David Vander Meer

Summary

True Crime All The Time: David Vandermeer (Episode 517)

Release Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson

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Overview

In this gripping episode, hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (“Gibby”) dig deep into the nearly 20-year-old case of Bernadette Vandermeer’s suspicious death at Zion National Park and the eventual unraveling of the unsettling secrets held by her husband, youth pastor David Vandermeer. The episode journeys through the couple’s background, family suspicions, the investigation's shortcomings, and shocking revelations—culminating in a recent arrest and a tragic, abrupt end before justice could be served.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background: The Life of Bernadette Vandermeer

• Bernadette’s Early Life & Talents

  • Born in 1977, Bernadette was described as a “vibrant young performer, rooted in her faith, engaged in her community.” (02:13)
  • Known for performing as Betty Boop at Vegas’ MGM theme park and covering powerhouse artists—Aretha Franklin, Christina Aguilera, Patti LaBelle.
  • Ferguson and Gibson note how challenging such covers are:

    "You're taking a risk when you cover somebody that sings that well." — Gibson (05:07)

• Meeting David Vandermeer

  • They met in church; David was a youth pastor and played music in productions alongside Bernadette.
  • Bernadette’s father, Richard, "had a bad feeling about David" from the beginning (07:24).

2. Marriage Struggles & Red Flags

• Early Warnings

  • Parents, particularly her father, felt uneasy about David and his involvement with youth, especially young underage girls.
  • Bernadette felt neglected; she wrote letters about David’s coldness and confided in her mother:

    "David wouldn't publicly express his love to her and treated her like she was nothing special." — Ferguson (12:34)

• Family Dynamics & Youth Group Concerns

  • Bernadette’s mother and special-needs sister moved in with the couple, adding tension.
  • Bernadette noticed a teen from David’s group (identified only as SH) seemed unusually close to him.

    “Should underage girls be calling you? …if you're Bernadette, you could view some of that stuff as… I don't know if you should do that.” — Ferguson (12:13)

• Life Insurance Increase

  • Just before the ill-fated trip, David and Bernadette “recently increased their policies from $150K to $600K each.” (19:05)
  • Bernadette discovered her computer password for insurance records was changed by David.

3. The Fatal Hiking Trip (Angel’s Landing, 2006)

• Circumstances

  • The couple hiked up Angel’s Landing early on August 22, 2006.
  • David set up his camera to photograph Bernadette near the cliff’s edge; moments later, she "screamed" and fell 1,200 feet to her death (23:46).

• Immediate Aftermath

  • David was the sole witness; no one else on the trail.
  • Bernadette’s death ruled an accident—despite family suspicion.

• The Family’s Reaction

  • Bernadette’s parents found it highly implausible she would take risks so close to an edge:

    “I did a lot of hiking with her. She was a mountain goat… for her to fall off a cliff, [makes no sense].” — Richard (26:57)

4. Post-Death Suspicion and David’s Conduct

• Suspicious Behavior

  • David received ~$567,000 in life insurance (31:14), bought cars, paid for youth group trips.

    “You get almost $600,000 and immediately you're buying… multiple cars. Seems something wrong.” — Gibson (31:31)

  • Rumors of David’s involvement with teen SH grew.

• Revelations:

  • Former youth group members and Bernadette’s family suspected David’s affair and possible involvement in her death.
  • Bernadette was preparing to leave David because “he kept spending all this time with this other woman.” — Laura, her mother (34:48)

5. A Case Left Cold & The Tip That Changed Everything

• Years of Inaction

  • Despite mounting rumors, no new investigation—case closed.
  • David returned to youth ministry, only to be fired later for having parties with teens, alcohol, and gambling in his home (36:16).

• Breakthroughs

  • In 2022, a former youth group member came forward: David “groomed kids, including a girl he had a sexual relationship with at the time of Bernadette’s death”—the girl being SH (37:18).
  • It took a second tip in 2025, from a former pastor, Barry Diamond, for authorities to act.

6. The Evidence Mounts (2025-2026)

• SH’s Testimony

  • First met David at 14; by 16, their relationship turned sexual—“pay by the hour motels” and even church after hours (41:41).
  • David allegedly told her:

    “The only way we could be together is if Bernadette was not alive.” — SH (45:03)

• More Insurance Fraud

  • Investigators discovered David had staged other insurance claims—car theft, stolen drum set, etc.

• Reopening the Case (2026)

  • Advanced forensic analysis and interviews revealed more:
    • Astronomical data contradicted David’s claim about sunrise; timeline didn’t match his story (53:06).
    • Officers recalled David’s demeanor as “contrived”; circumstances were “far too convenient.”

7. Arrest, Suicide, and Aftermath

• Arrest and Charges

  • David was arrested for first-degree murder and insurance fraud in June 2026 (54:51).
  • At time of arrest, working as charter school counselor and yoga teacher—around minors again.

• Suicide in Custody

  • Hours before extradition hearing, David was found unresponsive in his cell, leaving a suicide note (55:33).

  • “There’s no winners in any of this. We're all shocked, we're all saddened by it.” — Barry Diamond (56:41)

• Family Closure

  • Bernadette’s parents expressed mixed relief: “They wouldn’t have to face the ordeal of a long court case… they hope her story will bring awareness to patterns often missed when an adult working with minors abuses their authority.” (62:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bad Feelings about David:

  “Dads have [intuition] too, especially when it comes to guys. Because we know what 17, 18, 19 year old guys are thinking…” — Ferguson (08:01)

• On Hiking at Angels Landing:

  “I would not be standing anywhere near the edge of a 1,200-foot cliff.” — Ferguson (23:02)

• SH’s Chilling Statement:

  "He told her the only way they could be together is if Bernadette was not alive. And she said this chilling statement stayed with her for a long time." — Ferguson (45:03)

• Hosts’ Outrage:

  “There’s basically nothing that we've talked about about this man that's not disturbing.” — Ferguson (48:23)
  “He doesn't act like somebody in that position.” — Gibson (48:49)

• Final Reflection:

  “These kinds of cases, they make me furious because… you don't want to be married, get a divorce. You shouldn't be hooking up with a 16-year-old... you shouldn't be doing that.” — Ferguson (65:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Bernadette’s Background & Meeting David: 02:13–06:58
• Family Suspicions and Youth Group Concerns: 07:24–12:34
• Marriage Trouble & Life Insurance Increase: 12:55–20:50
• Fatal Zion National Park Hike & Immediate Aftermath: 21:04–26:57
• Parental Suspicion & Early Rumors of Misconduct: 27:26–34:48
• Insider Tips and Case Reopened: 36:16–38:57
• SH’s Testimony & Grooming Details: 41:00–47:43
• Insurance Fraud Uncovered: 48:49–50:10
• Evidence Against David & Arrest: 53:06–54:51
• David’s Suicide and Community Response: 55:33–63:40
• Closing Thoughts & Takeaways: 63:40–68:54

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Concluding Insights

The episode encapsulates a disturbing story of betrayal, grooming, and murder, amplified by the failures of various systems—church, police, and insurance—to prevent new harm. The hosts underscore the importance of vigilance when authority figures work with minors, remind listeners of the tragic ripple effects of such crimes, and close with clear condemnation of David’s choices. The balance of humor, sensitivity, and deep engagement with the facts makes this episode both sobering and essential listening for true crime fans.

