Caroline Muirhead and Sandy McKellar

Summary

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True Crime All The Time – Episode 519: Caroline Muirhead and Sandy McKellar

Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Release Date: July 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this profound and emotionally charged episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson examine the story of Dr. Caroline Muirhead, a forensic pathologist in Glasgow, who falls in love with Scottish gamekeeper Sandy McKellar after meeting him on Tinder in 2020. The romance turns nightmarish when Sandy confesses he was involved in the death and cover-up of Tony Parsons, a beloved grandfather who went missing during a charity bike ride in 2017. The hosts dig into the psychological and ethical turmoil faced by Caroline as she decides whether to protect her fiancé or do the right thing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unlikely Beginning

• Caroline’s Background: Forensic pathologist in Glasgow, recently out of an abusive relationship, looking for love and stability.
• Meeting Sandy: The two connect on Tinder during COVID-19 lockdowns. Sandy is a "6’4” Highlander" and gamekeeper in the Scottish Highlands.
  • Ferguson quips on Tinder’s reputation as a hookup app, but notes genuine love stories can happen (03:01).

2. Early Red Flags

• Strong Initial Connection: Caroline and Sandy bond over their professions, both working with ‘death.’
• Warning Signs: Sandy’s twin brother Robert warns Caroline that Sandy is "not right in the head" (08:01). Sandy exhibits problematic behavior, especially with alcohol and drug use.
• Speedy Proposal: Within weeks, Sandy proposes, which Caroline accepts despite noticing red flags (09:04-09:17).

3. The Chilling Confession

• Heart of the Case: Caroline, preparing for Christmas with her family, asks Sandy about his past. He confesses to accidentally hitting and killing cyclist Tony Parsons while driving drunk, and, along with Robert, burying the body rather than contacting authorities (10:12-12:27).

• Caroline’s Dilemma: Caroline is stunned and emotionally paralyzed by the revelation, torn between love, loyalty, and moral obligation (20:29-23:27).

  “Imagine you fell in love with someone who made you feel accepted, wanted, seen or whole... then they said to you, they did this horrible thing... To remain in love, you have to keep the secret even though you know it will destroy you. But if you reveal it, you destroy everything too.”
  – Caroline Muirhead (23:27)

4. The Weight of the Secret & Moral Conflict

• Psychological Struggle: Caroline debates reporting the crime versus preserving her relationship. She rationalizes how "special" she felt being trusted, while recognizing the poisonous burden (23:27-25:16).

• Escalation: Sandy asks Caroline to help move Tony’s body, leveraging her forensic skills. She fears being used and wonders if Sandy targeted her because of her profession (25:54-27:24).

  "Am I being used for my skill set, maybe? ...Did he choose me specifically because he wanted someone to help him with this?"
  – Caroline (27:24)

5. Turning Point: Choosing Justice Over Love

• Collaboration with Police: Caroline decides to covertly aid investigators. She secretly gathers evidence, records conversations, and marks the burial site with a Red Bull can (32:50).

• Body Recovered: Thanks to her information, Tony’s body is found in January 2021, providing closure after years of mystery (33:19-33:27).

  “Prosecutors later acknowledged that the body probably never would have been found without Caroline’s help.”
  – Mike Ferguson (33:19)

6. The Family’s Anguish and the Cover-Up Unravels

• Tony Parsons’ Background: Navy veteran, beloved family man, and cancer survivor; disappeared during a charity bike ride (10:49-11:31).

• Police Investigations: Previous interviews with the McKellar brothers went nowhere. Only Caroline’s testimony cracks the case (17:29; 29:29).

• Shocking Detail: Robert reveals Tony survived for some time after the crash but was left to die without help (29:42-30:07; 39:57).

  “What they did was inhumane and you wouldn’t do that to animals. They killed him by not seeking any medical treatment.”
  – Tony’s son, Mike Parsons (58:06)

7. Aftermath – Trauma, Accountability, and Reflection

• Trial and Sentencing:

  • Sandy pleads guilty to culpable homicide and perverting justice (44:08-44:52).
  • Robert pleads guilty to perverting justice.
  • Sentences: Sandy receives 12 years, Robert gets 5 years 3 months (49:34-50:40).

• Emotional Toll on Caroline: Suffers deep psychological distress, turns to alcohol and drugs to cope, and faces immense pressure from police to testify (38:01-42:32).

• Criticism of Law Enforcement: Caroline claims police threatened her with prosecution if she didn’t cooperate further (53:25-54:52).

• Life After: Caroline moves, seeks psychiatric help, maintains sobriety, and reconnects with family (53:10).

  “He wasn’t convicted of murder, but he did take an innocent man's life. So for me, he is a coward and he is a killer.”
  – Caroline Muirhead (56:45)

8. The Family’s Resolution

• Parsons Family Statement: Express appreciation for Caroline, police, and volunteer searchers. Emphasize the irreplaceable loss and ask for privacy (48:33-49:33; 59:32).
• Civil Suit Settlement: A six-figure insurance payment is issued to the Parsons family, which cannot replace Tony (57:37).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Learning the Truth:

  "It must have been like the weight of the world on her shoulders... It got heavier and heavier as time went on."
  — Mike Ferguson (34:15)

• On the Moral Quandary:

  “Would you actually go and move a body that your friend... [murdered]? I think a lot of people say it, but, you know, sometimes when it comes to the actual part, they don't live up to it.”
  — Mike Ferguson (26:25)

• On the Trauma for Tony Parsons:

  “He would have only survived 20 to 30 minutes without medical care. But it was unlikely he died instantly ... that must have been a horrible 20 to 30 minutes. The amount of pain he had to go through.”
  — Mike Ferguson (39:57)

• On Caroline’s Role:

  “If it wasn't for her, this case probably would have never been solved.”
  — Mike Gibson (53:25)

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Important Timestamps

• Introduction and Case Setup: 01:30–06:20
• Sandy’s Confession & Caroline’s Dilemma: 10:12–21:09
• Caroline’s Psychological Struggle & Moral Conflict: 23:27–27:24
• Decision to Contact Police and Red Bull Marker: 32:50–33:27
• Discovery of the Body: 33:19–34:01
• Family’s Reaction and Statement: 48:33–49:33
• Trial, Sentencing, and Reflections: 44:08–53:10
• Discussion on Police Pressure and Caroline’s Aftermath: 53:25–56:45
• Parsons Family’s Perspective and Episode Close: 58:06–61:18

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Tone & Style

Throughout, the hosts employ a respectful and empathetic tone, with light humor and banter interspersed to offset the gravity of the case (“Would you do that for your twin? I don't know, because I never had a twin. I wouldn't do it for you. I know that.” – Mike Ferguson, 31:28). They underscore the moral and psychological complexities without sensationalizing the tragedy.

