Johnny Lewis

Summary

True Crime All The Time – Episode 428: Johnny Lewis

Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Date: March 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson dive deeply into the tragic story of Johnny Lewis, an actor best known for his role as “Half Sack” on Sons of Anarchy, who, in 2012, killed his landlady, Kathy Davis, and subsequently died from a fatal fall. The hosts trace Johnny’s rise in Hollywood, his rapid decline following a motorcycle accident, and the perplexing circumstances that led to violence and death. Through candid discussion, the episode examines mental health, brain injury, the criminal justice system, and the broader question of accountability versus tragedy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Johnny Lewis – From Hollywood Success to Downfall

• Childhood & Family Background

  • Johnny Lewis grew up in LA’s North Hollywood/Sherman Oaks.
  • His family were Scientologists of high ranking (“operating thetan”).
  • “According to the writings of founder L. Ron Hubbard, an operating thetan is someone in a spiritual state who offers knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space, and time.” (Mike F., 06:31)

• Acting Career

  • Early start: Auditioning from age 6; first role at 7 in a safety video.
  • Guest spots on TV (7th Heaven, Malcolm in the Middle, Drake & Josh, The OC).
  • Notable relationships: Short romance with Katy Perry, which allegedly inspired some of her songs.
  • Most known for: Role as Kip “Half Sack” Epps in Sons of Anarchy.
    • Left the series after season two due to unease with increasing violence in the show:
      • “He told us he left because the show was getting into gratuitous violence. He didn’t want to communicate that as an artist.” (Ferguson quoting Lewis’ father, 14:03)

2. Post-Fame Life: Writing, Personal Struggles, and Family

• After leaving Sons of Anarchy, Lewis focused on writing projects and took residence at the Writer’s Villa (a famed Los Feliz mansion and creative retreat owned by Kathy Davis).
• A daughter, Culla Mae, was born in 2010 from a relationship with actress Diane Marshall-Green—leading to a difficult co-parenting and custody situation.
• Battle with mental health began to surface in the years following some personal and professional disappointments.

3. The Motorcycle Accident – Turning Point

• In late October 2011, Johnny suffered a serious motorcycle crash.
• Friends and family noticed a marked change: erratic behavior, mood swings, use of a fake British accent, sensitivity to light, and social withdrawal.
  • “He looked like a wounded, broken animal…wouldn’t let anyone near him…highly sensitive to light.” (Ferguson referencing sister Anna, 26:46)
• Refused MRIs, resisted psychiatric care, and soon engaged in violent, bizarre incidents.

4. Descent into Violence and Legal Trouble

• Escalating Incidents (2012):
  • Assaul­­­­ting men during a paranoia-fueled break-in (January).
  • Suicide attempt; walking into the ocean fully clothed (February).
  • Multiple arrests: Assault, burglary, resisting arrest, and breaking into strangers’ houses—overlapping court cases and failures to appear (28:19–30:45).
  • Time spent in jail and a mental health facility (Ridgeview Ranch); prescribed antipsychotics and medication for possible schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.
    • “Doctors prescribed Lewis drugs to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, but he was resistant to taking medication...he may have pretended to swallow the pill only to spit them out later.” (32:18)

5. Mental Health and Brain Injury Debate

• Confusion over accurate diagnosis: Psychosis, bipolar disorder, or traumatic brain injury?
  • “We got the motorcycle head injury. Then he’s beaten in the head 17 times...pounding his own head against the concrete...doctor’s own diagnosis of brain trauma. And that’s just the stuff we know about.” (Quoting Michael Lewis, 33:54)
• UCLA neurologist, Dr. Christopher Giza, interviewed for LA Magazine, explains frontal lobe injury’s link to violence, but states Lewis' symptoms seem milder than typically resulting in such aggression.

6. Failure of the System & Release from Jail

• Judges and probation officers recognized Lewis as a danger to the community:
  • “Given this, Lewis will continue to be a threat to any community he may reside.” (USA Today quote, 42:15)
• Despite this, overcrowded jails led to early release after just six weeks (rather than 2 years).

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The Final Tragedy

The Day of the Crime (September 26, 2012)

Timeline:

• Morning: Johnny, described as “bedraggled,” introduced himself to a neighbor, Dan Blackburn, before suddenly attacking a painter and the Blackburns with “superhuman strength.”
  • “He had what felt like superhuman strength and didn’t seem to feel any pain.” (49:03)
• Blackburn and others escaped and barricaded themselves as Johnny retreated to Davis’s house.
• Police arrived within minutes and found Johnny’s body in the driveway—he had fallen (or jumped) from the roof, dying instantly.

Horrific Scene Inside:

• First floor undisturbed, but upstairs:
  • Davis’s cat killed by hand.
  • Her bedroom: A scene of extreme violence and overkill—beaten, strangled, face and skull destroyed, punctures to the cheek from a mechanical pencil.
    • “Blunt force trauma fractured her entire skull and obliterated the left side of her face, leaving her brain exposed.” (52:20)
• Forensic suggestion: Attack started after confrontation about electricity (tied to his light sensitivity).
• “Investigators believe he may have stomped on her skull.” (54:08)

Immediate Aftermath

• Kurt Sutter (Sons of Anarchy creator) Statement:
  • “It was a tragic end for an extremely talented guy who unfortunately had lost his way...I wish I could say I was shocked by the events last night, but I was not. I am deeply sorry that an innocent life had to be thrown into his destructive path.” (56:33)
• Speculation on Drugs:
  • Wide speculation about involvement of “bath salts” or other designer drugs (58:22–59:03).
  • Autopsy reveals: No drugs/alcohol or even prescribed antipsychotics in his system (60:37).

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Leaving Sons of Anarchy:
  • “He really wanted out of his contract...Johnny wasn’t happy creatively.” (13:29)
• On His Sudden Change:
  • “It was another person completely. He had a look I’ve only seen in disturbed veterans of war.” (Jonathan Tucker, 41:52)
• On the System’s Failure:
  • “Six weeks later...Johnny was released from jail. Apparently the jail was overcrowded...two years down to six weeks.” (42:37)
• Regarding Treatment and Accountability:
  • “If you’re not going to take the treatment and if you’re not going to take your medication, things aren’t going to go well.” (64:18)
• On Victim Kathy Davis:
  • “This is a woman who by all accounts was loved by, you know, everyone who met her...she was a very generous person who looked after people.” (52:59)

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Timeline Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background & Early Career: 05:32–09:50
• Leaving Sons of Anarchy: 12:56–15:06
• Writer’s Villa & Kathy Davis: 15:24–18:47
• Motorcycle Accident & Behavior Change: 21:24–27:18
• Legal Trouble Escalates: 28:19–34:31
• Mental Health Discussion: 34:32–36:38
• Probation Assessment: 41:36–42:15
• Release and Events Leading to the Murder: 42:37–54:25
• Scene of the Crime: 49:03–54:25
• Post-Crime Analysis, Drugs, and Autopsy: 56:33–61:06
• Wrap-Up and Moral Questions: 62:10–66:26

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Conclusion & Reflections

Ferguson and Gibson emphasize the ongoing mystery over what ultimately drove Johnny Lewis’s rapid, violent decline—mental illness, untreated brain injury, or system failures. The story is a tragic intersection of untreated health issues, fame, the criminal justice gap, and innocent loss. Listeners are left considering what could have prevented the death of Kathy Davis and the spiral of Johnny Lewis.

