Kelsey Berreth

Summary

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True Crime All The Time – Episode 496: The Murder of Kelsey Berreth

Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Date: May 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the shocking murder of Kelsey Berreth, a young Colorado mother who vanished over Thanksgiving 2018. Hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (aka “Gibby”) walk listeners through the crime's timeline, the complex love triangle at its center, the investigation that followed, and the courtroom drama that finally brought Kelsey justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Relationships (04:16 – 08:55)

• Kelsey's Early Life: Born in 1989, raised in Moses Lake, WA, Kelsey became a flight instructor.
• Meeting Patrick Frazee: In 2016, Kelsey meets Patrick, a Colorado rancher, via online dating. Despite the long distance, she relocates to Colorado, where she becomes engaged to Patrick and has a daughter, Kaylee.
• Strained Relationship: Kelsey and Patrick never cohabitate. Kelsey juggles single motherhood and work. Friends note Patrick’s lack of emotional support and possible emotional abuse.
  • “Ashley Cogburn told 48 Hours that it appeared to her that Patrick was emotionally abusive. And it seemed like he was just knocking her spirit down.” (08:40)

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2. Kelsey’s Disappearance (09:12 – 14:30)

• Last Seen: Kelsey is last seen on surveillance at Safeway with her daughter at 12:27pm on Thanksgiving Day, Nov 22, 2018.
• Communication Gaps: After several days without contact, her mother, Cheryl, reports her missing on Dec 2.
• Patrick’s Story: Claims Kelsey broke up with him and left town voluntarily, but this is inconsistent with her actions and communication with her mother.
  • “When the police spoke to Patrick, he claimed that Kelsey broke up with him the day before Thanksgiving… They agreed to split custody... But some of these things are interesting, because some of this can be disproved if you’re not being truthful.” (10:57)

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3. The Investigation and Clues (12:08 – 18:26)

• Suspicious Details at Kelsey’s Home: Her bathroom mat is missing, fridge looks freshly wiped, and blood is found on the toilet base—later confirmed as Kelsey’s.
• Digital Evidence: The phones of Patrick and Kelsey move together after her disappearance. Texts sent from Kelsey’s phone post-disappearance look staged. Her phone later pings in Idaho.
  • “Investigators came to believe that Patrick faked 19 calls over Thanksgiving weekend and was sending texts between himself and Kelsey...” (15:52)
• Timeline Reconstruction: Surveillance shows Patrick making multiple visits to Kelsey’s townhouse. He’s seen alone after her return from the store.

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4. The Other Woman: Crystal Lee Kinney (21:49 – 26:14)

• Crystal’s Background: An on-again/off-again lover since 2006, Crystal is a nurse from Idaho with deep rodeo roots.
• Initial Lies: When first approached by the FBI, Crystal denies knowing Patrick or Kelsey, but records quickly unmask these lies.
  • “The problem was they already had all the records and they knew that she was lying about everything.” (25:48)
• Murder Solicitation: A tip from her friend, Michelle Stein, reveals that Patrick had tried to recruit Crystal to “take care of his baby mama.”
  • Michelle: “Yeah, he asked me if I would kill the mother of his baby.” (26:46)

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5. The Murder Plot: Three Attempts (30:17 – 36:14)

• Patrick’s Requests:
  • Attempt 1: Poison Kelsey’s Starbucks drink with Ambien and Valium.
    • “To me, even telling Patrick what drugs you would use is… you’re really crossing the line.” (31:18)
  • Attempt 2: Attack with a metal pipe at Kelsey’s home.
  • Attempt 3: Hide with a baseball bat and attack her outside the home —abandoned when Crystal gets spooked by a police car.
• Each time, Crystal backs out but her deep involvement grows.

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6. The Murder and Cover-up (36:35 – 41:42)

• Kelsey’s Murder: Patrick lures Kelsey under the guise of a candle-scent game, blindfolds her, and kills her with a baseball bat. Their daughter is in another room.
  • “He then beat her to death with a baseball bat while their daughter was in another room.” (38:11)
• Crystal’s Cleanup: Crystal drives from Idaho to clean the scene, finds blood and a tooth, and helps dispose of evidence.
• Body Disposal: Patrick puts Kelsey’s body in a plastic tote, burns it with other evidence in a ranch trough, and destroys her phone.
  • “Crystal confessed that they burned the tote and other pieces of evidence at the ranch… Crystal also admitted to getting rid of the gun, throwing Kelsey's keys into a canyon, and destroying her phone.” (38:43)

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7. The Arrest and Prosecution (41:42 – 56:38)

• Multiple Charges: Patrick is arrested on Dec 21, 2018 for first-degree murder and three counts of solicitation.
• Crystal’s Plea Deal: She pleads guilty to evidence tampering in exchange for her cooperation, later serving only 18 months after appeal.
  • “DA Dan May told reporters… ‘We did a deal with the devil. There’s no if, ands, or buts about that, and I’m not proud of that. But there’s no question that Kelsey wouldn’t have had the sure justice today without making that deal with the devil.’” (55:18)
• Trial Evidence: No body or weapon is recovered, but surveillance, digital forensics, Crystal’s testimony, and forensic evidence including a human female tooth, help seal the case.
  • “Patrick’s friend Joseph Moore testified that several months before Kelsey went missing, Patrick said the phrase ‘No body, no crime.’ Moore told him, ‘Patrick, get that out of your head.’” (44:04, 44:21)
• Jailhouse Informant Testifies: A surprise witness introduces evidence that Patrick created a hit list of those involved in the prosecution.
  • “He wanted the inmate to use his gang connections to have certain witnesses killed... In total, there were 16 notes. One of those names was Crystal Kinney.” (52:00)

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8. Verdict and Aftermath (54:29 – End)