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Summary & Reflection

This episode stands out for its in-depth exploration of the ripple effects a single moral choice can have, both for the perpetrator and those caught in the web. Caroline’s decision to come forward—with all the personal cost that decision entailed—was crucial for uncovering the truth of Tony Parsons’ fate and delivering long-awaited closure to his family. At its core, this is a story about responsibility, love, trauma, and the meaning of justice. The hosts offer both analysis and empathy, reinforcing that, as Ferguson concludes, “even in doing the right thing, [Caroline] suffered some really serious consequences” (61:08).

Transcript

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 519 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm hanging in there, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, Hanging in, hanging in. That's all you got?

[Mike Gibson]

That's right. I could complain.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not doing good, not doing bad, just hanging in.

[Mike Gibson]

Does it do any good to complain about this damn kidney stuff?

[Mike Ferguson]

Nobody cares.

[Mike Gibson]

Nobody cares.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nobody cares. All right, buddy, let's jump right in.

[Mike Gibson]

Let's do it.

[Mike Ferguson]

You ready for this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Caroline Muirhead and Sandy McKellar. When forensic pathologist Caroline Muirhead met gamekeeper Sandy McKellar on Tinder in 2020, she believed she had found the love of her life. Sandy made a shocking confession that forced her to make what felt like an impossible choice.

[Mike Gibson]

Choice. Tinder. Is that where you swipe left or right or something like that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, like you don't know what Tinder is.

[Mike Gibson]

I. I just, you know, want to

[Mike Ferguson]

confirm with you now, I don't know what Tinder is because I've been married for 30 years, but I know for a fact. You know what? Not now. You don't know what it is now. But you, you might have known what it was at some point, might have heard about it, might have heard of it. In 2020, Dr. Caroline Muirhead was a forensic pathologist working in a mortuary in Glasgow, Scotland.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, your homeland.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You know what I always say, it's not Scottish, it's crop. Yes, you do after going through a difficult breakup with a man who was allegedly abusive, she decided to join Tinder in the fall of 2020. Now, I've always heard of Tinder as more of a hookup app.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I'm sure people have met on Tinder and formed, like, lasting relationships. Right. I would think it doesn't mean it has to be like a one night stand hookup app. I think maybe, by and large, it might be that.

[Shopify Business Owner]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

At least that's what I've heard.

[Mike Gibson]

But this is also around the COVID time, isn't it?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, actually. Right. Fall of 2020, we're just kind of getting into the. The heart of COVID Right. The start of it. In October, Caroline matched with Alexander Sandy McKellen, marking the start of their whirlwind romance.

[Mike Gibson]

And I.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, Sandy McKellar seems like a very Scottish name to me.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sandy was a hunter and gamekeeper on this estate, which was a 68 square mile farm in the Scottish Highlands near a village called Bridge of Porky, about an hour away from the city.

[Mike Gibson]

So sounds like it's probably pretty nice is what I'm thinking.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, 68 square miles, not small

[Mike Gibson]

up in the Highlands.

[Mike Ferguson]

Are you familiar with the Scottish Islands?

[Mike Gibson]

Nothing like the Scottish Highlands.

[Mike Ferguson]

Spend a lot of time there, you know? Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Just like, you know, I just feel brave. Brave?

[Mike Ferguson]

Braveheart. I've seen Braveheart. That's as much as I know of the Scottish islands. On his Tinder profile, Sandy described himself as a 6 foot 4 Highlander. Lonely contractor looking for someone to keep warm on cold nights on the farm. You ever see the movie Highlander?

[Mike Gibson]

Actually, I did. It's been a while, but Me too.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's an older movie and I think they might have made some other ones, but. All right, so 6 foot 4, he's a. He's a big lad. Yeah, tall lad. But he's just looking for someone to keep him warm, you know, cold nights on the farm.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, if you wear something besides the kilt, maybe you wouldn't get so cold, you know?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, not great in the cold. From the beginning, Caroline and Sandy had a strong connection. She explained in the docu series Should I Marry a Murderer? I felt so lonely and wanted to find someone who didn't want to change me and someone who would want to start life together with marriage and the prospect of children and. All right. You know, at a certain age, isn't that what everybody's looking for? Right. If you haven't found it by a certain point, Most people start to kind of progress out of the party lifestyle and then maybe looking to settle down, start a family, something like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Certain things that are important to people at that time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. She agreed to meet Sandy on the farm for their first date in early October 2020. Caroline recalled an unsettling conversation with a friend. Ahead of the date, she said, I phoned my friend Carla. She was like, what if he turns out to be a murderer? I was like, oh, come on, get a grip. That's not going to happen.

[Mike Gibson]

That's sounds like a conversation some of our really good listeners would have. Would have with some of their friends. Like, yeah, hey, what if.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, maybe this friend Carla was into true crime. She thought like that.

[Shopify Business Owner]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

But Caroline and Sandy both bonded over their jobs because they dealt with death every day. Sandy seemed relieved to find a partner who understood him and he seemed interested in her work as a pathologist. I would be very interested in that work, although I feel like it would be. It's not an easy job.

[Mike Gibson]

I'd be interested. I'd want to have some conversations, but not before. Before and not right after dinner.

[Mike Ferguson]

And not during.

[Mike Gibson]

Definitely not during. Be like, hey, we're have this conversation later.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you would think, right, Some of these pathologists, they have to have the most amazing stories. Oh, now some of them, they probably can't share.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

With everybody. But, you know, things being found in places that you wouldn't expect to find things. Matchbox cars, I don't know. You know, I've heard of different things found in X rays.

[Mike Gibson]

So there's two people you want to be really close to at a party, a pathologist and a proctologist.