“It’s just a tragedy all the way around…It’s such a big shift from how he was before the motorcycle accident to after.” (Mike & Gibby, 65:58)

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Episode Tone:

• Respectful, analytical, conversational, occasionally humorous but always serious with respect to the crime. The hosts ask tough questions about responsibility, systemic failures, and the limits of understanding a case like Johnny Lewis’s.

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For more, listen to the full episode on True Crime All The Time or explore their references to the LA Magazine deep-dive on Johnny Lewis.

Transcript

[A]

You know, folks, everyone in my family, and I'm including myself here, has a bad habit of signing up for things subscriptions with the intent to cancel at some point. We just never do. So we end up with a lot of subscriptions that we're not using, and that adds up to a lot of dollars. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And who doesn't need that? Their dashboard lays out your total financial picture, including bill due dates and paydays, in a way that's very easy to digest. You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your past spending. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. And I've been using Rocket Money for years now. I know it has saved me a bundle of money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com tcat today. That's RocketMoney.com tcatt RocketMoney.com tcat. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 428 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson here and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[B]

Hey. I'm doing pretty good about you.

[A]

I'm doing great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just took a shot of honey.

[B]

You and the weird things that you put in your mouth.

[A]

Yeah, Honey is what, you know, kind of coats the. Coats the throat.

[B]

But you were like gurgling it or gargling it.

[A]

What are you going to do? You and I just finished taping a Patreon episode. We did that. By the time this comes out, will have dropped Saturday night. It's on the Bermondsey Horror and it's about a love triangle between a Swiss woman, an Irishman, and an Englishman.

[B]

That sounds like a really bad joke.

[A]

It does. The start of one. But this kind of love triangle led to one of the most infamous murders in British history. So that's out right now. Check it out. If you're a Patreon member. If you're not, it's a great time to sign up. We've got a lot of stuff out there.

[B]

We really do.

[A]

We also have a brand new episode out on True Crime all the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about the Jack family disappearance. The Jack family back in 1989 got into a vehicle driven by a stranger who offered them temporary jobs at a logging camp and in Canada's British Columbia Province. And then they disappeared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's a lot of mystery, and we get into all of it.

[B]

Hey, and if you haven't signed up for CrimeCon yet, get out there and do that. Come see us in Denver in September.

[A]

Yeah, use our promo code, tcat, to get something off your standard batch. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[B]

Well, after we do Patreon. Names. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, where we probably should do that. Ms. Luna. Jo.

[B]

Hey, Joe.

[A]

Candice Williams.

[B]

There's Candice.

[A]

Sophia Nicholson.

[B]

Hey, thanks. Sophia who?

[A]

On Patreon, you called either Jack's daughter, granddaughter or great granddaughter.

[B]

Yeah, I don't remember how old, Jack.

[A]

You weren't sure Exactly. Charlie Duff.

[B]

Hey, Charlie.

[A]

Mark Cameron.

[B]

Hey, thanks, Mark.

[A]

Diana Rinalti.

[B]

Oh, Rinalti. It sounds like a soccer player.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Vicki. Adolf.

[B]

Hey, Vicki.

[A]

Brett. Ford.

[B]

What's going on, Ford?

[A]

Lori jumped out of their highest level.

[B]

Look at Lori.

[A]

Amber. Tre.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's Tretin.

[A]

I like the way you say it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And last but not least, Jerry Taylor.

[B]

Thanks, Jerry.

[A]

And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Christopher.

[B]

Oh, hey, thanks.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Appreciate the new support, the continued support. We also had PayPal donations from Paul Miller.

[B]

Hey, Paul.

[A]

And Kim Long.

[B]

There's Kim.

[A]

So, thank you to everyone. Okay, now, are you ready, Gibbs?

[B]

Now I'm ready.

[A]

We're talking about Johnny Lewis. And this is a case that I've been wanting to do for a while because Johnny Lewis was an actor who played a part on one of my favorite shows of all time, Sons of Anarchy.

[B]

You did love that show.

[A]

Yeah. And I know it's a show you and you liked, too. I also find it fascinating that the guy who played the kind of deputy sheriff was Taylor Sheridan.

[B]

It's really strange, isn't it?

[A]

The guy who is now making what seems to be every show on television.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And they're all fantastic.

[B]

They really are. Maybe he learned something from doing that role. I don't know.

[A]

But in 2012, actor Johnny Lewis committed a murder and then fell to his death. So, you know, over 10 years later, it's about 13 years almost. This still is a very strange crime. And there are a lot of aspects to the case that remain unexplained. Jonathan Kendrick Lewis was born on October 29, 1983. He was just 28 years old when he died. Johnny grew up in the North Hollywood and Sherman Oaks neighborhoods of la. According to LA magazine, his family practiced Scientology, and his parents, Michael and Devona Lewis, attained the highest level within the religion, operating thetan.

[B]

Really? The highest level?

[A]

Yeah. Impressive in whatever you do.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

According to the writings of founder L. Ron Hubbard, an operating thetan is someone in a spiritual state who offers knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space, and time. Okay, let's break that down for a minute. I don't know a ton about Scientology, I'll be honest about that. But all of those things seem like they would be very advantageous to have. They would be, if you can, knowing and willingly kind of have some effect on life, thought, matter, energy, space and time.

[B]

Okay, sounds pretty powerful.

[A]

Johnny Lewis had been an actor since he was a child, and his mother started taking him to auditions when he was 6. He got his first role at age 7, a small part in an escalator safety video.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, everybody's got to start somewhere.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But he did a number of commercials. He even appeared in shows like 7th Heaven, Malcolm in the Middle, and Drake and Josh. And I remember Drake and Josh. Well, that was one of the shows, I think, on Nickelodeon that my kids just loved.

[B]

And that turned out to be the Drake the magician, right?

[A]

Did you say magician? I started to say that's a cross between a musician. I said a musician, a magician and a musician. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Turned out to be the rap star, right? No, no, I always thought it was.

[A]

I was. I mean, he's. He is a singer. I just thought Drake. No, that's not Drake the rapper.

[B]

It's not? No, I always thought it was.

[A]

This guy was white. Oh, you obviously have never seen Drake and Josh.

[B]

I thought. I have.

[A]

No, no. Drake was the one who came forward with the allegations against all the people at Nickelodeon.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

They had the big documentary where he had been abused.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't see that then. Yeah.

[A]

At the age of 18, Johnny moved to Hollywood and lived with other actors. And in his early 20s, he became a teen heartthrob with his reoccurring role as Dennis Chili childress on the OC which ended in 2006. I'll be honest with you, I never saw the OC didn't you? No, I think that was past my teen heartthrob age. Not that I was into teen heartthrobs ever, but you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, Definitely past my time.

