Christina Sanoubane

Summary

---

True Crime All The Time – Episode 490: Christina Sanoubane

Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Release Date: April 20, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson meticulously unravel the tragic and brutal murder of Christina Sanoubane, a young mother from Iowa who was killed just days after fleeing an abusive relationship. The episode explores Christina’s background, the abusive dynamic with her ex-boyfriend, the events leading up to the murder, the ensuing investigation, and the surprising identity and conviction of the true killer. The hosts analyze investigative details, the complexities of domestic violence, and the evidence that ultimately brought justice for Christina.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Christina’s Life and Relationship History

[04:35]

• Christina was born on November 21, 1979, in Des Moines, Iowa, and raised in Cedar Rapids.
• Her childhood ambitions were to become a journalist, diverging from her parents' wishes for her to pursue law or medicine.
• In high school, Christina began experimenting with drugs and got pregnant her senior year, moving in with her boyfriend Jacob Croson.
• The relationship with Jacob quickly turned abusive; she would often show up at work with bruises, openly talking about being beaten.

[08:06] Mike Gibson:
"People stay in relationships that they probably shouldn’t be in because they love the person that is hurting them."

• Christina’s supervisor, Sandy Smith, testified about the visible and escalating signs of abuse.
• Despite encouragement from family/friends to leave, Christina remained because she loved Jacob and feared the repercussions of leaving.

Escalating Abuse and Attempted Escape

[09:52]

• Jacob was arrested twice for domestic violence, including an incident where he shot Christina in the face with a pellet gun. He served only three days in jail for the assault.
• Christina kept a diary chronicling the abuse and her emotional turmoil, including the heartbreaking realization:
  "He criticizes me. He puts me down and physically abuses me. After three years, I’m just starting to realize I was the only one in love." (Diaries, no timestamp)
• Eventually, Christina decided to leave Jacob, moving into her own duplex with her young son, Corbin, for a fresh start.

The Murder

[16:58]

• Four days after moving, on September 4, 2000, friend Todd Hale discovered Christina’s body submerged in a bathtub full of bloody water after hearing her son, Corbin, say "Mommy’s dead."
• The scene was vicious; signs of a struggle included Christina’s sandals, a metal pan collar, her teeth on the floor, and bloody footprints.
• There were no signs of forced entry or robbery, suggesting Christina let her attacker in.
• Christina’s body showed evidence of sexual assault and her throat was cut so deeply that her trachea was severed.

[18:33] Mike Ferguson:
"You have a young mother who’s killed and that’s horrible. But you also have this two-year-old little boy...that my mommy’s dead. That’s heartbreaking."

The Investigation: Suspects and Evidence

[21:35]

• Jacob was initially the prime suspect but produced a partial alibi.
• The investigation also scrutinized Todd Hale (who found the body) and Carlos Robinson, Christina’s new neighbor, both of whom had helped her move in.
• Police scrutinized their alibis and collected their footprints for comparison with the bloody prints at the scene.

[27:54]

• During evidence collection, Carlos deliberately muddled his footprint samples by walking over them again—a suspicious act in the eyes of investigators.
• After matching the prints and a palm print at the scene to Carlos, as well as recovering his DNA as the major contributor from the sexual assault kit, the focus shifted squarely onto him.

Hamburger Bun Clue: A Grisly First

[35:17]

• A key, unique detail: A barefoot imprint was found on a hamburger bun discarded in the bathroom, likely used to wrap the murder weapon and avoid a blood trail. The impression matched Carlos’s foot.

[35:56] Mike Ferguson:
"Never heard of footprints being found in a hamburger bun."

The Confession and Defense

[31:54]

• Confronted with evidence, Carlos changed his story multiple times. He eventually claimed he had consensual sex with Christina and only found her body after returning to check on noises, touching the sink (leaving the palm print) and stepping in blood (leaving the footprint).

[52:03] Mike Ferguson:
"Even if you had nothing to do with someone’s death—how could you just leave them like that?"

• Carlos argued he did not call 911 due to fear of being racially profiled and because he didn’t want his partner to find out about the affair.
• The prosecution dismantled his narrative, pointing to the overwhelming physical evidence, inconsistencies in his stories, and lack of plausible explanations for the sequence and locations of evidence.

Trial, Conviction, and Aftermath

[54:54]

• At trial, Carlos continued to deny responsibility, arguing only that he had consensual relations with Christina on the night she died.
• The jury rejected his shifting accounts and the alternative theories posited by the defense.

[53:41] Mike Ferguson:
"But even if you had nothing to do with someone’s death—how could you just leave them like that?"

• On December 12, 2001, Carlos Robinson was found guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison in April 2002.
• Carlos has since filed numerous appeals, seeking new DNA tests to suggest another, unidentified male might have been present, but these have been consistently denied.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:09] Mike Ferguson (on Christina’s childhood ambitions):
  "I did think it was, you know, just a little strange that, you know, growing up, she wanted to be a journalist. You know, a lot of kids. Okay. Doctor, lawyer. You hear that a lot."

• [11:05] Mike Gibson (on the justice system):
  "Three days in jail. All that is doing is pissing him off and he knows he’s going to be out in three days. But if you put him away for a year, that's going to give her time to get herself together and move on.”

• [35:56] Mike Ferguson (on evidence):
  "Never heard of footprints being found in a hamburger bun."

• [53:41] Mike Ferguson:
  "But even if you had nothing to do with someone’s death—how could you just leave them like that?"

• [54:54] Carlos Robinson (at sentencing, quoting the Gazette):
  "I did not commit this crime. I know it. My family knows it. Part of me knows that the San Eubane family knows I didn’t do it. Justice for me will be finding the real person who committed this ungodly crime."