• Conviction: Patrick is sentenced to life without parole plus 156 years (54:29).
• Crystal’s Reduced Sentence: Despite maximum three-year sentencing for evidence tampering, an appeal reduces her sentence to 18 months (56:38).
• Legacy: Kelsey’s body and the murder weapon have never been found. Her daughter is raised by family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I did not make the right decisions.” – Crystal Lee Kinney on the stand (45:56)
• “Did you get it done?” – Patrick, after Crystal cleaned up the house. Crystal: “I did the best I could do.” (47:59)
• “He said Kelsey's last words were, ‘Please stop.’ That’s heartbreaking.” – Mike Ferguson (49:23)
• “We did a deal with the devil. There’s no if, ands, or buts about that...” – DA Dan May (55:18)

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 04:16 | Introduction of Kelsey Berreth and Patrick Frazee’s relationship | | 09:12 | Last sighting of Kelsey at Safeway on Thanksgiving | | 12:25 | Discovery of blood evidence in Kelsey’s home | | 15:52 | Digital forensics reveal Patrick faked texts and calls | | 21:49 | Introduction of Crystal Lee Kinney | | 26:46 | Revelation of murder-for-hire attempts | | 31:17 | Discussion of Crystal’s near-miss poison plot | | 38:11 | Crystal cleans up after the murder, confirms body disposal | | 41:42 | Patrick is arrested, multiple charges filed | | 45:56 | Crystal’s court testimony (“I did not make the right decisions.”) | | 52:00 | Jailhouse informant testifies about Patrick’s hit list | | 54:29 | Patrick’s life sentence delivered | | 56:38 | Crystal’s sentence reduced on appeal |

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Tone and Style

The hosts blend seriousness with occasional levity. While the subject is tragic, Mike and Gibby’s conversations lighten the mood when it’s appropriate but never at the victim’s expense. They repeatedly express empathy for Kelsey’s family and daughter and incredulity at Patrick’s audacity and Crystal’s complicity.

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Final Reflections

• Themes: The case is a chilling example of domestic violence, manipulation, and the lengths some will go to in order to keep or gain custody of a child.
• Critique of Plea Deals: While the plea deal with Crystal was crucial for conviction, both hosts and DA acknowledge its moral difficulty.
• Lingering Grief: The episode closes on a somber note, reflecting on the trauma left for Kelsey’s family—especially her daughter—by such senseless violence.

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“Giving her a deal is a lot better than taking the chance that Patrick goes free.”
– Mike Ferguson (55:36)

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Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 496 of the True crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm good, man. I'm hopping and bopping and flopping like this demon dog. Demon frog, not dog frog that you laid on my desk over here.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, the first two I was okay with the flopping, not so much that I can. I can do without.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe it's hopping and what else do frogs do?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. But there should be no flopping in the studio. That. That's all I know. Let's go ahead and do our Patreon shout outs. We had Sarah Jane Morrison.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Sarah Jane?

[Mike Ferguson]

LB online.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, if you're going to be something, be online.

[Mike Ferguson]

Jessica Baca.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on?

[Mike Ferguson]

Jessica Kelly Labeds Labads Laurel.

[Mike Gibson]

H. Hey, Laurel.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Katie brew d. Katie. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Brittany

[Mike Gibson]

monthlvan month of on, which is just

[Mike Ferguson]

very fun to say it is fun. So we appreciate all the support that we get.

[Mike Gibson]

Love it.

[Mike Ferguson]

We have an episode out right now on true crime all time unsolved, where we're talking about Danielle Imbo and Richard Petrone. The two left a bar together in Philadelphia, and they just disappeared. But there's a lot to this case. It's been over 20 years, but there's a lot about their movement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

And what might have happened to them and Richard's truck. So it's definitely a good episode. And then on our tcat episode for Thursday, we're talking about Kamiyah Mobley, who was abducted from the hospital just hours after she was born. And then 18 years later, she was found alive and well, having been raised by the woman who kidnapped her.

[Mike Gibson]

A lot of emotions in that one.

[Mike Ferguson]

There is. And it's such a strange story. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Kelsey Barreth. Kelsey Barreth was murdered by her fiance, Patrick Frazee, after he unsuccessfully tried convincing his lover to do it for him three times.

[Mike Gibson]

Three times. Not once, not twice, but three.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she would ultimately be the one to help. Authorities kind of put together this narrative as to what happened to Kelsey. And I'm sure we'll talk about it at some point in the episode, but, you know, I just. I never can understand how you go to someone and say, would you murder someone for me or would you help me murder someone? I just don't even understand how that conversation starts. Goes down. Any of it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I think you'd have to be one pretty confident and comfortable with that person that you're talking about it with. And I think you really need to have, like, a backup real quick, like, oh, no, I was joking. Did you think I was serious? No, I was joking. I would never do something like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because it really sounds like maybe you've done that before because you came up with that real quick. Kelsey Barreth was born on September 15, 1989. She grew up on her family farm in Moses Lake, Washington. After graduating high school, Kelsey enrolled in a flight instructor program at her local community college. In 2016, she met Patrick Frazee on a dating website. Patrick was a rancher who lived over a thousand miles away in Florissant, Colorado. He trained cattle, dogs, shoot horses, and groomed donkeys. Patrick was said to be laid back, quiet, and dedicated to his work.

[Mike Gibson]

You used to do things with donkeys.

[Mike Ferguson]

I didn't know that donkeys needed to be groomed all that much.

[Mike Gibson]

Gotta keep them clean, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I guess so.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, a thousand miles, that's a long distance relationship.

[Mike Ferguson]

That. That is. Kelsey told a friend that she liked the fact that Patrick was a cowboy. Hey, some girls like cowboys, you know,

[Mike Gibson]

Rex is a cowboy. He's got his chaps, he's got his Stetson hat, you know, and he's well liked and he's.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, especially by a certain demographic. Kelsey moved to Colorado to be closer to Patrick. She lived in a town home in Woodland park just 20 minutes from the ranch, and got a job as a flight instructor. According to Kelsey's friend Ashley Cogburn, Patrick never came to visit Kelsey, but on her days off, she would spend time with him on the ranch. About two years after they started dating, Kelsey became pregnant with their daughter Kaylee, who was born in October 2017. Kelsey was described as a doting mother. Kelsey and Patrick got engaged, but didn't immediately set wedding plans. They raised Kaylee together, but Kelsey continued living in her town home and Patrick stayed on the ranch.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, it's kind of hard to leave the ranch when you got to take care of all those animals and things like that.