[A]

Yeah, well, everything's past your time. I was not watching teen shows in 2006. I'd been married for 10 years by that point. That year, Johnny began dating famous singer Katy Perry. Their romance was short, but it allegedly inspired two of her songs. The One that Got Away and Circle the Dream and I don't know a lot of Katy Perry songs. I don't know either of those. I think the only one that I actually know is Paper Bag. It talks about feeling like a paper bag floating. Something. Something.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then she sing one like you're the tiger or the lion or something.

[A]

You are the tiger. Yeah, I have the tiger from Rocky. No, she did not sing that. Johnny appeared in more popular TV shows such as Bones, CSI and Criminal Minds. So, I mean, you'd have to say he was doing pretty well.

[B]

Sounds like it.

[A]

He also enjoyed writing poems, screenplays, and he started writing two novels. He was said to have been a very introspective person who often journaled his thoughts.

[B]

Well, there we have something in common.

[A]

I know you have a whole room of journals.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Which if they are ever found, most likely would be used as evidence against you.

[B]

Would not be good.

[A]

No, yeah. I, I picture like the movie Seven when they find his journals and the writing is so small, there's like 10,000 words on a page.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's hundreds and hundreds of these journals. They're going to be put into evidence.

[B]

They're stacked in that one room. So yeah.

[A]

Johnny Lewis's friend said that he wasn't a partier, he wasn't known to drink to excess or use drugs. And actor and friend Jonathan Tucker told LA magazine that's what made Johnny special. No drugs, no alcohol, just poetry and philosophy and let's face it, that would be pretty different, I think from a lot of celebrities, a lot of actors. I don't want to say they're all, you know, drinkers and take drugs, but you know, you get to out to La Gibbs and you know, a lot of people do kind of get hooked on that fast paced lifestyle which sometimes can include, you know, taking designer drugs and things like that.

[B]

I know, man, I try to keep a good eye on my son because, you know, he's been out there for almost two years now.

[A]

Yeah, I'm like, fortunately he doesn't have the kind of money that some of these people do exactly. To be able to afford those designer drugs. But you still keep an eye on him.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Johnny Lewis was most well known for his role in the show Sons of Anarchy. For two seasons he played the character Kip Half Sack Epps. A prospect hoping to become a full member of the motorcycle club. And we talked about it a little bit. Right. It is one of my favorite shows. So I have a number of shows, and I know I've talked about this on Patreon before, that I like to watch every year. Binge it. Binge the series all the way through. Well, Sons of Anarchy is one of the shows, you know, Breaking Bad, the Office. There's just a few of them that once a year I'll watch them all the way through. And obviously, I have watched Sons of Anarchy all the way through a number of times. I thought that this character, Half Sack, as he was known, was a really interesting role. Now, why did they call him Half Sack? Do you remember?

[B]

I don't.

[A]

He was in the military and lost one of his huevos.

[B]

That's why he was Half Sack. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And there at one point in the show, he talked about getting a replacement. I think he tried and got infected. But anyway, his character was killed off in the season two finale, which aired in 2009. So, again, there's spoilers here, but if you haven't seen Sons of Anarchy, Nat, by this point, I don't feel bad for giving certain things away.

[B]

Yeah, it's been out there for a long time.

[A]

Yeah, been out there. It's been off the air for a long time. But I did think, and I know a lot of other people did, too, it was shocking when he was killed off the show. Now, he was killed off in a very memorable way. The main lead, Jax's son, had been stolen by, I think, the ira. And in that process, Kip was trying to fight them off, and he got stabbed and killed. But show creator Kurt Sutter explained why he left the show, saying, Johnny wasn't happy creatively. He really wanted out of his contract. And I remember when that came out later, you're like, oh, okay, so that's why they killed him off, because he was a pretty popular character.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then the other thing you think about is you're on this hit show seen by millions every week, and all of a sudden you make the decision that, you know what? I don't want to be on this thing.

[B]

Well, obviously, the fame, money and all that wasn't his driving factor.

[A]

No, I think you're right. Because if it's all about that, you stay with it and you keep raking in those checks, and presumably the checks are going to keep getting bigger and bigger as the show goes on. Johnny's father, Michael Lewis, told LA Magazine, he told us he Left because the show was getting into gratuitous violence. He didn't want to communicate that as an artist. And you know, let's face it, the show is pretty violent.

[B]

It is. And obviously as an, as an actor, artist, that's your right. Right. If you don't want to be part of that, you know, you have to find a way to communicate that to the, to the writers and the, the director and see if you can get out of the show if you don't want to be part of it anymore.

[A]

Which seems like what he did. In April 2009, Johnny learned about a place called the Writer's Villa. A retreat for creatives. The Writer's villa was a 1927 Spanish style mansion owned by real estate broker and arts patron Catherine Davis. Kathy Davis brought many famous playwrights, screenwriters, novelists and actors to her home. She was known by the nickname Miss Kathy and was originally from Texas. She moved to California in 1950. She attended UCLA and worked in publishing before she married James Davis. Their daughter, author Margaret Leslie Davis, was born in 1958. The family purchased their mansion in the Los Felice neighborhood soon after. Kathy and her husband later divorced. After her daughter became an adult, Kathy started a new career as a real estate agent and offered her mansion as a temporary home for wealthy clients searching for houses. Seems like California would be a really great place to be a real estate agent.

[B]

Think so?

[A]

If you were good at it, yeah, you could make a boatload of money.

[B]

I mean, you sell 20 homes here a year, you still versus selling 20 out there. It's going to be big difference.

[A]

Yeah, the commissions are going to be a lot higher. Over time, the home became an extended stay retreat for up and coming performers, writers and directors. But it was more than a writing retreat. Some actors came to the mansion when they were going through a hard time emotionally and just needed a calming space. And it was said that tenants loved Cathy for her kindness and generosity. And her reputation grew through word of mouth. She charged tenants between 1,650 and $3,000 a month for a room with a private bath. People were willing and eager to pay so they could stay at the locally famous Writer's Villa. Okay. I mean, given prices in California, it's not outrageous. No, but you're only getting one room. I mean, with a bath.

[B]

I think that 1650 is pretty close to what my son pays for a studio, for a studio apartment.

[A]

But you're also surrounded by other people kind of like you, right? Creative type people. But I'm trying to think, okay, you know, this is a mansion. How many rooms does she have? She could have been pulling in quite a bit of money.

[B]

It could have been a little. Pretty good gig for her.

[A]

Yeah. Johnny Lewis contacted Kathy Davis and moved into a room in the house. And it was said he loved his time there. Johnny's friend, actress Bo Garrett, told LA Magazine, I hung out with him over there a few times. I remember all the nice things he said about her and how she opened her place to artists and eccentrics. Johnny moved out after two months. After leaving Sons of Anarchy, he was starting a new phase of his career. He didn't return to television. He appeared in some movies and short films, but he was mostly living off his money from Sons of Anarchy while working on a novel about a musical genius trying to make it in San Francisco. And I keep kind of coming back to this decision to leave a hit show. That cannot be an easy one to make.