Lighter Moments & Banter

• The hosts joke about moose track ice cream, footprints on hamburger buns, and (incorrectly) identifying "Tostitos" as a type of bread that wouldn't hold a footprint, showing their signature blend of seriousness about the crime and lightness in their personal banter.
• They acknowledge the nuance and challenges inherent in domestic violence cases, both in terms of law enforcement and family response.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background & Early Life: [04:35] – [09:35]
• Relationship with Jacob & Abuse: [09:35] – [12:19]
• Moving Into New Home: [13:34]
• Discovery of Murder: [16:58]
• Autopsy & Evidence: [19:00] – [21:08]
• Suspect Investigations: [21:35] – [31:38]
• Hamburger Bun Footprint: [35:06] – [36:54]
• Carlos’s Changing Story: [31:54] – [53:41]
• Trial, Verdict, and Appeals: [54:54] – [56:52]

---

Conclusion & Reflections

The episode spotlights the tragic consequences of domestic violence and the complexities of policing and prosecuting such cases. Despite his attempts to deflect suspicion, overwhelming forensic evidence convicted Carlos Robinson for Christina’s murder. The hosts caution listeners about the nuanced realities in abusive relationships, the sometimes-inadequate justice system, and how forensic detail—down to a footprint on a hamburger bun—can seal the fate of a killer.

---

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode delivers a thorough, compassionate, and sometimes darkly humorous exploration of Christina Sanoubane’s life and death. The hosts blend empathy with forensic detail and plenty of thoughtful commentary, making it an engaging listen whether you’re new to true crime or a devoted follower of the genre.

---

[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Mint Mobile / Progressive Ads]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra.

[Podcast Sponsor / Ad Voice]

See full [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 490 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I'm good, man. And you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Doing great.

[Mike Gibson]

Are you? Great, great like Tony the Tiger great.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know if I'm that good because that's a.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a really, that's a great, great.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a great, great. Yeah, but I'm doing really good now.

[Mike Gibson]

You just downgraded well from great.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing good because then I think of that kind of grade. I don't know if I'm that good.

[Mike Gibson]

You don't need that type of pressure.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't need that kind of pressure. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Andrew Bonham.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Bonham. Man. I wonder if he's good with the drums.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Maybe.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jessica Kramer. Gregory.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, hey, thanks, Craig Gregory.

[Mike Ferguson]

Stacy. Coral Leva.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, thanks, Stacy. Love your mom.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ashley.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Ashley.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tim Moran.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Tim.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lori. Quattro search.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, Quattro. Sweet. I just want to say it Quattro one more time. You know, it just sounds so much fun to say.

[Mike Ferguson]

Eventually you'll get it right. I don't even know if I got it right, to be honest with you.

[Mike Gibson]

Probably neither one of them.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And last but not least, El Miller.

[Mike Gibson]

This is a tough name to get.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

It is.

[Mike Gibson]

I think you pronounce it as Miller.

[Mike Ferguson]

Miller. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Brittany.

[Mike Gibson]

What up, Brittany?

[Mike Ferguson]

So we appreciate all the support we get.

[Mike Gibson]

Love it.

[Mike Ferguson]

We have a new episode right now on True crime all the time. Unsolved, where we're talking about Rico Harris. And he was a former Harlem Globetrotter who left his mom's home in California in 2014, and he's never been heard or seen from since.

[Mike Gibson]

Remember that Harlem Globetrotter music? Every time they were getting ready to come out on the court.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know exactly how it goes, but yeah, I used to watch them because they used to be on television. They play that one, that same team all the time.

[Mike Gibson]

Washington something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Washington Generals or something like that. And they just get, you know, they get trounced.

[Mike Gibson]

Love, love. Going to. I used to go watch them play at Hare arena back. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Was that the whole story?

[Mike Gibson]

That was pretty much it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. For some reason, I thought there was going to be more to it.

[Mike Gibson]

No, that was the big story.

[Mike Ferguson]

We also have a new episode coming out Thursday, and it's on Michelle Hunley Smith. And this is a different type of TCAT episode. It's fascinating, though. Michelle Hunley Smith went missing in 2001, and then she was found just a couple of months ago. Yeah, 2026. And her family had no idea. And it turns out she was living, you know, a couple hours away.

[Mike Gibson]

I'll be curious to see the comments on this one on our different social media pages.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it is a different type of case. It's also kind of still unfolding.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, you know, she's got some court dates coming up and things like that, but it's a fascinating episode.

[Mike Gibson]

Really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Christina Sanibane. Christina Stanybane was stabbed to death days after leaving an abusive relationship and moving into a new home for a fresh start. Christina's ex boyfriend was the first person questioned. But when he presented a verifiable alibi, authorities turned to alternate suspects. Christina Sanyubene was born on November 21, 1979 in Des Moines, Iowa. She grew up in Cedar Rapids. Growing up, Christina told her mother that she didn't want to be a doctor or a lawyer like they had hoped. She wanted to be a journalist and work in the news industry. In high school, Christina started hanging out with people who did drugs and she experimented with marijuana, meth, and cocaine.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, look, I mean, the high school, some marijuana, maybe some speed, maybe, you know, some of that white powder might find your way back back in my day.

[Mike Ferguson]

But boy, you are really telling on yourself right now.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm just saying, you Know, people that, you know, would have been around me at that time, not saying I did okay, but math, you know, man, I think that's a whole nother level.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, we don't. I can only speak for myself. I don't have experience with meth, but from everything we've heard, learned, you know, a drug like meth, man, it can really grab you.

[Mike Gibson]

It can't. I mean, we have a really good listener that got. It had a really big, big problem with meth. And, you know, he found his way out of it, and now he goes around, he helps people re. You know, with. With addiction recovery.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's awesome, because that's. That's the really the best people to do it because they've been there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

They know how bad it is, and they know what it's like.

[Mike Gibson]

His stories that he tells is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, man, I can only imagine so. Christina's plans to become a journalist were put on hold when she got pregnant her senior year of high school. She dropped out of school and moved in with her boyfriend Jacob, crossing her baby's father. She gave birth to a son named Corbin. I did think it was, you know, just a little strange that, you know, growing up, she wanted to be a journalist. You know, a lot of kids. Okay. Doctor, lawyer. You hear that a lot.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Astronaut.