[Mike Ferguson]

I knew that was going to be your second one. Sandy and his twin brother Robert, who was also a farm worker. They often hosted parties in a barn on Auk Estate or they went out to local pubs. And again, I don't know if I'm saying all these places correctly. You know, we go. I can't even say all the places in the States correctly, but the more international we get, the more I normally mess up.

[Mike Gibson]

If you need my help, let me know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because again, you've seen Braveheart.

[Mike Gibson]

I see Braveheart, I see Braveheart the movie and also Braveheart the Disney or cartoon one. Maybe that wasn't Disney. Maybe that was.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think that was Braveheart, was it?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's called Brave, Just Brave.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is not the same thing as Braveheart, is it?

[Mike Gibson]

No, but she's. It's a Scottish princess. Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Hey, I got some Scottish knowledge.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm assuming there's a lot less killing in that one.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, a lot less.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was during one of these parties that Robert pulled Caroline aside and told her Sandy was, quote, not right in the head. All right, so this is your twin brother or your boyfriend's twin brother.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Saying this, saying, oh, by the way, my brother, your boyfriend is not right in the head.

[Mike Gibson]

And you need to know this.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I don't know what you do with that information. Caroline was so smitten that she kind of dismissed Robert's remark. You know, maybe it's. Maybe she thought, well, he's jealous, or of our relationship. But she did notice some red flags with Sandy. He often became loud and belligerent when he drank too much. And she suspected he drank and used drugs as a crutch during their relationship,

[Mike Gibson]

which is a problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, but a lot of people do.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why do people drink? Why do they use drugs? Well, for a number of reasons, but some people use them as a crutch. Right. To get through things or during stressful times or whatever.

[Mike Gibson]

Nerves.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nerves. Weeks after meeting, on November 28, 2020, Sandy proposed to Caroline. She accepted and was looking forward to starting the next phase of their life together.

[Mike Gibson]

So it was a pretty short period of time.

[Mike Ferguson]

There it was. And again, did she see some red flags? Yeah, she even admitted that. But she also said, right, she was looking for someone to settle down with. She was smitten with this guy, and she thought he was the one. Caroline's family invited the couple to spend Christmas with them at their home in Glasgow. Shortly after the engagement, as Caroline was preparing for the trip, she asked Sandy if there was anything from his past that might affect their future together.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's always a good question to ask. Is it? If.

[Mike Ferguson]

I guess it is. But you might not want to find out what somebody's getting ready to tell you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, we. You've probably been asked that question. I know I've been asked that question.

[Mike Ferguson]

And why would I be asked that question? I've been married for over 30 years.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I didn't even have a past, really. When I got married.

[Mike Gibson]

You were just too young.

[Mike Ferguson]

I was, like, 22 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

Your closet was still very empty.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was. There was no skeletons, Very few skeletons. But he made a chilling confession to her. He said three years earlier, he killed a man. Sandy confessed that he was driving under the influence with Robert in the passenger seat when he accidentally hit a man with a bicycle. That man was 63 year old Tony Parsons. Tony was a navy veteran who. Who lived in Tillicultry in Clackmannshire, Scotland.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh yeah, nice area.

[Mike Ferguson]

You like it? Tony had a wife and two kids and he was a beloved grandfather. He had also survived prostate cancer. Tony was an outdoorsman who enjoyed fishing with his grandchildren. He also loved golf and rugby and was involved with coaching and refereeing mini and midi leagues, whatever those are.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In Scotland, I'm assuming it's like peewee or say soccer here or whatever you call it.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know. I'm gonna believe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, that one you don't know nothing about.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm thinking

[Mike Ferguson]

clack men and shire. You know all about mini and midi leagues. Out of your.

[Mike Gibson]

Out of my range. Of.

[Mike Ferguson]

Out of your range. Another one of Tony's hobbies was cycling. Because he survived cancer, he decided he wanted to give something back. On September 29, 2017, he joined a 204 mile prostate cancer charity ride from Fort William back to Tillicultrie. The accident happened late that Evening on the A82 highway near Bridge of Porky. When confessing to Caroline, Sandy said that after hitting the man, they stopped to check on him, but there was no chance he would survive. He and Robert argued about calling the police, but they feared they would be arrested. So they buried the body on Auk estate and tried to move on with their lives. I mean, can you imagine that you were in love with someone, you're now engaged.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're planning to get married and this person drops this revelation that three years ago they killed someone. Now, according to them it was accidental.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they still covered it up and they buried this body, which would be

[Mike Gibson]

so shocking to hear.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know what you do with that information.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I know what you should do with that information, but what do you actually do when it's the person that you are in love with telling you that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. When it's the love of your life. Is that something that you say? Well, you shouldn't have done that. But I'm not going to tell on you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're going to find out.

[Mike Gibson]

What would you do?

[Mike Ferguson]

We're going to find out what? Well, I actually don't know. I would love to say that I would terminate the relationship immediately and I would march straight to the police. That's what I would love to say. And I would kind of like to hope I would do.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I don't know. I don't know how my heart would react.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because, you know, everybody can think Back about, like, being engaged. I mean, oh, my gosh. You're in kind of la la land, right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or even just after you get married, being a newlywed, like, the. That part of the relationship is always kind of magical.

[Mike Gibson]

This is the kind of stuff that will come out, like, five years after you've been married. Like, you know what? I don't even like you anymore. And I'm gonna go tell the police what you told me five years ago.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Man, he. He's really trusting her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

He could have just said, no, there's nothing in my past.

[Mike Gibson]

Nope, I'm good.

[Mike Ferguson]

Just let it go on. But, I mean, at the very least, you got to give it up to him that he was honest.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, he did something kind of horrific, but he was honest about it. My other thought is, you're really putting a lot on that other person, because now they. You can't take that back.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Once that information is out there, once that person knows they got to do something with it, they have no choice,

[Mike Gibson]

because now they can get in trouble too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Absolutely. So Tony's family became worried when he hadn't called them. By the evening of September 30, 2017, Tony's son Mike recalled to the BBC years later. I actually texted him myself with what is my dad and myself sense of humor? It was a simple text that said, are you still alive?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

Looking back now, it's not nice to know that was the very last thing I texted him, knowing at this point, he would have been passed away. But who hasn't done that?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, of course. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're joking around. Like, if somebody's late, you're like, are you still alive?

[Mike Gibson]

You said that to me before.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Many times back when I worked with you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, some of those. Some of those were legitimate concerns because of your lifestyle. Are you still alive?