[Mike Ferguson]

There is quite a bit to do on a working ranch.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Something I learned by watching the ranch.

[Listener Laura]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

On Netflix.

[Mike Gibson]

Wasn't going to be something that you actually did.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, no.

[Mike Gibson]

You cannot get up early enough to do what needs to be done on the ranch.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I would do it before I went to bed.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

If we're talking about like milk and the cows or whatever. Kelsey's friends noted that she was struggling to balance taking care of the baby, her job, and her long commute. Her relationship with Patrick seemed strange.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, it's just always going to be a struggle when you're taking care of the baby pretty much yourself. That's a lot.

[Listener Laura]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, it's hard enough when, you know, mom and dad are under the same roof with a new baby. That's. That's a struggle. But Buzz. But if you're doing it on your own and he's only coming in every now and then, I could see how that relationship could get strained pretty quickly. Ashley Cogburn told 48 Hours that it appeared to her that Patrick was emotionally abusive. And it seemed like he was just knocking her spirit down. Kelsey never said Patrick was physically abusive. She once mentioned to Ashley That Patrick had an ex who still wanted to be with him, but she didn't seem worried about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you know, on the mentally abusive versus physically abusive, there's been several people that have told us that the mental abuse is worse than the physical abuse. They're both bad, but that mental abuse can really do some major damage.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, I, I get it. Neither one is. Is good and. And it shouldn't happen. Kelsey was last seen alive shopping at a Safeway grocery store in Woodland park with her daughter at 12:27pm on November 22, 2018, which was Thanksgiving Day. The Safeway security video was the last time Kelsey was seen in public. She grabbed a shopping cart, put her daughter into it, and walked further into the store. She bought ingredients for a sweet potato casserole. I love a good sweet potato casserole.

[Mike Gibson]

I make a killer sweet potato casserole.

[Mike Ferguson]

But yet you've never brought me any. And I buy you dinner every single week.

[Mike Gibson]

I have to bring you one. What I'm known for around the holidays.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know if I'd put that on my business card. Earlier in the day, Kelsey spoke to her mom about Thanksgiving. She later texted Patrick, I bought some sweet potatoes in case you wanted. Sweet potato casserole. Kelsey's mother, Cheryl, became worried when she couldn't get in contact with her for several days and reported her missing on December 2, 2018. That's quite a bit of time that's gone by. Right? She is last seen on 22 November. Cheryl, her mother, reports her missing on December 2. Now I get it. They are probably a long ways from each other, distance wise, and maybe not every mom and daughter talks on the phone every day.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but that is a. A good amount of time. It is days. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

When the police spoke to Patrick, he claimed that Kelsey broke up with him the day before Thanksgiving because they just weren't meshing anymore. They agreed to split custody of Kaylee. 50. 50. They met on Thanksgiving Day to exchange their daughter. He returned some of Kelsey's belongings, including a purse, keys to the car, keys to the townhome, and a gun Kelsey owned. Patrick had once taken the gun from Kelsey for her own protection. He said she struggled with depression, suggesting she might be suicidal. He said he then took Kaylee to his ranch for Thanksgiving without Kelsey. They had been communicating for several days after Thanksgiving via texts and calls. And you know, some of these things are interesting, right, because some of this can be disproved if you're not being truthful.

[Listener Laura]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

When you talk about Texting, having phone calls with somebody. Well, if you didn't, after a certain date, the police are going to be able to figure that out.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly. They're going to be able to pull that information up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Police searched Kelsey's townhome but found no signs of foul play. Her mother, Cheryl, and her son went to the house to take a look around. They saw that Kelsey's bathroom mat was missing, and her fridge had streaks, as if it had just been wiped down.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that's observant.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. I don't know that it's something I would notice. Maybe the. The bath mat, Maybe not even that. I certainly wouldn't notice whether or not the fridge has been wiped down.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because I know for sure I wouldn't have been the one to wipe it down. I just don't notice little things like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think you're spot on in saying that's pretty observant for them to notice it. But Cheryl's son also noticed blood on the base of the toilet. So Cheryl alerted police, who returned to the house and. And used chemicals to find trace amounts of blood throughout the bathroom. And DNA testing confirmed it was Kelsey's blood.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's got to be somewhat alarming, right? If you have blood around the toilet, they come back, they confirm it's Kelsey's blood. You knew there was a bath mat there at one point that appears to be missing. So now your brain is in overdrive, Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but how much can you make of it? And for me, I guess it boils down to what are you considering trace amounts of blood because, you know, she lived there.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

So is it unusual to find a trace amount of blood in someone's bathroom? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. That's where people shave, cut themselves shaving. You step out of the. The bathtub, it drips down near the toilet. You don't see it. You don't hit it when you're cleaning. But I think investigators suspected Kelsey had been harmed. They just needed more evidence. They started with reviewing her phone records. Early on, police thought Kelsey might have left town, but they questioned this when they saw that she bought ingredients to cook on Thanksgiving. They also questioned why she would offer to make food for Patrick if she broke up with him the day before.

[Mike Gibson]

Kelsey text Patrick that day saying she had sweet potatoes and was going to make him some sweet potato casserole.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is weird if you broke up the day before.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Why would you want to cook for somebody if he broke up?

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's what I was talking about earlier. Right. Be careful what you tell police, because you can really paint yourself into a corner. Cheryl Barreth also told investigators that Kelsey sounded normal and happy during their phone call and Thanksgiving, and she didn't mention breaking up with Patrick. Cheryl also insisted Kelsey would not leave her daughter behind.