[Mike Ferguson]

Astronaut, sure. Fireman. Journalists. I don't know how many children think of that.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I don't think a lot do. I mean. I mean, mine was a little more rare. I mean, to want to be a proctologist at such an early age.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And to practice as much as you did. I thought that was a little strange.

[Mike Gibson]

I walked into that one.

[Mike Ferguson]

After leaving school, Christina worked as a telemarketer for several years. Her relationship with Jacob was not a happy one. Jacob was physically abusive. Christina was often seen with bruises and was open about the fact that Jacob hit her. Christina's mother, Linda Sanubane, recalled asking her daughter why she wouldn't leave Jacob for good. Christina told her she couldn't because she loved him.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know, we've heard this many, many times. You know, it's sad, but it's the fact that people stay in relationships that they probably shouldn't be in because they love the person that is hurting them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we've heard that. We've also heard that the very idea of leaving is so dangerous.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

That people are scared because of what they know their partner is capable of. Christina was close with Sandy Smith, her supervisor at work. Sandy later testified that Christina came in with bruises or scratches and she confided that Jacob beat her. A couple months before she died, Christina showed Sandy a 4 inch cut on her arm and said Jacob did it. Christina told Sandy she was trying to leave Jacob and make it on her own. So there's a couple of things here. Obviously we're talking about violent domestic abuse, which we know is a major problem. But she was not secretive about what Jacob was doing to her. Her friends knew, her mother knew. I can put myself in that position of finding out from my daughter that this was going on. I'm telling you right now, the shit is going to hit the fan.

[Mike Gibson]

It's going to be problematic. You know, I think what happens though, it let's say you find out that that was going on and you go over and you have words with your son in law.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe even rough him up. Right. Is she going to be thankful or now she going to be like.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or mad.

[Mike Gibson]

Mad at you and then decides to break contact with you because she doesn't want to lose him because now he's pissed at you.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a, that's a great point. Or does whatever I do come back to her in a negative way? Well, that's at his hands.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty reasonable possibility.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I can sit here and say what I would do, but it might not be the right thing.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Wouldn't stop me from doing it, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure there like a lot of things I do, there are probably better ways to handle it.

[Mike Gibson]

I will agree.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's such a major problem. Right. We know it, everybody knows it. Domestic violence. But it's also extremely nuanced and hard to stop.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a tell that has been told so many times again and again.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jacob was arrested twice during their relationship. In 1999 he shot Christina in the face with a pellet gun. He was convicted of assault and spent just three days in jail.

[Mike Gibson]

See, to me, something like that, it should be longer. Three days in jail. All that is doing is pissing him off and he knows he's going to be out in three days. But if you put him away for a year, that's going to give her time to get herself together and move on. Yeah, move on. And maybe make him think about some of his decisions.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now it would be different if the, if it was an accident, a verifiable accident. Right. And he had no history of domestic abuse.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if they knew that and he only got three days. Okay. I got a big problem with this.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean he could have took her Eye out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, she may not have wanted to testify against him.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I'm sure she probably did.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that could have been, you know, part of the problem, I don't know, or part of the reason why he only got what he got. Christina kept a diary where she described her struggles and her desire to start a new life with her son. She wrote in one entry, he criticizes me. He puts me down and physically abuses me. After three years, I'm just starting to realize I was the only one in love.

[Mike Gibson]

Man, what a great point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but it's heartbreaking.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think, you know, we talk about physical abuse, but oftentimes what comes with that is verbal, mental abuse as well. It a lot of times goes hand in hand.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, she's being attacked and all fronts.

[Mike Ferguson]

On August 31, 2000, Christine and her son moved into a duplex a few miles away from her old home in Cedar Rapids. The neighbor on the other side of the duplex was 29 year old Carlos Robinson. Carlos lived with his partner, Tamika Sanders. Some sources described Tameka as his fiance, while others said she was his wife. They did have four children together. Carlos appeared to be a kind and helpful neighbor and even helped Cristina's friend move heavy furniture into her apartment. Christina's father told the Cedar Rapids Gazette he had misgivings about the duplex and invited Christina to move back in with them for a time. But she wanted her independence. And I could understand that. A lot of people, once they've moved out, unless they absolutely have to, they really don't want to move back home.

[Mike Gibson]

No, they, they like having that independence.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right.

[Mike Gibson]

They can do what they want. They don't have to worry about stepping on somebody else's toes. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Especially when you're an adult, you're in your 20s, late 20s, maybe even early 30s, who wants to have to go back home and live under at least some type of rule? Because as cool as your parents might be, there's still going to be maybe some questionings. You know, why are you doing that? Why are you buying this? And most people just don't want to put up with that. They don't have to.

[Mike Gibson]

And there's the problem like you have with your daughter, that you're, she's going out buying moose track ice cream and she comes home and you're sitting on the couch eating it right in front of her. It's like her moose track ice cream and you're eating it. It's a little upsetting.

[Mike Ferguson]

Actually, the very opposite happens. I buy something for me and one of them eats it. Yeah, and not just eats like a little bit of it. Once I go to get it, it is nowhere to be found. It's like we never ordered it because they've devoured it and they threw the carton in the trash.

[Mike Gibson]

At least they're not leaving that, just that one bite left in it. Yeah, I think that's even worse.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is worse because now you're just teasing me. Yep, this time of year always makes me rethink what's in my closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things but better ones. Pieces that are well made and easy to wear all the time. That's why I keep coming back to Quint. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials like 100% European and linen and their insanely soft flow knit activewear fabric. Their men's linen pants and shirts are lightweight, breathable and comfortable. Basically the perfect layer for spring. And their flow knit activewear is my absolute favorite. I love their shorts, their pants, their tops. It's moisture wicking, anti odor and soft enough that you'll actually want to wear it all day. And I do actually wearing it right now as I record this ad. The best part is that their prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands. How Quints works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Everything is designed to last and make getting dressed easy. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Go to quint.com tcat for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Quincom TCATT for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Podcast Sponsor / Ad Voice]

Quince.comtcat you're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.