Memorable Moment:
Mike Ferguson’s summation, with palpable anger:

“You don't want to be married, get a divorce. …How do you get to that point in your mind where you believe in your heart this is the right decision to make?” (65:20, 67:02)

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Victim-Centered Note:
The hosts repeatedly honor Bernadette’s memory, her talents, and her family’s resilience, reminding the audience to “keep your own time ticking” in the face of tragedy.

Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 517 of the True crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you doing?

[Mike Gibson]

Good, man, sorta. How are you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing good. Yeah. You're fighting a kidney stone, which I've had a number of them, man. They are not fun at all.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. You gave some encouraging words other day in a text message.

[Mike Ferguson]

I did. I said I hope they do what they did to me that one time. Which was not a nice thing to say, but, you know, what are you gonna do?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, you ready to get into this Thursday episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about David Vandermeer. On August 22, 2006, 29 year old Bernadette Vandermeer fell to her death at the top of Angel's Landing in Zion National Park. Her death was ruled an accident at the time and it took him nearly 20 years to solve her murder. Bernadette was born in Phoenix on November 16, 1977. She grew up in Las Vegas. Bernadette was described as a vibrant young performer, rooted in her faith, engaged in her community, according to cnn.

[Mike Gibson]

What it's like to grow up in

[Mike Ferguson]

Las Vegas, I. I don't know, because you and I have been there, like, for weekends. Yeah, we've been there. I've been there twice for CrimeCon. It is a spectacle, man. I get it. If you're not gonna live on the Strip, right. So you're not going to be in that all the time. But it's also extremely hot. It is, like, dry and very, very hot.

[Mike Gibson]

At one time where we were out there, and you morph. We went rooftop. And then you guys left me up there and I couldn't get off the rooftop.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we couldn't find you. We didn't know where you were. We got so drunk the night before.

[Mike Gibson]

It was crazy.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Good time.

[Mike Ferguson]

We, you know, ran into Mike Tyson. It was a whole thing.

[Mike Gibson]

Talking about some tiger or something. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Bernadette's father, Richard Gudenkopf, recalled how Bernadette could captivate a room with their energy. When she performed, a hush fell over the audience. That's. I mean, that's really saying something. There are people that are extremely captivating.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, they don't even have to say anything. It's the way they walk into a room. You know, there's just something about them that people are drawn to. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

You like a Saturday night. Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

At the, like, Saturday Night Fever. You know, you got the chest hair, you've got the long medallion, the white

[Mike Gibson]

suit I walk in, you know, all four or five people there are just like.

[Mike Ferguson]

They're captivating.

[Mike Gibson]

They are. They're like, oh, he really showed up.

[Mike Ferguson]

But now she's a performer. So on top of that, if you're a really good performer, man, you can captivate an audience. Right. Pretty quickly. Bernadette performed in character as Betty Boop at the MGM theme park in Vegas. She also recover or recorded covers of artists like Aretha Franklin, Christine aguilera, and Patti LaBelle.

[Mike Gibson]

And there's some big voices.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You know, there are songs that are easy to sing.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then there are some performer songs that are extremely hard to cover. Yeah. Christina, Patty, Aretha. You're right. I mean, they. They got pipes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or they had pipes. For some of them who are not. No longer with us, not some of the easiest songs to cover.

[Mike Gibson]

No. I mean that. You're taking a risk. When you cover somebody that sings that well.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you. And you see it on those shows like the Voice or America's Got Talent. What was the big one on Fox? American Idol. They always. Especially Simon. Right. Whenever somebody says they're gonna cover, like, the Whitney Houston.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or something, they're like, oh, this is gonna be awful. And then somebody comes out and just nails it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it's unbelievable. It'll give you chills.

[Mike Gibson]

It will.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because those are some of the hardest songs to sing. In the early 90s, Bernadette attended Meadows Christian Fellowship in Vegas, where she was recognized as a talented singer. It was around this time she met David Vanderveer. Vandermeer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

I want to say Vandermeer because I'm. I'm used to hearing that, but this is Vandermeer.

[Mike Gibson]

I used to watch that show that

[Mike Ferguson]

Vandermeer was in, Vandermeer Rules or what is that show?

[Mike Gibson]

Was it One Tree Hill or something like that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, I don't know. I didn't watch that stuff.

[Mike Gibson]

You used to have the poster on the wall.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I never watched that.

[Mike Gibson]

Along with your Vampire Diaries poster and

[Mike Ferguson]

your Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But David Vandermeer was a youth pastor. They participated in a theater production for church. According to the Las Vegas Review Journal, David played guitar alongside Bernadette and church and at other get togethers. And, you know, you talk about how, like, people meet someone. Yeah, well, this is how you meet people. It'd be kind of cool whether it's at work. I met my wife at work or at church or, you know, if you're in a production, you're with somebody all the time, you get to know them. Okay. The next thing you know, a romance could blossom. It's kind of how things happen.

[Mike Gibson]

I love when I pick my guitar up and just start, you know, strumbling with it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Did you say strumbling?

[Mike Gibson]

That's what I do with it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because I think that is a pretty good description of what you would do with a car with a guitar. It'd be called strumbling.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And then somebody just jumps in and starts singing, you know, and you just like.

[Mike Ferguson]

But how are they when the guitar is making no sense whatsoever?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it's like music to their ears.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's spot on. Bernadette's father, Richard, told CNN that from the beginning he had a bad feeling about David. Now you have a grown daughter. I have a two grown daughters, yeah. Did you ever get a bad feeling about somebody that your daughter was Dating.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it happens.

[Mike Gibson]

It does.

[Mike Ferguson]

More than not, I would say it turns out to be correct. You know, we talk about mother's intuition. Well, dads have it too, especially when it comes to guys.

[Mike Gibson]

They do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because we know what 17, 18, 19 year old guys are thinking, how they should act, how they shouldn't act. Because we, you know, we were that age.

[Mike Gibson]

I dated a few girls back in the day, you know, when I was in high school, right out of high school.

[Mike Ferguson]

And probably at the same time some

[Mike Gibson]

of their dads are like, didn't have a good feeling, you know. Oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm sure they had a good reason to feel that way.

[Mike Gibson]

They were very open about telling me they didn't have a good feeling about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they had the shotgun out every time you came over to pick their daughter up. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, but here's the thing, right? What are you going to tell your daughter? I don't like this guy? What's that gonna do?

[Mike Gibson]

This is gonna drive them closer to that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Absolutely, absolutely. It's, it's not going to probably do much to most teenage girls. It just isn't. Other than it's not gonna do what you want it to do.