[Mike Gibson]

I think those are two good points, especially that last one.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And you would think, right? Daughter calls mom or talks to mom on the phone, she's probably going to mention the breakup.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And like we talk about in a lot of cases, most moms are not going to just up and leave their daughter behind.

[Mike Gibson]

But, you know, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking when a couple like them break up with a child, it's going to be big news. Like, she's going to, like, really talk to her mom about it. Like, we decided to break up. We're going to figure out what to do with the little one now and how that's going to work out, and it's just not going to be something you're not going to mention.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. This isn't someone you've been dating for three weeks.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Images from a neighbor's security camera showed Patrick and Kelsey at her front door with a baby carrier around 1:30pm on Thanksgiving. When Kelsey returned from the grocery store at around 3:30pm Patrick was captured at the door alone. In total, the neighbor's camera captured Patrick 11 times at the townhome. Investigators weren't really sure whether he was leaving or entering at different points. Patrick told the police he took Kaylee to the ranch for Thanksgiving, and Kelsey wasn't with them. However, her phone was. Phone records showed that Kelsey and Patrick's phones traveled together on Thanksgiving Day. Investigators came to believe that Patrick faked 19 calls over Thanksgiving weekend and was sending texts between himself and Kelsey, such as Kelsey saying, I'm going running. I'll call you guys when I get home. Patrick saying, okay, be safe. Two days after Thanksgiving, there was this conversation. Patrick said, are you awake, Kelsey? Sorry, I didn't hear my phone. Going to jump in the shower. I'll call you guys when I get out. Patrick said, okay. To keep up his ruse that Kelsey was the one who broke up with him, Patrick sent the following message. If this is truly what you want, I'll respect your wishes and give you space. Three days after Thanksgiving, phone records showed that while Patrick's phone stayed near his ranch, Kelsey's phone moved out of Colorado. She sent a text to her supervisor saying, I won't be at work. Then her Phone texted Patrick, do you even love me this time? Kelsey's phone pinged off a tower 800 miles away near Gooding, Idaho. Police announced that Kelsey's phone pinged in Idaho on December 11th and that she had been sending text messages after she went missing. So, I mean, they're dealing with a lot of different variables here. The police are. We've got the blood. We've also got the this phone that makes it seem, at least on the surface, as though she's still alive after the. The last known sighting of her. But then also, if it is her, why is she 800 miles away in Gooding, Idaho?

[Mike Gibson]

Is this where she's running off to?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think police were considering all possibilities at that point, even though they were pretty suspicious of Patrick. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Authorities also said Patrick's home had not been searched and he was being cooperative. Woodland park Police chief Miles DeYoung told reporters were treating Kelsey's disappearance as a missing persons case at the time. We have not identified anyone as a suspect and are asking the public for any information that might help us find her. A couple of days later, Patrick spoke out via his attorney about the speculation over his behavior. His attorney described him as Cooperative, saying Mr. Frazee's cooperation includes interviews with law enforcement, voluntarily releasing his phone to be searched by law enforcement, buckle swabs and

[Mike Gibson]

photographs so it doesn't Seem like he's trying to hide anything based on that? No.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, the attorney's pointing it out to make it seem like, hey, look, this. My client's doing everything that the police want him to do. Speculation was fueled by Patrick's absence at the recent news conference where authorities said he was invited but chose not to attend. According to the attorney, much has been said over the news and social media about Mr. Frazee's absence at the local news conference. Patrick was first notified of the press conference approximately an hour prior to its commencement. Had he been given more advance notice, he would have participated. Mr. Frazee hopes and prays for Ms. Barist's return. Mr. Frazee will continue to cooperate with law enforcement and continue to parent the child he shares with Ms. Barrett. So I see the issue there. It doesn't look good when you don't show up to this news conference.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it sounds like the news jumped on it. Social media jumped on it. Now, if he really was only given an hour's notice, okay, maybe you can't make it. But that also seems strange that if they wanted him to be there, they wouldn't tell him until an hour beforehand.

[Mike Gibson]

I think they would have communicated that much earlier.

[Mike Ferguson]

Behind the scenes, investigators were still digging into Patrick's phone records. They discovered that at the time of Kelsey's disappearance, he was in contact with Crystal Lee Kinney, a nurse from Idaho. Crystal came from a prominent rodeo family. She was considered rodeo royalty, and in 2008, she was crowned Queen of the Magic Valley Rodeo.

[Mike Gibson]

Magic Valley.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. How about that?

[Mike Gibson]

That's pretty popular now.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know much about rodeo. Rodeo is not a huge thing here where we live, but I know in a lot of states it's big. Real big.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I can get on top of a bowl.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, hold on.

[Mike Gibson]

Give it a ride.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right. Hey, I don't need to know what you can give a ride to or anything like that.

[Mike Gibson]

I just gotta have my chaps on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Crystal had been in an on again, off again relationship with Patrick since 2006. Crystal later testified that she met him at a county fair. She ended things before she married another man and had two children. They had some sporadic contact over the years, and Patrick allegedly tried to thwart her marriage. He got close to her as her marriage began to fall apart.

[Mike Gibson]

So he was a thwarter.

[Mike Ferguson]

He was a thwarter. And, you know, the on again, off again relationship. It's always a phrase that I get a kick out of. Yeah, I know. It does happen.

[Mike Gibson]

It does.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sometimes people just Hook up on a, you know, somewhat random basis. Other relationships, you know, they date for a while, they break up for a while, they date again for a while, they break up for a while.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if you're on and off again, probably more than a couple times, probably just good to be off and

[Mike Ferguson]

just never get back on, it's probably not going to work out long term. Yeah, would be my conclusion. But, you know, getting back to the thwarting, as you called it, he obviously continued to hold a torch for this girl. Because if you're trying to thwart the marriage, what's the logical reason for that? It's most likely because you want to be with that person. And it sounds like they did become closer as the marriage began to fall apart. So maybe it worked. Crystal later testified that while still married but contemplating divorce, she learned in March 2016 she was pregnant with Patrick's child. She thought he would be happy, but he allegedly urged her to get an abortion and allegedly said, I guess you're a baby killer. Or you're not. She went ahead with the procedure, but told him she had a miscarriage.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's an interesting statement to make.