[Mike Ferguson]

Four days after she moved on September 4, 2000, Christina's friend Todd Hale stopped by the duplex. He was there to get the money she owed him for helping her move. Todd rang the doorbell, but Christina didn't answer. Todd returned several hours later. The door was locked. But when Todd looked through the window, he saw Christina's two year old son alone and crying. He thought he heard the child say, mommy's dead. Todd removed the screen from the window and climbed inside. He found Christina face down in a bathtub full of bloody water. Todd rushed outside and asked.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Christ.

[Mike Ferguson]

Christina's duplex neighbor, Carlos Robinson to call 911. And you and I talk about in both TCAT and unsolved instances where people find individuals deceased. And I don't know that there's going to be any situation like that that is not going to be just absolutely completely shocking. What really got to me here, obviously you have a young mother who's killed and that's horrible. But you also have this two year old little boy, her son, who either witnessed what happened or at the very least saw his mother in that condition and then is relaying it to this guy that my mommy's dead. That's heartbreaking.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it is. It just hits me in the gut.

[Mike Ferguson]

Officers determined that Christina was stabbed to death. The attack started in the kitchen. Christina's sandals were in the middle of the floor as if she was struck with so much force. She was knocked out of her shoes. There was a metal collar that might have gone on a frying panhandle on the floor. Three of Christina's teeth were also found on the floor.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. She was hit hard.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. This is a very vicious attack. Thinking about possibly being hit in the face with a frying pan with enough force that it would lift you out of your shoes and also knock out a bunch of your teeth. It's a grisly thought.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

No knife was found at the scene. It looked like the killer had tried to wash away some evidence. But there were still bloody, bare footprints all over the bathroom floor into the kitchen and back. Something highly unusual was found in the bathroom. There were several hamburger buns on the bathroom floor, as if someone had opened a bag and dumped them out. The bag was not found in Christina's apartment, but the clip to the bag was found on the bathroom floor. It appeared the buns were opened in the bathroom and the killer possibly wrapped the knife in the bag so that it would not drip blood.

[Mike Gibson]

So I gotta get this knife out of here. Let me grab this bag of hot dog or hamburger buns. I'll just dump them right here. Put the knife in here, and that's how I'm going to get this out of here without it dripping.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's a strange thing to find at a murder scene. It really is hamburger buns, you know, strewn all over the floor. Now, I think their hypothesis is a good one, that they were dumped out just so that the killer could use the bag. This, combined with the bare footprints, suggested the killer lived nearby and wrapped up the knife so that there wouldn't be a blood trip leading to their house.

[Mike Gibson]

And that seems logical to me.

[Mike Ferguson]

There was no forced entry. Nothing was stolen, which all suggested that robbery was not the motive. During the autopsy, the medical examiner found evidence that Christina was sexually assaulted. Her throat was cut so deeply that her trachea was severed. It just gets worse and worse.

[Mike Gibson]

It does.

[Mike Ferguson]

When the details, you know, are fully revealed. There was no toxicology screening because the medical examiner couldn't get enough blood for testing.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Wow.

[Mike Gibson]

She bled out that much.

[Mike Ferguson]

Almost completely, I guess. The autopsy also noted the metal pellet still lodged in Christina's face from the time Jacob shot her.

[Mike Gibson]

That you only got three days for.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So she had not even gone to a medical facility to have that checked out, to have it removed. So, I mean, as you can imagine, right, Jacob was the prime suspect. He had a motive because Christina had recently left him. And we've talked many, many times about this thought, and I think it's more than a thought. It's proven that, that one of the most dangerous times in these toxic relationships, in these abusive relationships, is when the person being abused makes the decision that they're finally going to leave. Because that's when the abuser knows that they're going to lose the control they have and they become an even more dangerous person.

[Mike Gibson]

That's typically when they start striking out during questioning.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jacob claimed that on the night of the murder, he was 30 minutes from Christina's home drinking with some friends. Two witnesses verified that he was with them.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, sometimes you have to say, well, how close are these friends to them?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but, you know, thinking that, okay, if it comes to it, they're going to get on the stand and testify to this. It's a fairly good alibi, right? I would say yes, compared to some people who say, well, I was home alone that night. I don't really have anybody who can vouch for me. The medical examiner put Christina's time of death between 9pm on Sept. 3 and 3am on the 4th. Investigators noted that not all of Jacob's night could be accounted for.

[Mike Gibson]

I Mean, that is a healthy window of time.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I mean, it's what, six hours? And so, you know, if he's drinking with these friends and, you know, let's say he was there from. I'm just gonna throw something out eight to one. Well, there's still two hours in that scenario.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

So while the alibi is. Is good, it's not airtight if you can't account for all of your time. The police also looked into Todd Hale, the friend who found Christina's body, and her neighbor, Carlos Robinson. The two men were familiar with each other because they had helped Christina move. And, you know, as we said. Right. The ex boyfriend, he's always going to be looked at. And I think especially so when there's a history of domestic violence.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think the person who finds the body also is always going to be looked at.

[Mike Gibson]

I agree with you.

[Mike Ferguson]

At the very least, they have to be ruled out.

[Mike Gibson]

It also makes sense that the neighbor in the duplex would be looked at.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because he was in her place.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, he was helping her move. But when you have no signs of forced entry, is he a person for whom Christina would have opened the door? And I think the answer is yes.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even though she hadn't lived there, this guy offered to help. She kind of knew him in a limited capacity. Investigators were suspicious of Todd's claim that he entered the apartment by climbing through a small window without disturbing the items on the entertainment center that was set up just below the window. They brought Todd to the duplex and asked him to demonstrate he was able to climb through the window without disturbing items on the entertainment center. Even in his heavy work boots, he