[Mike Gibson]

No. Very rarely does it work that way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. If anything, like you said, it's gonna drive them more towards this guy who you have a bad feeling about. Bernadette and David got married in September 1996 when Bernadette was 18 years old. They remained in Las Vegas. Bernadette worked at the New York New York Hotel and Casino and continued pursuing her dreams. And you know, a lot of people go to Hollywood, they go to New York. You know, Vegas probably is not a bad place either. I mean, there are a lot of shows in Vegas. Sure would think there are town scouts that, you know, hit up those places looking for different singers and things like that.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, when we were out there just recently, I couldn't believe the, the star power that were performing all at all these different hotels.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, big names.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, just at the hotel we were staying at. Right. Jerry Seinfeld was there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he was there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Barry Manilow. Who? You know, you can say what you want about Barry Manilow, he is a big star.

[Mike Gibson]

He is a big star.

[Mike Ferguson]

He's probably should hang it up.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, as long as he's got his oxygen tank.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, he actually had to cancel his shows while we were there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because of health issues. And to me, you know, he's got more money than he can ever spend.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So it's not about money. Can't be. He just probably doesn't want to give up that feeling of being on stage and being adored, and it's hard to

[Mike Gibson]

let go of that.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure that's very addictive.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe. Think your. Your favorite singer, Britney Spears, is there?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, so my favorite singer. From the late 90s to the early 2000s, David was a youth pastor at Legacy Vineyard Church. He left in 2002 to start a new church called New Song, where he continued working as a youth. Youth pastor. By 2006, Bernadette's parents were separated and her mother, Laura, and her sister Vanessa, who has special needs, moved in with Bernadette and David. All right, that can be tough.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, that could be tough at any age. But I think especially when you're young and the marriage is not that old, having your mom and your sister who has special needs move in, it could put a damper on the newlywed type relationship for sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Definitely could be trying.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would think so. Laura noticed that teens from David's youth group were often hanging out at the house. Bernadette was aware of this, and she noticed that one girl seemed particularly close to David and called the house often because she was underage at the time. So sources have only identified this girl by her initials, S.H.

[Mike Gibson]

all right. Doesn't sound like it's a good thing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I mean, you know, being a youth pastor, by definition, you are going to be around younger people.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, you're a youth pastor.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, where do you draw the line? Should you have them over at your house? Should they be calling you all the time? Should underage girls be calling you? You know, I'm. Obviously, if you're Bernadette, you could view some of that stuff as. I don't know if you should do that.

[Mike Gibson]

A little in the gray.

[Mike Ferguson]

Definitely in the gray. Maybe even past the gray.

[Mike Gibson]

Past the gray.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it was said that Bernadette became lonely and dissatisfied with the marriage. In private letters, she wrote that David wouldn't publicly express his love to her and treated her like she was nothing special. That's what she wrote. She told her mother that he paid more attention to the teens in his youth group than he did to her.

[Mike Gibson]

That's really sad, you know, either because he was doing that professionally or not professionally. Yeah, either way. I mean, here's his wife over here feeling neglected, you know, and she wouldn't

[Mike Ferguson]

be the first one, right? No, she wouldn't be the first wife to feel neglected, you know, Sometimes it's because you, you got a guy who's all about work and works 60 hours a week and that's really all he cares about.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it can go the other way too, right? Women can get into their work that way.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

But let's face it, people can also get into extra marital affairs that they shouldn't. And that can be the cause of it. You know, here it seems like maybe it's a. It could be a little bit of both.

[Mike Gibson]

It could be, you know, that we're

[Mike Ferguson]

going to find out.

[Mike Gibson]

And also think sometimes, you know, the person that you met that you end up marrying once you get married, the real person comes out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, there is no doubt that people change. Yeah, they change over the course of a long marriage. My wife and I have changed incredibly over 30 plus years. But also we changed from the time before we got married to after we got married. I used to get a lot of back rubs. That goes away. Does the back rubs. You're not getting those as much after you get married. You know, the rumpus room time some, you know, often goes down a little bit. Let's just be honest about it. You know, it's not as often as maybe as it was in the beginning. She listens, she will listen to this and you know what she would say? You're damn right. Yes, it went down. I was busy, we had kids. This is what she always said.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I was doing everything. You were working late.

[Mike Gibson]

That's funny.

[Mike Ferguson]

It just, I mean, things change.

[Mike Gibson]

It does change. People do change. You're right. And you have to learn to adapt and, you know, move with that change, accept that change. You know, that way you can continue to love that person. But sometimes people also fake who they are to impress somebody to be in a relations relationship with them, to actually get married.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

[Mike Gibson]

And then they're like, oh, now we're married, I got you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now I can do. Yeah, I can be whoever I want to be now. Laura recalled one incident where Bernadette came home from a late waitressing shift and gave all her tips to David. She then slammed the bedroom door behind her. So, you know, it's one thing to be having trouble with your marriage, but now you've got your mom and sister who are living with you full time. Yeah, well, they're going to see a lot of it.

[Mike Gibson]

You can't really hide that from them now.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be tough. At one point, Bernadette asked David for A divorce. But he told her to consider the optics. Oh, and I feel like that's such a strange argument to make. You could say, I love you so much, I'll do better. Tell me what I can do to make this work. But saying consider the optics, to me that's like, well, I don't really care about the marriage. I only care what it would look like to others if you leave me.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, this won't be good for me in the church, so I can't allow this to happen.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. That seems like such a strange. You're not reassuring your partner. If anything, to me, that's just reinforcing what they probably already think.

[Mike Gibson]

You're almost saying, I'm okay being unhappy. We just got to stay together because it's good for my career.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

As their 10th anniversary approached, David and Bernadette planned a trip to Zion national park in Utah. Bernadette, an experienced hiker was looking forward to the trip. Man. Utah has got a, a bounty of national parks.

[Mike Gibson]

They do.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, we've got some, some good listeners, right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Out of the Utah area. And one of them sent me a big box of national park stuff and coins and maps, and that place is just full of them.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a. Be a cool place to go for a nice long week.

[Mike Ferguson]

It would.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it would. And you probably need a whole week,

[Mike Gibson]

at least a week to see.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you wouldn't even be able to see everything, but you'd need a week to see a lot of it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Before she left, she discussed her and David's life insurance policies with their mother. They had recently increased their policies from 150 to $600,000 each.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a big increase.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. David told Bernadette that the money would help support Laura and Vanessa if anything ever happened to them. And he's not wrong about that.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not an incorrect statement.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

If both of them are killed, that's like $1.2 million that I'm assuming would go to Laura and then she would use it to help take care of Vanessa. But you know, $150,000 to 600,000, like you said, is a pretty big jump.

[Mike Gibson]

It is a huge jump.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now we just said she was waitressing.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I don't know how much money she's making. I don't know how much money he's making. But I'm always interested when we talk about life insurance policies to look at, you know, how much is somebody earning versus how much are they taking out in insurance? Because, you know, if you're making $30,000 a year and you have a million dollar insurance policy, to me that's a red flag. Some. Some is strange.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, normally what they used to say, what, five times your.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You're trying to earning. You're trying to replace your income for X amount of years, not for 40 years or whatever it is.