[Mike Ferguson]

But Patrick met Kelsey just a couple of months prior to all of this happening. Authorities began to suspect that Crystal was impersonating Kelsey with her phone. When the FBI first contacted her, Crystal said she had no idea who Kelsey Barreth was, and she denied even knowing Patrick Frazee.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man, that's never good.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, okay, the. The total lie. Yeah, that's not good, because how hard is it going to be for the FBI to figure out that, yeah, you do know Patrick Frazee. She then changed her story. She was asked when the last time she spoke to Patrick was. She said she didn't know and would have to check. She then claimed it was the month prior. The problem was they already had all the records and they knew that she was lying about everything.

[Mike Gibson]

They're like, hey, Queen of the Magic Valley, we know what's going on. Don't try to fool us.

[Mike Ferguson]

Crystal claimed she didn't have a personal relationship with Patrick and had gone to Colorado to look at a few of his horses. But that was it. That's it, Gibbs.

[Mike Gibson]

That's all.

[Mike Ferguson]

We didn't have this on again, off again relationship. I didn't become pregnant with his baby. I barely know the guy.

[Mike Gibson]

I just want to see if he had a good horse, if that horse knew how to buck.

[Mike Ferguson]

The FBI received the tip that Crystal's best friend, Michelle Stein, had information. Crystal called and confided in her about a disturbing conversation with Patrick a month before Kelsey went missing. In this conversation, he asked her to, quote, take care of his baby mama. Michelle was shocked. Crystal told her, yeah, he asked me if I would kill the mother of his baby.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I really like you. I think we could be something together one day. But I need you to do me a favor. Can you take care of my baby mama?

[Mike Ferguson]

But just look at the way she's painted herself in a corner.

[Mike Gibson]

She has. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To the FBI, no less. Right. I don't know this guy. No relationship with this guy. I just went to look at a few of his horses to. Not only were we together, but he asked me to kill the. The mother of his. His baby. Apparently, Crystal was crying and upset as she told Michelle this. She asked Crystal why Patrick wanted to kill the mother of his child. Patrick reportedly told Crystal it was because Kelsey wanted to take him back to court to get custody of the baby, and he feared she would harm the baby. Here we go. Right. How many times do we talk about divorce custody that prompts someone to make the decision that their best course of action is to kill the other person. Yeah. Why am I shocked by it?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. At this point, there's no reason for you to be shocked.

[Mike Ferguson]

Michelle didn't call the police immediately after hearing Crystal's confession. She later told 48 Hours she didn't know Patrick or Kelsey's full name. So I wasn't supposed to call someone in Colorado and say, hey, there's some guy in Colorado that wants to kill some girl. I don't know their names, and I don't know where they live, but, you know, good luck finding them. I guess that's what people think I should have done, which I get.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it's. It's kind of hard to call the police and say, first of all, I heard this story about two people, but I don't know the people's names.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I guess you could say, who told you that story?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And have the police go talk to that person. Michelle said she pushed Crystal to call the police and trusted her to do the right thing. She told 48 Hours that she does have regrets about not calling authorities. Kelsey had been missing for almost a month before Michelle talked to the FBI. When the FBI contacted Crystal a second time, she was ready to talk. But first, she wanted the deal. She agreed to plead guilty to evidence tampering and faced a maximum of three years in prison. Hey, if you're going to spill the beans and you're going to roll on somebody Else. Yeah, get the deal first.

[Mike Gibson]

I guess that's what we always say, be the first one. Because if you're not first, you're last.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, I get it. She didn't really have anything to do with the murder itself, but, you know, if you got to spend three years in prison, that's no joke for sending a few texts and making some calls. I'm not excusing her behavior in any way because what she did was wrong. What I'm saying is three years in prison is not a laughing matter.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean, prison changes you.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's changed you quite a bit. Crystal's interview lasted four and a half hours. She provided the background of their relationship. By 2018, the relationship between Patrick and Crystal had intensified once again. Crystal, who was now divorced, came to Colorado multiple times to see Patrick. She claimed she was unaware he was engaged and had a child until 2018. And she was shocked when she found out. I mean, this guy is really quite the player as far as stringing two different women along. Or at the same time, I guess. Yeah, kind of having your cake and eating it too. She said that after she found out the truth, Patrick alleged that Kelsey was an abusive mother and he began trying to convince Crystal to kill her. He asked Crystal to kill Kelsey on three separate occasions. The first time, Patrick wanted her to poison Kelsey's favorite Starbucks drink and give it to her. As a nurse, Crystal had knowledge of medications. She suggested a combination of Ambien and Valium.

[Mike Gibson]

Nighty night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think a little more than 90 night, depending on how much of it. But here's the thing, right? She's not going to go along with killing Crystal. But to me, even telling Patrick what drugs you would use is. Is, you know, you're really crossing the line even there. I think.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think you crossed that line if you went ahead and give the method of doing it.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Then, In September of 2018, Crystal drove 12 hours from Idaho to Colorado and brought the coffee to Kelsey's home. Kelsey opened the door. Crystal told her she was new to the neighborhood and that someone told her Kelsey helped get her dogs out of trouble. Kelsey said she didn't do this. She accepted the coffee and went back into her house. But Crystal didn't go through with poisoning the drink. Patrick was angry when she told him. Okay, I am totally confused. Why in the world would you drive the 12 hours then to give somebody a coffee?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, don't. Don't. You know there's a thing called doordash?