[Mike Gibson]

said, I'll show you. Let me do it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, you know, what better way to kind of clear up this issue than to actually recreate it and prove that it can pretty easily be done exactly the way you said it happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like saying, if the glove don't fit, you must have quit. Yeah. I mean, you. When you tell the guy, hey, show us how you got through that window, because we don't believe you. And he shows you. What. What are you going to chase now? You don't really have anything to go after. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The attorneys really. They made a bad miscalculation in having him try the gloves on. No doubt about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Big time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Police brought Carlos Robinson in to give a statement. He was helpful and cooperative and said that he hadn't been back inside Christina's apartment since he helped her move on August 31st and, and I know I've said it gives, but I'm fascinated by interviews, police interviews, and the tactics they use. Now sometimes they go overboard. We've seen that in some cases. But, you know, bringing these people in and even kind of asking them what you might think are benign questions, you're still locking them into things. You are that if evidence later comes about that contradicts those statements, well, you've got them locked into something things. Once the interviews were complete, investigators focused on matching the footprints found at the crime scene. Jacob, Todd and Carlos were asked to provide their footprints. Todd's were not a match. Jacobs were not a match either. But Carlos Robinson was brought back in on September 5, 2000. He wasn't treated as a suspect when his interview began. He was told the interview was just a follow up to see if he remembered anything else. And he was asked to provide samples of hair, footprints, palm prints, fingerprints, and a cheek swab. He complied, but he seemed more reluctant than Jacob or Todd had been. After dipping his feet in ink, he was instructed to walk down one side of a large piece of paper and turn and walk down the other side. Instead of doing this, he walked over the footprints he had just made.

[Mike Gibson]

Like, you're not going to be able to use these.

[Mike Ferguson]

When Carlos was left alone in the room to await the results, he got down on his knees and began praying, which investigators thought was unusual. And it might be, it might not be. To me, what's unusual is being given very clear instructions.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And deliberately ignoring those instructions and walking back over the footprints you just made, essentially rendering them useless or trying to render them useless. Yeah, trying to. I mean, how else can you look at that other than you're trying to not give police a real sample of your footprint?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And hey, folks, if you're looking for a better way to bank, you gotta check out Chime. They're changing the way people bank. It's smarter banking built for you and it's fee free. Forget about the old school banking ways that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. Chime has smarter banking products for everyday people, like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early. With direct deposit, there's no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees, and no monthly fees. You can also earn up to 3% APY on savings. That's seven times higher than a traditional bank. And it's rated five stars by us today for customer service. They have real humans 247 and my younger self would have benefited so much from China. I remember in my 20s getting hit with what seemed to be a mountain of banking fees. With Chime, you don't have that. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com tcat that's chime.com tcatt

[Mint Mobile / Progressive Ads]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services a secure Chime Visa credit card and my paid line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+ status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

[Mike Ferguson]

Smokey the Bear Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Remember, please be careful.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's the least that you can do.

[Mint Mobile / Progressive Ads]

After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smokey bear lives within us a all. Learn [e-mail] and remember, only you can

[Mike Ferguson]

prevent wildfires brought to you by the

[Mint Mobile / Progressive Ads]

USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the Ad Council.

[Mike Ferguson]

Two hours later, police learned that Carlos's footprints match the ones at the crime scene. And his palm print was also a perfect match to the bloody palm print found on Christina's bathroom sink. Additionally, his DNA matched the DNA from the sexual assault kit. And it goes back to me saying, you know, the police ask questions. Some of them might seem, you know, to not be that big a deal. But the one about him being in the apartment and he said, nope, I haven't been there since I helped her move in. Okay, you. You're really painting yourself into a corner when the footprints come back as matching yours. Yeah, the bloody palm print comes back as matching yours. And obviously we've got your DNA found inside the victim.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, not good.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is that your expert opinion? Not good. If you were attorney, is that what you tell your client? It's not good. Not good.

[Mike Gibson]

That's why you're paying me the big bucks, buddy. It's not good. We're in trouble.

[Mike Ferguson]

At that point, Carlos was given his Miranda warnings. He made a shocking admission. He claimed that he and Christina had consensual sex on the night of September 3, he left the apartment, but at 9pm he heard bumping coming from her apartment and went to investigate. He knocked as he entered, then knocked on the fridge and coffee table as he made his way through the apartment. No one responded. He saw Christina's son near the bathroom crying and saying, mommy. He saw Christina's body lying on the floor by the bathtub, but not in the tub. He stepped on something and slipped and perhaps grabbed on the sink to catch his balance. He ran home without calling the police. Carlos explained he was afraid that as a black man, he would be framed for murder. He insisted he wasn't the killer. And to me, this is the classic defendant tactic. Yeah, I painted myself into this corner with previous statements. Now the evidence comes out that is refuting these statements. I gotta come up with something else. So now it is, yes, I was in the apartment. I had consensual sex. I walked through something slippery. I slipped, maybe, you know, grabbed onto something. You know, you just. You're coming up with something or things to kind of explain every piece of

[Mike Gibson]

evidence, trying to cover yourself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, it just seems like it's classic. We hear it in case after case. As we mentioned, the medical examiner believed Christina died between 9pm and 3am Carlos was home alone that night with his children because his wife was away visiting her sister. She didn't get home until about 1:30am but investigators still felt they needed more evidence to prove Carlos was a killer and not just a scared neighbor. After all, on paper, Carlos didn't seem like the prime suspect. He was practically a stranger to Christina. But she had a history of violent abuse with her ex boyfriend. And, you know, we said it right, he's going to be looked at hard. And you have to believe that police were really focused on him early on, and it would take a lot for them to veer away from him. Yeah, an ex boyfriend. The two had recently broken up. There's this history of domestic abuse, domestic violence. How could it not be him?

[Mike Gibson]

But now they have a reason to shift away.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, Carlos does not look good, as you said. Right. Things are not looking good for him.

[Mike Gibson]

It is not.

[Mike Ferguson]

In your expert opinion. The fact that you charge $300 an hour for that as an attorney blows my mind.

[Mike Gibson]

That's my friends and family discount, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is not good for you. This is not good for you. If you say it twice, that's 600.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right. I got a double billion now, buddy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators analyzing the crime scene evidence found something on the discarded hamburger buns. One of the buns was misshapen. Further analysis showed the indentation of a right toe, the second and third toe, and the ball of the foot. There were even ridges in the bread that resembled prints.

