy flavors. So that My dogs can live their best life too. You could say Ollie Feeds the Obsession. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut friendly ingredients that support better digestion, energy, skin health and even poops. And from the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored to your puppy. The meals are perfectly portioned and you even get a puptainer a scoop for easy storing and serving. My oldest dog has always been obsessed with food, but my younger dog is a picky eater. But here's the thing, they both love Ollie. So get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com tcat Tell them all about your dog and use code TCATT to get 70% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, it's risk free with their Obsession guarantee. That's O l l I e.com tcat and enter code tcat to get 70% off your first box. Ali Feed the Obsession As a small

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators looked into Lindley's social media activity and learned that there were problems in the marriage. Facebook messages between Ben and Lindley revealed that Ben knew the spa was losing money and Lindley had lied to him about it. Ben told Lindley she was behind on loan, rent and staff payments. Messages from the spring of 2017 also showed that Ben was suspicious Lindley was having an affair.

[Mike Gibson]

What's that old saying, you point a finger at me, there's three more pointing back at you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I have never heard that in my life. That could be a saying, I've just never heard it.

[Mike Gibson]

Or I just made it up right there. Now I am the owner of that saying. Please use it as much as you

[Mike Ferguson]

want out there, but pay me my royalties. But here's the thing that really kind of jumped out at me and I guess I questioned is these two are married, why are they Facebook messaging each other? You know, my wife and I, we just talk to each other or she might call me on the phone. Sometimes even when we're in the house, she just doesn't want to walk downstairs. We don't message each other on Facebook back and forth. That seems so strange.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't even know what you would do if you did, because I have text you, and I could text you three sentences, and your reply will be back. Your reply back to me, at best will be three words.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's usually going to be okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Or sure, you are not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or no, most likely no.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You are not a big conversationalist.

[Caller/Listener]

No.

[Mike Gibson]

Not even a mild conversationalist, which is

[Mike Ferguson]

strange, because I do talk for a living.

[Mike Gibson]

You do?

[Mike Ferguson]

I know, but it's the whole sending Facebook messages when you're married and you live in the same house. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, maybe he's out, you know, wrangling a snake, and she's at the, you know, parlor, you know, rubbing, I guess, somebody down, like, hey, what do we want for dinner tonight?

[Mike Ferguson]

By the way, I think you're having an affair. Yeah, I mean, just seems like things that would be best said face to face, I guess. Yeah. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, unless the police are saying they saw messages on her Facebook account that made them believe she might be having

[Mike Ferguson]

an affair, the research said Facebook messages between Ben and Lynn.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah. So there you go.

[Mike Ferguson]

I guess. If you did want a message, why not just send a text? Why do it through Facebook? And maybe a lot of people listening are saying, what are you talking about? Tons of people do that. And maybe they do. That's just not me.

[Mike Gibson]

Let's start messing. You on WhatsApp? Mm, yeah. WhatsApp.

[Mike Ferguson]

Who's on first? Yeah, no, I don't have that. I don't have a lot of apps, especially when it comes to social media. And if I do have them, they're not on my phone.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

They're only on my iPad for the podcast.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I'm not sitting and looking at them all the time. But this is a big deal.

[Mike Gibson]

Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators are kind of getting the idea that this marriage might not be solid, might have some problems, not looking good. And there's also a thought here that Lindley is having money problems. Hours before he was killed, Ben sent Lindley a message that said, no more lying. No more keeping things from me. No more not paying people and thinking it's okay to pay later.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it sounds like he was a good business person, like, he understood how business worked, how, you know, he was successful in running his business. And it sounds like she didn't have that skill set that he had.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe she didn't have the same business acumen.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Eleven days after the murder, police questioned Lindley again, and they just flat out asked her if she was seeing someone else to Their surprise, they. She was honest and admitted to having an affair.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, there it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, that is your.

[Mike Gibson]

Whoa.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's your whole.

[Mike Gibson]

There it is.

[Caller/Listener]

Your thought.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, there it is. So she said that she had an affair with a man named Eric Bremer, who was cleared once his alibi was verified. And that's, you know, if you're the guy having the affair, well, shame on you. You shouldn't be having an affair with a married woman. There's a husband somewhere else. You're. You're hurting. But, you know, she's thrusting him now into this murder investigation because would he potentially have a reason to kill Ben?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think there's some thrusting going

[Mike Ferguson]

on, and nobody wants to be thrusted like that. Detectives talked to spa manager Ashley Shaw, who said that Lindley actually had a couple of affairs.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators learned that she was also seeing a man named Brandon Blackwell, who she met on a dating website. Police interviewed Blackwell, who confirmed the affair and told an investigator he was in love with Lindley. So, I mean, undoubtedly, she wasn't being faithful. She wasn't just being unfaithful. She was cheating on Ben with a number of men.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. She was being unfaithful to him and her other lovers.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know if that's possible, but I. I kind of get your thought

[Mike Gibson]

there, but here we go, Right? You know, here's a couple that, if you don't know any better, it looks. They look really good, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. From the outside, they have this really successful business.