[B]

No.

[A]

Because of the money. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think you have to make that decision and say, you know what? I care about who I am as a person more than I am about this job.

[A]

I just think it shows you that the violence in the depiction of violence was so important to him that he was willing to walk away.

[B]

Yeah. Which I think would be tough because out there you don't get a lot of chances. And that was a huge chance right there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's something that.

[A]

That's like an actor's dream.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. One you're going to be part of a good series that's going to be around for a while and then it's also probably the big stepping stone onto the next thing you do.

[A]

But I'm sure we'll talk about it more. It's pretty strange that he left the show over violence and then ends up committing a murder.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So we'll get into that more as we talk about the murder. In the summer of 2009, Johnny learned his girlfriend, actress Diane Marshall Green, was pregnant. He was excited to be a father, and their daughter, Culla Mae was born on April 16, 2010. Although they were no longer together, Johnny and Diane moved into an apartment to raise the baby. This arrangement was ultimately unsuccessful and Johnny moved out. A lengthy custody battle ensued. So I get it. Yeah. You meet someone, you fall in love, you have a baby and things don't work out. Yeah, but you have to figure out a way to be a co parent. People have to figure out ways to co parent. It sounded like they thought they could make a go at living together, parenting together, but not being a couple doing.

[B]

What they thought was best for the baby and probably finances and all that.

[A]

Yeah, but I think that would be pretty tough. And obviously it didn't work out. In late October 2011, Johnny got into a serious motorcycle accident. He was allowed to leave the hospital after he tested negative for a concussion. And we are talking about, you know, irony here a little bit. It is somewhat ironic that he got into this serious motorcycle accident after, you know, being on a show which featured a motorcycle gang and a lot of motorcycle riding.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Michael Lewis noticed that his son behaved erratically after the accident. He scheduled two MRIs, but Johnny refused to go. And Johnny's friends noticed the change in his behavior as well. For example, during an acting class in December 2011, his friend John Tucker heard him speak in a faint British accent. He asked Johnny about it, but he shrugged it off. Okay, I know you know, you do accents, but all the time you know you're doing them, you're doing it on purpose. Yeah, they're not always great or even good, but, you know, this almost makes it sound like he didn't even realize he was speaking in a British accent.

[B]

Almost like some of those people that have surgeries and they wake up after being under anesthesia and they, they sound like they're from a different country.

[A]

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[A]

2012, Johnny began to exhibit violent behavior and even racked up serious criminal charges. On January 3, 2012, Johnny was hanging out in the Northridge condo he purchased for his parents. His mother was cooking breakfast. He was still in his pajamas, but he said he was going for a walk. As he passed another unit, he thought he heard someone in distress and broke in. The condo was empty. Soon after, two men arrived and asked Johnny to leave and he attacked them with an empty Perrier bottle. He hit each man on the head with the bottle. A physical fight ensued and Johnny bit one of the men on the arm while attempting to flee. He was overpowered and detained until the police arrived. So I think we have to talk about it a little bit here. Gibbs, you have this picture of Johnny Lewis before the motorcycle accident. Poetry, creativity. He's dating Katy Perry. People seem to really like him. All of a sudden his family, his friends are noticing that his behavior has changed dramatically. He's becoming violent, but yet his dad's trying to go get him to do some MRIs and he won't do him.

[B]

But maybe there's, you know, some type of head injury that needs to be looked at.

[A]

Now as far as this incident goes, Johnny claimed it was self defense, but he was charged with trespassing, burglary and assault with a deadly weapon. Three days later he was sent to the psychiatric ward for a 72 hour hold. According to LA Magazine, when his father bailed him out, his discharge summary stated chief complaint blunt head trauma and suicidal.

[B]

It says a lot.

[A]

Yeah. And I think if you're Johnny's parents, you've got to be really concerned about this, right? You know there was a motorcycle accident, right? You have to be thinking some type of head trauma. Now you have it in writing. Blunt head trauma but also suicidal.

[B]

And that has to scare you.

[A]

Yeah, very much so. Johnny returned to his parents home in Northridge. His his sister Anna told LA magazine that he looked like a wounded, broken animal with two black eyes. He wouldn't let anyone near him. And he was highly sensitive to light. He turned off all the lights in the house and even disabled the fuse box. And, I mean, for anybody who's had a concussion, sensitivity to light is one of the symptoms.

[B]

Yeah, that's one.

[A]

Later that month, Johnny tried to end his life. By the end of January, though, he seemed a little more stable, and his father decided to let him go back to living on his own in Santa Monica. But on February 10, 2012, Johnny was arrested for punching a man outside a yogurt shop. He was held in custody with bail set at $20,000. On February 12, Johnny was charged with two misdemeanors. Assault and battery and resisting arrest. He pleaded no contest and was put on summary probation for three years. He was ordered to serve 12 days in the county jail and pay fines and restitution. And I just can't help but think, Gibbs, how different his life is going after this motorcycle accident. I mean, presumably, as far as we know, he wasn't doing any of these things before it. And now it's like, you know, he's getting in trouble all the time. You know, he's trying to. He's trying to end his life.

[B]

Well, no doubt this motorcycle accident has been impactful.

[A]

Yeah, it's hard not to think he was affected in some way. It's almost like, you know, he had his life before the motorcycle accident and then his life after it, and they are very different. Days later, after being charged with these misdemeanors, Johnny walked into the ocean fully clothed and was hospitalized for hypothermia. And the other thing that it does seem to me is that he's kind of like, crying out for help in a way. On February 18, Louis was arrested for trying to break into a woman's apartment in Santa Monica. He claimed he thought it was a friend's apartment. He was charged with entering a residence with intent to commit a felon, and his bail was set at $500,000. I think the other thing we're seeing is that his behavior and crimes are escalating.

[B]

Just sporadic, doing really strange things.

[A]

On February 24, Johnny was charged with two counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon stemming from the January 3rd incident. He didn't appear for two court dates. During the second court session, his public defender told the judge that he had had no contact with his client. His bail was sat at $100,000, and a warrant was issued for his arrest. But Johnny did show up for his third court date, and the warrant was vacated. On March 19, Johnny faced new charges related to the February 18 incident. He was charged with felony burglary and loitering in a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge. He didn't show up for his arraignment, and once again, a warrant was issued for his arrest. His bail was set at $250,000.

[B]

He's really just stuck in a bad cycle, isn't he?

[A]

Yeah. Johnny failed to appear for multiple hearings. When he did show up, his bail was lowered to 150. On March 27, Johnny was taken into custody for the January 3 incident. He pleaded not guilty to two counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon and remained in custody pending trial. On April 12, Lewis was sent to jail for the February 18 incident.

[B]

He's got so much activity going on.