[Mike Gibson]

That was some soft bread.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah. Um, so, you know, what are we. We're almost on episode 500.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Of TCAT. We've done almost that many on unsolved. Every case there's something we've never heard of.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. And this is one of them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Never heard of footprints being found in a hamburger bun.

[Mike Gibson]

We got them because we have the prints on the hamburger bun. Book them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, if these prints matched Carlos, it could prove he was the killer and had disposed of the buns. To use the plastic bag to wrap up the murder weapon and transport it back to his house. The Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation Crime Lab analyzed the bread and confirmed it was a footprint. And that footprint matched Carlos Robinson. He was arrested and charged with murder on September 5, 2000. And we've been talking a lot late lately about circumstantial evidence. You know, even without this hamburger bun, could they have moved forward? Yeah, I think they probably could have. But does this help seal it? I think it. It does go a long way.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Not going to hurt the case.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. I mean, he tried to give an explanation for some of the other things, but then now how are you going to explain your footprint in the hamburger bun? Has he never said that he was in the bathroom?

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He said he was outside of the bathroom. He saw the sun. He saw her outside the tub. To see her inside the tub, he would have had to have been a lot closer. Yeah, and maybe that's why he said

[Mike Gibson]

that mean, you know, thank goodness they were hamburger buns and not like PETA or Tostitos, because, you know, probably wouldn't have held a print like the bun did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tostitos, as in tortilla chips?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't think those hold prints very well. I don't know about PETA, but I'm pretty sure hard tortilla chips don't do well with Prince.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't mean hard. I mean the.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, tostitos are crunchy.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, okay, I met tortilla. Exactly what I was trying to say.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, I got you.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Police searched Carlos's apartment and sees two T shirts, two washcloths, one with a red stain, four knives and a broken pan and handle.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, not the smartest guy, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Not if these knives were involved. Not if this is the pan used to hit Christina. And obviously, if the T shirts or the washcloths, if the red stains turned out to be her blood. No, not smart. Investigators believed Christina, a trusting person, let Carlos into her home because she'd already met him once inside, he made a sexual advance that she rejected. He hit her with a frying pan hard enough to knock out her teeth. He dragged her to the bathroom, assaulted her, and stabbed her to death. He filled the tub with water to try to wash away evidence, but he left behind his palm print and his footprints. After he fled the house, Christina's son was left alone for up to 24 hours.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, think about this guy trying to be like the nice neighbor, you know, back in his house, his side of the duplex. He's got a wife and four kids, but he wants to come over here, assault her sexually as well, ends up killing her. And then he has the nerve, on top of all that, to walk past this young child knowing that that child's going to be locked up inside that home for who knows how long with his dead mom in the bathroom.

[Mike Ferguson]

And to me, it's not a coincidence that this happened while his wife was away.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

After the arrest was announced, Christina's uncle told the Gazette that she likely trusted Carlos because he was a married man. She had mentioned that the new neighbor had a wife and kids. Neighbors told the Gazette that Carlos Robinson was a family man who was often seen outside playing with his children. He and his wife were well liked by their neighbors, and I can see how maybe that would make her a little bit more trusting. Right. She's seen him outside. He's playing with his kids. His wife's there. He seems like a good guy, probably

[Mike Gibson]

gentle with his kids. She's thinking he's a nice guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, he's not the lone stranger that you worry about or that most people worry about. They had been in Cedar Rapids for about a year. Carlos previously worked at a convenience store, but had recently started training for a telecommunications company. Neighbor Rich Roefler pointed out that Carlos never showed any anger, even when he and his family were subjected to racist remarks by former neighbors. The Gazette reported that Carlos and his partner, Tameka Sanders, were together for 11 years. Carlos pleaded guilty to assault in a May 1993 domestic abuse incident. Court documents stated that his fiance told police he pushed her into a door, causing her to hit her head. He was put on self probation for one year.

[Mike Gibson]

I always wonder how self probation works. Hey, Self, you're going to be on probation.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, Self Probation is not a term that I, that I don't think I've heard or seen a lot, but I get it. You're not tethered. Right. You don't have a, an ankle monitor and maybe you don't have to check in with a probation officer, but you're just on probation. So I guess if you do anything, you could receive charges for that in addition to whatever else you do.

[Mike Gibson]

It's kind of like on the honor system, kinda gotta call yourself in or

[Mike Ferguson]

basically just saying, be good or else.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now you can argue what we argue a lot, which is, okay, what is this telling the person who has been abusive? And to me it's that it's not that serious. If I do get caught, they're just going to give me a slap on the wrist.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And so you're really not making it much of a deterrent.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this rush hour ad to keep you calm, which could help your driving. And science says therapy is great for a healthy mindset. So enjoy this 14 second session on us. I think you've done everything right and absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, anything that hasn't gone your way could probably be blamed on your father not being emotionally available because his father wasn't emotionally available and so on. And now that you're calm and healing, you're probably driving better too.

[Mike Gibson]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Mike Ferguson]

Liberty.

[Mike Gibson]

Liberty.

[Mike Ferguson]

Carlos father, Timothy Robinson Sr. Said it was a complete shot when Carlos was arrested. Carlos, his mother, Pam Robinson, told the Gazette, our son is not the monster he is still walking around out there somewhere. And I get that right. It would be shocking if this person you brought into the world you helped raise committed such a violent crime. And I don't think it's that unusual for moms dads to just not be able to believe that their son or daughter would ever be able to do something so heinous.