[Mike Gibson]

It's true. But, I mean, this Tony guy sounds like an amazing guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Gibson]

And everything he overcame for this to

[Mike Ferguson]

happen to him, and he's killed on this charity bike ride for prostate cancer. Oh, man. Tony was reported missing on October 2, 2017, after his daughter searched the highway and failed to find him. Police determined that Tony passed through Glencoe Village at 6pm on Sept. 29 before biking to the bridge of Orky Hotel. It's either orky or orchie. I'm going with orky.

[Mike Gibson]

Careful how you say orchie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Orchi. I was careful to put the ch on there.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

But. And maybe that's why I went with the other one. Just because. But people are going right in, obviously, and tell me if I'm wrong. They always do. He was last seen at the hotel at 11:30pm and headed south on A82 towards Tinder. The police searched remote and inhospitable terrain surrounding his last known location, but no trace of Tony was found. The police searched extensively and made national appeals, asking the public for help. Tony's son Mike, a former police officer, knew that the more time passed, the less likely it was that Tony would be found alive. Still, he lied to his mother to convince her that there was still a chance. And I don't think you have to be a police officer right. To. To understand that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

If somebody's missing, obviously the more time that passes without them being found, the greater the likelihood that something bad has happened to them.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And he doesn't want to break his mom's heart right now.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And I could see where, you know, maybe a little white lie in that situation might not be a bad thing.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're trying to keep that hope alive, even though in your heart, you, as a former police officer, are thinking, oh,

[Mike Gibson]

this isn't good, this is not good. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tony's case had been cold for years when Sandy confessed to Caroline. According to the BBC, the police had actually spoken to the McKellar brothers previously. They were interviewed in August 2018 after the police received an anonymous letter stating they were in the Bridge of Orky Hotel the night Tony went missing, but no further action was taken. So, again, okay, a lot of people are going to be questioned. Yeah, but what are they going to say? Obviously, they're not going to say, yeah, we ran over this guy and we buried his body. So if they don't give you anything, you don't really have any more to go on than you had before you started talking to them.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, they're both each other's alibi.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's true as well. That's very true. In June 2020, they were questioned again and confirmed they were in the hotel with a hunting party. But they said they hadn't seen Tony after he was done telling Caroline this horrific story. He insisted he wasn't a bad person.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, there's an argument there, obviously. I think in his mind, he's probably thinking, look, I'm a good guy. I just. Something terrible happened that night, and I didn't know what else to do. And we did what we did. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, you can make a case that he's not a serial killer. He didn't set out to murder someone. But he did cover up an accident. If it was an accident and he did bury the body on top of that. This information that he's kept quiet has kept the family from knowing what happened to their loved one.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's almost not as bad as killing the guy, but it's, it's up there, right? I mean, you're putting this family in distress because they don't know what happened to their dad, their husband. They have no clue.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, some people could say argue that it's worse.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you could, I guess.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because if it truly was an accident, Okay. A family might understand that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, maybe it's dark, you know, maybe these Scottish roads are not that wide or they're, they're twisty. There's all kinds of different things that could happen and accidents do occur. What would be hard to explain is that you decided to bury this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And completely never talk about it again.

[Mike Gibson]

And there's probably some conversation there why you were at the hotel, did you drink too much, did you drive drunk?

[Mike Ferguson]

Right.

[Mike Gibson]

And is that why you struck him?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's a great point. Because that would maybe be a reason why you would do the COVID up.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because then you would be looking at much more serious charges than what would then what you would be for, let's just say an accident or something like that. But what happened was, you know, as we kind of mentioned earlier, Caroline was kind of suddenly thrust into a murder case.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

She was right. She didn't call the police right away and still decided to visit her family for the holidays with Sandy.

[Mike Gibson]

So hard. Because it would just be back here the whole time, you know, on the

[Mike Ferguson]

back of your head or in the back of your mind?

[Mike Gibson]

Back of your mind.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you're doing a thing where you're going around and around like that. I don't know. Caroline said in the docu series, my brain wasn't in a position to go to the police. My brain still wasn't accepting what I'd been told. The underlying sense of panic was so massive, actually couldn't address it in that moment. And I actually kind of understand what she's saying.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

I've never been in that position, but I can imagine that you're hearing something that is so wild and shocking that you're actually not processing it maybe completely right away.

[Mike Gibson]

You kind of need some time to step back, to put it all in place.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Or to get the full picture, the perspective. You know, folks, my wife and I, we're dog obsessed. We have two small eight pound Malteses one is 13 years old, the other is two years old. There's nothing we wouldn't do for them. They really are our babies now that our two girls are grown adults. And if anyone gets dog obsessed it's Ollie. They deliver fresh human grade food in five drool worthy flavors so that my dogs can live their best life too. You could say Ollie feeds the obsession. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs with gut friendly ingredients that support better digestion, energy, skin health and even poops. And from the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored to your pup. The meals are perfectly portioned and you even get a puptainer a scoop for easy storing and serving. My oldest dog has always been obsessed with food, but my younger dog is a picky eater. But here's the thing, they both love Ollie so get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com tea cat, tell them all about your dog and use code TCATT to get 70% off your welcome kit with when you subscribe today. Plus it's risk free with their Obsession guarantee. That's O L L I e.com/TCAT and enter code TCAT to get 70% off your first box. Ali Feed the obsession I started or

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[Mike Ferguson]

explaining her thoughts after the confession, Caroline said, imagine you fell in love with someone who made you feel accepted, wanted, seen or whole and loved and just special. Then they said to you, they did this horrible thing, something so vile it flips your world upside down. To remain in love, you have to keep the secret even though you know it will destroy you. But if you reveal it, you destroy everything too. In doing the right thing, I knew I had to hand in the man I loved. You can't help who you fall in love with. It sounds so twisted and dysfunctional. But in some ways he was putting all this trust in me. When I'd been lied to before and really hurt. There was this weird sense of someone trusting me was such a big secret that it felt special. Even though I knew it was so poisonously wrong. My brain couldn't fathom the idea that the man I'd fallen in love with was a murderer. I hated myself. I felt like a rat, and I felt like a liar.

[Mike Gibson]

But you also have to say, shame on him for putting that on me. Like, you know, he decided to tell me about all that. Yeah. Did I ask?