[A]

Well, and these are not nickel and dime. Thanks. I mean, these are felonies. In May 2012, a court ordered Johnny's conditional release to Ridgeview Ranch in Altadena, a secure treatment center that specializes in mental health, drug and alcohol related issues. Johnny's lawyer had been trying to persuade courts to allow him to stay in a treatment center rather than serving jail time. However, Johnny didn't appear to be struggling with addiction. Tim Woodhead, a former inmate who befriended Johnny, said, I did a lot of drug seeking in that place. There were a lot of opportunities that he turned down multiple times. And that kind of goes back to what friends said about him. You know, he wasn't a partier, wasn't a big drinker. You know, he wasn't into drugs. Now, you would think if you're going to start taking drugs, maybe prison would be the place if you could score him. But. Or jail.

[B]

You can score them there.

[A]

But even then, he was turning them down.

[B]

Yeah. I really feel this is geared more towards his injury.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And something going on with his mental health. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Doctors prescribed Lewis drugs to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, but he was resistant to taking medication. And it's thought that he may have pretended to swallow the pillow only to spit them out later. And, you know, that would be sad if that's what happened.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, if in your mind you're thinking, hey, I don't have these things that they say I have. I'm not taking this medication. But you really do suffer from some of these. Okay. You're not getting the help that these people think they're giving you.

[B]

No, no. And if you would take the medicine, you probably be in a better Place.

[A]

In May 2012, Johnny's friend Jonathan Tucker picked him up for a court appearance. Tucker recalled to LA magazine, it was another person completely. He had a look I've only seen in disturbed veterans of war. His memory was scattered. He vacillated between basic lucid conversation and incoherence. Here's a guy that's known him a long time, knew him before the accident. He's in a great position, just like Johnny's family would be, to see the stark difference in him now versus prior to the accident. Johnny's father said he did not receive a clear diagnosis. They didn't know if he was experiencing psychosis, bipolar disorder, or had a traumatic brain injury. Michael Lewis told LA magazine, we got the motorcycle head injury. Then he's beaten in the head 17 times. And apparently this was during the Northridge break in. Then when he's in jail, he's pounding his own head against the concrete and attempting to leap from the second story pier. Then you have the doctor's own diagnosis of brain trauma. And that's just the stuff we know about.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

It is a lot.

[A]

And the other thing I think we have to point out is, you know, once you suffer from a serious head injury, you know, let's say a concussion or something like that, it's known that you're much more likely to experience it again. Right. And if he's being hit in the head and all these things, we don't know how many different concussions or traumatic brain injuries he suffered.

[B]

We just know it's not good.

[A]

No, it's not good at all. Louisiana Magazine spoke to Christopher Giza, M.D. a pediatric neurologist and neuroscientist at the UCLA Brain Injury Research Center. He explained some areas of the brain are particularly prone to traumatic brain injury. If you have an injury in the frontal lobes, you can have significant changes in behavior, irritability, impulse control problems, and at the extreme end, violent outbursts. And, you know, you and I have talked about this to some degree on true crime all the time, for many years. You know, go back to some of the serial killers that we've profiled who have had what is thought to have been, you know, traumatic head injury. And the question has always been, what role, if any, did that play and what they ultimately did. And here you have a guy saying that, hey, if you got an injury to the frontal lobe, you could experience violent outbursts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the severe side, however, Dr. Giza said that the symptoms Louis Father described after the 2011 accident was are indicative of a mild injury such as a concussion, which wouldn't trigger aggressive behavior. As reported by the Hollywood Reporter, Johnny was arrested on May 23rd for failure to appear and was ordered to complete 30 days of rehab. After completing treatment, he would be put on probation and he was transported to Ridgeview that day. And I think I would be hypocritical if I didn't point out that it seems like, you know, he might be getting off a little easy here for some of these felonies. Now, is it because of some of the diagnosis around mental health issues or is it because, you know, he was this actor? I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, kind of leaning towards the diagnosis.

[A]

Yeah, I mean he was ordered to complete 30 days of rehab, but then he's going to be on probation. So I, I don't know. We know celebrities can sometimes be given more leniency than regular people, but I don't know if that was the case here or not. Based on the information presented by LA magazine, it seems like Johnny was not happy to be at Ridgeview, but his family thought it was better than staying in jail. Okay, I don't know that there's not anything that's better than staying in jail.

[B]

Yeah, I would try to avoid jail at all costs.

[A]

Yes, I've seen some of those shows 60 days in or whatever they are. There's some stuff that goes down there that I don't want to be a part of.

[B]

There definitely is some stuff you don't want to be part of.

[A]

On June 12, 2012, Johnny sent an email to a few friends who later shared it with his father. He wrote, per LA magazine, the core of the story is that I was involved in a fight. My actions were self defense, but my means were a glass bottle. After a few court dates, a Stanton county jail and the realization that there is no self defense law in California, I'm back on my feet and doing well. The court case is still ongoing, but from what we're hearing, it has every good chance of getting dropped outright or disappearing with time served. He wrote at the end of the email. On a side note, we are pleading rehab to avoid trial. Addicted to marijuana. What a trip. So there's a couple of things here. First of all, the email is very well written. It seems lucid, it seems coherent. Now he obviously is implying that the pleading of rehab is made up. He's not addicted to marijuana.

[B]

He's definitely tried to put his spin on it. Right. I don't think he feels with what's going on as everybody else does.

[A]

No, I would agree with that. And how many people in this situation wouldn't try to put their own spin on it? Right. When you're writing to friends, family, are you going to tell them everything? Are you going to spin it a little bit? I think case in point, when the doctors are telling him that he might be suffering from this, this and this, they give him medication, he says, no, I'm not taking that. According to Michael Lewis, Johnny's claims of being addicted to marijuana didn't fly with counselors. So he switched and pretended to be addicted to alcohol. At that point, he said they started to believe him.

[B]

Probably a more believable addiction.

[A]

Well, more people get addicted to alcohol, I believe, than get addicted to marijuana. Johnny's mental state seemed to improve after a few months at the rehab facility. In one of his final journal entries from July 2012, he wrote, felt more whole today, more complete. Like parts of myself had been stolen in my sleep and scattered all over the world and, and now they've begun to return. I'm more determined than ever now. I'll face what I am, I'll face what I was. I mean if you just judged him from his writings, you would think, okay, he's doing better.

[B]

Yeah, or he's doing okay if you can believe him.

[A]

If you believe him. That's the thing. Meanwhile, Johnny's lawyer was trying to get a deal where he would spend a whole year at Ridgeview instead of spending it in jail. Johnny believed his case would be dropped because of his self defense argument. So he fired his lawyer and chose to act as his own attorney. He thought he'd spend a few days in jail before he was released.

[B]

Well, clearly he feels like he can do better than his attorney at that time and we know some people feel that way. I don't think it's wise, but people will do what they want to do.

[A]

Well, he has the right to do it for sure. My question is, is this a little bit of delusional thinking?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I can do this on my own. My case is going to be dropped. I'm just going to spend a few nights in jail and that'll be the end of it.