[Mike Gibson]

They're going to make a substantial amount of money selling off part of it. And, you know, they got this new business in Columbus going with the spa. Everything's good.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm sure if you probably. If they were people who put stuff on Facebook and Instagram, if you just looked at those things.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You'd probably think like, this is the couple that has it going on.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But behind the scenes, things are not as good as. As they might appear. And unfortunately, I think that's true with quite a few marriages. Police learned that Lindley was the sole beneficiary of Ben's $1 million life insurance policy. Witnesses reported that she called the insurance company days after Ben died to find out when she could get the money.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, this always drives me crazy. I mean, your loved one just died. Are you hurting up for money that bad that you have to make that call? And if you did do this, you mean slow play this thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're not making yourself look good, right? Yeah, I'm kind of with you, I think she was hurting for money. But my thought is always you would be so grief stricken that although that's a lot of money, it would. Wouldn't be the first thing on most people's minds, I wouldn't think so. It's your grieving for your. Your husband. You've got to figure out funeral arrangements and just all of this stuff. Not to mention the fact you're being interviewed by police at the same time. So, yeah, to be calling within a couple of days is. Is a little strange. In total, Investigators interviewed Lindley six times. On October 5, 2017, she took a polygraph and was informed she had failed. By this time, investigators knew that on the day of the murder, Lindley texted and called her ex boyfriend, Michael Humphrey, numerous times. Michael was recently out of prison after serving time for drug possession charges.

[Mike Gibson]

Number guy, number three. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now maybe he's back in the mix. We don't know. At one point in the interview, Lindley seemed pretty close to breaking. But she continued to deny any involvement in her husband's murder. And with no witnesses and no murder weapon, she was released without being arrested. After the murder, Ben's snakes were dispersed and sold to reptile experts and enthusiasts.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm sure a good penny was made.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I guarantee it. Weeks after her husband's death, Lindley sold the farm, closed her spa and left town.

[Mike Gibson]

Not months.

[Mike Ferguson]

Weeks, not. Yeah, not months. Not a year later. Weeks after her husband's murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it was said that Ben's family tried to be understanding, but when she refused to talk to them or take Ben's belongings, they sensed something was wrong. And you kind of said it earlier, Gibbs.

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Slow. Play it if you're guilty. If she's involved in this thing, she is doing herself no favors whatsoever by the way she's acting. Why would you want to alienate his family? Why would you want to kind of get out of Dodge so quickly? It all just makes you look like you're trying to hide something very guilty. Lindley and Brandon Blackwell continued their relationship. A year after Ben was killed, Lindley was pregnant with Brandon's child.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that didn't take long.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, it took about a year.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Only took a few months to get pregnant.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know at what point she became pregnant. Yeah, there was nothing in the research about the exact day and time of the conception.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I'm just doing the simple math. I'm going back nine months from a year.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it just said she was pregnant. We don't know how far along she was.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

By then, though, the relationship had deteriorated. Brandon was arrested for assault, and Lindley was granted a protective order. Brandon violated the terms of the order and and was jailed for felony stalking. There is a lot going on here, dude. And let's be honest. Lindley is at the heart of everything now. She's the victim, technically here in this part. She had to get a. A protective order against this guy. He was ultimately sent to jail for felony stalking. But investigators hope that after the breakup, Brandon would be willing to talk to them.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know, a scorn lover.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. And if you think somebody is involved at the moment that the relationship changes or ends, that might be the time that they're willing to turn on their partner. On January 14, 2020, Brandon was ready for an interview with the police. And it had been by this time over two years since Ben was murdered. Brandon made a surprising claim, and it was that Lindley planned the murder. Lindley had confided in him that Ben wanted a divorce. She didn't want to lose custody of their kids, so she convinced her ex boyfriend, Michael Humphrey, to help kill Ben. She wanted Michael to kill him, but he wasn't comfortable doing it. So Lindley was the one who actually pulled the trigger.

[Caller/Listener]

Wow.

[Mike Gibson]

The truth is coming out, and it's pretty cold blooded.

[Caller/Listener]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Did you get the reference there?

[Mike Gibson]

I did. Cold blooded. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

What does it mean?

[Mike Gibson]

Snakes are cold blooded.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. I just wanted to make sure you got it.

[Mike Gibson]

I did take a special reptile course at Mensa.

[Mike Ferguson]

So they offer courses now, do they?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, only to their elite members.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know what's funnier, the fact that you say you're in Mensa or that you're an elite member of mensa.

[Mike Gibson]

It's for those people who have that extra higher number.