[Mike Ferguson]

She did.

[Mike Gibson]

I did ask, but I never would have thought that would have came out of somebody's mouth. Right. You probably thinking maybe he's. He's going to mention, like, well, I used to, you know, date this one girl, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Not that I killed somebody, but to put that on her, now she has to harbor that, and I don't. That's not fair.

[Mike Ferguson]

She got to figure out what to do with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Right?

[Shopify Business Owner]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if he was like, hey, I'm gonna go to the police, don't worry. That's one thing. But. But he's not. He's not saying that.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, but I also get where she's coming from. Right. She's been lied to. She's had bad relationships. Nobody's ever made her feel special. And now in some way, he's making her feel more special than anybody ever has because he's trusting her so much.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

With this massive secret, even though she knows it's going to rip them apart. It's kind of fascinating, really, you know, when you break it down. It was during that holiday trip that Sandy shocked Caroline further by asking her to help him move the body.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's you. You went too far to begin with, but now you've really gone too far.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that's. That's crossing the line. If you could say that he didn't already.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, it's one thing to want to be completely honest in a relationship. You feel like you can trust this person so much, you tell them this awful secret, but then you're like, oh, by the way, I need you to help me move this body. Tough.

[Mike Gibson]

It is. I mean, I get it. There's a lot of people out there that say they're ride and die, you know, their best friend. We do anything for each other. Would you. Would you actually go and move a body that your friend.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think a lot of people say it, but, you know, sometimes when it comes to the. The actual part, they don't. They don't live up to it. So what he explained to her was that the estate owner was going to build housing on the land where Tony was buried. Sandy knew she had expertise in autopsies and asked how long it would take to burn a body and if she could help move it. Caroline recalled. You're thinking to yourself, am I being used for my skill set, maybe? She said she had pathologists on her Tinder profile. So she was like, did he choose me specifically because he wanted someone to help him with this?

[Mike Gibson]

How heartbreaking would that be? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because if he did, this is a pretty long con. Yeah, right. They're like three years in or however long, so. But it's not out of the question.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it's not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Caroline wanted to end the relationship, but she knew she had to be careful. On December 27, 2020, Caroline called the police and began secretly helping with the investigation. On December 30, Sandy and Robert were arrested and brought in for questioning. They refused to talk, and because the police didn't have a body or any other evidence linking them to the crime, they were released without charges. But Sandy had no idea Caroline was the one who reported it.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man. Wouldn't you be, like, all nervous if you're Caroline?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you know, she said she had to be careful. And I would say, yes, you do, because this is a person who allegedly didn't kill this man on purpose, but did purposefully cover it up. So in my mind, what links are they willing to go to to make sure that this secret is not uncovered?

[Mike Gibson]

It's kind of like that poker match, right? You're either all in or you're not. What are you going to do? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So now that she knows about it, if he thinks that she's not going to keep his secret, could he potentially harm her? I think it's a very valid thought.

[Mike Gibson]

I think so, too. Especially if he really never loved her because he played her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mike Gibson]

Through the Tinder thing. Because of her profession.

[Mike Ferguson]

Y. Yeah. I still think that's a long con. Do you wait? Three years, maybe. So Caroline was afraid for herself, her family. But she continued seeing Sandy and trying to gather evidence. She secretly recorded her conversations with him in hopes of getting a confession. It was around this time that Robert revealed a new piece of information. He revealed that the cyclist didn't immediately die after the crash. He was alive, and the brothers hid him on the side of the road and drove home, changed clothes, and even switched vehicles before returning to the scene.

[Mike Gibson]

So that changes everything.

[Mike Ferguson]

Everything.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, even if you're like, that was just bad luck you hit, you know, I mean, oh, so tragic. I kind of see why maybe you did what you did. But now you hear this and you're like, what are you guys, monsters? You couldn't have called 911 or whatever they have out there and get help, maybe save this guy's life.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. It goes from you accidentally killed someone and then you did something horrible by covering it up to you possibly accidentally hit someone, but then you intentionally did not call for help and you left them on the side of the road. You did essentially kill them.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In my way of thinking, then, if it happened like that. So they returned to the scene, they took the body to the estate and left it in the woods before burying it elsewhere on the grounds.

[Mike Gibson]

How do you sleep at night?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know how some of these murderers do. Now, I kind of understand serial killers because they don't have that thing that the rest of us have right. Where we feel bad about things. I think a lot of serial killers just don't have that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So they. They probably sleep pretty good. Doesn't bother him.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, I was thinking, Robert told Caroline that Sandy's a little off in the head. Yeah. But kind of sounds like maybe Robert's there, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, he went. He went along with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, maybe it was Sandy's idea and all that, but, you know, he went along with it. Now, you know there are twins.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they are.

[Mike Ferguson]

Would you do that for your twin? I don't know, because I never had a twin.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. It'd be an interesting.

[Mike Ferguson]

I wouldn't do it for you. I know that. Like, 91 1. Yes. Mike Gibson. Come get him, please.

[Mike Gibson]

Even if I didn't do it, you would probably call me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably.

[Mike Gibson]

I did it. It had to be him.

[Mike Ferguson]

If I just had a suspicion.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'd call in on you now, what it did, you know, obviously change Carolyn's view. Sure. Of this whole thing from what she thought was an accident to now, like this was him committing murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I bet that night when she learned this, I wouldn't think she slept at all. I'm pretty sure she was like, how do I get out of this house? How do I get away from this guy? But I got to play it cool because the police need my help, and I need the police to do what they're going to do because I need him out of my life because otherwise I might be buried out on the farm as well.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. She had to be worried about her, you know, her safety. Also, Caroline told Sandy she would help him move the body, but first she needed to know exactly where it was buried. So, you know, he led her to the spot, and she secretly dropped a Red Bull can to serve as A marker for the police.

[Mike Gibson]

Very smart.

[Mike Ferguson]

Very smart. Now, I think she was a very intelligent person. Right. She was a pathologist. She had gone through all that schooling. She called the police and told them where they could find it. Tony Parsons body was found on January 12, 2021. During the dig, investigators found a piece of red material that matched the jacket Tony was last seen wearing. It took two days to uncover his remains.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

And prosecutors later acknowledged that the body probably never would have been found without Caroline's help.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I would have to agree with that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't think Sandy and. Or Robert, you know, they were going to come forward to police and tell them what they had done. So, you know, if Sandy doesn't tell Caroline and if she doesn't make the decision to do the right thing. Right. And go to police and on top of that, continue this relationship to get further information, I mean, there's. If you think about it, she did a lot here.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes, she did.