[Mike Ferguson]

Just have somebody put it on the steps.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, that seems very strange.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, the only thing I can think of is that she must have chickened out after she got there, which I think is kind of an indictment in and of itself that you made the 12 hour trip with the intent.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

To poison, but you just didn't actually go through with it.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I'd want to know, did you have the Valium and the Ambien? Anya?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think we can see why she was so adamant about wanting the plea deal. You know, because maybe there were quite a few charges that she could have potentially gotten. So Patrick's angry. He came up with a new plan. He was going to leave a metal pipe outside his property that Crystal would pick up. She would wait for Kelsey inside her home and hit her on the back

[Mike Gibson]

of the head because that's a much better plan.

[Mike Ferguson]

So Patrick is the planner, and for some reason, Crystal is supposed to be the. The doer, the. The person who carries it out. Crystal drove to the house with the metal pipe, but backed out of the plan and returned to Idaho.

[Mike Gibson]

So, again, she almost went through with something.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, she's. Yeah, she's doing the beginning part. She just doesn't follow through. I mean, I have to think there's possibly some charge, Right. That could come out of some of that. A week later, Patrick called with yet another plan. He told Crystal to bring a baseball bat and wait outside Kelsey's home to attack her. Crystal did so, but got scared when she saw a police car drive by and didn't go through with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Here's another path as she goes down the third one. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, luckily, she doesn't follow through with. With any of them, but I think it does show you or tell you something that she took a step forward three different times in a plan to murder this woman.

[Mike Gibson]

And if the police didn't spook her off, this last one, would she have?

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe. We don't know. But Patrick was frustrated and decided to take matters into his own hands. Phone records showed that Patrick called Crystal in Idaho at 4:30pm on Thanksgiving. According to Crystal, he told her, you need to get out here now. You got a mess to clean up. Crystal came out two days later with cleaning supplies. She picked up Kelsey's keys at Patrick's ranch and then drove to Kelsey's home. There was blood all over the inside of the townhome, but Kelsey's body wasn't there.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm just thinking about Patrick calling her and saying, hey, you need to get here. You have a heck of a mess to clean up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. I don't know. It seems like he's really got a hold over her or something because she's willing to really do a lot for this guy. Almost murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And now she's in the process of cleaning up what she had to think was a murder. Crystal spent a few hours cleaning and threw out certain items she couldn't get clean. She put those items in trash bags and put them in her car. Patrick was at his ranch during the cleanup when she met him there. He described how he lured Kelsey to her death. He asked her to play a game where she was blindfolded and would have to guess the scent of different candles. He then beat her to death with a baseball bat while their daughter was in another room.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Man.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's horrific. Yeah. He put Kelsey's body inside A black plastic tote and brought it to the ranch. Crystal confessed that they burned the tote and other pieces of evidence at the ranch. She returned to Idaho with Kelsey's phone and texted both Patrick and Kelsey's employer to make it seem like she was still alive. Crystal also admitted to getting rid of the gun, throwing Kelsey's keys into a canyon, and destroying her phone.

[Mike Gibson]

And she was really involved.

[Mike Ferguson]

She was much more so than you would kind of think at the beginning. Right. I even said it. It sounded to me like, you know, she had made a few calls.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sent a few texts. But then you find out she was way more involved.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm sitting here thinking three years is not even enough.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Doesn't seem like much at all for the role she played. But that's the nature of a plea deal, right? If the authorities need her to testify against Patrick, and I'm sure they did, in order to ensure a conviction, well, he's the one who actually committed the murder. They definitely want him. So she's going to get a bit of a deal. But you can make the argument that she definitely deserved to spend much more time in prison than just a maximum of three years.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because let's face it, she wouldn't even do three years. Right. On that type of sin. The police took Crystal back to the crime scene. She described how the home was covered in blood when she arrived, and she found a tooth. She claimed she intentionally left blood behind at the fireplace for authorities to find. Okay. I think when somebody says, hey, you got a mess to clean up, you walk into a place and the whole place is covered in blood, you know, things are bad. And then when you find a tooth, you know, things are really bad.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Something really bad happened here.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know if she really did leave blood behind for the authorities to

[Mike Ferguson]

find, or that just came out later, and she seized on it and thought, well, it's a. It's a way to make myself look a little bit better. Yeah, like I'm leaving breadcrumbs, Right. To try to help the authorities. Patrick Frazee was arrested on December 21, 2018. He was charged with first degree murder. Patrick also faced three counts of solicitation to commit murder and another count of murder due to theories about how the murder may have taken place. Either Patrick killed Kelsey by himself, or he and someone else tried to rob her before she was killed. Woodland park police chief Miles DeYoung told reporters. As you can tell from the arrest, sadly, we do not believe Kelsey is still alive. Kelsey's daughter, Kaylee is in protective custody and will be reunited with Kelsey's family. So they're not taking any chances. Right. Not only are they charging him with murder, they're also charging him with three counts of solicitation for the three different times that he tried to get Crystal to murder kelsey.

[Mike Gibson]

Good.

[Mike Ferguson]

In January 2019, Kelsey's parents filed a wrongful death suit against Patrick, alleging that he killed Kelsey over a child custody dispute. On February 4, 2019, a felony tampering charge was filed against Crystal Kinney. On February 8th of that year, Crystal appeared in court in Colorado for an advisement hearing. She admitted she knew that Patrick committed homicide and pleaded guilty to tampering with evidence. She agreed to testify against Patrick at his trial. And, you know, that's got to be a part of the plea deal, right? The biggest part. First of all, be honest. Tell us everything you know. But secondly, and more importantly, you're going to have to testify against Patrick.

[Mike Gibson]

Going to be key.

[Mike Ferguson]

Patrick Frazee's murder trial started on October 28, 2019, but prosecutors had a pretty difficult case ahead of them. They didn't have a body, they didn't have a murder weapon, and they really didn't have a definite motive. I mean, it was believed, right, that Patrick's motive was getting custody of his daughter. But how do you prove that? How do you tell that for sure?