[Mike Ferguson]

Extra higher number.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. We call it the EHN. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

If you have it and if you're out there, you know who you are. No. Yeah. You receive the green. It's like a forest green card. We go with that because it's earthy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Also funny, the fact that you think extra higher number is grammatically correct.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a play on number on words that we do. Because if you. If you're not in the know, it's

[Mike Ferguson]

like a hole that you're just constantly digging.

[Mike Gibson]

Wait, did you hear the doorbell? Doorbell's ring. Go check it. I'll be back.

[Mike Ferguson]

I didn't hear it. Brandon also knew that before the shooting, Lindley tried to kill Ben by drugging his protein shake. He implicated spa manager Ashley Shaw in this scheme. Lynn reached out to Michael Humphrey. After this failed, Ashley was brought in for an interview and was quick to turn on her former boss once she was offered immunity in exchange for her testimony. According to Ashley, Lindley claimed Ben was abusing her and asked if she could get pills to kill her husband. Ashley obtained Percocet and gave it to Lindley.

[Mike Gibson]

Why are so many people involved in wanting to kill Ben?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think it's because Lindley's at the heart of it all and she's reaching out. She's talking to a lot of different people. She's trying to get, you know, others involved. Now here's my thing we mentioned earlier, right? She wasn't paying her staff, right?

[Caller/Listener]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't pay your staff. You sell the spa. At what point does your former employee actually kind of no longer have allegiance to you and is okay with giving you up? Now, she was involved. They had to give her immunity to do it, but she gave her up.

[Mike Gibson]

There is no loyalty amongst thieves and murderers, but definitely not now.

[Mike Ferguson]

But here's the thing for me, right? You can't involve all these different people in a murder plot and then turn around and treat them like crap.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it's going to go bad for you.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. But people do it time after time. We see it happened quite a bit. Hey, can we talk about banks for a minute? You know, when I was young and I'm talking 19, 20, 21 years old, I felt like my bank was hitting me with fees from every angle. And you know, let's be honest, at that age you don't make a lot of money and everything counts. My younger self would have benefited so much from Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. They're not like those traditional old banks who charge fees and gatekeep perks and rewards. Chime offers the most rewarding fee free banking all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees and no minimum balance fees. You get 5% cash back on chime card in a category of your choice like gas or groceries. All while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. And if you're ever in a pinch, spot Me lets you overdraft up to $200 fee free. So join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com tcat that's chime.com tcatt Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a Bank Banking Services and Chime Card provided by Chime's Bank Partners. Qualifying direct deposits required terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details from Geico Subconscious News.

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[Mike Ferguson]

I sure am, Tammy. And I don't even know why I drove out here because as you know, you got customized renters insurance through Geico, so your stuff is covered.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh, well, that's great. Any sign of crime there, Art?

[Mike Ferguson]

Just some light littering, Tammy. But like they say, a little litter

[Commercial Announcer]

can lead to a lot. Wise words. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ashley confirmed that Lindley contacted Michael Humphrey when this plot failed. Lindley initially claimed Michael was the shooter, but later admitted to shooting Ben herself. I mean, she is really not only a mastermind, but I mean, she is heartless. She is in this whole thing.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if she's guilty shooting your husband to kill him and it's not forget, I mean, it's the father of her kids. How could you do that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, he was the biological father to one, but it sounded like he was really a father to her other children as well. Yeah, he loved them, you know, helped take care of them. On January 16, 2020, Lindley, Renick and Michael Humphreys were arrested and charged with murder and armed criminal action. Humphrey went to trial first in October 2021. Prosecutors told the jury that Humphrey drove Lindley to the farm on the day of the murder. The defense acknowledged this fact, but denied that Humphrey gave Lindley the gun used in the shooting. The defense argued that Humphrey was lured to the Snake Farm by Lindley, who said she wanted protection from Ben. He had no idea she planned to kill Ben and was shocked when she shot him. But Assistant Attorney General Kevin Zellner said Humphrey's claim that he knew nothing of Lindley's plot doesn't fly with common sense. He pointed out texts between Lindley and Humphrey hours after Ben was shot, which appeared to show them arranging for Humphrey to set up another massage appointment at Lindley Spa. Okay, yeah, I see where he's going with this. If you don't know anything about it and you're so shocked when she shoots her husband, are you then going to act like nothing happened? Are you going to send kind of innocuous messages back and forth about setting up an appointment at the spa for a massage? No, probably not.

[Mike Gibson]

No. No. You know, you shouldn't want anything involved at that point.