[B]

Yeah, no big deal.

[A]

It's no big deal. On August 8, 2012, Johnny appeared in court representing himself. He withdrew his not guilty plea and pleaded no contest to one count of felony assault with a deadly weapon. He was sentenced to three years formal probation and 365 days in the county jail, plus restitution and fines.

[B]

Wonder if he was expecting that outcome.

[A]

Well, that's a year in jail. That's a lot more than a few days. On Aug. 17, Johnny pleaded no contest the felony attempted burglary and was sentenced to another 291 days in jail plus fines and restitution.

[B]

Stacking up.

[A]

It's almost two years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Probation officials expressed concern about Johnny's mental health and the possibility of him being a danger to others. According to USA Today, a probation officer who evaluated Johnny's case after he attempted to break into a woman's home wrote that he was very concerned for the well being of not only the community but that of the defendant. The report noted that Johnny suffered from some form of chemical dependency, mental health issues and was transient. It stated, given this, Lewis will continue to be a threat to any community he may reside.

[B]

That's a pretty serious statement.

[A]

So then it makes it even more perplexing when just six weeks later on September 21, 2012, Johnny was released from jail. Apparently the jail was overcrowded and he was given hundreds of days credit for time served in good behavior as reported by People.

[B]

Pretty lucky.

[A]

Yeah, I know California has experienced a lot of overcrowding but that's a lot of credit for good behavior and time served and all that. Two years down to six weeks.

[B]

And is that really good for him? Is that really good for the community?

[A]

Well, according to this probation officer, no, it's not. That night he checked into the Los Feliz Hotel in atwater Village. On September 23rd, Johnny's father took him shopping for new clothes and took him to pick up his motorcycle. Johnny asked his dad to contact Kathy Davis at the writers villa to see if there was a room available. Cathy agreed to take him and even promised Johnny could stay in his former room. Michael Lewis hoped the calming influence of the writers villa would help his son. He told LA magazine it didn't occur to me to say oh by the way, he was having problems. I thought this is a place he was familiar with and they will give him a lot of love.

[B]

Yeah, I think he's hoping like well my son goes here, this will ground him. This will be something that he feels safe and maybe he can reconnect with himself.

[A]

Yeah, I think Johnny told him he planned to stay there and pull himself together. But you can also hear his dad saying what I'm sure is after the fact of the tragedy that is about to occur, he didn't even think to tell them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of the, the issues that he was having. You know folks, for most of my life, Banks have been pretty much all the same, sometimes a little stuffy. You know, they have their fees, but Chime is changing the way people bank. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees and their app is amazing. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and allows you to get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. You can also earn up to 3.5% APY on savings. That's eight times higher than a traditional bank and they're rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. If you need to talk to someone, you're going to get a real human 24. 7 this is the way that banking should have been all along, and my younger self really would have benefited from Chime. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comtcat that is chime.comtcatt Chime.

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[A]

Weight loss is hard and aside from people being judgmental, many people say it's just a matter of willpower, which is not true. Your doctor may not know much about weight loss or GLP1 medications and if you manage to get weight loss medications, it will be expensive. Mochi Health is out to fix all that. They'll match you with a doctor who is an expert in weight loss. Someone who has access to state licensed pharmacies that provide weight loss medications at an affordable price and knows how to be empathetic. You have unlimited access to your doctor and unlimited visits with a nutritionist dietitian. And it works. On average, Mochi members lose 36 pounds in their first year. All told, over 100,000 Mochi members have lost over 4 million pounds. They have over 12,000 reviews on Trustpilot and a rating of excellence. It's so easy to get started. Go to joinmochi.com and take a two minute questionnaire to see if weight loss medications may be right for you. Get signed up, choose a doctor and schedule the telehealth appointment for a time and place that's convenient for you. You and your doctor will then craft a personalized weight loss plan and any medications would be delivered directly to your door. Just think about it. Three minutes from now you could be set with an appointment and on your way to a weight loss journey. That that works. Go to joinmochi.com that's J-O I N M O C H-I.com Johnny moved in on Monday, September 24, 2012. Michael called him on the 25th to check on him. He was agitated, telling his dad, I'm busy. What do you want? Johnny eventually calmed down and told his dad they would talk later, but this was their last conversation. On September 26, 2012, Johnny was walking in the neighborhood and approached Kathy Davis neighbor Dan Blackburn, a former NBC newsman. Johnny introduced himself and said, hi, I'm John, your new neighbor. Blackburn described Johnny as bedraggled. For the past 15 minutes he had watched as Johnny, who was wearing just jeans and red shoes, paced up and down the sidewalk. He was covered in sweat by the time he got to the door.

[B]

Bedraggled?

[A]

I don't even know if I've ever heard of that description before, blackburn replied. Nice to meet you, John. They stood across from each other for a moment before John walked away abruptly. Blackburn went back to his morning routine, not thinking too much of this unusual interaction. That morning, a painter who was asked to remain anonymous was working on the deck of the Blackburn home, which overlooked the writers villa. About 30 minutes later, Blackburn heard his wife Gloria calling for him. He ran outside and found Johnny on top of the painter, beating him with his fist. The painter was covered in blood. Blackburn stepped in, grabbing Johnny by the shoulder and shouting at him to stop. Johnny jumped to his feet and hit Blackburn in the eye, causing him to fall to the ground. Blackburn, his wife and the painter struggled with Johnny. He had what felt like superhuman strength and didn't seem to feel any pain. He didn't flinch when Blackburn punched him in the temple.

[B]

That's shocking.

[A]

Yeah. This Blackburn guy told the Hollywood Reporter that it was like hitting him with a flash splice water like a love tap. Yeah, he just kept on going. Blackburn then hit Johnny with a chair, which stunned him enough for the three to flee into the house. But when they tried to shut the front door, Johnny stuck his arm through the opening. They pushed their Combined weight on the door, slamming it four times until Johnny withdrew his arm. They barricaded themselves inside and called the police. All right. This is a very scary situation.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

Now, Johnny Lewis was not a big guy.

[B]

No, he was not.

[A]

He was in good shape. You know, on the show Sons of Anarchy, he played a fighter, but, you know, it wasn't like he was this big, hulking guy. He wasn't Jack Reacher. He was a little wiry guy, but he might have been strong. But when somebody says it was like this guy had superhuman strength, I mean, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

[B]

You say, what was he on?