[Mike Ferguson]

To help solve this crime.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, shame on Sandy for putting it all on her, you know, I mean. Yeah, he did that to himself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, going back to what you said, it makes it even an even bigger deal.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, right. Once you find all of this out, what he put on her just by that wanted mission, it must have been like the weight of the world on her shoulders. And it. My thinking is it got heavier and heavier as time went on.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. I mean, it kept on getting. Didn't get better.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Because at first it was like, well, okay, you're telling me this. It doesn't make you look great, but I get it. It was an accident to. Now it's a murder that you completely covered up. And you want me to help you move the body because you're afraid it's going to be uncovered when they build these houses. And then after the body was found and Caroline had to navigate several days of uncertainty and fear.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I bet. You know, because the body hadn't been found up to this point. He showed her where the body was. So naturally, I think you would have to say only person that knew where this was was you and my brother. And I don't think my brother would have told the police, so.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Because he could have done it at any point up to now.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And he didn't. The body's found right after I kind of share this with you and tell you where it is. So. Yeah, I'm with you. Sandy had to be suspicious of her. According to Caroline, when the news came out that human remains were found, Sandy called her and screamed at her, you little. You did this. I have defended you to everyone and you have handed me in and our lives. Now, this is according to the Scottish son, and obviously they left out the expletives, but this is what he said to her.

[Mike Gibson]

But look, he can say that, but in the day, he's the one that their lives.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah. I always like it when people do something and then they blame it on the other person.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because they did the right thing. That. That always. That always kills me. Caroline recalled the fear she felt when Sandy hung up the phone. Sandy had spare keys to her apartment and she worried he was going to kill her. And I would say that's a. A very real fear to have.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. If you're her. Clearly he has it in his system to do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And he didn't. Now, he might have felt guilty about it, I don't know. But it wasn't enough not to do it or to come clean later on.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So it must have not have been too much of a guilty feeling. And then later, Sandy apologized to her. She said, one side of my brain was saying, this is the loving man. I fell for the gentle Sandy. The other side is saying, this guy is dangerous.

[Mike Gibson]

Dr. Heckle or Dr.

[Mike Ferguson]

Go ahead. Go ahead. Dr. Heckle. Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hi, Mr. Jaide, Dr. Heckle and Mr. Jai. Yeah. I mean, you really get a sense of it from her perspective, right? She's conflicted.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, she loves this guy, she thinks she's gonna marry this guy, and then all of a sudden there's the bombshell and then everything that came along after it. And then even after he thinks she's the one who, you know, ratted him out, she's like, you know, he calls her and says, I'm sorry, I love you. She's still conflicted.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's. And love.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But on the one hand. On the other hand, she knows this guy is frickin dangerous.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nine days later, on January 21, 2021, Caroline helped the police locate Sandy and Robert, who were both arrested. By this point, she had been through, you know, a great deal of emotional trauma. In that docu series, she talks about how she turned to alcohol and drugs to cope.

[Mike Gibson]

I bet she had to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think she felt she had to. Or at least she felt that's what she needed to do.

[Mike Gibson]

Feel like there wouldn't be enough wine in the world or, you know, what are you, Scotch? Scotland. People drink Scotch. Scotch.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. Boy, you're on Fire today.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh yeah, yeah. Drink some bunch of scotch.

[Mike Ferguson]

What do you Scottish people drink?

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

But again, if you've never been in a situation like that, how can you know? Right. How it would affect you, what you would have to deal to co or what you would have to do to, to cope with it.

[Mike Gibson]

I would have to take something to make myself fall asleep. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe that was part of the coping process.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I can't get to sleep. I need something to, to help me. Prosecutors had to wait for Tony's autopsy results to come in before they could file formal charges. In December 2021, Sandy and Robert McKellar were formally charged with murder. The BBC reported that Tony suffered catastrophic rib, pelvic and spine fractures from the collision. His injuries were so extensive he would have only survived 20 to 30 minutes without medical care. But it was unlikely he died instantly. His most immediate cause of death was rib injuries and a collapsed lung affecting his breathing.

[Mike Gibson]

But you know what, I'm sure Sandy and his brother didn't know how long he could survive. They were obligated to call rescue the authorities to see if something could be done.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, there's a couple of things here for me. Number one, yeah, they, they should have called somebody. Could they have gotten there and saved him within 20 to 30 minutes? Right. That's if that's how long he had or maybe they, he had longer, we don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But then also I'm thinking, okay, that would be a, that must have been a horrible 20 to 30 minutes. That's how long he survived, amount of

[Mike Gibson]

pain he had to go through. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

By himself, nobody helping him. If you're the family, I mean that's, that's soul crushing.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

To think that's how your, your husband, your dad, your grandfather died at the hands of these two guys.

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[Mike Ferguson]

The brothers were scheduled to go to trial in July 2023. Caroline was summoned to appear as a witness, but she didn't show up to court. She explained in her documentary interview that she panicked and she drove to the Highlands in hopes of finding more evidence. She was later arrested for evading court.

[Mike Gibson]

That's kind of rough. You know it is. You wouldn't be where you're at today if it wasn't for her. But then you're going to because she's nervous and scared. She didn't show up and then you arrest her for evading Corp. It is the law, though, so.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but my thought is, you know, how much did this mess her life up?

[Mike Gibson]

I think it messed it up a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, she had a great job.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

She had gone through all the schooling, and then she meets this guy who she thinks is the one, and all of a sudden her life is turned upside down.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

She started drinking, she started doing drugs to cope, and then she's ultimately arrested because she's freaked out about having to testify. On July 26, 2023, Sandy McKellar pleaded guilty to culpable homicide and attempting to pervert the course of justice. The court accepted Robert's not guilty plea to murder and he pleaded guilty to attempting to pervert the course of justice. In court on July 28th of that year, the prosecutor read out an agreed narrative of the case. So on the night of September 29, 2017, the brothers were out drinking with a German hunting group. Tony stopped at this same village. They were in the bridge of Orky and was drinking a coffee in the local hotel, but decided to keep cycling rather than stay the night. Sandy admitted to driving on the A82 highway at excess speed and when he was unfit due to the fact that he was had been drinking alcohol.