[Mike Ferguson]

And not to mention the fact that, you know, obviously he never went to police or, you know, never said anything about it.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, he did just get out of prison, so I'm pretty sure he was also worried about being sent back.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I get that. But if that's the case, maybe shouldn't get involved in a murder plot.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. Stay away from that stuff.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense focused on Lindley Renick and Ashley Shaw's role in the murder plot, telling the jury that the women came up with the details and left Humphrey out of most of it, other than recruiting him to drive to the farm. The jury heard Humphrey's interview from the day of his arrest where he said he didn't know of Lindley's plan to kill Ben. He went to the farm with Lindley to help her get her belongings as she ended her marriage with Ben. He thought he was there to make sure things didn't get out of hand. When they got out of the car, she tried handing him a gun, which he pushed away. Humphrey said he didn't see the gun. After that, he and Lindley met Ben at the snake barn. Only 10 seconds after they walked in, he heard the first gunshot. He then ran out to the car. It's not the worst story I've ever heard.

[Mike Gibson]

No, but is it believable?

[Caller/Listener]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because I don't tend to believe most defendants, but it's not the wackiest, most implausible thing a defendant has ever come up with.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, once you saw she had a gun, why would you even get out of the car and walk up there with her knowing that you just got out of prison? You know, this is probably not going

[Mike Ferguson]

to go well, but I do think when you pair it with some of the messages that came afterward.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Then it tends to make it a little more implausible. Right. Hey, make sure you set up an appointment for a massage. Even though I just killed somebody?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, that. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[Mike Gibson]

It doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if you just had the story and nothing else to go with it, maybe a jury could say it's plausible.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lindley's former boyfriend, Brandon Blackwell, testified at Humphrey's trial, telling the jury Lindley confessed to him that she and spa manager Ashley Shaw plotted to kill Ben with Humphrey's help. Here again, right? You tell someone the details of a murder who you then later break up with and file a restraining order against or a protective order against. Yeah, okay. That person's probably not going to be real happy and at some point might be eager to help the police in your prosecution.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you don't want to be with me? I'm going to show you what I'm going to do to you now.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, at the same time, the jury has to weigh his credibility as they do with. With everyone. And he has some things going against him, you know, namely some violence, a protective order, things like that. And maybe a good reason to get back at her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

On October 20, 2021, Michael Humphrey was found guilty of second degree murder and armed criminal action. He received a life sentence, but was granted the possibility of parole. And because he agreed to testify against

[Mike Gibson]

Lindley, man, I am pretty certain he is hating the fact that he reconnected with his previous girlfriend coming out of prison.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes, because he had just gotten out of prison. He could have started his life over. He could have walked the straight narrow, met somebody new, made the best of it, and now he's going to potentially spend the rest of his life back in prison.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm pretty sure those massages were not worth it all.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you're using air quotes. So you think this was not a reputable massage place?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm thinking he got special attention.

[Mike Ferguson]

That could be. Yeah, that could be. But here's another smart thing, right, that the prosecution does. Hey, we'll give you the possibility of parole if you testify against Lindley. And these are the types of deals they have to make all the time, for sure. After the conviction, Humphrey admitted he provided the murder weapon and told investigators where they could find it. It was hidden in his girlfriend's mother's attic.

[Mike Gibson]

Good for him because he had has it still for me, I never understand why people hold on to those things, like get rid of it. Break it down in multiple pieces and get rid of it. Why are you doing holding on to it?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but like you said, good for him. Because if he didn't have it, maybe he's not able to make the deal.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He can definitely make this deal because he has concrete evidence. But I'm with you. I don't know why murderers keep those weapons. It's only going to hurt them if it's found. While preparing for Lindley's trial, her defense requested to keep Brandon Blackwell out of the proceedings because he invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. During a May and November 2021 deposition, he refused to talk about his pending stalking case stemming from his violation of the protective order granted to Lindley. The judge approved the defense's request. And that's a blow to the prosecution.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure it is.

[Caller/Listener]

Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Not having this guy, not being able to call him. Lindley's murder trial started in December 2021. In opening statements, the prosecution told the jury that Lindley plotted to kill Ben twice and was assisted by spa manager Ashley Shaw and her ex boyfriend, Michael Humphrey. She first tried to kill him by drugging his protein shake. Ben became sick but didn't die. And then two weeks later, she shot him eight times. Lindley didn't want to divorce Ben because she was scared of losing custody of the children. Ben was also in the process of selling part of his business, like we said.

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

For 1.2 million. And she was the sole beneficiary of his $1 million life insurance policy.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

She wanted that money. Right. The 1 million, 1.2 and whatever. Whatever else they would eventually get for all the other reptiles.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she sold the farm. And the farm, which was allegedly supposed to be divided with Sam.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it sounds like she sold the whole thing, took the money and ran. But, you know, people kill for a lot less. This is quite a bit of money.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense said Lindley and Ben were infatuated with each other and supportive of each other's businesses. And however they fell out of love because Lindley was a victim of unwanted sexual advances and abuse from Ben. Lindley confided this to Michael Humphrey. Now, I understand the abuse, but I'm not sure about the unwanted sexual advances.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe she just didn't want him from Ben.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I think that's what. That's what. Exactly what it was saying. But husbands often make advances towards their wives that are shot down. I don't think that's criminal.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're married for a while, you're going to hear that. No, a lot. I mean, you hear it probably what, two, three, four times a week at the.