[A]

Yeah, he's on something, right? He's got to be. So these three people were lucky enough to get away from him. They barricaded themselves inside the house. From the window, Blackburn saw Johnny leap over their fence around the deck and jump on the wooden fence surrounding Catherine Davis's house. He disappeared into the villa. The police responded within minutes and found Johnny's body in the middle of the driveway. His eye socket was caved in and his skull was cracked. Authorities later determined he fell from the patio or the roof, which was 15ft above the ground. He died instantly.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So police got there pretty quickly, as you can imagine. They would, yeah, right after getting the call. I mean, the scene that they find is pretty gruesome. You know, here's this young man who they determine, you know, jumped off of a 15 foot roof or balcony. Whichever one it was died instantly, and he's got some pretty horrific injuries. But it was about to get worse. The police entered the house. The first floor was perfectly clean with nothing disturbed. On the second floor, investigators had to step over broken glass before they entered a large bedroom in the southwest corner of the house where Johnny was staying. Inside was a rusty hammer with blood on it. Officers followed what they've called a trail of destruction to the attached bedroom, and they found a dead cat in the shower. It was covered in blood and its skull was bashed in. Investigators later determined Johnny most likely killed the cat with his bare hand.

[B]

Oh, it's so sick. It is.

[A]

And we know, you know how much our listeners love their animals, their dogs, their cats. So that type of stuff is very hard to talk about, as are murders, but, you know, dogs and cats, for the most part, Gibbs, they're completely defenseless.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[A]

Kathy Davis's bedroom was across the hall. There was blood on her bed, frame, wall, table and chair. Her body was on the floor next to her bed. She had been beaten and strangled to death. According to the official coroner's report, blunt force trauma fractured her entire skull and obliterated the left side of her face, leaving her brain exposed. Brain and tissue matter seen on the floor around her. Her face is covered in blood, her nose is split down the middle, and her upper jaw is split open.

[B]

Oh, that's horrific.

[A]

Yeah. Go back to what we said about Kathy Davis. I mean, this is a woman who by all accounts was loved by, you know, everyone who met her. Yeah. She seemingly went out of her way to help people. Now she was getting money for renting out her rooms, but it was said she was a various generous person who looked after people. And. And to describe her murder in this fashion, I mean, it's gruesome, you know.

[B]

And to think that she just allowed Johnny back in. You know, she was kind, like, let Johnny come back in. Not only did she let Johnny come back in, she made sure Johnny had his old room back.

[A]

Kathy also had four small puncture rooms on her left cheek, presumably from a mechanical pencil found beside her body. I mean, I don't even know how to comprehend all of the different wounds. I mean, obviously she was beaten with something. Yeah, in a very ferocious way.

[B]

Rusty hammer.

[A]

Yeah, most likely the rusty hammer. But to take a mechanical pencil and stab somebody in the face with it four times. I mean, why? What are you accomplishing with that?

[B]

Unless there's some symbolic thing for the killer to do that.

[A]

Investigators believe that minutes after Johnny introduced himself to neighbor Dan Blackburn, he had a confrontation with Kathy Davis in her room. No one knows exactly what happened, but one rumor is that Johnny turned off the electricity the night before, and Cathy confronted him and gave him a warning not to do it again. Johnny then punched her and strangled her with his bare hands. And I think, Gibbs, this rumor kind of goes back to him and his sensitivity to light. We mentioned it before. He would turn off the fuse box, and it's thought that that's kind of exactly what happened. And once she said, hey, you can't do that, he lost it. According to LA magazine, it was unclear if he used the hammer to kill her, but the beating was so severe, investigators believed he may have stomped on her skull.

[B]

Wow. So brutal.

[A]

He then killed the cat, went outside and attacked the painter. When he fled back to the mansion, he ascended to the upper patio or the roof. It's unknown if he jumped or fell, but investigators believed his death was accidental.

[B]

Yeah, I'm kind of thinking he fell.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how they can Determine that. I think you could also make some valid points for him taking his life at that point, realizing what he had done and what was going to happen to him. But as you can imagine, the story spread quickly and many celebrities reacted to the tragedy on social media. A source told People, I'm shocked by this. He was always pretty quiet. The only times I saw him angry is with regards to. To his character on the show. I know at the end he got really annoyed with the storyline. He felt like his character was becoming a weekly joke and he didn't like it. Sons of Anarchy creator Kurt Sutter wrote on his website, per People. It was a tragic end for an extremely talented guy who unfortunately had lost his way. I wish I could say that I was shocked by the events last night, but I was not. I am deeply sorry that an innocent life had to be thrown into his destructive path.

[B]

So he's being pretty honest, right? He's saying he's not shocked, but why.

[A]

Is he not shocked? I mean, had he seen some of Johnny's behaviors afterwards? Because the motorcycle accident happened after the show ended, right?

[B]

It did.

[A]

Or his. His time on the show ended. So I'm. There wasn't a lot of context around it. But I'm curious as to why he said he was not shocked.

[B]

And he talks about this destructive path that he was on.

[A]

So he must have either seen some of it or just learned about it through family, friends, whatever. At a press conference the following day, an LAPD representative said there was an altercation between Lewis and Davis, but did not provide further details at that time. Authorities said no one else was in the house at the time of the murder, and Johnny was believed to be the only suspect.

[B]

Thank goodness there was nobody else at the house because I don't know if it would have turned out well for them.

[A]

No, I don't think he would have stopped with just Kathy Davis. I think him attacking the painter is kind of proof of that. The police couldn't confirm if drugs or alcohol played a part in the murder. An LAPD spokesman said at the time. It's a terrible tragedy as far as we're concerned, and we're digging into the bottom of it. After the news came out, one theory was that Johnny was on bath salts, a designer drug that normally contains an amphetamine like chemical called mdpv.

[B]

If that was the case, that could help explain why he was acting the way he was acting.

[A]

Well, if you remember, a lot of the things that happened around that time were blamed on basalts. Even LA magazine reported that the drug was reportedly the cause behind several attacks around the country, including the Florida cannibal incident. And I believe that might be the one where the guy tried to eat the other guy's face off.

[B]

Yes, I think you're right.

[A]

The New York Daily News proposed the possibility of another designer drug called Smiles that was linked to a series of suicides and overdoses. That one I am not familiar with. Never heard of it.

[B]

No.

[A]

No. But I'm sure there's a lot of designer drugs I've never heard of.

[B]

Yeah, I think you stay pretty clear of those things.

[A]

Of all drugs, especially designer drugs, because those cost a lot. I'm assuming Johnny's former attorney, Jonathan Mandel, spoke out after his death. He told E. News, I did recommend in both of his cases that. That he get a treatment option. He clearly had delusions. And, you know, I do go back to that. Him firing his attorney. We talked about it. Right. His attorney was going down the path of trying to get him treatment instead of jail time. Obviously, Johnny Lewis didn't want that, didn't think he needed that or something along those lines because he fired his attorney and represented himself. Now, for some strange reason, it seemed to work out pretty well for him. Even though he got sentenced to almost two years, he did, like, six weeks in jail.

[B]

Yeah, he got lucky because of the overcrowded prisons.

[A]

Mandel was not specific about Johnny's alleged delusions, but added that he declined to seek professional help. He said he didn't know the cause of Johnny's psychosis. Johnny's autopsy report was released on November 29, 2012. The public was shocked to learn that he didn't have any drugs or alcohol in his system at the time of his death. Not even his prescribed antipsychotic medication.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Well, I think the drugs and alcohol is shocking because you're eliminating that as the reason for this unbelievably violent outburst.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But is it shocking that his prescribed antipsychotic medication was not in his system? Because to me, that could have played a part in why he did what he did.