[Mike Gibson]

Retire.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, until you retire. When explaining her decision, Bernardette sat down at the computer pull up a document to show her mom. She was unable to log into the computer and told her mom David changed the password.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

All right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I mean, that could be innocent. It could not be. Is it because they made this change and now he doesn't want her to be able to go in and change it again or do anything with it

[Mike Gibson]

or see who the real benefactors are?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we don't know. On the morning of August 22, 2006, David and Bernadette went hiking at the Angels Landing Trail in Zion National Park. Angels Landing is one of the park's most popular and dangerous hikes. And you know how I feel about hiking.

[Mike Gibson]

You don't like it?

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not on my bucket list. I've been hiking.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's nothing wrong with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Um, but you know, right now I got a bad hip, so definitely hiking is. Is out.

[Mike Gibson]

It's off the list.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's off the list. I'm also probably not looking for the most dangerous hiking spot I can find.

[Mike Gibson]

Figure if you're going to do it, just do the dangerous one and be done.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I'm actually even surprised that they are categorizing these hikes and like in order of danger.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is it like the, like skiing, you've got the bunny and then you got like the canine or whatever it's called.

[Mike Gibson]

The Black Diamond.

[Mike Ferguson]

The Black Diamond. The Hill of death.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. The K9 would be a tough mountain to go up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, is that a mountain thing? Yeah, I have no idea.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That shows you my real lack of experience with anything having to do with skiing. Climbing.

[Mike Gibson]

I thought that.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not in my bag.

[Mike Gibson]

K 7.5 stopped.

[Mike Ferguson]

K 7.5.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sounds like a radio station. So they set out early at 4:20am they had to use headlamps because it was still dark. Around 6:20am they approached the top of Angel's Landing, which is one of the most strenuous parts of the trail. The sun started to rise at that point and they removed their headlamps. According to David. David set up his camera to take a picture of Bernadette's silhouette against the sunrise. She was standing close to the edge of a 1200 foot cliff.

[Mike Gibson]

That's high up there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I would not be standing anywhere near the edge of a 1200 foot cliff.

[Mike Gibson]

You would not.

[Mike Ferguson]

I wouldn't even be on the path up to a 1200 foot cliff.

[Mike Gibson]

You wouldn't make it up.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I mean, you know, if you're into hiking, this sounds like a, like an idyllic situation.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. Sounds wonderful.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, the. You got the sunrise. So he took a few photos of the scenery and then he waited a few seconds for each to expose. He saw their backpacks in frame. So he picked them up and walked five to 10ft away. Then he heard a scream. By the time he turned around, Bernadette was gone.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

She had fallen to her death.

[Mike Gibson]

That would be very disturbing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. If your wife and you're on this great hike that apparently both of you enjoy.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

An activity you both enjoy. And she falls off a cliff and dies. I can't imagine how horrible. Yeah, that would be for someone.

[Mike Gibson]

And she's an expert climber too, or expert hiker.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm sure that's going to come into play. Right. That fact. David called 911 at 6:20am and reported the fall. Search and rescue crews found Bernadette's body around 4pm that afternoon. That's quite a time difference.

[Mike Gibson]

It is. I can't imagine it's easy, you know, you got a long, you know. Well, they got all that equipment up to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they had to get out there. I'm sure that took a while. And then they had to search for

[Mike Gibson]

the body, rappel down, search and all that, and then recover the body. Yeah, I just find it would be really, how shocking to find the body when you do from the. That type of fall. Oh, I don't think it's just laying there like this. It's going to be.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that. That type of fall is. Is going to be a very nasty scene.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, there's.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no doubt about it. David recounted his story of what happened to investigators. He was asked if he was ever unfaithful to Bernadette, and he said he wasn't. There were no other witnesses to interview. Right there out on this hiking trail by themselves, Bernadette's death was ruled an accident and the case was closed. She was the fifth person to die on the Angels Landing trail since 1983, according to news reports. And I feel like that would be kind of a tough investigation.

[Mike Gibson]

It would be, right? I mean, no witnesses, no surveillance cameras, no nothing.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's two people out there. One of them apparently falls off the edge of a cliff. And what type of evidence are you going to have to refute that or to say it happened any other way? Many people wanted to attend Bernadette's funeral, so a special overflow room had to be arranged. At the funeral, David sat on the other side of the church from Bernadette's parents. Witnesses said he appeared frail and devastated.

[Mike Gibson]

Is it strange that he didn't sit with her parents?

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, maybe a little bit. Maybe some people thought that, yeah, it's not strange to me that he would appear frail and devastated. I think most husbands would sure. In that situation. Now, most people believed her death was a tragic accident, but her parents, Richard and Laura, had suspicions, and maybe that lends some insight as to why he wasn't, you know, sitting with them, sitting anywhere near them. And you Mentioned it. Right. She was an experienced hiker. Richard and Laura agreed that the idea that Bernadette would put herself in a situation where she could fall off of a sheer cliff was implausible. Richard told the Las Vegas Review Journal, I. I did a lot of hiking with her. She was a mountain goat. For her to fall off a cliff,

[Mike Gibson]

no, I mean, that says a lot. You know, you've seen those mountain goats, how they can climb up a wall like this flat. You know, I don't know how the hell they do it.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I don't either. But you would think someone very experienced would know not to get too close to the edge or. I mean, I would know that. I would be scared to death. Do you want to take a picture? No, it's just not happening.

[Mike Gibson]

Right here is good enough.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you want to Photoshop it in later, that's fine, but I'm not standing over there. Doesn't mean that accidents can't happen, because they can happen to the most experienced people in the. In the world and whatever thing they're doing. But Laura also knew about the tensions in the marriage, such as the phone calls from the teen girl in the youth group and the changed computer pass code. So we mentioned it right there. She's living there also. Bernadette is telling her a lot of things.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

As moms and daughters do.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure. They talk.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I know my daughters tell my wife things that they. They wouldn't tell me. They feel more comfortable, you know, sharing it with their mom. Most of the stuff I'm probably don't want to know anyway.

[Mike Gibson]

Probably not.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm. I'm happy. Sometimes my wife tells me it, and I'm like, yeah, I don't really need to know that.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe you're just not the right person to give advisement on some of the topics, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it depends what it is. I mean, they come to me for financial stuff. Well, they should, because I'm good with that.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, if you want to know what the best type of pad is. Wings. No wings. That. I don't know any of that stuff. I've had to buy my share of them, but I'm always told exactly what to buy.

[Mike Gibson]

I always go with the bigger is better.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm not sure that's true, but,

[Mike Gibson]

you know, just want to give that extra caution.

[Mike Ferguson]

I, I saw. Not to break up the, the, the episode, but I saw this YouTube short the other day, and I'm sure it came from Tik Tok or something, but this guy walks in with a box of pads and a box of wings.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And he lays them on the table, and his wife says, what are those? He said, you said get pads with wings. He's got buffalo wings and a box of pads.