[Mike Ferguson]

At least it's not a day over 30 years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I never thought about being charged criminally for that. But. No. And I'm again, kind of joking around here, but I'm definitely separating that from any abuse.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is being alleged. It just said unwanted sexual advances. I believe there are a lot of unwanted sexual advances in any marriage. It's just that one of the individuals in the marriage says no.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Or, honey, I got a headache.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes, that happens all the time. So I was a little confused by that. Maybe there's something more to it that I'm not thinking.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, potentially, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now that doesn't mean everything, right? You could scrub, you could get maybe rid of it or whatever for police get there. But I think this is their only shot.

[Mike Gibson]

But what's the motive for Michael versus her?

[Mike Ferguson]

Because he wants to be with her.

[Mike Gibson]

Wants to be with her.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe he thinks Ben is abusing her and that's what she's told him. Again, you could See how the defense could kind of craft it and maybe just plant that seed of doubt in the jury's mind.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't think Ashley Shaw was coerced. I think she had to do what was needed to protect herself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, if she has the opportunity, why would she not want to cut a deal? Right. She was involved in this thing. Maybe not in the ultimate murder, but she did give over the pills when Lindley tried to poison Ben.

[Mike Gibson]

And it's true. She. She brought the Percocets. She.

[Mike Ferguson]

She was going to be charged with that. So I. I do think she was covering herself.

[Mike Gibson]

It is amazing how many people had some type of involvement or conversations about Ben needing to be taken out.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, we talk about that in many episodes. Killers are either solitary, meaning they don't tell anybody, or they tell a bunch of people, and they try to recruit a bunch of people into their endeavors. And it's like, okay, they don't think that these people are going to turn on them later on if. If things go south. I just don't get it in this

[Mike Gibson]

case, especially when you treat those people badly.

[Caller/Listener]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that was a weird kind of strange thing for Lindley to do, knowing what the stakes were. Lindley's ex boyfriend, Eric Bremer, testified that his affair with Lindley started in 2016 and continued for several months after Ben's murder. Ashley Shaw testified that she was aware Lindley had multiple affairs and that the spa was in financial decline. She lied to the police out of fear when she was arrested, and I could understand why she would be afraid, but I don't think she was afraid of police. I think she was afraid that it was going to be found out, that she knew Lindley wanted to kill Ben and that she actually gave her the Percocet pill. Lindley asked her to help kill Ben and explained to her that divorce was not an option. Ashley agreed to help her, and they talked about how they would kill Ben. Ashley obtained 12 to 15 Percocet pills and gave them to Lindley. She testified that she regretted this and called it the biggest mistake she ever made. Lindley blended the Percocet into Ben's protein shake. He got sick and vomited, but didn't die. After this plot failed, Lindley brought up the idea of getting Michael Humphrey involved because she believed he had guns. Lindley told Ashley she couldn't afford the fee that the Mexican Mafia charged for a hit and that Michael would give her a gun.

[Mike Gibson]

So she must have did some research on what that fee Might have been

[Mike Ferguson]

or talked to some people or. Yeah, something. But also, you're hearing here that Ashley was very involved in all of these discussions.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you can understand why she wanted to cut a deal.

[Mike Gibson]

She needed to.

[Mike Ferguson]

They Googled Michael's address and found him. Ashley even went with her to his home. They talked to him about how they needed his help, and Michael provided Lindley with a gun. According to Ashley, on the night of the murder, Ben and Lindley were supposed to go on a date. But Lindley told Ben she wasn't feeling well. Lindley texted Ben and asked him to pick up the kids from school. Michael and Lindley then went to the snake facility together to kill Ben in an attempt to hide her location. At the time of the murder. Lindley asked Ashley to text Ben from her phone, which she left at the spa. But Ashley didn't send any texts out of fear. Lindley came back to the spa after killing Ben and asked Ashley to help her scrub her body and hands. And there again, that is probably why they didn't find any gunshot residue on her when they did the test.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, she scrubbed him out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michael then showed up and asked Lindley whether Ashley knew what happened. Lindley stated that Ashley didn't know, and Michael left shortly after. Later, Lindley asked Ashley to warn Michael that the police would contact him about Ben's murder. Lindley then got a call from the school that the kids weren't picked up. She picked them up and went back to the farm to discover Ben's body. Michael Humphrey testified that he agreed to help Lindley after she told him Ben was sexually abusing her. She told him about the unsuccessful poisoning attempt. She asked whether he knew anyone that could help her kill Ben. Michael told Lindley he would think about whether he knew someone. On the afternoon of June 8, 2017, Michael picked Lindley up from the spa and drove to the snake breeding facility for what he thought was a discussion between Ben and Lindley. He anticipated the meeting would end with a peaceful resolution. He entered the snake house with Lindley and she told Ben he was an old high school friend who was there to check out the snakes. Ben walked towards the snake containers. Michael stayed by the doorway and Lindley followed. Michael heard a gunshot and saw Lindley standing there holding the gun. He heard several more gunshots as he left the building. Lindley then came running outside and told him to drive. He didn't recall seeing any blood on her. He admitted to lying and leaving out details and said he eventually told the state police where the gun was and I think, Gibbs, you can see why it was so important for the prosecution to have both Ashley and Michael.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Critical.