[B]

Yeah, it could have stopped him if he took prescribed medicine.

[A]

Right, Right. But he's not taking it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he had a history of that. As we went through the report, noted that Lewis had nail marks on both sides of his neck and suffered partial strangulation. And I thought that was very strange. Almost as if he tried to strangle himself or someone else did. Maybe Kathy tried to put up a fight and grabbed him by the neck, maybe.

[B]

Or when he was fighting the neighbors.

[A]

Yeah, there wasn't a lot about it. His death was ruled accidental because there was no evidence Johnny was pushed or attempted to kill himself. So, Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, it's over a decade later, but there still are a lot of questions about this one. The main one being what caused Johnny Lewis's violent behavior that day. According to the reporting by LA magazine, his family believes he suffered a traumatic brain injury that affected his behavior.

[B]

That's kind of where I lean, because if there was no drugs in his system at the time of his death, it makes me feel like there probably had to be something wrong with his brain.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I. I lean that way just because of the. The stark contrast of what we know about his life before the motorcycle accident and after. Yeah, I mean, it seems to be night and day to me, and I don't know what else would have caused that. If he's not on drugs, then it's got to be some type of brain injury resulting from the motorcycle accident. If there was no motorcycle accident, then, you know, you'd maybe be thinking other types of mental health issues, and maybe some of those did develop, but were also brought on by the motorcycle accident.

[B]

I wonder if the family chose not.

[A]

To have science look into his brain and like some of the athletes have done.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Where they've, you know, dissected the brain and can tell that, you know, yes, they suffered from CTE or this or that. I think as a family, that's a tough decision to make. But, you know, another question that remains is could the murder of a beloved community member have been avoided? And if so, what measures could have been taken to keep Johnny Lewis in the community safe? And I think that all goes back to, you know, someone making that report saying, this guy's dangerous. He's dangerous to anyone in any community where he resides. Yeah, I think that's what the person said. I think he did, and he turned out to be pretty prophetic with that. But I think you have to look at it a couple different ways. You know, his attorney really thought he needed treatment, and I believe that was correct, but Johnny wasn't having it. So much so that he fired the guy.

[B]

If you're not going to take the treatment and if you're not going to take your medication, things aren't going to go well.

[A]

No. But could someone have stepped in and forced him into a treatment situation where they made sure that you took your meds? Right. There are some that do, yeah. And I think that's a question that some people have, you know, Was he let down in that area? I'm not trying to make excuses for him because what he did was horrible, but you have to look at all the factors.

[B]

I mean, you can say he was let down, and because of that, we ended up having the tragedy that we had in Kathy.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and you could see how he spiraled. Right. Felony. Maybe a little bigger felony. And then it just kept going and going until it ultimately, you know, culminated in the murder of this beloved woman. But it's just. It's a tragedy all the way around. I don't think this guy, you know, was in the same vein of a serial killer, but could he have had some of the same issues that we've seen in serial killers in some of our episodes? You know, his maybe just happened later in life, you know? This damage to the frontal lobe, did it cause him to become violent? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how else you explain it, Gibbs.

[B]

I don't either. It's such a big shift from how he was before the motorcycle accident to after.

[A]

Yeah, it's like two different lives.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, he had this life before, and then he had a much different life after the accident. But, you know, it's. It's a fascinating case. It's tragic and all that. But then you have the tie in with this. This show.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

A show that I happen to love. So I knew it was a case that. That I wanted to do. But that's it for our episode on Johnny Lewis. We got some voicemails. Gibbs, you want to check those out?

[B]

Let's hear them.

[E]

Hi, Mike and Gibby.

[F]

I can't believe this is my first time calling your voicemail because I have been listening to you guys for over a year, through so many different jobs. Working at Amazon 10 hours a day on my way to work, at the preschool that I work in now, I'm always listening to you guys. And first off, I just wanted to say maybe. Could you guys please say happy birthday? Nee Ray. Because it was my birthday, and I didn't really get to have a birthday party because I spent all my money on music, and it's my first time moving out alone. I just turned 22. I was just wondering if you could say happy birthday. I'm probably the biggest fan you could.

[E]

Ever have in your entire life.

[F]

I love you guys. You're so hilarious. I love the way you talk about your families and your daughters, because I didn't really get to have that growing up. And I hope that your family just knows how lucky they Are to have you. God bless y'.

[A]

All.

[F]

Keep your own time ticking and I will be listening to you for the rest of my day. Okay. Oh, also, I'm from Seattle, so.

[A]

Mire. Yeah, is that what you heard, Murray? Mire.

[B]

I did.

[A]

From Seattle.

[B]

From Seattle.

[A]

Reminded me so much of my daughters. She's right in between their two ages at 22. So obviously we are going to say Happy birthday to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Happy birthday. And Gibby is going to sing a song.

[B]

I am. I'm going to sing Happy Birthday to you after this. Commercial break.

[A]

Happy birthday, Happy birthday Happy, happy birthday to you that's pretty good.

[B]

Givvy.

[E]

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Emily from Washington. I just listened to your episode William Leslie Arnold, and it was a really interesting one. But one of the things that stuck out to me was y' all surprise around there being a prison newspaper. And I work in prison programming. And so I thought, oh, maybe I will tickle your brain even more with other programs. Or maybe you've heard about them all before anyway. But at least in Washington we have a whole bunch of dog programs. So some of them get trained inside and then they get adopted out into the community or others are trained for like service animals are like worth Something like 50 or $60,000. It's pretty incredible. But then there's also things like beekeeping and caring for federally endangered species. They have turtles. They have, I think I just said butterflies. They've had frogs in the past and they have a whole bunch of really cool programs. And I know some people might think you should just lock them up and throw away the key, but in reality just keeps everyone safer, including the people who work in prisons and the people who live there. And something like 98% of them are going to come back to the community anyway. So I think it's definitely worth the investment and you can see how much it makes a real big difference. So anyway, I just wanted to share some of that with you. And there's so many other programs out.

[F]

There too, but those are just a.

[E]

Really quick, you know, 60 second cap of them. So thanks, team, both of y', all, and keep your own time. Ticket. Thanks. Bye.

[B]

Hey, Bruno, what you doing today? Hey, you know what, Chuck? I'm going out. I'm going to work with some butterflies today. You know, caterpillars, you know, it's a good time, beekeeping.

[A]

Now, I, I know there are a lot of different programs in prison. I guess I didn't know there were some of those. The dog training one we've heard about because we actually had that in a couple of episodes.

[B]

We did.

[A]

But I don't know why I was so surprised that there was a. A prison newspaper.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[A]

Because I. I don't know what you're reading in there. Maybe you're getting the sports scores or. I don't. I have no idea.

[B]

I mean, obviously, it's. It's good to keep prisoners busy.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. I don't have a problem with that.

[B]

Sets and things like that.

[A]

I think it's all good. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[C]

Sa.