[Mike Gibson]

I think you're going to be in denial. Right. Because that's not my son. My son doesn't do things like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

After several delays, jury selection for Robinson's murder trial started on November 26, 2001. In opening statements, prosecutors described the grisly scene Todd Hale found when he entered Christina's apartment on September 4, 2000. Christina had been struck with a blunt object, then taken into the bathroom. Her throat was cut and she bled to death, her face down. Position suggested sexual assault. Carlos Robinson left a trail of evidence, including his footprints found in the house and, and on the hamburger bun he discarded in the bathroom. Prosecutors argued that Carlos was worried his wife would end their marriage if she found out he made an advance towards Cristina, so he killed her. The defense acknowledged that Carlos had sex with Christina, but it was consensual and happened after they smoked marijuana together. Carlos didn't tell police about the sexual encounter and because he was stepping out on Tameka Sanders and he didn't want to admit it. They said that his footprints were in the apartment because he helped Christina move three days earlier. They were in blood because he returned to Christina's apartment to investigate suspicious noises. The defense argued that police did not fully explore other possible suspects, including Jacob Croson. Three people, including Carlos fiance Tameka, testified that they heard Christina's son crying on Monday, September 4th. Tameka testified that Corbin was still crying when Todd Hale came to the house to collect a $25 debt from Christina. Todd climbed into the apartment through a window and found Corbin. The jury heard Carlos's 911 call where he told the operator, I'd like to report a debt. The guy said she was dead. She does drugs. And to me, it's that the third part of that statement that seems strange. You have a woman found dead in her apartment and you feel the need to add on to the end of it. She does drugs, right?

[Mike Gibson]

Like, hey, this is Avenue. You need to look down instead of looking at me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, I. I just thought that was weird. Todd Hale testified that he helped Christina move on August 31st and returned on the 4th to collect the $25 she owed him. He made two trips to her apartment to collect his money.

[Mike Gibson]

I still think it's strange that people heard Corbin crying, but nobody really did anything if he was crying that much. I don't know. Wouldn't you go check on that if you were living next door?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. Is it similar to the gunshot kind of theory that we talk about, you know, little kids cry. If you're in a duplex, you're probably hearing it a lot more than you would if, if you were in separate houses. Right. An apartment, a duplex, you're sharing Waltz, so maybe you're going to hear it a little bit more. Tameka said she heard it on the day that Christina was found. So, yeah, I don't know what you make of it. So Todd, you know, he's saying he made two trips. The first time, at 11:30am he saw Corbin crying. The TV was playing loudly and he noticed crumpled blankets on the bed. He thought Christina might still be asleep and left. He returned at 6pm because he was worried about Christina and her son and he wanted his $25. There was no blankets on the bed and Corbin was screaming, so he climbed inside and found the body. Todd testified that Carlos helped him move four large pieces of furniture into the duplex, and he wasn't wearing any shoes at the time. He also testified that he didn't tell police that Carlos offered drugs to him and Christina, but he made that statement in a deposition months after the murder. Carlos Robinson got on the stand and apologized for not calling 911 after finding Christina's body on the bathroom floor. But he maintained that he had nothing to do with her death and her throat was not cut and she was not in the tub when he saw her. And to me, this is such a strange thing. Again, he has to try to explain away some of the evidence. But for you to believe this, Gibbs, you have to then believe that someone later comes in, puts Christina's body in the tub and cuts her throat.

[Mike Gibson]

Artsel it really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, Carlos admitted that he changed his story when confronted with the footprint evidence. And he didn't tell the whole story until confronted with DNA evidence, which, you know, you say admitted, but to me, that's just changing your story to fit the evidence.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep, exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

He testified that he went to Christina's apartment shortly after 8pm on the 3rd, while Tamika was out visiting her sister. They smoked marijuana, flirted, and had consensual sex. Twice on the kitchen floor.

[Mike Gibson]

Not once.

[Mike Ferguson]

Twice.

[Mike Gibson]

Twice.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just want the jury to know what a manly man I am.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly, I guess.

[Mike Ferguson]

During the second sexual encounter, he heard a male voice coming through the front door. He jumped up, grabbed his clothes, and in his words, the I just got the hell out of there. Carlos returned to his apartment shortly after 9pm his kids were watching TV. When they went downstairs to get water, he heard thumping and thought they were playing. But when he went down to check, he found that they weren't playing. He rode his bike to a convenience store to buy some beer for himself and candy for the kids. He was gone for about 15 minutes. He talked to his wife by phone around 10pm he told her about the noises coming from Christina's apartment, and she told him to check on her. He settled his kids and went over. He knocked on the door and called out, hello. As he entered. He knocked on furniture as he made his way through the apartment. The only light in the apartment came from the moon and a streetlight in the alley. He heard Christina's son, but he wasn't crying at the time he walked into the bathroom and saw Christina on the floor parallel to the bathtub, a dark substance was coming from her mouth. It wasn't gushing out. It looked more like drool. Right. This is what he said. On the stand. Christina twitched as if she was shivering. He knelt down to examine her. When he got up, he slipped in a dark substance on the floor and grabbed the sink to steady himself. He wiped his bare feet on a small rug in the kitchen on his way out. When he got back to his apartment between 10:30 and 11:00pm he checked on his kids, smoked more marijuana, drank a beer. He didn't want to call 911 because he didn't want Tamika to find out he had sex with Christina.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, why not go down to a pay phone and maybe do a.

[Mike Ferguson]

An anonymous call? Yeah, I get that. I also thought it was interesting that Tamika was the one who told him to go check on Christina. And that is probably true, but most likely it's because of how much he's playing up these noises. Right. That he's hearing from over in her place. So he's relaying this to Tamika. He's probably hyping it up. And then obviously, as anybody would be, she's concerned and she says, hey, you should go over there and check it out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, check on them.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's almost like he's setting all that up.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I also thought, I don't know, maybe it's just me. But it's very strange to hear that. He goes over to check on her, finds her in this state that obviously is not good. And he goes home, smokes some weed and drinks another beer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Just chilling. Knowing that there's a young child alone in the dark with his mother laying on the floor.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm very dubious that at that point the child wouldn't be crying. You know, a child seeing their mother like that, and he's saying, well, you know, the child wasn't crying at that point. Seems so odd.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it does.