[Mike Gibson]

Drunk driving, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

He admitted he was distracted by oncoming headlights and hit something on the side of the road, which he discovered was a cyclist. He said he panicked and he said with reckless disregard for the consequences of his actions, he left Tony by the side of the road in a remote location during the hours of darkness and in inclement weather, which caused his death. Sandy and Robert left knowing Tony was still alive to dump their truck. They returned in another vehicle to move the body to Auk Estate. I mean, There's a couple of things that are, you know, all kind of coming together.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

One that you mentioned, which was, you know, had these guys been drinking? It turns out, yeah, they had been.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm sure that played a large part. And their decision to try to cover up this crash or, you know, because they knew that they would be charged with it. Right. You can't claim an accident, even if it was an accident. If you've been drinking, I mean, it ceases to be an accident.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. At that point, I mean, this is a nightmare. I mean, this is something you would see a made for TV movie about. Right. You're out late drinking, you leave, you're, you know, with your best friend or brother, whoever. Maybe you guys are singing some songs, driving down this road at high speeds. Next thing you know, something is in front of you, you hit it, and at that point, your whole world changes because you have to make decisions at that moment. Right. Right. Then you have to decide, do we call for help or do we pull the body, put it to the side, come back and get it and bury it? What do we do? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do we do the right thing or do we cover our own asses?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is what I'm thinking. They. They kind of based everything on, and they chose not to do the right thing. They chose to cover themselves because they didn't want to get charged with, you know, whatever it would be in Scotland. Yeah. You know, reckless homicide or vehicular manslaughter. I mean, there's a. A bunch of different things over here. Something related to being drunk, obviously, is what it would be.

[Mike Gibson]

Not to get too far ahead in my thought here, but if you're Robert, how pissed are you at Sandy right now for telling Caroline?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's a good point because he obviously did something wrong as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He went along with it. Whoever's. I. Let's say it was Sandy's idea. Robert went along with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And he didn't tell anybody. So you're right. He's probably gonna be pretty upset at Sandy for running his mouth.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And saying, hey, you didn't need to ever tell anybody about this, and we would have got away with it.

[Mike Gibson]

I thought you said we were taking this to the grave. You didn't hold your bargain.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. A pathologist determined that Tony sustained extensive injuries. Injuries.

[Mike Gibson]

Injuries, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That kind of came out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it was unlikely he would have survived using an excavator. The brothers buried the body on the estate in a peat bog where animal carcasses were disposed of.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's that peat bog, I think. Or that Pete. Yeah, that they used to make all that good scotch you got to have Pete. Pretty sure that's what makes all that good scotch over there.

[Mike Gibson]

What you don't know is there's a guy named Pete that works to Pete Boggs, you know, that way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is his name spelled P, E, A, T?

[Mike Gibson]

Doesn't matter.

[Mike Ferguson]

It doesn't matter. So they buried his body. Then they hid Tony's bike behind a waterfall on the estate. This bike has never been found. After the guilty pleas, Tony's family released a statement that was published by Police Scotland. Tony was a much loved husband, dad and granddad. When he said goodbye and set off on his charity cycle from Fort William that Friday, none of us expected it would be the last time we would be able to see or speak to him.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Throughout the six years since he went missing and then the subsequent criminal investigation, we had been left with many unanswered questions. And it's been heartbreaking for each and every member of the family being unable to get these answers. As you can imagine, not knowing what has happened to someone. And then the devastating news that we were provided has taken its toll on all of us as a family. At last, justice has been done. And we would like to thank not only the court officials and officers from Police Scotland's major investigation team, 4th Valley Division, and other Police Scotland departments who worked on this case, but all the volunteers and mountain rescue teams who tirelessly searched for him in the earlier stages of the inquiry. As a family, we would like to request privacy at this time so that we can finally grieve and come to terms with the outcome of the trial and a life without Tony.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And your heart goes out to them.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, no doubt about it. They went a number of years having no idea what happened to Tony, to then finding out that, you know, he was dead and then ultimately finding out that, you know, these. These people had a hand in it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And what they. Exactly what they did to cover it up, very tough for them. On August 25, 2023, Sandy was sentenced to 12 years in prison, and Robert received a sentence of five years and three months. Sandy's lawyer, Brian McConaughey, read a statement on his behalf in court, and he said he accepts that While catastrophically injured, Mr. Parsons was alive at the time. The only explanation which he offers is simply fear and panic. Using his words, he says he was too much of a coward to come clean. When he met Caroline and she went to the police, he fully accepts that ultimately she made the right decision in doing so.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a fair statement.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I mean, if it's more than we've heard a lot of people say.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, he is basically calling himself a coward.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's what he was.

[Mike Gibson]

He was right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He gave in to fear and panic and he chose to do the wrong thing because he was a coward. It's interesting to hear him say that Caroline did the right thing in going to the police.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sandy wanted to apologize for the trauma he caused to the family. He said he's not an evil man. And his lawyer said he acknowledges that he's done a terrible thing which has caused untold stress to the Parsons family. He would do anything he could to alter to the decision he took in September 2017, but he cannot rewind the clock. And those, to me are. I don't know. Those could just be worse, to be honest with you. Because if he could go back and redo it, would he? I don't know that he would.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

If he could go back and not tell Caroline, would he?

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think the answer to that would be yes.

[Mike Gibson]

I think so, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

And those are two different things. Very different, in my opinion. I mean, to me, some of this stuff is easy to say once you're caught and you're sentenced and, you know what your fate is. But, you know, given that even some people don't do this, they go the other way. Right. And they say bad things about the victim.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The victim's families, they cuss at them and they do all that.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, this case here, I mean, I hope he really does feel bad and sorry and regrets what happened and. And, you know, there's no way to make amends for what happened. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, the thing is, neither one of these guys got a ton of time.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

They're both going to get out and be able to live their lives.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

So they're going to be able to prove, you know, at some point in time whether or not they can live a good life and not do anything like this again. Robert's attorney, John Scullion, said his client had misplaced loyalty towards his brother in trying to cover up the death. And he bitterly regrets his callous and cowardly actions. Or he regrets getting caught.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

One or the other.