[Mike Gibson]

At least he was thinking about himself, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe. At the same time, Laura was dealing with her own grief over the loss of her daughter because she was still living in the home with David.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that meant that there was an added element of fear.

[Mike Gibson]

The tension would be strange.

[Mike Ferguson]

It would be, your daughter has just died, but yet you and your other daughter are living there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you have a suspicion that David had something to do with it. This is going to be some strange nights, I would think. Richard's sadness turned into anger and a desire for vengeance, which led him to lose friends. And I. I'm. You know, you and I probably would be in that same boat. Anger and vengeance. Yeah, I could see that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, Lauren, Richard both realized that they couldn't go on living this way. They both decided to lean on their faith to get through the grief and the questions surrounding their daughter's death. They tried their best to move forward, and you have no choice, Right? You got to try your best. It's hard. Harder for some people than others. Laura told CNN that after Bernadette's death, she didn't see David around the house much. Eventually, he moved out, and they lost touch completely. It doesn't surprise me. No. It doesn't sound like it was a great relationship.

[Mike Gibson]

Not at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, we said it, right. They. Her parents had suspicions of him, had bad feelings about him in the very beginning. Now they think he might have had a hand in their daughter's death. That's not somebody you're probably going to keep in touch with.

[Mike Gibson]

No. Why would you?

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, if there were kids involved, that would be different.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 2007, David received a life insurance payout of approximately $567,000.

[Mike Gibson]

So close to that. 600,000.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

And immediately he began buying cars and paying for trips for members of his youth group.

[Mike Gibson]

So to think about that for a minute, you know, you. You get almost 600,000, and immediately you're buying not a car, but multiple cars. Seems something wrong. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, we do tend to analyze the way people act right. After someone dies, especially if they're getting a bunch of money.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And, you know, on the one hand, if they didn't have anything to do with it, you could be like, well, they're just. They're trying to move forward, and they're trying to be Happy and I get that that could be the case now. If you think they might have had something to do with it, you're going to look at some of that stuff with a much more negative lens eye.

[Mike Gibson]

But if he's buying car now, you know they're saying that he's. You start buying cars.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why are you pointing your finger at me?

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know. So people can see.

[Mike Ferguson]

Stop pointing your finger at me.

[Mike Gibson]

But they're saying that he bought multiple cars. Sounds like maybe for some people in his, his youth group along with these trips.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know if he bought the cars, but he definitely paid for trips. Just wondering for these people.

[Mike Gibson]

Wonder who these people were.

[Mike Ferguson]

They were, if they were the young girls then that definitely casts a different light on it. Right. If you, if you find that out. Richard and Laura always had suspicions about David. Eventually they learned about his alleged affair with the younger woman.

[Mike Gibson]

So there you go. So he, he is having some, according to them, some type of affair with a younger woman.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they use the word alleged, which is smart. Let me ask you a question. What are you looking for in a bank? Are you looking for a stuffy bank that is set in the past doing things the way things have always been done? What if you could get banking the way you wanted it? That's where Chime comes in. No more ridiculous fees. They have the option to get your paycheck early. Chime is a bank that's on your side changing the way people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking. They don't charge you overdraft and monthly fees. They have thousands of fee free ATMs. Why would you pay to get your own money? Chime is built for you, not the 1% and you can get 5% cash back you using the Chime card in a category of your choice like gas or groceries. Man, I wish Chime was around when I was in my 20s because I just remember paying so many fees to bank. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com tcad that's chime.com tcatt it only takes a few minutes to sign up check Chime is a fintech not a bank. Banking services for Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. For more information go to chime.com disclosures Laura told the Review Journal Bernadette was getting ready to leave him. She told him if he didn't change. She was going to divorce him because he kept spending all this time with this other woman.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that's a good reason to get divorced.

[Mike Ferguson]

And on top of it, he's a youth pastor. Yeah, right. I mean, not that it makes it worse, but it kind of does for some reason.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it does. Right. If you're trying to show the youth of today how you should live a wholesome life, I don't think having an affair with one of them is the wholesome life.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and let's not forget, it's not just an affair. This girl is underaged. So, I mean, that, that plays a big part in it as well. So Richard and Laura hoped one day David would be arrested. But years passed and the case remained closed. And, you know, once a case is closed, unless there's some big tip or breakthrough.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not getting worked. Like even an unsolved cold case that sits on a shelf and maybe a cold case investigator touches it X amount of times a year and, you know, looks at it. I mean, if it's closed, what are they really doing with it? Probably little to Nothing.

[Mike Gibson]

Nothing.

[Mike Ferguson]

By 2008, David had returned to Legacy Vineyard Church and was working as a youth pastor under head pastor Barry Diamond. That year, diamond fired David after reports surfaced that David was throwing parties for teenagers, offering them alcohol and letting them gamble in his home.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, there's a wholesome way to show kids how to live their life. Hey, come over here with this person of overaged, overaged over age of age of age, and I'll get you some alcohol and gamble. It'd be fun.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, they are in Vegas.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

On April 6, 2022, the case was reopened after a former youth group member submitted a tip. The youth group member said that David had been using his position to groom kids, including a girl he had a sexual relationship with at the time of Bernardette's death. And that was S.H. right. The girl's initials were S.H. investigators with the Washington County Sheriff's Office in Utah called SH and did a phone interview. Investigators indicated in a report that a follow up was needed, but no one ever followed up and the case went cold.

[Mike Gibson]

Again, lack of follow up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and those, those do kind of make you mad.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure they do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Something is noted that, okay, we need to take a next step, but for whatever reason, that next step is never taken. And, you know, was it on purpose? I'm sure it wasn't, but it's still frustrating.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

When. When the police make a mistake like that. In October 2025, Barry diamond contacted the Washington County Attorney's Office with a shocking accusation. He claimed Bernadette's death wasn't an accident and that David pushed her. Okay, this seems like it is a shocking accusation. It's also coming from, like, a pastor.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So do you take that more seriously?

[Mike Gibson]

Some might, some might not.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think to some degree, most people would.

[Mike Gibson]

It's definitely eye opening. Like, oh, wait, why would you say that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you're going to want to know more about it, at the very least.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lieutenant Investigator Jessica Bate spoke to diamond, who'd been trying for years to get authorities to look into David. He told BAIT that former youth group members came to him over the years with stories about David's inappropriate behavior. Some of them were scared of David and traumatized by the incident. Even after diamond moved to California in 2012, he continued hearing stories from former youth group members. And, you know, to me, this is interesting because it's not one person.

[Mike Gibson]

Right, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is kind of where you see some of these things really come to light. It's not just one person coming forward with an accusation that can't be corroborated. This is a bunch of people who were kids at the time who are now adults, saying, hey, this is what happened when we were younger.