[Mike Ferguson]

They needed them to corroborate, you know, all of this evidence, or really lack of evidence, but their theory of what Lindley had done, you know, put the gun in Lindley's hand, put her as the shooter. They needed both these people.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, it helped tie the whole story together.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, I don't know if Michael was being a hundred percent truthful. It did seem to me like he potentially was softening his part a little bit, you know, saying, well, I didn't know it was going to happen. I just thought we were. We were going out there to. For them to talk, and I was going to stand by for protection. Maybe that's true. Or maybe he knew she was going to kill him. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

But if you bring a gun to something like that, you know, it could go bad.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. And he gave her the gun. Yeah, but did he need to lie? Right. Normally, when you make a deal, you don't need to lie.

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Although some deals, if you implicate yourself in the actual murder, the deal goes away. So there could be a part of that here as well. Spa employee Rachel Hunt, who was also offered immunity, testified that Lindley told her on June 8 that she and Michael were going to kill Ben.

[Mike Gibson]

Telling another person, hey, I'm going to kill Ben.

[Mike Ferguson]

She's just talking about this at the spa to all her employees.

[Mike Gibson]

She must really thought these other girls were part of her squad, and they

[Mike Ferguson]

were tight, and they were. They would never turn on her.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I tell you what, you get offered immunity, people will turn quickly. No doubt about it. And let's not forget, at one point, she stopped paying them. The spa closed. So really, any allegiance they had to her at some point was probably broken. Anyway, the prosecution noted that Lindley called and texted Ben expressing concern when she knew he was dead. Those texts and calls were meant to create an alibi. And the one thing I will say is, you know, she did plan quite a bit of this out.

[Mike Gibson]

She did.

[Mike Ferguson]

She did a lot of stupid things, but, you know, leaving the phone behind at the spa and asking Ashley to send texts to help create an alibi. Yeah, sending, you know, these texts to Ben, hey, I'm getting worried about you. Things like that, you know, it's all very cunning. The prosecution noted that in the hours after the murder, Lindley texted and talked to the man she was having an affair with. Additionally, shell casings recovered from the crime scene matched the gun Michael Humphrey said was used to kill Ben. And I think all of this is very damning. I mean, just hours after the murder, you're texting and talking to this guy you're having an affair with. We know just like two days after the murder, she's calling the insurance company. And then I think, you know, once Michael provides the gun and it turns out that the bullet casings match. Okay. Pretty hard to argue that that gun was not involved. Now you can argue who pulled the trigger.

[Mike Gibson]

Can do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense called on a childhood friend, a nurse, and Lindley's father to testify that Lindley was hysterical after discovering Ben's body. She was an emotional wreck. She wouldn't eat or drink, and at one point was so dehydrated she had to be hospitalized and given I.V. fluids.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, but she could call her ex boyfriend.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And she was okay calling the insurance company.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, some critical details to get that policy going.

[Mike Ferguson]

But even if you're not broken up about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is it in your best interest to be hysterical to play the part of the. The grieving wife?

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe you. You don't drink anything, so you do become dehydrated and you have to be taken to the hospital. It kind of all works in your favor.

[Mike Gibson]

It's all acting 101.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lindley decided to testify in her own defense. She told the jury that she wanted to divorce Ben, not kill him. She did say she had three affairs while they were married. She also described aspects of her relationship with Ben. For example, she testified that Ben became angry with her one morning because she didn't wake up one night while he was having sex with her. Okay. I don't know how that happens, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I guess it can happen. I think it'd be weird.

[Mike Ferguson]

It might go back to what she was calling unwanted sexual advances, but to me, that's. You've gone past the part of an advance.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To me, an advance is, hey, honey, do you want to go to the rumpus room?

[Mike Gibson]

It's what she's trying to say. It's more of an assault.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

She.

[Mike Ferguson]

That she's describing an assault while she's asleep.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's why I was kind of saying earlier I was real fuzzy on the unwanted sexual advances versus the abuse, because to me, those are two very different things. Now, if you're not married to someone, obviously, sexual advances get real tricky. If you are married, they're kind of part of married life, and they're either reciprocated or, in my case, they're often turned down.

[Mike Gibson]

And for good reason.