[Mike Ferguson]

Carlos testified that he refused to sign a statement at his second interview because officers wanted him to say the body was in the tub, but he didn't find it that way. He testified that he didn't know whether Christina was dead or alive when he left her, saying, I had no idea what was going on in there. I didn't want to stick around and see. And I understand that, that if you're cheating on your fiance or your wife or your girlfriend, you don't want her to find out. But even if you had nothing to do with someone's debt. How could you just leave them like that?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, just. There's a point when you have to

[Mike Ferguson]

put someone's life over the consequences that might come about for your actions. Let's face it, you did it.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

If that's the way it happened, we don't believe that. But according to his story. But again, that's why I find the stories that these people tell so compelling. First of all, they change so much that it's hard to believe anything they say. But even it seems like every step of the way, with every change, they don't make sense. They really don't. On December 12, 2001, Carlos Robinson was found guilty of first degree murder. On April 12, 2002, he was sentenced to life in prison. He said it's sentencing is quoted by the Gazette. I did not commit this crime. I know it. My family knows it. Part of me knows that the San Eubane family knows I didn't do it. Justice for me will be finding the real person who committed this ungodly crime. It's also, to me, pretty presumptuous to speak for the family of the victim.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, the family knows I didn't do it. Really? I'm sure the family would have an argument against that statement. Carlos has since appealed his conviction. In 2012, he filed an appeal seeking new DNA testing. According to Robinson v. State, Christina's vaginal swab showed the presence of DNA from a minor contributor who was not identified. Robinson argued that the evidence suggested Christina had sex with an unidentified person within a few days of the murder, and that testing of items in storage could exclude him or identify the killer. So what is he saying, Gibbs? Yeah, I had sex with her that night. Multiple times. It was all consensual. Yeah, but she most likely had sex with somebody else, let's say a few days prior.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

That.

[Mike Ferguson]

That guy's probably the killer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he's that guy. Probably. Probably did this.

[Mike Ferguson]

Robinson filed a motion to order the Iowa Department of Public Safety to provide the DNA of individual a. A felon on probation whose terms required him to give a DNA sample to the DOC. His 2017 appeal was rejected. And in 2021, the Court of Appeals of Iowa affirmed the denial of his application. So, as we wrap this one up, I mean, obviously it is possible that he'll continue to try and appeal or to seek testing to somehow cast doubt on his conviction. I just don't know how it would, though. I mean, yeah, you might eventually be able to identify this minor contributor. But I don't see how that alone is going to point away from Carlos being the killer.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, is there a possibility, just saying Carlos is being truthful, Hey, I went over there, we had sex together, I left, I heard this thump noise. And then you'd have to say, okay, well what was that thump noise? Could it have been this person a

[Mike Ferguson]

who comes in and actually kills Christina

[Mike Gibson]

because they're upset because they seeing that she just had sex with somebody else and they beat her with the frying pan and then drag her into the bathroom and stab her and. And then leave. I mean, it could happen.

[Mike Ferguson]

But then how does he come back over and she's not in the bathroom? I mean, the bathtub. She's in the bathroom, but she's not in the bathtub. She. She's not stabbed. Her throat is not cut. His story just doesn't line up to me with some of the other possibilities. I don't see any other possibility. The way that he's kind of painted himself initially into what he did and then later on tried to paint himself out of some of those things with conflicting statements. But the conflicting statements paint him into other things. Exactly right. So you just keep locking yourself into stuff that's different things because you're changing your story. But it doesn't answer all the questions and it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. So is it. Is it more likely that, yeah, she could have had a sexual encounter with somebody days before and that person had nothing to do with what happened to me? That's way more likely.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

It would also explain why that person, semen is labeled as a minor contributor.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And the major contributor is obviously Carlos Robinson. I mean, can you say that different things are possible? Yeah, you can say that. But are they likely or even close to being likely? And from my point of view, no, not really.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I agree with you.

[Mike Ferguson]

And to me, they don't rise to that level. That would cast reasonable doubts if I was on the jury. Now, we may not have all the evidence, but based on what we do know and what we went through, I would have had a hard time not finding this guy guilty.

[Mike Gibson]

And obviously the jury felt the same way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But that's it for our episode on Christina Sanibayne. We got a voicemail. Gibbs, you want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Additional Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Hey, my name is Steve Winchell. I'm calling from Queensbury, New York. I am a longtime listener and a first time caller. I want to thank you guys because you did A phenomenal job for me. During COVID I was working in a small upstate New York hospital in a histology lab, and I wound up working the place all by my. So it was just me and you guys keeping me from losing my mind. So thank you very much for that. Now, what I enjoy about your podcast is the camaraderie and how you play off one another and your strengths and weaknesses and in all that stuff. But that being said, I do identify with Gibby to some extent, because correctly may, I got me a bloody good Australian accent as well. I think giving out could be drinking mate someday. All right, I'm done embarrassing myself with that. Okay, I got a couple of cases for you might be interested in. One is a guy by the name of Kevin Jenks who was murdered in Queensbury, New York. And the other case is Colin Gillis from Tupper Lake, New York. Now, we don't know if he's been murdered, but he's missing. So I don't know if that's a pure Ballywick or not, but I probably throw that out there. All right, so before I embarrass myself even more. All right, keep your hat on swivel. Keep your own time ticking. Watch your six. And don't eat yellow snow, mate. Have a good day, guys.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. Appreciate the voicemail. I. I can see why, you know, he. He does have a fondness for you. His Australian accent is about as bad as yours. Not. Not. His was a little better, but.

[Mike Gibson]

What are you trying to say, mate? It wasn't great. Wait, wait, wait. What do you mean? He said, don't eat yellow snow.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I know. You eat it all the time.

[Mike Gibson]

It's like frozen lemonade.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or that's what I told you it was.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I'm confused, but it does seem

[Mike Ferguson]

like he's giving us possibly one for tcat and one for unsolved.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I love that, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

I love that we could have an all Queensberry O week queen's body if we. If we find enough information. But we'll definitely check them out.

[Mike Gibson]

We will.

[Mike Ferguson]

Thank you. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sa.

[Podcast Sponsor / Ad Voice]

Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years. Now, with the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool Progressive Casualty Insurance company And Affiliates Price and Coverage match limited by state law.