[Mike Gibson]

Makes it harder to defend.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it definitely makes it harder to not investigate, to just gloss over.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. You got to look into it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you have to. After talking with one former youth group member a few years earlier, diamond learned David had an affair while married to Bernadette. That was when things clicked for him. Diamond recalled to the Review Journal. I see a big insurance payoff, which, you know, in and of itself is not unusual, but now it clicks that he was having an affair, which he denied to the police. So that was really the moment of ignition for me. In his interview with the Review Journal, diamond said that although he didn't talk to prosecutors until 2025, he spent several years prior to that trying to get police to reopen the case. Nobody returned his calls.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a shame.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. You know, I. Again, you got to call him like you see him. When it's good police work, you say it's good police.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

When it appears as though they've dropped the ball, you got to say that as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Dropped the ball.

[Mike Ferguson]

An attorney friend eventually helped connect him with a retired Washington County DA who helped reignite the investigation. He was then con connected to investigator Jessica Bate.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Bate set out to interview the former youth group members who were now adults. And sh's name was mentioned repeatedly.

[Mike Gibson]

So it wasn't like it wasn't known. Sounds like many of the youth back then saw this activity going on that

[Mike Ferguson]

they knew wasn't, you know, wasn't right. In December 2025, BET met Sh for an interview. Sh said she first met David around 2000 when she was 14 years old. Over time, David began paying more attention to her. He hugged her, touched her knee, gave her gifts. Their relationship became sexual over time. When she was 16, he took her to a cabin where they had sex for the first time. Their sexual relationship continued for years after that. They had sex at church after hours or at pay by the hour motel

[Mike Gibson]

because you know those pay by the hour motels are very romantic.

[Mike Ferguson]

Huh. You get what you pay for.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

When it comes to hotels or motels.

[Mike Gibson]

And I'm sure he was trying to find a way not to leave a

[Mike Ferguson]

record, put his, have to put his name down, you know, I'm sure you could pay cash maybe back then at these places, I don't know. But let's just kind of go back and look at this. At 14 years old and it does seem like grooming. You'd have to say that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, he's paying attention to her. Okay. Hugging, you know, it depends on the hug. Right. But touching a 14 year old girl's knee, why would you need to do that?

[Mike Gibson]

You don't.

[Mike Ferguson]

What scenario?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Would that be appropriate now? The gifts? Again, it depends on what it is. If you're giving gifts to everybody as the youth pastor, that's not a big deal. If you're giving gifts only to this 14 year old girl and they're gifts that you shouldn't. The type of gifts you shouldn't be giving. Right, right. I think when you look at it though, it's very concerning. And then obviously when you know, it becomes sexual. When she's only 16 years old and he's married.

[Mike Gibson]

He is married.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's not forget about that position of leadership.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

Youth minister and one that's, that's the whole thing. Right. Does she even feel at that point like she can say no? Because here's this guy in a position of power, at least at the church. Maybe she thinks she's going to get in trouble, she's going to get kicked out of the church. We don't know what was going on in her mind.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And then sometimes in those cases too, because he puts himself, you know, the youth minister, pastor, whatever I'm that closer to God, maybe.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, we've seen that with some of the cults, for sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. So they feel even more like, I better do what he says.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we've definitely seen that with. With some of the cults. She knew that Bernadette was suspicious David was cheating on her. SH Recalled one incident where Bernadette came to church looking for David. He instructed her to tell Bernadette he wasn't there. All right, you're definitely not doing the right thing in any sense of the. The word. Having sex at the church on top of it being an underage girl.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

What's this guy thinking, man?

[Mike Gibson]

Like, there's a lot of. I mean, obviously, there's moral and criminal things going on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. Or immoral.

[Mike Gibson]

Or immoral. I mean. Yeah, immoral. Yeah, both.

[Mike Ferguson]

David even bought her a phone that she could use to call him. And this was later confirmed by phone records. When Sh turned 18, David told her to move out of her father's house and into an apartment he rented so they'd have somewhere to have sex. Boy, that is super romantic.

[Mike Gibson]

Very romantic and very controlling. Right. Hey, I need you to move out. I got a place that I rent. You're going to stay there, because anytime I want to come on by, I need you to be there and be ready.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Not. I'm really getting upset with David here.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Apparently, he only talked about their future once, when he told her the only way they could be together is if Bernadette was not alive. And she said this chilling statement stayed with her for a long time.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure did.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm sure after she found out that Bernadette had died, that statement probably took on an even, you know, more chilling meaning. On August 20, 2006, sh now a young adult, met David at church and told him she met a boy her own age and their relationship needed to end. The next day, David and Bernadette left to go to Zion National Park.

[Mike Gibson]

Almost like, I better do something here or I'm going to lose her.

[Mike Ferguson]

You can make that argument. The timing is very suspicious. Sh and David resumed their relationship two to three months after Bernardette died. They ended up marrying in 2008 after David was fired for providing alcohol to underage members of the youth ministry.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

But their marriage was marred by instability, emotional distance, and ongoing infidelity, per the New York Times.

[Mike Gibson]

Infidelity? What?

[Mike Ferguson]

Why would there be infidelity? I always. You know, I'm always shocked that people, you know, they're the ones who are cheating with someone.

[Mike Gibson]

Right, Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Am I saying that correctly? So let's say a man is cheating on his wife.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

With. With another woman.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

He ends up marrying that woman, and. And then that woman can't believe that he would be unfaithful to her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's how the whole relationship started.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You think this guy is just now all of a sudden going to be, like, a great guy?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably not.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

SH Told investigators she believed David was having an affair after finding condoms and hotel receipts. They divorced in 2014.

[Mike Gibson]

That's good instincts.

[Mike Ferguson]

There it is. But, man, I'll tell you, I really feel bad for this. This girl.

[Mike Gibson]

I do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, you could say, okay, at some point, she was an adult. Should she have made some of the decisions she made? Yeah, probably not, but I don't think there's any doubt she was groomed from a young age. And what did that do to her mentally? Like, she probably thought, I mean, I need to be with this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I'm sure he got into her head.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And any rational decision would not probably

[Mike Ferguson]

pan out, or it wouldn't have made sense to her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Because of all the ways that he was probably manipulating her around that time. David Said is quoted by cnn. Everything afforded to them during the duration of their marriage in. Came from Bernadette's life insurance. So not only did he cheat on her.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And people think he had something to do with her death, he married this young girl who he had groomed.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

They got, you know, once they got married, but it was Bernadette's life insurance that funded their whole life, which is very disturbing. It is. I mean, there's basically nothing that we've talked about about this man that's not disturbing.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. For someone that, again, is a. Or was a youth minister, he doesn't act like somebody in that position.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, not at all. Prosecutors learned that David made insurance claims before and after Bernadette's death. In July 2006, he received approximately $46,000. 500.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

46. 5.

[Mike Gibson]

500. $46,500.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. I put the dollars in front of the 500, and it completely threw me off. But this was after an SUV he purchased months earlier was reported stolen and then was later recovered near his house. In 2008, he got a $10,000 payment after his drum set was stolen from the church where he was working. Witnesses told investigators the church burglary was strange because the church wasn't broken into. It was either left unlocked or accessed by someone with a key. And David had a key at the Time.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, shocking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, is it shocking that a guy who would do all the other things we've talked about would be into insurance fraud as well?