[Mike Gibson]

Regrets his brother opening his mouth and telling.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or that. Caroline Muirhead has since moved to the Scottish coast and is seeing a psychiatrist. She has a new partner, she's sober and has a better relationship with her family. Well, good now she. Go ahead.

[Mike Gibson]

I was going to say, I mean, if it wasn't for her, this case probably would have never been solved.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, probably not. I think that's a fair thing to say. Now, Caroline has made multiple complaints against Police Scotland. She told the daily record in 2023, from the word go, the police, they were saying if I didn't cooperate with them, I could end up in trouble myself. I put so much trust in them and they promised anonymity support. Yet the minute you give them what they want, you're hung out to dry. They suggested from the start that I could also end up in trouble with assisting a criminal, wasting police time, aiding and abetting, and that's rough if that's what they did to her. Now, I get it. If she goes through with helping move the body, yeah, she gonna get in trouble. But it sounds like to me, she was told something. She went to the police, and then she even helped them get the information they needed.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like when she went to them to tell them what she learned, they wanted her to do more for him. And because she was scared and also in that weird spot of I love this guy, I don't know what I should do. Sounds like according to her, they put some pressure on her and maybe even

[Mike Ferguson]

threatened her with possible charges if she didn't help them out further.

[Mike Gibson]

Which is not what you should. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's pretty rough, to be honest with you. In the docu series, Caroline said she trusted the system would stand by me and keep me safe when I was at my most vulnerable, but that wasn't my experience. I hope by speaking out and sharing what happened to me, we can start an honest conversation about greater protection for victims and witnesses and why a far deeper understanding of mental health within the police and court system is so desperately needed. All too often, the impact of trauma and abuse is overlooked or dismissed entirely. And this means people like me are being left high and dry to pick up the pieces alone. And there's a couple of really good things there. You know, the first one is protection for victims and witnesses. Right. We. We talk all the time about wanting people to come forward.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

People do not want to come forward if they believe there's a chance they're not going to be protected and even more so, be hung out to dry.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes. The worst thing that you could have them think is going to happen to

[Mike Ferguson]

them, which is what Caroline said happened to her, and then. Yeah, the impact of trauma and what happens to some of these people who, in her case, she did the right thing. She did, but still experienced such a negative end result that that's kind of heartbreaking. After a five year investigation, the majority of Caroline's complaints were not upheld and the police maintained that they offered Caroline appropriate support. Poor. Despite everything that happened, she has no regrets about coming forward and reporting Sandy and said he wasn't convicted of murder, but he did take an innocent man's life. So for me, he is a coward and he is a killer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now there's a, there's a part of me here, Gibbs, that thinks what if he never tells her she ends up marrying a guy who killed somebody and covered it up.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And maybe he wouldn't have told her. Maybe he just. Whatever reason that if she didn't ask that question, maybe it would never came

[Mike Ferguson]

out and maybe they have a great life and maybe he never does anything bad again, I don't know. But it wouldn't have changed the fact that he did this and he covered it up. In January 2025, BBC reported that Sandy's insurance company settled a civil case out of court and issued a six figure payment to the person's family. And that's great that they got some money, but you know, six figures, it doesn't replace a life.

[Mike Gibson]

It doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no way around it. I mean there's no amount of money is.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean there, you know, there's no dad, no granddad, no husband anymore, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. In August 2025, Tony son Mike sat down for an interview with the BBC. He said about the McKellar brothers, what they did was inhumane and you wouldn't do that to animals. They killed him by not seeking any medical treatment.

[Mike Gibson]

He's right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I believe that. I, I truly do.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean that was a, a farm animal. Farm animal.

[Mike Ferguson]

Aminal.

[Mike Gibson]

If it was a farm animal that you hit, he probably would have went back and put it down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

So it wouldn't suffer. They didn't even do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

They didn't do that. And even if they did that, that would have been wrong on their part. But what they did was even worse. They left this guy to suffer in

[Mike Gibson]

agony in the dark and the cold.

[Mike Ferguson]

30 minutes or maybe even longer. We don't know for sure how long it was. Mike noted that Caroline had remarkable foresight. Being brutally honest, I'm not so sure. If I was in the same situation, I would have done and thought the same way. From my perspective, I have nothing but massive amounts of gratitude for that because had she not done that and put herself into these positions, then we would Never have found my dad's body.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. This whole thing centers around what Carolyn's actions did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. There's no doubt about it. Mike also told the BBC that no sentence would ever be enough, but he would like his father to be remembered for the good things he did rather than how he died. He said for me, he was a grumpy old dad who you had your run ins with every now and then, but I'd like people to remember him as the guy who wanted to help everybody.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You want him to remembered for all the good things he did in his life.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Not for, you know, how he died and what ultimately happened for him, but I feel for the family because, gosh, they, they, for a long time, right as we wrap this episode up, they didn't know what happened to Tony.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then once they found out, they had to have been unbelievably shocked.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, a lot of thoughts probably go through your head. Foul play maybe. Maybe just an accident and he got hurt and maybe he's attacked by an animal or he got lost in the woods and succumbed to the elements. All kinds of different things. But is one of them that two people willingly let this man die and then buried his body?

[Mike Gibson]

Never would have thought, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably not.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, this is a guy that fought and beat cancer, right? Yeah. How. How tough that had to be. And then he's trying to do some good things for awareness around it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Helping out a charity to be hit

[Mike Gibson]

and left on the side of the road to die. It's just, it's tragic.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And then, you know, for me, like you said, the central character here is, is Caroline and what she did and, and the sacrifices she made, because I really do think they were sacrificed.

[Mike Gibson]

They were.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, her life was upended completely. And I think she made the right decision. But even in doing the right thing, she suffered like some really serious consequences.

[Mike Gibson]

She did. She really did.

[Mike Ferguson]

She lost this man who she thought was the love of her life.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. Her life seemed to crumble a little bit.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Using drugs and alcohol to cope with everything that was going on. Now it does sound like she's back on track. She's doing well. Well, but which is good. You just feel bad for her because she. Like you said, how selfish for him to put her in that position.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, it's really, really was, but

[Mike Ferguson]

a fascinating story all the way around. But that's it for our episode on Caroline muhead and Sandy McKellar. And that's it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

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