[Mike Ferguson]

And for good reason. She said the real reason she wanted a divorce was because Ben resented the time she spent with the children. She felt he wanted her to choose him over the kids. I gotta be honest with you. If I'm a juror, I'm not really buying that one.

[Mike Gibson]

And it's hard to buy it. Right, because he is not there to provide his side of the story.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. He can't defend himself, obviously. Now, could someone resent the amount of time you spend with your children? Yeah, obviously it could happen. Is that how most people feel? I would say no. Let's not forget one of the. The children was his biologically.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the others, it seemed like he cared for a great deal.

[Mike Gibson]

Like they were his own.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Lindley testified that she brought Michael to the Snake farm that day because she was worried Ben would get physical. She was thinking about how to bring up divorce. When she and Michael arrived at the facility, Ben was outside taking the trash. She took the trash, and when she went back inside the facility, she saw Michael pull the gun on Ben. She screamed and ran outside and then heard more gunshots.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, if you were that concerned that things could get physical, why even go confront somebody? Do it on the phone, right? Do it through an attorney.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or remember we talked about earlier, the massive amounts of Facebook texts or messages that they sent each other, which I thought was strange, but here, this might be a time to send some type of message rather than have a face to face meeting if you think it's going to get out of hand. Lindley testified that she didn't know exactly what happened. In her words, she suspected something happened, but she didn't want to believe it. She was frozen with fear when Michael emerged and ordered her to get in the car. She didn't recall what was said in the 40, 50 minute ride back to the spa. Ashley helped her clean up, but she was still out of it. Okay. So a question I would have is if you're not in there when Ben is shot, why do you need to clean up so much?

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

When you clean it up, you wouldn't have gun residue. You theoretically shouldn't have any blood on you because you weren't in there.

[Mike Gibson]

There's nothing to scrub off of you.

[Mike Ferguson]

She didn't want to believe Ben had been killed and regretted lying to police about being at the facility when Ben was shot. She realized Ben had been shot to death. When she returned to the Snake Farm after picking the kids up from school, Lindley testified that she was hysterical and told an EMT a snake could not have done this. She lied to the police during the six interviews she had before she was arrested. She never told them Michael was the killer and tried to throw police off his trail by pointing the finger at Ben's brother Sam. And I think all of that goes against her.

[Mike Gibson]

It does. And I don't think she was trying to throw the scent off of Michael. I think she was trying to throw the scent off of her by calling out Sam.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm with you 100%. But when you then later get on the stand at trial and, and try to bring these things up. Yeah, they're not going to fly. Because everything you've said on record before this doesn't match. Right. If you stick with the same story all the way through, well, maybe then when you get on the stand, the jury might believe you, but they're not going to believe this.

[Mike Gibson]

Even if, you know, if she lied once to the police and then came clean. But, you know, she said she lied. All six interviews, she lied. She doubled down on what she thought she needed to do and it didn't work out for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

On December 9, 2021, Lindley was found guilty of second degree murder and armed criminal action. The jury recommended 16 years in prison, 13 years for murder and three years for armed criminal action. On January 24, 2022, the judge upheld the jury's recommendation for sentencing. The judge told Lindley, per ABC 17. You're awful lucky, ma'. Am. You're going to get out in your 40s. And my 40s weren't too bad. I just hope you don't kill again.

[Mike Gibson]

She really got lucky.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think she got extremely lucky. I feel like this was extremely light. But again, she was found guilty of second degree murder. Right. Not first degree murder. And to me, this really was first degree murder. Because if she killed him, she undoubtedly planned it out not once, but twice.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe just the jury felt they could make the second degree murder stick. Maybe because they weren't 100% that she did it all on her own.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, who knows, right? We weren't in the. In the jury room, Ben's brother Sam read a statement on behalf of the family. He said Lindley made up a web of lies to cover up the crime, adding, she led me directly to my brother's dead body, then put on a show and Act. In February 2022, Lindley filed a defamation lawsuit against her ex boyfriend, Brandon Blackwell, alleging he lied to investigators about the murder. Lindley's attorney, Connie Sullivan, told ABC17 he had criminal charges pending that he was trying to get out of. He took the fifth and didn't testify. So the jury and the court never got to hear the statement that started the charges against Lindley. Prosecutors dropped the stalking charges against Blackwell following Lindley's conviction. And this case appeared in an episode of Dateline this summer. Lindley's legal team told Dateline that no prints, gunshot residue or DNA were recovered at the scene. They also noted that Michael Humphrey, Ashley Shaw, and Rachel Hunt had something to gain by cooperating with authorities.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, they had deals.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think there's any doubt that they did have something to gain by cooperating. Most people do, and that's why they cooperate. In an interview with Dateline, Lindley denied killing Ben, saying, out of everybody here, I had the most to lose. I lost everything. With Ben dying, that's a tough statement to make because out of everyone, she actually had the most to gain.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, she got the life insurance policy. She got the all the money from the sale of the farm and the reptiles.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now I think she's arguing I had the most to lose because I lost

[Mike Gibson]

Ben, but she didn't want Ben because she was having multiple affairs.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I get it, but what is she going to say?