[Mike Gibson]

No, I cheat. Still. Underage sex.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You use the word morals. I definitely don't think he had any.

[Mike Gibson]

He doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

And he certainly didn't have a seen seemingly a problem breaking the law or breaking his marriage vows or any of that. David also got an insurance pay payout in 2014 after he reported over $12,000 worth of cameras and instruments stolen from his home.

[Mike Gibson]

I was getting these payouts, man. If I would claim one thing that he claimed, I would have been canceled.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, that, yeah, that was going to be my thing. Is this all with the same insurance company? Yeah, because if not, if it was, they need to take a look because this guy is getting by with a lot more than I think me and you would.

[Mike Gibson]

I think some flags should have or would have popped up, you know?

[Mike Ferguson]

You know. Investigator Jessica Bate met with the chief of Zion national park to review fatalities from the Angels Landing area dating back to the 1980s. Of 17 documented deaths, only the ones that occurred in the area where Bernadette fell were deemed suspicious or suicide. Accidents do not typically happen in this spot. You know why? Because people don't mess around.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

When they are close to a 1200 foot drop off a cliff. That at least that's my theory.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm assuming they walk up to that 12,000 foot drop or 1200. 1200.

[Mike Ferguson]

1200 foot drop, but it might as well be 12,000. What's the difference?

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. I'm assuming they walk up to that only for one reason is to jump.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not to let me don't play around. Right.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm going to mess around knowing that they could tumble over.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I, I, I, I don't see it happening that often. Now, could somebody just be so foolish that they want to act out or maybe get it on camera? Yeah, it could happen.

[Mike Gibson]

Could.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think by and large it doesn't. Because people know there's no coming back.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

You make one misstep and you're gone.

[Mike Gibson]

And remember, she's an experienced hiker or some. Assuming she knew the risk of not doing something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, she knew better than most. But you also don't need to be that experienced to know that falling off this really high cliff is going to not be good for you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, Bate also spoke to officers who were at Zion the day Bernadette died. According to Bates report, an officer recalled David's statements and demeanor to be contrived. Another officer stated the incident seemed strange because it was far too convenient. The location, the time of the morning, no witnesses. Bate and another officer collected astronomical data pinpointing the moment David said Bernadette fell. When he spoke to the police, he claimed they took off their headlamps because the sun was starting to rise. Based on moon data, the sun hadn't risen at that time. It didn't rise until 34 minutes after his phone call.

[Mike Gibson]

So, still dark.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's pretty interesting. You can go back and, and figure all that out. David's arrest affidavit was signed on June 16, 2026. So this is just like a month ago.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, just less than a month ago.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's a very recent happening. According to the probable cause affidavit, at the time, due to a lack of evidence and limited investigation, Bernadette Vandermeer's fault was ruled an accident and the case was closed, although investigators felt the circumstances were suspicious. I get lack of evidence. I also get limited investigation.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think they closed it pretty quick, but I don't know if that was the times or that they just had nothing to go on. No way to say it wasn't an accident or. Or if they just didn't do what they should have done. I really don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think maybe they. Maybe they just felt it was an accident.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe. The affidavit continued. David had a lot to lose if Bernardet found out about his relationship. He stood to lose his job as a youth pastor at a church due to infidelity. David stood to lose his marriage based on sh's age at the time this their relationship became physical. David faced possible criminal charges and being a registered sex offender. Yeah, so, you know, when you talk about motive, there's a lot there.

[Mike Gibson]

There is.

[Mike Ferguson]

If he thinks, which I believe he did, Bernardette was on to him and could potentially expose him.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think she definitely was on to him based on things that she told her mom.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that would be a motive for Mercury.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

David knew his wife was unhappy and they talked of divorce. He also knew his wife was suspicious of the infidelity and was catching on to his actions. This is all in the affidavit. David was arrested for first degree murder and insurance fraud. On June 22, 2026, he was booked into the Clark County Detention center in Las Vegas, where he waited extradition to Utah. At the time of his arrest, he was working at a. As a charter school counselor and a yoga teacher.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that right there. Scary not the yoga. Yoga teacher is kind of scary, too. It could be, but, you know, a charter school counselor, he's around kids. He should not be around kids.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, this is a guy who should never be around anybody underage. Hours before he was due in court for his extradition hearing on June 25, 2026, officers found David unresponsive in his cell. There was a suicide note and a handwritten will, the contents of which were not revealed. David was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. His death was announced that morning during the hearing. So, I mean, what do you make of it, Gibbs? I mean, to me, I just think there are some people who just do not want to go through with the trial.

[Mike Gibson]

Right, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

They don't want things to come out that they know are going to come out. And they probably have a. A pretty good knowledge that they're going to prison and they know they won't make it. This is probably a guy who could not make it in prison.

[Mike Gibson]

Right? Yeah. For sure he wasn't going to make it. Especially if what was alleged that he

[Mike Ferguson]

did was actually true and people found out about it in prison.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Things would not have been good for him.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

After news of David's death went public, David's former boss, Barry diamond, said in a phone interview with the Las Vegas Review Journal, there's no winners in any of this. We're all shocked, we're all saddened by it. Our heart goes out to David's family, first of all, because they're great people. They were part of our church at one time, so we're grieving along with them for this whole thing. On July 15, 2026, the Las Vegas Review Journal reported that former Legacy Vineyard Church staff Jess and Evan Valentine claimed that they shared their concerns about rehiring David Vandermeer with Pastor Denise diamond after David sought reemployment. Denise diamond could not be reached for comment. Retired Senior Pastor Barry diamond declined to address the Valentine's allegations in a follow up interview through an attorney. The Diamonds objected to the accounts. The Valentine's gay. So we mentioned it. Right. He worked there, he left, then he came back. And this couple is saying they, they laid it out, hey, don't rehire this guy because here's all the stuff he was doing.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And according to them, they rehired him

[Mike Gibson]

anyway, knowing what was being said. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Barry diamond previously told the Review Journal he was not aware of David's alleged misconduct until after he was rehired. The Valentine said that at the time of Bernadette's death, Neither they nor the others in the congregation suspected foul play. They believed it was a tragic accident. And I think again, a lot of people did.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure they did.