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense argued there was no evidence to show Patrick was involved in the murder, and Crystal Kinney was an unreliable witness because she had previously lied to law enforcement. And let's face it, her credibility is not great. I think, first of all, she did lie numerous times, and then secondly, she got a sweetheart deal, I think. So, you know, do you have to take that into account as to how truthful she is on the stand? The jury heard that Kelsey, Patrick, and Kaylee were captured by a neighbor's camera entering kelsey's home around 1:30pm on Nov. 22. The surveillance camera captured 11 images of Patrick that day. Three hours later, Patrick was captured leaving without his daughter, and Kelsey never came out of the house. Okay. I don't know that it's definitive, but it definitely doesn't make him look good.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not helping.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, you're going to need more than that. But that's a building block. Patrick's friend, Joseph Moore, testified that several months before Kelsey went missing, Patrick. Patrick said the phrase nobody, no crime. Moore told him, patrick, get that out of your head.

[Mike Gibson]

It's an interesting phrase to say.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is even more interesting when Kelsey later goes missing and her body Is not found. About a month after Kelsey went missing, Patrick expressed shock over the national media coverage her case was getting. According to Moore. He's like, man, if I had known it was going to blow up this big, I never would have. And then he stopped. He did not finish that sentence. Moore said he never asked Patrick if he killed Kelsey. And I feel like that's a question I would have to ask.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Got to be honest with you.

[Mike Gibson]

I would want to know. You asked me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I would ask you for sure. If you were saying all of these really suspicious, red flag type of things, I would have to ask the question.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Patrick's brother Sean testified that he showed up two hours after the family ate Thanksgiving dinner. But it was really Crystal Kenney. Right. Who was the prosecution star witness. She described Patrick's multiple plans to kill Kelsey. She agreed to participate because he alleged that Kelsey was abusing his child. She said, as quoted by people, he went from being someone who I loved and cared for and one of my best friends, and he said his little girl was being abused. I know it was wrong, but I didn't know what to do, and I didn't make the right decisions. That is the understatement of the century.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks for sharing that with us.

[Mike Ferguson]

I did not make the right decisions. That's when you. You order from the wrong restaurant on Doordash, Right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not when you decide to participate in a murder.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Crystal testified that Patrick called her on November 4, 2018, to say he was going to act on his own. Then he called her on the 22nd, telling her that she needed to come clean up the mess. I'd be like, what? Why do I have to come clean this up?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Why do I have to make that long drive to do this? For a message you made.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is like John Travolta and Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah, the cleaner.

[Mike Ferguson]

When they're, you know, Jackson is in the backseat, he's like, why am I the one cleaning all this up? When you shot him, you get back here and clean this up.

[Mike Gibson]

Good. Point was that. Was that guy named the Wolf?

[Mike Ferguson]

The wolf, yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or the. As you would like to say, the wolf. But you actually, I think, said it pretty correctly at that time.

[Mike Gibson]

You did.

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[Mike Ferguson]

After cleaning, Patrick asked her, did you get it done? She replied, I did the best I could do. And I don't know if anyone listening has ever cleaned up a home full of blood. I'm hoping not, because that means you were either involved in something nefarious or a very tragic accident happened and you were, you know, forced to clean it up afterwards. But we know from all the cases that we've done, yeah, you can clean blood up, but it is hard to get everything.

[Mike Gibson]

I've had, like, major nosebleeds and I've had. Seems like certain people come over my place, they get nosebleeds. So that's why their blood's there if it's ever questioned.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep. You know, way to walk that back.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. But it's hard to get it all up, you know, because it likes to smear and this.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, what kind of nosebleeds are you having? Like, the whole floor is covered.

[Mike Gibson]

It's just. Yeah, it's a gusher.

[Mike Ferguson]

Patrick said, you better hope you did because our lives depend on it. Crystal said she drove from Idaho to Colorado to clean up because she feared for her life. Patrick told her how he killed Kelsey and that his daughter was in the home during the murder. He said Kelsey's last words were, please stop. That's heartbreaking.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

On so many different levels. To think about, you know, this poor woman being blindfolded to think that she's going to be smelling some candles and then being beat to death with a baseball bat while their daughter is in the next room.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, how much did you have to hate this woman to do that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Crystal testified that she was present when Patrick started the fire. He put the black tote, which he said contained the body and the bat, into a dry water trough and lit it on fire. They also burned items such as a stuffed animal, building blocks, and a Bible. The prosecution backed Crystal's testimony with surveillance videos and photos. For example, Patrick was captured by a drive thru ATM camera with a black plastic tote in the bed of his truck. On Thanksgiving on November 24, Patrick was captured at a gas station filling up a gas can, which prosecutors said was used to burn Kelsey's body. Prosecutors also played the video of Crystal inside Kelsey's home, showing how she cleaned up the crime scene. They noted that investigators pulled up floorboards and found more blood. And that's kind of what I was, you know, getting at. Right. You can look at something and say, oh, yeah, I got it clean. Yeah, but where does that blood seep to? To areas that you can't see.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's going to be unlikely you're ever going to get it all cleaned up the right way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Additionally, a cadaver dog alerted to Patrick's hay barn on his ranch, where Crystal said he hid the body inside the tote. Experts testified that a human female tooth fragment was recovered from Patrick's ranch near the burn site. But there wasn't enough DNA to identify it. So you got a couple of things there. Right. The dog's alerting. Okay. It's not definitive, but again, like we keep saying, doesn't make him look good. I think when. When you find a verifiable part of a human female tooth. All right, does it prove that it was her? No, but then you have to ask the question, well, then, if not her, whose is it? And why is there a fragment of a human female tooth on your ranch