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

In January 2023, Michael Humphrey filed an appeal seeking a new trial. Michael's attorneys argued the judge should not have allowed a key witness to testify about what a co defendant in the case told him about who killed Ben. Brandon Blackwell should not have been allowed to testify at trial. Blackwell told investigators that Lindley told him about the shooting when they started dating after Ben's death. Blackwell claimed Lindley recruited Michael to help her get a gun and kill Ben. Michael's defense argued that this testimony was was inadmissible hearsay. His defense did not object to this at trial. In August 2023, Michael Humphrey lost his appeal to the Missouri Court of Appeals. The court ruled that because the state lowered the first degree murder charge to second degree murder and dropped the armed criminal action charge, Humphrey gave up his right to a direct appeal.

[Mike Gibson]

So they made a deal, and he has to stick with it.

[Mike Ferguson]

So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know Ben Renick was murdered shortly before his 30th birthday. His life was tragically cut short, but his legacy lives on in the exotic reptile community. In fact, a new breed of snake called the Renick Ghost was named in his honor.

[Mike Gibson]

That's cool.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is cool. And we said it right. He was a rock star in the reptile community. You Know his wife, Lynley, was convicted of killing him. Her defense is trying to say she didn't do it. They're bringing up all kinds of things. There's no doubt that, at least in my mind, that Lindley, Ashley, and Michael Humphrey all played a role in kind of planning this and all that. Yeah, but who stood to gain the most from his debt?

[Mike Gibson]

Lindley.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no doubt about it. When you look at the astronomical amount of money that she got out of his death, that's a big motive for murder.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you. And then you throw in the fares, the pending alleged divorce, she's fearful she might lose custody, all of that. There's motive on top of motive.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you have multiple people saying she didn't want to be married, that she wanted out, and she wanted Ben to die.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I will say there are some things that are not quite crystal clear in this case.

[Mike Gibson]

I understand that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Some people took plea deals. They had things to gain for pointing the finger at Lindley. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. You just have to take that into account. You know, this is one of those cases where, you know, a jury has to listen to everything, and they have to try to figure out who's telling the truth. And by my way of thinking, they just did not believe Lindley. Yeah. And they didn't believe that Michael Humphrey was the shooter.

[Mike Gibson]

Even if Michael was a shooter, you can make the case that he was a shooter because he was hired or directed to shoot from her. But, you know, again, I think, you know, you have Michael, you have both the girls at the salon, you know, saying what they said. I think it's hard to dispute when you have that many people saying the same thing. I don't think Michael, Ashley and Rachel got together and said, hey, you know, let's conspire against her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you'd have to believe that, right, to. To think they were all lying.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Against Lindley. My thing is, I don't know what Michael Humphrey has to gain by killing Ben himself without direction from Lindley or in conjunction with Lindley.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because if he's getting any money, it's going to have to come from her.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it for our episode on Ben Renick. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out here.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Mike and Gibby, this is Blake calling from Madison, Georgia, and I just had a quick question for you guys regarding, I guess, the overall opinion of what people think about true crime. Because I guess in our echo chamber, like everybody that listens to the podcast or engages with it, are obviously interested in true crime. But I've seen some stuff from outside of the true crime community, just basically like from public shooters or mass shooters or whatever that are saying that true crime is harmful and that generally, generally everyone in the true crime community's got like something wrong with them and that talking about true crime is harmful. So I guess my question is, have you guys dealt with that or do you just primarily deal with people in the community? I can't imagine someone has come from, you know, outside just to attack you guys, but I guess I was just wondering what, what you guys opinion is on people that are outside of the true crime community and what they might think about us that are, you know, obsessed with it and are constantly looking into it. But yeah, that's just my question. And keep your own time, Chicken. Thanks.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. Thank you so much. I think it's a great question.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Obviously we hear stuff all the time. You read it. Not, not so much directed towards us specifically, but you read stuff all the time. My take on it has always been that a lot of people are fascinated by true crime. Not because they want to emulate any of the things that we talk about or things that happen in these cases. They don't want to be like these people. They want to know what makes these people tick.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

They also want to know what to look for, maybe signs, ways to help keep themselves safe. Just, I mean, there's a lot of reasons people are into true crime. Is there some morbid fascination? Yeah. And I think in a sense, but to me, it's not because people listening want to do any of these things. They're trying to figure out how these people can do it, how they get to the point where they're driven to do it, stuff like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And I think even on the unsolved stuff, they're trying to help figure out who.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But appreciate the voice amount very much. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the Time. So for Mike and G me, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Gibson]

Sam.