[Mike Ferguson]

They went hiking, wanted to take a cool picture, she slipped and she fell off the side of this cliff.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you can make the story sound believable.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, you can, especially if you don't know all of the other stuff. Right. If you don't know about the problems with the marriage, you don't know about the grooming and the affair with this underage girl.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Then you probably think their marriage is pretty good and this was just an accident. Now, once all that stuff comes out, it seems pretty clear cut.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure does. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

That this guy had a hell of a motive, including the almost $600,000 in life insurance money. Evan Valentine replaced David at Legacy after he left to start his own Church in 2002. Soon after the transition, kids in the youth group started telling the Valentine's stories about. About gatherings hosted by David where there was underaged drinking and gambling. At least two girls said he made sexual comments or made them feel uncomfortable. So now it makes sense. Right. They were in a really good position to learn this information because they essentially took over his job.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Several years later, Denise diamond proposed that David rejoin the staff. Jess and Evan objected to this, and they said they told Denise about the alleged parties and. And inappropriate conduct. Jess told the Review Journal, they basically put a person who in my mind was a child predator back with kids. Through their attorney, the diamond said they allowed David back out of compassion for a grieving widower. They also said the grooming of a teenager occurred when he was at New Song Church, and they had no knowledge of what occurred at New Song and no suspicion David killed his wife. The specific assertion that they knew of his misconduct when he returned to Legacy is false, per their attorney.

[Mike Gibson]

So they're saying they didn't know about

[Mike Ferguson]

any of that and the Valentine's are saying you did because we told you about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So there, there seems to be a big discrepancy there. But I. I get it. Right? There's. There could be some liability if certain people admit to knowing about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Why would. Yeah, I'm sure their attorney's like, don't hear say so you are not going to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Don't say nothing. According to the affidavit, as mentioned, Barry diamond learned David was throwing parties and fired him in 2007 or 2008. David was still dating sh at the time, who was then an adult. According to the Las Vegas Review Journal. Sh said David became her youth pastor when she was 14, most likely in or around 2000. The review journal reported that this suggests his involvement at Legacy overlapped since the relationship turned sexual in 2002, when sh was 16.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

According to the Valentine's, the girl was a member of Legacy's youth group at one point. And so that's interesting, right, because the diamond guy is saying, this didn't happen here anyway. And some people are saying, no, it.

[Mike Gibson]

It did, it did. Based on her age and the fact that she was with them.

[Mike Ferguson]

But both the Valentines and the Diamonds say they didn't know about the affair because David went to great lengths to hide it. After David's death was announced, Bernadette's mother, Laura, felt sad at first, but then she felt relieved because they wouldn't have to face the ordeal of a long court case. And I get that. You know, you do hear that sometimes from the family, whether it's because of a death or, I think more often because of a plea deal. Right. A lengthy trial where a ton of information comes to light has to be extremely hard for the victim's family in every, you know, instance. Now, I think the, the flip side argument would be, well, we would love to see this guy be convicted and have to serve time.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

But obviously, at this point, that's, that's not an option.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Her father Richard also experienced complicated emotions. He said David's family didn't deserve this and they're good people. He hoped due process would give David time to think about what happened to Bernadette. And obviously that's not going to happen.

[Mike Gibson]

No. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He's not going to have to sit around and think about what he did because he's no longer alive. David's official cause and manner of death have not been made public. Although there will be no conviction, Bernadette's parents do feel clarity. They told CNN that they hope Bernadette story will bring awareness to patterns that are often missed when adult working with minors abuses their authority. They also hope people will remember Bernadette for her faith and the joy she shared with others through her voice. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, this David guy, you know, they say don't speak ill of the dead, but I'm going to anyway. He was a. He was a total piece of garbage.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure he was.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I'm very incensed by what this man did. You know, you have the grooming of a young girl. When you're in a position of power, you have a Sexual. I don't even want to use the word relationship because it's really not when she's only 16 years old, that resulted from the grooming. But at the same time, you're married, so you're doing all of this stuff that's illegal. And, and then, you know, you're also cheating on your wife. And it does seem, although it wasn't proven in a court of law, but you know, that he killed his wife, Bernadette. And I'm sure prosecutors believe that he just pushed her off the ledge when she was looking at whatever she was looking at, looking away from him or whatever the call the situation might have been. But why? You know, I always want to dissect the reasons why he didn't want to be married to her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is often the case in these types of scenarios. He wanted to be with a 16 year old girl from his youth group who he had been grooming for two plus years.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

He even said it himself. He used this sizable life insurance payout to then later fund his life with sh. Once they got together and then ultimately got married.

[Mike Gibson]

He did.

[Mike Ferguson]

So he fueled his happiness on her death. Yeah, that's basically the way I look at it.

[Mike Gibson]

He was okay with that.

[Mike Ferguson]

He was totally fine with it. And you know, these kinds of cases, they, they make me furious because I'm just like, you know, you don't want to be married, get a divorce.

[Mike Gibson]

Now.

[Mike Ferguson]

You shouldn't be hooking up with a 16 year old.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. You shouldn't be doing that. But if you want to be with someone else who's of legal age, get a divorce.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right. Do it the right way, get divorced, then go ahead and people do it all the time. They do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is it fun? I'm sure not. I've never been divorced. I know, it's tough, right? You got to give up some of your money. You got to split assets.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you do.

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you know about that. But again, how can you sit there and weigh, right. What do you got, a piece of paper? And you got pros and cons. Yeah, pros, divorce, pros murdering my wife. And then the cons of each, like

[Mike Gibson]

you're that, that character that. Oh, what is his name? Ben Stiller plays that movie with Jennifer Aniston and the other girl. He's trying to weigh which one he should actually.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is that the Along Came Polly?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he's keeping. He's an actuary or something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Or an actualist.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, something like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I kind of remember the Movie. I don't. For some reason. I just remember he, like, poops his pants or something and.

[Mike Gibson]

You remember Jennifer Aniston. I know that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, I remember. I always remember Jennifer Aniston. But I. I'm just like. How do you get to that point in your mind where you believe in your heart this is the right decision to make?

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't either. I don't either. But, yeah, I mean, you feel bad for a lot of people in this case.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, I think about sh. What would her life have been with, like, if this guy hadn't messed with her? I mean, if you hadn't groomed her,

[Mike Gibson]

he just would have been a normal youth minister.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Gave her normal advice and guidance and not try to do what he did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure her life would have probably been better. I don't know what it's like right now.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But the getting married to him wouldn't have happened. I would have met someone her own age and gone through life the way that a lot of us do and.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure she'd be happier. Her family might have been happier. Sure. You know, there's all.

[Mike Ferguson]

Obviously Bernadette's family and even. Even David's family.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because they're hurt. Right. Everybody came out and said they were great people.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they just happened to have a son who did a very heinous thing. Actually, a number of heinous things.

[Mike Gibson]

They just caught up in the damages.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it's also fascinating that it's so recent like this. This just happened. Although her death occurred, you know, pretty long time ago.

[Mike Gibson]

And that would be hard, too, Right. Knowing that this occurred back on such and such date. Here it is, all these years later, and you find out that it actually is true. He did do it. I mean, what does that tell you about all the conversations that maybe some of these people had with him over the years?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, they were right in their suspicions of him. And I don't know about their conversations with him because I. I know her parents. I don't think they had many.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

After the fact. But.

[Mike Gibson]

But some people had to believe him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, some people did.

[Mike Gibson]

And had to sit around with them not knowing that he was a killer. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

A lot of members of the church said they did. But that's it for our episode on Bernardette, David Vandermeer. And that's it for another episode of the True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.