[Mike Gibson]

by this burn pile?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Prosecutors then presented a surprise witness, an inmate at the jail where Patrick was being held. The inmate asked not to be named for safety reasons. He said he was housed next to Patrick for several weeks. According to cbs, the inmate called the prosecutor's office during the trial. He watched a 48 Hours episode on Kelsey's murder and claimed Patrick gave him a hit list. He wanted the inmate to use his gang connections to have certain witnesses kill. Some of the names were written on paper towels he was told to flush. In total, Gibbs, there were 16 notes. One of those names was Crystal Kinney. Patrick provided graphic descriptions of what he wanted to happen to her, such as putting a bullet in her head. Crystal's best friend, Michelle Stein, and Kelsey's mom, Cheryl Barreth, were also on the hit list. Okay, yeah, so definitely a surprise witness. Now, we talk a lot about, you know, inmates. Can they make stuff up? Yeah, they. They can and have. It's been proven. I think this information if true, though. It really says a lot because why does Patrick need someone to take all these people out if he didn't murder Kelsey?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, it's a good point.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense called no witnesses and Patrick chose not to testify. And it's an interesting tactic. I think a lot of times the defense does that when they just believe that, you know, the state has not proven their case. Yeah, not, not the having their client testify, but the calling no witnesses also, I don't know who you're going to call that that has any knowledge about what happened. I don't think there was anybody to provide an alibi that would be one type of witness. But other than that, I don't know who you're calling.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think they're kind of out of luck on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think at that point, you just have to hope as the defense that although there's been a lot of evidence, it's not seen as beyond a reasonable doubt. Right. That their client committed the murder. On November 18, 2019, Patrick Frazee was found guilty of first degree murder. He was sentenced to life without parole plus 156 years.

[Mike Gibson]

These are going zero places outside of the prison. Yeah, for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

On January 28, 2020, Crystal Kinney was sentenced to three years in prison and a year of parole. She said at her sentencing hearing, I know saying I'm sorry is not good enough. I don't even know what the right word would be to describe the remorse that I feel. I'm sorry Kaylee will not have her biological mother. And I'm sorry to everyone who's been affected by this horrible tragedy. I am sorry that I could not save Kelsey. DA Dan May told reporters per cbs, we did a deal with the devil. There's no if, ands or buts about that, and I'm not proud of that. But there's no question that Kelsey wouldn't have had the sure justice today without making that deal with the devil. And I think a lot of prosecutors look at those deals like that. Yeah, they're making a deal with the devil.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it has to happen. We don't like it, but they had the end game that they had here. They had to do it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Giving her a deal is a lot better than taking the chance that Patrick goes free.

[Listener Laura]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In March 2020, Crystal requested to move to a halfway house. And but that request was denied in June of 2020. In March 2021, an appeals court ruled that Crystal's three year sentence was unconstitutional because the judge exceeded the maximum sentencing guidelines for her specific charge. According to the decision, the district court had erroneously sentenced Kenny outside the presumptive maximum term because aggravated circumstances could not be applied. The maximum presumptive sentence was 18 months. And at the time of her plea agreement, Crystal acknowledged that the potential sentence would be in the range of one year to 18 months. So she was resentenced to 18 months in prison and was released on March 23, 2021.

[Mike Gibson]

There you go, man. Didn't have to put that much time in after all.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I think if you're the prosecution, you're even more upset. Right. You already think you did a deal with the devil, and now that deal is even less than what it was. It's half.

[Mike Gibson]

She'll have to live with what she did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's true. Patrick Frazee is still incarcerated in Colorado. In February 2025, the Colorado Supreme Court upheld Patrick's conviction. As of 2026, Kelsey Barris remains and the murder weapon have never been found.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, we kind of know why the remains haven't been found.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. It wouldn't surprise me if. If neither are ever found or, you know, especially her remains, most likely they were burned up in that trough. So, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it's not an unheard of motive. Unfortunately, we cover a lot of cases where the motive is either divorce related, custody related. I think what is so strange to me about this one is the attempts by Patrick to try to get his on again, off again relationship slash girlfriend to try to murder Kelsey.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then even stranger still is the fact that she kind of went part way with the plan three different times.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Clearly she was in love.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, she claimed she was fearful of him. And could you be fearful of someone who's 800 miles away? Yeah. Yeah, you could be. I don't know if I'm buying that one as much as I sometimes do.

[Mike Gibson]

I think she really wanted to have a life with him, and she thought she was willing to do anything to make that happen.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards that as well. But let's face it, the guy was capable of it. Yeah, no doubt about that. Because he ultimately killed Kelsey.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Did you feel for her family? You feel for her daughter?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah. Yep. As her daughter gets older and hears

[Mike Ferguson]

about this, to find out that or to really, you know, for it to sink in that your dad killed your mom. I don't know what that does to a person's psyche. It can't be good, though, right?

[Mike Gibson]

It's going to be a lot of therapy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But that's it for our episode on Kelsey Barreth, we got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Listener Laura]

Hi, guys. This is Laura from Nebraska. You guys are just fantastic and such a big part of my day. I got all the way through tcat, and I'm working my way through unsolved. Just finished the West Memphis three. And you guys did such a fantastic job on that. It was amazing. I'm kind of on the giddy side because I love you both because, you know, you can't be one without can't be podcast without the both of you. But I can't obviously talk very well or come up with my words. Just like Gibby. We're both lefties. But, yeah, I just can never come up with my words. But I've been wanting to call for a while and thank you guys for all you do. Keep your own ten ticking. Bye.

[Mike Ferguson]

I thought that voicemail was very coherent.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't understand what she mean. I mean, we're both are lefties. I get that. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

When she says I can't come up with my words very well, does that mean.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't talk no good.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't talk no good. No. She's awesome. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now I get it. A lot of people, you know, they can relate to you. You're the everyman with every person. You're just so relatable.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm universal.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're like a universal remote. Just. Just work on everything.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know where that was going,

[Mike Gibson]

but I don't either.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sometimes I can't come up with my words. So, so good.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, clearly.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime all the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Gibson]

Sam.